This week we're talking to Certified Cheese Professional (best job title ever!) Janee' Muha about eating cheese for a living, photography, BandAids, why there's no cheese on a charcuterie board, and a ton more. We appeared on Janee's podcast The Mobile Monger earlier this year, and we're very excited to throw our own questions back! You can find more about Janee' here, including her blog, cheese recommendations, and social media.

Thank you for joining us today on Barnyard Language. If you enjoy the show, we encourage you to support us by becoming a patron. Go to Patreon to make a small monthly donation to help cover the cost of making a show. Please rate and review the podcast and follow the show so you never miss an episode.

 You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok as BarnyardLanguage, and on Twitter we are BarnyardPod. If you'd like to connect with other farming families, you can join our private Barnyard Language Facebook group. We're always in search of future guests for the podcast. If you or someone you know would like to chat with us, get in touch.

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Hi, and welcome to another episode of Barnyard Language.

Arlene and Katie here as usual, and although we're recording our update

before 9:00 AM Katie's time, she said it's already been a long day.

So, I think that deserves an update.

What's new and Iowa?

Katie, well, Arlene, this is already take two of the

intro today because my internet just shut down in protest.

As I mentioned in our, our first take of this work has been crazy busy.

I did somewhere upwards of three times my normal week's worth of work yesterday and

today is not looking any more promising.

And it was our county fair over the weekend.

And since our daycare is a community nonprofit, we sell ice cream at the fair

as a fundraiser, which is a lot of fun, but it makes for a long three day weekend.

And we had a lot of children, quote unquote, helping you know,

seven and eight year old kids.

Lots of enthusiasm.

Not always a super lot of help.

Right.

Tiny assistance.

But it's, yeah, it's, it's a good opportunity for them to learn

and, you know, I have to just keep reminding myself of that.

And we got our first strain in more than a month.

That was like more than a few drops here and there.

So we got about an inch and change of rain on Sunday morning, and then

it's gonna be 90 degrees all week.

So I'm pretty sure you can literally watch the corn growing

at this point, which is mm-hmm.

Great to see.

Because normally by now the grass and the weeds, it should be grass.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's actually my fault.

We bought a new lawnmower and I think that was the last day we got any rain.

Mm-hmm.

So I've only had to mow once because it hasn't grown at all, which, I'm

fine with, but the corn doesn't grow either, which I'm not fine with.

Yeah,

not fine with that.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm looping back to the county fair.

Wait, did you enter anything?

Did you dominate any categories?

This is our whole theme of the

podcast.

I dominated some serious by Sunday we were way overstaffed at the ice

cream stand and one of the volunteers is the president of the daycare board

and she has a three week old baby.

So I dominated baby holding and it was amazing.

Oh, nicely done.

I just sta sat in the corner, held the baby, kept her happy.

She's just real freaking cute.

Yeah.

And what were your kids' favorite parts of the fair this

year?

They only got to go Friday night, but they got to ride in a parade for daycare

and they enjoyed the heck outta that.

And I'm proud to say that both of my kids have a strong to throwing arm.

So, For me, I think the best part of the weekend was we were in a parade

Friday night, you know, and it's, it's a small town and we're cruising

down to Main Street in this hayrack full of little kids throwing candy.

And one of the moms, you know, they just moved to the area fairly recently and she

says, there's this guy that's just waving in, is yelling my name and yelling hi.

And she's like, could you friend of yours?

And I said, oh, that's our propane guy.

And she just kind of looked at me and it was like, it's small town, dude.

I, he's a very enthusiastic propane guy.

So kids had fun.

The, the girl child wanted to look at all the animals and we saw some rabbits.

And the county Fair lake, I think a lot of county fairs has been, On a bit

of a downhill slide popularity wise for quite a few years, and they've

done such great work that they had more cattle than they had barns this

year, which is an amazing thing.

Yeah, they were still showing cattle good problem to have.

Yep.

They were showing cattle late into the night, both nights.

And the kids got to see a cow being fitted, which when I told the girl child

that they were blow drying the cow, she was just beside herself with laughter at

the idea that you would blow dry a cow.

So it's a, it's a very small fair, but it's a very small town and mm-hmm.

You know,

people had fun.

So, yeah.

Would most, I guess this is another Canadian question.

Do most counties have a fair still like.

Or are there are some areas where they would combine with other

counties or don't have fairs anymore.

Like ours are not, I mean, ARC are kind of now just based in whatever location,

still has a fairground and still has a Ag society that will run it kind of thing.

It's not on a county

level.

Certainly in Iowa, I think all of our counties have a fair, the interesting

part about our county fair is that it's technically not a county

fair because the town is literally at the corner of four counties.

So it's far enough away from any of the county seats that it's not practical for

kids to go to any of those fairgrounds.

So they have a fairgrounds in town and it's called the Big four Fair, but they're

still eligible to go to state Fair.

So I don't really understand that.

Okay.

My friend Susie's kid dominated the.

Tractor pedal pole for his age group and we'll be proceeding to state.

So that was exciting.

Yeah, serious.

I don't know what his training regimen is.

Maybe we could get him on to, to discuss that with us about how

you Yeah, that's, yeah.

Train for how you're prepare for that event.

Yeah.

Right.

So any kind of, any event can qualify you to move on to state.

Cuz that's a thing that we don't really have either.

Like there isn't like provincial fairs, like some things you can go to the Royal

Winter Fair in Toronto, but that's not even really provincial necessarily.

It's the big fair, but there's not like a straight hierarchy from like county

to province or something like that.

So it's a different system.

Yeah.

And I think I.

Something that people miss when they're making fun of rural areas, is

that at the state level, I mean, Iowa has one of the biggest state fairs

in the country and showing livestock at the state level, and winning can

be a lot of money in prize money.

Mm-hmm.

Like tens and tens of thousands of dollars, like a lot of money.

So there is, you know, it's, it's pretty competitive.

And there have been some scandals, which is kind of ridiculous,

but also it's a lot of money.

And anytime there's money on the line, somebody will find a way to cheat

even when there's not money on the line.

Sometimes people find a way to

cheat, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

We should try and find

a ringer for the pedal school next year.

There's can, yeah, there can be scandal in any industry and those of us who

show animals or have shown animals know that we're we're no exception.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know.

In Canada, is it a thing?

One of the biggest attractions at the Iowa State Fair is they'll have like

the biggest bull or the biggest bore, you know, and they'll find some like

freak of nature animal to display That is just, you know, and of course it's

an August and it's hot, and this poor animal will just be like sacked out.

Just, yeah.

I mean, you're very well taken care of, don't get me wrong.

Sure.

But yeah, it's still August

in Iowa.

No, I've, I mean, like the biggest pumpkin or, you know,

like biggest vegetable, tallest sunflower, like that kind of stuff.

But I don't know that I've ever seen like a, an animal category for that

makes me think of Charlotte's Web.

I actually had a dream.

The other night after we talked after Kevin's episode came out about

the oxen and he was talking about how steers get taller than bulls.

And I had a dream that night that I had gone back to milking cows full time.

But the farm I was milking for had developed draft cows that

were like draft horses in size.

They were just massive.

And I was like, there's no way this is a good idea.

You know, they're like with giant feet too herons that are, you know,

Holsteins and their utters or, you know, the same it was, but I mean,

they were like, they would've been freakishly big even for percherons.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, my brain is a strange place.

Yeah.

Brains do

weird things at

night.

They do.

How is your life going?

Arlie?

Things are good.

School is winding down, so like I said last week, that adds a

different level of busyness.

And then I feel like I need to cram my last few days of relative

child free freedom full of stuff.

So I have a few visits and hair appointment and all that kind

of stuff booked in this week.

Some more hay is getting cut.

The older two are doing exams.

So that's a few extra drives in and out of the school because they have shorter days.

They just write one exam a day.

