The episode presents a thorough examination of the evolution of defensive strategies in American football, with a particular focus on the tactics employed for fumble recovery. Speaker A, in conversation with Timothy P. Brown, articulates the fundamental premise of modern defensive play: to neutralize offensive threats by regaining possession of the football. The dialogue illuminates the historical context of fumble recoveries, tracing back to the early days of football when defenses had the opportunity to advance recoveries, a practice rooted in the sport's rugby ancestry.

A salient point of discussion is the pivotal rule instituted in 1929 that restricted defenses from advancing fumbles, thereby altering the tactical considerations for both offenses and defenses. This modification not only impacted gameplay but also instigated a cultural perception shift regarding the act of 'stealing' the ball. The episode explores the implications of this rule change, highlighting how it led to the development of a new vocabulary surrounding defensive actions and how certain maneuvers were judged in terms of sportsmanship. Anecdotes regarding players like Chuck Taylor serve to exemplify the evolution of athleticism and the admiration for players who showcased remarkable skill in recovering fumbles and scoring.

Furthermore, the conversation delves into the historical significance of various plays, notably the hook and lateral, and discusses how its recognition has evolved over time. The narrative elaborates on the return to allowing defenses to advance fumbles in college football, marking a significant shift that resonates with earlier practices and embodies a return to a more fluid and dynamic style of play. This exploration of both historical and contemporary football dynamics invites listeners to engage with the sport on a deeper level, fostering a greater appreciation for the intricate relationship between rules, strategies, and the ethos of American football. Through this discourse, the episode not only informs but also enriches the listener's understanding of the game as a historical and cultural phenomenon.

Takeaways:

• Modern football defenses aim to thwart offensive plays primarily by reclaiming possession of the ball.
• Tim Brown elucidates historical strategies employed by defenses to recover fumbles effectively.
• The podcast explores the evolution of football rules regarding the advancement of fumbles by defenses over the years.
• A significant rule change in 1929 prohibited defenses from advancing fumbles, altering game dynamics substantially.
• Historically, the act of 'stealing the ball' from an opponent was considered unsportsmanlike conduct during early football.
• The term 'scoop and score' emerged in the 1990s, marking a shift in defensive strategies in college football.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Tim Brown
• footballarchaeology.com
• Darrin Hayes
• pigskindispatch.com
• University of Pennsylvania
• Chuck Taylor
• Web Eubank
• Boise

Join us at the Pigskin Dispatch website to see even more Positive football news!

Don't forget to check out and subscribe to the Pigskin Dispatch YouTube channel for additional content and the regular Football History Minute Shorts.

Miss our football by the day of the year podcasts, well don't, because they can still be found at the Pigskin Dispatch website.

We know by today's standards that modern defenses, their objective is to stop the offense.

Well, the best way to do that is to take the ball from them.

We have some early ways explained by Tim Brown how defenses tried to get that ball back.

It's all coming up with Tim in just a moment.

This is the Pigskin Daily History Dispatch, a podcast that covers the anniversaries of American football events throughout history.

Your host, Darrin Hayes, is podcasting from America's North Shore to bring you the memories of the gridiron one day at a time.

Before we get into our episode today, let's take the time to drill that football right into the like and subscribe button on your console so you know exactly when the notifications come up of the latest releases of Pigskin Dispatch podcast for some more great football history.

Now, on to our episode.

Hello, my football friends.

This is Darren Hayes of pigskindispatch.com welcome.

Once again to the Pig Pen, your.

Portal deposit of football history.

And welcome to another evening where we get to enjoy a talk with Timothy p. Brown of footballarchaeology.com to go over some.

Some great football history.

Tim, welcome back to the Pig Pen.

Darren, good to see you.

And I don't want to steal your thunder, but I'm gonna steal your thunder here.

Gonna steal my.

I'm not going to tell you how I'm gonna do it.

I'm just telling you that I'm gonna.

Well, it's like a.

It's like a punch right in the mouth there, Tim.

You know, you saying that to me.

So you got a puncher's chance at, or keeping up with me on this one.

