In this Episode we are talking to the lovely Nikki Giant.

The fabulous Nikki talks to us about how she is on a mission to reignite the spark in women.

Nikki Giant is an author, social entrepreneur and the founder of The Spark Movement, an organisation that aims to support the next generation to reach their potential.

Nikki hosts the Spark Sessions for Changemakers events, held on a bi-monthly basis to bring together people who want to make a difference in the world, inspiring a community of changemakers to put their purpose and passions into action.

She is the founder of The Girl Lab, a consultancy agency aimed at supporting girl-focused and gender equality nonprofits, and she is a member of the Advisory Panel for the Children's Commissioner for Wales.

Previously she was Head of Girls' Rights for global children's charity Plan International UK.

You can find Nikki at the following places:

Instagram: Nikki Giant (Watson) (@nikkigiant) • Instagram photos and videos

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LightaSpark/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkigiant/

You can keep up to date with the host Helen here:

https://linktr.ee/Helencorsicadmore

Liked this episode? Remember to subscribe and leave a review! Or if you want to be a guest then contact me at hello@helencorsicadmore.com

Thank you,

Hels x

Hello and welcome to this

episode of Fabulous and Female.

2

Today I am delighted to welcome the

very, very smiley, Nikki Giants.

3

Uh, welcome Nikki to Fabulous and Female.

4

Thank you.

5

Thanks so much.

6

Nikki is an author, a social entrepreneur,

and the founder of the Spark movement,

7

an organization that aims to support the

next generation to reach their potential.

8

Nikki hosts the Spark Sessions

for Changemakers events.

9

These are held on a bi monthly basis

to bring together people who really

10

want to make a difference to the world,

inspiring a community of changemakers.

11

to put their purpose

and passion into action.

12

She is also the founder of the Girl

Lab, a consultancy agency aimed at

13

supporting girl focused and gender

equality non profits, and she is the

14

member of, uh, the advisory panel for

the Children's Commissioner for Wales.

15

Previously, she was the Head of

Girls Rights for Global Children's

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Charity Plan International UK.

17

Amazing.

18

Thank you, Nikki, for joining me today.

19

Um, and also, Nikki is a fellow

Welshie, so I do just like to big up the

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Welsh, uh, people I have on the show.

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Very important.

22

It is very important, yes.

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Um, so Nicky, that was a very structured,

you know, professional, uh, intro to you.

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Um, I'd love to know just a

little bit more about Nicky Giants

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on a personal level as well.

26

So over to you.

27

Great.

28

I mean, just hearing that

makes me feel a bit tired.

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No wonder I feel so exhausted.

30

It feels like a lot.

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Um, so yeah, thank you

so much for having me.

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It's absolutely an honor to be here.

33

Um, so I guess on a personal

level, I live in South Wales, same

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as you, um, and a little town by

the sea, just outside of Cardiff.

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Um, I'm born and bred in Wales,

but I've lived in a few different

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places, including, um, stint in

America and in London as well, when

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I was working for Plan International.

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Um, but really glad to be back in Wales.

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There's definitely a

certain energy in Wales.

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And I feel like people, particularly

people in business and It's

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social enterprise, really want

to support each other, which I

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think is really important to me.

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Definitely.

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Definitely.

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Amazing.

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So that's still Nikki,

the, the business person.

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I love to talk to my guests about Nikki,

the, the, the non business person.

48

So I'm actually going

to change this up a bit.

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I'm going to do a bit

of quick fire question.

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I've done this before.

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Why not?

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It's my podcast, right?

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So, right.

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So I'm going to do a quick fire question.

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So I'm going to do a quick fire question.

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Why not?

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So I'm going to do a quick fire question.

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It's my podcast, right?

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Salt and vinegar or cheese and onion?

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Definitely salt and vinegar.

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That's not even a question.

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Yes.

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Coffee or tea?

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Coffee all day.

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All day.

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Black strong.

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Keep it coming.

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Ooh, black strong.

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Okay.

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Dark or milk?

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Definitely dark.

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Yes, I knew I liked you.

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I knew I liked you.

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Okay, right.

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Let's do this one.

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Um, roses or tulips?

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I'm more of a tulip kind of girl.

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Eh, I'll take, but I'll take whatever.

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Anything I can get.

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Just showing Nikki for

those who aren't listening.

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Just got a bunch of tulips on my desk.

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Um, okay, and sunshine or snow?

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Definitely sunshine.

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I love the spring, summer.

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I hate the winter.

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And this rain is driving me nuts.

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Driving me insane.

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I need a holiday somewhere.

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Oh my goodness.

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I was just talking to somebody

before I came on about a friend

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of mine is, um, who's got twins,

who is on holiday at the moment.

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And I saw a lovely picture and she just

looked like she was in the Caribbean.

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And I used to look out the window

and went, it's still raining here.

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It's still raining here.

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It's the third month straight.

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It is.

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Right.

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There we go.

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So a little bit more about get to

know you, which is what I love.

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Right.

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Let's go back to Um, the spark movements.