So they don't, the buses still run at their regular time, but they only

actually have to go for a couple of hours.

And this past weekend we got, my husband and I got invited

to a wedding, which was fun.

We got to get dressed up and go to a wedding.

It was people that we know through agriculture, so it was in the

city, but lots of, still, lots of farm talk around the tables.

And we both learned that while a late night poutine buffet is delicious,

that we are in our forties too old to eat a late night poutine buffet and

still be able to fall asleep later cuz the the heartburn, the results from

that was not the most comfortable.

But, you know, lessons learned should have just stuck to the wedding

cake.

Thanks for sending the pictures of that.

By the way, you jerk.

I have not been that hungry in a long time.

Arlene was sending me Snap.

Yes, but you were

probably able to sleep that night.

And I had to prop myself up on a bio pillows because I

had Poutine Hartford and I

also thought, sounds like terrible band name.

Yeah.

Poutine, Hartford Hartford.

I speaking of poutine, I was in Montreal yesterday.

We're recording on Tuesday on the grade seven, eight field

trip for the kids' school.

So number three is in grade seven.

So I got to go on that field trip.

So we went to kind of like a small zoo type thing.

It's called the biodome.

So like an indoor animal attraction with different habitats, that kind of thing.

And then they went to a maze experience and then we went down to the old port

of Montreal where all the historical buildings are and all the touristy stuff.

So there were lots of Putin options down there as well.

But after Saturday night's, Putin Buffet, I, I opted out of, out of more.

More cheese curds and gravy, although it is delicious.

But as always, I just, what's on appreciate buffet, teachers buffet?

This one had a couple different kinds of fries.

So you could have like your regular or your sweet potato.

They had a couple kinds of gravy.

There was like a classic and then there was like more of like a meat

sauce type one, no variety in curd, just your white, white cheese curd.

So that was usual.

And then they had some different, like, more like powdered flavoring,

like there was like a TexMex or a like a few different like spices

and things you could add to the top.

So not super extensive, but you had some options.

And circling back to teacher appreciation was going to Montreal

with a bunch of seventh graders.

Everything you had ever dreamed of, Arlene.

It was

about what I expected.

The bonus this time was that we had a coach bus instead of a school bus.

So that alone was much more relaxing because at least when

you were in transport mode, cuz it's a just shy of three hours.

So six hours of driving in a day because we're not really allowed to do overnight

trips anymore because of insurance and money and all kinds of different reasons.

But so yeah, doing, doing that much driving in one day in a school bus

would've been much less appealing.

But yeah, it was about what I expected.

If you like doing attractions at really fast speed and not really

looking at anything that, that's the That's the trip for you?

Probably similar to, you know, any age of kid under about 16.

You know, you don't need to spend too much time looking at any, anything.

Although the Cappi bar is, we spent a few minutes there.

They're

pretty adorable.

They're pretty cute.

Our Canadian buses the same as American buses, that the standard seat is green

vinyl and completely flat with no, nothing that would suggest that spending six

hours bouncing up and down on it would be a particularly enjoyable experience.

Pretty

much.

Yeah.

Some of them are great, but yeah, it's definitely that

yeah, wipe down vinyl situation.

Yeah.

So the, the coach was a, was a definite bonus onus, and the kids at this age are

old enough that, you know, you can turn around and check on them every once in a

while, but for the most part, the adults can sit in one zone and the kids in

another and you don't actually have to be involved in their, their bus conversation.

So that's, that's pretty

good too.

That is very pleasing.

Yeah, so should we go ahead and introduce our guest for the week?

I suppose we should.

Makes it feel exciting.

Today we are talking to Janae Muha from Seattle, Washington, and

we start each of the, our interviews with the same question, Janae.

So this is a way to introduce yourself to our listeners, and we

always ask, what are you growing?

So for farmers that covers crops and livestock, but it also can cover families,

businesses, all kinds of other stuff.

So Janae, what are you growing?

Well, I think that right now the main thing that I am

growing is my photography skills.

So I've been doing photography since about 2016 ish.

And I'm really delving into, and that was all self-taught.

So now I'm working at the photographic center Northwest and taking some

fine art digital classes and studio lighting classes and just

really trying to up that knowledge.

So knowledge is what I'm growing.

That is great.

Investing in your in your brain.

Right, exactly.

So what are the things you're having to unlearn?

Cuz I always find when you're learning again, then you're teaching

yourself the, the stuff that you don't want to do anymore sometimes.

Oh.

I guess not relying on my light meter so much and actually looking at my

histogram, it's all very photograph like deep photo photo stuff.

So, yeah.

Yeah, you're getting into the details.

I think that that is details.

Yeah.

And just trying to train my brain to see things in different ways with

like light especially cuz we're with my studio lighting class, that's what

we're working on is playing with light and just kind of really having to

think about light in a different way.

Yeah, that's a good one cuz so often I think when you go to

take a picture, you're just focused on getting the right image, but

yeah, not really thinking about.

You know what, it's what it's gonna turn out based on, you know, like yeah.

Where the, where the sun is, or if there's light coming from different

directions or things like that.

Deep.

And then it always ends up being a surprise.

Yeah.

It's like, oh, it's deep.

There's a reflection off of that I wasn't expecting.

Yeah.

And I mean, getting the right image means looking at the light and making

sure that the light is in a space where you can actually get the image

that you have in your mind's eye.

Because that's the hardest part is you have this idea of what the photo is

gonna look like in the end, but getting there is, there's a lot of stuff.

And math, I'm not really happy about that part, but like, it'll

figure, I'll figure it out.

You know, math is not my, yeah.

My forte.

So

before you know it, I'm sure it'll just come automatically.

Yeah.

Janae, it feels like I.

Learning photography or any sort of art is a lot like learning food and

building your palette that you can learn all the technical parts, but

at some point you have to just trust your own instinct and intuition.

So I'm wondering how much overlap you see there or how that's how

having built one kind of palette and intuition has worked with learning

it again, but in a different medium.

Yeah, and it's interesting because thinking about this right now because I

am in these initial digital photography classes, I've always kind of done events

and like, you know, just to practice because, you know, I've always done

the American Cheese Society conference.

I've always photographed that and I've done a few five Ks and stuff, like

things surrounding the cheese world.

But now it's.

The classes that I'm in are pushing me to basically build my creative eye and have

a sense of who I am through photography.

And that has been proving to be a lot more difficult than I initially imagined.

Cuz before it was always just like, oh, just capture the thing that's happening.

Whereas now I have to be like, intentional, like,

what am I trying to capture?

How can I use the available light and scenery that I'm

around to capture the thing that encompasses what I'm trying to say?

And that's a, that's a lot deeper than, than I had ever

really like, taken photography.

And I think the same happened with me in the cheese world because

when I started working in cheese, I didn't really take it that seriously.

It was just kind of like, okay, well this is a cool job

and like something different.

And it took a while for it to be like, no, this is actually.

This is actually the thing that I want to do with my life and this is the thing

that I'm super passionate about and the thing that I love learning more about

and the people that I love to be around.

So I think it's kind of in the same realm where I feel really comfortable

in my sp spot in the cheese world, but now I'm trying to figure out my

creative vision, if you will, and how that marries to the cheese world too.

Cuz obviously cheese is the main thing I take photos of.

Seems And farms.

Lots of farms too.

Yeah, it seems like too, it's a lot like the difference of going from

paint by number, you know Bob Ross, you know, watching somebody else instruct

you to making something completely new where food is the same that you know

when you start learning, you're working from recipes and maybe you keep working

from recipes and that's totally cool.

Or maybe you.

Just go rogue and start doing your own damn thing, you know?

And it's, it is hard to make that leap, I think, from following directions to

really just throwing yourself out there.

And upside, at least with, especially with digital photography, is that

if it sucks, you can just delete it.

Like there's not quite the same here.

Is five gallons of milk gonna throw it away?

You know?

