Understanding ADHD in kids and how to best support them can be pretty overwhelming (I know from experience), so today I’m so excited to have an expert here with me to help you through it! 

Lainie Donnell is an educational therapist, a college counselor, and the cofounder of Lila Learning. For the past 16 years, Lainie has been in private practice as an educational therapist and college counselor, bringing to her clients an empathic, enthusiastic and pragmatic approach to their educational journeys.

Her philosophy has been to meet her students where they are currently functioning and help to develop their skills, providing them with a “toolbox” to meet their challenges head-on.  

She’s here today to share her expertise on ADHD - from how it might show up in kids to ways you can address challenges related to ADHD and find support for your child.

Lainie’s own experiences with dyslexia, auditory and visual processing issues and ADHD led her to this work. During college, she fell in love with teaching and the classroom and got her Masters degree in special education. 

She says that as a child, even though she had a lot of support, she continued to struggle. Finally being diagnosed with ADHD in the 10th grade gave her a new understanding of herself and how she functions (in her case, meds helped a lot, too).

Lainie’s children also have ADHD, so it is both a professional and deeply personal topic for her that is infused into all areas of her life. 

Parents of kids with any kind of neurodivergence often feel fear around their future and ability to be successful. 

Lainie says, “There are so many success stories, and I just think it's a matter of approach and attitude and a willingness to embrace.” 

What is ADHD?

ADHD refers to issues with self-regulation, working memory, sensory integration and the self-management part of the brain. 

Beyond the general diagnosis of ADHD, there are also three subtypes: inattentive, hyperactive and combined.

The inattentive subtype is actually over-attention. The child is paying attention to too many things at a given time. There is too much stimulation, and they can’t prioritize where their attention should go. These kids may not have a lot of behavior issues because they sit quietly, drifting off. Think of a classroom setting with many other students around, stuff hanging on the walls, sounds out in the hallway, etc. all competing with the teacher’s voice.

The hyperactive-impulsive subtype is what it sounds like. The child doesn’t think before they act. They understand consequences but just don’t think about them ahead of time. These are the kids who are often labeled “bad” early on because their hyperactive and impulsive behavior is much more obvious.

The combined subtype combines elements of both. Inattention, hyperactivity and impulsivity might show up at different times and in different situations. 

ADHD affects many areas of executive function. Think of executive function like the conductor of an orchestra in your brain. It tells you when to get started with a task, when to manage your time, when to shift to another task, etc. 

Working memory is one piece of executive function. It allows us to hold on to information while we’re manipulating it and doing something else. It shows up in so many areas of life, including math, writing and social interactions. 

In kids, this might look like interrupting or not responding to social cues. It doesn’t mean that they don’t understand those cues. It’s simply a challenge for them to notice the cue, pay attention to the other person and also hold on to what they want to say. 

In the ADHD brain, development of executive function is delayed 3 years, on average. This is one reason why kids with ADHD struggle in relation to their neurotypical peers. 

Understanding ADHD Challenges and Self Esteem

Between the ages of 2 and around 5 or 6, the developmental question kids are trying to figure out is, am I good or am I bad? It’s very black and white at this age. And at this age good/bad is largely based on behavior. 

As they grow between ages 6 and 12, the question they’re answering is, am I capable? 

If the answer is no, they don’t think they’re capable, it creates more struggle in academics, learning and trying new things. 

As Lainie explains, school can be a challenging environment for kids with ADHD. Their self esteem gets wrapped up in recognition, success and benchmarks - academic and social. If they aren’t getting the stars, stickers and check marks, it starts to tear away at kids’ self esteem and there becomes a clear divide between ability levels.

And the cycle perpetuates itself, because when kids have low self esteem and are unhappy, the learning stops. 

To parents and caregivers, ADHD can look like a disorder of choice or motivation. They might even view it as laziness. But in the vast majority of cases, no kid wants to fail or let down their teachers or parents. Kids are motivated to please and do well. If they’re not meeting the expectations, it’s because something is in their way. 

Signs of ADHD

With little kids, we (the parents) act as their executive function, but you might notice issues with impulse control or dysregulation, hyperfocus at some times and inattention at others. 

During adolescence, the signs might become more clear. Some common observations include:

• Living in the gap between intention and follow through
• Not writing down school assignments
• Piles of wrappers and stuff in their backpack
• Sensory integration issues (when combined with other signs)
• Procrastination

As moms, it’s often hard to know what’s “normal”, especially since there is such a wide range in development among kids. But you might have a feeling in your gut that something is off. 

Your pediatrician is a great place to start the conversation. You can also seek out a developmental physician specializing in ADHD, a neuropsych evaluation or other experts. 

If a diagnosis comes, it can actually be a gift to your kid. The challenges they’re facing aren’t their fault, and it takes that weight off of them. That doesn’t mean they don’t have to pay attention or do homework. It just means that you can work together to figure out a different way that works for them. The diagnosis will help inform what skills you need to be teaching and what support will help your child most.

Tips for Parenting a Kid with ADHD

Lainie shared some of her top tips for parents of kids with ADHD.

Teach using the “I do, we do, you do” approach. We can’t expect to go totally hands off as our kids get into middle school and high school and expect them to manage their time, schoolwork and other responsibilities all on their own. We have to teach it so that they can do it. 