All right, well, we'll end these punch lines that we're so poorly doing because we're trying to segue into a recent article that Tim wrote called A Puncher's Chance to Recover Fumbles.

Tim, what can you tell us about this tidbit?

Yeah, it's kind of interesting.

I.

Some ways I hadn't even thought about it, I think, until just now.

But, you know, in early football like today, the defense could advance a fumble.

And, you know, it.

It really, I assume, just goes back to the.

The rugby days where, you know, no team had possession of the ball and if you could grab the ball or whatever, you know, have at it, and if it's bouncing around, you pick it up and run or you pick it up and punt it, you know, one way or the other.

But there came a time in the, you know, as.

But, you know, they kept.

Kept that restricted in multiple ways that, you know, isn't the case today.

But there was.

There's a movement, several different movements to try to encourage lateraling.

And, you know, I think part of it was just, you know, people being exposed to rugby or remembering about rugby.

Part of it was exposure to Canadian rugby and where the lateral was still a major part of the game.

And so they just saw that as something that they should encourage.

And so one of the things they wanted to encourage, one specific play was what people now call a hook and lateral, or hook and, you know, people sometimes call it hook and ladder, but.

But it was originally called the flea flicker, which was you throw the pass to somebody downfield, and as soon as he catches it, typically he's pitching it to a teammate who's, you know, sweeping around him.

So that, again, that was, you know, Bob Zuck, Bob Zuppke, he originated the play.

But, you know, that was originally called the flea flicker.

And so they want to encourage stuff like that and then just general lateraling, you know.

And it's funny because it didn't really take off very much, but the whole option football did come later.

You know, a little bit.

Little bit later that came on, which is basically, you know, kind of similar to the rugby style lateraling as football has.

So anyways, in.

In trying to encourage that, one of one of the things that discouraged offenses from lateraling was the ability of the defense to advance the ball on a fumble.

Becomes a dead ball once the defense recovers it.

So the whole possibility of the scoop and score disappeared with one exception.

And so the exception was that the ball became dead if the defense recovered it after the ball touched the ground.

If the defense got the ball because it popped up in the air or because they tackled the.

The ball carrier in a way that allowed them to just grab the ball away from them or they intercepted a, you know, a lateral or pitch.

Any of those three were ways that the defense could advance the ball.

And so they could still catch and score.

They couldn't scoop and score or grab and score.

So that led to a whole thing, a whole vocabulary of stealing the ball.

And so if you deliberate.

Well, they didn't really differentiate at the time whether it was you deliberately stole the ball from the offense or if it just, you know, the ball popped up.

But you know, in the tidbit, I show some newspaper headlines where a game is won because Tech stole the ball from Auburn or whomever, you know, whatever the team combination was.

And you know, a couple other funny things about that was that there were a lot of folks kind of thought that whole thing was unsportsmanlike, you know, that stealing, deliberately stealing the ball or tackling the ball to get it away from the ball carrier.

They thought that was unsportsmanlike.

And so there were attempts to get rid of that, to make that illegal, you know, to do.

And, you know, then the, the offense would just retain possession of the ball.

Another thing that was just kind of fun, I thought, was that during that time in the 20s, University of Pennsylvania was known as a school that, know, coached stealing the ball, right?

And there were times where Penn was, Princeton before them.

But then, you know, maybe in the 20s and stuff, Penn had a reputation as maybe not always being the, the most sportsmanlike fellas on the, on the, you know, on the gridiron.

And so that was just one example that now we just think, well, that's smart.

You know, they got tackle the ball.

But at the time it was just, you know, they kind of thought that was not, that was not a good thing.

Just maybe a last point about it is that there were players and one guy in particular, Chuck Taylor, who.

Not the guy that the shoes are based on, but he was, you know, star football player, coach, and then later the AD at Stanford and when he was a sophomore, he stole the ball from, from, from some opponent and, you know, took it in for a score.

And it was like, it was one of those plays where people viewed it as kind of the ultimate in athleticism.

