Okay, Actually is a show about what’s really going on at work — and what we can do about it. New episodes come out every other Thursday and are always under 30 minutes.

A creative brief is supposed to tell a team what problem it’s solving, who it needs to reach, and what the work needs to accomplish. But somewhere along the way, it often becomes a meeting summary, a record of every stakeholder’s opinion, or a form everyone completes on autopilot before moving on to the “real” work.

In this episode, I’m joined by my dear friend and former colleague Maury Postal, a creative strategist who has spent his career on both sides of the brief. We talk about the difference between a document that describes a project and one that actually gives it direction; why a brief needs a steward; how shared language becomes essential as teams change; and why process is often what makes speed possible.

This is a conversation about creative briefs, but it’s also about how groups decide what they’re trying to do, get aligned around a direction, and create the confidence to move forward together.

00:00 First Brief Lesson

02:09 Meet Maury Postal

03:26 A Brief Is Not a Summary

05:05 Defining Success Today

07:06 The Consumer and the Decision-Maker

09:27 The Brief Is the Project

11:12 Shared Language and Bad Briefs

17:21 Creative Leadership and Confident Organizations

22:16 Wrap Up And Part Two

About Maury

Maury Postal is EVP of Creative Strategy and Innovation Services for Grayling North America. He has more than 18 years of experience across creative strategy, storytelling, and digital innovation, helping organizations turn complex ideas into work that people can understand — and that can actually accomplish something.

He has worked with global brands including American Express, Audi, Ford, Genesis, P&G, Synchrony, and Japan Airlines. His work also includes AUTONOMY, a feature documentary made with Malcolm Gladwell that premiered at SXSW.

Connect with Maury

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Find me

OkayDoak.com

[email protected]

My very first boss at my very first job was one of those people who took

2

managing awkward 22-year-olds who think

that they're geniuses but don't actually

3

know anything incredibly seriously,

, which was a great thing for me.

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Erin from Digitas, I still think so

fondly of you, , and so much of how

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I've tried to manage and onboard

people throughout my career started

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with what Erin really modeled for me.

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One of the things Erin insisted I

learn how to do was write a creative

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brief, and at first I did not

understand why she cared so much.

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I did not understand why I had

to go through so many rounds of

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review when I was so smart and so

brilliant that surely whatever I

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wrote the first time was good enough.

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Um, to me, it was a three-page

Microsoft Word document.

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You filled in some boxes, you

wrote a few things that sounded

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strategic, and then presumably

you moved on to the actual work.

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But Erin didn't see it that way.

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She saw it as really truly the first part

of the process, and the most important

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part of the process, and ultimately she

made sure I understood what every part

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of it was there to do and took every

part of it as seriously as possible.

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A creative brief is the document

that tells a team what problem it's

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solving, who it needs to reach, and

what the work needs to accomplish.

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And when it's good, it gives

everyone involved a really, a really

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clear understanding and a shared

direction before the work begins.

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And so over time, that's really,

I think, the larger lesson

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that Erin was teaching me.

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The, the brief wasn't paperwork

before the work; it's the thing

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that made the work possible.

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And that idea has stayed with me because

it applies well beyond advertising.

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Any time a group of people is trying

to make something happen, it helps to

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agree on what you're doing and why you're

doing it and how you'll know whether it

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worked I'm Karen Doak, and this is OK

Actually, a show about what's really going

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on at work and what we can do about it.

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And there is no one I would rather talk to

about the strange and powerful and wildly

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misunderstood role of the brief than my

friend and former colleague, Maury Postal.

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Maury is a brilliant creative

strategist and one of my favorite

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people I've met through work.

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He might be the favorite, except that

I met my husband through work, so he's

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automatically just starting at number two.

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We met 16 years ago while launching the

all-new Ford Explorer, and we've stayed

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close ever since, partly because we

approach things very differently, but also

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because we share a deep appreciation for

great work done well with actual purpose.