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So, let's chat a little bit about this.

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We got introduced by, um, a mutual

connection, very randomly actually.

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The lovely, uh, lovely Dan sent me a

message saying, you need to talk to Nikki.

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Um, because I told her about you

and your podcast and all of that.

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Anyway, we had a bit of a chat and

I was like, yeah, actually, Nikki

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is right on my radar for somebody

that I want to come on here.

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So yeah, talk to me

about the Spark Movement.

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What, what is it exactly?

110

So at the moment, I guess I

would call it my passion project.

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And I'm really trying to keep it like

that because sometimes when you put all

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your attention on something, it Becomes a

big focus and you feel like you've got to

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monetize it and make it your whole life.

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And so I'm in that funny space right

now where this is definitely my passion,

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but it's actually gaining momentum.

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Um, so it's, it's a funny space

to be in, but really exciting.

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And the whole idea of the spark came

about because I've, I've worked with

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children, young people for my, my whole

career since I was about 20, 21, probably.

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Yeah.

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Um.

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And when COVID hit, like I had some space

to actually reflect for the first time in

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a long time, which is, you know, useful.

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Um, and I started to think about what I

felt that children needed, particularly

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with the pandemic and the impact of that.

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But even before that, you know, I'd

spent so much of my time working

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in schools and seeing what's

happening to our young people.

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And it is, it's really worrying.

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Um, and I had this sort of

sense that I wanted to create

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something that was a bit of.

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Um, yeah, a bit of a movement

of coming together of people

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to support the next generation.

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And that, that's what

the spark is all about.

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So for me, it's about connecting

children and young people

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to that spark within them.

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So what is the thing that,

you know, lights them up?

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And in my experience of working with

children in schools, there was a

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definite sort of moment where I would

see almost that light go out in a lot

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of kids eyes, particularly that kind of.

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I was going to say, is there a

particular age that you saw that more?

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Okay.

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And I'm not, you know, it's

not every single child.

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It's, it's dependent on their

circumstances, of course, but you know,

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COVID exacerbated all of that as well.

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And so for me, it's like, how can we

connect kids to who they really are?

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But by doing that, we as adults.

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need to connect to who we really are.

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Yeah.

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So this idea of bringing together people

who are changemakers, who want to make a

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difference in the world, whether that's

about kids or not, for me it's about

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that legacy for the next generation.

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Whatever it is people are doing.

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Yeah.

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So that's where the idea for the

changemaker events came and the

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mutual connections that we've Um,

just bringing people together to

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say, we know things are not working.

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What can we do differently

to help the next generation?

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That's what it is in a nutshell.

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I absolutely love that.

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And we spoke about it before

and I was so interested to hear.

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Obviously I've got young girls, they're

about to turn four, um, got twins.

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And, you know, it's, it

does make me think that.

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What are we doing or what can

we do to really support, like

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you said, the next generation?

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And I think I've got a niece who is going

to be 10 soon and When I think about the

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bits that she missed out in in COVID as

well, you know, what impact does that

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really have on children in that space?

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And I'd love to know, because I haven't

been to a session yet, I'm hoping to

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come to the next one, what sort of

things are coming out for other people?

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I think it's a real mixture.

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I mean, it tends to attract, these

events attract a certain type of

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person, which is really interesting.

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It's by accident.

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And they are people who are generally

sort of positive, really motivated.

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They're not wanting to talk about loads

and loads of problems, but they're also

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really honest and open about the fact that

they've had experiences in their life.

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That have been difficult for them.

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Some people talk about the

traumas that they've been through.

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But how they're using

that as kind of fuel.

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And obviously that depends on the person.

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It's not always possible.

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And that does take time.

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But there's a real sense of people

using difficult experiences that

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they've had to help others in some way.

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Yeah.

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And so I think that's the main thing

that's sort of Coming out of this actually

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is it doesn't really matter what people

are focused on whether it's mental

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health or homelessness or the climate

or what have you What it is behind that

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I guess is the the kind of energy to

make a difference to help others To be

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that positive force in the world to be

authentic and to lead with integrity

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as well That's what I'm seeing a lot.

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So these events are not the

sort of You know, here's my

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business card, business network.

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Oh God, I couldn't

think of anything worse.

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Me too.

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Who enjoys those now?

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I guess somebody does, I

don't know, it's not me.

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And I never have, and I used

to attend a lot of things

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like that, sort of pre Covid.

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Yeah.

200

And felt really uncomfortable, actually.

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I felt like that wasn't a space

for me, I wasn't valued, I

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didn't have anything to offer.

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Yeah.

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Nobody really wanted my business card.

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I didn't want to give it to anyone, you

know, it would just be really awkward.

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Yeah.

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So this is kind of like the antithesis

to that and, and just creating a space

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where people can make connections,

make connections, community.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I love that because if, if somebody,

or, you know, the people that come

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to the events are comfortable in

talking about, you know, previous

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traumas or things that have.

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to help them, then that's great.

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But if they're not, they can

just be there to listen as well.

