This podcast episode features a compelling conversation with Grace, a mental health therapist who shares her harrowing journey from a troubled childhood to becoming an advocate for others. Grace reveals the traumatic experiences she faced growing up in a challenging environment, including the impact of her mother's struggles with addiction and the violence she witnessed. A significant focus of the discussion is on the importance of speaking out against molestation and the need for support systems for survivors. Grace emphasizes that healing is a personal journey, and she stresses the necessity of finding trustworthy individuals to confide in, especially for those who feel alone in their trauma. Throughout the episode, she also touches on her work with youth in the foster care system and her commitment to helping others navigate their mental health challenges.

Chapters:

• 00:07 - Real Life vs. Illusions
• 07:50 - The Turning Point: Uncovering the Past
• 14:00 - The Turning Point: Understanding Trauma and Consequences
• 36:35 - Turning Points: From Struggles to Advocacy
• 42:42 - Understanding Criminal Minds: Insights from a Therapist
• 55:01 - The Complexity of Mental Health and Accountability
• 01:09:40 - Exploring Mental Health and Substance Abuse

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Real life stars.

It ain't real life.

Real life street stars.

You know what time it is.

Real life street stars.

Y'all put your hands together.

Let's go.

We got it back.

It's very few times where we have someone on the couch and then, you know, there's a story there that we like.

Now we have to bring this person back and get, you know, the story in which there was a story that we just barely.

Barely scratched the surface.

So, Grace, welcome back.

Thank you.

You were in the Terence Gangsta interview.

That, of course, is still out.

Y'all go watch that right now.

But again, you started off to where you were speaking a little bit about your history.

We like, whoa, there's something there that we want to kind of get to know.

So for those that do, of course, want to hear your story, can you go and reintroduce yourself and tell them where you're from?

Okay, so I am Grace, known as the therapist to Terrence Gangsta Williams.

Yeah.

Thank you for having me on.

I am originally from Cali.

Moved from Cali to Ohio.

Ohio to Texas.

My bad.

That better be a whole, whole conversation about where you from.

All right, so what part of California are you speaking of?

South Central la.

Oh, what?

Around what age did you grow up?

Is this the boys and hood era?

I was born and raised there, so I moved there.

I moved from there as a teenager.

All right, so let's go through that, man.

I was born.

I was born and raised there.

I grew up in Five Dudes Hoover against the crip area.

Okay, okay.

So did you gangbang?

No, I didn't gangbang, but my family did.

Well, you wanted like, the girls.

Is that like, they like you?

This life ain't for you where they live?

Kind of, sort of.

Yeah.

They don't want to pull you in.

Yeah, kind of, sort of.

All right, so let's do it like this then, man.

Tell us about your upbringing.

What was your family dynamic as far as mother, father, sisters, brothers who stayed with you just in case?

Okay, so I have older siblings, and younger.

I'm kind of like the middle.

I am a daddy's girl, so I'm his only child, but I had other siblings.

We all had different fathers.

It was good.

My father was a businessman, so I grew up having everything.

And then when my mom and dad separated, my mom started.

She met a dude that hustled.

He was like a kingpin, and he put her on.

So then she went from hustling.

I, you know, experienced all of that to prostituting and trying her own product and getting hooked on crack cocaine.

This your mama for over 20 years, yes.

When did that start?

What age was she?

Oh, my.

It was well in like the 80s and early 90s.

You know what I mean?

I can't remember what age she was, but yeah, she was.

My mother had me when she was 25 and my dad was like 44.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

So you're saying she actually got put on the blade first?

She went out there and started.

No, what happened first?

You said drugs happened.

Drugs happened first.

So my mother, you know, we had it all, big homes, all of that with my dad, you know.

But like I said, when my father and my mom separated, then my mother met a man and was introduced to the drug game, you know.

And so then my older brother, who's like five years older than me, he started selling dope at like 16, 17 for like OGs.

He got knocked and did 10 years.

Damn.

Was that like the thing from when you were growing up in la?

Is that like just the only thing you kind of saw?

Just the drug game?

The game?

Oh, yeah.

It's kind of like all I knew at the time.

Yeah.

I mean, that's funny because, you know, of course, we're from Texas.

For you, how bad was.

Like, we're just so.

We're to the point where like crackheads is walking down the street and you just see like open transactions.

Like, why you just.

Let me tell you, walking home or you, you would see that you would be in drive by shootings, you know, like you would have to hit the ground walking home from school.

It was real.

Yeah, it was real.

Like I would see the Battle Ram.

I don't know if y'all familiar with the Battle Ram.

Back in the day, they would.

It's like an army tank.

Yeah, yeah.

They got the long thing.

They take the door off and.

Yeah, so that's really what was going on in the neighborhood.

How many drive bys would you say you just heard or you were around?

Oh, my God, many.

Sometimes at night, sometimes walking to school, walking from school.

That's just.

It was the norm, unfortunately.

It's sad, but it was like you already knew, like just hit the ground if you in the house, you know, to just hit the ground, you know, I had cousins that would rob jewelry stores.

And my little brother, now, he caught up.

Right now he's just.

He was making counterfeit money a while back, but then he gotta do it.

Yeah.

And you know, he.

He grew up on a drug, baby, adhd, all of that, you know, he Was smoking with my mom, actually.

Real talk.

So how's your mom now?

If you don't mind me.

She's deceased.

She's deceased now.

What?

Condolences.

What was the cause?

Was it.

I think what it was?

Well, she originally died.

She had two forms of cancer, so she had liver cancer and, like, something with the blood, to be honest.

Are you serious?

I'm not lying.

My mother didn't raise me.

Raise me like that.

Wow.

I mean, I was with her and then not with her.

My mother was.

It was to the point where my mom would be like, prostituting, right?

She'd be like, oh, I don't know if y'all remember paper, food stamps.

They had to look the color, like green, brown, you know, like, you know, like, it got so bad.

It was to that point where what we normally were used to living in a big house and all of that.

When my dad, you know, and my mom separated, it was like we went to the hood and we were not used to that.

So when our other siblings would see us, they'd like, oh, they bougie.

They think they all of that because they live over here on this side.

But then when things went left, it was like we had to, you know, move in with family members.

And I saw everything.

I'm talking about the rats, the roaches, the drug transactions, the sex, you know, my mom, at one point, she was so strung out, she was turning a trick.

And literally, I was in the bed while they were having sex.

How old were you at this time?

Probably about nine, ten.

Yeah, man.

You were in the bed while your mom.