Stop “shoulding” your kid. Instead of thinking they should know this already or they should do something differently, meet them where they are and help them along to where they can be. 

Create structure and routine. The ADHD brain thrives on structure but is unable to create it. 

Start early working with kids on due dates and planning. Include them in the planning process and choose a paper planner or calendar. 

Create a workspace that feels calm, clear and spacious. 

Keep morning and afternoon routines very simple and limit the amount of toys, clothes, shoes, etc. so it isn’t overwhelming. 

There will likely be resistance, but it is so worthwhile to help your child learn these skills that will support them throughout the rest of their life.

If you’ve been nodding along, this all sounds SO familiar and you want more support, Lainie offers lots of great resources, including the planner, binder, workshops for parents and students and college counseling (links below). 

You’ll Learn:

• Why understanding how your kid’s brain works can be so helpful in parenting
• When you might see intense attention or hyperfocus in your kid, even if they often struggle to focus
• Common signs of ADHD and what to do if you think your kid may have ADHD
• How to support your child with ADHD and give them the skills they need to thrive

Connect with Lainie:

• Learn more about Lainie’s work and services on her website.
• Get the LiLa planner or binder system (created by Lainie and her business partner) and check out workshops at www.lilalearning.com  
• Search for an educational therapist near you through the Association of Educational Therapists  

Free Resources:

Get your copy of the Stop Yelling Cheat Sheet!

In this free guide you’ll discover:

✨ A simple tool to stop yelling once you’ve started (This one thing will get you calm.)

✨ 40 things to do instead of yelling. (You only need to pick one!)

✨ Exactly why you yell. (And how to stop yourself from starting.)

✨A script to say to your kids when you yell. (So they don't follow you around!)

Download the Stop Yelling Cheat Sheet here

Connect With Darlynn: 

• Book a complimentary session with Darlynn
• Learn about the different parenting programs at www.calmmamacoaching.com
• Follow me on Instagram @darlynnchildress for daily tips 
• Rate and review the podcast on Itunes

Welcome back to another episode of Become a Calm Mama. I'm your host. I'm

Darlyn Childress, and I'm a life and parenting coach. And today on

the podcast, I love this because we're gonna talk about

ADHD. And I know You're already like, wait. We're gonna

talk about ADHD? This is so exciting. And I'm just I'm not the

one gonna talk about it. I'm gonna let you learn from

Lainie Donnell. Lainie's here. She is

an educational therapist, a college counselor, and the cofounder of

Lila Learning, which she's gonna tell us about. And so I've invited

Lainie on the podcast to share her expertise

about ADHD and Just cognitive

function, executive function, things like that. So welcome, Lainie,

to the podcast. Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm so

happy to be here and talk about one of my favorite subjects.

Why don't you introduce yourself? Give us a little background of, like, You

know, what what you'd what how you got into this? Like, why do you why

do you work as an ed therapist? Yeah.

So I was diagnosed actually in 2nd grade with dyslexia

and auditory and visual processing issues and a Whole bevy of

other things. But then I didn't realize that I had

ADHD until I was in 10th grade.

And so even though I Got a lot of help

and support. Things just kind of I kept tripping

over myself. I always say, you know, we tend to

get in the way of ourselves. So we figured that

out or a neuropsychologist figured that out. Kind

of armed with that information, I was able

to under understand myself a little bit better. I

did go on medication, which was game changing for me. It It is not

game changing for everyone, but it can be for some. It was

just better able to understand my executive function

difficulties. And then from then on,

college, back and forth whether I become a psychologist or what I'm gonna do, and

then I kind of fell into teaching. Absolutely fell

in love with the classroom, and working 1 on 1. Got

my master's in special education, got my

education specialist teaching credential, and then eventually

Started working in the evenings as an educational therapist, kinda

stuck with that after I had children and left the classroom.

I've been doing that ever since. So, this is

a very personal topic for me. It's a professional topic for me,

And both of my children have ADHD. And so,

it's, on every level. I am surrounded by it

day night. There is no escaping this.

Yeah. I just felt so encouraged

By Your Story, and how I think when we're

raising kids and they have neurodivergence, like you You said, you know,

you dyslexia and visual processing and then later

ADHD. It's so easy as a parent to think, oh my god. How are they

ever gonna be successful? And then you come on the podcast in your

own personal story, and you're like, well, I'm I have a master's in this,

and I do this. And I, I obviously went to college, graduated

from college, you know, learned to read. There's so much hope, I think,

just for anyone who has, Right now, I was raising a kid and

feels discouraged. It's like, oh, no, Lainie. Right. A success story, and

there are so many examples of that. That's encouraging just by

itself. There are so many success stories and I just think it's a matter

of approach and Attitude and a

willingness to embrace, because it was very much

something that was talked about in my family. It was just

part of the conversation, and, I was taught

early on about how to advocate for myself, How to Speak Up. I do

think there was a piece of it in my personality that I was

never kind of a quiet person. However,

Our early self esteem, we go from hopefully a loving

home and then we go to school and our self esteem is very much

wrapped up in What happens in the school arena, whether

it's social or academic and we get our stars and our stickers and our checks

and our check pluses. And when those things

aren't happening, it starts

to tear away at your self esteem and you Very clearly start

to see the divide between not really the haves and the have

nots, but the, able and the unable,

especially with reading. And so I was a otherwise

fairly happy kid and then I wasn't. And so we see

that with students all the time. But if we've got low

self esteem and unhappiness, once that emotional

layer And it comes over a student,

learning stops happening. It's so critical to kind

of understand where that self esteem piece Fitzhinn.