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And to take things in and, you

know, and do things in their own

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way, do things in the background.

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Um, they don't have to be, I guess,

people that are going to come and

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shout out about what's helped them.

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No, that's a really good point.

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And, and, and there has to

be something for everybody.

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I was thinking actually this week that

it's a perfect balance for people who are

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really introverted and really extroverted.

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And I'm probably somewhere in the middle.

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Yeah.

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Because I think you can sit at the back,

you can listen to these amazing speakers,

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you can be inspired, you can have a

chat to the person next to you if you

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feel comfortable to, you don't have to.

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Or you can jump up, take to the floor,

talk about what you're doing, you

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know, network the heck out of it.

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There's space for all of that.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And I love that because I'm, I'm,

I always say I'm an introvert, but

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actually I think I'm, I'm, I'm kind

of in the middle because my, my

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listeners will know and I'm sure Nikki

will get to know this as, as, uh, our

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relationship blossoms, I'm going to say.

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But it's, if I am passionate about

something, oh my goodness, like,

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people will say, shut up pal, you

know, stop talking, but otherwise

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you'll find me at the back, like you

said, I'll be the one that just sits

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next to someone and just listens.

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But if I'm really passionate about

something and, and when we, um,

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first met, I think I mentioned to

you about my fertility journey and

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how, like, in education, in schools.

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There just wasn't anything, you

know, I didn't realize that body

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clocks tick as you get older and

you know, all the things that can

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happen to a, to a woman does happen.

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And now I'm fully menopausal

at 42, like all of these things

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that God, we go through so much.

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Never ending.

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Is it?

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And I haven't brought you on

to talk about that, but yeah, I

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think it's the education isn't it?

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That, that, that's

needed around and, and I.

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And I just love it.

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And I think it's a, it's a great space

for people to come in and see, you know,

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where can we be that change and why are

we waiting for other people to do that?

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Right, because I guess, you know, looking

at the state of the world, and I don't

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want to be negative, but it does feel like

things are a little bit Not great, is it?

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Come on.

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You can be as positive as we

want, but there's a lot going on.

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There's a lot going on.

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Yeah, we need to be realistic as well.

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But I think, I think you're right.

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I think we've all become a bit

disillusioned with that waiting

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for somebody in a position of power

and influence to make the change.

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And actually we're seeing more and more

that, you know, a lot of our leaders

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are really self serving and they don't

have You know, the, the best interests

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at heart of, of the general people.

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And so I think more and more people

feel that actually, you know, what

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am I going to do, how can I respond?

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And it can be in really small ways and I

think that's as well, I think that's an

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important point to mention that, you know,

we, we have these amazing changemakers

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who come and present at these events

and some of them been working in that

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space for years, which is fantastic.

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But it's also about, you know, just being

That on an everyday basis, like smiling at

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people in the street or saying hello or,

you know, in a really small way, right?

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But what a difference that makes.

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Absolutely, and that's the thing,

like I've got a dog and whenever

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I go out with him on a walk, if

I see somebody, I'm probably that

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annoying person that's like, Morning!

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Just because people just look down and

they're just looking down and rather

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looking up and looking around and

I just think well that even if that

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person doesn't need that hello or that

smile right now they might think about

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that later on and think oh well that

lady was nice for that dog you know

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she gave me a hello or a smile they

might tell somebody that's what that

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person did so yes the small things

isn't it um What are the small things

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do you think we could do as, as change

makers to, to make things bigger?

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I guess there's lots of

things that we can do.

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And I suppose it depends on what

your passion is and where your area

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of focus is, but I suppose it's,

it's, it is sounds a bit cliche,

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but it is about being that change.

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So, you know, for me, I've done a

lot of work with girls and young

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women over the years, a lot of work

on gender and gender stereotypes.

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So for me, I have to be really clear

about the language that I use when I refer

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to kind of the girls that I work with

or not kind of accidentally repeating

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those stereotypes of, you know, just

thinking about those kinds of things.

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But it could be about,

yeah, spreading compliments.

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It could be a bit about the way that I

speak about myself in company with others.

300

Because actually that sets

a tone, particularly if you

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have children in your life.

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I think that is so important, isn't it?

303

Um, and, and I think as well, and this

happens a lot in Wales, particularly,

304

which is so lovely, but just being that

support for other business owners or

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social entrepreneurs or people who are

trying to do something good in the world.

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So like, Even just sharing something

on social media or telling somebody

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about something that someone's

doing, like that has a huge impact.

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Huge impact, doesn't it?

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Huge impact.

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And I love that.

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Yesterday was Valentine's Day.

312

And for those who celebrate,

you know, happy Valentine's Day.

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And for those that don't,

that's fine as well.

314

And I was like, you know what?

315

I wanted to put a post up, um, just to

say to all the people that I connect with.

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Um, just to say how amazing I think

you are and I started tagging and I

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thought I can't tackle these people.

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It's not, it's not going to let me.

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So I thought, I thought there's so

many people that I could, you know,

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tag their businesses in, tag them,

um, you know, their, their personal

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profiles and just thinking how amazing

that the small things they're doing.