I'm playing sleep while my mom was turning the trick.

Like, yeah, dad, that'll fuck somebody up, man.

I ain't gonna lie to you.

Did that mess you up mentally?

I mean, what is that?

Cause you're old, you're of age.

Were you kinda.

I was of age to where I knew.

I mean, you know, I knew that that wasn't cool.

You're not supposed to be doing that and your kid is right here, you know, But I didn't understand it at the time, like, why a person would do that.

It wasn't until I got.

I became of age myself and started studying addiction and things like that that I was able to heal and forgive and understand addiction.

Like, addiction will make you sell your kids.

It will.

You know what I mean?

Like, so it wasn't until years later that I, you know, do you Classify.

Addiction as a disease.

Oh, yeah.

It is a disease.

I do believe.

Let me tell you.

It is a disease.

Not only do I know that because of the mental health arena, you know, but I actually went through drug and alcohol classes myself.

To be the case, you know, I never.

I'm not.

I've never done drugs or anything in my life.

I don't even like cigarettes or none of that.

But as a teenager, you know, you try to smoke a little weed here and there.

Yeah, but see, you ever try it?

Yeah, I tried to smoke, yeah.

Yeah, but, you know, that's not for me.

I've even drank.

It ain't for me.

I got caught up even trying to drink.

But none of it's for you?

No, I'm cool.

My whole energy without, you know, being inebriated, I'm good.

You know, I'm high off life.

I ain't knocking nobody for what they do, but that's not for me.

I.

Just checking.

All right, so let's go ahead and do it like this because, you know, you went into a story.

We're gonna get some more background about you.

But I want to start with the story that you spoke on, and I kind of want to go all the way through it.

You said that, of course, there was a situation where you had to take someone's life.

Yeah.

And it was for molestation or your molester, first of all.

Can you give us a history of the background between you and the assailant?

Yeah, yeah.

So again, when my mom moved us in with family members, and my mom was out there just in the streets prostituting, she would be like, you know what, y'all?

I'm about to go to the store.

We wouldn't see her for, like, 30 days.

We'd be driving, and we'll see her on Figaroa.

I don't know if y'all are hip to Figueroa in California, but we'll see her.

So by the time we circle back around the block, she running.

We don't see her no more till, like, months later.

So when she would come around, you know, and have the men in and out and turn tricks, she's bringing different people in and out.

The guy that, when that happened, the guy that did that to me, my father hired him and my little brother's father as their lawn.

As our lawn care people.

Okay.

So.

So then my mom started messing with him, and then he started messing with me.

And over a period of time, you know, telling my mom and her not really.

I'm not going to say In a space, mentally.

Because sometimes I think it's a thing of.

They just don't believe you or they don't want to accept it.

But when drugs are involved, it makes it more amplified.

She's not in the right mind to make informed decisions for me, to even advocate for me.

So over a period of time and it happened and, you know, me being scared and I'm sorry.

No, please take your time, please.

Yeah, I got tired, and it got to the point where I'm like, I'm gonna take matters in my own hand.

I mean, I didn't think it wasn't, like, premeditated, like, you know, like that, but it was.

I got tired.

Like, you ain't fondling.

You ain't about to put.

It was to the point where dude was sticking, like, things inside of me.

Yeah.

Can I ask.

That's what I was gonna saying.

If you feel comfortable with speaking on it.

Because most people, old women, young girls, sometimes they don't know what molestation looks like.

They don't know the signs of when it starts.

They may think of a person just.

Hey, they just rub on the leg.

That's just.

Oh, maybe they're being attentive.

And then it could go into something else.

What was it for you?

Like, how did it start for you?

Was it something immediate or was it something gradual that you just didn't kind of see what was going on?

How old were you?

It was gradual, I will say that, because, you know, after a while and looking back, it was like the brushes up against the.

You know, if you're walking one way and I'm walking one way, it's kind of like, you know, or complimenting, you know, to me, a man shouldn't be telling a little girl, like, you know, you're so beau, you know, like, it's just.

It's little weird things that maybe in that moment, I didn't realize, but over a period of time, and then it was like, you know, literally got bold with it and taking my hand and me groping him and stroking him and, you know, him touching me.

And you would grope him as well.

Him making me do those things.

Yeah.

You know, and then it got to the point where it was like.

It wasn't penetration, but it was sticking objects inside of me and, you know, wanting to take p.

You know, just.

Just.

It was different things.

And so you're in a.

You're in a home, Correct.

And you have your own room, or.

I.

Oh, yeah, okay.

You have your own room.

Who's in the house?

Like, who at the time, you know, again, family members are in the house.

But it started out with me being kind of, like, embarrassed.

And then when I finally made the outcry, it was like my mom didn't believe me, you know?

And it's like, because I was always thick as a little girl, like, I'm gonna be real.

Like, I was kind of thick for my age.

Kind of like, you know, you see some 16 or 15, 12, 13, then they look more developed.

I had boobs at that age.

I had started my period, you know, and things like that.

So I was developed already kind of.

And she would say, your ass just fast, you know, like, oh, your little titties is going.

You know, that's because you letting touch on your titties.

You know, stuff like that.

And it was like, well, dang, you know, so how am I supposed to go about it?

So then when I did finally say it, it was like, you lying, you know, type of thing.

Since that's happened, in.

Being that your psychiatrist.

Have you studied.

I'm a reason.

Have you studied the reasons why mothers don't believe their children?

Well, let me say this, and this is real talk, okay?

I caught a case as an adult in another state before I moved to Texas.

So my lawyers at the time used alcohol.

I had to go through drug and alcohol treatment.

Right.

I had to do six weeks and then 10 weeks recovery.

And I had never done drugs, but my lawyers used that to help beat the case.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Like, real talk.

Yeah.

I got papers.

But my lawyers use that to help beat the case.

How did it help beat the law?

Let me say.

They said that I was under the influence when it happened or whatever.

That was just.

Yeah.

So I had to go through drug and alcohol classes.

And I shared this story on another platform.

But what I learned is because when it originally happened, I was like, I ain't supposed to be in here with these crackheads and these dope fiends and these pill heads.

And, you know, you had nurses in there that had lost their license because they were still in the prescription pads and they were writing prescriptions, and then they start taking Percocets.

And so people, we.

It was all kind of people.

It was professional people in the class.

But in my mind, I'm like, what?

I ain't supposed to be in here?

And what happens is you get like, a sponsor or a counselor, right?

