In conversation with Dr Amy Burnett of GreenFin and Centre for Enterprise, Environment and Development (CEEDR) at Middlesex University.

Amy talks about her background in place-based development, including NGO projects in Africa and Brazil. She also explains a little about her research work around sustainable financial growth in relation to SDGs

Finlay and Amy discuss their collaboration on a pitching event for nature-positive businesses and the associated support delivered by Raising Expert

Hi there and welcome to the Raising Expert podcast. Today I'm joined by Amy Burnett from Middlesex University. Hi Amy.

Hello, the Finlay, how are you doing?

I'm very well, thank you, and yourself.

Yeah, I'm very good. Yes.

first. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Right, so I have been with Middlesex University now for a couple of years and I'm currently with the Centre for Enterprise Environment and Development Research or CEEDR as we call ourselves. And CEEDR is a really nice department, it's a research department and we look at all sorts of things ranging from particularly SMEs in relation to enterprise but also kind of place -based

development, the voluntary and community and social enterprise sector, the role of green finance in innovation, and also what it means to kind of have good working practices as well. So it's a really nice kind of blend of an interface between investment, enterprise, SMEs and entrepreneurship, as well as the principles of what constitutes good economic development. And for me in particular, I'm interested.

in bringing in the role of planning because I have got a background also looking very much at kind of like the politics of planning and municipal and community -based planning, neighborhood planning, things like that. So for me, I just think it's really good because planning has got such a big role to play in that kind of bridging where employment sites are located, what kind of principles should be.

applied, like are we talking about kind of growth focused development or are we trying to look for something a little bit new, a little bit different that can incorporate these kind of nature positive principles that we're trying to encourage through the pitching event that we're going to run and the readiness coaching around that. So I think it's just a great kind of blend of lots of different sectors that can kind of come in and we can use the kind of lens of nature positive principles to think, well, how can we

work together for the common good, for the benefit of sustainable enterprise, sustainable prosperity, and also empower entrepreneurs and financiers to think about things a bit differently through the metrics that they're using of what that means to them.

Finlay

That's brilliant. I think I've told you before, I'm not sure if I've really unpacked this with listeners before. I did seven and a half years in economic development and the department that we were in was, the wider department, was planning and regeneration. So I'm totally with you on how important planning is.

and how that then joins up with policy and connects with the work that you're doing and the work that I'm doing. And it is really powerful, but for me it has to be quite joined up. And I think that's one of the exciting things about this partnership here, you know, that we're working across different disciplines, if you like. And have you...

Bean, you mentioned planning there. Do you come from an academic background? Is that mostly where your career has been?

So I've done lots of different things really. So I've always been kind of interested in the kind of politics of place making, but I didn't necessarily know what career that would actually mean for me, you know, as I was growing up. So I've kind of done stuff in Africa and Brazil around international development, decentralization, community -based projects, working for different NGOs.

I have also been involved in various environmental groups, particularly interested in the kind of new economic thinking of the transition town movement and supported community enterprises such as community land trusts and community energy groups where I've lived before. And particularly interested in the idea about regenerative positive principles and how they could be interlinked with the procurement process and...

kind of enable that community wealth building angle on everything. So they're the kind of like central themes that undercut what I do. And I've also got a background in, you know, understanding the metrics and the impact of all of this through monitoring and evaluation, accountability and learning lens. And that was something that I picked up working from Save the Children. They use this...

acronym called MEAL, as in monitoring, evaluation, accountability and learning, because often people talk about monitoring and evaluation, but it's that real accountability in the cycle of learning. And that kind of thinking helped to reinforce this idea of positive principles that we can continually apply in a reflexive way. So when we're looking at things like the Task Force for Nature -related Financial Disclosures, which has got some indicators, which are suggested to be implemented, particularly

more around the corporates, but you know, also very much the investor network and how to kind of drive nature positive principles. So through the use of, of net, you know, these kinds of indicators, having this kind of culture of reflexivity is really, really important because then you can enhance the quality of your interactions with your supply chains, other financiers, government, you know, that kind of intersection.

that you were just talking about and the role of like kind of economic development as a kind of bridge. And so that's how that kind of governance angle can be really important as well.

That's brilliant. What fantastic experience to bring from another sector, but also working in these different territories. That's fascinating. We don't have time to unpack all that. Another time we'll grab a coffee and you can tell me some of your stories about your travels. I look forward to that. Now, you've touched on this and you've come back to it a couple of times. And I think you're in a great...

place there at Middlesex University with Cedar. But you've also mentioned the Greenfin, and am I right in saying that that's like a research cluster and that's more specifically the area that we're talking about, raising equity investment for planet positive opportunities in businesses. Tell us a little bit more about that. Describe what Greenfin is and does, please.

Mm.

So the research clusters at the university, they're kind of interdisciplinary and although it was set up within the business school, it does invite membership from across the university who are interested in Greenfin. So what is Greenfin? Well, the strapline for Greenfin, the research cluster, is sustainable financial growth for clean tech and health tech startups. And within that, it's kind of covering things like the relationship of finance to

the SDGs, particularly it was looking at, you know, had that kind of public health angle around the COVID pandemic, which, you know, it's quite interesting, the things that came up as important in the COVID pandemic and the longevity of which we kind of view those things as important and how other things get kind of, yeah, either fall to the wayside or, you know, accelerated in some way. So,

So it's basically looking around how the role of finance can support clean and renewable energy, but also, you know, green has obviously got that nature positive angle. So basically anything to do with the role of investment when that could be public or private. And, you know, particularly from my angle, I'm really interested in the kind of community finance aspects of it and how green finance can again, like bridge that.

interface with placemaking and planning and it kind of enable like a localized investment ecosystem so you're not just dependent on you know the far -flung investor or the central government it's kind of really rooted in local need and circulating the role of you know positive investment and that's actually locally defined and allocated as well.