I feel like I might have just gotten off topic. That's okay. No.

It's good. I always say, You know that we have

these developmental stages that we go through. And when you're 2 to

5, 2 to 6, the developmental question is, am I good or am I

bad? And we want a kid Mhmm. They think of it as very,

binary like that, black and white because they're little. Yes. Yes. And we want them

to answer, I am good. Right? Like, at my core Right. I'm a

good kid. And that's why it's so important how we parent.

And then from 6 to 12. The

question that they're answering is, am I capable? Mhmm. And I think what

you're talking about really addresses that is, like, if the If they come up

with the answer of no, I'm not capable, that

will create that longer term struggle in academics

and struggle in trying new things and, sticking

to something, all of that. Yeah. And I think part of

what you were saying, am I good or am I bad in those

Early years when we're in school in the traditional

setting, that's typically based on behavior. How they feel

with their good or bad. And so when we look

at ADHD, ADHD is the the umbrella

term. That is the diagnostic term now. There's no

ADHD and ADD. The umbrella term is ADHD and

it's a it's an issue with the, you know,

Self regulation, working memory,

sensory integration, self management part of the

brain. Okay. And so that's kind of

the umbrella of ADHD and then we've got 3 subtypes to that

can be diagnosed. We've got inattentive, hyperactive

and combined type. Now, inattentive

is very misleading, because it's not an inattention.

It is not that these students can't pay attention. It's

actually an Over attention to too

many things, too much stimuli at a given time. So take

the classroom for instance. We've got a student who's sitting there With,

you know, anywhere from 18 to 30

other kids all around them. And so there's all that stimuli.

There's Stuff on the walls. They're thinking about after school. The

air conditioning just kicked off. Maybe someone is

walking outside and their shoes are kind of clicking. Someone is playing

with a pencil. Oh, wait. And the teacher's talking and doing

something, and, oh, the seat is a little uncomfortable. And I

can tell ever so slightly that one of the legs of my chair is

a little shorter than the other so I can wiggle. And so

It's all equal stimuli all at one time

and the inability to prioritize your attention To be

able to go, oh, wait a minute. The teacher's talking. I should be

focused there. So that brain is unable to kind

of Click in and go, oh, I should just pay attention to the

teacher. So it's not inattention. It's kind of overattention

or an inability to kind of manage your So that's

inattentive then hyperactive and impulsive. Right?

It's exactly what it sounds like. So unable to

regulate your, reactions, your behavior,

they I remember years ago, instead of ready, aim, fire,

it was fire, ready, aim. And so you just don't

think before you act. You don't think about the consequences. It's not that you

don't comprehend consequences. It's that they don't occur to you

before you Actually take that action. And

so going back to what we were saying, the kids

who are a behavior issue Get the sense that

they're bad early on because those are the students who

are most obvious. They are the most obvious students who

are struggling. The inattentive students fit

quietly. Those are the ones who are drifting off

thinking about Whatever it is that is way more

interesting and that is providing some dopamine to them than what is

going on in the classroom. Yeah. And so that sense of

good and bad early on in relation to behavior happens,

very quickly for those kids who have combined and hyperactive Div or

impulsivity issues. Yes. The inattentive

students often it gets very internalized because

because of just that, it's just happening inside, and so it's a very hidden

disability. Yeah. My son Yeah.

Lincoln was diagnosed ADHD at 6. Primarily

Mhmm. I got him, You know, resources

and, like, you know, sought out trying to figure out what was going on is

because he was getting in trouble so much in school. And I didn't

I didn't understand what was happening. But, also, I really

was so aware that he needed to believe that he was, like,

Good boy. I never use that language at all in parenting, but that's how they

think of themselves. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I was concerned

that, You know, being have a red card every day. Like, you know,

the teachers will have your start on green, and then you have a yellow card,

and then your red card, and you have to turn your card. All of those

I know. Those way ways that

teachers manage their classroom work 1st, a lot

well, I don't know if they're healthy at all, but, you know, they work for

some kids and doesn't have a long term effect. But on

a kid that's trying to decide or figure out, like, my good

boy, my good girl, what's going on? They're in trouble all the time. That's

not good long term. Yeah. No. I do feel

that I was gonna say, I think Lincoln has grown out

of his hype his combined type, but then now I'm thinking about Oh, I hope

so. Good. It's probably still the impulsive yes.

Like purchasing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's

it's it's the dopamine seeking. We

lack dopamine, and the only times that

so this is the The beauty and the

evil of this is that the only

time when you, Attention is a

nonissue. Impulsivity may be a bit of an issue, but not

hyperactivity. If

the situation is such high interest that

it is no problem to pay attention because your body is giving you

So much of the chemicals that you need to feel good

and excited. So for some students, those are Legos. So

parents always come to me and they're like, well, He can sit and do Legos

for 3 hours, but then it's time to do homework and he can't sit

still. Or, Thomas Brown talks about,

the student he had who was a hockey player, one of the best goalkeepers

of all time And had the worst case of ADHD he

had seen in his career, as of yet.

