The spiritual texts are abound with extraordinary women. This week Hatoon Alfassi, Amany Lubis, Ani Choying Drolma and Juliette Neuberger reinforce the message from Islam, Judaism and Buddhism. The women they tell the stories of were extraordinary leaders, in many cases with hidden and unrecognised leadership skills. They had compassion and they never gave up to despair. They knew they were equal to men and were often sad about the fragility of men.

The approach to leadership that resonates with women must shout their stories and insights, loud and clear. They are an inspiration to us all.

Julia Middleton 0:01

Julia 1:51

Okay, so when I think about women in the Hebrew Bible who have influenced me, I mean, there are any number, and people have sort of slightly written them out of history. So it makes me quite irritated. But I'm going to take two examples. One is Sarah, wife of Abraham, who couldn't have children. This is kind of a regular theme of women being infertile, you get that throughout the Hebrew Bible anyway, she can't have children, she can't have children, she can't have children, and eventually three messengers or angels. It's the same word in Hebrew, and in Greek indeed, come along and say to Abraham, Sarah is going to have a child and Sara's by this time, according to the Hebrew Bible in her 90s, so it seems a little unlikely. Anyway, she does produce a child, the child is Isaac, who, in fact, I think, is a bit of a wimp, but anyway, in the process as a whole lot of text, and Abraham has a concubine, who is Sarah's maiden servant, Hagar, who already has a child Ishmael. And Ishmael apparently started teasing Isaac, we're not sure exactly what the story is. But certainly, Sarah gets very protective of her little boy. This is a kind of classic mother's story. And eventually, she says to Abraham, you've got to throw Hagar, and that Ishmael out. This is, I can't have this, and Abraham scends, Hagar, the maid servant, and Ishmael a son, who's his son, into the wilderness only with a bottle of water. Abraham is not happy. He really isn't happy. And he says, well, I really don't want to do this. I really I feel terrible about this. And then the story goes in the rabbinic commentary on the text. The text says all that Sara tells you hearken to her voice. And the commentary says, This teaches us that Sarah was superior to Abraham in prophecy. And this gives me great choice. So male commentators commenting on this text, probably in I don't know, could be fourth, fifth, sixth century, what we would call CE, you would call AD, we're already saying, There's something really interesting here. And it's telling us that Sarah was a very significant prophet, and she knew what was going to happen and why this was important. And for me, that's an amazing thing to find within the Hebrew Bible, A, listen to her voice, she matters and B, and really importantly, the rabbinic commentary saying she's superior to him in prophecy. So when I think about women's leadership in the Hebrew Bible, Sarah, the first of the matriarchs is a pretty good example. And I don't like everything she did, let me be very clear, that's not the point. But the point is that she is a leader and she's seen as a leader, and she's regarded as superior to Abraham in prophecy by later male commentators. So she's my first example. My second example is very different. And she's Ruth in the book of Ruth, which is a late book of the Hebrew Bible. And almost like a joke text, so it claims to be a historical book. But from the names you can tell that some of this is a very deliberate invented story for a purpose. But Ruth is a Moabite woman. She gets married to a guy who promptly dies of plague. He's got a brother, the Israelites had gone to Moab because a family and his brother are also married number by a woman. And he also dies of plague. And interestingly, their names are Machlon and Ikillian, which means illness and disease. So you know, I think we know that this is a sort of a crafted story. Anyway, they have a mother in law Naomi who becomes really quite a character. And she decides to go back to the homeland, she goes back goes back to the land of Israel. And her two daughters in law say, oh, we'll come to Ruth and Orpah. And she says, no, no, no, my daughters do not come with me. I have no more. You know, I've not got any more boys hidden in my womb. I'm not going to give birth to more boys for you to marry. You stay back here in Moab. I'm going home. And oppa one of the wives, she stays, but Ruth goes with Naomi. Now, Ruth is it's a very interesting, interesting story. And we're not entirely sure how this plays out. But Ruth says, entreat me not to leave you, which is a very famous line, wherever you go, I will go and eventually and there will I be buried. So she says, I'm throwing my locked in with you. And she then goes with Naomi. And then she cleans in the field of our kinsmen Moabs and she anyway she marries a Moab and she becomes the ancestors of King David. Okay, so now the reason I think that's interesting is that she showed absolute determination, nothing was going to stop her. She knew in her heart what was right. And she went for it. And so I really love that story. I mean, a lots of things about it, you might criticise, again, but these are stories, and they're endless, the oral tales, and they've got lots of added attractions. But the principle, I know what's right, I'm going with you, my mother in law, I don't want to leave you alone, I actually want to make sure that you're okay back in the home country. I'm coming to, we are now family I'm sticking with you. My lot is thrown in with the with the people, if you like into which I'm married. And I really love that. And I love the determination. And her absolute sense of this is right. So she's quite an inspiration. I probably think of her as a more regular inspiration than I do of Sarah, but I mean, Ruth, I think is a an extraordinary woman of saying I'm throwing my lot in with you. And I think that that's fantastic.

