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Jenny Lytle - #23 - May 31, 2025
Episode 2331st May 2025 • The Neurostimulation Podcast • Dr. Michael Passmore
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Neurostimulation Podcast: Self-Care for Caregivers with Jenny Lytle

Welcome to the Neurostimulation Podcast! In this episode, we explore the intersection of neuroscience, clinical neurostimulation, and self-care for caregivers. Host Michael welcomes Jenny Lytle, an experienced hospice nurse and author of 'Self-Care Isn't Selfish.' They discuss Jenny's journey to prioritizing self-care, her BECOMING method, and practical tips to avoid burnout. This episode is perfect for healthcare professionals, caregivers, and anyone interested in improving their mental and emotional well-being.

https://www.selfcareisntselfish.com/

00:00 Introduction to the Neurostimulation Podcast

01:44 Meet Jenny Lytle: A Journey of Self-Discovery

03:00 The Importance of Self-Care for Caregivers

05:18 Balancing Caregiving and Self-Care

12:01 The BECOMING Method: Personalized Self-Care

18:13 Jenny's Book: Self-Care Isn't Selfish

20:43 Personal Reflections and Lessons Learned

24:54 Honoring a Loved One's Memory

25:12 Balancing Caregiving and Self-Care

26:11 Practical Self-Care Tips

27:36 The Power of Gratitude

29:47 Inspiration from Hospice Care

32:08 Faith and Spirituality in Self-Care

40:49 The Journey of Becoming

45:48 Resources and Final Thoughts

48:38 Podcast Conclusion

Transcripts

Lyttle Intro:

Welcome to the Neurostimulation podcast.

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The Neurostimulation podcast is

all about exploring the fascinating

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world of neuroscience in general

and clinical neurostimulation in

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particular, how it works, the latest

research breakthroughs, and most

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importantly, how that research is being

translated into real world treatments

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that can improve health and wellness.

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Whether you're a healthcare professional,

a researcher, a student, or just someone

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who's curious about how our brains

work and what we can do to help them

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work better, this podcast is for you.

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My mission with this podcast is

to make neuroscience accessible,

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inspiring, and relevant to your life.

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This podcast is separate from my

clinical and academic roles, and

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is part of my personal effort to

bring neuroscience education to

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the general public free of charge.

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Accordingly, it's important that I

emphasize that the information shared in

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the podcast is intended for educational

purposes only and not as medical advice.

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Always consult with your own healthcare

provider to discuss your specific

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health needs and treatment options.

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This episode is presented by

ZIP Stim Neurostimulation.

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Zip Stim is the neurostimulation

clinic that I own and operate.

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For more information about our

neurostimulation programs, you

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can check us out at zipstim.com.

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That's Z-I-P-S-T-I M.com.

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Today I'm really excited to talk to

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Jenny Lytle.

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Jenny is a nurse with over

30 years of experience in

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hospice and end of life care.

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She experienced a profound shift

when her mother, who was also

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a nurse, suddenly passed away.

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In her grief, Jenny realized that

her mom, like so many nurses,

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had prioritized everyone else at

the expense of her own wellbeing.

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Determined to break that cycle.

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Jenny embarked on a journey of

self-discovery, embracing coaching,

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and personalized self-care.

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She found that caring for others really

does begin with caring for yourself.

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Now Jenny is the author of Self-Care

Isn't Selfish: The Compassionate Nurses

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Step-by-Step Guide to Stress Relief.

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Jenny helps nurses and other

caregivers through her proprietary

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BECOMING method, providing practical,

personalized strategies to manage stress,

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prioritize self-care, and continue

caring for others with greater impact.

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Jenny's message really is

that self-care isn't selfish.

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It's essential if we want to continue to

care for others and live our best lives.

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Mike: Welcome back to the

Neurostimulation podcast.

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Thanks again for joining us.

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Jenny: Thank you so much.

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I appreciate I appreciate

the opportunity, Michael

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Mike: So Jenny, could you please just

maybe introduce yourself, tell us a

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little bit about your background, and

then we can get into understanding

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more about your expertise and your

work and your book especially.

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I would, I really would like to

talk about your book and make sure

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that everyone knows about that.

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Jenny: Sure.

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Thank you.

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So my name's Jenny and I have

been a nurse for 30 years.

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I'm a wife and a mom and getting

ready to be 50, so that's exciting.

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My forties have been my best

and I'm just assuming my fifties

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are gonna be even better.

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So I'm I'm looking forward to that.

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But I, yes, been a nurse for 30 years.

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Most of that 19 years now has been

in hospice and end of life care.

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And so that has, that's something that

I fell into, didn't really anticipate

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being in that, but have loved it.

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I still work part-time in in

hospice care, but I found that

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it was very easy to to neglect my

own needs and my family's needs.

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And because I got a lot of fulfillment

out of my work and, it's great when we

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do that because not everybody can say

that, there's some people that work

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as just a, something they have to do.

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And I really did enjoy

the work that I was doing.

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But but it tipped in the other direction

and I really found myself, a lot of my

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identity was tied up in, in my work.

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And I didn't realize that until later

when I went through burnout myself,

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when I finally decided to leave.

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And then I realized, you know what?

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I don't know who I am.

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And and that's actually how I start

my how I start my book was who I am.

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I and that led me on a journey

to, to figuring things out.

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And then my mom passed away

and that was pretty sudden.

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And she was a caregiver who

gave, to everyone but herself.

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And so that just has made me really

passionate about helping others

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see the importance of self-care

and stress relief, and that, that

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it's not always what we think.

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And it doesn't have to be a full-time job.

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It doesn't, it doesn't

mean you're selfish.

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It's the only way that you can continue to

care for others and live your best life.

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Mike: Yeah, no, thanks

for explaining that.

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It really resonates.

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Yeah, I think all caregivers would

really resonate with that story for sure.

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Especially, after I think many caregivers,

I expect maybe most would potentially

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start out on a career very excited and

idealistic and feeling as a, I think

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a lot of caregivers end up devoting

themselves in that sense to wanting to

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help others and feel as though just part

of the job involves a degree of sacrifice.