And so a goalkeeper, he that's all he wanted to do and so

it was absolutely no problem. Or,

You know, my nephew is an incredible

reader, but we used to literally have to pull the book out of

his hands to get him to engage. Joy. And so

it just kinda depends on what that high interest activity

is. And then the other instance where attention is not an issue for

kids with ADHD. Is that if the,

if the consequence is so negative that it

wants to be avoided. So that's why we have our last minute Larry's. So

at 9 o'clock, the night before something is due for our students, If

there's no other learning disability, they're gonna kick into gear and they

are gonna write some kick butt essay and Get

it done and maybe get it turned in the next day. I don't know. Once

they've gotten that dopamine kick, they're all of a sudden, like, there's a

huge let down, and they're like, oh, I don't know. I wrote it. I don't

know if I turned it in, but that's a whole other conversation.

But those are the 2 instances where Attention isn't a problem.

And for a mom or a parent, or a caregiver,

it's confusing because they're like, I see that they can do it. They just aren't

doing it. So it looks like a disorder of choice. It looks

like a disorder of choice or motivation, and

I don't really blame You know, teachers or parents,

when they say, like, he's just so lazy or he's so

unmotivated. Well, I really subscribe to Rick

LaVoy, who is amazing, and I would encourage anyone to look him

up. But there really is a myth of laziness. Like, it's it's

No. My partner Liz and I always say when we're presenting to teachers

and parents, we always say

that no kid, And unless there is a like

diagnosable, ED, emotional disturbance,

something behavior based, no kid is

wanting to fail their teachers or their parents or

wanting to not meet the expectation that is being

presented to them. Right? If they are not meeting those

expectations, not getting the sticker or whatever it is,

And then something is in their way. It is not their motivation

to disappoint. It is their motivation to please

and do well. And so there's another piece of the puzzle missing when they

are not doing well. Mhmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. I just keep thinking of my

own son and how how much it

has helped our relationship understanding how his brain works

because Right. It is really easy to give you

know, Lincoln is lazy. You know, Lincoln is, you know, kind

of these Labels that then erode his

concept. If I say you're lazy, then he's gonna hold that as

an identity. And I would rather I always say, like, procrastination is

your friend, bud. Instead of getting angry with him, I'm like, yeah.

It creates urgency for you, and then that Lights Your

Fire. I would not I wouldn't choose to be that way because

it would be too stressful to me, but I'm Right. Motivated

differently. And I was gonna say about the

inattention and the high interest attention. I sometimes call it

hyper hyper hypertension. Like, hyperactive

Hypertension. And I'm Hyperfocus is a

thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's so cool to Go ahead. Finish what

you're saying. Yeah. To watch him be able to, like, you know,

play the guitar for 3 hours or when he was little, play Legos for hours

at a time or build The most incredible Hot Wheels

contraption as a little kid or, you know, whatever it was that he

was interested in, he would stay in it for a long time.

And it's really amazing. Attention is I

mean, I have a student who he's in 6th grade

and, Yeah. His ability

to, take a deep dive and retain

information about Any piece of history related to

wars in the world, it's beyond me,

and it's it's not It's so interesting because at one point, his mom

was like, is he autistic? Is this like a savant tendency? And I'm like, no.

No. No. No. No. No. No. This is not who he is.

This is his hyper focus and that is

the amazing thing about this ADHD brain is that

It just works differently. It's not any better.

It's not any worse. It feels worse because

of the structure In which it has to function

in K through 12. Mhmm. Right? And

the classroom environment, you know, Teachers, what

what parents need to know and I I

love teachers. I loved being a classroom teacher. I

I continue to maybe, not maybe, but

to have faith in teachers. What you have to understand is that

When teachers go get their credential,

okay, they get 1

semester, One class in special education in the state

of California. Okay? And it doesn't vary by very

much in other states. And that class

covers everything that falls under special education, which is

a huge, huge area. And then they're

supposed to go into these classrooms, and we have this

mandate, federally, that we're supposed to have inclusion,

which is a beautiful concept of including all students

in all classrooms. And the the theory

behind it is to

Is to look at neurodiversity, respect

brain differences, strengths, challenges, yet our teachers

Art really prepared to go in there and do that. And so

we haven't given them the support, but meanwhile,

Parents are depending on our educators and our teachers to give them

the heads up and say, here's what's going on. But teachers don't

Always know that. They don't know always what they're looking at. You'd

be so surprised, and one of my

absolute favorite things to do is to get into pre service

programs with teachers doing, simulations

and talking about what learning disabilities look like in the classroom, But also

getting into the schools, and working with

teachers so that they can understand what it looks like within the classroom.

Because It's also I think for parents what they need to understand

is also it's it's a whole personality type. It's not just an

attention issue. This also includes, you know,

immense emotionality of very high sensitivity. You

know, if your kid is, You know, you just said to

them, I need you to go clean your room. And they're like, why are you

yelling at me? Right? That highly highly sensitive kid.