Yeah, that's brilliant. I love that pulling different schools together and looking at different things in different ways. I mean, I guess that's what universities are all about, but actually engaging with industry, you know, like what we're doing through this project. And I've always been, you know, I've been working in this space for about 12, 13 years and I've seen crowdfunding really evolve and develop.

over that time and I like how you explain that, not just crowdfunding in its most simple terms, but community funding and I think that's really interesting space to sit alongside public funding and pure private funding that community side. So I'm really interested to find out some more about that. Listen, let's move on to talk a little bit about the programme and the event that we're working on.

together. So we're working towards a pitching event on 20th of June on campus at Middlesex, which is going to be really exciting. And where we sit just now is we're reaching out to planet positive, nature positive businesses, and we're building a really good long list. And by the way, it's really refreshing to see how many

exciting entrepreneurial opportunities that are out there and at the same time building an investor audience and a stakeholder audience. Listen, you know, some of those people that you've mentioned there, let's get them in the room and see what we can do. So I'm obviously involved in that process on the event, developing the event and more so on supporting the entrepreneurs and the coaching.

But from you on a personal level and maybe on the research side Amy, what are you hoping to achieve? What do you hope that we get out of the event and engaging with these different audiences?

Firstly, I just want to say that if you can hear lots of sheep noises, it's because the farmer near me has decided to bring his sheep around the back of my office, which she does about once every month, and it's coincided with the time of this interview. So I hope they're not too loud and distracting. Yeah, so I think it's just a great way for the university to work with...

real people, you know, everybody complains about the ivory tower, etc. This is not an example of it. And so it's, you know, working with real investors, real people, potentially game changing ideas. And it's that kind of transfer between sitting thinking that you've got a good idea about something and actually supporting people to make it happen. And not only kind of making them think that they can do it, but actually giving them the skills and the mentorship.

and the kind of coaching with a cohort of other people so that they feel that they're kind of like in it together. So hopefully it can be quite a transformative experience for the entrepreneurs, but also really kind of making it clear what are the needs and the gaps and complementing the toolkit that we're developing for the SME Nature Positive Finance Project, which is part of the Integrating Finance and Biodiversity.

programme which is itself funded by the Natural Environment Research Council and Innovate UK. So we are really grateful to them for this funding because we're now in the kind of second phase of it and it's really helping us to consolidate stuff like this. You know it's not just doing research now we're actually kind of testing, applying, co -developing and who knows where it's going to lead because it's having those conversations.

with financiers as well in the room. So, you know, we've asked them, we've interviewed them, you know, asking them what kind of metrics they might be using and what are the challenges and opportunities. But now this is the step of bringing in investor and investee in a room with some ideas for the toolkit informed by our prior research and making it, you know, real and testable and importantly linking that.

to the work that's being done by the Task Force for Nature -related Financial Disclosures, et cetera, and trying to think about the indicators that they're suggesting and making it really user -friendly for SMEs in particular and startups who might not have sustainability managers and stuff at their beck and call. So yeah, it's just a really great opportunity to be action -focused and hopefully have some really transformative

outcomes for the actual people taking part and then linking that into these more formalised processes such as the TNFD.

Yeah, no, that's brilliant. I'm totally with you on that. I'm excited about helping people in that transformation. Absolutely. That's a great word. Let's hope it is for some or all of the entrepreneurs that are involved. Making it real for you, but also for the entrepreneurs. Slight criticism, and that's probably too strong a word. I see quite a lot of this activity.

in a kind of business competition or pitching to a panel. My personal preference is to make it real at the appropriate time. You know, listen, people have to go through a training and there has to be the preparation. And then it's like, well, let's see. And the real test is to actually pitch the idea to investors who are investing their money or money that they manage. Maybe just a quick note on sort of on angel investing.

Hopefully a lot of people that we get in the room bring a lot more than just finance. It's not just about money. That we can bring more support, experience, contacts. And we're definitely trying really hard to get the right audience in a kind of, to be aligned with your ethos and that of the businesses. So that makes it really exciting.

And then very quickly, you know, you mentioned the toolkit that you and your team have been developing. And I think that's a fantastic proposition to present to the businesses. And I really hope that they make the most of that and use it as you presented it to say, listen, you're a small team, but here are some expertise that you can sort of bolt on or include in your organization.

And I think that's a really nice way of thinking about it. So, listen, Amy, thank you very much for talking to me. We're at an exciting time just now, approaching the event and so on. And I look forward to working with you over the next few weeks to refine that. And then hopefully beyond that, as you say, helping with the transformation. So thank you very much for talking to me today.

Thank you very much Finlay and I just wanted to say it's been...

really great to work with you and also to be able to have the opportunity and to prepare for this event to bring in people like Oli Breen -Mackintosh and Catherine Wilder as well of Storyboard AI. You know, they're also really kind of pioneering systems thinkers and able to kind of complement very much like a shared vision of what we're trying to do. So it's just a great testament really to how funding can really shape like proper partnerships and bring, you know,

innovation in the academic and practice space. So I'm just very grateful to be part of this project because it's wonderful. So thank you very much.

Good, and you're absolutely right to check some of the wider group, it's not just us. Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Bye!

Bye.