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But then how do you balance that

with not becoming burnt out is

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really the key is you have to,

you're forced to learn over time.

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Are there particular lessons along those

lines that, that kind of experience

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has taught you about how people are

best able to balance these things as

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they, caregivers as well as others?

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I think to, to an extent, everyone, as

social creatures, we're all involved with

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caring for others just in our day-to-day

social relationships with others, but

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particularly healthcare providers.

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When we talk about caregivers,

are there specific lessons that

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experience has taught you that you

try to share with others so that

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they perhaps can, from learn from

your experiences in order to perhaps

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avoid the risk of burnout as you say?

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Jenny: Yeah.

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And I do agree that, we are social we all

have that that bit of wiring for caring

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for others and helping other people,

but, people who truly are the caregiver

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types, whether it's, professionally

or that's just part of who you are,

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then it kicks it up a notch for sure.

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And with that, you feel like, okay,

I don't have time to take care of me.

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I'm too busy taking care of them,

or, it really, that's really

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what fulfills me is doing that.

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And there is, there definitely

is that component of it for sure.

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But when we give and give and we don't

take that time to reflect, when we don't

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take that time to fill our own cup, then

that's when it gets that's when it gets

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dangerous because we can only give so

much before we become depleted, and like

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you were talking about and the people who

do that over and over it, it's like when

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you get on an airplane, I just went on a

trip and whenever they do the, the oxygen

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mask talk, I'm like that right there.

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Because it's so counterintuitive to, when

there's people who need you, you hear them

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talk about the oxygen mask on a plane and.

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If you're with small children

or somebody that needs help, put

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your own oxygen mask on first.

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And it's of course I'm not gonna do that.

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These people, they can't do it

themselves, but but when you really look

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at that, it's because we have to be,

we have to take care of ourselves or

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we can't continue to care for others.

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Yeah.

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And so I think that a lot of it is

taking the things that maybe we're,

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we've been taught from, different

generations and, men do it too, but

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women especially, have been caregivers

and you take care of everybody else.

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You neglect every, you neglect your

own needs so that you can help other

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people and, and really thinking about

what would happen if I wasn't here?

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I recently was talking to a

fellow nurse and she said, I

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don't have time for self-care.

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And she's somebody that's raising

she's raising her grandkids and

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she's got a lot of things going on.

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And it's that's all the more

reason why you really need to

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take care of yourself because you

do have people counting on you.

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And so it's those little

subtle shifts I think that that

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really can make a difference.

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And sometimes we wear this, busyness

and the fact that we're always

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giving and serving others, we can

wear that as a badge of honor.

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And I think that's something that's

starting to turn around a little bit

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as people realize, in the mental health

realm and all of that, that we've

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gotta take care of our own needs too.

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And it doesn't have to be something that

means you're excluding everybody else.

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I'm not a proponent of being selfish.

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I believe that we can care for others

better when we do care for ourselves.

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Mike: Yeah.

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Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.

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I think I really like that I, the idea

about the oxygen mask on a flight.

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'cause it really, it is counterintuitive.

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I I agree.

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I think I had that initial reaction, when

I started flying, I thought, yeah, that

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seems strange, but it does it, the, it

just occurred to me as you were describing

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that, that it really does reflect the

importance of, even at the outset,

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making self-care the first priority.

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Because in a way you have to, in order

to even just get gas in your tank, right?

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To be able to offer help to others.

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And it also reminds me of

something that was really.

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Profoundly impactful in terms of

figuring out parenting, right?

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It's of course you think parenting is

in a way the ultimate caregiving role

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and you wanna do everything you can to

try to be the best parent that you can.

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And out of this sort of, really

profound love for the child, right?

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But on the other hand, that message that

one of the best things that you can give

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to your child is for them to see you happy

and to see you caring for yourself as a

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way of modeling the importance of that.

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In a way that was a really profound

permission to say, okay as much as it's

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possible, especially, with a really

young kid baby, basically when they're

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in need of that care all the time.

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But to just try as much as one can

to fit self care into the picture

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is so important in that role.

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Jenny: Absolutely.

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And that's, that's one of the things

that I do say as well, is that of

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course, there are different levels of

that and there are exceptions, like you

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mentioned with, with an infant or if

you're caring for someone that is, elderly

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or incapacitated in some way and truly

has to have that, 24 7 eyes on you care

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then that's gonna look different than if

are a part-time caregiver for someone,

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or if you're working in a caregiving

capacity or you have older children.

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Just figuring out like

what that looks like.

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And that's where I really e

encourage a personalized approach

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to that instead of thinking of,

self care is one size fits all.

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Looking at what is it that,

that I know fills me up?

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What are the things or the people

that I know when I'm around them

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or when I do them that I feel

better and I feel more relaxed.

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I feel less stressed.

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And how often are you doing those things?

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And just being conscious of that.

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And really that starts with just

checking in with yourself instead of

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just pushing through the next thing.

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Slowing down and just thinking, okay, you

know what, like how am I really right now?

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Mike: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That makes a lot of sense.

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It does because there, there is a t

because it can be rewarding on the

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one hand, especially for folks who

have that wiring to wanna help others.

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And perhaps, obviously there is gonna

be some degree of self-sacrifice that's

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necessary with a caregiving role.

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And in general, I think that's

generally something that reflects

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maturity and it's adaptive.

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But when that becomes

almost too much of a.

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Default then, people will have that

tendency to neglect that voice inside that

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says, Hey, I'm getting tired, or, Hey,

I need a break, or what have you, right?

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I'm curious though, I think that's

key in terms of what you just

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mentioned about the personalization.

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Can you expand on that a little

and maybe talk a bit about your.

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I'm interested to hear more about your

becoming method and the acronym and how

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that all relates to the personalization.

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I expect that's part of it.

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Jenny: Yes.

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Yes it is.

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Yeah.

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When I first was on my own journey, when

I had left my first hospice job and at

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first I felt the sense of freedom and then

I thought, wait a minute, now, who am I?