And I would sit in the sessions and I wouldn't talk because I'm like, I'm not supposed to be here.

I'm better than this, you know.

But what I've learned as I began to go and it was ordered through the courts and I was on probation and all of that, what I learned was that I think that God put me there for a reason.

To understand what I went through as a kid and addiction.

And I didn't understand it at the time.

I wasn't able to put it together because I was just angry, like, you know, for something that I made the choice to do, and then they used that.

But I know now, looking back, that it was for that reason.

It was because it was necessary for me to start the healing process, to understand addiction, to understand that there were times when things may have gone on in our lives that, you know, my mom wasn't in a position to reason because of crack cocaine, man.

So let me ask when you were being.

Cause the guy.

This is your mom's boyfriend.

It was a Mexican guy.

A Mexican guy.

Would it be a situation where you're sleep and then he comes on in or you're woke and he tells you, hey, let's go to your room or something?

No, mind you, he was our lawn care.

He was one of the.

Yeah, he worked for my now little brother's dad at the time.

Yeah, he would.

You know how, like, say you have a business and you bring your workers, right.

To cut the grass.

He was our lawn.

So when he would come through.

And then it got to the point where my mom started cheating with who is now my little brother's father.

So now they all come and hang out.

They drink in Mickey's.

There's a beer called Mickey, a little green bottle.

Yeah, yeah, they drinking Mickey's.

And, you know, so he would come around.

It was that like, okay, I'm gonna go to the bathroom, or I'm gonna lure you in here and I'm gonna.

You know, and that type of thing.

And it was like, okay, enough is enough.

Were you, like, during this thing, during this assault each time, were you, like, mentally blocking it out?

Like, were you, like, taking yourself to another place?

Or were you just, like, not even understanding what's going on?

At one point, I think it started out and I was like, you know, I know this shouldn't be happening.

You know, and then it went from.

I went through different phases over the time of it happening.

It went from.

Maybe in the beginning, I didn't really realize it, you know, being young and just.

But then it was like, well, I don't know if this ain't supposed to happen.

He shouldn't be telling Me this.

And he shouldn't be complimenting me, and he shouldn't be brushing up against me.

He shouldn't be trying to have me touch on him.

You know, Then it went from that to being fearful and then that to being angry.

So the last stage was like, oh, I'm gonna get you.

So did you tell anybody else besides your mom that this was going on?

I told my mom.

No, I told my mom.

You didn't have any at that time.

I told my mom.

So, like, did you have any, like, friends around?

No.

Let me tell you this.

Most of the people in my family on my father's side at that time were all either on drugs.

Like, I didn't see any healthy anything.

I'm gonna.

Just be real.

I didn't see any healthy anything other than my father.

And when my father left, he ended up getting with a Hispanic lady.

And he was.

I was.

He was still in my life.

You know what I mean?

But at times, he went away, you know, but.

And then he would come back, he would get me on the weekends, and he would, you know, and even scared at one point to tell my father.

I felt like if I told my father, we kind of, like, disappoint him, hurting him, would he believe me?

My mom already kind of, you know, don't believe me type of thing.

So, yeah, it was different stages.

I will say that last stage was.

The anger, the anger stage.

So take us through that.

Because when you say enough is enough, in my mind, were you already, like.

Was it like, you were like, he asked earlier.

Were you plotting it?

Were you like, if he comes back around me again, enough is enough, or kind of take us through that moment where you're like, that's.

We're not doing this together.

Yeah.

No, it wasn't like, okay, on Tuesday, when he come, I'm gonna get him.

It was more in the moment.

Like, you know, of course I thought, like, angry, you know, like, I want to retaliate.

But it wasn't like, well, when he come back next time, I'm gonna do this.

Because honestly, before it got to that point, he had did it a few times, like, you already done.

And it's like, you're kind of like.

I'm like, I'm.

Yeah, it's building up.

It's building up.

At this point, I'm feeling nasty.

I'm feeling, you know, all kind of things.

As a little girl, it's okay.

I'm gonna say from like, 11 and a half to, like, 12 almost.

Because by the time that happened and I actually went to the whole court process and all of that.

I was, like, almost 13.

And then it went on.

So with that being said, the day it happened, can you kind of walk us through the day of just what took place?

So the day that it happened?

And here's the thing.

Some people will say that it was premeditated, but honestly, I didn't just say, okay, I'm going to get you on this day.

But the day that it happened, I was just tired.

I was fed up.

And some people would say, oh, well, she blacked out, you know, but.

And let me.

Let me go back, because I know I said the 39 times.

Not all.

It is 30.

It was 39.

It was 39 stab wounds.

I think somebody said it may have been Terrence, that that was overkill.

That.

That was like.

I think.

I think he said, oh, or one of y'all said on the seventh time, he probably was already gone.

Yeah, that's where I was at with it.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Like.

Yeah, but.

But no, not all 39.

You can get stabbed and did not cut an artery or a main.

You know, so not all 39 was just, like, through the thing.

But it was.

When the court.

When it all came out, it was 39 times.

39 stab wounds.

39 different stab wounds.

But the one that actually did it was.

Took him out.

It was.

Nah, it was in the heart.

Yeah.

So what that you said, walk you through what happened.

Yeah, just a day of.

Were you expecting to see him this day?

And then if you weren't seeing him, did, you know, all right, he's about to try something?

It was more so when I see this person, I know they gonna try it because, like, it went from not just him cutting our grass and doing the landscaping to him hanging out with my brother, my little.

Which is now my little brother's father, and, like, coming over and drinking and they partying and they play.

I don't know if y'all are hip to a game called Poquino back in the day.

It's like these little, you know, and just kind of, like, hanging out.

So in my mind, I'm like, you know, you build up that fear, like, okay, it's probably gonna happen.

You know what I mean?

Do you keep, like.

And mind you, I'm asking, because the weapon that was used, was it a kitchen knife?

It was a knife.

I mean, from the kitchen or like this one you keep in your room, like a blade?

No, it was a knife from out the kitchen.

So it was to the point where it's like, okay, I gotta go to the bathroom.

Yeah.

And then I'm like, are people home?

Like, let me tell you, they were home.

They were partying, they were drinking and things like that.

So then when it happened, I came out bloody, of course.

Where were you?

The bathroom.

Your room or.

No, it was in my room.

I told him I had to go to the bathroom, but I went to get the knife and I went back to my room.

Yeah.

And was he laying?

And I got him.

Is he looking at you?

No, he was looking at me.

It was like, close the door.

