Daryn Kagan reconnects with longtime friend and NFL sideline reporter Laura Okmin to explore career burnout, finding purpose, and building real confidence. Named to Sports Illustrated’s list of the most powerful, influential women in sports, Laura discusses why she trains other women for sideline roles, how she handles pressure, and what friendship gives her in moments of doubt. Listen for candid stories and practical perspectives on reclaiming purpose after high achievement.

Named to Sports Illustrated’s list of the most powerful, influential, and outstanding women in sports today, Laura is recognized as a true game-changer—someone who is speaking out, setting the bar, and making a lasting impact.

Laura shares the moment that changed everything, a near plane crash that forced her to confront the reality that she didn’t care if she lived or died. That wake-up call led her to rebuild her life from the inside out, shifting from chasing success to creating purpose, stronger relationships, and true confidence.

They also discuss women in sports, mentorship, competition, and why Laura chose to support the very women who could replace her. Through her organization GALvanize, she now helps thousands of women build confidence, find their voice, and grow into leadership.

In This Episode You Will Learn

✅ How career burnout can show up even when you “have it all”

✅ Why finding purpose matters more than checking success boxes

✅ The mindset shift from competition to empowering others

✅ How to build real confidence, identity, and meaningful relationships

Powered by Ms Lou’s Cabin https://www.airbnb.com/h/mslouscabin

Timestamps

(00:00) The Moment That Changed Everything (Career Burnout Wake-Up Call)

(01:00) Breaking Into Sports as a Woman (Early Career Struggles)

(07:00) Rejection, Confidence, and Surviving a Competitive Industry

(11:30) Women in Sports Today vs. Then -What Still Hasn’t Changed

(20:25) The Plane Story That Forced Her to Rethink Her Life

(23:00) From Success to Purpose -Rebuilding Identity and Happiness

(27:00) Why Success Without Relationships Feels Empty

(31:03) From Competition to Empowerment -Helping Other Women Win

(34:30) Building GALvanize and Empowering Women in Sports

(43:10) Leaving a Dream Career and Finding What’s Next

Key Takeaways

🔹 Success without purpose can still lead to burnout and emptiness

🔹 Confidence comes from knowing who you are, not what you do

🔹 Supporting others can create more opportunity than competition

🔹 Real fulfillment comes from relationships, growth, and alignment

Guest Bio

Laura Okmin is a veteran NFL sideline reporter, leadership coach, and founder of GALvanize, an organization dedicated to empowering women in sports and beyond. With decades of experience in broadcasting and mentorship, she now focuses on helping individuals and teams build confidence, connection, and purpose-driven leadership.

Website: lauraokmin.com

Miramar jeans: https://amzn.to/4lFFIuc

Resources & Links

• Powered by Ms Lou’s Cabin- https://www.airbnb.com/h/mslouscabin
• Sign up for our newsletter: https://darynkagan.substack.com/
• Hope Possible: A Network News Anchor's Thoughts On Losing Her Job, Finding Love, A New Career, and My Dog, Always My Dog https://amzn.to/4az2X5f
• Miles Husband: MilesHusband.com

career burnout, finding purpose, women in sports, confidence building, personal growth, leadership development, NFL sideline reporter, mentorship, identity, life transformation, GALvanize

 I was on an airplane ride and we thought it was going down. Mm-hmm. I'm just sitting there and I'm watching, you know, I'm looking at my left and I'm seeing people crying and screaming and everybody's reaching for their phones and I just didn't care. And I would start telling that story eventually when I, when I started doing the work and people would always interject and they'd be like, oh, 'cause you were at peace.

And I'm like, no, because I didn't care. And they go, 'cause you accomplished so much. Check, check, check. And I was like, no, I, I was on a plane and I did not care if it crashed. And so we landed. And I, I mean like that, I made a promise or a vow and I was like, I'm gonna start creating a life that I care about.

But God forbid it, I was in a plane that went down. I would care desperately.

Hi friend, it's Darren. Welcome to Call Me Friend, powered by Miss Lou's cabin, an Airbnb property on remote section of the Georgia Coast. This is the podcast where I call a friend and you get one heck of an incredible story. Today's episode is going to be a little bit upside down. The things that you think are obvious might take a different turn, and it goes to a place that I think a lot of us can relate to.

Have you ever lost your job? I think it would be hard to get to this point in your life and never to have lost a job, but any case. I think worse than losing your job is the period before you lose your job. When you think you might lose your job, when you're feeling threatened, when you can see somebody coming for your position, panic, desperation can set in.

People can do some crazy things. It could be every woman for herself, which makes what my friend Laura Oakman has done all the more remarkable, inspiring and yes, crazy, if you will. So Laura and I go back, I'm gonna say three decades, well into the nineties when we both were sports anchors at CNN Sports. I eventually transitioned and went back into news, and Laura left CNN and went to Fox, where she has been one of their top NFL sideline reporters for a long time.

She is just incredible with that. And in fact, she is considered Sports Illustrated. Listen to this. Sports Illustrated put her on the list of the most powerful, most influential, and most outstanding women in sports. So imagine being Laura with this incredible job at Fox at the NFL, and you see these younger women coming up who might be considered more beautiful, more sexy, more hot.

They're new, they're the new thing, so to speak. And in the NFL you can be considered. Yeah. Just a thing, sorry to say, what does Laura do? Did Laura get cutthroat? Did Laura get the claws out? No. Laura decided to look at these young women and say, how can I help you? She's built an entire business around helping young women come for the kind of job that she worked decades.

To get

this episode of Call Me Friend is brought to you by Miss Lu's Cabin, an Airbnb property on remote section of the Georgia Coast. Do you ever go to a, a beautiful resort area and you long to know what it looked like before they paved paradise and put up a parking lot? Well, now you have your chance. Miss Lu's cabin sits on seven private acres on a tidal saltwater marsh about 50 minutes south of Savannah, Georgia, it is a place so quiet, don't even hear road noise.

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Miss Lou's cabin, check out the link in the show notes, or simply Google Miss Lou's cabin, and you'll find this piece of paradise. Well, hello friend.

Hello, friend. It is so good to see you.

We are overdue

just about two decades, two and a half decades. Are we in three decades?

We've known each other. Um, I was gonna save this for later, but the thing that made me, well, of course I had other things I wanted to talk to you about, but the thing that made me call you is our husbands talk now all the time.

Talk about a story twist. You couldn't like come up with when we met three decades ago.

Oh my God.

But your husband Mike and my husband Trent, work on all the miles stuff together to get you guys to fabulous places all around the world. And I always hear, oh, well Laura, and then he and Trent going, Darren.

I'm like, well, why aren't the original friends talking here?

And it got to a point, I think he, he, where I think Mike said, Trent asked if it's okay to give your email to Darren. I'm like. Can you just give my phone number to David? But I was like one great man, you know, checking on giving numbers and context.