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And I went into a dark place of

trying to figure out what my life

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was supposed to look like then.

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And part of that was, part of that

was the job and leaving that it

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had been a very big part of my

life and the people there as well.

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I started when the company was small and

so it was like a dysfunctional family.

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It was hard to leave that.

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And also my youngest sons were a junior

and senior in high school, so I was

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looking at all of that dynamic changing,

and there was a lot of, there was a lot

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of a lot of pieces moving at that point.

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So I fell into coaching.

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I didn't really, I didn't

really know much about that.

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But when I did find out a

little, I thought, you know what?

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I love this because I've always been

very interested in the way that people's

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minds work and people's emotions.

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And that's my favorite part of

nursing is the, the psychosocial

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and emotional and aspects of it.

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Not as much the physical stuff.

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So I went through my own kind of

trying to figure out like what is

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it that, that I need to be doing?

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And I looked outside a lot, in terms

of looking at different programs

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that people had and reading different

books and things and trying to figure

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out, the right way to, to do things.

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And what I figured out

over that time was that I.

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Some of the things that they

said to do weren't things that

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really seemed to do much for me.

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But when I took the time to think about

what is it that I really, when am I happy?

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When do I feel like calm and

peaceful and relaxed and energized?

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And when I started looking at

all of that and looking at the

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things that matter to me, then

that really changed things for me.

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And so I had named my when I formed

my coaching company I named it

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Becoming Your Best with Jenny Leal,

rn, because the, I think we're all in,

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all in progress where all these works

in, works in progress, in process.

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It's, we're always becoming, and that's

something that I, I don't feel like we

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ever arrive at where we're supposed to be.

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As long as we're breathing,

we're still evolving.

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And also, it's, becoming your best because

your best, and my best may be different.

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What we, what our capabilities are,

what our desires are, what, so there's

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a lot of personalization in that.

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And so when I started looking at

some of the things that, that I

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had worked through myself to figure

out, who am I, what do I want and

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what do I want my life to look like?

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I ended up being able to pull that

together in an acronym that kind of

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combines the work that I did there.

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And it's a, it's a loose translation

of the nursing process as well.

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And which, which that comes down to.

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So that's api.

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So assess, diagnose, plan,

implement, and evaluate.

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And so it's the same general

ideas with the becoming method.

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It's it's overall, it's where are

you now, where do you want to go

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and how are you gonna get there?

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But it breaks things down bit

by bit, starting with, B is

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baseline for where are you now?

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And so really taking a look at.

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How life is at this moment.

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Because sometimes, when we set off

to make a change, then it can be very

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very daunting when it's but there's

this and here's this stuff in my past.

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And all of those things, yes, are

true, but just getting a clear

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picture of where I am right now.

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And it's, like when you're

setting the GPS when you get in

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the car, first to get somewhere,

you need to know where you're at.

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Otherwise it's gonna be a,

it's gonna be a strange ride.

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Yeah.

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And then and then moving through, like

the e is excitement, the things that

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light me up and it, it's getting into

then, confidence the gifts that you have

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the skills, the talents, the, all of the

maybe education that plays into that.

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And looking also at your

values and your uniqueness.

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So the o is only you because, we all

do have those things that are special

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about us that sometimes we don't realize

because we just assume if we can do 'em

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well or if that's a, something that,

that we enjoy and others tell us that

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we're good at, everybody else can too.

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And that's just not true.

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There are, we have those unique

gifts that some of us are much

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better at than others, and.

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And then the things that mean

most to you, the m is meaning.

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So what makes your life meaningful

or what kinds of things would

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make life more meaningful?

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And then the I is intention,

what does that look like?

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Setting your intention for

what you want the rest of that

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to look like and his needs.

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So pulling all of that together, what is

it that you need to, maybe look at doing

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differently or things that things that you

can pull in that kind of help with that.

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And then the G's go it, it's a

matter of doing that and then just

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coming back and reevaluating it.

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Because it's not, again, with

that whole becoming thing,

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it's not a one and done thing.

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We learn, we grow life's life

changes seasons in our lives.

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They all.

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We all have different needs

and things that happen at that.

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So it's good to come back and

revisit that, and I just had

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to do that myself recently.

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Mike: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Fantastic.

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Thanks so much for explaining that.

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I think that I love acronyms.

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I think it's really it's very creative

and I think it's, sounds exactly

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like what would be very helpful.

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I know I could have used that

many years ago and I started to

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get into trouble with burnout and

compassion fatigue myself at work.

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Yeah, it's one of those things that's easy

to ignore and just dismiss for too long.

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Most of us do for too long,

and then you end up with.

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The implications, whether it's

irritability at home or just, health

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issues oneself and neglecting, your

healthy lifestyle issues because

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of feeling inclined to be working

too much and that kind of stuff.

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But your book then, so Self-Care

isn't Selfish, that's the title

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of your book, is that right?

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Jenny: Yes, it is.

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It's Self-Care Isn't Selfish.

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The Compassionate Nurses step-by-Step

Guide to Personalize Stress Relief.

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So yes, it's it's short.

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It's it's pretty to the point.

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It's something that's a very easy read.

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I wanted something that, that

would be accessible to people who

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who maybe think, you know what,

I don't have time for self-care.

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I don't have time to read a big old book.

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And it's written just the way I talk.

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It's not there's nothing incredibly

professional or profound.

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And that's what I say, it's a lot of the

things that, that I'm a big proponent

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of the things that I share and teach.

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We know a lot of it.

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And, I know me personally, there

have been many times when, I

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think, oh, I've heard that before.

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And then well, yeah, I've heard

it because it makes sense, but

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I've never actually done it.

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And so that, knowing something and doing

something are two very different things.

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And my book is my story of course.

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And I go into that some.

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And then the reasons why self care

and stress relief are important,

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but then just it's just several

chapters of, a page or two of here's

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practical things that, that you can do.

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And again, not all of them are gonna

apply to everybody because like for me, I

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know that massages are good for me, like.

