“From day one, I was taught the right way — because there's a right way and a wrong way." That conviction has defined Brandon Yosha's six-year career, which began with a $20.3 million verdict in his very first trial. Brandon joins host Dan Ambrose in West Hollywood to share the Nick Rowley mentorship that shaped his trial philosophy, the legacy of his father — Indiana trial legend Buddy Yosha — and the opening statement framework he'll be teaching at TLU Beach.

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Episode Snapshot

★ In high school, Brandon was at one point ranked the seventh-best running back in the country, but he suffered an ACL tear his sophomore year and another his junior year before rebounding for a strong senior season.

★ Brandon lettered as a true freshman at the University of Miami, where his freshman-year roster included 40 players who would go on to play in the NFL.

★ Five weeks from his first trial, Brandon cold-emailed Nick Rowley — and within one hour, Nick responded; the next day, Nick sent members of his team to Indianapolis to help Brandon prepare for trial.

★ Brandon's first trial involved an electric shock injury. The jury awarded $20.3 million.

★ Brandon's father, Buddy Yosha, has practiced law since 1963 and tried over a hundred personal injury jury trials in Indiana — more than any lawyer in the state's history — losing just six, four of which were his first four, before going on a 70-case win streak.

★ In his second trial, Brandon tried a case alongside Buddy; when opposing counsel objected during Buddy's rebuttal, the judge said "Sit down, counselor" before she could state her reason. The jury awarded $2.3 million.

★ Inspired by his first verdict, Brandon wrote From Running Back to Giving Back: A Lineage of Civil Advocacy, which became an Amazon bestseller in trial advocacy, reaching the top 20.

★ Brandon and Nick Rowley are co-counsel on a case against Amazon — which Brandon expects to go to trial next May.

★ Brandon is teaching an opening statement workshop at TLU Beach; he is asking workshop participants to send their draft opening statements before arriving in Huntington Beach.

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All right. Well, today we are in West Hollywood, California, which is a different location than we normally are because we got Brandon Yosha here all the way from Indianapolis, Indiana. And what brings you here today besides your appearance on the TLU podcast, Brandon?

Yeah, I mean, this was obviously the most important part of my trip,

But- Flattery will, it works on me. I'm very susceptible to that, so I appreciate it.

No, Nick Rowley's a mentor of mine and a great friend, and he is putting on a trial by human seminar this weekend at the one hotel in West Hollywood. And we're learning, working on our cases, and it's been great.

Yep. And I don't know if you know, but Nick is the reason why I'm probably sitting here right now because back in 2005, the people of the brilliance of the Trial Lawyers College, bless their souls, had Nick and I be roommates. And I remember when, because he was late that year, because I think it was in trial or something, and then people were talking about him before he got there, this crazy guy. And they're like, "Oh, you're going to get along with him though, because he's nuts." And I'm like, "Can't wait to meet this dude." And then so we roomed there for a couple years at the ranch and then we reconnected in 2012 at the AAJ Chicago and the AJ's going back to Chicago this year. And so that's where I really got my foray into this world of civil lawyers because I was a criminal lawyer.

But Nick invites me to come to watch him speak for his first time at Kella in Las Vegas.

Sure.

And it took some convincing me to get me to go there because I was going there the following weekend with a group of friends and he's like, "Why can't you go two weeks in a row?" I'm like, "Because I got a J-O-B. I need M-O-N-E-Y." He's like, "Just take care of your airfra. I'll take care of everything else." I'm like, "What are the dates again?" I'm like, "I'm in for that. " And so I get there and I met Steve King who's here teaching with Nick because they were roommates in law school. And two months later, I'm moving to California. I lived in his house for a while, and then I lived in one of his condos for a while with his house guy named Josue. And I eventually was able to get my own place. I grew up a little bit. I stopped couch surfing.

But for that, I'm not likely here. I'm likely still in Michigan being a criminal defense lawyer. So I know he's changed- Full

Circle, right?

Yeah. I know he's changed your life. He's touched a lot of people's lives directly, indirectly with his teachings and his verdicts. And so that's something a lot of people have in common. You know what I mean? Because I know ... And Nick and you, and tell us how you first meet Nick.

I had read his books in law school. I had read Trial by Human, read Running with the Bulls, and I absolutely loved his philosophy and putting the client's story at the forefront of every case and really connecting with your client. And when I graduated law school, I passed the bar. My dad asked me to present and give an opening statement in an upcoming trial, and I had never given an opening statement before. And Nick, Colt emailed him. Never had spoke to him before. Cold emailed him, told him that I read his books in law school, and I told him my situation. I would be trying my first case in five weeks, and I need your help. And within one hour, I heard back from Nick Rowley, the best trial lawyer in the country in my mind. And I couldn't believe it. I was shocked that he got back to me so quickly, that he got back to me at all.

And he said, "I'm going to help you. " And I think literally the next day, he sent Jacob Norman and Nick coach Amelia on their plane to Indianapolis to meet with me and our clients in our office to prepare for the case. And that was such an invaluable experience. And it was really a transformative experience as well because from day one, I was taught the right way because there's a right way and a wrong way, and a lot of people are doing it the wrong way.

It's definitely the right way and the wrong way. And I always feel bad for people who put in so much effort in their training and their learning, but they're just not learning the right stuff. And they're learning the wrong stuff and they're putting all their heart and soul to it and they're going to the courtroom. You just punched in the face over and over. And it's demoralizing because if you think you're learning the right way, but you're not, and you go and you put all your effort in and you learn the stuff well, you still get fucking blasted. Well, it starts to think it's me. I'm not good. Jurors don't connect me. Jurors don't like me. And that may be true, but it may be because you haven't been trained well and that you all have these, because I do a lot of coaching and I look at my job as we all have these ticks, these weird things that we do.

Quirks. These quirks and what we present, but we can't see them. That's why we have them. If we saw them, we'd probably try to get rid of them. And so my job is to help people see their quirks, identify them, acknowledge them, and then give them the process and method to discard them if they want to. Now most people want to, but some people are like, "Oh, that's just me. " I'm like, "Man, this is you me. I don't really know what I don't want to mess with you. " You know what I mean? But all this thing, I'm being myself, most people's natural selves is a nervous, insecure mess that's shaky. It's not the relaxed, confident self that they somehow dream they are. So somehow dream they are, but it's so important to learn the right way. When you say learn the right way, tell us some of the lessons you learned by working with Nick's team or Nick and Jacob and Nick C. that have stuck with you for your extensive, what is it, six year career now?