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Today, Maury is EVP of Creative Strategy

and Innovation Services for Grayling North

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America, and he helps brands translate

all their creative ambition into work

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that can actually accomplish something.

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So this conversation is about briefs, but

it's also about something much larger.

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It's about how people get aligned around a

direction and what happens when they don't

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Welcome, Maury.

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I am so glad to have you here today.

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Thank you so much for joining me

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Maury: I am so happy to be here, Karen.

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Thank you for having me

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maury, you've spent your career

on both sides of the brief, so

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why is this seemingly simple

document still such an enigma?

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Maury: Ooh, it's a good question

'cause it comes up a lot.

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I think people mistake a brief for a

summary, a summary of like what's to

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be done, a recap of a meeting, uh, an

opinion that gets documented, every

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stakeholder's feelings about something.

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But that's not really helpful

in translating what the

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needs of the client are.

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And I think the thing that's tough is

that it has to be in service of something.

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It can't just be like this precious

document that you can't really work with.

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Um, and it can't capture

everything everyone said.

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It needs to capture the decision

that has to move forward.

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That's what a brief is.

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It's an encapsulation of the job that

needs to be done, the thing , that

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success will be measured against,

and honestly, it looks different for

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every company or situation or project.

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Because when you have a standardized

format, I think the toughest thing is,

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as we know from our time at Ogilvy, , it

worked really well when something like

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advertising had a nice box to fit in.

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But most things that briefs

are used for don't end up

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producing neat, tidy deliverables

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Karen Doak: So really the difference

between that document that describes

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a project and the document that sets

the course or the direction for one?

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Maury: I think the most important

thing is to understand that success is

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relative, and you have to understand

where and when the brief fits in.

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Because I feel like , the big shakeup

that happened a few years ago was

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that, , stakeholders had a clear

remit, so they knew what to ask for.

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And if you know what to ask for, you

then expect something, you receive it,

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it maybe goes out in the world and,

and can do what it was supposed to do.

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I think there is, an interesting

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you could do a brief to organize

your thoughts on a family vacation,

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what success looks like there.

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If it's for a creative project or a

strategic project, , I firmly believe

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you have to think of it as both

milestones and then kind of an end goal.

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But everything that I've been

doing recently is so multi-step,

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you know, multifaceted.

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It's very hard to say that a

single brief can capture that.

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And I think the idea of success,

which is what a brief leads to, right?

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We have a, a problem we need to solve.

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Here's how we do it.

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This is what success looks like.

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Let's put it out in the

world to see if it succeeded.

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Um, it's always a yes, and because

even if you succeed in fulfilling the

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brief, the world that you're putting

it out into changes by the day,

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Karen Doak: Yeah

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Maury: you have to kind of pivot.

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And I think what, what's weird is

that, um, a great brief needs a

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great steward because oftentimes if

this magical document exists, too

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many people are feeding into it,

and then it kind of loses focus.

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So it doesn't really, you know,

become this thing that I feel should

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be a strategic translation of an ask

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Karen Doak: I like that.

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The strategic translation is, , I

think a good way to summarize it too.

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Something you'd mentioned to me

when we were talking about this was

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just the idea that a brief has to

manage two audiences at once, the

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consumer and also the decision-maker.

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I was wondering if you could talk a little

bit about that, maybe hopefully healthy

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tension and, and how do you ultimately

write for both of those audiences?

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Maury: Ooh, that is a, uh,

that's a very good question.

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I 'cause I think what's tough is

that Ultimately, you are writing

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a brief for the decision-maker.

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It's informed by the needs of

the consumer, the needs of the

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business, but the decision-maker

is the one that determines success.

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Because I've had a lot of things that

had a great brief, the, the deliverables

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were incredible, you put it out in the

world, and it didn't maybe work as well

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as you thought because of pick a variable.

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But the decision-maker thought it

was successful because it pushed

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their team to do better work.