Speaking of room, chances are they take their shoes off and that's

where their shoes are gonna stay for weeks on end. Right? And you

go and you tell them, please go clean up your room. And they go in

there and they clean it up and then you go into their room and go,

wait. You just said you cleaned your room. And It looks

like absolutely nothing has happened. They literally don't

see what you are seeing. It they

don't see the shoes that are in the middle of the floor or the pile

of sand that fell out of their shoes. It's just not part

of what they are processing. It's not a vision thing. It's just that they're

not seeing it. But it it really is

so much bigger. You know, it's that time management piece. It's

that peer interaction. It's that ability to give and take

in a conversation. It's that, You

know, a lot of people don't know about this thing called working

memory and working memory is a piece of,

your what's called executive function. And you can think about

executive function. Liz and I always say it's like the It's like

the conductor of an orchestra in your brain, and it's happening right

here in your frontal lobe. Okay? And there's this

little conductor in your brain who is basically,

telling you, okay. It's time to time manage. Okay. Stop

time managing. It's time to actually get started with this task. Let's Move on from

this task and let's go to the next task. And so there's this

little conductor telling you what to do and, oh,

Hold this really quiet right here. Let's keep the violins at this level so

that we can bring in the percussion. That is part of the working memory.

It's like Holding on to information while you're

manipulating it and doing something else. So for example,

Let's say I'll come back to the peer interaction piece, but just so I can

explain what this working memory is. So let's think about,

learning order of Okay? If we learn order

of operations in math, we've got to also have some math

fluency. Right? We've gotta know our multiplication table. We've

gotta remember how to add and subtract and carry and do all of those

things. Right? And then you've gotta learn This order operations,

that's PEMDAS. Right? Math is not my strong

suit, but, you've gotta hold on to all of that

Background knowledge while doing the order of

operations. When you have 4 working memory and you

can't hold on to those math facts and that Fluency of maybe

your multiplication table, the order of operations isn't

actually gonna happen. Okay? It's the same thing with algebra.

Think about all the steps that go into algebra. There's so many

little pieces of that. And if there's one little cog

that is a little off, then they can't do that.

But if you put a multiplication chart in front of them

And you help their working memory a little bit, oh, all of

a sudden it's no problem to do an algebra problem. It's the same

thing with writing an essay. When you think about writing a paragraph or a

3 paragraph essay, you're thinking about sentence structure, you're thinking

about the actual topic, You're thinking about the organization of the

information, transition words, spelling, punctuation. Right?

Your audience. Am I doing 1st person? Do I have to do 3rd person? Right?

There's so many things that you have to hold on to while actually

performing that task. So if we go back

and we think about working memory and then we go back to

thinking about peer interaction, You've got to remember, well,

right now, darling, you and I are talking and I've got to remember,

okay, this is my professional hat right now. So I need to be speaking to

you professionally. Right? And I also need to,

you know, remember all the things that I know about

ADHD Gie, while also holding on to the question that

I'm actually trying to answer at the same time. And so

I have to hold on to all of those things while I'm performing this

task. Well, a 9 year old boy who just wants

to Get out what they wanna say and the, you

know, and remember that there's some social cues coming at

them. If they're struggling with, you know,

not knowing the social cues, but attending to those

Social cues while they're trying to have a give and take in a conversation

that can create quite a problem because kids wanna be heard. Right? And

if you've got a kid who's doing nothing but interrupting

and touching and grabbing and trying to insert themselves,

Well, you're gonna create quite a problem for yourself, right?

Yeah. So that peer interaction becomes,

a real issue. And so that's just a Piece of that kind of

bigger personality type that comes with the diagnosis

of ADHD, that often gets overlooked.

And, you know, we just think of it as attention or a school

disorder, but this is a a lifelong thing, let me tell you.

Yeah. So what would you say are the, like

I don't know. I don't have a number, but, you know, the 5 things that

kind of Are telltale signs or hallmarks of

ADHD? So and that might be a too complicated of a question, but you had

said in the beginning, you know, there was, like, The, you know,

the different impulse control, self regulation, you

know, these kind of you said them really fast, and I thought that was really

helpful to For a parent who's listening and they're they either have

an ADHD kid and they're, like, wanting to be like,

yes. Yeah. No. That, That's what we saw. That's what we saw. They were really

Yeah. Solidifying their own experience, or a parent

who's like, I don't know. I have clients all the time who are like, We're

not sure if we should have him diagnosed or her diagnosed. We're we're

exploring that. It's kind of in the language right now, especially for

girls and and adult women. And Yeah.

I I think as a parent, sometimes we don't even know what we don't know.

And so what would you say are the things that that

parents should be looking out for or, you know,

screening for, just a few of them. I

think, I think at the the middle and high school

level, I would say one of the biggest things Is that

they live in the gap between intention and follow

through. Mhmm. So they have all the best

intention of okay. I'm I I I'm gonna get all

my homework done or okay. I'm I'm gonna yeah, mom. I'm gonna clean

my room. You know? And then it doesn't happen. And then

everything, you know, where it was, you know, it was said that it's going

to happen and then nothing happens. There's no actual follow Drew.

So living in this gap between intention and follow through.

Yeah. I've definitely seen that. Yeah. Yeah.

But it not so like you're saying, like, middle school and high school

more, less in elementary school because I think we kind of manage

it differently when they're young. Their executive function. Mhmm. We

are we act as their executive function when they're really little.