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All the way around, mentally, physically

that's just, that's such a great, that,

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that's a great thing for me, and that's

what helps keep me functioning at my best.

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There's some people who don't

wanna be touched, and that's fine.

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I like being outside.

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I like starting my

mornings with devotions.

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That's not for everybody, but it's

figuring out what are those things.

353

:

And I think one of the, one of the keys

is trying to figure that out before you're

354

:

in the midst of burnout, before you're

in the midst of a crisis, because, that's

355

:

not when the house is on fire, is not

when you figure out the way to escape.

356

:

So that's, that's that's

my book in a nutshell.

357

:

Mike: Yeah.

358

:

Yeah.

359

:

No, it sounds awesome.

360

:

I think, yeah it's tricky because there's

obviously, there's for and I can speak

361

:

from experience, just thinking about

how, in, in a way it's a, it's seductive

362

:

if you're wired a certain way, I think

in terms of your temperament and your

363

:

character, it can be seductive to want

to pour from that empty cup, so to speak.

364

:

As that metaphor goes and just feel

as though, like you said earlier, it's

365

:

part of many people's identity, right?

366

:

So they feel inclined to lean into

that, to the point that it becomes,

367

:

eventually becomes unhealthy.

368

:

I was really curious because it sounds

like one of your key insights is

369

:

this idea that neglecting self-care

can actually become a selfish act.

370

:

Maybe because it gets to the point

where someone is leaning into that,

371

:

but feels comfortable initially.

372

:

In, in, so that, in a selfish way

that, that, that ends up being.

373

:

Counterproductive.

374

:

Does that, is that kind of in keeping

with what that insight is about?

375

:

Or could you clarify

or correct me on that?

376

:

Jenny: Yes, so yes.

377

:

I think that it can be that

way where we get so much

378

:

satisfaction and, gratification

from what others are telling us.

379

:

Because part of it is, we have that just

like we feel good when we do it, but if

380

:

we're good at what we do, then a lot of

times people are telling us that, and that

381

:

was my, excuse me, that was my situation.

382

:

When I had first started in hospice

where I, at the time we had me, my

383

:

husband and I, we had six kids at home.

384

:

Kids don't often tell you

how great you are, especially

385

:

when they're boys and yeah.

386

:

I've noticed teenage.

387

:

Yeah.

388

:

You don't hear a lot of that.

389

:

And I always felt like I was

failing somehow, which I think

390

:

a lot of times as parents, we

feel like we're not doing enough.

391

:

And, but then when I started working in

hospice, I, my patients and families,

392

:

they loved me and they told me how

great I was and how helpful I was.

393

:

They don't know what they

would've done without me.

394

:

That real, that felt good.

395

:

And so then of course, these people who,

they really need me and we have this bond,

396

:

and yes, the rest of my team's great, but

they're not bonded with them like I am.

397

:

And so I would.

398

:

I was on call for my patients all

the time, we we had call teams but I

399

:

was like no, just call me, I already

know what's going on and all that.

400

:

I'd go visit 'em in the middle of

the night, whether I was on call

401

:

or not, if they needed something.

402

:

And then that just carried

over into when, when somebody

403

:

needed to actually be on call.

404

:

If somebody wasn't able to

do it or was sick or whatever

405

:

then I'd be like I'll do it.

406

:

Because somebody had to and I just

had really bad boundaries, so I

407

:

was frequently the one to do that.

408

:

And then, in, in doing that, in

getting my own needs met in some

409

:

ways, with all of that, I neglected

my family and I, my husband.

410

:

He was supportive and always has

been of whatever I wanted to do.

411

:

And my kids were understanding.

412

:

But in reality I wasn't there a lot

of time when I should have been.

413

:

And that's because I felt

good doing what I was doing.

414

:

And and there could have been other

people that would've picked up the

415

:

slack, it didn't always have to be me,

even though it felt like it at the time.

416

:

And my mom, she.

417

:

She was also a nurse.

418

:

And she had some health issues and

she had she was on disability, so

419

:

she hadn't been working for a while

but she was still very involved with

420

:

trying to meet everybody's needs.

421

:

And she would get on different

Facebook groups and things like that

422

:

where, you know, where people would

be like, oh, I need this for my kids.

423

:

And my mom would be trying

to match 'em up with people.

424

:

And she did so much of that, that that

she didn't always have time for us

425

:

when we, wanted to do things, which I,

and I'm not, that definitely went both

426

:

ways, but she neglected her own needs

so much, her own health so much that.

427

:

I really believe that a lot of that is

what contributed to her early death.

428

:

She died at 61 of a ruptured

brain aneurysm, and That's great.

429

:

Thank you.

430

:

I and it's so I went through a lot

of, a lot of regular grieving, a lot

431

:

of anger and frustration and sadness

and it's just I wish that she would

432

:

have taken better care of herself.

433

:

I wish that I would have encouraged her

to take better care of herself, other

434

:

than, maybe just saying you need to

take better care yourself, but maybe

435

:

a little more compassionately, shared

some of that because, now I'm without

436

:

my mom and my kids don't have their

grandma and so it's just it's not a

437

:

thing that just affects us in the moment.

438

:

Mike: Yeah.

439

:

Yeah.

440

:

Thanks so much for sharing your

story and again, my condolences

441

:

for your Thank you, your loss.

442

:

And I think it's, but it is, I can see

how in what you're doing in this work

443

:

it's honoring your mom's memory in terms

of what you're doing to help others.

444

:

And I think that really speaks volumes

because I think a lot of us in the.

445

:

In that situation where we say whether

it's being stuck in between maybe stuck

446

:

iss not the best term, but yeah, I

suppose you feel that way sometimes,

447

:

but you're like, a lot of people in this

generation, particularly they call the

448

:

sandwich generation maybe in between

caring for younger kids and aging parents.

449

:

So whether it's that at home and or a

caregiving role at work feeling like they

450

:

just simply don't have time for self-care.

451

:

If someone comes back with that

kind of retort, then what would

452

:

you typically say to them?