Yeah,

Six years.

Yeah. Okay. You've doing a lot six years. That's fucking great. We're talking about it. Go on.

Yeah. I've learned so much from them, but in that particular trip where they came to Indianapolis, when we met with Amy Simmons, she was the husband of Wayne Simmons, or I'm sorry, the wife of Wayne Simmons. She had a loss of consortium claim and we were in my conference room, my dad's law firm's conference room, and Jacob and Amy and I were preparing her for direct examination. I was going to handle her direct. And the first question I asked Amy when we sat down in preparation for her direct examination was, "What did you notice Amy about Wayne immediately after his electric shock injury?" Jacob cut me off. He shut me down before Amy could answer and he said, "Brandon, no, no, no, no, no. We'll get to that, but I want to start with this. Amy, where were you born?

Where did you grow up? Amy, where'd you go to high school?" Amy, who was your first boyfriend? "Amy, what do you do for a living?" He taught me to really get my client's human story and understand it. And by doing that, we got so many golden nuggets or gems that we fleshed out in the trial. She talked about how she was in an abusive relationship before she met Wayne, and it was a nasty, abusive relationship. And when she met Wayne, she met her source of comfort, and she referred to Wayne as her oak tree, and her oak tree used to be strong and vibrant, and it was the strongest tree in the forest. But after this electric shock injury, it was damaged severely, and that was in my opening, that was in my closing. I would've never got that if I said, "What'd you notice was different about Wayne the day after the electric shock?" So it's taking the time to really understand your client's human story.

And then another great learning moment was that night we went to the Simmons house in Terre Haute, Indiana, went to their farm, broke bread with them, had dinner with them. And I'm telling you, by the time I tried that case, I felt so connected to Wayne and Amy, and I think the jury could just feel my connection and my love for those two individuals just oozing out of my body. And it was so poignant and it was just so real, my connection to the Simmons. And I mean, my heart was in it at every stage of that trial, and that's something that you're not getting taught. You're not getting taught that in law school. You're not getting taught that at most of the seminars that you hear about, but that's the most important part of a jury trial, is connecting to your client.

TLU Beach has happened right here at the Paseo Hotel, June 3rd through 6th, Huntington Beach, California. But it all starts out on June 2nd because we're taking over the Laraya restaurant and the entire pool area. We're having a dinner party hosted by our friends at Finch. At TLU, we not only have the greatest education because we got five lecture tracks with the top trial lawyers of the country and eight workshop tracks for smaller group, interactive, on your feet training. But on top of all that, we got networking, we got friend making, because we got golf, we got pickleball, we got go- kart racing, we got surf camp, we got all that stuff going on. And on top of that, we're going to feed you the entire time. We provide a full breakfast for everybody, full lunch, dinner parties, food trucks, because we're having themed parties every night.

Thursday night, 80s track suit party hosted by Supio. Friday night, the Wild West Satch Oliver party hosted by our friends at Eve. And Satche is bringing 500 pounds of Angus beef. We're going to have a mechanical bull. And then Saturday night, the opera ski adult swim pool party happened right here. So come for the education, stay for the food and make lots of new friends and change your life at TLU Beach. We'll see you here. What was that? Well, I think connecting with the jury's pretty important too, but you have to connect with your client.

Before you connected the jury.

You got to connect with your client. I agree. And so what was that case about?

It was an electric shock injury. Wayne was an independent contractor who was hired to ... He was hired at an excavation site to dig at the power plant in Indianapolis and basically rewire the electrical wiring at this plant. In order to do that, he had to take a jackhammer and they spray painted where he was supposed to dig and he starts digging for about an hour with the jackhammer and then he notices some gravel and some rock base. That's usually an indication that there's a live electrical conduit directly underneath. He looks back behind him and asks his boss, "Boss, I'm encountering some rock. What do you want me to do? " Boss says, "Keep digging." So Wayne takes his jackhammer, he keeps digging, and about 10 seconds later he hits the live line. Huge arc, blast, and explosion, and he shocked at 4,000 volts of electricity.

Miraculously, he lived. That's an awful lot of voltage to be shocked at, but he is living with severe permanent injuries. He's got paresthesia throughout the entire right side of his body, nerve damage. He has allodynia. He has- What's

Allodynia?

Allodenia is just sensations that are abnormal that should not be abnormal. Whenever you have a blanket on, it's an uncomfortable experience when you have allodynia. He has tinnitus ringing in his ears. He's permanently impotent, so he can't have sex with his wife for the rest of his life. He's erectile dysfunction, impotence, and he never sleeps more than an hour or two at a time for the rest of his life. And if the company who had hired him to dig at this site or the power plant itself had looked at the surveys, they would've seen that the area they spray painted in bright orange for him to dig had a live electrical line directly beneath it. The managers, the superintendents, they didn't check the surveys and it changed his life forever. He used to go horseback riding with Amy. They used to love the horseback ride.

I mean, he's a farm boy in Indiana. Can't do that. He used to love taking his son out to go hunting. Can't do that.

Okay. Which parts of the trial did you do?

Because this

Was your first

Trial. Yeah. So I did the opening on damages and I did the direct examination of Amy and I also did the closing argument on damages. And I did a few lay witnesses as well.

It's a good little floor dipping your toe in the water.

Yeah. Tell

Us about Pepper for that first opening. Did you get a lot of reps in?

I did. And the way I got reps was actually I spent some time with Nick and I showed him my PowerPoint and my slides. And my feedback from Nick was very direct. He's always brutally honest.

Unlike myself who has a filter.

Yeah, right.

Very kind and sweet to everybody. Anybody that's been there. One of my bootcamps will tell you about my warm, kind demeanor and very supportive.

Yep. Yeah. That's your MO. That's

My ammo.

Yep. But no, with Nick, I mean, his main feedback to me was, in my opening, I had a great understanding of the medical doctors and the experts and what they were going to say and what the defense doctors were going to say. And I could articulate it very well, but I couldn't articulate the human losses very well. And there were also no slides that showed our clients, that showed Wayne and Amy, that showed them on their wedding day, that showed them outdoors, showed them fishing and hunting. And Nick said, "Where are these photos? Where's your client?" I mean, great. You have good medical testimony, but I need to see your clients. So luckily I had enough time to tweak it and I tweaked it an awful lot and it was much more centered around the human story, the human losses, the non-economic damages. And I think it turned out pretty well for us.

