In this episode, Trisha interviews Mike Newton, CQ Fellow, certified CQ Facilitator, and Director of Organisational Health and Belonging at Young Life.

Music reaches us in ways that argument and logic simply can't — but what happens when that same power is used intentionally to shift how we see each other? Could a song be the beat beneath the bridge that connects people across cultural differences? Mike has spent over 25 years building culturally intelligent communities, and when he's not doing that, he's behind the decks. This conversation explores how music works across all four dimensions of Cultural Intelligence (CQ) — from sparking motivation and curiosity, to deepening knowledge of cultures not our own, to shifting perspective in ways that stay with us for decades.

Connect with Mike Newton on LinkedIn or on Instagram at mrnewton210

🎵 Listen to the episode playlist on Spotify: The Beat Beneath The Bridge - Music for The Shift Podcast Episode 82

Join Trisha in this journey of growth and discovery throughout the year via Substack or LinkedIn.

I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.

Hi there, everyone. I'm Trisha Carter, an organizational psychologist and an explorer of cultural intelligence. I'm on a quest to discover what enables us to see things from different perspectives, especially different cultural perspectives, and why sometimes it's easier than others to experience those moments of awareness, the shifts in our thinking.

And the reason I'm so interested in the shifts is because of my work in cultural intelligence, CQ. It's what makes people more capable when they're with people who are different from themselves. It's made up of four areas: motivational, the CQ drive; cognitive, the CQ knowledge; metacognitive, the CQ strategy; and behavioral, CQ action.

In this podcast, we focus especially on the metacognitive aspect, where we think about our thinking. CQ strategy, it's where the shifts happen. So I'm wondering if you've ever had a moment when something happens and a song you haven't thought about in years comes into your mind, and suddenly you're somewhere else entirely.

Not just remembering the place or time, but really feeling it. So that happened to me while I was working on the questions for this podcast. A notification popped up on my phone that a singer-comedian from New Zealand had just died, and I know, everyone, I should have notifications silenced when I'm working on a project.

But I didn't. But immediately, just from that notification, a song that I hadn't heard or thought about for years, 'cause it was my late teens or young adult years, just popped back into my mind, and I was back there listening to the Top Twins singing Untouchable Girls. Yeah. We're not allowed to sing, but, you know, that might not be so great for me, but, you know, in my head was going around the words about Untouchable Girls.

You know, we're stroppy, we're aggressive, we're changing the world. So music does something to us that very little else can. It bypasses the part of the brain that argues or defends or categorizes. It gets in underneath all of that, and I've been thinking and having conversations with one of my mates here about what that means for shift,

the kind of perspective change that's so important for cultural intelligence. Today's guest has been aware of that for a long time. Mike Newton is a CQ Fellow, a certified CQ Facilitator, and the Director of Organizational Health and Belonging at Young Life. He's based in Indianapolis, but he goes global.

There, he spent over 25 years working across diverse cultural contexts: racial, generational, socioeconomic status, regional US, and global. He's been training staff, building communities, and developing culturally intelligent leaders. He works with them on cultural values, bias, psychological safety, and building CQ capabilities.

And when he's not doing that, he's behind the decks. Mike DJs, and we're gonna talk about it. And Mike is also a really good friend of mine that I met in CQ Fellows, and I can see that the relationship he has with music isn't separate from his CQ work. It's really a part of it So today we're talking about music as a vehicle for shift.

What happens when people can get moved out of their frame? With someone who's an expert in CQ and an expert in musical shifts. Welcome, Mike

Thanks, Trisha. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here with you. And with your intro, people can't see my background, but they could s- they, they would see hundreds of records just in the background there. I love music, and I'm looking forward to this conversation today

Yes, and all the albums behind him, I guess, it would be fun to ask him to just randomly lean back and pull one out. Over the years, obviously he has built up a serious collection, dear listeners, that just built in there behind him. And i- there is a deck right in there behind him I, I notice as I'm looking now as well.

Yeah. So we're gonna be talking about some really wonderful music today, and I do want you to be able to feel it, not just talk about it. But because of the licensing rules, regulations, we're not able to play that, and we don't want to take anything away from the creators who have made amazing music. So what we've done is created a Spotify playlist, and you'll find the link in the show notes, and you can have a listen before you dive in if you wanna stop now and go away and listen to it, or you can keep it l- open alongside us as we go.