You know, I'm like, oh, close the door.

Okay, yeah, I'm gonna close the door.

All right.

You know, and everybody partying, drinking, you know, back then, too.

I'm tell you this.

Like, my mom.

When my mother passed away, my sister said that my mom said she had done everything but been with a white poodle with bows in her hair.

Like, my mother used to go both ways.

I didn't know that at the time.

I found out that, like, yeah, like, as an adult and.

But my mama used to party.

When I tell you cocaine, like, the house was the party house after, you know, my dad and my mom said party, but it was like, the party house.

And that's what went on.

Drinking, smoking, gambling, playing pokino, cooking.

It was a party house.

What time of day this incident took place?

Like, was it in the evening?

In the evening.

So still, like, not too late.

I can't remember the time, but it was in the evening.

Like, not the exact time.

But I do know it was in the evening because I know they were partying.

They were partying.

So let me ask you.

So it was in the evening, did.

He put up a fight?

Like, when you, like, did you walk back in and go straight?

Did you say something or.

He said, close the door.

I do remember he said, close the door and to lay down.

And I had already put the knife, you know, like, concealed the knife or whatever.

And he told me to lay down.

And I was like, I didn't want to lay down.

You know what I mean?

And he was like, lay down, Hurry.

And he turned me around.

And then.

Did he.

Yeah.

Did he put up a fight?

He did.

And let me tell you this.

I didn't just go straight stabbing him, like, in his chest.

Let me clear that up.

It wasn't like.

Yeah, no, because people be.

No, that.

That wasn't.

No, but that was.

And when you say the word stab, was it more.

So you were trying to cut at first, like, I'm just trying to.

No, I was trying to.

I'm trying to stab.

I'm trying to stab.

But I think at that age, too, I wasn't thinking like that.

I would actually, like, I wasn't thinking that he was gonna die.

Put it like that.

I mean, you know, you got to think when you scared and when you're fearful and when your back is against the wall and you don't feel protected already.

You know, the people that were supposed to keep me safe, they did not.

They failed at keeping me safe, you know, so it wasn't like, I'm gonna kill you.

It was more like, I'm gonna hurt you.

In my mind, not thinking that that would kill him eventually.

And was he a small guy, tall guy?

No, he was like short, little Mexican, kind of chunky dude, you know, he was.

He was.

He was short and kind of probably like.

Terence.

No.

So how did it feel after you did this?

What was your first emotion?

You know what, to be honest, I don't.

I don't remember feeling like.

I can't tell you right here in this moment, like, oh, I felt like this, or I felt one particular thing first.

I think it was more like shock.

Like, I didn't think that he was gonna die.

Did you?

I didn't think that it would be a domino effect of things.

He walked out the room.

Um, he was just there and laying there with the blood.

So I did not know death until after when people came and the police.

And then, you know, and then I went out to where the adults were and I'm bleeding and I'm like.

And they like, oh, my God, what happened?

You know, type of thing.

And then they go in there and it's like they trying to, you know, see if he is alive or whatever.

And then it's like when they come back out, I'm like, okay, he ain't moving.

You know what I mean?

Now, that's in an 11 year old mind, though.

You see what I'm saying?

So think of when y'all, if you were 11, your mentality and your thought process at an 11 year old.

I'm speaking now as a 47 year old.

That happened so long ago.

Some things I have purposely had to put away in order to move on in life.

Because if I stay there, I will stay traumatized.

I would not be able to go any further in life, you know what I mean?

I wouldn't be able to do the work that I do.

But I use some of my story to tell people like this is real.

You know, being sexually assaulted and molested or raped or from.

For a man or a woman is not okay.

And there are consequences that come with it if you take matters into your own hand.

And there are times when, as a teenager, on up until like, early 20s, I carried that.

I carried that, you know, I carried that on me, not understanding, not giving myself the grace to be.

Like I was a kid.

They were supposed to protect me, you know, people.

I took matters into my own hand, but I shouldn't have had to, is my point.

If the adults were there to really protect me, I wouldn't have had to do that.

And so then I ended up in the system.

And then it was a domino effect of things, you know, I was gonna.

Ask you, so after that, where did it go?

You come outside, the police are out.

There, they end up calling Netherlands police.

All you see is sirens and all of that.

And so then, yeah, you know, I'm not sure if you all are familiar, like in California there.

Well, now, let me tell you all this, too.

As of last year, and I think June, a lot of states have done away with the criminal justice, the juvenile jails.

I don't know if y'all are familiar with that, because it does more damage than good, is what people were saying.

So many other states, you know, they may have, like, one big one where they operate, and most of the offenders go there, but they have shut down a lot of the juvenile halls or wards.

Now they try to say that they're like gladiator schools or they have educational training programs, and it's geared more towards rehabilitation, not just locking the child down.

And they don't really know the detriment or what they have caused.

You know, they don't understand that at 10, 11, and then you can only enter that system at, like, 12 and a half, 13 years old.

Between 12 and 13, on up to 24, 25.

So, yeah, it was just a domino effect of things.

And, you know, being there until the case was, you know, finalized and things like that.

It was a lot.

It was a lot.

It was a lot.

Did they put you in, like, solitary confinement and things like that?

No.

No.

What was that as a kid, as you walked out there and you were bleeding, or not bleeding, but you had blood on you.

I had blood on my blood.

Adults are like, what the hell?

The police come.

What do they do to you?

I mean, as a child, do they do anything to you?

Are you scared now?

I am scared.

Oh, of course I'm scared.

I'm shaking.

You Know, at this point I'm.

All the people that were there, of course, have been drinking and stuff, you know, but then the adult has to then stand in the gap and come and, you know, give a statement and do all of that.

So we went through that whole process and I can remember very vividly that even then I didn't feel protected.

And I don't know, let me say this.

My little brother.

Well, not my little brother, my older brother, he's five years older than me.

The one I said he called a case.

You know, he started selling dope for older old school dudes at like 16.

He had never ever been to prison, never even been to jail.

So when he got caught, the feds, they were watching him.

They came in as the utility people.

They had him tap.

Yeah, they had to, all of that.

So he did 10 years.

My mother never fought for him.

He.

She never got him a lawyer like this.

The he.

He.

She never fought for him.

And I don't know, you know, in my mind as a mom, I'm a fight.

I'm going to go to jail or hell for my kids.

Jail or hell.

Bring it.

So.

And that's.

That's real talk.

I mean that.

Yeah.

And you.

So I'm assuming you explained what happened and why you did this to law enforcement.