Yes. But I laughed so hard at that of like,

yeah,

who do you two think you are to ask if you can connect us.

Yes. These two men who have hijacked the friendship. Uh, and then when I told Trent I was talking to you later today, he's like, oh, well tell Laura I'm working on, I don't know, Barcelona to St.

Petersburg or wherever it is that you guys are going next. So he hasn't forgotten about you. He's keeping an alert out for like the next best fanciest flight. He will find you with Mike's Miles and whatever trip is ahead for you guys is gonna be pretty special. Whatever it is. I love

it. How about that?

Just the life is funny. You know, the life is funny chapter of our husbands being friends and being connected, but also the fact that your husband creates these incredible trips for us. And so it's whenever Trent and you are brought into. Our relationship. It's while we are living our best life, and it's while we're traveling the world.

And so even that to be like, how perf, how, how perfect is that

as it should be? And it's what you're all about. And that making everybody their best self, so like, attracts like,

uh, I, I'd say right back at you, but attracting right back at you. Yes. So yes. Yes. I'm so, I'm so excited for this, Darren. Um, uh, it made me go, why in the world haven't, why, why did we need to wait two and a half decades to have this conversation?

But I'm so glad we are. I have, I have loved watching your path. I've loved watching, um, just where your life has gone. So I'm so excited about,

so here we are. Well, and thank you. Thank you for that. So when I was getting ready for this call and I was thinking, well, if we go back to the beginning, we risk sounding like we started.

When we became friends, like in the horse and buggy age,

two women in sports, when it still was a thing. I know you have your stories of Oh, you can, you know, women don't do sports. I mean, anybody who came into, any woman who came into sports in the eighties or nineties, nineties for us, um, had to hear that, had to hear Women don't do sports. I know I did.

You know, it's crazy.

I, I remember when I was applying for jobs, like I remember it so early, as do you, but I remember when I finally got my job and it was in Montgomery, Alabama, and it was weekend sports and it was weekday news and it was a woman news director who mm-hmm. Like really was ahead of her time. I still were Facebook friends and I always thank her.

Um, but there were no women in the South Montgomery, Alabama. It was a big deal. And I remember having a moment before my first Friday night football game and, and, and you know, in the south and Friday night football. Yeah. Huge. It's such, right. It's such a big deal. So I was standing there at my first game and there's a, I'm waiting for the coach and I'm getting a pregame interview with him and it's a coach and it's like three people and they're walking up to me and laughing and they're coming up to introduce a coach to me.

And right before they walked out, Daryn like I was having a moment, like I made it, you know, like it took me almost a year to get this first job. Yeah. So like, I'm standing here, I'm about to do my first real live interview and, and I was making $10,000. So like, it was a real yay. It was a real job.

Mm-hmm.

A year. We should actually clarify. $10,000 a year. A

year. Oh yeah. Not for the game. Yes. That was for a year. And I was sitting there having a, a confidence moment and as they're walking out, I noticed the coach is holding a basketball and a football. I'm just like in my moment. And so I'm like, that's interesting.

And they walk up and as I go to shake awkwardly, 'cause he is holding this, he goes, Lil apologize for the bad Southern accent. But little girl, I just wanted you to know the difference between a football and a basketball and a basketball is around at a football is oblong And they all just laughed and he handed the balls over.

And I always say that changed everything for me. I went from having the confidence that I just made it to, it just shot me down like that, realizing I had made nothing and it took me until I was 40 to get that confidence. But that was truly, I always say that was my welcome to sports moment of standing there thinking you're, you know, you're accomplishing something and people constantly telling you, you ain't that.

And we don't want, I

just want to reach back in the time machine and just hug that young woman and say, and show her a video. Even though we weren't working with video. Say, well, I guess we were working a video. Uh, just say, this is what you're gonna do. This is how big you're gonna get. This is your, who even knows where that coach was for me?

I was in Phoenix as a news reporter, and I got conflicting. When I decided I wanted to do sports, I got conflicting messages. The weekday sports guy pulled me aside and told me, flatly, women don't do sports. Women will never be accepted in sports. And interestingly, and this would tie into what we're gonna talk about with you, it was the weekend sports guy, Gil Tyree, who I've had on this podcast, the guy who, if I made it, should have been threatened by me.

Right. He was the one who believed in me, wouldn't let me quit. Every time he would see either Robin Roberts or Hannah Storm or Linda Cohen up on the monitors in the newsroom, he would pull me in and he would make me look like practically time me down and say, see that they do it and you can do it too.

And without him, we wouldn't be sitting here today. So one person in my ear going, what an idiot. You can't do this. And one person in my ear saying, you will do this.

Isn't that funny? It's, I know. We'll talk about this. And, and it's so hard because as a woman who empowers women, you're always being accused of being a man hater.

And I'm like, God, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the wonderful men that have championed and encouraged and hired. And so I'm always like, I can't get enough of good men. And the only reason we're able to keep moving forward, which we need to, is because of men, women. Women, just talking to women in a space of women does not fly in the world of sports.

Like, that's not, that's not sustainable for us. And we have to have men. But, but I will say this before we even do anything about yay, how far we've come and we have in numbers, but I have worked with thousands of women, no exaggeration over the last 15 years. Mm-hmm. And Darren, they're still bringing the stories up that you and I just talked about.

Yeah.

It's still being said. They're still being disinvited into rooms, still being told they don't belong. The same calls I'm getting it to in the morning, or the same calls you and I didn't have anyone to call to talk to, but we would, if we did, we would've called and, and go. They're going through the same things we did, which is just like, it's just the most deflating, the most dis deflating thing, um, every day that I think about.

'cause I swear it's every day I get these texts and calls,

it's the same thing. So, I mean, there's different forces happening at the same time. Right. There's that discouraging thing. And then there's this progress. Um, and I was just, it just occurred to me a little piece of the progress is if you even look at the time that you and I were together at CNN Sports, there were three women at one time, right.

You, me and Nancy Newman. And the idea that there would be And Inga Yes. And Hammonds. Yes. So the fact, and so three solid, not just three or four token women. Women who could hold their own and who were great journalists and, and did a great job. Um, but that those men that ran CNN sports, that they could see room to have more than just a token woman.

Yeah. And think about that. Now, I don't know, you tell me if you did this. I know it was a big deal when they first started putting Nancy and I together. I think you were already upstairs, you were already in news.

Mm-hmm.

But they started having Nancy and I, or Inga Nancy in together, and ESPN was doing that.

So that was such a huge deal. But I will say this because Jim Walton being the reason Yeah. You know, the, the, uh, who was president of CN Sports and then went to CNN News to

the head of the network. Yeah. I,

I remember one time going in and he was asking me, uh, about maybe comparisons or something came up when I was comparing myself to one of the women in the newsroom.