There's this, you know, this sense in schools that, like, once they get to

middle and high school, you hear it from teachers all the time. Like,

okay. They they've gotta do it now. They've gotta

practice, and my response to that is you've gotta teach

it so then they can do it. We can't just all of a sudden be

hands off, and and I don't think that, you know, doing it for

them constantly. But I remember, In my

master's program or it was in master's or credential. I don't remember,

but it was we were always taught that, I

do, we do, you do. Mhmm. And so as a teacher, I

would do it, you know, model it And then we would do it

together, and then eventually the theory is you would do it on your own.

Mhmm. And so I think what you have To remember with ADHD

is that with executive function, with that little conductor who's living up here

in your frontal lobe, on average On

average, your executive function in the ADHD brain is

delayed at like on average 3 years. So when we

get to 7th grade or 6th grade, you've

gotta remove 3 years from that. Okay? Maybe 2 depending

on who the individual is. And

remember like we can't in in psychology

they called shoulding shoulding yourself. They should be able

to just look at their assignment planner. They wrote it

down. They should be able to. We can't do the

should thing. Let's actually meet our kids where they are and

then help them along to where they can be.

And so I think that, you know, you're right.

In elementary school, we do a very good job at being their

executive function, but I think that when

we're hands off and it's not happening, that's an

additional telltale sign. Wright. That they're not writing

down their homework, that, you know, all of a sudden,

the backpack the backpack is a huge telltale sign. Are

there, Are all their rappers mushed at the bottom of

their backpack in elementary school? Are they,

you know, is everything just getting piled in there?

I think that that is a a a big thing and a commonality

that I see quite, quite often.

I think also a piece of ADHD that

often gets overlooked is the sensory piece.

That not alone, a

sensory integration issue alone is not

A single sign of ADHD. However, when you couple

it with, my mom always used to say that she could have

done surgery on me while I was watching TV. Mhmm. You know, there's this

like full buy in and she could talk to me right here, you know, right

in my ear and, You know, I wouldn't hear anything she

said. So if you couple that with the

messy room and the inability to follow through And then

you added, oftentimes you have a sensory issue. So

sensory integration is kind of what it sounds like.

So Typically with the ADHD person,

their senses are heightened. So either they're very loud or

maybe they're quiet. Maybe sounds are too loud

or too quiet. I don't wanna belabor it, but I just think for moms

who are watching their kids, I hear it all the time. Like, they don't know

what's normal. So you have, like, 3, 4, 5 year

old, and they're all, you know, Bumping

into each other and and, you know, big feel temper tantrums and

all of these things. But I found, Like,

with Lincoln, particularly, it all just seemed a little heightened,

a little outside of the norm. His his Mhmm. Temper

tantrums were more extreme Oh. And lot

lasted longer. He had more instances

of hands on others. He would be hands on

others more aggressively than maybe the other kids. It's like he didn't

have any breaks In his, like no. Yeah.

Brakes, like, not b r e a k,

but brakes, like, for a car, like car brakes.

Yeah. My son who is absolutely

his brain is incredible. Like, I've

never seen a brain like this, but he has a lot

with his ADHD. And He

is turned on in the morning and he is not able to turn

off until night. I do believe kind of

this mom gut. And if there's a question

you're feeling like kind of different,

I believe in diagnosis. Like, oh, I'm

not stupid. I have a MAP disability. That thing. Like,

I knew I was trying so hard, but It just

wasn't clicking and then they find out that there's actually something

going on. It's not their fault. And so to take

that off of them, It's such a gift and to make it part

of the conversation and not and the

isn't I have ADHD, so I can't blah

blah blah or, you know, we're not excusing that.

You don't have to pay attention or you don't have to get your

work done. It's I have ADHD, so we've got to figure

out a different way to accomplish this task. So it's just

gonna look different. It's not a reason not to. It's just figure

out a different way. The path is gonna be different, but I

encourage Parents to get answers and

yes, pediatricians are a good first stop and

I adore my pediatrician, But I also think

that we to the experts in the area. So

seeing someone, you know, for a neuropsych evaluation or seeing a child's

Beatrice or a developmental physician who specializes

in ADHD. I think those are

some of the better Outlets to go to if you

want the diagnosis, then you can, you know, have

conversations about medication or educational therapy.

Strictly speaking, research in science based

peer reviewed, you know, journals. What we know right now,

best outcomes we have right now are

a combination of medication with some

cognitive behavioral therapy, educational therapy, behavioral

therapy, The the 2 together. Just taking

a pill, it's a pill, not a skill. Just taking

the pill is one step. Not going to create

the skill set that you need, so I encourage that, like, approach. Parents

come to me and they say, well, what about diet? And what

What about and I'm like, yeah. Do it all. If

I do this, then all of a sudden it's It's a fix. There's no fix.

There's nothing broken. We need to get away from this idea that, like,

there's something to fix. There isn't anything to fix. Alright.

So, let me just recap. You said if you

are thinking that your child has some sort of

Saenz. Maybe these hallmarks of impulse

control, dysregulation, skill gaps, like what you've

described, messy backpack or hyperfocus at times

and then inattention at other times, all of those things. That your

first stop maybe is your pediatrician. And

Yep. And then we wanna move into a

what you you know, you said it fast, so I wanna really slow it down

for the listener, neuropsych evaluation.

That's something that I think people don't know to ask for or that they that's

what you're seeking when you want to get

Not want to get a diagnosis, but wanna get clarity on what's going on,

and you do that through a child psychologist or child psychiatrist.