453

:

Is it just, does it just come back

to this whole notion that if you.

454

:

That mentality that it's a non-starter

and it's very likely to lead to

455

:

burnout, or how would you approach it

if someone just says, look, I don't

456

:

have time for self care, end of story.

457

:

Jenny: And I, again, I know that it, that

people do have different circumstances

458

:

and like you said, especially those

who are caring for, caring for parents

459

:

and caring for children at the same

time, and, most of the time working as

460

:

well and trying to balance all of that.

461

:

I'm not saying that it's easy at all,

and I don't, I don't ever want anybody

462

:

to think that I'm saying just make it

happen, but I do believe that sometimes

463

:

when we think of self-care or we think

of, okay, I need to do these things

464

:

for me, that it needs to be something.

465

:

Elaborate that it needs to be something

incredibly time consuming or expensive.

466

:

And I'm all about beach vacations

and spa days too, but the reality is

467

:

those don't fit into our daily lives.

468

:

For some of us, those don't

fit into our lives at all.

469

:

And so it's finding those little

things that, that really have more

470

:

of an impact long term than maybe

some of the bigger things do.

471

:

So things like, breathing taking

time to take a few deep breaths.

472

:

And I encourage people, if the only

time that you've got to yourself is when

473

:

you're in the bathroom, and sometimes if

you have little kids, I know that's not

474

:

even to yourself just taking three or

four deep breaths while you're in there,

475

:

the world is not going to stop while

you have that extra, 60 seconds of time.

476

:

But it really can help to reregulate

your nervous system and, just to

477

:

remind you that, hey, like I matter.

478

:

And so things like that maybe it's

going outside and, getting your feet in

479

:

the grass or just taking a few breaths

or looking around and seeing, Hey,

480

:

here's the trees, here's the birds.

481

:

And just having that little

mini break from the norm.

482

:

Doing things like focusing on gratitude

because there's times when that's hard

483

:

because it seems like everything is

awful and it's all kind of coming down

484

:

on you and really focusing on those

little things that that are good.

485

:

And it may be as simple as, a cup

of coffee or you saw a hummingbird

486

:

the hummingbirds just came here.

487

:

So it's exciting to to see them.

488

:

But, maybe somebody paid you a compliment

and noticed something that you did.

489

:

But those little things like that

can really have a big impact.

490

:

And I.

491

:

The people who, push back on that.

492

:

I just encourage 'em, just

try it for a week or so,

493

:

and just see what that looks like.

494

:

And then definitely, if you're able to

to fit in sleep and really prioritize

495

:

sleep, of course, you know how important

sleep is, that's when we, that's when our

496

:

bodies really rejuvenate and heal and if

there are ways to make sure that you're

497

:

getting sleep, if there's people that,

maybe can help out a little bit with some

498

:

of those times where you're able to get

some good sleep and nutrition, making

499

:

sure that you're eating and drinking

water and getting some kind of exercise.

500

:

It's all of those basic things that

501

:

Just adding them in little bits at a

time and having grace with yourself

502

:

too, because there's gonna be days

when maybe it all doesn't come together

503

:

nice and neat, and all you can do is

remember to, okay, you know what, I

504

:

probably took a breath when I was in

the bathroom and I don't know what else

505

:

I fit in today, but just, coming back

to the things that that do matter and

506

:

hopefully having some people in your

corner too that you know, somebody that

507

:

you can just talk to, be yourself with.

508

:

Share the struggles that

you're going through.

509

:

And and just knowing that you're.

510

:

That you're not alone.

511

:

Mike: Because

512

:

Jenny: it can feel lonely.

513

:

Mike: Yeah, for sure.

514

:

No, I thanks so much.

515

:

Those are fantastic tips on accessible

ways of just breaking the cycle

516

:

and just allowing some room for the

importance of those, especially the

517

:

gratitude piece that's so important.

518

:

I, and it came to mind that I wondered if

maybe your experience in hospice care, is

519

:

part of what, what brought that insight?

520

:

Because I can imagine, and I've certainly

learned a lot from patients that I've

521

:

looked after, who've been facing end of

life issues in terms of how they've come

522

:

to be intentional about gratitude, w hen

obviously things are in general dark.

523

:

And there's a lot of anxiety.

524

:

But the, what helps to, counterbalance

that, or act as an antidote to the

525

:

anxiety in particular, is to really

be intentional about gratitude.

526

:

Jenny: Yes, it is.

527

:

It's something that, of course we're

wired to focus on the negative to keep

528

:

us safe, when we look for those little

things that that are good, that are going

529

:

well in our lives and even in the midst of

lots of things not going well, then, that

530

:

reminds us there is still good out there.

531

:

And I had a friend who she was a nurse

as well, and actually she was one of

532

:

the the founders of my first hospice.

533

:

And we became good friends and

we traveled together and stuff.

534

:

And she was just, she was wonderful.

535

:

And she she was diagnosed with

cancer and things progressed very

536

:

quickly and she, her whole I.

537

:

Her whole attitude through the

whole thing was just amazing.

538

:

She had a very strong faith as well.

539

:

But she had a lot to live for, she had

great friends and kids and grandkids

540

:

and was very involved in all of that.

541

:

And but she just, she died with so much

like love and grace and peace that it was

542

:

it was very inspiring to, to see that.

543

:

And she never, there was never any why me?

544

:

There wasn't really any anger to it.

545

:

It just, it was.

546

:

It was exceptional.

547

:

The way that it all

went, and I don't know.

548

:

I don't know that I would be that strong.

549

:

But it was beautiful.

550

:

And I think that made it easier for

those of us who loved her because we were

551

:

able to, she was so at peace with it.

552

:

It was hard to, it was hard

to fight it, it's, yeah.

553

:

If she's okay with it then and there

wasn't, there wasn't anything that,

554

:

that she could have really done to

change it, she but it was but it was

555

:

something just to, to see that and

the power of gratitude and mindset

556

:

and what a difference that can make.

557

:

Mike: Yeah, for sure.