Yeah.

Well, what was the final verdict?

$20.3 million.

And I know there was some shared responsibility here. How much they put on your client?

Yep. 38% in total, 8% on my client.

Right. So 30% on one company, 62% on the other company. Yes. IP&L.

Yeah.

8% on your client. Yes. And you collected that, right? Yep.

Yep. So

That's a great thing to get a verdict, but it's a little bit of a letdown when people don't collect it.

Sure.

It's kind of the important part of getting it. Right. That's the meaningful part. Ones to show people, but one's going to change people's lives, including your own. Sure. I mean, with all truthfulness and-

TLU On Demand is the library for trial. You catch everything you missed over the last six years, and we've collected all the pleadings, transcripts, and PowerPoints for all these cases and presentations from Las Vegas, New York, and from right here at the Puicea. And it's an app for your phone, and there's a Dan GPT feature on the desktop so you can search the entire database for exactly what you're looking for when you need it. If you're not a subscriber, you can call me on my cell phone or text me 248-808-3130, and I will send you a 30-day comp code so you can try it at no risk. And then finally, you will see what you've been missing out on for all these years. You start out and you're 26 years old. Is that right? When you get that first verdict, that's amazing. But your path, even now your dad, buddy.

Yes.

So he's been a little bit of an inspiration to you, and I know you guys are pretty tight, so give us the context of that.

Yeah. I mean, I don't want to brag on my dad, but I'll brag on my dad. He's

Your dad. He can't brag on. It's like your kid. You can't brag on your kid and your dad. Who are you going to brag on? Yeah,

I'll

Brag on- You can brag on me now that you know me, but that's not since I'm joking. Anyways, so brag on you.

I think you know a little bit of the background of my dad. I know. Th's why I'm going

To let you brag on your dad.

Yeah. So my dad has been practicing law since 1963 and had tried over a hundred jury trials more than any Indiana lawyer in the history of the state for personal injury cases. Still? Still. All right. Yep. And I think he lost six in total. Four of them were his first four. But once he got that first verdict, he went on a 70 case went streak and he is, In my mind, he's the best trial lawyer of all time. Him and Jerry Spence used to give lectures together at the Ann Arbor Institute in the '80s. And Irving Younger was also one of the lectures.

10 commands

To class. 10 commandments across, right? Yeah. And he worked on very important cases, law changing cases, and he would never fear taking a case to trial, taking it all away. And he had so much empathy for everyone and cared so much about his clients and no one prepared for a trial like Buddy Yosha, no one. I mean, he would prepare years in advance for his opening statement. He would anticipate every response to his questions on cross, every response to his questions on direct with his clients, and just was a phenomenal trial lawyer and my best friend.

He was also Inner Circle member?

Yep. Inner Circle of Advocates. Yep. Right. It's pretty

Prestigious organization.

Joined that '80s, actually.

Before my friend Brian Panish was there.

Yeah.

Before BP. So that's great to have a great ... Because my dad was also a lawyer, but he was more of a country lawyer.

Yeah. I

Don't know if he was ... I think he may say he was a great trialer. Great person, great networker, great community builder, but trial wasn't really his game. So I had to kind of learn it my own way. So your dad, but that wasn't your initial track becoming a trial lawyer. What was your initial focus when you were in college

Getting ready? Yeah. So in high school, I was at one point ranked the seven best running back in the country. So I had interest from most schools, most of the major programs in the country. Received a lot of recognition for my talents and combines. And unfortunately, I had an ACL tear my sophomore year, an ACL tear my junior year of high school. I rehabbed him and had a successful senior year.

So you had ACLs in both legs?

Both legs. Both these.

Okay.

Before I even got to college. I had a healthy senior year and went on to the University of Miami down in Florida, program that's won five national championships.

The hurricanes?

The hurricanes, the U. And I was the only white guy on my team, and I fit right in.

All right.

And yeah, it was great. At the University of Miami, I lettered as a true freshman. And we had my freshman year, we had on our roster, 40 guys that played in the NFL.

Really?

40. That's

Amazing.

And it varied on how long they played, but 40 total out of the 90 players on the roster, 40 played in the NFL. And I played as a true freshman. I played in seven games. I played mostly on special teams though, like kickoff, kickoff return, pun return. And it was such a good ... Playing with those guys, competing with those guys, some of the best athletes in the world. And I'd wake up at 5:30 in the morning, go to therapy for my knees, go to workouts, and then we would have practice for three hours and then Miami Heat. And then we'd watch film for an hour, have lunch, and then we'd go to class.

Class was kind of a secondary thing. I think there's some rumor about this.

Yeah. I won't say that on film, but yeah.

I'll just edit that right out of this, don't

Worry about it. Okay. I'm sure you will. Sure we will. But no, it was a great experience to be able to play in those seven games. I played against Notre Dame, so I got to come home and play my hometown school of Notre Dame, being an Indiana guy. And we played at Soldier Field. My whole family was there, and it was Catholics versus Convicts. I was on the convict side.

What a surprise.

Yeah. And my assignment that week was to block Mante Teo, who ended up being a runner up for the Heisman. He pancaked me, smoked me, first played the game. But I kept going, kept fighting, and got him blocked a few times. But those were great moments. And those moments of playing in front of 80, 90,000 people on national television, those moments I think helped me feel more comfortable in my own skin in a courtroom or more comfortable even in a setting like this on a podcast. I don't have as much fear as I think others might because of that experience, because I just tell myself, okay, let's take yourself back to the tunnel, getting ready to run out against Notre Dame in front of 90,000. And this is like, okay, six jurors here. In Indiana, it's six jurors. I can do this, right?

Plus

It's

Exciting. Yeah,

It is. It's game

Time, baby.

Yeah. And that's how I feel about trials too. I think it's the closest thing you can get. Being in a trial, it's the closest feeling you can have to playing football at a high level.

Oh yeah. So I was talking to somebody, just these guys panish or rally, they just love the sport. They love the competition because-

Because there's a winner and a loser, right?

Right. And you want

To win.