Yeah. Developmental pediatricians won't do a neuropsych,

but they are usually just have a larger depth

of knowledge, because they typically specialize

in those issues. I wanted to just say a quick note

about the neuropsych. Just kinda differentiate for

a second between the a neuropsych evaluation and a psycho

That evaluation that the schools provide because there's a lot

of confusion for parents. You know? Well, my son got tested

at school. The testing that the school does is

not diagnostic is not a diagnostic tool. It's

purely To, assess

how they are accessing curriculum and to assess

what the school needs to do to Help them access the curriculum

where a neuropsych evaluation is an independent

evaluation, and it is stick, with diagnosis

codes, etcetera. That's what we did with Lincoln

at at, he was about 6,

and it was pretty comprehensive. And it

wasn't covered by our insurance, or maybe it was, but we had to find

somebody. And it was it's unfortunate. It's it can be

cost prohibited and also hard to find people who do

these. And so I would just encourage parents to, like, Keep working at

it because like you said, Lainie, that the diagnosis will

help inform what you need to be teaching, what

skills you need to be developing and also the medication

conversation. Yeah. And whether that's, like, the right fit and

and that kind of thing. I always say to my my parents, I'm

not a drug pusher by any means, but we do know what the

science says. And the science also says

The earlier a pharmacological intervention is put in place

with kids with ADHD, the less likely

They will engage in risky drug

related behaviors later on.

Really important statistic because it's, it's

something that parents come to me a lot with, especially families that have

addiction, within their family

history, we actually know that if we

intervene earlier, we have better outcomes with that. So

I thought I would just add that in there because I know that's a fear

for a lot of families. Well, it's like parents feel afraid of

the medication in the 1st place, and then they're afraid of what if they

don't do it. And it's it's a difficult

balance. It's a difficult conversation, attention with you

know, it's hence, within us. And and so that's why it's

really helpful to have the data and to then have somebody, you

know, a professional who you're having conversations with.

What are some interventions that you

see really being effective? And How do you

help support your kids once they are diagnosed and you're

like, okay. So this is our situation. We're figuring out meds.

How can families support their kids in the home? What are some things that

you you kind of say, like, basic things with ADHD? You should do

these 3 or these 5 things, whatever. Right.

So I'm going to give them. I'm also gonna preface

it with these don't necessarily work for me in

my home because there is this pushback

by my children because of the nature of what I do,

that they don't necessarily wanna listen to me. So I'm gonna

tell you some things that work for my families, but they don't

always work for me and I just have to be honest about that.

It's not necessary, but we do appreciate your honesty. It's

funny because I'm a parenting coach, and you would, You know, it's

like, oh, do your do you never yell at your children? Right? Like, because I

teach parents how to be calm. I'm like, oh, no. Sometimes I do, and

I know how to repair that. I know why I'm yelling. I know how to

get out of the spiral, and I know how to talk about

it. So it's not, And none of the strategies are, like,

surefire perfect. It just helps to have

some tools in our toolbox. Yes. And so I think that's what everyone

I think that one of the key things that you can do early on I

remember with my daughter, when

In kindergarten, I remember she had to do something with, I think

it was like a leprechaun trap or something. And so we

Early on, we used to create little calendars and

we would sit down and we would write the due date on

the date that it was due. And so working backwards

and teaching them very early on, about

how to what's called backwards plan from a due date

To, to actually get to that due date.

So I think including that them in that planning

process is really important. Helping them to,

create a workspace that feels calm and

clear and large, a large workspace.

The ADHD brain thrives on structure and has

a complete inability to create it.

They cannot create their, Yep. Their own

structure. They don't necessarily, they for sure don't know where

to begin. Helping them to,

Prioritize, figure out. Okay. Well, get this done. I'll be

back 30 minutes and then we can figure out what the next thing is.

And kinda scaffolding that and and modeling. For my middle

and high schoolers, we use a paper

planner, because The research still

tells us that analog or writing is still

the best for our brains. Though schools

now provide these online platforms with due dates,

which is so lovely and Don't get me wrong. I'm very very

grateful for it. They're just that. Their due dates, it's a

to do list. It is not a plan.

So helping them to learn how to plan out their

day while also Understanding the bigger

picture of I have an orthodontist appointment on Tuesday, and I

also have volleyball for 2 hours. So the ortho and

volleyball. So Tuesday night is a terrible night for me to get

work done, so I better plan for Monday and Wednesday.

Right? So really mapping out when things are

going to happen. You will for have some

resistance. Ultimately, I think that students will be

incredibly grateful for that. My business partner and

I, after years years of working with A variety

of different planners. We developed 1, the

Lila plan. It's now sold on our website

and it's a tool that incorporates both,

you know, morning activities, after school activities,

Tools to kind of help you think about, this is on

Friday. What do I need to do on Thursday and Wednesday and

Tuesday? And it comes with an instructional video, so you're not

just like handed a planner and, you know, go for it. Mhmm.

We also have a binder That is a whole

system for middle and high schoolers. Elementary schools,

again, typically are the executive function for these kids.

Do I wish it was different? Yes. I wish that starting in 2nd

grade, we were teaching these skills explicitly. So and then I

think, You know, reaching out for help finding an educational

therapist who is able to help with the school

based skill. You know, educational therapy, it's kind of

like physical therapy for skills in school.