And he goes, that's so interesting. Why do you, in, why do you compare yourself to her? And I was like, well, because we're the women. Mm-hmm. And he goes, that's so funny. And he goes, I would never compare you to her who I would compare you with. And he named Chris Rose, and he is like, here's why you and Chris are very much, very similar to me in how I use you both.

And that was the first time someone also said to me, why are you competing with women? Where all of a sudden I went from, it's not the three or four of us. It's the whole newsroom. Like, who am I? Like right? Who am I? You know, who should I start looking up to besides just women? So he opened our world in numbers, like, you know, literally by hiring women, but also figuratively.

That really opened my mind and probably was the, was the best thing that ever, ever happened to me. Being young enough in this career to be like, women aren't your competition. Everybody is

great. Mind shift. Great mind shift. So yeah, as you said, so I went back to news. Rick Kaplan came in and said, yeah, this sports thing is cute, but what about doing news?

And that was the path for me. So that was great. But you went on. Why did you leave CNN and go to Fox?

Um, I left because at the time C-N-N-S-I was, was, yes, folding and I had the stay. Oh,

okay, okay. Yeah.

And they didn't know what it was going to be. And so it was, maybe it was reporting and maybe it was anchoring.

Maybe it was the fee. It, it, there were so many unknowns, and I think I finally probably had about nine years under my belt, you know, that I was at a point where I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a chance at me here and see what I can do. Um, so I, I love being able to say, that was the first time that I had the opportunity.

They asked me to stay and I was like, what's the path that I wanna chart right now? And what do I wanna do? And what are the things that are important to me? So I left for that and, um, and I'm so glad because it's,

yes,

it was my first jump, right? My first leap mm-hmm. And really going, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bet on myself and I'm gonna go into the unknown.

And, uh, that was the first time I did it, and I loved it so much that that really became something that I started doing. But, well, you need that first time.

Like, do you remember the first time you really

took a bet on yourself or, and said like, I'm gonna do this, and jumped.

I, I do. Although I will say in my entire career, I never had more than one job opportunity.

I bluffed, but it was never like, oh, do I go to CN? Do I stay at CNN or do I go to Fox? I, it was, well, this is where I have the contract opportunity. So, um, for all my success, I went where I was wanted until I wasn't wanted. And then I guess, actually, no. Okay. To your point, my big jump was when CNN came to me after 12 years and said, we're not gonna renew your contract.

And I didn't have another offer. I bet on myself to create my own media company and do all this. So I'll take that. It's a good, that was, that was a bit of a leap. That was a big leap.

I'm gonna circle back to, um, my husband when we were dating and it was getting serious and it was the first time that he was allowed to come up from the driveway to the apartment.

So it was a big deal. It took them a while to be able to get, uh, to get up those stairs.

Mm-hmm.

And I used to have a, uh, a, a magnet on my refrigerator and just one magnet. And I, I went through a really tough time when I was 40 and it was a, a really intense couple years of figuring out my life and depression and all that.

And so this one magnet in my fridge was always, um, the zen saying, leap in the net will appear. And I, I loved that and I lived by that, and that really was important to me. And so Mike comes in and he walks into the apartment and he walks like right to the kitchen and just boom, looks right at the refrigerator and looks at the magnet.

And without even turning around, he goes, huh, why do you need a net? And I was like, oh, oh. Like it was just such a, oh, and I think it was the next phase of my, you don't wait till the next there when, what does betting on yourself really mean? Like you did, which is I'm gonna create something totally new versus job to job to job.

But it was, it was such a wise thing to say, and I still love it so much. I, every time I talk to someone, I'm like, do you need the net or not? And I just know every great story. If it's a movie or if it's our own story. Mm-hmm. Starts with that leap where there's not a net. So. So I, God, I, I know you're like this too.

I look back on those CNN, C-N-N-S-I days so fondly and sometimes

Yes, yes.

Did you, I remember we would all say one day we're gonna look back at this and be like, man, we didn't know how good it was. And I don't think that, I always look back and think, I think we knew how good it was.

We knew. We knew because anybody who was there had actually worked somewhere else.

And to give some context, so cnn, CNN had a sports department. It was run by a man named Bill McPhail, who is a legend in the business of the late Bill McPhail. He, um, his values, how he treated people, how he treated department, there will never be another boss like that. And then he retired. And then CNN, along with Sports Illustrated, is it rest in peace?

Is there still Sports Illustrated?

No, I think, I think it's riff.

Rip, rip. Um, they came together and said, let's create our own channel. So then it got, it got really big. Um, and it was good, but it was never, I mean, I think CN sports was really, really the glory days. Um, but still great people. It was Atlanta.

It wasn't a cutthroat environment like let's say New York or dc. Um, it was Crystal. It was special. And I agree. I think we knew when we were in it that it was, that it was special.

Wow. Yeah. It's, um, I, I was just talking to someone yesterday, Evan Canoe, um, God, I love that, like, name drop on this. Yeah. And we kind of did the same thing.

I I, we didn't talk since CNN, um, C-N-N-S-I went away and how quickly we just picked up with memories and people and good people. And I worry about that these days. It's so cutthroat and, um, it's so competitive and everybody. It's in such a hurry to get there. And you and I know there's no there, like you're here.

Yeah.

Well

that's

true.

Yeah. I don't know anyone who's there, you know, so everybody's in such a hurry right now. And it's, it's just, it breeds a different, it, it, it breeds a different mentality and breeds different friendships and relationships. So it's, yeah, it was the good old days in a lot of ways.

Yeah.

Well, it was also a whole different world, right? I mean, there wasn't social media. It was drummed into you at CNN that news was a star. You know, you were there to cover the story. There was nothing about promoting yourself necessarily. Um, it was more for the team, um, all the more remarkable that you would step away from that, because that could be a very cushy, comfortable thing like that.

You would take a chance, but you took a chance. You go on to NFL to well, to NFL and Fox and become this superstar sideline reporter. And then when you're 40. Like you're saying, there was some dark moments that kind of brought you into that next chapter. What were the kind of things that made you go, there's gotta be something more than just like, check, check, check, check.

Um, I love that you said check, check, check. Yeah. Yeah. That was my whole life wasn't like most of us at that time. Um, I, I, you know, I have, I have one moment that changed everything for me, which was, I was on a plane and I wish I could remember where I was coming from or where I was going, but I, my life was plain, so I had no idea.

Um, I, I don't remember. I was going somewhere and leaving somewhere and, um, I, I had all the checked boxes. I had, I had probably done at least 15, covered at least 15 Super Bowls maybe at that time, and hosted probably two or three, two Olympics and covered Michael Jordan, the book. Like I was just checking everything and I.

Was so depressed and we didn't talk about that then, and you didn't say it. And I don't know if we even called it that, but I was on an airplane ride and we thought it was going down and it was, um, like the movie, right? Like the masks and the lights and

mm-hmm.

