In the first bonus episode of this season on ‘Making Things Happen: Churches, Charities and Money’, Malcolm Webb shares his experiences of balancing faith and finance on a daily basis in his role as a church accountant.

Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:

• Malcolm introduces himself, explaining how he became a Christian and the steps that led him to become the accountant of a multi-site church serving Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire. [01:48]
• In response to a question from Bex, Malcolm describes some of the dynamics of being the accountant of a church other than the one that he attends himself. [07:01]
• As part of a discussion about tracking donations and the purposes for which they have been given, Bex reminds Malcolm of a time when the response of church members to a special appeal had been so generous that it caused the bank to be in touch to check that nothing untoward was taking place! [11:53]
• Responding to a question from Simon, Malcolm talks about the challenge of balancing his professional responsibility to operate ‘by sight’ with his personal conviction that he has been called to live ‘by faith’. [13:42]
• When asked for a top tip to help with the running of the finance function of a church, Malcolm recommends taking advantage of available technology (especially Excel), streamlining processes and encouraging donors to set up standing orders. [18:48]
• When it comes to training others to manage money well on behalf of a church or charity, Malcolm highlights the importance of developing understanding and an inquiring mind. [21:09]
• Having previously quoted Psalm 50 verse 10 (“for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills”), Malcolm identifies the Parable of the Bags of Gold (Matthew 25.14-30) as another biblical passage that has been influential in shaping his thoughts on money and what our attitude towards it should be. [23:39]
• When asked if he has a story of seeing God’s generosity at work, Malcolm talks about the capacity of the church to initiate social transformation, as illustrated by the cafe that has recently been set up with a clear vision that it will develop its own ‘ministry’ for the benefit of others. [25:27]
• Having been invited to do so by Bex, Malcolm prays for those who are feeling called by God to initiate or take forward a church-related project or idea that requires financial expertise or resources. [27:22]
• Simon talks about the hidden, but vital, role of the church accountant; Malcolm responds by commenting that, in fact, the nature of financial communication these days (eg through Zettle transactions and detailed bank statements) means that he is very aware of what is going on in church life and often feels that he has been given a ‘front row seat’ to observe it. [29:10]
• A second Season 9 bonus episode will follow shortly, also featuring a guest with significant experience of dealing with faith and finance matters in the charity sector. [32:51]

Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.

This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.

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Simon

You are about to listen to 'Where Your Treasure Is...', the podcast where faith and finance meet. Please note that the views expressed are our own and in no way represent any form of financial advice.

And remember, investments can go down as well as up. Happy listening.

Bex

Hello and welcome, or welcome back to, 'Where Your Treasure Is...', the podcast that looks at all things faith and finance.

And in this season, we have been exploring how churches and charities can use money effectively and what that looks like from all sides of the equation. And so I'm very excited in this first bonus episode that we have a guest on and we have a guest who's previously been referenced by another guest.

Simon

You're just hyping this a little bit too much, Bex. I'm worried now that he won't be able to stand up to expectations, but you're right, Chuck Freeland in his bonus episode gave this guest a bit of a name drop. And what I'm excited about our guest speaker today is that he epitomises the topic of faith and finance. He's a man who works within the charity sector, he works within the church sector, and he definitely works within the finance sector. So without further ado, let us welcome to you, Malcolm Webb. Malcolm, welcome to the 'Where Your Treasure Is...' podcast.

Malcolm

Thank you very much for your welcome.

Bex

See, I have no doubt that Malcolm is going to deliver and indeed exceed the introduction we've just given him, which is why I felt confident in going so big!

Simon

You know him so well, but we don't as an audience. So, Malcolm, can you tell us briefly, apart from your name, who are you and what are you doing exactly?

Malcolm

Okay, who am I? Well, my name's Malcolm.

I am living in the northeast of Scotland and I have lived in various other countries in the course of my career, including England, but also including the Middle East and also Norway. So my career has really primarily been in the oil industry and that's what's taken me on that kind of journey.

I've arrived in Aberdeen four times and I've left three, but I'm here at the moment.

Simon

So we're not having you on as a guest to talk about the finances of the oil and gas industry. What is your role in terms of the faith and finance content of this podcast?

Malcolm

So, my current role is as the accountant for a multi-site church in Aberdeen and the surrounding shire. And my job really is to do all the accounting for that - so, recording all the income, recording all the expenses and, at the end of the month, making sure that the trustees see that the numbers balance.