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And I just thought I can't, I'll

be here all day and I don't even

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know what the limit is of how many

people you can tag, so I just did

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a generic, um, I love you all.

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Blanket love, that's fine.

326

I love what you're doing.

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Um, yeah, it's, it's, uh,

it's so, it's so interesting.

328

Um, so that's obviously

your passion project.

329

Yeah.

330

Um, and it's, it's, let's talk about

that a little bit, if you don't

331

mind, because lots of people have

passion projects and, you know.

332

Think oh, can I monetize it or do I

really want to monetize because you

333

can lose the love can't you start

to like over overwork it, I guess.

334

Yeah.

335

Are you in that place where you,

where you really want to keep it?

336

It's such a tricky balance.

337

I don't know.

338

I definitely don't feel like I'm doing

it that successfully right now because I

339

go through these phases where I'm super

excited about it and I love it and I can't

340

wait to sort of write that blog post or

share something or organize these events.

341

And then it's like, Oh gosh, I've spent

a lot of time this month doing this and

342

I haven't earned a penny from it because

it's not, you know, right now my, my job.

343

Um, and then that becomes

a bit demoralizing and then

344

the hate relationship begins.

345

Yeah, yeah.

346

So I don't know if I've

got an answer to that.

347

I guess.

348

I suppose for me, it's about striking

that balance between knowing that the

349

bills are being paid elsewhere so I can

carve off some time but making it my

350

sort of joy time, like I'm just going

to enjoy this, it doesn't matter if,

351

you know, dozens of people like the

post on Facebook or, you know, whatever

352

it might be, but keeping that in mind

because As soon as I start to kind of

353

tip into why aren't people retweeting

this or yeah, I need to know like, Oh

354

gosh, that just sucks the joy out of it.

355

So I think, you know, particularly

when something's in its infancy, if

356

you can strike the balance with having,

you know, income coming in elsewhere.

357

So it doesn't have to be about the money.

358

Yeah.

359

Also, I guess at the same time.

360

It's no bad thing to be earning money from

something you're passionate about, and

361

that's where I hope to get to at the end.

362

Yeah.

363

Because I think we have this

funny dynamic, particularly in

364

this country, about, you know,

your work and your earning is the

365

thing you need to slog away at.

366

Yeah, and the things that

you love are separate.

367

Which makes no sense.

368

It's not, is it?

369

I love that.

370

Yeah, thank you for being so honest on

that because like, you're right there.

371

It's, it's one of those things

that, you know, we do all this

372

amazing work, um, for no return.

373

I say no return, um, from a joy return.

374

Yes, but from a financial return.

375

And I think a lot of people struggle

with that because they think that because

376

they're doing something It's taken a lot

of their energy, a lot of their time.

377

They need to be, um,

remunerated from it, actually.

378

You don't, if it's, if it's a real joy.

379

And who's to say, if it's online,

you won't, but right now it's, you're

380

going to keep it as your passion

project and see where it goes.

381

Yeah.

382

That's the idea.

383

Okay.

384

We'll see.

385

We'll see.

386

We'll see.

387

Come back in a year or so.

388

Yeah, I'll be a millionaire.

389

And there's nothing wrong

with that though, is there?

390

There's nothing wrong with earning money.

391

From your energy and

time spent on something.

392

Yeah, for sure.

393

Just to caveat that . Okay.

394

Let's talk about, um, the girl lab.

395

Mm.

396

Yeah.

397

So this is where, this is where

the money comes from, right?

398

Well, some of it, yeah.

399

But again, you know, it's,

it's, it's my own business.

400

So it's me driving the kind of

marketing and, and making the

401

connections to bring in the work.

402

So.

403

Yeah, it's, it's also striking that,

that balance there as well sometimes.

404

But, um, yeah, the Girl Lab is

about supporting organizations

405

that are girl focused.

406

And when I started my work with girls

and young women, um, so I used to run

407

a social enterprise that was based

in South Wales, doing lots of work

408

with schools and the work with girls

just happened quite organically,

409

um, felt there was a need there.

410

And so I used to do a lot of direct

work, particularly with teenage girls.

411

Okay.

412

And now it's about kind of

moving up a stage really.

413

So how can I support organizations

that are girl focused?

414

And when I was doing that work,

there were very few, like it

415

was, it just wasn't a thing.

416

Yeah.

417

Um, people didn't really talk

about sort of gender equality in

418

terms of girls and young women.

419

No.

420

Um, even, even talking

about gender equality.

421

In itself, not a huge focus on that.

422

When did you start that, Nikki?

423

When did you start the Girl Lab?

424

So, the Girl Lab was founded in 2020.

425

So I quit my job mid pandemic,

which turns out, smart move.

426

Thought it was all done and over with

and, uh, didn't strike out on my own.

427

Actually, I've been very

lucky it's worked out.

428

So it was October 2020, um,

that I sort of launched it.

429

It takes many years though, doesn't it?

430

To kind of build some momentum.