Yeah.

Did they believe you early on?

Well, who?

The police?

Yeah, police or whoever you told.

Like, I felt like they did believe me.

I did.

I do feel like I felt.

I feel that at that time they did believe me and it worked in my favor because I'm good.

Like, I did what the time that I was supposed to do.

My records are sealed.

Like, I ended up really kind of like beating the case.

Real talk.

You supposed to do any time.

I feel like you were supposed to go back.

I did do some time.

I was a ward of the state for a while, but it was also throughout the duration of the case.

Yeah, I just feel like you should have went home.

Like you should have never.

Oh, no, I didn't just go straight home.

They have to still investigate, you know what I mean?

Yeah, they still gotta investigate and do their due diligence to make sure that it was, you know, because you do have young girls that kind of like reel men in.

And that's a real thing, like real talk.

You have young women that.

But I don't fault them solely because the adult, the adult is the one that know better.

Like these high school girls that mess with the gym teachers and the.

I don't know if you guys hear about Stories like that.

Well, yeah, yeah.

These girls are gonna be fast.

But it's the adult.

The responsible adult is the one that's supposed to keep the child safe.

Exactly.

You're the one that's supposed to have a voice of reason.

Exactly.

You know, did your mom believe you Right.

The moment it happened?

And like.

All right.

Cause now she didn't believe you at first.

But now it has come to this.

I think that at that time my mother was still under the influence.

Like, remember I said that they were partying, they doing their thing, they drinking, smoking, doing drugs.

So I don't think in that.

I think after a while it was like, damn.

After days had gone by and I'm there and then she go back home and it's like, damn, my daughter, my baby.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm the baby girl.

Like, damn, this really happened.

You know, when you sober up, that's like, if you go get a ticket for drunk driving.

Yeah.

And you, you go to jail and they let you sleep it off, you wake up like, damn, what happened?

What happened?

Yeah.

Because you.

That when you got arrested, you wasn't in the right mind frame.

Right.

Something like that.

That's the feeling that I got from that situation at that time.

So you went through a court case.

Yeah.

They guilty.

I didn't fully understand it at the time.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with like the WIC 707B codes, like the penile codes for juveniles.

So I didn't understand it at that time.

You know, it took me growing up and going through classes and anger management and I used to be on lithium pills as a kid.

You know, I used to be in counselor myself.

That's kind of what drove me to do what I do today.

You know, working with young people in the nonprofit sector, working with child and protective services.

People that know me, they know I'm a casa, which is a court appointed special advocate and I advocate for other young people.

That's in the conservatorship of CPS right now.

I used to work for ACH Child and Family Services for seven years.

I helped run the youth emergency shelter and the residential side of things, as well as I was on the clinical side of things.

Yeah.

So we talked about CPS with Charleston White.

I don't know if you've seen the interview on up down there.

So what do you think about people just being able to call CPS and just put CPS in people's lives?

You think that's.

You know, let me tell you this.

So as adults, we're all mandated.

Whether we take the oath or a permanency or CPS specialist or not, we still take that oath because we want to keep them safe, right?

We want to protect and preserve the youth.

They are the next generation.

But I think sometimes people do it out of spite and hate and they don't know the domino effect of things that it could cause for that family that you're calling on making these accusations that are not true sometimes.

So I think as adults we have to decipher like okay, what's really going on?

Is it really abuse and neglect going on or is it habitual homelessness?

Is it because.

Just because a person is homeless don't mean that they're neglecting their children.

It could be that they lost their job or that they don't get paid enough on their job, they lost their car.

It could be different things, right?

So when you call cps, you gotta really have evaluated because now they're gonna, they have to take it serious.

They have to take it serious.

And so they're doing their job, they're doing their due diligence and it's a real thing that could cause these kids to be moved and put in a home where now you gonna go get raped.

Because I've seen it now.

You done took this child, this little girl, and now she's in this respite home because that's what they call it until they're adopted out or until they're placed in a group home.

And now they're going to get fondled on.

And now you're re traumatizing.

Now you thought that they were being traumatized when they were with their family.

So now you put them here and now they might get raped by the father or the foster mom might, you know, that's a real thing.

I've seen it.

I still, I'm telling you.

So is.

Can there be situations where someone cries wolf like hey, this person is not.

This person is abusing their child but they have no evidence of it.

Should, like I know every phone call has to get taken serious, but yeah, yeah.

Are they just.

Does this sound inspired?

Like what evidence do you have to prove that this is happening?

Well, let me say this.

When the worker come out, right, the investigator they have to take into consider cause school teachers can make a report, you can come to school and you got a little bruise, you may have busted your chin.

And they're like, oh, little Johnny, how did you get that?

You know, you didn't have that yesterday.

And then you like, oh, I fail.

You know?

And then in their mind, they're like, I don't believe little Johnny, but little Johnny could be telling the truth.

So now you gonna make a hotline report, and CPS is gonna come out and see the child at school.

And then they gonna ask little Johnny all of these different questions.

And it's up to the worker to say, okay, in the report, this is what it is, or this is what is not.

And then close the case or open the case.

And then now you removed not just little Johnny, but his four siblings.

You know what I mean?

And it's crazy.

No.

Like, it's a real thing.

It's.

And it's happening more and more in our black.

With our black families, you know?

And then they talk about the reunification process to try to get the families back.

But by that time, now you need therapy because now you just sent little Johnny or little Susie somewhere and they done turned little Suzy out.

Yeah.

Charleston White said it takes a lot for them to take your kids.

Is that true?

It does.

It's not just an instant thing.

It's a process.

Unless there are physical bruises and the child is like, look, he stuck his penis in me.

Or she beat me up, or she split my.

You know.

But, yeah, the child says it.

That's mostly what they draw on.

Not just that, but they will.

It will initiate and get the ball rolling more than just the word.

Because now the person, like, you're hearing it from the victim, you know, but also, children recant their stories.

I've seen that happen where children will lie.

They get mad at mom or dad, and they, like, I'm running away.

And then, you know, the neighbor like, oh, you came over here.

Yeah, I ran away.

You know.

Oh, well, you can sleep here for the night.

Well, I'm gonna call CPS on your mama instead of calling the mom to say, hey, Monica, Monica's over here.

What's going on?

But no, you just gonna.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You just gonna take it up on your own and call cps?

That's not cool.

Yeah.

All right, well, I wanna definitely delve into, you know, again, you have such a colorful past.

You actually got into the game yourself.

I did.

Who introduced you to the game?