Bex

Now, we are going to spend some time in this episode digging into how you got into that role and what that looks like in a bit more depth, but I am personally just quite nosy. And so, Malcolm, I would love to hear a little bit of your faith journey and how you came to know Jesus.

What did that look like for you?

Malcolm

Okay, love to tell you about that. So I grew up in a Christian home; my parents were Christians; they took me along to church from a very young age.

But at a very young age, I recognised that they were part of this family that I felt on the outside of. And I responded to an invitation to follow Jesus and be part of God's family, probably when I was about 7 or 8 years old.

So from a very, very young age, I've grown up through that church.

And having started with a very simple faith, as I've grown older, what I've found is that my Christian faith still stands up to the tests that life has put in it as I've gone through life. So that's what I'm excited about. And I still believe that the best is yet to come. We have such hope because of our faith in Jesus.

Simon

So, we're going to talk to you a bit about working within a church function, a charity function, but clearly that hasn't been your whole story. Is there a faith story that got you into the oil industry, that got you into Scotland?

Or is it just that you did that and then came out of it and then felt God leading you somewhere else? How did God play a part in your journey of your career?

Malcolm

Well, it's probably a girl story that maybe got me into the oil industry!

Simon

We do like honesty on this podcast, don't we, Bex?

Bex

Mmm. I'm intrigued already!

Malcolm

I graduated from university, but a girl that I was dating lived in Aberdeen, and I thought that if I got a job in Aberdeen, then it might prolong the chances of maintaining that relationship. So I believed the relationship was from God and therefore my journey went north, and I came up to Aberdeen.

Bex

And it just goes to show that all the best girls do live in Aberdeen! That's just fact!

Malcolm

Yes, that's absolutely true.

Simon

If you have comments about that, female listeners, please feel free to message in in the usual way.

So, you had a career in oil and gas, Malcolm. How long was that for? And how long have you not been doing that?

Malcolm

So, that career went on for about 10 years, and then I decided to leave oil and gas.

I also had a passion for residential Christian ministry, and I went into that for three or four years in terms of setting up a residential centre in the centre of Scotland. And then, after about three or four years of that, I rejoined the oil industry and rejoined actually the same company that I had left before.

They were quite happy to have me back and then I've done another 20 years with them and that was in Aberdeen and in various places around the world.

During COVID, I was made redundant from the oil industry and at that point I was sitting back not doing very much because there was not very much to be done. During COVID, a job came up with the Catalyst Vineyard Church in Aberdeen. I'm not a member of that church - I saw the job description and thought, yes, I could do that, but they want it to be a member of the church, and so I just let it pass me by.

And one of the trustees contacted me and said, "Well, if that member part of the job description wasn't there, would you be interested in having a chat with us?" So I said, "Well, more than happy to have a chat." And following that, I ended up accepting a part-time job with Catalyst Vineyard Church.

Bex

Now, we're going to dig into a little bit more about what that function actually looks like.

I've had the pleasure of being on staff team at the same time as you and so I know how diligent you are and how well you balance the practicalities of finance with faith.

But one thing I've always been really intrigued about is how it's felt for you being a really committed member to another fabulous church and doing the accounts for a different church. How does that relationship work? Does it feel easier because it's not the church that you are in, or what does that look like?

Malcolm

That's a very good question, and I guess I'm still learning the answers to it. So I guess first of all, we have completely the same objectives as churches - for the church I go to and the church I work at. So, I completely get the mission and I am on that same mission within the community that I'm a member of.

What I like about the Catalyst Vineyard Church, it also has a few extras in terms of the social transformation work, and I think what's being done there is quite remarkable in running debt management programmes, in working with prisoners, in providing food banks. And that's been an area that has taken me beyond what I've been doing in my own church. So that's one of the key differences.

Simon

So, one of the advantages I think we have seen as a church, and we mentioned this on the podcast in the past, it's actually very difficult to hold the function of an accountant in a church because you see things appearing on bank statements, for example, that maybe causes you to judge. I'm going to say that, you know, carefully. When you see people giving or not giving or how much they're giving, you kind of start building an opinion of that person. Maybe you shouldn't, but it's really hard thing not to do. Is it, then, a little bit easier actually not knowing most of the names that appear on a bank statement?