Yeah.

It's not quite the same impact there.

Yeah.

If I don't get it on the first time, I have more options to grab it.

You know, like there's definitely more options to keep trying to get the shot.

I do have quite a few classmates that are in the film side of things, which

is much more akin to losing that five gallons of milk where you have to

be really intentional with the shot that you're taking because, It's a

lot of work to get to that end point.

And one day I'll start playing with film, but I, I wanna feel

like I have a good standing where I am in the digital world first.

Yeah.

Having done film photography and then, you know, is as the world has progressed

moving to digital, it is nice to be able to have at least a pretty good

idea of whether you got the shot before it's however much later in your're

developing things, you know, to, to have some idea if you totally missed it.

So knowing that you're in cheese, you are a certified cheese

professional, how do you get a job like that and where can we sign up?

Because I feel like this might be, you know, I did actually take the,

the week long Wisconsin cheese class and that is, that's a whole thing.

Did the dairy show course highly recommend?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I took that also.

It was in 10, so you're one step

there.

Yeah.

You know, maybe I can freelance cheese professional, you know, or

am amateur cheese professional.

There you go.

Yeah.

So the certified Cheese Professional is not a job per se,

it's definitely a designation.

It's for people who have been working in the cheese industry for

at least two years, I think there's a certain hour limit that you have to

reach before you can take the test.

But it, it equals out to basically full-time, two years

working in the cheese industry.

And that can be anything with.

A cheese mongrave working behind the counter.

It can be someone who works in distribution that works a lot with cheese.

It can be production manufacturing, it can be cheese makers.

And I know that they had been trying to work on a cheesemaker certification too,

but that one is a lot harder to kind of manage and to create a test around.

So after your two years, you take I think it's 150 multiple

choice question test that.

Runs the gamut of everything between cheese science to food

safety to distribution patterns.

And then, you know, some basic questions around designations in Europe and

it's, it kind of, it's very broad and so it's can be very difficult for a

lot of people, but they really try to make it to where if you've been

working in cheese for two years, you should already have this knowledge.

So they try not to make it that hard, but it is very difficult cuz I.

Cheese science is a very real, real deep, deep, deep rabbit hole.

And some people can really get stuck in that world.

And then when you start talking about hassett plans and FISMA and that sort

of stuff, that's a whole other world that as a cheesemonger you don't

really have to worry about as much.

So some of that stuff can also get a little dicey, but basically anybody that

works in the cheese realm, at some point, if you've been doing it for two years,

you can take the test and get certified.

So what do you think the, what is the value in getting certified?

Because I know, I know folks who, I mean, I feel like have a valid

point that, you know, especially with cheese making, either you can

make cheese or you can't, you know.

But there are certainly some real benefits to actually studying and, you know,

having that more Developed curriculum of what you're, of, what you're learning.

So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that, you know?

Yeah, and I know plenty of people who've been working in cheese

for a really long time who don't have the certification and they are

still very much chief professionals.

For me, it really came down to when I was on the second round of testing.

So I had tested in 2013, so it was the second year that they had offered it up.

And I had already been working in the industry for like 11 years.

So I've been in the industry now for 21.

And to me it was just a.

When I first started working in cheese, I would tell people I was

a cheesemonger and they would laugh and be like, that is ridiculous.

That's the dumbest job I've ever heard of.

Like, that's not real.

And then, you know, over time it so slowly started to get, like now when I tell

people that I worked as a cheesemonger for so many years, they'd be like, oh

my God, that's the coolest job ever.

So perception has definitely changed over time, but at that point I really

wanted that kind of validation, that like the things that I've

been doing for over a decade were relevant and actually like a thing.

And I didn't go to college so I didn't have a degree, so I kind of

felt like that gave me some like, you know, some standing, if you will.

And then at that time I was also working at Whole Foods and I knew

that I didn't want to be behind a corporate cheese counter forever.

And I knew that I wanted to kind of, blaze my own path, if you will, and having.

That certification has really helped in my freelance career and given me that

credence that, you know, when I can say that I'm a certified chief professional,

even if people don't see me working behind a counter, it still holds weight

that I know what I'm talking about.

And not everybody needs that, and I don't always need it.

Most of the time I tell people I work in cheese and within five

minutes they're like, oh, you know what you're talking about?

Like, you're, you're, yeah, you're a nerd.

But it really did help in that time for my own self-confidence and just

to have that that credence of like, I know what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

What was it that brought you into the cheese business to begin with, and what

do you think was it that kept you around?

You know, like what was your, kind of like, what was the gateway and

then what was it about, about being in cheese that that meant that you

stayed for as long as you have?

Well, it was completely by accident at first, and so many

cheese people will tell you this.

I was living in Chicago at the time and I knew I wanted to move back

home to the Portland area, and they had just opened one Whole Foods in

Portland and I wanted to move back home.

So I got a job at Whole Foods and fortunately, I had a friend who worked

at that store and was able to get me an interview in the specialty department,

which is very difficult to get to into, especially in that time in 2002, 2003.

And I, it was purely just so I could say I had more of an option to get

a job when I got home, because even then though, like that one Whole

Foods was incredibly, like, it was very competitive to get a job there.

A lot of people had moved out from California to work there.

And I even had to like take a break from cheese for a while and

work in the seafood department just so I had another department

under my belt so I could transfer.

And at first cheese was just kind of like, well this is

cool, it's something different.

Like I have, you know, I grew up very poor and like did not understand

like literally on government cheese, so I had no concept of it.

And when I started in Chicago I was like, well, they carry Tillamook.

That's like, you know, from my homeland.

Like I know this.

And then it just slowly but surely all of these doors kind of started opening

in my brain of like, wow, this is like totally different than anything

I've ever experienced in my life.

And there's always so much more to learn.

And that is really what has kept me.

That and the people, honestly, the just constant learning.

Like there's never a point where I will ever call myself an expert because I will

never know everything there is to know about cheese and the industry involved.

And that is just super exciting.

There's never gonna be a point where I'm gonna be behind my desk just

being like, Ugh, boring, boring.

I already know everything.

Yeah, done that.

Done.

And then also the people done that.

I already know that.

Yeah.

Right.

And then also like cheese is delicious, so like Yeah.

Even if I did know everything, oh well, I still get to taste delicious things.

That's right.

And, and the people involved are some of the most hardworking, humble, wonderful

people that I have ever met in my life.

And I just really, those are the things that keep me engaged and involved

in the cheese world for so long.

For sure.

So I know there's probably a ton that goes into being a cheesemonger

that we wouldn't even think about.

So what are the most important elements of, of the job or, or you know, kind of

in those beginning stages when you're learning, like what do you need to figure

out so that you can do your job well?

Just, I.

I think when people first start off, they really get overwhelmed by the amount

of knowledge they feel that they need.

But that's not necessarily the truth at all.

Honestly, food safety and like making sure you're washing your hands and your

cutters and that sort of thing are always gonna be the first and foremost cuz all

of the knowledge will come with time.

But just those general basics of the job, making sure that you're cutting

things properly and the intricacies of like the day-to-day stuff.

Because the fun part about it is when customers ask you questions,

then you get to learn with them.

And so that part is always like, you're never gonna have a time where you're

not gonna be learning from people.

So yeah, you can have the knowledge, but all of those little bits of

the rest of the job I think are.

What people should be focusing on first.

And then I've always tried to tell that when I train people, like, don't

worry about the knowledge so much.

Like, let's work on cutting and wrapping, making sure that you're cleaning your

stations taking out the trash, not throwing stuff on the floor, like

the basic food safety stuff is, to me, I think the most important part.

Yeah.

Maybe not the most fun, I guess, but Yeah.

Critical, critical first steps for sure.

Yes.

And then once you have all that down, then you can have 20 minute conversations

with your customers about what cheese and like their trip to France where they

had this one specific cheese and they're looking for that white cheese again.