Who?

You know, coming from even a troubled background, troubled childhood, and you having all this, you know, gang activity, drug activity, seeing your mother, how she was.

What made you want to be able to get in the game and sell dope and do things like that, you know?

You seen your mother on it?

Yeah.

At one point, I felt like, it was all I knew, all I had been exposed to.

I mean, although, like I said, my father had a.

He was a businessman.

Actually, he was a marine.

My father was a Marine.

And so he, you know, he was a businessman, and I saw that side.

But I was with my mom's people more until I moved from California to Ohio with my father's people.

But when I stayed in Cali, that's all I knew.

You know, I didn't see really too many good examples of people getting up, going to work.

It was like, you know, I see people going to rob the jewelry store or see them hustling and, you know, see them having shootouts and gang banging, and even the girls were gang banging, you know, And I'm talking about, like, banging hard.

Like, that's what I saw.

So when I, you know, met someone and they introduced me to it, I already knew the game, and they was surprised.

Like, what, you know how to do what, you know, you know what it weigh on the scale, you know how to bag it up, you know how to cut it, you know, you know how to cook it.

Wait, who.

So who introduced you to the game?

Like, who taught you?

An older gentleman that I was kind of dating.

Okay.

I was messing with.

He wants to recruit.

You.

Said, man, you smart.

You good with your hands?

I'm good.

I'm.

I am smart and I'm very crafty.

Yeah.

So, you know, and because I already knew the streets, with us talking, he like, I'm gonna put you on.

So I started making runs, like, on the highway.

You were making money?

Like, he's seen more money than you seen at the time.

Okay, yeah, I was making money.

We had it to where, like, the whole vehicle was.

Was equipped, like, the foot, the everything.

Like, yeah, where'd you have it?

Where is it?

The footboard.

Yeah, we had it.

A few different tires, the footboards, the.

You know, so I would get me and my homegirl and we would just go, how much?

When I got up, like, up in age, like teenager, once all of that stuff was straightened with.

How much money would you say you were bringing in?

Let's just say either monthly or weekly.

Thousands, like sometimes 3, 4, $5,000.

And for me, at my age, I thought that was good.

We going to New York, we going to Atlanta, we going to Tennessee.

We, you know, Memphis.

We.

We just going.

And because we young and, you know, dumb, dumb money get to coming in good.

And then it turned into, okay, well, I'm gonna introduce you to these strippers.

Because my little sister was Stripping at the time, you know, and then she got the gift of gab and.

Okay, well, so it was kind of like an escort service, man, real quick.

While you were making your runs, I gotta ask.

Did you ever get in a situation where you got pulled over and you felt like, oh, it's about to go bad right now?

Honestly, no, man.

No.

It's like get to where you getting and get back.

And we knew the road, we knew what routes to take.

You know, we knew where the highway patrol would be, that we would do what they tell us to do and we would go and we would get it and go.

We knew the speed limit.

We knew to not panic.

Don't be crossing over the lane without, you know, we just knew.

I never did get caught up, but I almost got caught up with the whole organized crime thing with the women because they started wanting to sell themselves on Craigslist and then the undercover cop try to solicit and, you know.

But I.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, so tell us about that run.

As far as, you know, technically becoming a madam.

Technically from madam to therapist.

Yeah.

Right, right, right.

How many did you have in your stable, man?

How many girls were you trying to.

Oh, my.

At any.

At the most that we had at one time.

Like real talk, like about.

I'll say almost 30 at one time.

Because a lot of them were strippers anyway.

And then, you know, they would do private parties and then it's like they want to make sure.

And then I would be the one that kind of arranged it, got the hookup going, you know, made sure they was going to the doctor, make sure they were.

Had what they needed.

You know, a lot of them were struggling.

Real talk.

So that he would make sure that they straight too.

But yeah, that's real.

You weren't worried about, like.

I think I forgot we asked.

I think Pimp and Ken or somebody.

But we were asking about the crime that goes with that.

Like the serial killer that might be out there messing, you know, messing up the money.

Messing with me or with the women?

With the women.

Yeah.

We.

That is all that's always in the forefront of.

It should be in their mind.

But it's always in the forefront of my mind.

Yeah.

You being a woman, you know, technically it should be like, you know, you're a woman, you know, it's like it really concerns you.

Or were you like, were you like cold blooded with it?

Like, man, I don't give a fuck.

I was a fighter growing up.

Let me say this.

I used to be in a motorcycle club, shout out to uncontrollable women.

Largest female MC in Dayton, Ohio.

So I was the enforcer.

Even now.

Even now.

Even now.

I'm.

Even now.

Look, no, in terms of.

Even now, I'm licensed to carry.

Like, I'm legit.

All of that stuff is my past.

I never really did no prison time.

Childhood record is my childhood record.

I'm good.

Like, I'm good.

But, yeah, I was the enforcer in the motorcycle club.

Yeah, I was one of the enforcers.

And so even now, like, I'm a single mother out here.

Yeah, I got a whole nine millimeter.

Like, it's better to have it and not need it than need it.

And I have it.

There you go.

Period.

It's not my intent to kill nobody, but I will.

So.

So in your.

In your.

In your madam days and also in your enforcer days, you just.

You just.

You just kept it on you, huh?

You just moved around.

You just kept it on you.

Yeah, that part.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now you enforce it for real.

You enforce.

Enforce it for real.

God damn it.

And, I mean, I didn't start no fight when I said I was a fighter.

I'm not just talking about physical fight.

Like, I'm not a.

I like to look cute.

Let me clear that up.

I will fight if I have to, but I'm not the female that's about to be.

Like, I'll be.

I'm not.

I don't do no bunch of cussing.

I don't know how to do all of that.

I'm going get mad and probably some tears come out.

And then I'm in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm going to get this person.

How was the motorcycle club?

How was the mc?

You know, we see things like Sons of Anarchy, man.

Like, it goes down.

Yeah, we're going in the club, stay in the clubhouse, but we used to have cabarets.

We would see all kind of stuff.

You know, strippers, drinking, smoking, cheating, threesomes.

You know, I used to be married.

So it is what it is.

You see how it went?

Yeah.

All right, so let's build to it.

You ended up.

Of course, you're educated again.

You have your degrees.

Thank you.

You ended up, or coming to this point, becoming a mental health therapist.

Was there something in humans that you saw?

Like, man, I need to learn more about what makes us tick.

Yeah.

You know what I like?

So my first degree is in criminal justice and forensic science, So I have a degree also in criminology.