I'm just sitting there and I'm watching, you know, I'm looking my left and I'm seeing people crying and screaming and everybody's reaching for their phones and I just didn't care.

And I would start telling that story eventually when I, when I started doing the work, and people would always interject and they'd be like, oh, 'cause you were at peace. And I'm like, no, because I didn't care. And they'd go, 'cause you accomplished so much, check, check, check. And I was like, no, I, I was on a plane and I did not care if it crashed.

And so we landed, and I, I mean like that I made a promise or a vow and I was like, I'm gonna start creating a life that I care about. That God forbid if I was in a plane that went down, I would care desperately. And my work started. I look at everything from. Before that plane and after that plane. And I still think about this, Darren, I still think about people who have that moment in the plane crashes or whatever, you know, horrible thing, you know, whatever it is.

But I changed everything about my life, and I just stopped looking at check boxes and realized I had no relationships. I had no friendships. Um, I hadn't grieved my mom, um, passing years before. And I just, I, I got my, I I just started creating a life and started to figure out who I was besides, um, besides a broadcaster, besides a reporter.

And I'm so thankful. I'm so thankful for that moment and changed everything in my life. Do you have one of those?

He will love me when I do that. They will love me. So when I do that next thing for CNN, then they will love me when I do that next thing for the dumb guy I was chasing or thought he was interested, then he will love me. Um, and the dumb guy without naming names wanted me to go to Kuwait because he was going there too.

And I, so I did it and I came back and the dumb guy told me he was gonna go marry his old girlfriend. And CNN told me the little girl who was filling in for my cut-ins while I was at war, they were gonna promote her instead.

And I was like,

that's a moment.

Yeah. What kind of, you know, that was my plane going down, right? Yeah. Like if I do all these things when I do this, then I will be happy when I do this. Then I will be loved and I, yeah, had to throw out. I think that's kind of started a spiritual journey for me. And if I was gonna wrap it up, I would say I got to the point where I realized it's who you're gonna be, not what you're gonna do.

I think that's what I live by even today. That's what it is. It's the be not the, do

I call it The who, not the do. Like that's everything I train is who you are is not what you do. So the who, not the do or the be, not, you know, the be not the who. Oh,

I like yours better because it rhymes.

It rhymes because

it rhymes.

But getting back to your journey again, it's all well and good to say, okay, I'm gonna like the plane lands and I'm gonna make a difference. But like, and I know some people will be listening to this and really identifying with it, but like, where do you start? You don't just go, okay, now I have great relationships and now I do this.

It's to redo everything. It's a really big deal. Yeah. And

back then, gosh, you just didn't even say, like, no one said go to therapy, no one, you know, like that was still kind of, that, that was still so private and, and dark, honestly. Um, thankfully I did, but honestly how it changed and it took a while, I just remember coming, um, getting out of some really toxic things and some bad things and doing that very quickly and being like if, um, there was, you know, a, a real dangerous situation and, um, with restraining orders and things, and, and I remember thinking I would rather the worst happened and at least I was trying, and I wasn't sleepwalking, I wasn't staying in things be because it was, I was scared or I, I, I, it was not comfortable and comfortable and the uncomfortable, but I just look at it that I was sleepwalking for such a long time.

Um, but a cool job. Sleepwalking in cool places, but it was sleepwalking.

Mm-hmm. Good money.

Yeah. All of that. Mm-hmm. And again, didn't care if you're plane crashes. But how I really started it was I, I'll never forget the next day where I was laying in bed and I'm just laying there and I opened my eyes and I'm like, I don't know what makes me happy?

And so that just kind of kept me in bed and because sleepwalking. And so the next day I woke up and my eyes open and it was just same thing, like, I don't know what makes me happy. And that kept me in bed longer for a while. So like trying to make the change, but realizing like that was paralyzing me. I didn't know what made me happy and where to start.

And one day, I swear to you, I said the same thing, but just I switched the inflection. And one morning I woke up and was like, I don't know what makes me happy. And that began my search and it was my first rule was okay. Anything someone asks you to do, anything anyone brings to you an invitation, no matter big or small, not saying yes.

I hate when people say that 'cause no was more possible, but I would say, well, doing this make me happy. And if the answer was, I don't know which everything was, 'cause I didn't have anything that made me happy, I was depressed, I'd have to do it. And so I spent a year just doing things to see if they made me happy.

And I didn't get an answer to what made me happy for a full year. But doing what made, trying to figure it out was making me happy. It was like a real good like ninja kind of mind trick, but that's honestly how I started with that. And then going to therapy and talking about my mom dying and talking about my lack of trust with people and why I have no relationships and why, I mean, my whole life was building relationships.

So if, if I was in my old place, this would be a huge whiteboard and it would be, it would say on a relationship Tuesday. All I did on Tuesday, which was is NFL Players days off. I had lists of who I was reaching out to, who I was building relationships with, who I was introducing myself to. When did I like what spouses names, kids names.

I was doing so much to build relationships, reaching out to people with no agendas. And so if you would've quizzed me on anybody, I would've been like, yes, here's the spouse's name, here's the kid's name here, here's how old, here's the dog. And I, during that time after the plane, I just started really going, if I would say I was so proud of my relationships, but if you would've asked any of those people, well, is Laura married?

Does she have kids? Does she have a dog? When did her mom die? Did you know her mom died? Every single one of them would've been like, I don't know. And not 'cause they weren't trying, I just wouldn't let anybody in. So it was, building relationships was such a one-sided professional thing, which isn't a relat.

Right. So that was probably my biggest work too, which was starting to let people in, starting to have friendships, starting to, um, starting to really work on my end of the bargain with, with what building a relationship meant, which was so uncomfortable. And it was probably one of the things that helped me grow the most was finally sharing and finally giving and uh, and bringing something to the party versus you're like this too, versus everybody just being like, Darren's the best I can tell her anything.

She's a vault. I can trust her with any, you know, like that was my, that's just what I hung my hat on and then realized, um, how unhappy that was making me, or how half, you know, how half the relationship it was. Yeah.

It takes two to tango, I guess. Yeah, you have to, yeah. You can just treat it like as bootcamp of like just you were, um, memorizing a roster.

You had to. Yeah, it had to go. It had to go both ways. So one of the most amazing things, and you've done so many amazing things, I wanna get to the story of Galvanize. It makes, let me just say it makes zero sense to the normal person because let me set it up as how like a normal, sane person would see this.

All right? So you have this industry of sports media where yes, there have been, there has been progress with women, but there are far fewer roles for women than there are for men. There's still kind of tokens, numbers. So as you are climbing the ladder and also aging, what is happening is younger women sexier women, even more beautiful women.

Not inside or out, but you know, it just, that just keeps going. Most people in that, not saying women, most people in a situation where they can see their job perhaps being threatened, where they can see the competition pool growing, they would panic, they would be desperate, they would be cutthroat. Nobody would blame them for anything.