So Mike, I'm gonna start with a question. Is... It's similar to what we normally ask, but it's a little bit different as well. Is there a culture other than the one you grew up in that you've come to know and love because of its music?

Yeah. Well, I appreciate this question. When I was thinking about it, I think I have to share a little bit of context of the culture I grew up in. So I gr- I grew up in a town called Roanoke, Virginia. It was in the mountains of the Appalachian Mountains, in the Blue Ridge Mountains, more specifically, and really a hub for bluegrass music which is a fiddle a banjo an upright bass.

If you go to a coffee shop there they're just having people in circles just join in, and you bring your whatever instrument, and you can just play. And so I grew up in the suburbs, and so that's the context. So you would think I would probably listen to bluegrass music, and I did somewhat. My parents were big on southern gospel, which is another form of music related to Christianity, but, like, they would just be there, and then my mom would be, have a p- always at her piano playing.

And so... But the culture it was with... As we go through songs here, I can still hear it KRS-One, My Philosophy coming on. And just I've really grown to appreciate hip-hop culture, which expands the globe now, but back then was more regional and about areas in the, in, in the United States and around, you know.

Like, I could learn about New York City from a certain group of artists, and Los Angeles, and those types of things. And so hip-hop culture was just a huge thing for me that I grew to appreciate and love, and still to this day love, and really got me into DJing. So that would be the one

That is brilliant. And when you said Blue Ridge Mountains, my brain went Shenandoah River from the song, back in the day, but most people will be way too young for that song

We'll still put it on the playlist. We'll still put it

Yeah, we can, and the oldies will appreciate the country. Yeah. Um, I guess as somebody outside the US, I identify with a whole lot of US places from songs too. Yeah. So it is interesting how it takes you in there. So the second question that we usually ask at the beginning is about moments of shift that people might have experienced.

So again, I'm gonna adapt it for you. Is there a song or a moment with a song that really shifted you? So when suddenly you saw things differently, you know, it was almost like your life split into before and after

Mm. There was a song, and now this is a different genre of music. This is a music called ska, which is rock with a trombone. It was horn section. And there's a group called Five Iron Frenzy. And so they wrote a song called The Old West. Can I read some of the lyrics to you? Is

Yes, please. I think we're allowed a certain amount. Yeah

Okay. So, This is, I grew up fr- in a, in a Christian context, and we I questioned how we went about sharing our faith, whether, and this song here was pretty radical for me to be listening to at the time. So this is the, this is it. It goes, "Some cowboys were ridin', ridin' on the range. The grass was overgrazed there, and they spotted like some mange.

The buffalo, they were dead there. The trees, they were through. And then they saw some Indians. Why, they would kill them too. West or bust, in God we trust. Let's rape, steal, let... And kill. Where it can almost justify anything we feel. I'm climbing up the ladder, more brownie points for me. I'll work my way to Jesus, you wait and see."

They talk about how they would convert people or shoot them.

And for me I just felt like that was anti what I read in the Bible personally, and not what about relational, which I saw Jesus was, versus this conquering if you don't believe we're gonna kill you, you know?

And so much harm even today is done in the name of religious things. And for me, I d- I remember where that was, and I also thought, hey, this is how we're- this is how we treat people in the United States. We kind of have a position of like, we're better than everybody else. I don't know if you've ever felt that before, but like, Lucy, who's one of our friends, used to say that you always have to affirm the Americans on a call whenever they share an idea.

It still sticks with me that she said that in our very first meeting. And that song was like, okay, we don't treat people well here. Who are we to say how we should treat other pe- other people treat, you know, and, and think about these things. And so I'm a little r- bit rambling here, but that song was distinct and like, for me is like, it's not about that.

Really ultimately, it's about, okay, if you're gonna share your faith, it needs to be done in a loving way in which you actually care about the person versus you're trying to conquer them, or they're something- there's something wrong with them. Does that make sense? And so this is a little bit maybe off of what you thought, but that, I was like, this is the song that just was like a huge shift in my personal life and like, man, what are we doing?

And the amount of hurt that we've caused because of that, you know? So yeah. I don't know if that an- I think that answered your question, but that was just a, for me, a

Yeah, no, it answers it

shift.