558

:

I think it's, it, yeah.

559

:

It's there obviously there.

560

:

Psychological components,

but spiritual as well.

561

:

I think it, it's understandable that

you're using terms like grace and faith,

562

:

and I'm curious that, how have you found

that faith or spirituality regardless

563

:

of, one's worldview or religious

background, I'm just curious about how

564

:

the, let's use the term spirituality then.

565

:

Is it something, yeah.

566

:

To what extent has that been

something that you've found for

567

:

yourself and for folks that you've

worked with and you've coached to?

568

:

Really yeah.

569

:

To help them to promote or recognize the

importance of self-care and to put that

570

:

recognition into action for themselves.

571

:

Jenny: Yeah.

572

:

So I, that's interesting.

573

:

The way that you asked

that, that's interesting.

574

:

And I, I am, I'm a Jesus follower.

575

:

That's that's who I am, who I've

been for really since I was young

576

:

and then straight away for a while.

577

:

But that's something that

gives me a it gives me a lot of

578

:

peace and comfort and guidance.

579

:

I feel and I know that, that not

everybody agrees with that, that I don't

580

:

share the same views with everybody.

581

:

And that's okay.

582

:

That's one of my, I feel like that's

one of my big goals is that I want

583

:

people to know that, like regardless

of what they believe I love and respect

584

:

them and, you don't have to agree with

me to for, to be one of my people.

585

:

And so for me, it's just, I know that

when I start trying to do too much

586

:

on my own and when I don't really,

when I don't really stay connected

587

:

to my faith on a regular basis.

588

:

When I when I start getting, I don't

really know exactly how to say it.

589

:

Like I know that, you know of a

morning when I start my time with

590

:

God, when I start my time with

devotions, my day goes better.

591

:

But life happens.

592

:

It gets busy.

593

:

And there's times when I, when

I go away from that and when I

594

:

do I just feel more unsettled.

595

:

Yeah.

596

:

And so I know that's something that's

important to me and for others, it

597

:

may be a different, particular I.

598

:

Faith or organized religion type thing.

599

:

Or it may be more of a, of an outside,

being in nature kind of thing.

600

:

But it's figuring out those things

that, really do fill you up and that,

601

:

that make you better, that you feel

that you feel more connected in.

602

:

Those are the things that I

think we need to lean into.

603

:

And a lot of that is an

intuition type thing.

604

:

And actually, I just wrote this week

about intuition and following our gut

605

:

because I had, I was looking at maybe a

different hospice role, and it was with

606

:

a different company and there were a lot

of things that were exciting about it.

607

:

And it sounded, it sounded like

a good opportunity, but I just

608

:

didn't have peace about it.

609

:

And that's, that's a big thing to

me is, there's times when I feel

610

:

like God lets me know things.

611

:

Very specifically.

612

:

And there's other times when it's

just that sense of, okay, when

613

:

everything's good, like I just okay,

I don't know, but it's all gonna work

614

:

out and I just feel good about it.

615

:

And with this, I just I

didn't I couldn't get that.

616

:

And so I turned down the position

and I said, look, this isn't, this

617

:

just isn't something that I can do.

618

:

And I think it's great.

619

:

I'm, I hope you guys find a, the

perfect candidate but it's not me.

620

:

And and so I think learning to, to tune

into that a little bit more is is helpful.

621

:

And just to trust that when you

feel it, even when it doesn't

622

:

always make sense to others.

623

:

Mike: Yeah.

624

:

Yeah.

625

:

No, I yeah, thanks for explaining

that and I guess it's interesting

626

:

as I even just reflect on how I

ask the question and your answer.

627

:

'cause I share your Christian faith

and I think part of what I'm challenged

628

:

with here, in that, in the hesitation

that I had with the question and at work

629

:

for sure, and particularly Vancouver,

which is known to be hyper secular.

630

:

And even though I work at a, historically

a Catholic healthcare institution

631

:

it's still something that you're not

really supposed to, or it's certainly

632

:

something that's typically not.

633

:

Comfortable to bring up at work as far as

like they talk about the importance, as

634

:

of the bio-psychosocial spiritual model.

635

:

Healthcare and mental healthcare,

I suppose in particular.

636

:

But the spiritual side of it is

almost just like an afterthought.

637

:

And it's awkward to bring up in certain

cases, but I suppose how, and exactly

638

:

what you just explained in terms of part

of the personalization of the approach

639

:

is to just try and align it with the

client's world view, whatever that is.

640

:

And as you say it's, if it's, if it is

strictly secular, maybe that relates to

641

:

how they might define spirituality for

themselves in terms of being in nature

642

:

or whatever it is that, that brings that

sense of, i, I don't know, transcendence

643

:

or however you might describe it.

644

:

Jenny: And I, I do, I think it's

something that, that it is, it's easy

645

:

to be uncomfortable with because there

are so many, there are so many people

646

:

who have had such bad experiences.

647

:

I think with with Christians that they,

that they don't want any part of that.

648

:

And so my, and I'm not saying

that I've got it all figured out

649

:

or that I'm better than that.

650

:

What, but I do believe, like I, I

believe that my job is to love people.

651

:

And if I'm loving people and if

I'm doing what I feel is right

652

:

then, I don't need to judge you.

653

:

I don't need to figure out if what you're

doing is, is something that I agree with.

654

:

If it's right or wrong,

like my job's to love you.

655

:

And if and when something needs

to change with you, I feel

656

:

like that's like God's job.

657

:

And but I just, I want people

to, I want people to know that

658

:

they're loved no matter what.

659

:

And I think that, there's so much that

goes on that that alienates people.

660

:

And.

661

:

I, especially when it

comes to, mental health.

662

:

Here our, suicide is a big thing

and it doesn't matter if I agree

663

:

with everything you're doing.

664

:

If you're not here than none

of that can, can change.

665

:

So I would rather err on the side of

loving and accepting someone and, and

666

:

maybe being part of a reason that they

think maybe there is a reason to go on.