And they're

So fun. So badly.

They're so far beyond needing anymore money. So they're not doing it for the money. And it's hard work. It's no joke to be trying these trials. No. And even at their level,

It's still a lot of preparation, a lot of isolated time, a lot of time on your own, even at the highest, even if they get to where they got. And I have seen in the past, and I think that playing the college game that you played at a high level, I think that has a big effect on person's ability to become a trial lawyer because discipline, you got to have discipline. When you get those first loss, you get a couple in a row, that's when it takes the resilience. When you put everything out there, you give it everything you got and you still get smashed.

And that's the mental toughness, but the discipline to train and to prepare preparation to win is a part that is a challenge for most people because it's not fun. No. I mean, it can be fun if you depending your mindset, but you're separate from everything else. But I think I've seen it play out a lot and just being in front of people too, the comfort. I used to stutter when I was a new lawyer. I was terrified. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is ever going to leave me because you can't be a lawyer if you stutter. But eventually it did. So you were at the University of Miami. Is that where you

Finished your career? No, no. I went to two more schools. After my freshman year, there was a coaching staff changed and the coaches that had recruited me to come to Miami had left. And-

Who was that?

Jed Fish was the offensive coordinator who ended up going to the Jaguars. I couldn't transfer to the Jaguars.

Not yet.

Yeah, not yet. So I didn't really jive with the new coaches and wasn't going to play much as a running back and I wanted to play as a running back. That was my position instead of special teams. So I wanted to transfer and in order to not sit out for a year, this was before the transfer portal where you could just transfer

Where- NIL. Yeah.

It was free. Before they

Filled the Indianapolis Indiana team and the national champion one year from last to first. Before we forward the buddy can buy the team, go ahead.

Right. Yeah. So I was in that era where it was very strict and you had to go to a 1A school if you didn't want to sit out for an entire year. I didn't want to sit out for a whole year. I was already beat up with my niece, so I wanted to play immediately. I chose Lehigh. It's in Bethlen, Pennsylvania. They play Ivy League schools, Patriot League schools, and I was the starting running back there. Hey. Yeah. I started the first-

The big fish is a very small pond.

Yeah, exactly.

There

You go. I started the first four games of the season, had 500 yards rushing and I think five touchdowns. And the fifth game of the year, we were playing Yale at the Yale Bowl, historic yield bowl. And first play the game, I popped won for a 60 yard touchdown and was feeling great, feeling like my old self, playing running back. And the second drive of the game, a safety came down in the middle and I met him after about a five yard game and he twists my knee, tackles me, and I tear my lateral medial meniscus on my right side. And from that point on, I knew I would never be the player that I could have been, and it was just such a struggle as it was to keep my body healthy. And at the end of that season, I told the coach at Lei, thank you for the opportunity, but I'm done.

And I hung up the Cleats and moved back home and went to Indiana University down in Bloomington for the last year and a half of undergrad. And that's when I got serious about academics because before that I was not an academician.

You were an athlete?

I was an athlete.

And a convict at one point. Or by association. Yeah, by associate. By associates. So you get serious and decide you're going to become a lawyer. Is that when you make the decision? No longer

In the NFL? Immediately. Yeah. Yeah.

NFL is no longer

Part of the

Plan being a trial lawyer and file ... And so when you become a lawyer, so you go to IU for law school

Also? Yep. Yep.

Now, did you do any activities during law school to help you become a trial lawyer

That you take out? Absolutely. So the advantage for me was from day one of law school, even before law school, when I was studying for the LSAT, I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a trial lawyer. I wanted to follow in my dad's footsteps in the state of Indiana and throughout the country as a trial lawyer. As law school started, I had the luxury of knowing what I was going to do and what I wanted to do. And I studied really hard at torts. I studied really hard in trial advocacy and I got A's in both of those classes. Those were my only A's. I did Moot Court and I was successful in Moo Court and I was ordered the barristers and represented our law school against other schools throughout the Midwest and did well on my feet in Moot Court.

And I was also interning at our firm and I was a clerk and learned how to prepare for a trial. I didn't try a case when I was in law school. You can do that, but I didn't do that. I just watched. I tried to absorb as much as I could from the other lawyers in the office, help them in any way possible. And yeah, it's great. Doing what I do.

It is. And when you first become a lawyer though, you joined your dad's firm right out of

The gate go? Yeah, I was already there.

You were already there, so it wasn't much to join. You just got a bar card. Now you got hopefully a desk instead of a-

Right,

Exactly. ... instead of a cubicle-estation. But even As a young lawyer though, you had to get ... Because your dad was how old when you became a lawyer?

He was 81. Right.

That's amazing because he was what, 65 or 66 when he had you?

He was up there. I'm not good at math,

But

That's why I'm a lawyer.

You're like 40%. I'm good with 40% or a third,

Whatever the case

May be in Indiana.

Right. Yeah, exactly.

Those are the numbers I can crunch. I'm

32 now. Right. So that

Puts in perspective. That's why I was able ... I'm not that good at math, but I was able to subtract the 88 from the 32. Better

Than me.

See. But you had to come out and what was the state of the firm when you joined it?

Yeah, it was middle tier and it was archaic.

How were the business processes, the operation?

Yeah, it was very archaic. We were still doing files. We didn't have case management software. We had needles, but we just used that for case notes and then we had Word. Do you

Have email?

We did have email. I was getting a little worried. Everybody had an email. Had emails. But no case management software, no intake process, no online marketing whatsoever. Our website had a 404 error half the time it was up. I mean, it was due for a revamp, a massive revamp. And that's something that I took over pretty quickly after joining as a lawyer. And it was a process and it was a lot of work. Yeah. But it's necessary.

Yeah. It's hard. Running a firm is so much different than being a lawyer. Absolutely. It's such a ... I used to do it. I hated it. I was terrible at it. And hence I didn't do a very good job with it. I didn't make much money. And if you don't run a good business, you're miserable

Because

You just don't have money and you don't have good operations. You constantly stressed because you're not sure what's going on. So you'd become like a businessman and a lawyer at the same time. May 8th and 9th right here at the TLU Beach House, you should join us because we're going to do a two-day witness preparation and direct examination workshop. It's going to be a small group, limited to eight people, eight students. We're going to teach you how to prep your clients and your lay witnesses. So when they're up there in deposition, they're not just remembering the story, but they're reliving it. So the jury just doesn't hear it, but they experience it. We'll see you here. Did you ever get a chance to try a case with your dad?