You know?

But all of those other things are just always kind of in the background of like

how we move through behind the counter.

And we also don't wanna make people sick, so it's a ready to eat product.

Yeah.

And so we don't wanna, that's important.

We don't wanna get anybody sick from some something that we're doing.

So tell us a little bit more about the mobile monger.

What are you, what's your podcast about and who is your, your target audience?

Yeah.

Well, the mobile monger started, it's had many iterations over time in

terms of what my plans for this were.

I initially came up with the name because I had the idea of doing a

mobile cheese truck, but I don't think I wanna do that anymore.

In fact, that is long gone.

And then it was a blog and I did a lot of travel blogging.

And then when Covid hit travel was taken off the table entirely so, And

one thing that really kind of came up at the beginning of the pandemic

for Cheesemakers was there was this kind of big rush to talk about

like, everybody needs to buy cheese.

Cuz a lot of Cheesemakers lost their distribution, like 70% of

their distribution almost overnight.

And so there was just this talk about like, we need to help the Cheesemakers.

And I kept hearing that, but not really from Cheesemakers in terms of

them telling us what they actually needed us to do to make it happen.

So I set up a week on Facebook Live and talked to, I don't know, 20 or

30 cheesemakers over the course of the week from all levels from tiny

companies that are really just selling in their region to Jasper Hill Farms and

ones that are nationally distributed.

To really kind of get the, the, to really figure out what it is

they needed from people to do.

And obviously buy cheese was, was a big piece of it, but there were also

some people that were doing really interesting things, starting to

work with CSAs and stuff like that.

And I was hoping that in having those conversations, other cheesemakers would

be able to kind of pick up on these ideas and run with it in their own area.

And I also just wanted consumers, cheesemongers, all of that to

understand where people were kind of sitting on this level.

It wasn't like you know, one strategy fits all because everybody had different needs.

So I did that and then a year later, and I had been wanting to start a

podcast for, oh gosh, 10 years, but I was too scared to but after doing that

week, I was like, wait a minute, people actually kinda do wanna talk to me.

Okay.

Maybe this could work.

Finally.

So a year later I wanted to kind of revisit that conversation as to like, you

know, here we are a year, you know, 2021, where are we at in the state of the world?

What does the cheese industry look like now?

So I revisited a lot of those conversations and then just started

talking to a lot of my friends and other cheese mongers and people in the industry

who I don't feel always get the spotlight.

So just trying to kind of shine a light on other people who maybe people don't know.

And one of my gifts in this world is being able to network and I can

basically walk into any room and talk to everybody in the room and make friends.

So that is always something that I'm trying to do is connect, network

with people, talk to people, and this is a great way for me to do it and

let people tell their own stories in their own words, which I think

is such a valuable piece to life.

Sorry, still working on my new computer here.

Yeah, and that's a good segue to say that Jenae actually had us on her podcast.

So if you wanna listen to us talk about cheese or parenting and farming our

usual topic, you can check out the mobile monger for our episode or anybody else's.

So Janae, I will admit that during the first round of lockdown, I bought supplies

to make cheese because I live in a dairy farm and I thought I can, I can order some

stuff on Amazon and I'll make cheese cuz everyone was getting back to the earth

and I've been too inti intimidated to actually start so, If I'm making cheese

with the supplies that hopefully have not expired and maybe they have what's,

what's the, like, the first one that I should try or what's relatively easy if

you're feeling intimidated by cheese?

Ricotta, baby, fresh ricotta.

I mean, you just need some citric acid basically.

And you just get this like fluffy light.

I mean, ricotta is one of my favorite things.

The last counter I worked behind, we sold bulk ricotta and my nightly treat, it was

like my, my night cap of the evening would always be a little spoonful of just little

milk ricotta cuz it's just so fresh and clean and you have to have really good

quality milk to make it taste really good.

So, and it's super easy to make, but it's just so refreshing and you can

use it in a lot of different things.

But also ricotta toast, I think is better than avocado toast.

That sounds pretty delicious.

Probably ricotta and avocado would taste good

together too.

Absolutely.

Fat on fat.

Bring it on.

Yeah,

that's right.

I like how you think fat on fat do it.

I like that.

So if our listeners are thinking about getting into the cheese business or

cheese making, what are some things that they need to be considering?

Well, it depends on where they wanna work.

It's, and also kind of how old you are, to be honest, because it's backbreaking work.

Working behind a counter or being a cheesemaker is very hard on your body.

There's lots of cleaning involved.

I mean, cheeses are, God bless them.

I mean, they are glorified dishwashers because like they have like an hour

of active cheese making time and then the rest of it is all sanitation.

So, I think that is definitely a consideration that you have to look into

of what your body can actually handle.

I mean, I did it for so many years in my early twenties, and now part of my body

is broken from pushing myself too much and just the, the hardness of the job.

Because you're breaking down 80 pound wheels of cheese,

you're doing repetitive motions.

There's a lot of things that you don't think about.

Like I have, you know, shoulder issues.

I have bad hip.

You know, there's a lot of places in your body that you don't think is being

affected until many years down the line.

That's why I'm always telling these young cheese cheesemongers,

like, put a mat under your feet.

Trust me, when you're 45, you'll thank yourself.

Cuz you know, it's easy to think when you're in your early twenties.

Oh, it doesn't matter.

It, it matters.

It matters.

And the fact that you're probably not gonna get paid very much.

That is a very real, real thing too.

People are like, oh yeah, I'm gonna get into cheese because they see the

prices on the counter and they're like, well, clearly there's money in cheese.

And the reality of the situation is that most cheese mongers are being paid.

Minimum wage may be a little bit more if they're lucky.

And honestly, most cheesemakers also, it is not not a get rich

quick scheme by any means.

There are definitely some people who are making a lot of money in the cheese

world, but they are very large companies and not small shops that are just trying

to get by and eat small cheesemakers too.

So there's a lot of things to to think about when you're getting into

it, but like I said, the people.

That I'm around are amazing and my husband and I always joke that I don't

get paid much, but we eat darn well.

I always have so much of the best American artists and cheese in my refrigerator

usually at any given point in time.

I mean, I've got a bunch of European stuff in there now too.

Like we always eat really well, so I don't get paid necessarily

dollar wise really well, but cheese is worth its weight in gold.

Yeah, that that's a good, that's a good way to get paid for sure.

All the melted cheeses.

So like you were mentioning before, you're a photographer and if anyone's

not already following you on Instagram they should because you have a

beautiful selection of pictures.

Lots of like cow shots too, which we're always fans of.

So if people are trying to capture photos of their farms a lot of our

listeners are farmers obviously, whether it's for social media or for their

websites or even just for themselves to capture memories with their kids.

What are some things to keep in mind when you're trying to

capture those everyday moments?

Oh boy, that's a, yeah.

I mean, I'm really fortunate that I have a contract with the Washington

State Cheesemakers Association.

So I do get out to farms and like taking photos for their social media

and their marketing cuz that is hard, a hard thing to do cuz finding the

time when you're busy doing chores to like snap a pick of something.

It's hard to fit that in and to be reminded of that every day.

I think just making it a practice to do it is huge because just putting it

into your routine, even if it seems like it's not worth it, people really

love animal photos, cow photos, baby animal photos, all of that stuff.

So I think that just making the practice of doing it is actually probably one of

the biggest pieces of the whole puzzle because when I go out to a farm, I

don't have any other responsibilities.

I'm just there to capture.

So I don't have the laundry list of other things that needs to get done.

It's just a matter of like, I'm just there to do this one thing.

So if people can just put that time and energy into, you know, once a week or

something, just capturing something, you can really find a lot of content

to share with other people on social media or on your website and whatnot.

And also I think farmers, they know their animals best.

So like, you know, when the time is gonna be that the animals are a

little bit more calm and willing to, you know, play around a bit more.