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It pushed, um, you know, someone else

in that, that decision chain to think

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differently about their department.

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So success is kind of relative,

even if you, you know, seek to do

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something that fulfills one goal,

your goal is really to, and this is

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like our classic statement, right?

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Make your decision-maker, make your

boss, make your client, make your whoever

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the most important person in the room.

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And then you can look at how you get

there by filling that brief with all

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the knowledge that you have of the

audiences they're trying to reach, the

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channels you're trying to activate.

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But I feel like the approver, the one

who has to defend the work, they're the

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ones that you really are answering the

brief for, which I know is controversial

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because typically most briefs are,

you know, really driven by, you

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know, very precise audience insights.

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The thing in n-the now times is that

you either have audiences that are

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super impacted by groupthink, or you

have those that have no idea what they

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want, and they kind of like go with

whatever the flow of the algorithm is.

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So it's very weird, I think, to be

super prescriptive, overly prescriptive,

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when often it's about putting something

out in the world that answers what

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the, the decision-maker needs but

might be adaptable enough to evolve

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if it doesn't immediately do that.

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And the thing that, , I know

we've experienced many times is

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oftentimes the brief is the project.

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You might not even get to a deliverable.

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Maybe the brief helps you understand

better what the project is actually for.

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And I know like, you know, we,

we've done so much work in like the

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early days of social media that it--

the experimentation was the point.

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Karen Doak: I think that the act of

creating a really good brief and the

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conversations that it should drive can do

a lot of the legwork for making sure that

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there is buy-in and alignment on a project

that maybe there wouldn't be otherwise.

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Because when you don't have those

conversations, , then people are

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responding to creative, and they're all

sort of using what was in their own head,

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, as their own sort of filter for it,

instead of at least say, "No, we have this

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one grounding document that centralized

us and our thoughts and opinions, and

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let's measure everything against this."

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So that idea of coming together and

agreeing on the yardstick is something

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that I think can help down the line.

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Maury: The one thing that was interesting

about that is teams with a shorthand

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often don't need to have as formal

of a brief as teams that don't.

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But I, I find that often organizations

are putting people in rooms together that

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need that translation because of language

barriers, organizational barriers, things

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that you have to come together and agree

on before you can even have the discussion

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Karen Doak: Absolutely.

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That, and that point about

shorthand is also something that,

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you know, people take for granted.

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It just takes one person…

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Well, I guess it's negative to say

getting hit by a bus, but it just

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takes, takes one person being new to

the equation to have that shorthand lost

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and, and need that broader translation.

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, Would love for you just to

talk a little bit more about

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what a bad brief looks like.

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We've certainly many, um, but

where do they generally come from?

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Maury: If they start with the answer, and

I think they are used as a way to moderate

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group think instead of being specific.

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And I think , what I really mean

is like, if someone has an idea in

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their head, like always like this

thing of, you know, feel luxury.

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It's like, well, that means absolutely

nothing right now because, you

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know, is luxury like a feeling?

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Sure.

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But if you can stay in a luxury

Residence Inn and get, you know,

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something from a luxury vending machine,

then there isn't really , an idea

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of luxury that exists to all of us.

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It's relative.

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And the thing, especially in 2026,

is that a brief's internal, it

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might alienate some audiences.

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That's okay.

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That means it's, it's specific.

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So if you're told that something

can't do that, well, then that's

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gonna be pretty hard to deliver on.

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So I think a bad brief is really many

things, and If you don't have a priority,

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if you don't have something specific,

then of course you're gonna be just

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chasing around an end product and having

to justify why something didn't work.

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, But it's this idea of like

briefs can't be wrong.

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It's just they're not useful

unless they're, you know, what

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we described before, right?

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They have to be specific, they have

to be timely, and they have to answer

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to the needs of that decision maker.

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Um, otherwise, it might as well be,

you know, a list of suggestions.