And yet you, Laura Okmin turned to this pool of women and instead of saying, F you get outta my way, you know nothing. You say, how can I help you? And you've built an entire industry on helping women. So you need to explain this thinking to me.

It all goes back to the plane and, and everything that I wrote down, what, what I was lacking.

And I had a passion, which was my job. You know that? Mm-hmm. I loved our jobs, loved our jobs, but I had no purpose. And so I was also really looking for that which, or looking, I don't know if you look for that or it looks for you. But at the same, I mean, it was the exact same time of everything of me trying to figure out what made me happy.

I was watching all these young women getting chewed up and spit out. And um, and if I, if it happened five years earlier, I would've been one of those women who also was real judgmental, like, you can't hang, you shouldn't be here. And instead of being, you know, instead of being judgemental, I got really protective.

And I had an NFL head coach who, you know, was talking to me about it one time about saying, I don't understand it. I have this woman contractually I have to talk to at halftime, and I don't know what she's saying. Like, I can't, you know, I'm down 17 and I don't know what she's saying, but she reminds me of my daughter.

So I'm trying to help her and tell her something that she can take. But I see she doesn't know what I'm saying. And he was like, what's going on here? And I remember just again, five years earlier, I would've been so judgmental, but. I felt so bad for her. I knew I wasn't ready to start and I, I didn't, I wasn't ready to start on the NFL level.

Yeah. And I would never have last, I would've never lasted as long as I, as I did if I didn't have a foundation Yeah. As a reporter before I got to the NFL on Fox. But the sideline role has become the girl role. And so these young women who are getting thrown in and, and aren't reporters yet, they're sideline presence.

And so I was so, I was just so angry that these young women were getting thrown in that way. And at the time, galvanized was very much focused on, on camera. It's not anymore, but. It really was just me being like, how can I help? Like how can I help this? And started,

so what did you do for the first thing?

Like what did you do? Because it's not like I, oh, I'm gonna go start a cookie factory and this is how you start a cookie factory. Like there, there wasn't a thing, so No, you made it up. So what did you make up?

I basically recruit. I lived in Tucson, Arizona, and I basically, oh, I, I know my Wildcat right.

Aren't you Tucson? Are you? No, no. Stanford?

No. I lived in Phoenix.

Phoenix. Oh, there's my Arizona. Where'd you go

to school? Yeah, yeah. Sun Devil, Stanford, Cardinal.

Okay. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So I was in Tucson and I basically recruited 20 women who were all on the West Coast, and I just mm-hmm. Was like, do you want to come in a conference room for two days?

Like, let me help, wanna

come to my house? You

wanna come over? Yeah. Very like weird. But um. It was just, it started like that. It started, you know, with 20 women. And, um, I would say back then, I had no idea it would be bigger than that. But that was 15 years ago and it probably took

mm-hmm.

Four months to find 20 women who said yes.

And now it's over 5,000 women and there's waiting lists to get in. And we do bootcamps that there's no women on camera. And I'm trying so hard to raise commissioners and GMs and presidents and coaches and, you know, and head, head of uh, uh, women who hire. 'cause we can't count how many sideline reporters are.

There's so many and that's great. But if you and I went and counted women in power in sports and the impact makers who really are making

three

Yeah. One hand.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe. You know, it's interesting because yes, the same critic would've said, why are you going empowering your competition? But as you've pointed out, this is.

To, to think small like that, that this was ever just about, let's say 10 20 side alarm reporters. You've created a whole network and empowerment movement for women across sports. And Laura, why does it have to just be sports? Like the model is infinite, isn't it?

Yeah. And I actually work with NFL coaches and anybody who knows Galvanize, I can say to them, I'm galvanizing coaches.

And they're always like, got it. Um, 'cause it's the same thing. And, and it's all about connection and your who, not your do. And, and there's honestly, we have so many women who come into Galvanize and they're, and they don't know sports or they don't like sports. I'm like, it's not sports. Even when we team up with NFL teams and train the rookies every, everything is about your who, not your do, who are you.

Mm-hmm. And so I think that's why I never thought about it professionally like that they would take away my job. How I always thought about it was pre playing. If I would've had a woman going through that with me, I was making every mistake and there was such, my mom had just died and I had everything, you know, in the sports world is gray and I'm trying to figure this out and I was making so many mistakes and I wasn't learning from them.

I was just judging them. And um, and I just, I, I was thinking at just at that time when I was doing the work, how much it would've helped me if I had somebody who was going through it. And so I really didn't think about it, honestly about professionally, how it would help them. I was really thinking about, it would've changed my life to have a woman or a group of women who could say, I'm going through this.

How are you handling it? Because it, I hate saying this 'cause it's so personal, but for everybody, but nothing they're going through isn't something you and I haven't gone through. It's true. It's the same shit. Yeah, it's, and so now to be able to talk, to be able to not just have older mentors, but to be able to call each other up and go, how are you dealing with this?

And so I I, I mean, I, it's just, it's, uh, the greatest, the greatest professional privilege of my life. I love it. And I, there isn't a week goes by that I don't get a picture from women on football field to either know each other from Galvanize or they've done different camps, but they haven't met each other.

But as soon as you say galvanize, it kind of is, I come in peace, like I'm a woman's woman. Mm-hmm. And I can't stress this enough. I wasn't, I grew up with mean girls, so I didn't have girlfriends. My mom was my best friend. And so I, I didn't trust girls, I didn't have girlfriends. I became a guy's girl, which got me into sports.

So. It wasn't just, it wasn't natural to me at all. I didn't have, you would've asked any girls from high school or college that I grew up with, they'd be like the one person that wouldn't start, she's the one, Steve,

her,

she doesn't even hang out with girls. Like, so it was, it was such a beautiful surprise to find out, not like I'm a hardcore woman's woman.

Like I just didn't know it. But it was, it's been one of the greatest surprises in my life.

Who knew? So what happens at a galvanized gathering or like a bootcamp? Like what is it, how long, what do you do? I guess it's different, different ones, but basically what what? What do you do at Galvanize?

The most common one would be a two day bootcamp, and day one is all about the women.

So it's all confidence. It's just confidence building in yourself, confidence building in each other. It's all your who, because again, I didn't have a story until I was 40. And so all these storytellers of different ways. Day one is all about them and their story because we can't really ask someone to give their story to us unless mm-hmm.

We're prepared. Right? So that's, you know, my journey. And then day two, we team up with usually NFL rookie classes and they don't know we're coming. So let's say there's 32 rookies. That means I bring 32 women and we are not allowed to talk football or sports with them. We are there for who not do. And so at a time, at their first rookie camp, when that logo is about to define who they are, we're there to go, hold on a second, who are you?

And help them figure out that story. And also, selfishly, they've never had women in the locker room. Most of them have not worked with a lot of women. And so it's the first time they get paired and it's this great group of women who've flown all over the country in Canada to come help them get better.