And I think that taking that time to really kind of capture some stuff,

like, you know, not when they're in the milk line, ready to, ready to

get milked when they're just like anxious to get it done and over with.

You know, finding those times where they're well fed and they're just

like more chill is always a great time to kind of capitalize on that.

And finding the right light.

Yeah, finding the time of day where it isn't super harsh light, but like, you

know, early morning is when you guys are out there, that's a great time when you

still have plenty of early morning blue light and it's just nice and pretty.

I think those are always great, but I think just really making it a

practice and taking the time to do it.

Jena, can you tell

her, that's good point, because sometimes you think.

Sorry.

I was just gonna say like, in the moment it's like, oh, that's cute.

I'll snap that picture.

But yeah, to give yourself a few extra minutes every day to be

just like, look around, you know, like, look, look for the shot.

Rather than just snap and go or like in, in the, on your

way out the door kind of thing.

Janae too.

Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about the, the golden hour

light, because I know, you know, having done photographs of my own livestock

and you know, kids, whatever, that I think you're absolutely right that the

better lighting is the fastest way to improve what your photos look like.

Cuz nobody looks pretty at like one o'clock in the afternoon.

It's just, it's not good.

Yeah.

Well, you know, as.

I think especially being farmers, you are more in tune with the patterns

of the sun and because you have to be, because the animals are.

So I think just really kind of looking at that in the morning, you're gonna

have that kind of soft blue light.

And it changes throughout the day.

But yeah, one o'clock in the afternoon, that's when the sun

is beating down on everything.

It's all harsh, hard light, which has its merits.

Cuz I've gotten some really great photos in that time period too.

But it is something you have to contend with a lot more.

Like you don't want anything back lit in that time period because

it's just gonna be really harsh and then as the sun starts going down,

you start getting a lot warmer.

I mean, they literally make Instagram presets that mimic the orangeness

of the golden hour or the warmness I guess, of the golden hour.

So like, It's a thing and that is also something that makes things

look, I I think it gives a even more like nostalgic look to things,

which I think is really pretty and can be great for like scrapbooks or

like photo albums down the line too.

But I think it's just really paying attention to watching the light and

as it changes throughout the day.

So like my focus, I've always kind of done photos within natural light settings, so

I'm definitely a lot more keen on that.

The studio lighting basics class that I'm taking is a out of my realm

cuz I don't have a home photography studio and never really worked with

like, fake lighting essentially.

And that is blowing my mind in so many other ways that you can mimic

it, but you can also like just do something completely different with

light that you can't do naturally.

So, Yeah, I think just paying attention.

I think everybody is already paying attention, but they're

just not recognizing it.

I, this has totally still me, isn't it?

I get distracted when I add questions and then I'm like, what is happening?

So one of the, the biggest issues that I think people have with coming

into the fancier foods is the amount of gatekeeping around the language we

use and the asshole nature of people who are very, you know, well, your,

your palette is not developed enough.

I'm, I'm thinking about how we learn the right words for describing flavors

and textures and things, or how we can encourage people to just not be

jackasses because, I mean, honestly, as much as we love cheese, it's, it's

really a jerk thing to be a jerk about.

You know, it's, it's not like brain surgery or something.

So if somebody uses the wrong word to describe a texture, being an

asshole to them is really a dick move.

Yeah.

A

fully agreed.

And I think that more cheese mongers these days are really

bucking that tradition, if you will.

I think it gets really intimidating for people when they walk up to

a cheese counter because a lot of the verbiage is very similar to the

wine world, and we all know that the wine world is very gate also.

But I think that it's not necessarily about finding the right words,

but finding a shared language when you're talking to a cheesemonger.

And that can be hard to do.

And I think it's a two-way street of the Cheesemonger needs to be open

to receiving what the customer is bringing and what they're asking.

But I also think customers need to be open to the direction of a cheesemonger

of someone who works behind a counter all the time and knows what, what

they're talking about behind the counter.

And that requires a lot of questions and some people don't wanna be

bothered with answering questions.

But we're trying to, when we ask those questions from behind the counter,

we are trying to find that shared language so we can be on the same page

and it's not necessarily the right.

In quotation marks words for it.

But I want to find that shared language so we can both be on the same page,

and I can give you exactly what you're looking for because ultimately

most cheese mongers want to give the customer the best experience of eating

cheese they've ever had in their life.

I mean, that's what a passionate cheesemonger is really looking forward

to, of like giving a taste to someone.

And you can kind of like see it in their face when their eyes close and they

kind of do that little, little shoulder shake a little bit, and they're just

like, there's something so pure and wonderful about seeing that moment, and

that's what we're all striving for every single day with every single customer.

But I think it just takes really an openness between, you know,

both people to take feedback, hear feedback, you know, it's, it's a,

it's a game that you're playing, you know, it's a kind of a back and forth.

I mean, not necessarily a game, but like, It's a symbiotic relationship.

So I think the, everybody just needs to be open about that.

And thankfully things are changing in the, in the realm of, it

seems a lot less gatekeeper.

People are really actively trying to stop that from happening.

And there are definitely some places that you walk into and you're

like, man, those people, not nice.

But hopefully you have another place to buy cheese or you can find

one cheese monger there that does treat you well and with respect and

that you can work with really well.

But like I said, you have to be, you have to walk in and even if you are

intimidated and overwhelmed, understand that they are there to do their job and

that they know what they're doing and kind of like hand over the reins to a

little, to them a little bit like I.

I think about this a lot in the way of, like, I think about the

same thing with tattoo artists.

Like when I go get a tattoo, I give them my mood board, if you will, of

like, here's the idea that I have.

Here's the, you know, some photos or even getting a haircut even, you

know, here's some ideas and photos, but I wanna work with you to make

the thing that is perfect for me.

And the same thing happens behind the cheese case.

When you walk up to a cheese case, you can be like, Hey you know,

you don't even have to say, I don't know anything about cheese.

You're not supposed to.

That's what the cheese monger is getting paid for.

They know that they're getting paid to know about cheese.

So you can just ask them like, you know, what you're doing.

Are you having a party?

Is this just for you to eat at home, you know, at two o'clock in the morning?

Like, what are you, what are your plans for your time eating this cheese?

And then if you like stronger cheeses or more mild cheeses, they're gonna

ask you so many leading questions to find the perfect cheese for you.

And if you're adventurous, you could also just be like, what's

your favorite thing today?

And give me that and be done with it.

You know?

So you just never know what you're gonna get on that level.

So that's definitely first people who don't mind giving up control.

I think it's just really about openness.

Yeah.

Mystery cheese.

Yeah.

One of my, my big goals for myself is to give up my anxiety about looking

stupid for not knowing things and trying to really push myself to do things.

Like saying you're the professional, you know, like getting my hair cut.

You're the one who cuts hair all day, like, You know, I want it short.

You know, I don't care what color it is, just make it happen, you know?

Or going into a new restaurant and saying, I don't know what I want.

These are things I like, these are things I don't like.

Help me out here, because you are the one who spends so

much of your life doing this.

And it's been such a great experience and it's so much more fun.

And I know as someone who's been on the other side of that, it is so much more

fun to work with people who wanna let you do what you like to do and aren't

just, you know, nitpicking along the way.

So I think there's a lot to be said for not being a control freak as hard as

it is to, to let other people do stuff.

It's hard, but also you can't know everything about everything.

So there are just gonna be those times where you walk into a

situation where you're not gonna know what's going on and that's okay.

I don't know, I don't know where this idea came from of like, you have to be secure

in every, every interaction you have in life, cuz that's just not gonna happen.

So I try to walk into every situation with a little more openness and

curiosity I think is a huge piece of it.

Just being curious about what it is, what's going on, and asking questions and

just having the general sense of like, wow, there are 200 cheeses in this case.

Like, how do I pick one?

Well, you talk to the cheese monger and you whittle it down and taste some things.