431

Yeah.

432

Um, so yeah, so the focus is about

helping organizations that, that are

433

girl focused with strategy or training

or just various consultancy projects.

434

Yeah.

435

Uh, something that you just mentioned

about it takes time to, to build.

436

Um, what is it that you found

Challenging, where there's

437

opportunities to build in that space.

438

What are we now, two, well, three

years since you've launched that?

439

Yeah, probably a bit more.

440

Um, I guess.

441

Being honest now.

442

Yeah.

443

Let's be candid.

444

Oh gosh.

445

I suppose it's about connecting

with the people who care about

446

the things that you care about.

447

And it's.

448

It's hard because on the one hand you

think, well, surely everyone gets this,

449

surely everybody wants, you know, Yeah.

450

girls to have rights and, you know,

to live in a gender equal society

451

and it turns out not everybody does.

452

Not everybody does, no.

453

But even there's a spectrum

there, isn't there?

454

Because some people will totally

get with that and resonate with it

455

on a personal level, but it's not

relevant in a professional sense.

456

Yeah.

457

And I think that was the difficult

thing coming out of COVID as well as

458

obviously, you know, all children,

young people need the support.

459

And I think for a lot of

schools or organizations.

460

Working just with girls or putting

that focus on girls is challenging.

461

Yeah, yeah.

462

Um, and actually we're seeing a bigger

rise now in the need for support

463

for boys and young men, which is a

whole sort of separate issue, but.

464

Okay.

465

Yeah.

466

What are the, what are the sort of

main challenges that are coming out?

467

Can you, can you share any of those?

468

In terms of for girls?

469

Yeah.

470

Oh my gosh, there's so much.

471

I think still sort of the stereotypes

that probably, you know, our grandmothers

472

face and our mothers and we face,

they're very much alive and kicking,

473

like nothing much has moved on in

terms of the kind of perceptions about

474

gender roles, really, even though it

might look differently on the surface.

475

Because you think that everything's

portrayed on The media, what we see

476

that it is moving on, but I guess

you're living in that day to day and

477

you're not seeing much change at all.

478

I mean, if you look at social

media, for example, and that's the

479

world that young people inhabit,

and it'll look really differently

480

to my Instagram or what have you.

481

You know, the, the, the perception of.

482

What it should mean to be female and to

look female and to act a certain way.

483

Like it's very limited, really.

484

Um, you know, we've got huge

body image pressures on, on

485

young people, all young people,

particularly girls and young women.

486

Um, mental health issues.

487

are way worse for girls in many respects.

488

However, that can be to do with

under reporting from boys as well.

489

Yeah, sure.

490

Um, we're seeing a huge amount of kind

of violence between girls and from girls.

491

So that kind of aggressive, um, I guess,

you know, the kind of outpouring of

492

girls feelings actually is now coming

across in a really aggressive way, um,

493

which we didn't see as much of pre COVID.

494

It's not at a certain age

as well, Nikki, is it?

495

I think, you know, a lot of this for me,

I think a lot of it ramps up between, you

496

know, the jump from primary to secondary.

497

Yeah.

498

And, you know, kids go from being in

that really safe, nurturing environment

499

where they have a relationship

with teacher to this space where

500

they're unknown, they're not seen.

501

Yeah.

502

Yeah.

503

Oh God, it's really worrying me.

504

I just put my hands on my face and gone,

oh my goodness, I've got all this to come.

505

Oh gosh.

506

And there's lots of positives too.

507

You know, hopefully by then, Nikki,

you'd have changed the world.

508

You'll be running for Prime

Minister and I'm going to be

509

listening to you or something.

510

No pressure.

511

Oh my gosh, no pressure.

512

I wouldn't, I wouldn't

touch that role with a bus.

513

It's for my children, yeah.

514

Um, yeah, there's, there's, oh gosh,

it's still, still the, the whole

515

stigma of so much that unfortunately

we, we know about and funny enough,

516

I was just editing another podcast

before this, um, lovely Jo came on, um,

517

she'll be going out in the next couple

of weeks, but her podcast is about.

518

body image and body confidence

and how the stigma around shaming

519

and bodies is, has an impact.

520

Um, so it's all relative, you know,

and Jo is, I think she's a bit

521

older than me, I think she's in

her 40s and it still goes on now.

522

Massively.

523

Oh my goodness, you know, what can

we do to be these change makers?

524

What have we got to do?

525

Do you think, um, it's a lot

more Um, what's the right word?

526

I don't know.

527

Do you think social media, do you

think the way the world is now sort

528

of promotes a lot of this, a lot more?

529

In an answer, yes, because

it's just so immediate.

530

It's so in our kids faces.

531

It's constant, you know, and when, when

we were young, we could go home and get

532

away from whatever was happening, you

know, and you wouldn't have much exposure

533

to the outside world, which, you know,

that, that's, that's a negative and a

534

positive isn't it, because social media

also does loads of positive things.

535

But I think it, it just, the volume of it,

and even though, you know, our kids know

536

that these images, for example, are air,

um, airbrushed and filtered and altered,

537

like we know when we look at a photo.