So it's also a great way, instead of standing up there and being like, respect women, you know, treat women well. It's such a great life example of putting these young men and young women together, even though Galvanize, I mean, I have one coming this camp who's 54. So they're all, not all like young college women, uh, all different ages, but to put them together and see how both sides can help each other.

So it's a beautiful, um, chocolate and vanilla combination of people starting their journeys and going, how can I help you? And it creates a lot of empathy and respect for each other, which I love.

That's just amazing. Also amazing. You're not that far away from when you took a very recent leap with no net.

Well, you had a little, what would appear to be a net but you, your contract was up with Fox and they said, great sign on the dotted line. Here's another go round. And you said, no thank you. Just last year.

Just last year. Yeah. Um. That was my biggest leap to date. Soon as I started doing sidelines, I wrote down two things.

I wrote down, I wanna be over 50, I wanna make it to 50 on the sideline. 'cause I hadn't seen it.

And so I wanted to do that and I wanted to leave on my own terms. I, did not want them to tell me they were done with me. You know, just watching how, how women, um, are treated in this industry or, some women.

So that was really important to me. And so I had been working the last 10 years on other things to make sure I wasn't just leaving the sidelines and having, you know, and not knowing what I wanted. So I was building other things and building things I was excited about, to the point where sidelines was kind of taking me away from everything I really wanted to do, uh, which was great.

But it, the last year I did it, I still wasn't positive. I was almost sure, but, um, this is such a weird story. But when I was putting a, a puppy down when I lived in la

Mm.

And Mike and I were struggling with it so much, and I kept calling and changing the appointment because it was like, he's ready. And then I was like, he's not ready.

And you know, like I kept doing that and calling hysterically and the most wonderful vet, um, he called me one day and he goes, I, I just have to say this to you. You get to make this decision once and you don't need to rush into this. People always do so can I give you something to make your decision? And he said, at the end of every day, all I want you to do is write down good day or bad day.

That's it. Not at every hour, not every morning and afternoon, just the end of the day. The last thing, good day, bad day. And he said, your decision will be made for you. And he was right because for a while it was like, good day, good day, good day, bad day, bad day, good day. And then it was a lot of bad day.

And so it helps so much. So I wanted to make sure when I left this job and this career that I did that test because I knew if I, if I made the decision right after a season, I would've been done. 'cause emotionally I would've been like, I'm out. 'cause I was at that point. Mm-hmm. Um, but I knew if I waited two or three months, I'd the things that I knew bothered me and I was ready to make a change.

I knew they wouldn't bother me much. You know how like time, like I can do? Yeah. So every day after my game on Sunday, I'd get on the plane and right before I would turn the page to the next week of whatever game I would write down, stay or leave. And that way I could keep track of 18 weeks and never looked back, but just at the end, go, good day, bad day, stay or leave.

And I looked back at the end and every day, but one was leave or every week. Every week. And not that I was having bad weeks, I was having great weeks. I just knew it was time. And so. I put so much intention into that, which is why it was such a great leap. It wasn't about what I, it wasn't about what I was giving up.

It was so much about, you are so ready. Like if you, I you're, you're so ready. What's holding you back except fear and, um, fear or the unknown. Um, and it went back to betting on myself again and just being like, I want, I, I just wanna see what I can do on my own here. And I've loved it. I've loved it so much.

It's, it has been the most incredible chapter and, and also hard stuff, you know, that been on TV for 30 plus years. So vanity had to die and ego had to die. You've gone through that, you know, of like, how do you describe yourself? But I know that I've loved it. It's been, it's, it was the best, it was the time, and I'm so happy I put so much thought and, and tension into it.

Oh.

In a lot of ways. I, I miss that the least. The tv, I mean, I've been surprised how much I've enjoyed this. Yeah. Put me in front of a camera and a microphone and have a conversation and I love that. Um, but what I found, I really, to your point, until you get away, you don't really know the parts that you're missing.

The part hands down that I miss the most is the team news, tv, whatever this content thing is, it's a team sport and I enjoy a team sport. Um, you can do a lot by yourself, but like, you know, you've met Abe, the great producer, engineer, there's other great people, Tammy and Rob behind the scenes. Tracy who started the company, produced your podcast that creates this podcast.

Um, I really like working with people and that's been a good thing to get back to. But wait, but enough about me. I wanna know, and I know we don't have a ton of time, but, um, what you're doing since you left, um, Trent likes to say. This won't surprise you. It's an airplane analogy. A plane doesn't take off without someplace to land.

So you didn't need a net, but you did have someplace to land when you walked away from the Fox contract. So tell me where you landed your plane.

I, I've been working with coaches for the last, uh, over a decade and quietly doing that and working, um, I, I always say the best way to explain it. Now what I do is, um, is players development, right?

We all hear about every team is player development. And teams pour so much into making sure that the players, um, are developed off the field. And so I'm in coaching development and so, uh, my official title is working on coaches communication and development and connection. It's really communication and connection with each other, and I've loved that.

So I work with individual coaches and I work with this coaching staff and it really is galvanized in a different way. So I'm the same way you are. Um, what I love is. I what, what lights me up is earning trust and what lights me up mm-hmm. Is building relationships and helping people figure out their story and the evolution that I've went through when I was younger, I loved all that, but I had to share that I was doing that on camera, right?

Like, I'm helping you tell a story so I can tell the story and I, if you give me some, if I earned your trust, can I share that over here? And so I think the closer I was getting with people, um, with, with different relationships and working with coaches. The TV part didn't serve me anymore. I, I, what, what really was my growth was helping people and not having to explain off the record or, um, this is, you know, this is just you and me.

Yeah. I'm a person, not a reporter, and I don't wanna do that anymore. So, I've loved it. If, if I can help anybody find their purpose, and if I can help anybody connect more deeply with who they are and putting people together, if it's all these incredible women in sports, or all these incredible men on a coaching staff, uh, it is, it is such a privilege.

It is such a pleasure, and I love it. And by the way, it, it's such a incredible full circle for me because my first interaction with a coach was a real bad one. And so, you know, back, going back to Oblong. And so I was intimidated by coaches for a long time and, and didn't trust them. And so now the fact, now the idea that I get to work with coaches and have them come to me for help and their growth.

Um, I always say it's just such a great reminder of my growth and the journey I've been on.

Will you bring up trust? Which is perfect. To go into our next segment, about a month ago, I started a new segment on the podcast and it's called Asking for a Friend.

And this is an opportunity for other friends, for listeners to ride in. And then like, why should I be the only one who has access to my amazing friends? So they get to ask for a piece of advice. So I'm going to put this one out there from Chloe today and you can give your 2 cents. Okay. Or your $10 or whatever.