I used to do therapy with the prisoners So I love forensic science.

I love, you know, like I think when I was here we talked about snap.

I think he was like, do you ever watch those first 48?

I love that type of stuff.

I love science.

Yeah.

You know, I even thought about mortuary science at one point, but it's not enough money in that for me.

Unless I won't own a funeral home or something.

But nah.

We also interviewed a guy named by the old man, right?

He said that you can't be rehabilitated.

You're either a convict, convict or inmate.

I don't believe that.

Let me tell you, I'm walking in my redemption.

I go, I got, I'm about to go speak at a prison here in Texas, in Gainesville this month.

I speak to the youth.

My resume is extensive.

Nothing that I've done in the past am I ashamed of.

Nothing that I've done in the past have held me back.

It's life is what you make it.

If I'm dealt these cards, I'm a play em.

Like I can't play, I'm going to play them.

I'm a play em, you know, and you can either make it work for you or against you.

That's with anything.

So I believe that people can be rehabilitated.

So you talk to a lot of convicts mentally like, as for your profession, what are some of the things that like to understand the criminal mind?

Like what are some things that you hear constantly?

Are most people just crazy or is it a lot of just, you know, rush of emotion at the time to do criminal activity?

No, there are some people that are really psychopaths.

There are really some killers that have no remorse.

They don't care.

They have it in them.

They crave the blood.

They crave that power and that control and they crave.

You know how you hear people say trigger happy or not even just when it pertains to guns, like strangling a person and getting that euphoric feeling from doing that and watching their victim in the eyes.

And that's a real thing.

What type of prescription do you give a killer or something like that?

Like what is that?

They get Seroqueel, what they get.

A lot of prisoners are on seroqueel, believe it or not.

It's so many different.

Like I told y'all, I used to be on lithium.

Lithium is very strong.

I was on it as a kid, high doses as a kid.

And my grandmother used to be like, she don't need that.

I had to get therapy I had when I moved from California and went through all of that, moved with my grandmother.

I was in therapy as a teenager.

I'm talking about extremely extensive treatment to the point where I would be so scared I would sleep in the bed with my grandmother.

Wow.

Yeah, that'll do it.

So when you watch someone, like a serial killer, Ted Bundy, what's the name?

Jeffrey Dahmer.

Cutting up the people.

Yeah.

You see people do, you know, commit murder, commit, let's say, a couple murders, they get away with it.

They haven't got caught, but they have the urge to keep doing it until they get caught.

Like.

Yeah.

From what you're.

From your experience, do you feel like.

What is that urge?

Just to, like, to say, I'm 17 in.

Like, I just haven't got caught.

I got away with it.

It's like a theft, the fact that.

You got away with it.

You gotta keep doing it.

You gotta keep doing it.

That's exactly.

A lot of the times what it is, is the not getting caught.

I knew somebody that.

I don't know if y'all heard of boosters.

You know, they.

People like, let's say I knew a female who would go on Walmart or Target.

Walmart.

And Target is gonna let you keep coming back and back and back.

They're gonna be watching that security office.

They watching you because they're building their case.

So in your mind, you like, oh, girl, it was easy.

I got away with it.

It's like, no, dummy, you didn't get away.

They just building their case, and they waiting on the right time to bust you.

You know, it's the same with drug dealers.

They get too greedy.

You know, you gotta know when to fall back, when enough is enough.

They get greedy and they keep going and going and going.

And eventually you get caught.

It's because you're not getting caught originally.

So in their mind, it's that drive.

It's like, damn, I gotta do it again.

We robbed the bank.

Like, set it off.

You know, like, we robbed the bank.

We gonna go do it again.

Yeah, it was like, no, calm down.

You want to get caught?

You know, so, yeah, it's that euphoric feeling and it's the a lot.

It's the mental illness also creeping in.

It's the, you know, the imbalance, the chemical imbalance, the imbalance in the brain as well.

You know, I at one point studied the brain, you know, the amygdala and things like that, you know?

So being a therapist or talking to convicted killers, can you tell when you're talking to a killer?

Not necessarily.

Because let me tell you, people are slick with it, right?

And you.

You know, when you think of these criminals, they gonna say whatever they got to say to reel you in.

And me being a woman.

Oh, yeah.

They gonna try me every time.

So let's.

Let's go to Terrence, right?

Let's use him as an example.

Like, he.

He doesn't come off as a killer, but some dark inside him that.

Do y'all really believe that?

Because I know we talked about that the last time people say he don't show remorse.

I believe that.

When I look at Terrence, I see someone who wants to, you know, do better in living society and stuff, but I can definitely look at Terrence.

And I've had partners that are.

Yeah, like, I can see Terrence killing.

He's a killer.

You know what I'm saying?

So, I mean, we all got it in us, right?

I think I said that the last time.

You have your back against the wall.

What you gonna do?

Yeah, you gonna do something.

You may not.

The intent may not be to kill, but you gonna fight your way up out of it, right?

It's gonna be either me or you.

So with Terrence, you know, I think because he's so confident in who he is, and he's a Muslim, and he has already asked for forgiveness.

So why do I gotta keep walking in the past, right?

I'm walking in my redemption, right?

And if people can't accept that, that's their problem, not his.

You know, I don't owe nobody else nothing but Allah.

That's just the way I look at it.

Yeah.

I think Terrence, I think he just deals with, like, an absolution for his problems.

You know?

Like, here he goes.

He, like, did I hear my name?

Let's finish.

Like, if it's a problem, I want to see it all the way to the end of that problem.

I don't want to.

I don't want no problem.

Don't tell me something I don't want.

No problem keep creeping back up on me.

Do you feel like.

Let me ask you this mentally.

So we talking about Terrence?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, like, some people, they, like, you went through your situation.

You felt.

And I don't know if you meant to kill your assailant, but that is probably for you to go grab that knife.

You're like, the absolution to fix this problem is.

Has to end.

You got to know I'm serious.

And I'm tired.

It wasn't necessarily, like, I'm going to kill him.

Like right now, it was, I'm going to stop him.

He just happened to die.

Okay.

I'm gonna say Kristoppy could make it.

Like, okay, I'm gonna come back.

You know, like, he just happened to die, man.

So from my, from what I did, he just, he happened to die.

It wasn't like, oh, I'm about to go kill him today.

It was, he happened to die from me stabbing him.

Do you ever have the urge to see when they have like a mass shooting to mentally get in the mind of the mass shooters?