538

Yeah.

539

But actually, you still feel the way that

you feel when you look at it, even though

540

you might know that it's not accurate.

541

Yeah, you're right there.

542

And I think the word then has

just really stuck with me.

543

It's the constant.

544

It's constant.

545

You, you know, you can choose to get

away from it, but actually the reality is

546

it's just there all the time, isn't it?

547

There's no getting away from it, and it

took me back then when you said about,

548

you know, when we were younger, we'd

just, um, you know, go home and get

549

away from the world, and yeah, you said

there's negatives, but God, I remember

550

just coming in from school, you know.

551

I would sit on the TV, watch Neighbours,

you know, watch Home and Away.

552

Blue Peter.

553

Yeah, you know.

554

And before that was, um, Fun House.

555

Like, that was one of my favourite

things, always wanted to go on Fun House.

556

You know, now these days, people just go

home and go straight on their mobiles.

557

And, you know, I'm not saying it's wrong.

558

I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

559

Just the difference.

560

But, but interestingly, you know, it

was still going on when we were younger.

561

Yeah, it's just now portrayed.

562

I think the word constant.

563

Yeah, there's so much more there.

564

And also, you know, this tech has

been, well, when it hasn't been

565

designed for kids, it never was.

566

But also it's been, it's

designed to be addictive, right?

567

That's why you get the endless scrolling.

568

You know, it used to be that

when you would scroll through.

569

Say Facebook, it would tell

you, you're all caught up now.

570

You've seen everything.

571

And now, do you remember that?

572

Right.

573

I haven't been on Facebook for

about a long time, but yeah.

574

But you know, that idea

of you've seen what's new.

575

Whereas now, you know, somebody

developed that algorithm where it

576

just keeps giving you more and more.

577

And so that's really,

that's just stuck with me.

578

Yeah.

579

It's like you've caught up.

580

Okay, great.

581

I'll put the phone down.

582

There's nothing else to see.

583

Nothing else to see here.

584

Wow.

585

Okay.

586

Gee whiz, isn't it?

587

And it's, it's, like you said,

though, it's not a bad thing.

588

And I think it can be amazing for

businesses, for people, for, you

589

know, social, you know, but actually

there's, there's still so much to do.

590

Oh my goodness.

591

I could feel like I could talk

to you for, Weeks on this.

592

Oh my goodness.

593

Right.

594

So let's talk a bit about, um,

how you look after you, Nikki.

595

So this is what I talk about with my,

my guests, because you've got this

596

passion project, The Spark, you've

got The Girl Lab, you've got loads

597

of other things going on as well.

598

How do you look after you in all of this?

599

I mean, I, gosh, I, I have to be honest.

600

I, I do struggle with this because

I work for myself, obviously.

601

I work from home.

602

Yeah.

603

It's, it's raining a lot.

604

And we don't like the rain.

605

We don't like the rain.

606

So it's, it is very easy to just.

607

There's always something on that to

do list, isn't there, and just like,

608

you know, before you know it, the room

is dark, you've missed your window of

609

actually going outside that this day.

610

And I guess because now I don't, you know,

I used to work for an organization where

611

I had colleagues, you go to the office

every day and I don't have that anymore.

612

So I have to be quite strict with myself

to say, switch off now, go for a walk.

613

You know, do something else or scheduling.

614

coffee meetings with people.

615

Yeah.

616

And, and actually, you know, it's,

it's finding people who are willing

617

to do that because everybody's so busy

that they'll just say, Oh, for sure.

618

Like we'll just have a zoom meeting.

619

It's like, please meet me in real life.

620

Yeah.

621

I'm really surprised you just said

that because I think most people,

622

especially self employed people

are like, yeah, yeah, that's great.

623

Let's go.

624

Let's go.

625

Let's go have a coffee.

626

People who are self employed

maybe are more willing.

627

You're asking the wrong people.

628

Yeah, yeah.

629

I don't think I am.

630

Don't give it an option to say, let's

have a Zoom, you know, I'm going

631

to be at this place at this time.

632

Do you want to come and meet me there?

633

Yeah.

634

Funnily enough though, before, um,

I started recording this, a Lazy

635

Book Day, I just wanted to meet

you, I've listened to some of your

636

podcasts, I follow you on LinkedIn.

637

I just wanted to have a chat and

have a cup of coffee with you.

638

And I was like, all right, yeah,

well, you know, okay, why not?

639

We had a really nice chat.

640

There was no sales involved.

641

She was up in Manchester.

642

So it's not as if we could have

just popped to have a coffee.

643

And that was actually just really nice.

644

So if you can't physically

get outside, yeah, I recommend

645

just booking in a A coffee.

646

You're so right.

647

Because otherwise it's

really isolating, isn't it?

648

And you have to, like, you've got to

force yourself because nobody else

649

is going to say, you know, put the

laptop away, go and take some time out.

650

So, yeah, I find that quite

difficult, if I'm honest.