Yeah, I did. It was my second jury trial and we represented a young woman, young mother who was in a car crash with her son. She was hit by a high school girl. And it was a tough case because we were dealing with a defendant who had a lot of sympathy from the jury. And my client had a tibial plateau fracture. The son wasn't really injured. He was in the backseat. And it was a red light case, clear liability. And I gave the closing and my dad gave the rebuttal. That was a very cool moment to be able to try a case with the legend. And I'll never forget this. The opposing counsel objected when my dad said something in his rebuttal. And before she could say why she was objecting, the judge said, "Sit down, counselor." Because it was Buddy Yosha getting in the courtroom again and giving a rebuttal.

I mean, that was the aura of Buddy in the courtroom. And he just has so much gravitas and respect in the legal community that he could get away with anything. So it was really cool to see that. And we got a $2.3 million verdict and the client was very happy.

I bet.

Yeah.

I bet.

And they had only offered us like 200,000. So it was a great outcome. And to be able to try a case with my dad was priceless. I'll never forget that.

And I know you've had five trials, but we did a case analysis about your last trial.

Yeah.

They remember that.

Yep.

And so because that last trial you did was again ...

Frito-Lay. I was

Trying to remember. I was going to come to me in a second.

Yep. Frito-Lay.

Frito-Lay. And you got a $10 million verdict in that case.

Yep.

So tell us what that case was about.

Yeah. Karen was driving with her daughter in the car. Karen was 48 at the time and daughter was in her late 20s and they were leaving their house to go shopping for the day. It was on a Saturday and Karen was a graduate student pursuing her degree, a PhD in psychology. And she had the day off and she wanted to go shopping with her daughter, so they head to Best Buy. And on the way to Best Buy, they get hit by a Frito-Lay driver at an intersection on the east side of Indianapolis. And the Frito-Lay driver made an illegal left turn and Karen had the right of way. She couldn't avoid it, collided with a Frito-Lay truck, and she sustained a talus fracture, a common unit talus fracture. And the daughter actually was fortunate. She didn't have more serious injuries, but that's the injury.

For everybody who's not a doctor and all that, what's a talus?

Yeah, the talus is probably the most important bone in our body. It's here, if the camera can see me. Can the

Record reflect you're pointing to

Your foot? The top of my foot. The top of your foot. Not the ankle. I learned this. Top of my foot- Top of

Your foot.

Yeah. So it's the bone on the top of the foot and it absorbs more weight than any bone in the human body. So it's a very important bone. And she shattered her tollus, had a combinated fracture involving the head, neck, and body of the towels. So all three aspects of her talus were shattered. And she was living with chronic pain and the osteoarthritis set in very quickly, rapidly. And she was at end stage osteoarthritis when the trial began and-

So osteoarthritis,

How's

That different than arthritis?

It's just more bone on bone interaction. Yeah. And it's end stage. It's chronic at that point. Yeah.

So those are her injuries. And so the opening statement in this case. Yeah. So how do you go about preparing for that opening?

Well, that's a lot of preparation. I started preparing for that eight months before the trial. I worked with Jessica Borelo and we worked on case theming. I brought Jessica in just like two months before the trial, but we did focus groups on the topics that we thought were problematic. And I like to start with having that one sentence of what the case is about in every opening statement. And later- What's the

One sentence in this case?

In this case, it was a 48-year-old mother and graduate student is driving with her daughter to shop for the day when she is violently struck by a negligent Frito-Lay driver, causing lifelong injuries and impairments. Usually after that, I'll introduce the client. And Jessica told me some cases that works, and I agreed with her wholeheartedly on this. Some cases that does work to introduce the client pretty early on in opening, but in this case, it didn't. And we wanted to get to the facts of the case, the medical, before we got into her background, who the client was, her life experiences. And I think that was right in this case because you don't want to look like you're trying to garner sympathy for your client too early on before

They

Heard anything about the case. And yeah, so from there, we went into what happened, obviously, and the liability component, and it was an admitted liability case, which was great. So we're just here to talk about damages. And then we get into the medical and then we introduce Karen, talk about her entire life as much as we can. And then after that, you get into the excuses or the defenses or the alibis, as Jordan Logan says in Sean Claggett, and you talk about all the ridiculous defenses that they've brought, and you want to make sure, this is probably the most important part of every opening statement, is putting your bad facts or facts that could be perceived as bad into the proper context. Keith Minich talks about this all the time, getting out ahead of those bad facts because you're screwed. If you don't deal with them in your opening statement and you sit down, then they talk about it immediately.

You lost credibility with the jury, complete credibility shoot. So we talked about their defenses. It's a minor injury, only $30,000 in medical bills. We tried to waive the medical bills. We couldn't.

$30,000 in water bills.

Who doesn't waive that? Yeah. And we tried with the judge. We pleaded with him and we said, Your Honor, it's not relevant for these medical bills to come in if we're not pursuing a claim for the medical bills. And still came in. It's part of the adversity.

You had such a kind and supportive plaintiff-friendly judge, and so I can see why that would happen.

No comment. No

Comment.

Yeah. But yeah, so we had to put that in. We had to deal with it. That's not what this case is about. Case is about the human losses, what's been taken from her, her inability to pursue her graduate school degree, to be able to start this aged out foster youth organization that she's dedicated her entire life to. Then we tell the jury what we anticipate the law and the evidence will justify at the end of the case. I believe we gave them 20 million in one of the final slides and that in a three minute nutshell is the opening statement.

And opening statement is something you're going to be teaching on at TAU Beach because ... So you were there a couple years ago. We're still finding our way as far as conference, putting them on. But what were your favorite parts of TLU Beach? I think you were probably there 2023.

Yep. Yep. Hunting the beach. Yeah.

Because

2020- I did Vegas too. Yeah.

What'd you like better? The beach or Vegas?

I like the beach. Dude,

The beach is the best.

Yeah, I like the beach.

The way we have it, because now we have the whole hotel. It's right on the ocean and it's great because everybody in the hotel is with us, so it feels like college. You know what I'm saying? In a weird sort of way, like an adult sort of way.

Sharing

The

Dorms.