It's probably a billion dollars 'cause you're so smart. Okay, so Chloe is asking for a friend who would happen be Chloe. I just spent four hours writing yet another yearly review. I'm proud of the work I've done, but I know I'll only get a small annual cost of living bonus. And honestly, the opportunity I've been getting at this startup company capped out a couple years ago.

I know I need to go look for another job, but honestly, I don't know what I want to do. Nothing sounds perfect. How do I find the thing that will make me excited to go to work every day?

Ah, um, God, Chloe, uh mm-hmm. We've been there. Like we've been there and, and what I would say is I talk to people so much about this and I always think they're surprised by my reaction.

'cause I'm always like, yes. Like, you're right there. This is the good stuff. And I remember when I was so unhappy, and I would do this all the time, and I don't even know why. And someone finally said to me like, you're going through your growing pain. Like the, it was like my wings. Like I was trying to come outta my mm-hmm.

My little cocoon. So you have those wings. And that's how I feel when somebody's right in that tight spot of like, oh, you're right there. Now you just have to find out what it is. Um, and. I probably, I love to give assignments. That's my thing of like, okay, well let's do some work. And so I'd go back to the good day, bad day, or stay or leave.

I would end every day with what you loved that day or what you enjoyed that day. If it's not love yet, would you like that day? And I would keep track of that for a month or three months or six months or a year and start looking at every day what's lighting you up? Because I do know sometimes when it's just nothing makes me happy or, um, I don't know if I love this job.

And, and I know for me it was what do you love about the job? So what do you wanna take from that and make sure you're continuing to build versus abandoning? And that's one of the things I really did was take stock in what do I love about my world and what do I not wanna give up or what do I wanna build on?

And once you start making that list, it's kind of obvious if. If you, can I stay and do this? All of these things that I love, can I find a role here or can I give myself a role here that allows me to do that? Or do I have to go elsewhere for that? But I always think it, it starts with that first bit of work, which is what do I love?

And um, and making sure that it's at the end of every day and taking note in that. Otherwise, it's so easy to go for a whole week and be like, nothing makes me happy. I don't love anything. And just to kind of take one bite at a time.

I love it. I love it. I

love assign.

And before, so you have two assignments now.

'cause there's two questions I like to ask every friend who I call on this podcast. The first one is, who is the friend who had the great impact on your life, or the friend who the world needs to know about?

Um, I'm staying with my husband. Uh, he is my husband. My husband. Yeah. Like it's, he's my best friend.

And, and there's something about when you find someone later in life, just the appreciation of it. So I love him as my husband, but I value and treasure and need him as my friend. He's so good for me. I've never had a friend like him before who supports me and challenges me. Um, when we met, I think I was 41 or 42 and I wasn't dating, I had taken a lot of time off just for my work that was, you know, I was coming out of the plane stuff and I was at a restaurant with a friend, um, in Venice, California.

And we were sitting at a table at the bar and um, a woman walked up to the table with a gentleman she was with because my friend and Mike's friend went to high school and college together. Okay. And so they started talking and so Mike was with her. And so we just started talking and it was seven minutes.

Wait, was he

with her, like with her?

Nope. We, or there was a friend. We were both friend.

Okay.

But we didn't know that.

Okay.

We just walked up to a table and so they, you know, we were just like, Hey, hey. And it was a seven minute conversation, no more than that with just Mike and I, and I wa I can still picture him walking through the window.

I, I can see him, what he was wearing, everything. And I just remember going, when I'm ready, I hope a guy like that shows up. And I knew that in seven minutes. Like just, oh, he's so good. And, um, I mean, there's a million things that I can say, uh, about Mike, but I, I know when we talked about we weren't having kids and we were like, okay, it's just us.

So we made the commitment that we had to grow something. If we're not growing children, what are we growing? And so we said we have to grow the relationship. The relationship has to be the baby. And so we water it constantly. And, and Mike is there, there is not a like couple weeks span that goes by without Mike saying to me, am I am, are you getting everything you need from me?

And it's just, he's so intentional with our relationship as friends, as, um, as partners, as, you know, romantic and, and, and romantic, and not, you know, just the personal stuff. So anyway, I say all that to say that he is my best. Mike is the friend. My best friend, Mike is my guy. And everybody needs a mic.

Everybody needs a mic. And I can't believe the men I dated before. Like, I can't believe I, I didn't value people around me. And, uh, and I can't, I can't believe it. Like, it takes a trend, it takes a mic where you're just like that. You see how much work you have to do to know what kind of partner you deserve also, does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm gonna sing Mike's praises. Uh, I'm gonna add to one thing. He also does all the work that Trent tells him to do, to do all the crazy miles stuff, which is not easy. So someone's gotta jump through the hoops that Trent comes up with to do the miles. So put that on that list.

Darren, I don't even know as well. I was worried You're gonna be like, you. Great trip you're doing. I'm like,

I,

he

just gives me the itinerary. He's so good at He's a producer. Yeah, he produces,

yes. So, and if you knew how many things he had to do in order to, anyhow, just, we just leave those boys in the other room to do all those things.

Um, I love it. I'm just gonna share this one thing because it made such an impact in my life. Um, after a huge string of just terrible choices, a friend said to me, do you have good friends? And I said, yes. And she goes, it seems like you make friends effortlessly. I said, yes. And she said, did it ever occur to you to hold any romantic relationship to the same standards that you hold your friendships to?

I looked back and it was embarrassing. It was like, Hmm, I would've not been friends with any of these guys that I was, whatever. So anyhow, like be a, be a, that you need to be, have a good friend,

be a be a good

friend.

Can I add one to that? Because I hope somebody needs to hear this. Um, 'cause I would do a conversation about this all day of like, just good man.

Right. You know, like a good a, a good relationship.

The next time you come back, we'll do just a good men. Okay.

It, it's so needed right now, more than ever. Mm-hmm. But, um, I did an assignment when I wasn't dating and mm-hmm. The first thing that you do is you write down everything you're looking for, uh, in a partner.

Mm-hmm. And you read it kind uniformly. So it, it could be two things. It could be 110 things. I probably, you know, had 70 something things. And

Yeah,

you write it down like, I want a partner who is my best friend. I want a partner who challenges me. I want a partner who cheers for me. I want a partner who makes me whatever, whatever it is.

Yeah. You write all of that and so. I didn't know part two, but, so I finished that. And then part two is rewrite everything, but it's now in yourself. Mm-hmm. So I wanna be my own best friend. I wanna cheer my, I wanna be my biggest cheerleader. I want to show myself compassion. And then after you write that list, you go back and you circle everything.

That's true. And so Darren, I went back and I couldn't circle one. And so the whole thing was how can you give someone that list and go, give me all of this when I don't even give myself any of it. So along with the net, what it was holding my ma my magnet was my list. And I wouldn't date until I checked everything off.