651

Do you think, like, when you were

working for an organization as well,

652

were you very strict or not strict,

but you had times you had to work in?

653

So, say you were in a nine to five job.

654

Do you stick, try and stick to that now?

655

I, I, I'm realizing that I'm my own worst

enemy because actually, I mean, that,

656

that, so that, my last sort of paid role,

and I haven't done many over the years

657

because I realize I'm a bit unemployable

because I'm used to working for myself.

658

So it's, it's quite a

different dynamic, isn't it?

659

But, um, yeah, obviously I had a nine

to five, but it would end up being

660

more like eight to late or something.

661

I think it's, it's tricky, isn't it?

662

When you're passionate about something

and you want to give your all to

663

it, then it's quite easy to do that.

664

And the people who give energy to

something are the ones that get, you

665

know, get more out of it, but also get

more put onto their plate sometimes.

666

Um, but actually, you know, that part

of the reason why I had to quit that job

667

is because I was close to just falling

into a heap because it was too much.

668

Yeah.

669

Yeah.

670

Comes too much.

671

Yeah.

672

And this is part of the

podcast name, isn't it?

673

It's avoiding that, avoiding that

burnout and it's so easy to do.

674

Yeah.

675

Um, yeah.

676

And I would just say like a top tip

for me is even though it's bloody

677

raining outside and it is miserable.

678

Just put the laptop down, go

outside, change your environment.

679

We said my meetings are at coffee.

680

So important, yeah.

681

Just, just change that

environment if you can.

682

Um, I really like working in coffee shops.

683

I know it depends on what

you're doing as well.

684

Depends on what you're working on.

685

But I actually quite like just to have

that kind of hustle and bustle around me.

686

So it feels like I'm in, I'm in there

like hustle and bustle conversations,

687

but I'm not, I'm still on my own.

688

But actually you end up having a

conversation with the person next to you

689

sometimes or a little chat with somebody.

690

It's that human contact, isn't it?

691

It is.

692

It's so important.

693

And I think, yeah, COVID

probably showed us that.

694

in a really quick way.

695

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

696

How important that was.

697

Absolutely.

698

Okay, so what direction are you heading

in, Nikki, with, with everything you do?

699

Well, it feels like a bit of a

squiggly line, to be honest, because,

700

and, and actually, Maybe I'm okay

with that because I used to think

701

it was a very sort of straight

vertical line, or I'm gonna do this.

702

Yeah.

703

Do my five year plan and then Yeah.

704

And then, you know, life does it matter?

705

Matter.

706

Yeah.

707

Yeah.

708

Um, so I'm trying to learn to get,

to get used to the ups and downs and

709

the, the kind of squiggly line of it.

710

Yeah.

711

Um, and to be led more

by my joy and what I.

712

I love to do.

713

I think that is so important, isn't it?

714

Because we only get so

long on this planet.

715

Why spend so much time

doing things we hate?

716

It's not always possible, but yeah,

where I can find the pockets of it.

717

Yeah, absolutely.

718

There's a really good

friend of mine, Amy Bateman.

719

She's been on the podcast for

series and one of her things is.

720

Um, I'm going to get it wrong now,

she's going to kill me, but it's, it's

721

something along the lines of why would

you stay in a job that you absolutely

722

hate, life is, life's too short, or

something like that, it's much better.

723

But yeah.

724

Get the gist.

725

Get the gist.

726

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

727

Okay, so, um.

728

I was going to ask you a question.

729

I've gone off.

730

Yeah, because we, we were talking about,

um, one of the reasons that our mutual

731

connection connected us was because

he was thinking about doing a podcast.

732

And, um, I said, well, yeah, I'll

tell you it's, it's brilliant.

733

And this is the bit I absolutely love

is the, the chats and, um, but I do

734

all the editing and everything myself.

735

Um, I just, it's hard.

736

It's really hard, and it's like,

this is kind of my passion project

737

as well, and I, you know, I don't,

I think I've got a little bit of

738

business from it, but nothing massive,

because I'm, it's something I love

739

doing, um, but I've really got to be

mindful of, oh my goodness, all the,

740

all the extras that come with it, um.

741

And just tell the audience where you've

been this weekend, or last weekend.

742

Oh gosh, well I booked, I booked

myself onto a course to learn how

743

to create podcasts in London, um,

so I booked it just after Christmas.

744

You know when you've got that New

Year kind of, Yeah, what can I do?

745

It's January, I need some Uh, resolution.

746

Yeah.

747

How can we going to do?

748

So I booked myself onto this

course and had a lovely day out,

749

like the lunch was excellent.

750

Um, turns out making

podcasts is quite technical.

751

It can be.

752

And there's quite a lot of work involved.

753

It can be.

754

So, you know.

755

Watch, watch this space.

756

Watch this space.

757

It's BBC, to be honest.

758

Hilarious, hilarious.

759

I did say, well, if nothing

else, you had a lovely time.

760

Nice lunch and lunch.

761

Yeah, yeah.

762

Okay, what is, couple

more questions for me.