Yeah, because you're going down the line. You know the approach, "Hey, what's up? Where are you from?" You know that that person's with you in some way and the food's fantastic, the pasad because we do a full breakfast, full lunch. Actually, we're doing a dinner party this year on Tuesday night beforehand for everybody, so that way everybody can get connected ahead of time and become friends, which is so important because my goal is for people to make more money. And how do we make more money? We get better on our cases and we have a bigger community and you got to become friends and you got to get mentors, right? You need the great trial lawyers to become mentors to us. Look at that. Oh

Gosh. What's going on here? Oh.

We're in the middle of our podcast, Nick.

Yeah. But you'd be happy to know. It's going good. It was going good. Let me clip this on you in case you talk more to me a little bit here. But since he was mentioning how you helped him with his first case and sent Jake up there, and I was mentioning how you and I were friends at the Trial Lawyers College and invited me to come out and watch you speak in 2012 and let me stay at your place. And I wouldn't be probably sitting in this chair today and interviewing Brandon Yosha, but for those connections though, so I know you're running your program here. Glad

Glad you're here.

Great.

Glad you're here. Yeah. So proud of you. Thank you. So proud of you. I met Brandon at the beginning of his career, first case he tries, he gets a record verdict, an amazing verdict. It was just awesome, but you did it on your own.

You helped me an awful lot.

And then you've been out there swinging trying cases. Yep.

Yep.

I've seen you evolve, not just as a trial lawyer, but as a person. Really proud of you, brother.

Thank you so much, man. I owe so much of my success to this guy. I really do. And

You're about to-

Because he has taught me how to be a better human being. And by doing that, I'm a better trial lawyer. When you're living right and you're taking care of yourself and you're ... Don't say this to Dan, but not drinking as much.

I don't drink,

Bro. He stopped. He stopped.

He's good. Okay. He's got a drink.

All right.

Okay. Yeah, good.

Why do you think I drink? I'm great. People keeps me of drinking too much. Why do you drink? I might have a weird personality, but it's not because of alcohol.

Your personality's getting a lot better. He's not working. Yeah. I know.

But no, seriously. I mean-

King's been helping

Me. It's Good

Taking care of yourself is so important and spending that time with family and traveling. And he's taught me all of those things and how important it is to being a great trial lawyer. And I owe so much of my success to this guy. I really do. He's like a brother to me. And yeah, thank you so much for everything you've done for me.

So glad you guys are here.

You guys are trying the case pretty soon

Together. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We got a case against Amazon.

Against Amazon?

Yep. And it's going to go to trial in my mind next May. That's going to be a big one and they're going to be held accountable. And it's going to be fun trying a case with my mentor. Thank you, brother.

Good stuff guys.

Let me have my mic go back. Thanks,

Boss. I'll see you. Bye. August 24th through 28th, Satch Oliver has come all the way from Arkansas to right here to Hermosa Beach to TLU Beach House. And we're going to be teaching a five-day depositions our trial bootcamp. You're going to be working on your cases. Satchel's going to be working with you on your cases. So not only are you going to transform your case, but at the end of the day, it becomes a case expense because your case is going to get that much better. This program's limited to 10 participants. So if you want to come, get registered today. We'll see you right here. So Brandon, in addition to doing the lecture on opening statements, you're also teaching a workshop on opening statements. And I know, because I check on these things, a few people have already registered for your workshop, which is fantastic, but those folks that do decide to do your workshop, what benefits can they expect to get?

Well, first of all, I'd like for them to reach out to me as soon as possible. And I want them to be ready to work when we actually get into the workshop and hit the ground running. I'd like for them to give me their draft of an opening statement before we actually get to Huntington Beach. And I think that's going to go a long way, but I want to spend time with everyone and actually critique their sequence of their opening statement and make sure that they're talking about their bad facts. That's so important. And I truly believe that after opening statement, a jury has a good idea of where they're leaning.

Oh, yeah.

It's so important in every trial having a good opening statement. I mean, it's not like the case is won or lost in opening, but it's really important. And if you're not getting your bad facts and putting them in the proper context, or at least dealing with them, if they're bad facts and you can't put them in a proper context, you got to talk about them. You can't just hide from them because they're going to come out. So you need to go through and list all of those bad facts and be ready to talk about them. If we can put them in a proper context, we're going to. And also, I want to know about your clients and I want to be able to tell the story as best we can. And we'll have some of my opening statements that I've done in the past, and I've worked with Jordan Logan, I've worked with Nick Rowley, I've worked with Sean Claggett on openings and past cases.

So I have pretty good templates to use and we're going to look at those. We're going to look at what they have and make sure there's not a lot of text on the slides. Make sure that it's very simple and easily digestible for the jury. And I'm excited about it. I'm fired up. Yeah, we already have four people signed up, so I hope-

Pretty good. That's impressive because I keep track of all these things because there's eight different workshops people can choose from Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

And I just love the workshops because I think people get so much more from being in a small group, even if it's like, let's say you're not on your feet presenting your opening, but you're just discussing the structure. And then especially when everybody kind of knows each other before, because every workshop, as you know, every instructor is required to have two Zoom meetups at least with their class ahead of time. And so that way, kind of go over what they're going to be teaching to kind of preload and put a structure in the people's brains is what they're going to be getting. So they get a lot more out of it. And usually when people know that the instructor's invested, they're a lot more invested. Sure. And they get to meet each other because when you go to these conferences, it's just a lot more fun when you know a lot of people and a lot of people know you and you have friends.

I made a lifelong friend in Jay Vaughn through a workshop at TLU Huntington Beach three years ago. Him and I are great fans. We talk all the time.

Right. And I love to hear about these things and people start collaborating, working on

Cases together. Trucking cases, I reach out to Jay every time.

Right. And so that's because this is a tough job and it's like we need to have friends to collaborate with, mentors to ask questions to and community. And I really work hard on that at TLU to make that come with the workshops, but also the five lecture tracks. So every day, everybody has like 13 choices on what they want to do. So everybody gets to be right where they want to be, where they need to learn, which is something I'm kind of excited for people to have the experience and that they get to get to do the super high level learning.

Besides being practicing law, you also somehow managed to decide to write a book. So what's this book? I mean, when everybody writes a book, I don't care what it's about. It takes so much discipline to sit on your ass for weeks at a time or months at a time or years at a time, however long this book might be and whatever, to put it down on paper and then to read it over many times and edit it and then put it out there in the universe and hope somebody buys it and you get a little bit of love. So what was your book about?