There was a guy in Las Vegas who was rich, old, old guy, been plotting to do this mass killing.

And the police are baffled because they still looking at his life, going through his history and there's no manifesto for him there.

There's nothing that's led to, like, why he would want to do this.

Do you, when you see things like that or, you know, the guy shoots up a school, do you mentally want to understand why?

Yeah, I do that.

I am so analytical.

That drives me, like, seriously, I do.

I like stuff like that because it makes me wonder, like, well, what happened and when there is no evidence.

But that goes to show you you can be around a person for years and still not know the person.

People look at me and they be like, even when we were here, Katrise.

Was like, yeah, you just like, what?

They had it on that clip.

She was like 39 times.

And he said something and she was like, he shouldn't have been touching her.

You know, and, you know.

But see, you can't always judge a book by its cover.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, you can't.

But, yeah, I love stuff like that.

I love forensics.

I love the scientific part of it.

I love the mind of.

I love criminology.

Like, I'm very good when it comes to that.

So I do always feel like, you know, prisoners should have mental health therapists, but also like police because, you know, I think they need to be evaluated almost on a yearly basis.

Are they fit to still do this job?

Yeah, they are evaluated.

You didn't know that?

They're not just evaluated when my daughter's boyfriend is about to be a cop.

They're not just evaluated when they first joined the force.

It is a continual thing now.

What I noticed that different departments have been implementing is that they have a mental health therapist on the force, on the team.

They have a thing where, like, if you, you know, back in the day, people would have a manic episode and they'll be out, you know, waving the knife and the police just shoot them.

So now you have somebody that.

Cause I thought about doing this like real talk.

Now you have a mental health therapist on the team that knows how to de escalate the situation without using force.

So they're trained in trauma, informed care and things like that so that they can reach them without using deadly force.

Or, you know, I see mental health therapists, are they.

Is their job to evaluate someone or is it a job to fix someone?

Fix that problem?

Well, you both.

I mean, it's not a fix.

It's to give them the tools that they need to.

Yes, thank you.

Yes.

Because I can't fix anyone.

You have to be willing to learn and unlearn.

And I give homework assignments.

I say, okay, at our next session, you know, I want you to tell me how that worked for you.

And then you know what's going on.

So in our group, in our sessions, we talk about those things.

I can't fix them.

I can only give them the tools and the resources that they need to make them better in those areas.

There's a difference between counseling and therapy.

Counseling is more short term, goal specific.

Therapy is more long term, and it covers a variety of things.

So you do feel therapy does help, like 100%.

You gotta work it though.

I mean.

Yeah, you gotta work it.

Cause I get clients, they be like, they don't want to.

You feel like everyone should at least have some type of therapist.

Yeah, I have a therapist and I'm a therapist and I see a therapist.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And I'm not ashamed of it, you know, because life will get the life in and I'm human, you know.

That's very good.

Yeah.

So I see a lot of people also using mental health illness as a cop out.

Do you feel like they sometimes use that?

Oh, it's like sometimes it might.

I mean, I'm.

In my opinion, it might not be mental health.

It's like literally, I like, I guess when you say I'm just fucked up, it is mental.

But people, I think they know it's not a mental illness.

I'm just going out here doing this cognitively that I know what the hell I'm doing.

I think that some people are weak.

Let me just be real with you.

I think that a lot of people use it as a crutch or a handicap.

They allow it to handicap them.

And it's not mental.

They haven't been diagnosed.

They're almost diagnosing themselves.

And it's like, no, you're not mentally ill.

You're just lazy as fuck.

You're not mentally ill.

You just need to get your shit together.

You're not mentally ill.

You need to have a little more tough skin because the things that our parents may have gone through.

I'm older than y'all, but, you know, a lot of these people wouldn't even be able to walk a mile in their shoes.

They'll buckle, they'll coward out.

It's like I be wanting to say, get your shit together.

What's the problem?

Like, get a grip.

But I don't negate the fact that mental health is real before people come at.

Come for me in the comments.

Mental health is real.

It's real and it's important and, you know, all of those good things that we know.

But there are times when it's not a mental illness.

You know, it's like, oh, woe is me.

It's like, really?

You know, I can't do this.

Well, why?

Why not?

You know, that's what I said.

That's what I said.

So also you.

I want to touch on all your gifts.

You know, you also got into real estate as well.

Yeah, I graduated.

I finished real estate school last year in April, and then I went and got.

I took the exam.

Keller Williams is my broker, I must say.

Are you going further and further into it?

I do property preservation also.

So, like, with the department of.

Well, hud, we all know what it's hood, fha, mva.

You get contracts with the banks and things like that.

So I do have a property management team.

Company.

More management.

Yeah.

You know, it's crazy because, you know, again, we had you in here, you evaluated Terrence Gangster, and we're like, man, I think mental health is, you know, when I.

When I look at what he kind of got through, I look at us, I look at everyone else out here.

I do feel your job is necessary.

For those who have not ever seen a mental health therapist, what are.

Like, what.

What can they expect when they go in their first session?

What can they expect if they go look for a mental health therapist?

Like, because some people might just be like, man, I don't.

I'm good.

I don't need nobody.

Yeah, yeah.

What can they expect when they go in there?

Okay, well, first of all, let me say, you can't heal what you don't reveal first.

So a lot of the times people may have an issue and don't know it and may take their best friends or their loved ones to say, look, bro, or, look, sis, I noticed that you've been Acting like this, you know, why don't you seek some help, you know, that type of thing?

Or you may have those that are fearful because they don't know what to expect.

Or they may feel like, I'm not crazy, you know, I can't let the boys know I'm in therapy.

What, I'm a man, you know, and even with women, you know, nah, I'm okay, you know, but in the first.

The consultation in the first few sessions is more of me getting to know them, seeing what it is that they have gone through, what they need and how I can.

How I can write up the plan to help them be successful.

So, yeah, that's pretty much a lot of getting to know one another, establishing the rapport and writing out some goals.

You know, should black men go to black men therapists go to black women?

Should white people talk to a black therapist?

Should black people talk to a white therapist?

Should you want someone of that looks like you been through what you've been through, be your mental health therapist?

I hear a lot of people say that they would prefer, but I don't think that that plays a part in the healing process.

Because just because I look like you don't mean that I can resonate with you.

You know what I mean?

You go with what works for you.

And if you get one that is not a good match, because that happens a lot of the times, then you continue your search, you know, you say, these are the things that I need.

So we were in a session, of course I say, well, you know, get to know you, right?