Julia Middleton 8:04

Your logic is make the brave decision. And just go for it. Don't look back, just get on with it.

Julia 8:15

I mean, sometimes you have to look back. But I think the thing about it is is it makes a brave decision, do the consideration first, but make the brave decision and get on with it. An eight out of 10 is okay as a score for making decisions. If you get eight right and two wrong, that's not too bad.

Julia Middleton 8:36

And why do women struggle with the two?

Julia 8:41

Lack of confidence, which is why that rabbinic comment. This teaches us that Sarah was superior to Abraham and prophecy is so important. Because it's a really affirming comment about a woman leader, written by men.

Julia Middleton 8:59

As Julia says, It's not the it's not the decision that Sarah made to send Haga into the desert. It's it's the quality of her position. But suddenly, Haga was sent into the desert and became a woman Haja a woman who totally inspires Haton and I'm not exactly surprised.

Haton 9:29

According to the Islamic story, millennia ago. Abraham or Abraham took Haha and her child Ishmail from Palestine to a barren place where they are valley later to be called Mecca. After Ibrahim left her alone with her son in the valley with a little water and bread. She went on searching for signs of life and habitation. She didn't stand still. This is very important part of the story, that she did not just sit there and wait for death. She ran and climbed the mountains of what is called today, the Safa and Marwah until the miracle open beneath the her child's feet. An angel appeared to reassure her and gave her the miracle of a bursting well called Zamzam, which flows until today. A hard worker, she built a dam and a farm and a house and a life. Until a migrant tribe from southern Arabia found her place and asked her permission to let them drink from her well, and then asked to settle down next to her. However, knowing her power and vulnerability, as well, realise the power of her will, and the Arab traditions of respecting women and the wells ownership, spotting the strategic advantage of a well in the desert, as well as the importance of having a community that would strengthen her and her son, she made the home the large Arabian tribes from the south, to submit to her conditions of settling down without challenging the ownership of the wealth, which belongs only to her. These conditions were honoured, and the wealth stayed in the possession of her descendants, until the time of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. She did not sit still, even though she was sure that God is by her side, and she had this strong faith that she will not be, he will not abandon them. But she did not just say reluctant waiting for, for a table of food coming from, from the sky. But she tried to work and by herself, to march and to just to go around and find find the solution by herself. To live in that situation without breaking down is very remarkable. Mecca lies in the middle of nowhere, it's a barren place before having this well, and it's the heat there is unbearable. It's when when rain comes down, which is very rare, it's flooded. So it's not a very, it's not a fertile, comforting zone.

She was smart, wasn't she?

She was of course. First of all, I mean, to live to survive in such an environment needs needs a lot of courage and intelligence.

And how has her leadership influenced you?