And so like just, you know, the magic of the universe, my mom, God, whatever you wanna call it, um, magic of the work. Mike showed up right when I checked off my last thing. And I always say it isn't magic, it was just for the first time I was really clear on what I needed and what I wanted. Yeah. And I was giving it to myself.

So. I loved that Mike told me how amazing I was, but I knew it and I didn't knew I didn't know it before, I didn't think I was at all. So, so I love that with what your friend said, and also this, um, just doing the work on yourself before you find someone is so important and I didn't know work on that.

Beautiful, beautiful. After that. Incredibly wise, deep, this, this, um, very intimate conversation that we've had. I love to wrap things up on a very super superficial note. And so I like to know the thing that you're recommending to friends right now. It could be a book, a beauty product, a um, social media account, a uh, a movie, anything.

What are you telling friends about a recipe?

No, no. My recipe would be Chipotle. Um, that's

a thing.

Um, if I was going serious, which I know we're not, but. It, but I'm obsessed with it now, with, um, with what, uh, Japanese culture, uh, they call menopause. And it's koki wait con, I think it's Koki. Koki.

Mm-hmm.

And how they view menopause in the stage of life is that it's not a time of decline, which is the west, you know?

Right. Like what we say. Mm-hmm. It's all about a second spring, or they call it a second life. So I, I say that to say anything koki, anything that views women aging as growth and tapping into our wisdom. And the second time I pass that along to every woman and, and my good men too, like, celebrate your women.

Here's a good, good thing too, but I can't get enough. They call it an energy season. And I'm in it, and you're in it. And so mm-hmm. Anything that celebrates energy season and renewal, I'm in. But on a lighter note. Miramar Jeans have changed my life. Do you know Miramar?

I do not. No. See, this is where we have to recommend things.

Miramar jeans.

So, and part of this energy season, um, your body changes. Mm-hmm. And so I never step on a scale. I hate a number, but you always know how you feel in your jeans. Like that's always kind of it. And that's the one thing me and my friends always talk about is just we wanna get rid of our old genes.

'cause it makes you compare how your old body felt in those genes. And then it's hard to find new genes right now. And just talking about like, God genes are in our head trying to live our best second chapter. And that konecky

gene, we

need some connect jeans. Oh yes. So this, this is what these are. So Rag and bone has a material called Miramar, and it's sweatpants, but it's a denim.

And so,

okay.

It is the greatest jean. It is so flattering for it's magic jeans. Every, every woman that puts it on it looks so great, but they're sweatpants. And so what's not to love? There's, they're my, they started out as my travel jean now. I wear 'em all the time and I can't tell you the compliments. And I'm constantly saying to people, touch 'em, touch 'em.

They're sweats. Touch 'em,

touch my butt. Touch my butt.

It's okay. But for any, for any women watching this, especially closer to our age, but my young girls get it too. Miramar Jeans from Rag and Bar Miramar Jeans, you'll feel so lemme write that down. Good in them. And there's, it's just every woman I know who gets 'em, they'll always send pictures to me and they're like, I feel so sexy.

And they're the best

done. So we will have links to Miramar jeans, um, laura oakman.com that gets anybody like you or Galvanize or that's how they can find all that information and all those things. I think we came up with like six more podcasts we're gonna do. That we need to do because we have so much to talk about and make up for lost time.

And because I just love hearing your perspective.

Uh, you are wonderful. I've always, God, I've always been such a fan of yours. I've just, I've loved who you are. You're how you've always been so good at what you do, but how you've, you're who, you're, who your do's always been amazing, but your who has always been this, and I feel like I had to grow into this, you know, and I, and I don't know, I don't know who you were at that time and if there i I in all, in the battles that you were fighting that I didn't know about, but I just always know you did everything with such class and grace.

And so I love that the Darren that I knew, you know, however long, 20, 20, 25 years ago is the exact 30 maybe same person it might have been, but you're the exact person sitting here and, and I love, I I, I loved conversations with you then and I really appreciate them now.

Well, right back at you, friend.

Thank you so much. And whatever you need for Galvanize, if you need any. Whatever you got. You got my number. Mike has my number. He can find me.

Tell Trent trip to Nashville. Yes, please. You will be, you will be making one.

You got it. Thank you. Talk soon. You Thanks for having me. Thank you friend. Thank you. I will tell you what the hardest part of that entire conversation was and of my entire day.

And that was saying goodbye because I could have talked to Laura for like 12 more hours, but eventually if you're a friend, you have to say, I've taken enough of your time and and you can go. So, um, I will be thinking though about what she had to say well into this evening and well for a very long time.

And I think the thing that I'm gonna be thinking about kind of the most is what she was talking about, the magnet on her refrigerator leap and the net will appear. One thing I just really admire about Laura is that she did take that chance most recently where she had this. Great job with Fox doing NFL side live reporting.

And boy, so many people would just kill to have that job. But she knew she was done and so she left to go do something else. Me, I don't think I've ever done anything like that. Now I'm the one who, if you break up with me, if you fire me, if I get kicked on my ass, I will pick myself up and I will start over.

But the idea that I would just say, oh, well this is good and I'm gonna go do something else, I, I just never, never been my strength, which means I probably have stayed in places and in re in relationships longer than I ever should have. Probably the biggest. And so I'm gonna be thinking about that is my point.

And I would hope that you would be thinking about that, the leaping in the net and do you need the net? And when do you leave and when do you leap? That's the thought for the week. My biggest leap of this last year has been starting this podcast and I think I did leap without an net. Um, I left thinking, all right, I will start the podcast and the sponsors will arrive, and we're almost a year into it.

And you might notice, except for Miss Lee's cabin, we don't have that sponsor yet. Um, I think we're really close. The team says we're close. So fingers crossed. I just like to be transparent and say we are trying and we're trying to put it together and, um, I sure would like for that net to show up soon.

Keep those thoughts. Meanwhile, how you can support this podcast if you're not a major sponsor. It's so simple. You can go on YouTube and subscribe. We are so, so close to monetizing on YouTube. You can write a comment, you can share, you can like. And you can listen really, you would be shocked how much of a support that is.

So that is my ask for the week. You can always get in touch with me to let me know what you think about anything you heard on the podcast about somebody who you think would be a great guest, um, about asking for a friend if you would like to submit, ask for a friend. It's so simple. All you have to do is call me.

So stick around and give support and we'll chat soon. Thanks so much. Thank you friend. You've been listening to Call me Friend. Executive producers for the show are Callen Kagan and me, Darren Kagan. The show is produced by Producer, podcast and Journeys Inc. Production by Abe Fallek, Tammy Gano and Rob Pa.

Before you Go, call Me Friend is more than a podcast. It's a community. So head over to call me friend podcast.com to join the conversation. Or you can call or send a text to 9 1 2 7 6 6 0 4 4 6 and you can leave Darren a message there or maybe even share a story of your own, because when life gets real, you don't have to go it alone.

Call a friend. Call this friend.