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It might be, you know, a different

type of thing you're seeking to do,

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which is okay, but I think that's,

that's part of this discussion is

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like a good brief will uncover m-

that maybe the brief itself is bad.

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You were given a bad brief.

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Or you were given a bad, or

uninformed, uh, catalyst or

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statement or something to act on.

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Incomplete information, we'll call it.

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Which isn't bad, but it often is

a crutch in places that live and

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die by the brief because, again,

maybe the world has changed.

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Maybe the medium has changed.

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I mean, I, I really do think often

about, you know, when we first were

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working together, the structure that

I loved drove everything 'cause that

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structure was created around channels

that existed in one way or were emerging

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and other things that were bedrock.

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But if literally nothing is that, right?

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Like if, if everything's quicksand,

well, then you need a brief to

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even know how to move forward

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Karen Doak: Overall, Maury, do you

feel like briefs are disappearing?

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You know, I feel like we're

very move fast, break things.

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Uh, I know you already mentioned

shorthand being something that

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some teams adapt to, but are

people skipping this step entirely?

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Maury (2): it's because so many

organizations have changed, and

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they don't know where to begin.

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Because a lot of us that have been

working in this world, and I say us and

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working in this world, people who have

been communicating in many different

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ways, whether that's through advertising,

PR, media, we worked in one way we were

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told wasn't fast enough, so we abandoned

all of the things from that time.

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And I think what's tough is the

replacement is often using tools to

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help replace documents or processes.

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I know I've experienced that in every

place I've been in the last few years

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because is a new way to do things, but it

requires looking at what worked previously

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and adapting it, not abandoning it.

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think there's a lot of, um, that

process slows down deliverables.

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I would argue that you need

process in order to achieve speed.

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And not like, you know, a labyrinthine

set of things to get to an outcome,

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but literally on the challenge at hand,

agreeing on the audiences, their needs,

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their, , watch outs, and then the same

for, the channels that you're using.

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but I think a lot of it has to do

with wanting to look nimble and

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focus on the future instead of

attaching yourself to the past.

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But I would say It's yes and.

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It's all improv.

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You can't forget what

worked and how we got here

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Karen Doak: That idea that that

process slows things down is such a

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misnomer when what process does is it

creates consistency, and consistency

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means more quality over time.

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You might have no process and luck

out with something once or twice,

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but you're not gonna luck out

every time when you don't have it.

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So thank you for saying something that

touches me so deeply and personally.

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Maury (2): a lot of places I know that

we were a part of, sold their process,

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their way, their, you know, je ne

sais quoi is the thing clients bought.

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There wasn't necessarily something

attached to that that was very

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metric-friendly, business-friendly,

that was quantitative.

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It was like, you know,

"It's, it's our way."

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You still need that way.

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That's still kind of

the, the secret sauce.

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The problem is that no one stays around

any of these places long enough to

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have that institutional knowledge.

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So you're basically starting

over, and that's not a bad thing.

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Karen Doak: Obviously we've been

spending a lot of this time talking

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about creative work and strategic

work and, and marketing, 'cause

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that's how we got to know each other,

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but, , I guess I'm wondering, do

you think there are things from

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the process of creating a brief

that are more broadly applicable?

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Because I, I certainly do.

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It's a very leading question, but

I'm interested in your perspective

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Maury (2): Well, I'm gonna bring

up a phrase that I know has been

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in my life a lot, which is that

briefs are written by strategists.

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Creative people are not strategists.

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I wanna talk about that for a moment

because I think it's important

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, everyone is creative, and so I think

it's really important to think about

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The authors of a brief, the thought

partners involved in a brief creative.

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I've had so many clients that have titles

that have nothing to do with creativity

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that are incredibly creative people.

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It's the expression that's important.

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so that's why I think good leadership is

really critical to a successful brief.

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And good leadership means a leader

that knows how to empower those that

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think differently, because the thinking

differently part, which that's a

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billion years old, that statement,

but , you do march to the beat of

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your own drummer in a good way.