Oh she inspires me and in keep on going on. Try not to concentrate on the on the past or on what would bring me down. I used her her method in keep on working and working and working without looking back. Not looking back at any obstacles, or even social obstacles that would prevent me from reaching my dream. I don't put a limit to my dream. And I think this is what she did. She would go on building her life step by step and this is what I prefer to follow. I don't put before me big dreams. I prefer to reach the small dreams ahead of me and one will lead to another, so that it doesn't get me or it doesn't make me feel that I am incapable of doing of reaching the big dreams. But she gives me she inspired me with her courage. I I hope that I could have some of her courage and her resilience. For me it's it's very delicate situation. When I keep on thinking and reflecting on her story. I just I think that there are always, there's always the small lamp and or the small bug that comes up from her story that would brighten my sad times. But I want to say something, I find a note about Haja I would say that Haja in Mecca, she became an independent being. She became a free woman, head of her household and leader of her own town, a matriarch of a people and of faith. She was the founder of the cradle of Islam. The founder of Meccas this is what Haja is for me is.

If Haton is inspired by Haja, Amani is hugely of course inspired by Hadija in the Islamic faith and and Amani of course, is in Indonesia, the biggest Muslim country in the world. So, here you are.

Hadija is the first wife of the Prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him. She is a very famous and rich trader. She was married before married to the prophet, but she was famous by her richness, and also she trade by herself. And after hearing about the, the Prophet Muhammad before he was Prophet, yeah, the young Muhammad, he is all he was also a trader, she gave her wealth to Mohammed, young Mohammed to trade, her wealth, this trading process considered as the successful. So this made also Hadija, to woo, to woo Mohammed young Mohammed to marry her. So this is, it's unusual, also a woman to propose to the men, but she was 40 years old and young Muhammad was 25. Then she's very smart. She has wit, so she right away, understand that her husband, the Prophet Muhammad has a special condition and she knows that he is the apostle of God. She made her home as a kitchen to everyone and she buys the food from outside Mecca, by her influence. At that time, the tribes in Mecca, the people of Mecca, make a boycott, to the family of Prophet and to all the Muslims, the companion of the Prophet boycotted the them. So they cannot buy everything. They cannot sell everything, they cannot live in Mecca, that's this hardness they face but during the time because of the influence of Hadija, and she can buy foodstuffs from outside Mecca. That time we see that the people are divided into slaves and autocrats or the nobles, and then the people also the poor divided the poor and the rich. So by the coming of Islam and the teaching of Islam at the beginning, they unite all of the people and remove all of the the levels this as the status of the people. So, the idea of emancipation, the idea of the sameness at the beginning of the spreading of Islam is very much supported by the wife of Rasul Allah, and she was rich and she has all of the privilege as a noble family show so she can help people with, in her good time. But afterwards, when she married the Prophet, she helped still help her help the people in their misery condition. Even she lost her wealth. Yes, she lost her wealth. But she is still helping. She freed many slaves, yeah, who become Muslim. And also, like I said, she made her home like kitchen, open kitchen to everyone. Hadija is very special, very strong woman. And very full hearted woman she has wit, she has a strong desire to, to fix her society to help her society. So this is not just a mother, or a pious woman, but she is also very, yeah, her leadership is obvious in all walks of life, her her role, and her dedication is very obvious.

And then on to Annie, who, who looks at the issue from Buddhist point of view, and to the feminine Buddha, Arya Tara, as you'll see, and he didn't exactly quite keep to the brief, but it's fascinating.

The name of my school is called Arya Tara. And Arya Tara is the feminine Buddhas, you know, whether that we have, we consider her the mother of all Buddha. And in the real story of her is that such that she is someone who has always made a vow to be reborn in the form of woman, always to liberate all beings, sentient beings. To be free from suffering in a very mythical story, we have enlightened being called the compassion, Buddha, compassionate Buddha. And he's been working so hard to liberate all sentient beings from the suffering and you really worked hard. And then, as he worked so hard, but yet, when he looks back to evaluate how much of success he has been able to achieve in his, his work of compassion, to liberate beings from suffering, then is always again, same condition back. So he felt so disturbed, like kind of sad, and he cried. So two tears roll down from his eyes. And then these two became the two Tara, because the Tara or the, you know, the company, the feminine divine being, we consider them as different female Buddha. So they took the form of to feminine, divine being, and promised to, to this compassion, Buddha, saying that, don't worry, we'll assist you, as long as we need to, in from fulfilling your desire to empty, eliminate all suffering of this samsara or the existence. So that's one of the story and then there are many other of these feminine divine beings who have been who has been born as the Princess, you know, in some countries, and then their practice of their meditation and their, you know, spiritual practices, enhance their compassionate qualities up to the strength where they, they, they really took up their vow to really be more active and effectively out there to really guide and support and help and, you know, protect all beings from suffering. And that inspires me a lot. But otherwise, usually in our kind of, our kind of various conservative society, people think that being born in the form of a man is supposed to be very superior and supposed to be very fortunate and they think that man suffers less. But I have a doubt on that. I find men suffers more than women.