People are giving; they're just people to you. They're not your friends, your neighbors, part of your church, part of your small group - does that make a difference?

Malcolm

I think it does.

And also when you have a large multi-site church with people in different parts of the shire or the county, there's probably a little bit of geography that is creating a separation there, which makes things easier.

What I do find is that when I do meet people and they're introduced, if their name is appearing regularly on a bank statement as a regular giver, I know that name and I just immediately go, "Oh, it's very nice to meet you" - whoever that name is - because I know the numbers that come up regularly on the bank statement; and that is actually a lovely thing for me.

When I do meet people that are giving to the church, they're names that I recognise and I feel I know them, to some extent, even though I may have never met them face to face.

Bex

There's something in that that's just really beautiful and in a funny way captures a bit of the character of God and the secret giving of - for so long, you don't know these people and then, suddenly, you meet them in whatever context and you're like, "Oh, I know you and I know how you give and I know your heart." Yeah, there's something about that that's just really beautiful!

Malcolm

Yes, givers, like human beings come in all shapes, sizes, habits, and what is just fascinating - there's people that give weekly, people that give monthly, people that give annually. There's people that have fun with their numbers - so, when they set up a standing order, they might do 222.22 or they might 202.02.

They're just having fun with numbers and I see that and I get it, and I just smile. There are people who are obviously really into their numbers, so when they set up their direct debit or their tithe, they're saying, right, I need to calculate all my income and I need to work out 10%. And so it comes up to something .17 - this odd little number that will come up every month!

There's people that round. I don't know whether they round up to the nearest hundred or down to the nearest hundred, but they round! So there's all these different natures and characters in the giving and I find that hilarious.

Bex

I love that. I had no idea. And now I immediately want to go in and change my standing order to be something really fun.

Simon

Here's my top tip to you, Bex: So many of our church congregation will give regularly; they'll give by standing order and that's fine - it's set up. But there are moments in life when maybe you want to give a one-off payment or there's a lump sum coming in. Now because - I'm guessing, Malcolm - on the bank statement, it tells you where the money's come from, I like to use the reference on the payment to send a wee message to somebody!

So next time you're paying some money, you could say, you know, "Hi there!" or "How are you doing?" as a reference. Have you ever had that, Malcolm? Have you ever read something and thought, "Aw, that's really nice!"?

Malcolm

I have never seen that. And I'm wondering whether the bank statements actually don't always show some of that reference.

So, I get names, but sometimes when you get these one-offs, you have a little bit of what I describe as 'forensic accounting', and you're trying to work out where this has come from and for what purpose.

And when you have a church and a charity that has such diverse activities - we've got a 30 page bank statement - you're trying to work out these one-offs and saying, "Well, is this a room rental in Peterhead? Or is this a gift for having a wedding in the hall in such and such a place?" And sometimes it can be a little bit of a challenge to work these things out.

Simon

So, let's change my top tip. Bex, top tip is: make it really clear what the money's for. Okay!

Bex

"Stop having fun, Bex!" But I love that sometimes you have to do some 'forensic accounting', as you described it.

And I remember being really struck one staff meeting when you were explaining that that week you had had a call from the bank and they were saying, "Were you expecting any big sums of money to come in?" And you're like, "No, not really." And they basically stopped allowing money in because people had been so generous in response to an appeal for one of our mission partners who had had some flooding!

And I just love that in the, kind of, almost legal framework and safeguarding framework that these moments of generosity all over the place are flagged by financial systems that are saying, "This looks like some risky activity!" And I love the challenge of - how can I give in a way that alarms banks?

Simon

That's brilliant! Let me throw a question in with that one, Malcolm.

I want to talk about the relationship that you have in your professional capacity as a church accountant - and I appreciate not every church or charity will have their own accountant - but your relationship between faith and finance?

So the day job is numbers, it's money, it's recording, it's reconciling; it might even be giving information and advice to those parties in the charity who need it. But you're also a man of faith. And I certainly have known experiences where, kind of, the faith and finance sometimes compete.

We want to be faithful people, but the finances don't quite meet the need that we feel called to. Are there any examples in your professional life, or even your personal life, where those things have clashed - you've had to wrestle with money versus the faith?