763

What is your, um, top tip for anyone that

is thinking of starting a passion project?

764

Um, I would say my top tip,

I want to say just go for it.

765

And enjoy the process and don't put too

many expectations on it because the minute

766

you say, well, it's got to look like this

or looking at other people on social media

767

who have been doing it for 10 years and

thinking, Hey, why am I not there yet?

768

That's really weird.

769

Yeah.

770

Yeah.

771

What I should be doing, I

should be following them and no.

772

Yeah.

773

My, my main tip though, and I think.

774

I don't know if this is a bit of

a random one, but actually for me,

775

this really works is to not talk

about it to too many people too soon.

776

So I think, get excited about

something and, and the momentum is

777

building in you and you're like, Oh

my God, I'm going to do this thing.

778

And then you start telling like, you

know, your Nan or your, you know, your

779

mother's neighbor or something like that.

780

But you, you, because you haven't had

much time yet, you haven't articulated

781

it properly in your own mind, it's

still like a bit fledgling as an idea,

782

and so it doesn't come across properly

to other people, and the reaction

783

then you get is, oh I don't know about

that, oh that doesn't make sense,

784

or you couldn't make money for that.

785

And it just.

786

Takes the wind out of

your sails too quickly.

787

That's such a good tip.

788

Yeah.

789

So I think just waiting.

790

Let it build its own momentum in you.

791

Like, one of the things

I do a lot is journal.

792

And I, I, not every day, but when I can,

it's just having that like self reflection

793

time and writing down my ideas and stuff.

794

Yeah.

795

And I've noticed now I've gone back and

looked at journals from like years ago

796

now, and the idea is the same, really.

797

I keep coming back to it in the same, in

slightly different ways, the same idea.

798

Yeah.

799

And it's only now that I

feel, okay, now is the time.

800

Now is the time.

801

To share it.

802

That's my tip.

803

Brilliant tip.

804

Absolutely brilliant.

805

I love that because it's so true.

806

And if somebody doesn't really get it or

you're not fully like, formed as such yet,

807

then somebody will go, and it will just

make you think, I'm not doing it then.

808

I'm not doing it.

809

I'll hide away.

810

So, I love that.

811

Or even if it's just telling maybe, you

know, one or two people, like maybe if

812

you've got a mentor or a close friend that

you know is going to be a cheerleader.

813

Just so you, you've kind of put it

out there, because the other thing

814

is if you, if sometimes if you

don't talk about it or don't start,

815

then you might never start it.

816

Yeah, so finding the right

people, you're so right.

817

Yeah.

818

So not telling, you know, all and sundry

and making sure we choose that person.

819

But also, you know, you could

caveat it and say, look, this

820

is something that's really new.

821

Yeah.

822

I don't really need.

823

A lot of ideas at the moment or

criticism or no, I don't need that.

824

I'm just verbal diarrhea.

825

And it's like, yeah,

yeah, that's all I need.

826

I stand there just going

to get it out there.

827

I love that.

828

I'm terrible for doing that.

829

I'll tell everyone about

everything and then go, Oh, I'm

830

actually going to do this now.

831

I've got to follow through.

832

That could be good too, because

otherwise, yeah, it makes me accountable.

833

Yeah, it makes me accountable.

834

I love that.

835

Oh, um, Nikki, it's been Fantastic to

talk to you and I'm hoping, I know,

836

I know the listeners will get so much

inspiration and just thinking about that,

837

the change maker that we started the

conversation on about what can we do those

838

little changes to make a big difference.

839

Um, final question for me today is.

840

If you had to choose, what

would be your favourite cake?

841

Oh my gosh, that's, that's the most

difficult question you've asked me.

842

Should have pre warned me about that.

843

Um, I mean, I'm tempted to say like

carrot cakes, it's healthy, but no.

844

No, your face and your voice isn't, isn't

vibing that, I'm not, I'm not taking that.

845

No.

846

Do you know what I'm going to choose?

847

I'm going to choose a really

good lemon drizzle because it

848

makes me think of, um, summer.

849

Oh, and summer needs to come now, right?

850

Oh, come on summer.

851

And being in Italy and having some

limoncello or something like that, yeah.

852

Oh God, yeah, can we go?

853

Can we go?

854

Can we go now?

855

That's hilarious, I love that.

856

Amazing.

857

Right, Nick, you've

been an absolute dream.

858

It's been a pleasure.

859

If people are interested in

finding out a bit more about what

860

you do, where can we find you?

861

Where's the best place?

862

So on social media I'm Nikki Giant, um,

N I K K I, um, Giant as in tour person.

863

Turns out there's no, there's

no other Nikki Giants out

864

there, so it's quite useful.

865

Oh, that's nice, yeah.

866

I don't think so.

867

Um, and then you can check out the

Spark Movement at, um, sparkmovement.

868

com or it's at Light a

Spark on social media.

869

Amazing.

870

Thank you so, so much.

871

Thank you, Nikki.

872

Thank you.

873

It's been a pleasure.

874

Really enjoyed.

875

Aw, thank you.