You know, if you were kind of tough enough to steal the ball and race in and score, that was like, you know, it was, you know, it tended to be like linebacker, tight endy type, you know, players that did that.

And so anyways, it was kind of like a mark of athleticism and toughness if you were able to do that.

So, you know, he was kind of glorified for that.

And then, you know, that kind of stayed in place.

So anyways, just really, really, that rule.

1990, in college, I think the pro NFL had allowed scoop and score for a long time.

Wow.

Okay.

I didn't realize, I don't know exactly when they, you know, when they, when they changed from the college rules.

I was officiating in the late 80s in high school football.

And I know you could advance it there.

I didn't realize college had a rule against that.

Very interesting.

Now, going back to something you said earlier, just to make some clarification.

You said Zuppke's original play, that what we now know as the hook and lateral was called the flea flicker.

So when did the flea flicker sort of go back to what we know today as a flea flicker of, you know, a handoff, you know, somebody feigning a charge in the line of running back, turning around, flipping it back, the quarterback, then a pass downfield.

Yeah, I may have the date wrong, but it was Web Eubank.

So Eubank, I believe it was when he was coaching the Colts, he.

He had basically pulled out a play that he had, you know, he played designed like our current flea flicker.

He kind of pulled that out of his, you know, an old high school playbook and implemented it at the NFL level.

And he just mistakenly called it a flea flicker.

And so then that kind of, you know, it got publicity.

And so then that started becoming called the flea flicker.

And the hook and lateral was, you know, I mean, the hook and lateral had been called that too.

It was like it went by two names at the time.

Right.

And then flea flicker took over as the charge in the line tossed back to the quarterback play.

Did not know that.

And now the flea flicker.

I know I saw at least twice last year, last weekend on NFL games, but the hook and lateral, you usually don't only see that maybe desperation time at the end of a game or something, a team has to score and, you know, too far to throw to the end zone.

But, yeah, interesting stuff.

Yeah, but here and there, I think the, you know, people, I think Boise use the hook and lateral one time and I mean, they use the Statue of Liberty in a game.

But anyways, I mean, here and there you see it and it's.

Yeah, it's kind of a cool play, actually.

Yeah, lots of fun.

Anytime there's some misdirection and putting the defense on their heels a little bit, that's always a cool thing to watch.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's great that you get to reference, you know, some of these old plays and, you know, had.

They had a different meaning.

You know, 100 years ago or or so in football when.

When they originally came out and renamed just like we just talked about Flea Flicker.

But you do this all the time with your research and going back in the old newspapers and books and, you know, advertising pamphlets, but that you come up with these great tidbits that you come out with a few times a week.

Maybe you could share with the listeners how they can enjoy some of these.

Yeah, I mean, if you're into the vocabulary thing.

My third book, Hut, Hut Hike, is exactly that.

It kind of.

And that's where I found out about the Flea Flicker deal or in the research for that.

But otherwise, you know, if you're interested in football archaeology, just check out, you know, type it in.

You'll find me.

You know, I've got a substack site and so if you subscribe do to my site, you'll get an email every time I publish something.

Otherwise you can bookmark it or you can follow me on substack, which will just kind of direct you to the and it'll kind of go into your little folder so you can read it whenever you want.

Or follow me on Blue sky because I publish every.

Every story on there as well.

All right, Tim, well, we sure appreciate you coming on and sharing this with us each week, and we'd love to talk to you again about some more great football history.

Next week there's a good chance you'll get to.

That's all the football history we have today, folks.

Join us back tomorrow for more of your football history.

We invite you to check out our website, pigskindispatch.com not only to see the daily football history, but to experience positive football.

With our many articles on the good people of the game, as well as our own football comic strip, cleat marks comics, pigskindispatch.com is also on social media outlets, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and don't forget the Pigskin Dispatch YouTube channel to get all of your positive 4News in history.

Special thanks to the talents of Mike and Gene Monroe, as well as Jason Neff for letting us use their music during our podcast.

This podcast is part of the Sports.

History Network, your headquarters for the yesteryear.

Of your favorite sport.

You can learn more@sportshistorynetwork.com.