And even if you don't know what you like or don't like, they're

gonna help you figure it out.

And that's the fun part.

I mean, honestly, you're also gonna come away with something

that you never expected.

And that's so much fun.

Like, you can think that you're gonna walk in and this is what I'm

gonna buy and this is what I want.

And then you talk to the cheesemonger and open yourself up to it, and

you're gonna get just completely blown away with something absolutely

new that you never really thought of, was never on your radar.

And that is just so much fun.

You just have to find the fun in it.

So when we were on your podcast, you asked us some fabulous questions

about our favorite cheese memories.

And that's probably impossible for you to answer, so I'm

gonna ask a different question.

And what would be your dream charcuterie board?

Oh, well, so you've got a whole spread in front of you so you, you don't

have to narrow it down to one cheese, but, you know, a, a good selection.

Well, first off, I'm gonna say that charcuterie.

Calling.

It just, that means all meat.

Okay.

Well, I learned something new.

Yeah.

So what is it when it has cheese?

Yeah, that is a, a cheese and charcuterie board.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

Give us your your dream cheese board then forget the meat altogether because I mean,

I, I don't care as much about that today.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, fair enough.

But I like, I like a blend of all of it.

Alright.

But yeah, I think social media has been such a huge boon for the cheese world.

But yes, the idea of calling everything that's on a board charcuterie is

not, a lot of people are gonna get disappointed when they go to a

restaurant and they order a charcuterie board and they just get a plate

full of different types of ham.

So, you know, that's gonna be,

so sometimes you get fancy pickles too.

Or mustard.

Yeah.

Or mustard.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I just would be remiss to not bring that up because it has

been quite the topic of conversation within the cheese world that not

everything is a charcuterie board.

A cheese board, charcuterie, cheese and meat board, all the things.

And really it boils down to we want the customers to know what they're

ordering when they're ordering something.

So they're not disappointed when they are expecting cheeses on their

charcuterie board and there are none.

So there's that.

But when it comes to a perfect cheese board, I, I mean, I'm really passionate

about American artists and cheeses.

I think that European cheeses are wonderful and I love them, but we are

just in this really fantastic place in the cheese world and I've gotten to witness so

much of this growth over the last 20 years that I feel like we are just really making

some of the best cheeses in the world.

So it's so hard because I love so many cheeses.

But I think that if you're, when I'm looking to build something to share

with other people, I am usually looking for a soft cheese, a hard cheese.

I want a cow, a sheep, a goat.

And I personally like either butter or a really fresh cheese, like I said, ricotta,

something like that on there too, because I think it's a really good pate cleanse.

Also, I'm kind of obsessed with butter, so that's a whole other, that thing too.

You know, those soft cheeses and butter, your milk has to

be of the highest quality.

There's nothing that you can do to it to you know, age it out longer

to cover up, you know, not so great flavors in the milk, like it has to be.

The best of the best to make really good butter and really good fresh cheeses.

So I always like those.

And it's also, like I said, a nice little palate cleanse to just kind of

like little bit of milk on your tongue.

But I think just a variety of things is always a good thing.

And I think it's really just important to know your audience too.

Like if I, if it's just for me, honestly, a really good cheddar and some

crackers is happy, happy mouth for me.

Or sheet milk cheese.

I'm a big fan of sheet milk cheese, so like a, oh, so a Roddy or something along

those lines is like ideal in my world.

But I think just knowing the people you're around, are they adventurous?

Like, would they like something really stinky and strong?

Or are they more mild?

Like do they, are they scared to kind of try new things?

And like I said, cheese mongers can also help you with that sort of stuff too.

We do it all the time.

It's so funny cuz my family, they are always scared about my, my cheese plates

when I bring them As if I haven't been giving ideas to people who don't know

much or like much cheese for years.

I'm like, I didn't, I didn't like bring you the like, real

adventurous, crazy stuff.

Like, this is like very, you're not sneaking in the No, no, no.

This is entry level stuff that you're just gonna like, I promise, like there's

nothing to be scared of just because it's not something that, you know,

the name of doesn't mean it's scary.

So yeah, I think it just, it's more about like knowing my audience, knowing

who I'm catering to because I like.

Something in every category.

So like, I'm happy with most cheese.

Yeah.

So,

so Katie's been adding questions rapidly here.

It looks like she has a whole

lightning around on me for you.

I took some out.

I took some out.

So this is something new that I've put in just for you.

Janae, I put in a lightning round of questions.

Great.

Cuz not, not every question needs us to totally sidetrack for another half hour.

I think I've, I've heard that this is possible.

All right, so first question, why does some blue cheese taste like band-aids?

Oh, that's like

a, that's a thing.

That's a tasting note.

Yeah.

Is it serious?

I couldn't because a lot of people, when you tell 'em that this blue

cheese tastes like band-aid just look horrified and coming back to not

knowing the right word for what that.

Flavor is besides bandaids and I mean like the plasticy adhesive flavor,

not like festering wound flavor.

I think that's the part people get hung up on.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Not anyway.

Used band-aids.

We're talking fresh Yes.

Outta the package bandaids.

No, it is a tasting note.

I couldn't tell you.

What, what makes that flavor profile?

I am not that well versed in the cheese making realm.

But it is definitely something that so I'm on the American Cheese Society's Judging

and Competition Committee and so we.

Are often talking about sensory evaluation and sort of the, the

like main words that we kind of use surrounding certain cheeses or whatever.

And that is definitely a, a tasting note and it's not always a good thing,

but it also is not always a bad thing.

But yeah, some definitely do.

And I don't know the science behind what makes that happen, but it is a real thing.

Yeah.

So people can look at you crazy, but you can be like, no, that is, it's a thing

I think that, see I'm not doing very well on the lightning round.

A matter of scale in these flavors is such a crucial thing too.

Okay.

Absolutely.

So question two, because we're talking about gatekeeping as well, how do I tell

my husband to stop eating the good butter?

I mean, it's not like I'm buying him off-brand margarine instead, but

if I'm buying Kerrygold or Vermont Creamery or something like that, I

don't want him eating all my butter.

A terrible person.

Sorry, dear.

Well,

you know what, that's the, that's just the hard part of buying good butter.

People are going to eat it.

I always have, here I'm gonna, my secret is, is I have the good butter that I

leave on the counter that is for toast and eating on things, and then I keep cheaper

butter for baking and things like that.

So I just have the plethora of butter, but butter is meant to be eaten.

So I'm with your husband on this.

Sorry about that.

Okay, fine.

He deserves the good butter too,

I guess.

I don't know him, so I can't really say for sure, but

fine.

No, he deserves a good

butter.

I think Katie feels like he doesn't appreciate it enough.

Like is he just like, could he tell the difference between good

butter and, and the other butter?

Do you

think he's specifically, so Arlene, what you're saying is blind taste test.

And if he can tell the difference, then I can justify letting him know, I don't even

think you need to blind taste test.

Just put out some of the cheaper butter for a while and he'll start complaining of

being like, what happened to this butter?

It's not nearly as good.

Something, something gone wrong.

So yeah, men, he'll understand.

So the fact that he already chooses the good butter of the cheap butter,

because I keep both out we're those people Yeah, he's allowed to eat it.

Katie, sorry.

Fine.

Best cheese for a

burger.

There you go, Jim.

Best cheese for a burger.

Honestly, I'm really partial to American cheese.

It's a good American cheese slice because it just perfect, perfect melting.

And I mean, I, I get funky with it too.

Like, Gio on a burger I think is wonderful.

A little funk, little stink.

But if we're just going classic American Burger, it needs a classic American

slice.

Are you familiar with the concept of Juicy Loosies?

Yes.

Yes.

For our, I do love Juicy Lucy, non Midwestern listeners.

Do you wanna explain what they are?

Jana?

Oh, it's a cheese filled patty.

It's a delightful, delightful

thing.