Why?

Because you see, the need to control lots and lots of their emotions. You know, if you if you cry as a man in front of the society, they will say, Oh, such a weak man. If they're so if they're really kind to their wife, there is oh, he's a slave to his wife kind of. So then the way the men are brought up in our society in a is very unfortunate way. And then in the name of being brave and tough men is always to be rough and tough and not so kind and flexible, and very rigid, and so on. So I think that's very sad for men to be growing in such kind of non social norms. Where we women, actually, we are so comfortable to cry, or tear sheds, whenever we are touched, you know, emotionally touched. And that means like, it really helps us to release our stress. And these are very suffocating emotions occasionally. And so and we don't we, we don't mind to feel weak, vulnerable, and sensitive and soft. These are the qualities which I feel like we as women, we are very strong with these. So for men, it's very tough in the name of being strong, they become very weak, very fragile, they break, the harder they become, the more fragile they are. And I can sense that in them. And they know what I experienced in my life. In the monastic communities, these men who are the, like greater the practitioner, the meditation practitioner, gradually, I see them becoming more and more feminine. You know, these monks, these great monks, the teachers, you will find them more gentle, more soft and more sensitive, and the tone of the voice starts to change more like motherly voice. So that's the transformation I feel like they are making as the sign of theirs their accomplishment in their meditational practices or their spiritual practice, however you say it. And I think that's the ultimate goal, I think to be kind and soft and gentle. So and those who are harsh and hard and trying to validate this masculine energy as being very rigid, is the most unfortunate way of, you know, validating them superiority.

Do you cry?

I do, you mean, do I cry? Oh, very frequently. At times, I feel bad about it. Like, why am I so easily? I mean, like, shed tear, tears in my eyes. And I think it's still, at this very age, I think I'm going through pre-menopausal symptoms of emotional occasionally where I don't like it. But then on the other hand, I think feel like it's good, it's healthy.

So if I found creating this episode, these two episodes fascinating is because they've taught me about leadership. The need to learn to say no, like the brave woman in the forest. And the need to keep on asking questions as Hadija did. Thank you, Mira for both of those extraordinary women. The ability to sit under your own tree, from Deborah. And never losing sight of the vision or wanting credit for it, wanting credit for it. Very, very interesting, Mary. So thank you, Terri, for both the insights into Mary and Deborah to women you admire. And then Haton, whose passion for Haja, never give away to despair. Just proceed, step by step. Thank you Haton, so much. Amani, Amani, bring everybody with you into your kitchen. You said so many things, but that's the one that's absolutely stuck with me. Bring people into your kitchen. One of the first really inclusive leaders was Hadija. Thank you, Amani and Julia, Sarah and Ruth. The tough Sarah, who was proclaimed an equal of men and Ruth, who made brave decisions and and then got on with them, as Julia says the Oh, and of course Aria Tara, Aria Tara absolutely delicious. A woman who, who embodies compassion and who, who is comfortable in tears, so important, and even has compassion for poor men who Annie feels needed because they can't cry. So as Annie slid away from the brief a little bit. I enjoyed it all immensely. Thank you so much, everybody. Next week, what are we doing next week? Well, do you remember, two weeks ago, we did an absolute dig deep into a group of 17 year old girls in Pakistan. Now we're going to go deep, and talk to some really powerful, interesting leaders in Botswana, and find out a little bit more lots that I certainly never knew. So anyhow, look forward to next week. Lots of love.

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