Physical therapy, you go to build up a muscle or, you know, something

was broken and you need to relearn how to, you know, use your

Appropriately well in educational therapy, we focus

on how do we break down the society. Okay. We have to study. How do

we study and how do we study in a way that's good for my

learning style, right? How do I? I'm really

A bodily aware and kinesthetic. How can I turn

my studying into movement? Things like that. And so

those skills that You know, curriculum based instruction just

doesn't seem to be able to make time for doubly helpful.

Yeah. Okay. This is all so good. Calendaring out big

projects, creating a large workspace that is really, you

know, conducive to learning to plan you know, sitting

there, no distractions, structuring, you

know, having structure, using a planner, and then getting some

support. I love all these they're very focused on school,

so maybe I'll just share on another episode of what I've done in my

family. I I noticed that with my with my son that,

like, what you're saying, like, they can't create structure but thrive from

it, how important it was that I had A pretty

solid routine. Like, what was done in the morning, very, very

simple, bare necessity, the 5 things before we go to school.

And then the rhythm of the afternoon was really simple. Really not

a lot of toys, not a lot of clothes, not a lot of shoes.

Mhmm. A lot of rhythms around when we would do things. And

in retrospect, I am thinking like, oh, I really did

create all of that just to manage for myself,

but probably because of Lincoln. Like, it just he needed this

this drum, like, boom boom boom in the background

Mhmm. So that he could kind of know where he was

in space and time and what was coming next. The emotional coaching things

that I teach around self regulation and

processing emotion, not going against someone else's body. It

also all kinda stemmed from having this impulsive

kid. So I it's interesting to me in, like, Now he's a

grown up, but realizing a lot of the things that

I needed to figure out in parenting were probably because I was

rich ADHD kid. There's no doubt

ADHD is one of the most heritable trait Mhmm.

Or, diabetes, which means that Chances are

very high that mom or

dad, possibly uncle also has ADHD

and it's an interesting thing. It's very much

a spectrum disorder. It looks very different in different kids

And adults. As a mom with

ADHD, parenting children with ADHD, I think it

It could be a whole other topic, because it's

an incredibly challenging thing, you know? When you

have to recognize The things that you struggled with in

your children, it brings up a whole other level of

difficulty. Yeah. And when you're the mom the guilt. And

you listen to these podcast episodes, and the the teacher like myself

is like, create routines, create structure, and you're like, I don't know

how. And I find that Right. You know, I must teach this

way for a reason. Like, okay. Here's step 1. We're gonna start here. We're gonna

this is like Mhmm. A skeleton outline of how bedtime should go or

a skeleton outline of how mornings you know, your morning routine.

Because I do think A lot of us, even with

without ADHD, aren't it's so overwhelming to

parent kids, and then your kids are wild. And it's like, What's the most

important thing? What am I supposed to be focusing on right now? Like, kids make

us feel like we have ADHD, but then if you actually have it, it's even

more complicated. Yes. Yes. Yes. A

100%. Yes. Good. Well, I so appreciate

you coming on and helping us understand a little bit about what

ADHD Dee. Looks like in our

kids and those signs, those things to be looking out for, I

think anyone listening It's like, oh, yeah. I saw yeah. That's

uh-huh. I've seen that. Okay. Okay. The now putting the pieces

together, maybe we get some support, helping us figure out how to

start with that and then what to do, how to create more school

success, how to protect their self concept and their self

esteem as they develop. Yeah. So important.

Yep. And that your planner sounds amazing. So we'll definitely some of you have

Kids, you know you have ADHD kids, and you have a middle school and high

school, and you're like, wait. What did you say about that planner? Do I need

that? You do. So, you know, we'll put the

Website in the show notes, but go ahead and share with us where can people

find out about you and the planner.

Www. Lila, lila,

learning .com and that's where you can find our planner, our

binder, And also we do student workshops,

parent and workshops teaching teachers we co in

schools. And then my personal website

is edther com, and that's where

you can find out about me and my ed therapy and college Counseling

practice and if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them.

But, yeah, I'm here to answer questions or help or get you in the

right direction and I'm really glad I got to talk to you today. Thank

you. Yeah. Just in case it wasn't clear, it's edtherapist.com

and lila learning .com. So be sure to go

and find all of Laney's resources. And

Even going on a website kind of gives a parent guidance of like, oh,

this is what I should be looking for. These are the types of supports I

need. This is what it looks like. I think it can be really helpful even

if you're, you know, you're fully booked, but having a parent just kind

of see, oh, this is what bed therapist, Dew.

I need that, and then start to seek out resources. I love

it. Yeah. And there's a database called,

AET online associate educational therapist,

and you can search for educational therapist across

The United States. Search your ZIP code and who's there and what

they're doing, so that's a really good resource too.

So good. Yeah. Well, we'll I'll have you on again because I

think it would be great to talk about what it's like

having ADHD and then just parenting in general and

then particularly parenting kids with ADHD. Thank you. Thank you. I'm

sure everyone is gonna love this episode. And,

yeah, please check The show notes. Go to Laney's

website. And, obviously, or always, if you want

some parenting support, you can reach out to me at callmama

coaching.com. So, yeah, we're we're here. Both of

us are here as a resource to you. So wishing you a

great week, and thank you so much to Lainie. You're welcome.

Thank you.