I used to live just up the street from the restaurant that claims

to have originated them, and it's.

Actually having watched them made two very thin patties with American

cheese between them and then sealed.

So you end up with this horrible volcanic molten lava cheese

situation in the middle.

I have blistered my face more than once.

I have no regrets.

I don't know why it's so much better than just putting the

cheese on top, but it is like, yum.

I'm going to

Minneapolis next week.

It continues to retain that that molten lava because when you just put the

cheese on top, when it starts to cool off, you know, it starts to kind of

like coagulate back together again.

But when it's in between there and that air isn't touching it,

it just stays warm and gooey.

And that's just, that's the good stuff.

It's

making me hungry, just thinking about it.

All right.

Late night cheese.

Does it give you weird dreams?

Science says it does.

I don't, for me, I don't know that it really does.

I'm trying to think about it because like, when I'm at home, I don't

really eat much late night cheese.

I mean, I ha always have ice cream before bed, but that's a whole other,

you know, that's a whole other thing.

And then when I'm usually at events where I would be eating cheese late night, I'm

usually not sleeping enough to dream.

So like at conferences and things like that where, you know, you're

only gonna get like five hours of sleep guaranteed every night.

So I don't, I can't say for myself that is a thing, but I know that science has

said that it is a thing that you have weirder dreams with late night cheese.

Settle an argument for me And Arlene, then butter boards, yes or no?

I mean, I can totally see why Arlene thinks they're horrifying.

But I really love butter.

So that's, I love butter too.

That's kinda, I just don't need a whole board's worth,

I'm kind of, I'm, I'm on the, I'm on the middle.

But here's the thing is that, you know, that went viral off of one person's TikTok

and it actually was in Joshua McFadden's book, six Seasons, like many years before.

So it took a long time for the butter board to like hit virality.

And I know some people are tired of it.

I am just, the virality thing is such an interesting world to be

in right now, especially for the cheese mongers on the front lines

if you're not paying attention.

And then all of a sudden something goes super viral and next thing you know you're

completely sold out of something and you're like, wait a minute, what happened?

Like feta, when the feta.

Pasta, TikTok went viral.

Yeah, yeah.

That one.

Mm-hmm.

Like people were having a hard time just even keeping feta in stock and it came

out of nowhere for most cheese mongers.

You know, cuz we do have things that like, obviously the first day of summer or first

nice day of summer here in the Pacific Northwest, you know, summer can come not

until like August, but still first nice day of summer, you know that your fresh

mozzarella is gonna start banging like instantaneously and it happens overnight.

You're like, I was selling a case a week or something and now you're selling

a case a day, like instantaneously.

So there are things seasonally that, you know, are just gonna kind of come

up, but the way that social media works now, you just have no idea and

it just kind of comes out of nowhere.

So to prep for that is impossible.

So I feel for, I feel for cheese moners dealing with that, but I don't know.

I think that butter boards are.

Can be really beautiful.

And I think that it's, I don't know, I just don't know that we,

yeah, I just don't know that we need to eat everything on a board.

Like just eat your butter.

Like, I don't know, I like it on toast.

I like it just, you know, I radishes shirt.

That's great.

But I don't, I think it also lends to this idea that everything you eat

needs to be beautiful and most cheese people are not eating these fancy

cheese plates in any way, shape or form.

It's really just like, if you look behind the counter of almost any cheese shop,

they're gonna have some like random cheese monger snack that is really

just like half open tub of something delicious and a jam and whatever.

It's not pretty, but it's sustaining their, their energy for the day.

And you know, that's how we tend to eat.

And I think that people get really intimidated that they think that they

need to make something beautiful to eat it and post it and no, you can

just eat it and love it and enjoy it.

Yeah, just enjoy the good butter.

Exactly.

Okay, so restaurant, restaurant pupil time here.

Worst cheese injury.

Oh.

I have one in injury from cutting parm where I was using the traditional

cheese, the parm cutting knives.

And one of 'em happens to be a pointy little arrow and I still have a scar on

the palm of my hand here from where the edge of it just sliced me wide open.

Fortunately I've been really I'm not even gonna say fortunately, yes, because

it is a bit of luck, but also I have a healthy fear of most sharp things,

so I give it, it's like, you know, I'm very careful when I'm like cleaning

slicers or using knives because I do have a very healthy fear of just like

chopping a finger off or something.

And I've seen it happen when people are in a hurry or reckless.

I would never let a customer rush me into cutting something faster.

Things just take time because you're working with machinery that will

literally cut your finger off and I'm just not gonna, not gonna do that.

So that time was one of those cutting my hand with the parm knife.

W was one of those times where I was too busy yapping my mouth and

not paying quite enough attention to what I was doing and telling them

about the cheese while you were

cutting it maybe.

Yeah, I was actually talking to my boss, but you know.

Yeah, and sometimes it does get to a point where you do something so often, like

at that point I was cutting a wheel of parm, cutting into a wheel of parm, like,

you know, once every two weeks or so.

So it was, I did it all the time.

It's no big deal.

And yeah.

Yeah, it is a big deal.

Yeah.

Best gateway cheese.

Ooh.

Honestly, I think aged goat GDAs, like midnight moon or bra bond or reserve.

I think that they are surprisingly well suited to people who want to

say that they don't like goat cheese.

And then they try those and they're like, okay, maybe, maybe.

And there are gonna be some people who are just adamantly, no goat

whatsoever, always and forever.

And that's fine.

But I think that those are a good one cuz you get that kind of

like sweet caramelly note to it.

And it isn't too funky, it's just tasty and.

That's what people want.

They wanna just keep eating on something.

So I think that that's a fun gateway cheese to kind of get people

to break out of something that they aren't necessarily used to.

And I also think sheet milk cheese, because a lot of people

think that sheet milk has that same flavor profile as goats.

And some people are also anti sheet milk too because of the kind of lanolin flavor.

But I think a lot of people are often surprised at the nuttiness

that sheet milk cheeses have.

Arlene, did you have any lightning questions to add here?

The one thing I was thinking of, I was trying to tie in a parenting question,

what was your favorite cheese as a kid?

I mean, like I said, I grew up Tillamook and I'm, I, I can't be sure

about this, but I often say it just because I think that it's the truth.

But our government cheese in Oregon, I'm pretty sure was Tillamook.

Because I think that the government cheese program actually did work with their

regional cheesemakers to do that program, and Tillamook was the closest to us.

So, honestly, just a good slice of a sharp Tillamook cheddar with

some tomatoes is pretty perfect.

And I do have one other question as a Canadian, because I

don't believe we can buy it here, but spray cheese, is that actually cheese?

In very small amounts.

Yes.

Much like Vel Vita or whatever.

It's really interesting because I watched one of those, like how it's

made there is, I think it's on YouTube but there is a, how it's made of Vel

Vita and it's surprisingly more cheese than you think it is, but it is a lot

of oil also to, to coagulate it all together to make that consistency.

But yeah, there's some cheese in there.

Yeah.

I

don't think we can get Vel Vita here either.

So I guess I just have to cross the border to get some of the less exotic cheeses.

And I will say, I'm a, I'm a fan of Velv Vita when it comes to

queso, and I went to Austin in 2019.

I, I did a queso tour of Austin and it hit up like seven different

places to find my favorite queso.

So, you know, it's fun.

That's the kind of like, that sounds like a food.

Yeah, that's the kind of food tour I take.

Yeah, I would totally be down for that food tour too.

That sounds amazing.

All right, so Janae, we ask all of our guests, if you were going

to dominate a category at the county fair, what would it be?

And categories can be real or made up.

Oh boy.

I mean, I just taught myself how to crochet, but I don't think I would

dominate it cuz like I said, I've just taught myself how to crochet, so I'm

still very, very much learning at that.

Oh my gosh.

I'm like, this is like, one of my good friends who is also in the

cheese world and she works behind the cheese counter here, one of our dates

that we always have every year is going to the Washington State Fair.