Malcolm

This is a really interesting topic in a faith-based context, and I see it a little bit as the battle between faith and sight. So as an accountant, I am required really to live by sight. And I want to make sure that I have line of sight to where the income is coming from; and my expenses - I'll have line of sight to that but, then, I'm always conscious that there'll be unexpected expenses coming in.

But I guess I've lived in this context of faith for long enough. In Psalm 50, I think, it says, "He owns the cattle on a thousand hills".

So I think my starting point is that God is in all and behind it all and sees everything. And, so, the faith bit is really, really big - that has to be almost our first line. And, then, there's the working by sight.

And I guess what I'm always looking for is the trustees of the organisation - am I seeing that they're walking by faith, or are they walking by sight? And how do they bring these together, on what I would describe as a tightrope, so that they can be financially responsible and be able to look at the decisions that they've made and say, "Yes, this is the right decision." And, also, being able to move forward in faith - because generally when we move forward in faith, we commit to action before we necessarily know all the resources are there. And I think that's this very, very fine line.

But because we have a God who owns the cattle on the thousand hills, I think we know that we've got some pretty solid backing at the back of it.

And so far, in my roles, I've always been comfortable when the step-outs of faith have been that they've also been accompanied by good financial management and planning and stewarding. And so, that's really brought these two things together.

Bex

And I think the illustration of a tightrope is absolutely bang on in terms of that balance between stewarding resources well and making financially savvy and prudent decisions and the fact that we have a God who provides our every need and who also calls us to walk by faith.

And what I would like to ask is really a two-pronged question, which is: as the accountant who sees all of this firsthand and probably has to do some of the emotional rollercoaster as you step out in faith before the rest of the church maybe follows in that, what are the things you would love congregation members of any church to know? And what would you love church leaders or church employees to know?

Malcolm

So, I guess the first thing is to remember that God is on the throne, that He makes things possible and we always need to just keep looking to Him.

And what I believe He does is He will touch the hearts of people as that vision is communicated in that church community or in that charity community, and He will move them.

And what we've gone through in the last, I guess, two or three years for the charity is to try and get some properties for the congregations who've previously just been meeting for two hours in a school at the weekend and saying, well, let's have a building in each community, that we can have meetings all through the week - and that has been a step of faith.

And when an individual knows that actually it's their community that we're now looking at and targeting, their hearts are moved. And what I've seen is that particular community will then put their hands deep into their pockets to say, "We want to see this project take place and God has given me the resources and I'm going to make a contribution". So, that has been wonderful to see over the last two or three years.

Simon

I suppose in a similar vein, but almost flipping the question, there might be some of our listeners who do work within the charity finance sector. They might just be volunteers, treasurers of small charities, they might be accountants who are doing some work. You're operating in an employed role, part time, but in a relatively complex 30-page bank statement charity. Are there any kind of top tips or advice you might give to those who are operating on a smaller scale perhaps, or even those thinking, "Oh, maybe I could help out my local charity / my local church with the finance function". What are the things they can do well to support that charity, to help them be good stewards of the resources they're being given?

Malcolm

Another great question. Charities operate in the multi-million pound arena, but they can also operate in the £100,000 annual turnover sector as well.

And for the smaller charities, what I would say: there's a lot of technology out there that can really support you - small accounting systems which are giving you all the information that you need, providing you can feed the machine so you can get a lot of that.

So, there's a lot of technology out there. I would still say maybe Excel is still my best friend. Some people will get that. Some people will just be like, "What on earth are you talking about?"

But Excel is a wonderful invention. It is easily amended, adapted, edited.

And that's why I think some of these new technologies which are trying to control a little bit of that can be actually very helpful. And it doesn't take a lot of hours in a week or in a month to actually run a small charity.

It's quite easy to put some very simple processes in place to pay expenses just on a weekly or a fortnightly basis.

And if you can work with your income side, which is generally your givers, and help people to set up standing orders, again it makes the income recording very, very simple and straightforward. What I find is it's the one-offs that cause the most consternation - you know, people who change what they give to the church every month or multiple giving every month - that's what takes the time. If you get things set up steadily, you can greatly simplify the processes. And I've been a treasurer for my own church for about 10 years. I've recently stopped it and handed it on to somebody else; but, again, I was doing that as a volunteer and just spending a few hours a month on that.