667

:

And, the rest of that can get

figured out, but people just have

668

:

to know they're cared about and

669

:

And we don't all have to agree with each

other to to be kind and compassionate

670

:

and and I think that's something that

unfortunately is a little lacking

671

:

in the world, being able to have

differences and still, get along.

672

:

Mike: Yeah.

673

:

Yeah, for sure.

674

:

A hundred percent.

675

:

I think that's a really important

message these days, especially,

676

:

obviously, I think Yeah, for sure.

677

:

And just trying to bring

It doesn't have to.

678

:

Yeah, there doesn't have to be, 'cause

again, part of why I was just thinking

679

:

it's in some ways timely and who knows,

maybe it's just supposed to be that way.

680

:

But we just had a message the other day

at church about the issue of, being the

681

:

shining light on the hill, so to speak,

and how it's hard to do that again in,

682

:

in a society that's it's great in terms

of being pluralistic to multicultural.

683

:

And I suppose you get the secular

side of that, but then when there are

684

:

people from all different faiths, it's

really a blessing in a way to be able

685

:

to learn from them and to just find

commonalities and try to just see, okay,

686

:

what are, even though people may and

in fact do have different worldviews

687

:

and that's fine, then how can we find

commonalities and use what's healthy

688

:

about all of our different worldviews?

689

:

To just help to look after

ourselves and each other.

690

:

Jenny: And it's funny that you

said that because Yes, I agree.

691

:

And that's something, especially when

I was maybe a little more uncomfortable

692

:

with my faith or not feeling quite as

secure, I would, I would get a little

693

:

bit uncomfortable about having, looking

into other other faiths too much or,

694

:

like it was going to just sway me

in a way that I didn't want it to.

695

:

But and I definitely am not

an expert on any any religion.

696

:

But but what I found is that as I talk

to, different people from other cultures

697

:

and things like that, it just, it

makes me think of things differently.

698

:

It makes me question things, which

really just makes my faith deeper.

699

:

And that's one of the things that.

700

:

At our church that that we always say

is that, our pastor just started out

701

:

when our church started and said that,

I doubt, I don't believe that doubts and

702

:

questions are the enemy of our faith.

703

:

But but silence can be, because those

things, when we bring things to the

704

:

forefront and we have discussions like

this then it makes us think, oh, you

705

:

know what I hadn't thought of that.

706

:

Or, it kind of clarifies

things a little bit.

707

:

Or maybe there's something that, you

know, because there's a lot of things

708

:

in the Bible that makes you go, what?

709

:

And so having, having some conversations

around that and what that, what

710

:

things really meant contextually

and in the, in that time period and,

711

:

that can really make a difference.

712

:

Where if you just keep things quiet and

think you know what, that just doesn't

713

:

sit well with me, then then that can

have a different sort of impact on you.

714

:

Mike: Definitely a hundred percent.

715

:

No, and I guess, yeah, it makes me

think, coming back to your book, into

716

:

your program, the becoming program, I

guess if Yeah, in that sense, or just

717

:

not necessarily related to the spiritual

aspect, but just in, in general, I'm

718

:

just curious, what have you found in

your work with clients and in your

719

:

own experience, this idea of becoming,

again, I love the acronym what help

720

:

me understand, what does becoming mean

as far as how, let's say, how can each

721

:

of us start in that becoming journey?

722

:

So say we recognize that that, burnout

and, lack of self-care is an issue.

723

:

And in that sense of becoming and

just really discovering ourselves

724

:

and discovering that healthy balance.

725

:

Yeah.

726

:

What would be some initial first

steps that you would typically

727

:

encourage clients to, to try to.

728

:

Proceed through in terms of that

initial part of that journey.

729

:

Jenny: Yeah, I love that.

730

:

So it's the first step, I believe

is really just taking a look at

731

:

where, at, where you are right now.

732

:

So starting with that baseline, and

usually I do a I with clients or when

733

:

I'm doing workshops or whatever, I'll

do a wheel of life and have that, and

734

:

I don't know if everybody's familiar

with that, but, so it's a, a circle

735

:

that basically it's 10 concentric

circles that are together and.

736

:

And so you have the different

the different categories of

737

:

your life that are on there.

738

:

Maybe there's spiritual, like we were

just talking about in physical health

739

:

and mental health and relationships

and maybe it's like your significant

740

:

other relationship and your friends

and your finances and your your career.

741

:

And so looking at all of those

different areas and rating them from

742

:

one to 10, with one being, Hey, this

is not going well at all, and 10

743

:

being it couldn't be any better and.

744

:

Really looking at those things

and not overthinking it, but just

745

:

quickly putting down the first

thing that comes to your mind.

746

:

And I always, caution people to look,

if you rate your family a five, that

747

:

doesn't mean you don't love your family.

748

:

That just means you know,

that there's some things that

749

:

could use some work there.

750

:

And for areas that maybe don't

apply, like significant other if

751

:

you're not someone with a significant

other, then you can change that.

752

:

Or you can, look at that as, okay,

how do I feel about that situation?

753

:

Again, very personalized, but once

you've done that, then you're looking

754

:

at, if you draw a line to connect all

of those things, you're probably gonna

755

:

have some that are, in the upper numbers,

maybe some that are a little lower.

756

:

And so when you look at that, and

if that's your wheel, if that's

757

:

how you're getting through life,

you know how bumpy is your ride.

758

:

And it really helps to clarify that.

759

:

Usually there are some areas that

are good and some that aren't.

760

:

And we can over generalize and think,

either life's going great or it's awful.

761

:

And when we, when we break that down

and see those different those different

762

:

areas and we're able to really look at

that, then we can then figure out, okay,

763

:

so these areas are going pretty well, so

maybe like, why is that, what's, is it

764

:

because I'm spending more time in them?

765

:

Are there things that I can

learn from that maybe I can

766

:

use to bump up the other ones?

767

:

Or maybe I'm putting a lot of attention

on those and that's how it got there.

768

:

But now maybe can I back off a little

bit and move some of that attention over

769

:

to something that's a little bit lower?