So after we got the $20 million verdict against Indianapolis Power and Light, I was inspired to write a book. I thought that was a story that needed to be told a kid five weeks out of law school passing the bar, being able to do that and what shaped me leading up to that point. So I decided to write a book about six months after that trial and at least start working on it. And the title of the book is From Running Back to Giving Back: A Lineage of Civil Advocacy. And it's on Amazon. You can buy it on Amazon today. At one point was an Amazon bestseller for trial advocacy. I think it was in the top 20.

And the book is essentially about my story to start and my family's story and my upbringing, my family's upbringing. My dad is the son of two immigrants from Monaster, which is in North Macedonia, and we're a Sephardic Jewish. So they fled from Monaster a few years before World War II, and they fled at the right time, obviously because some of their extended family, my extended family, was still living in Montaster in the village, and everyone in Monaster, 100% of the population was taken from Montaster to Triblanca, which was a massive killing station. It wasn't a labor intensive concentration camp. It was a mass extermination camp.

Everyone that lived in monaster that was taken to Triblanca died, not one survivor. And I lost so many relatives. I mean, nieces, nephews, great, great uncles. And my dad was raised in Indianapolis and his father, my grandfather, owned a grocery store on the south side of Indianapolis and very humble living, worked his entire life to be able to provide an education for my dad. My dad, like me, wasn't the most academic, wasn't a scholar. He finished number, he says, 395 out of 400 in high school, and somehow managed to convince the University of Alabama to let him in. And he goes to the University of Alabama for a year, can't afford the tuition, so he has to come back home to Indianapolis and goes to IU and he works nights at times. And then he manages to go to law school at IU, same thing.

He had to work nights to be able to go during the day. And he had just a tremendous work ethic once he got into law, once he got into law school and figured out what he wanted to do. And I think with my family background, it's important to know and understand where we come from because my dad's empathy to a great degree has to do with what our family endured with losing so many relatives. And we were fortunate. I mean, my grandpa came over with my grandma and they didn't speak a lick of English, but they made a living for themselves and somehow managed to come to America and so many of our relatives weren't able to do that. And my grandpa was actively sending money over to Monaster trying to get them all to safety in America. And he got some of our relatives, not all of them.

And that is important to understand where my dad's empathy comes from and where my empathy comes from as well. And early in my dad's career, he was given an opportunity by a successful lawyer and real estate developer, Sid Eskenazi. In 1963, basically handed my dad over the legal division of the firm and he was the trial lawyer and he just tried any case, any case, anytime against anybody. That was his motto. And-

Sounds like Rowley's motto,

anytime,

Anywhere.

I think Buddy coined it, but Rowley might've-

Might have adopted it.

Yeah. You can do that little imitation

Greatest form of flattery.

Yeah. But no, I mean, watching my dad and how he treated people throughout my life, he always treated everyone equally. And he instilled that in me too, is like I went to public schools growing up. I didn't go to the fancy, prestigious private schools. He wanted to make sure ... None of my friends growing up were white. All my friends didn't look like me, and I played with kids in the inner city and football that their only way out was athletics, and that made me tougher. And I'd like to think that a lot of my success is centered around that, and seeing the culture that I developed, because we're not just dealing with white people in the jury pool, we're dealing with all kinds of people. You got to be able to relate with all kinds of people. And my dad was so good with everyone.

He just had such an ability with his charisma and his care were something that I wanted to emulate as a lawyer, and I still am trying to do that.

It's always a process, isn't it? Yeah. The process of growing and becoming better human, better lawyer, better person. So

That was just the first chapter of the book was the upbringing. And then we talked about some of my cases, and I dived into some of my cases. We dived into the Indianapolis Power and Light case, how Nick helped me, how I prepared for that case, the power of the human story. And we went through a few more cases. The Amazon case is actually in there because it's an older case. So you can read about the Amazon case- The one that's

Coming up.

Yeah. The one that's coming up. The details of that case is- How long you had that case

Work?

Five years. Yeah. Pretty

Much your whole career.

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

You had to go all the way to the Supreme Court and back with that case?

Yep. Yep. Had to get a reversal from the trial court on a motion to dismiss that was granted. Shouldn't have been granted.

Obviously,

It was just

Reimbursed by the Supreme

Court, but they just didn't

Think you had the tenacity to go up to the

Supreme

Court

And come back down. You have to. Yeah. You have to. So yeah, we got a trial date set next May and really looking forward to finally trying a case with the man. The

Man. The man. Man, the myth in Indiana. Before we do TLU Beach this year, the 28th of May through June 2nd, we're doing a bootcamp that you'll be gracing us with your presence at because they continue to learn just so that you can fully know what you're getting yourself into when you get there because the bootcamp's really about ... There's really like four, because I've been at this a while now because ever since I came to California, I got a late start because I didn't get out here to try to learn the civil business till I was 45. So I was like, I got to learn fast. I got to get mentors. I got to know people that know what the fuck they're doing. I got to somehow get them to teach me that that worked out great. You know what I mean? During the COVID, I got the panishes, the freeds, the rallies to mentor me and the country.

But there's also, that's all the strategy. That's where you talk about the case framing, where to put the evidence, how to deal with the bad facts. It's all strategy and you got to have high level trial strategy. I mean, that's key.

But you also got to get on your feet and get the reps.

But you got to have the skills. And that's what we're going to work with is the skills. And I think there's four different quadrants of skills that are related, but different. And I think it starts out with witness preparation and direct examination

Because

You have to be able to get the skills of getting your client's story because people that have been traumatized, they repress the pain, they repress the suffering, and they want to pretend everything's okay. And they may use the words of how bad it was, but you could tell they're not feeling it because they've repressed it. They're not connecting with

It. It's like what we were talking about earlier with Amy Simmons in my conference room with Jacob and getting that out, that human story and extracting

It. Not just getting it out there, but teaching ... I think great witnesses, great storytellers, they transport themselves back in time and space and they relive the event and we can't transport somebody else until we can transport ourselves and we can't transport the jury so they just don't hear it. They just don't understand the facts, but they actually experience the story. So it hits them on a visceral level.