Bex

One of the things that I have loved watching, and I'm sure that you did it with the person who you handed on treasury duties to as well, is watching how you have trained people who have previously not worked in finance at all, learn to manage that and to upskill them in that in a way that is helpful to you and to the organisation, but that is probably also super-helpful to them as an individual in terms of just understanding the mechanics of finance, both in a church and charity setting and, I imagine, their own lives. What are the key things that you would be passing on in those moments, whether it's principles or practicalities?

Malcolm

I guess I do love to teach, so I like people to see a subject and get to understand it. I guess what I've always sought to do is bring understanding to the role and, almost like, a questioning mindset. And, so, what we find in the accounting process is that you have certain pieces of information and you're really just trying to logic check between all these different pieces of information that you have. It all makes sense; so, I guess when we've been training up our finance assistants, we're saying, "Are you asking the question; is this cost the genuine cost?" We do make mistakes - we get pieces of paper coming in which says this is a statement and we've actually paid the amount on the statement rather than saying we only pay invoices.

So again, it's trying to train ourselves to make sure that we read what it says on the paper, that we have this inquiring mind to say, is this the right thing? And only at that point we say, right, let's pass for payment. So the inquiring mind, I think, is the key skill that we're looking to develop.

Bex

And I think that is such a healthy thing (a) for people who give to hear that actually before any of the money that they have sacrificially given is spent, things are checked and double-checked and questioned and thought through, but also just such a healthy approach to take in so much of life. I'm thinking about, you know, when we approach the Bible - how much more we can get out of it when we approach it with that inquiring, inquisitive mind rather than seeing it as a thing we should do or taking it all at face value and missing things like the cultural nuances which actually give us so much more understanding of the text.

Simon

Well, when we think about that, Bex, and for your benefit, Malcolm, a couple of seasons ago we had a look at the Bible and we had a look at just some of the 2,000 plus verses in the Bible that talk about money and wealth and possessions.

And we pulled out some of our favorites and some of those that we felt were most significant. So, apart from your Psalm 50 quotation of the cattle on a thousand hills, are there any other key Bible verses that you have learned from when it comes to managing money or your relationship with money or any key parables or encouragements that just stand out in your memory that's a great lesson that the Lord is helping us when it comes to managing money?

Malcolm

Yes, and I would probably say that my go to passage would be Matthew 25, which is the parable of the master who goes away, and while he's away he gives to his three servants different amounts of money. And I always think this is quite helpful because it reminds us that we are not the masters, we are the servants, and our heavenly Father is the master. We are just stewards of these funds. And I always look at the guy who just holds onto the money, he doesn't want to lose it - and I think, is that what the accountant does, you know, because he's so scared, wanting just to be so risk-free that he does nothing? So that, sometimes, is a reputation that us, as accountants, have - and what we come back to is that different people are given different amounts.

So, we're not all necessarily endowed with the same gifts, but all we are expected to do is to make sure that whatever talents that we do have, we use them and we use them well; and we use them in order to serve the master.

Bex

Now, I'm aware we are starting to come towards the end of our time, but something that I love to give people an opportunity to do is to share either just something that is in their head or on their heart that they would like to share, that they think is relevant to the audience that maybe hasn't been asked, or to share a story of how you have seen God's generosity at work.

Malcolm

I guess the thing that's in my mind a lot at the moment is this social transformation, charity work that is going on within the church. And it takes on so many forms. It can take the form of helping people to find work, of helping people to manage their money, get out of debt; it can provide food for people; and it's also taken on the form of running a cafe.

And the thing about this cafe that has been started is that you can sometimes see a cafe on the corner and it's a commercial enterprise. And you can also see a cafe on the corner which is a mission opportunity.

And this cafe that's been set up has been set up as what I would describe as a ministry.

What it is seeking to do is to find its customers, to serve them with the love of Jesus Christ and to be signposts, for those that maybe don't know him, towards Jesus Christ. And it's been beautiful to see some of the people getting involved in that.

And if you ever go down into the cafe, there's volunteers, they are not paid staff, and they are giving their time and they're giving their conversations to these people. And that has been one of the highlights that I've seen.

You can look at it in a secular way and think, "Oh, it's just a cafe," but you can look at it with completely different eyes and see, "This is a ministry" - and that's been one of the beautiful things to see.