And like, wandering around at all of the fun stuff all of the categories.

You know, I, I'm like, I want it to be something that's with cheese, but

it would just be like cheese eating.

It feels valid.

Cheese identification.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Something along those lines.

Yeah.

You could volunteer to be the cheese judge if that was a, an option.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we'll go ahead and move into our cussing and discussing segment.

If you're a regular listener, you know that you can leave your

cussing and discussing entries for us and we'll play them on the show.

So go to speakpipe.com/barnyard language and leave us a voice memo or send us

an email and we'll read it out for you.

You can check the show notes for the links for that.

Katie, what you're going to cuss and discuss this week,

so we're recording ahead because Laming and f you know, row crops

season, Annette, but it is currently the middle of February in Iowa.

And I understand why meteorology is an imprecise science like I I

do and I appreciate that they even try to tell us what's gonna happen.

But we got a storm morning yesterday, a winter storm morning at 2 25.

That ran from 2 27 yesterday afternoon till Thursday night, I think.

So Tuesday to Thursday.

And for more than 48 hours and the forecast is literally

one to 12 inches of snow.

Maybe at some point, maybe during that, in the next two days,

60 hours of time or whatever.

Maybe at some point, right.

Just stay tuned, be alert,

you know, like you guys, like, I get it, but also

that's not helpful, you know?

Yeah.

It's

not, and to me, a storm warning needs to have a little bit

more, you know, like the one inch, I mean, that's not a storm, right?

So if, yeah.

If you're going.

Going a little higher than that.

Give me, give me a storm warning.

But if you're not even sure that it's gonna happen, that Yeah,

just tell me it might snow.

Well, I one inch would be a storm warning in the

Pacific Northwest, just saying,

yes, that's right.

Yeah.

It's all, yeah, it all depends on where you live, right?

Yeah.

We've got the snowplows to deal with it.

So we're all right.

Yeah.

This, and I mean, I get the word.

Janine, what

do you have to

go ahead.

Oh sorry.

Can you come back to me?

I'm like, I'm thinking That's fine,

Arlene, if you have, you have to custom discuss.

Oh, mine is gonna be cheese based because I really, this is not a

cussing, this is just like something I appreciate, even though I live in

a small town, I appreciate the fact that our grocery stores actually

have a decent selection of cheeses.

It's very impressive.

You know, like there are some categories of food that in a small town you

really can't get a whole lot of.

But cheese is one of those things.

Probably a little bit shelf life based, you know, like they don't have to sell

it quite as fast as, as other products.

But we, in both the grocery stores in our town have a pretty good selection

of cheese, so there's no one there to tell me what to buy, but I can be

adventurous and pick out some new things.

But it is nice to, to, even in a, in a small town grocery store, to be able

to pick out something different than the, the blocks that are just in the,

the main fridge, although those are the ones that are usually on sale.

So that's what gets stocked up on for the kids.

But we can sometimes buy fancy cheeses.

I think for me the hard part is that what I'm a little bit frustrated

with in the realm of Seattle cheese scene right now is that most of our cheese

is from behind grocery store counters.

And like, I don't wanna talk bad about that, cuz some of them are

really great, but they're, you know, hit or miss like any, anything.

But last week I was going down to the studio to go take some

photos and I really wanted ette.

Like I have one of those little bosca like party clets, which

like, just take tea lights and then you can like melt your ette.

And I was like, yeah, that'll be a great photo.

And normally the store, the grocery store that I go to, It has a great cheese

counter, but it's a little bit north.

And I was heading south, so I didn't wanna go out of my way

to go to that grocery store.

But I had to stop at four different places to find Relet that wasn't, and

I mean, I understand that this comes from a very picky eye but recollect

that wasn't oxidized or moldy, like four different places that I went to

either didn't have it at all, or when I picked up the pieces, clearly had been

sitting in that plastic for a long time.

There was obvious mold spots on it, and it was just really frustrating to see that.

And I, of course, the last place I went to was the best one that

I was able to get what I needed.

But it was just frustrating to put that much time and energy in, in a city of

this size, I think is really, yeah, really difficult to, to deal with.

Now after you take pictures of your cheeses, you can eat them, right?

Do you have to like, you know, like right, like, you know, like food photography

for like a magazine or something.

You're like, often it's not actually the real food or you're having to like

put stuff on it, but are you gonna eat your cheese after you take pictures of

it?

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

Oh good.

One of my classmates who we've been sharing studio time, which is just really

nice cuz it has, you know, there's a lot of setup and breakdown that you

have to do, but having someone else there and you know, he was like, not

only do I just like you as a person to hang out with, but like, I always

get cheese at, at the end of this.

And like last week, yeah, he got some delicious, I mean it was Whitney from

Jasper Hill Farm, which won the American Cheese Society Best in show of 2022.

So literally, America's best.

Cheese right now melted over some tortilla chips and he was just

like, yeah, this is, this is good.

This is the life.

I'm like, yeah, this is what happens when you hang out with me.

You get cheese.

Yeah.

One last thing before we sign off.

I was just thinking, you have mentioned a few times about cheese conferences.

What are the best chiefs conferences to attend and how do you get in there?

Well I am actively involved with the American Chief Society and like I

said, I'm on their judging and competition committee, which we hold now judging and

competition separate from conference.

It used to be before conference happened, but now we do it in May in Minneapolis.

And we're.

Looking, we will be needing volunteers.

So if people wanna head up to Minneapolis and hang out for

a couple days, it's mid-May.

You can look at the American Cheese Society's website to find the

exact dates and we'll need help schlepping all this cheese around.

And it's just a really interesting thing to get the behind the scenes

of, cuz it's one of the biggest dairy contests in, in the country.

And then the conference happens in July and this year it will be in Des Moines.

And it is a professional conference, but enthusiasts can definitely

come, but you're going to.

I'd probably be a little bit overwhelmed with I mean, cuz our

sessions are very niche in the cheese making, cheese mongering,

retail distribution world topics.

So it's not like we are sitting around eating cheese a lot, but we are also

like digging deep into the industry and it is a professional conference.

Sure.

Yeah.

So

more, more so for the people who are already in the cheese business

or are seriously looking at or or trying to get into it also.

Yeah.

Get into it.

Yeah.

That makes

sense.

And it's not too far from you Katie.

It's

not at all.

Come and hang out in Des Moines in July.

So those are, that's the main one that I go to.

I know that there are some other ones like the Vermont Cheese making Winter

sessions coming up in this February.

And that's an online one, so there are definitely other ones.

And then the big one, which is like every cheese mongers, like bucket list

dream is the slow food, raw cheese, making a raw cheese in Bra, Italy.

I got to go in 2019 and it was, it's the biggest international

cheese festival in the world.

And it is just, it's so amazing and overwhelming and it takes up the

entire small town of bra and it's in the same place as the, can't

remember the exact name of it, but the the College of Gastronomy.

So it's all, everything is about food.

It's just wonderful.

It, you can get cheese from literally, Anywhere.

And it is, I mean, you're just walking the streets with cheese people and

people are eating cheese on a stick and it's, it's a wonderful, wonderful thing.

Yeah.

And that is coming up in September, so, yeah, fingers

crossed I get to go to that again.

But you know, there's, there's definitely, and like regional

conferences too, there's not a ton.

ACS is definitely like the one time of year where everybody from around

the country kind of convenes into one place to, to talk about the industry.

Sure.

Well, thank you so much Shanae for joining us today.

If people want to connect with you online, where should they

find you?

Instagram or Facebook at the mobile monger.

There's like under slashes between the and mobile and monger, but

if you type in the mobile monger, I'm usually the one that pops up.

Yeah, that's

right.

I will put it in the show notes too.

So thank you so much.

It was great to chat with you again.

Yeah, thanks

for, thank

you all so much.

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