So

Makes perfect sense. And yeah, everything I know about you is the antithesis of that. And so you've nev- yeah, you've never exhibited anything i- in that way. So yeah, I can imagine how it, it might have made you stop and think and, yeah, step into, "I never wanna be that way." Yeah.

Yeah

It was a, it was a powerful, it was a time. I still, I mean, I c- as soon as I read that question, I heard that song in my head, so

And you were back in that place. Yeah

I was back in that place with like Goodwill clothes on. They, they would wear suits that people would da- like, and I was dancing in my mind, like, "Okay, we're just going in." So they were like one of those bands that just had a political end, so to speak, or like they were try- social justice end to them. This is back in 19- early '90s.

And it just, still to this day I think about it

Yeah this is the power of music and the impact that it can have on us. And I hope, dear listeners, that as you're thinking about this, that you might be reflecting on the same shifts that music has made for you. Mike, how did music become so central to your life? You've talked a little bit about your family and growing up with music.

Is, you know... Are you... Actually, I don't know. Do you have brothers and sisters? We've never talked about your family. I know your wife, Kristen, and, and I think she's amazing. But I don't know about your, your immediate family

Yeah. I have three

brothers and,

Are they all into music like you?

No, we were all into sports first and foremost, and then people messed around with music. But for me, I was the most introverted of all the three bo- three boys, and so music was my voice as well as my way of connecting to people. And so that's how it became so central to me. Before I was a DJ, I was still like, okay, if I found out Trisha liked The Pointer Sisters, I don't know, just that's random I would find...

I would try to listen into music and, and we... Let's talk about it. You know I'm saying? Or if I knew that you liked somebody, if you liked The Pointer Sisters, I would be like, "Hey, have you, have you heard this group?" Whoever it was, and try to in- I was introducing people to new music even before I was officially a DJ who introduces people to new, to new music, and this is all the way back to middle school,

Yeah. Oh,

for me.

And so, and this is middle school for me would it be like late '80s.

Yeah. Okay, so the days of mixtapes

so yes, I would, I would make... I remember my school teacher giving me, my parents didn't want me to have it, but she gave me Guns N' Roses album um, and recorder. I thought Miss Steele was the best teacher ever. And so, you know, music.

So she was trying to connect with her

Exactly. She was doing the same

It's like same strategy, and it's a, it's a... You, I, I guarantee every listener here, I, well, I can't guarantee every listener, but a lot listen to music. And so it's a easy bridge to ask people, "Hey, what are you i- what music are you into?

What, what's the song that you can't get out of, stop playing right now?" Whatever it may be, and it's just a bridge that we can use. And I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself here, but that's just always been so important to me in my life is, is that, and that's how it became such a central focus.

This is my bridge. And I'm really quiet. If you, you know, seek you fel- I could go there and sit there the whole day and not say, say anything. But I'll play music, and people will be like, "Mike, what's this?" You

Cool. Yeah,

that type of thing.

Have you ever, have you ever thought about doing a professional DJ?

Well, I, I, full-time, no. I left that to Kristen. You know, she did that full-time in her career, my wife. That's actually how we met. So she... It was her senior year of college at Virginia Tech, and it was the, when they had a, there was a big shooting at the school where a lot of people died, and they asked me to come DJ, like talk about music picking people up, which you mentioned earlier.

They asked me to come and DJ an end of the year party for this organization that she was a part of. And so we met that way, where I, I DJed. I don't exactly remember how it went. I knew that everyone was more somber. But people were having a good time. But it was still like this air of like, this had just happened, like this

31, 31 people, I believe, had got...

That died. And yeah. And then fast-forward, she started working for the same... I invited her to come. I called her after the fact and asked her, hey, do you... Do people in her organization wanna volunteer with this organization that I was working for Young, Young Life. And one thing led to another, and she ended up coming on staff.

And then we had a thing to keep kids off the streets where not street, like, just running the streets and doing different things. Like, we created a studio where kids would come and learn to DJ, as well as record music. And she-- I was the DJ doing that, and then sh- when I moved and left, she started to take that over, and then she became prolific DJ.

She was the DJ for the Indiana Pacers and the Indiana Fever, which are the professional basketball teams here. And she's done a ton of stuff, and so she did that for a career. But I do it, I get paid for the fun things that I like to do, but I, it's not, it's, I w- I couldn't do it full time. So,

It's, it's love. Yeah.