Bex

I feel like I'm getting a bit emotional just hearing you talk about it, Malcolm, but just as you were talking, I just felt the Lord drop into my head that there might be people who are listening to this who have a similar dream of wanting to see the kingdom of God come in some way. And they've either started that and it is hard or perhaps financial understanding is actually the thing that is the biggest barrier at the moment.

And I wondered if you would be willing just to pray for people in those situations.

Malcolm

Okay, shall we pray then?

Simon

Go for it.

Malcolm

Heavenly Father, we want to thank you that you are the master, you're the potter, we are the clay. You have all these ideas and plans and you share them with your servants.

And Father, for any servants out there who are feeling the call of the Master and don't really quite know where to turn, Father, we want to just pray that the other people that you've been calling that are going to give them advice and maybe provide them with the resources would also hear that call and that vision. And we pray, Father, that you would connect them in some way so that that project, that idea, can flower and come into existence.

Father, we want to thank you that you are the great mission controller, you are the great coordinator, you are the great resourcer, and you call your people just to serve you.

And so we just want to pray that you would make that way and that you would enable people to see these connections and grasp them and keep on serving you and following you in whatever you have called them to. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Simon

Amen.

Bex

Amen.

Simon

It was lovely hearing you talk, Malcolm, about that concept of the cafe as ministry. And certainly there are people being welcomed into that space; there are volunteers working.

What struck me in that moment was that maybe the finance function of a church or the finance function of a charity is the least frontline thing that is going on in a church.

There's people who are preaching and teaching and worshipping and welcoming and leading kids ministries, and they're on the streets and they're running the cafe - whatever it happens to be.

And you go deeper and deeper into the layers of volunteers and employees and management of the church, and eventually you find, huddled in a little cupboard somewhere, the finance person or the finance team - they're so far removed from the front line. But I felt a real sense of the ministry of finance. It is something that people serve. It is something that people who are gifted by God do well.

They transform what can be a really messy situation into a very powerful resource that is then employed through the ministry of a church or a charity.

The mission of those people cannot be fulfilled without someone like you, Malcolm, doing a fantastic job, often behind the scenes, often unsung, but you're absolutely one of our heroes. So we want to say thank you for being on our podcast today. Thank you for giving your time and your effort and your ability to the mission and ministry of our church, but also for sharing so much of your wisdom to those who might want to do the same thing in the future. It's a fantastic role.

We love you for it and we hope one day maybe we'll get you back on when we get to those really tough questions, Bex, that nobody else can answer - what do you think?

Bex

Oh, I definitely want that. I could listen to Malcolm talk all day.

And if you are also an accountant / treasurer in any way involved in the money in your church or charity, and you're listening today, we also just want to echo what Simon said to each and every one of you. We don't know the individual work that you're doing, but the Lord does.

And yeah, we are just excited to see how all different aspects of church and charity and then, ultimately, society flourish as a result of people like you working so diligently and in such a skilled way.

Simon

So, Malcolm, thank you for joining us. Anything you want to wrap up before we close off for our recording today?

Malcolm

You were talking about the accountant who's somebody who's not on the front line. One of the things that I would say is because we see every single transaction going through - I see the person that has just paid three pounds to turn up at Peterhead 'Mainly Music', and the four pounds fifty at Stonehaven, which means that they're a child minder, have got more than one kid - and so, sometimes, I think we see some wonderful frontline things. We look at the invoice register and I see, "Oh, there's a 'People who are Suffering from Bereavement through Suicide' group meeting in John Street - and we see all of that just through that 30-page bank statement.

So, it's maybe that we're not at the front line, but we're seeing the work of the church and we're seeing it in real time and we've got a front row seat on what's happening, particularly with the little products like Zettel, which allow people to take money instantaneously - I get an email every time that comes through!

So, thank you very much for inviting me to participate in this. This has been a new experience for me, and it's just really good to be talking about these things and talking about money, but also talking about the Lord and how He uses this money just as a tool to work His purposes out. So, yeah, thank you for having me.

Simon

Malcolm, thank you so much! You're so our kind of person!

Thank you for listening to Season 9, Bonus Episode One on the 'Where Your Treasure Is...' podcast.

We do have Bonus Episode two coming up - don't miss it!

Bex

Is there going to be another guest?

Simon

There is another guest, Bex!

Bex

Well, we'll find out who it is next time! See you then.

Simon

See you then.

Bex

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