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You connect the dots between

things that might seem disparate.

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, That leader helps to build up your

confidence that's also what it takes

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to kind of break through is really the

ability to take risks, to, take the

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time you might need, not a huge amount

of time, but a little more time to find

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something that's really interesting.

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And, um, creating leads

to clarity that success.

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to me, like the brief is a microcosm of

a healthy organization, and a healthy

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organization has clear swim lanes,

but perhaps the functions, the titles,

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the expressions might be different.

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And I mean that to say organizations

are creatively led and very

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passionate about that, that's

hard to really, you know, qualify.

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Some might say they're a strategy

organization, they're a management

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organization, but at the end of the

day it's like, do you have the right

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people having the right roles to end

up with a product that that works, that

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does something meaningful and valuable?

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I mean, if you're talking to a person

who's just looking at the business

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repercussions of it, adding value?

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The only way you can add value is if

you're the version of yourself that can

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create value, that's what great leadership

does, is it finds how to empower people

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to inspire that value, not extract it

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Karen Doak: I love what you're saying,

and I think Well, you can tell me if

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this is a fair or accurate synthesis

as well, but I think if we're talking

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about the idea of a brief being,

, something that sort of helps orient

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you or provide strategic direction, the

confidence is what determines how big

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of a step forward you're gonna take.

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And if you're oriented in the right

direction but you're just taking,

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this is an audio medium and I'm doing

a lot of hand gestures to indicate

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small, tiny steps versus giant

leaps forward, you know, it's gonna

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be an inspired and motivated and

confident organization that's gonna

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be willing to take those bigger steps

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Maury (2): can tell a confident

organization from a mile away.

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It's like this idea that you don't have

to be a tech organization, you don't

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have to be whatever thing with a label.

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It's like you are a group of people

that loves taking risks for the

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right reasons, and, like, finds

the joy in doing that because you

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can really see that in the outputs.

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And I think that's kind of also what's

missing right now is, like, that joy is

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really hard to find, and that idea of

being curious is not necessarily rewarded.

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Um, but curious in the right ways.

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Like, curious in the ways that

are like, know, how do I…

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Yes, and how do I move forward?

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That's what is bizarre about this moment

is that there, uh, there aren't places to

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have those conversations on the internet.

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Like, this is a good conversation,

but there's not place--

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Karen Doak: This is a great conversation

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Maury (2): to run into those things, and

I think-- I mean, this is how you and

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I talk anyway when we're just talking.

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Like, we've always done that.

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And it's fair to say, too, a lot

of this started with our office

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phone you were one extension away

and I could just pick up the phone.

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And I would almost say part of why

we're all in this predicament now

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is, like, technology's amazing.

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I love it.

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Where does it fit into our lives?

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Karen Doak: Yeah, it's experience.

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And tangible and everything else.

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Well, Maury, thank you so

much for your time today.

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I love this conversation, and

I will make sure that listeners

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can, uh, follow you online.

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We'll link to your Instagram where

they will be able to find other ways

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to reach you and also get exposed

to your incredible photography

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because, , you are creative and

strategic, and I love that about you.

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Maury (2): Thank you for having me on

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Karen Doak: The thing I keep coming

back to is Maury's description of

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a brief as a strategic translation.

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It isn't a record of everything everyone

said, and it isn't a form that you

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complete before the, real work begins.

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It is the place where a group

decides what it is actually trying

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to do, and that applies well

beyond advertising and marketing.

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Before your next project gets moving,

ask, have we agreed on what decision

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this work needs to support, what success

looks like, and who is responsible

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for protecting that direction?

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Maury and I had much more to say,

as we always do, especially about

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AI, speed, and what happens when

tools begin replacing thoughts.

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So he's gonna be back for

part two in two weeks.

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I'm Karen Doak, and this is OK Actually,

a show about what's really going on

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at work and what we can do about it.

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Thank you.