So they can't be taught that have an experience. But for be able to get to that point, we have to be able to get our clients to go be able to go back there. I kind of can analogize it to that show Star Trek where Scotty pushes a button and then a person disappears from one place and reappears another place in time and transports them. That's what I think is important that we teach our clients how to do that. Sure. We have to be able to transport with them. So that's where the great empathy comes from because they have to know that we can go into those dark spaces together, we can talk about what happened, but we can come back out too, because I think a lot of people are afraid to fall into that darkness and get trapped back into that depressed state because if you ever suffer depression, you know how illogical it is.

You know how dark it is and you know you never want to go there again. But then you have to be able to have your client be able to tell that story first in deposition and then in trial. Because if you do a great job in deposition, you're not going to trial because the defense isn't stupid. They're just trying to minimize their losses

And look good. But if you're claw Client is great in deposition. It's gone a long way to resolve this. And it also gives them the confidence to go to trial. But that's where the ability to help them tell their story. So that's one aspect. And then there's the cross-examination aspect of it because there are core skills of cross-examination that you have to master, which people have heard me say this many times, but I'll repeat it again because repetition's key to all learning,

Which is leading questions only. For example, doctor, you're a board certified medical expert as opposed to, "Doctor, are you a board certified medical expert?" And we all know this, but I read transcripts, I read depositions as open-ended questions, and then one new fact per question or looping where you establish a fact, repeat that fact in the next statement. So to become board certified, this requires advanced education and then to cross-examine in the present tense. Very few people cross-examine in the present tense. But if you can teach, train yourself to do it, all you got to do is imagine the story because it causes you to visualize the story, causes the witness to visualize the story, but more important, allows the jury or the audience to picture or visualize the story. So for example, this education, it takes place, not took place, but it takes place both during medical school and after you get out.

And so- Leading. Right, but also in the present tense, not after you get out, not got out. So they can visualize it. And then dropping the taglines like, right, correct, isn't it true, true? Or if you have to use the tagline to simply pause for a moment. So if you're really the doctor now, so don't answer until I tagline you. Okay? But while you are in medical school, you do take classes.

True.

I said don't answer. You see how compelling it was?

Bad listen. Bad listener.

See? But one of

These classes- Yeah, I wanted to fill the silence.

I know, but see, but that pause, but one of these classes is on how to conduct a proper medical evaluation. True. But see, if you allow that space to go, and you only use true, not right, not correct, because those have harsh follow, harsh consent sounds. Truth is kind and we are looking for the truth. So to drop the filler where it's like, and so okay, et cetera. People will do that whole career until they discipline themselves not to. So we got to drop the taglines. Effectively using a flip chart, the flip chart is the greatest tool on cross-examination to control the witness, but effectively using it means writing legibly, putting only one topic per page and glance control. When you look at it, the jury looks at it. So that's effective use of the flip chart. Being in control of our emotional state, there's only two dominant emotions of cross, which are curiosity when we're laying foundations or disappointment, when we're showing bias or lack of credit, dishonesty, lying is another word.

And then occasionally bringing the jury in when it's ... Some people are comfortable asking all their juries questions to the jury. I think it's better to reserve for when it's like, "Hey, I need you to remember this. " And then you look at them, so now it stands out. So those are really the core skills. And

We learned this in context of a defense medical examination, but I'm teaching a bootcamp for a law firm coming to town next weekend from New York and unemployment law. So it's the same structure as for the HR director. "Mr. Yosha, in June 2023, you are the HR director for ABC Company. "True? True. To become HR director requires years of experience in the field. True. And then I'd say you're a certified HR professional. SHRM or the Society for Human Resources Management is an organization that certifies you. Because all these things about building the witness up because with this cross, it draws a line in the sand. Yeah.

I like it.

No, I'm saying with the ... Oh, because the cross on the defense medical expert is, " Doctor, you're trained on a proper medical examination, it must be impartial. "And my arm moves out when I talk with the rhythm of my voice, and at the end, my fingertips pop out towards you, my eyebrows raised for a moment, I hold it for a second and pause, then drop, implanting the question on you. But really it goes over the right way versus the wrong way. And it draws a line in the sand because you're saying without saying it that this witness is a lying stack of shit and you're about to prove it to the jury. So that way you're preloaded to look for the dishonesty. And also having the proper and bias pre-written on the flip chart, it causes a lot of anxiety in the way it is because this is not extemporaneous.

This is planned.

You've already told me. I'm in

One. I know. I'm not trying to say. I'm trying to explain to maybe other people who are listening what's it all about. Because the performance skills, it's about eye contact, hand movement, voice control, state control, ability to create space, create illusion of movement to really come to life because that's like a monologue as opposed to the ... Then finally, we got jury selection, which is all about the connection and getting people comfortable telling you who they really are. And so those are the core skills that we work on, but there's six weeks of prep. We're just getting started doing that so people, they know what the materials are before we get there. And then also we work on their cases too, because my buddy Shemik Lupecki, who's got 170 trials under his belt, but he studied under my mentor, Dave Clark, for the last couple of years, and Eric Oliver, who's a great trial consultant because I've done bootcamps with both of them that Shemek's participated in.

So he's going to help people with some of their case structure and case framing stuff too. That's awesome. And they have you to give your input too on some of the opening stuff. So it's going to be really great. I'm glad you're coming. And I think we got about eight people. The class is limited 10, so filling it up. It's going to be great. And it's good. I

Can't wait, man.

All right. Well, good visiting with you at the one hotel with our friend Nick Rowley and the trial by human community. And you're out from Indiana, go back to freeze your ass offices. But spring's coming, right? I heard it's getting warm out

There. Yeah, we're in the 60s. Dude,

That's like

Livable, not like

Freaking icy.

It's not this, but we have here.

No, it's still not.

Hollywood Hills.

You got the country out there. Got

The country.

All right, Brandon. We'll see you. Well, we're going to hang out a little bit worth the rest of time,

But

We're going to see you in-

Huntington Beach. Well,

Maybe Hermosa Beach before that, because the

Bootcamp

Starts off at Hermosa Beach at my house.

And

Then we moved down to Huntington Beach to the

Big

Hotel where everybody's going to join us. All right.

Thanks, Mike. I can't wait. Thank you so much, Dan. Appreciate you,

Brother. Dude, it's great shit.

Yep.

All right.