770

:

So I think that's a great way

to, to get started and then just

771

:

working through what is it that I.

772

:

What is it that you want?

773

:

Because we're busy, we go through

life on autopilot most of the time.

774

:

We don't stop to think about, okay, we

know we want something to be different.

775

:

We just kinda have that feeling, but we

don't know what we want to be different.

776

:

And so starting to think about what is

it that, that you would like to change?

777

:

In what ways would you

like life to be different?

778

:

And just really starting

with all of that questioning.

779

:

And then, and then making just slow steps.

780

:

You don't have to do it all at once.

781

:

And I know I, I can be a very all or

nothing kind of person, if I decide

782

:

that I like tea, then I'm not just

gonna buy, one or two kinds of tea.

783

:

I've got.

784

:

15.

785

:

And really, I probably

have more than that.

786

:

And that, that's just

that's my personality.

787

:

But it can be that way with, when

we're trying to make changes too.

788

:

And sometimes that's, that gives you a

jumpstart, but really most of the time

789

:

that kind of means you go, okay, I can't

do all of this stuff, and then you stop.

790

:

So just realizing that, l little

incremental progress is still progress.

791

:

And just getting really clear on the

things that maybe one thing or two

792

:

things that you'd like to change.

793

:

And then once you get that kind of,

where you're like, okay, this is

794

:

feeling a little more comfortable

now then revisit it and know that it

795

:

doesn't all have to be done right now.

796

:

Mike: Yeah, for sure.

797

:

I let the metaphor again of the, like

you said just now and at the beginning,

798

:

the GPS or the map, the concept of

the map in terms of it, identifying

799

:

where you are now and sketching that

out and then identifying the goal is

800

:

super important, and then figuring

out the path with how to get there.

801

:

Definitely.

802

:

Yeah, that's great.

803

:

Maybe Jenny, can you share share for where

folks can find out about your book and

804

:

your program online or on social media?

805

:

Jenny: Yes.

806

:

Yeah, so really the easiest way

is to go to jenny lidle.com,

807

:

and that's J-E-N-N-Y-L-Y-T-L E.com.

808

:

And with that there's there's

a, they can access a free copy,

809

:

a free digital copy of my book.

810

:

It is also available on Amazon

in audible and a large print

811

:

hardcover and paperback and Kindle.

812

:

But there is a free download that's

available there on my website.

813

:

And there's also some other free

resources including, the book bonuses

814

:

that because there's extensive book

bonuses that come with that as well.

815

:

And some blog posts and different

ways to, to work with me.

816

:

And and then I also have a, just a

quick podcast that I do usually weekly,

817

:

that's just some usually it's something

that's going on in my life or that

818

:

I've worked with a client on, and so

they're like under 10 minutes each.

819

:

And just quick little actionable

ways to fit in self care.

820

:

Mike: That's awesome.

821

:

That's great.

822

:

I'll put links to all of that

content in the show notes.

823

:

So I'd really encourage

viewers and listeners here

824

:

to check out Jenny's content.

825

:

It's obviously fascinating and

very accessible and I'm sure

826

:

people will find that very helpful.

827

:

I know I'm definitely gonna

continue checking out your work.

828

:

So is there anything that you wanted

to share with us in closing, Jenny?

829

:

Jenny: First of all, just thank you

so much for for this opportunity

830

:

and it's something that I feel so

strongly about and I know that most

831

:

of us that are doing some sort of

work in the in the interpersonal

832

:

caregiver realm, then, we really just

need to remember that we're worth it.

833

:

We it can't be all about everybody else.

834

:

Taking some time for ourselves is

something that that's not only okay.

835

:

It's not selfish, but it is essential.

836

:

It's the only way that we can

continue to show up for the people

837

:

that, that we are caring for.

838

:

And start small, it doesn't

have to be anything big.

839

:

Just start with, start with a few breaths.

840

:

Start with maybe going for a walk, maybe

asking yourself, what is it that I,

841

:

what is it that I need most right now?

842

:

Going from there.

843

:

And definitely if it's something

where you're like, you know what?

844

:

I just, I really don't

know where to start.

845

:

Go on my website, book

a free call with me.

846

:

I'm happy to I'm happy to chat with you.

847

:

It's not, there's nothing like high

pressure and salesy or anything.

848

:

It's just just a way to help you

figure things out a little bit.

849

:

So thank you.

850

:

Mike: That's great.

851

:

Yeah.

852

:

Thank you.

853

:

That's fantastic.

854

:

Okay yeah, appreciate your

expertise and your time.

855

:

It's been a really delightful conversation

and just wish you all the best and

856

:

it'll be great to keep in touch.

857

:

Jenny: Yes.

858

:

Thank you so much.

859

:

I appreciate it.

860

:

Mike: Okay.

861

:

All the best.

862

:

Take care.

863

:

Bye-bye now.

864

:

Jenny: Thanks.

865

:

Bye.

866

:

Mike: Thanks again for joining me

today on the Neurostimulation Podcast.

867

:

I hope that you enjoyed this

discussion as much as I did.

868

:

If you found today's episode

interesting, don't forget to like

869

:

and subscribe to the podcast.

870

:

It's the best way to make sure that you

never miss an episode, and it also is

871

:

the best way to help us to reach more

interested and curious minds like yours.

872

:

If you think that this episode

in particular might resonate with

873

:

a friend, a family member, or a

colleague, please share it with them.

874

:

Knowledge is better when it's shared

and you never know who might find

875

:

this information helpful or inspiring.

876

:

For more information about Jenny's work,

please check out the links in the show

877

:

notes, and don't hesitate to put comments

or questions in the comment section below.

878

:

Your questions, ideas, and

feedback make this podcast better.

879

:

Finally, don't forget to

tune into the next episode.

880

:

It's going to be another exciting

journey into the cutting edge of

881

:

neuroscience, general health and wellness.

882

:

Thanks again for listening.

883

:

Take care.

884

:

Stay curious, and I'll see you next

time on the Neurostimulation Podcast.

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