Yeah, I do it for the, I, I do it out of, I just love music, so I, I, if you're like, "Hey, Mike, just come do this," I'll just come do it and we'll, we'll have fun. So that type of thing

In your LinkedIn profile You referenced a number of genres that you, that you DJ. Hip hop, which you'd mentioned before, Christian hip hop, reggaeton. What does each of those genres carry for you culturally?

Well, I like old school hip hop, and so, you know, again, there's a community aspect to that music that I really like. It comes on and everybody's just like, "Oh, It Takes Two by Rob Base." And he just passed away too. R- and DJ Easy Rock, that song, everybody just starts dancing to that song, right? I can...

That's one of the few songs I c- know every lyric of every word, and w- if karaoke, I'm choosing that song. And so that, that, that, that style of music is just, it shaped cultures, it gave voices to people that didn't have those, the voices. It made me aware of, it makes people aware of social injustice.

I think of Public Enemy song Get To Arizona, which was another shift for me of like, they wrote this song and it was about when the governor tried to get rid, or got rid of Martin Luther King Day as a paid holiday in the state, and it was just a big, it was a big deal, and it should've been a big deal, and they were expressing that.

And so it gave voice. And so I love the, the voice as well as the nostalgia and the music there. So if you're like, "Mike, come, let's do a '90s hip hop party," I got, I'll, let's get to, I'll get to Australia as soon as we can. You know, that type of thing. Now, when it comes to Christian hip hop why that's so important to me culturally is like, I'm a, I'm a Christian and because I already appreciate hip hop, I want folks sometimes that are ra- are rapping about their faith and how to walk out their faith in life.

Not like shooting Indians but like really walking out what it means to like, "Hey, this is going on. This is the struggle." Artists like Lecrae and did that, does that really well. And just this is the struggle I'm going through, and this is how I'm walking through it. I just appreciate that music and and I'll, again, if you are like, "Let's do a Christian hip hop party," I got you.

Let's go. Now, reggaeton, I don't always know what's being said, but I love the beat and the style, and I wanna dance even though I'm kind of like a stoic person that people think is angry all the time. Man, when th- the song, those songs come on, I'm just like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. That, that, that drops, I'm like, "Let's go."

And so I could... Kristen and I joke that I was meant to live in Miami. W- the South Beach and be playing reggae. I could do that all day, all day. So those are like So it's less, it's the party, communal party style of reggaeton. I know it's a community com- they j- people are just having fun. They, life is stressful and hard.

You know what I'm saying? Like, if you put on a good reggaeton song, we're gonna all be moving our heads and moving our bodies before too long, you know? So, those are some of the reasons why I would say. I, those are the three genres. I can do anything if I had to, but those three genres I really love

Yeah. And I do know you can do anything because you did some work in the CQ Fellows gathering and yes, gathered and collected songs for everybody in a way that, that spoke to the genres they appreciated, which was lovely. So how do you use different genres then, Mike? Are they doing different kinds of work, you know, when you're DJing? It, you know, for the groups that you DJ with. Do you, you know, do you, do you intentionally use the genre in a way...

I mean, you just mentioned almost stress relief, it sounded like to me. The psychologist in me was going, "Ooh, that's a wellbeing sort of a, a practice." so, you know, are the genres doing different types of work for different situations?

Yeah. Definitely. So there's certain songs that you can put on and you can't sit still. You know, there's tons of line dances, Cha Cha Slide, Cupid Shuffle, you know. We did those, I think of DJ-ing the the boat trips at the CQ Fellow times, you know, like just doing those things.

But also knowing, okay, the sun's about to set, I'm gonna play Golden. And it's gonna be like the golden hour of like the sun setting over the Pacific Ocean, right? So like matching a song to the moment is always something that I try to do. Y- you know, if you're at a wedding, hey father-daughter dance, they want a certain song.

Sometimes they want to like, "Hey, can you suggest a song?" And, and, and then you can play different... There's different ones for different s- situations. Now, or you know, the mo- It's when you dance with your mom or whatever it may be, or your da- You know, it's not just father-daughter, it can be

Something special.

so- son, mother, right?

All the different things. And so just anything. Like, I want people moving. Like when I, when, at the trans- I don't know if you wanna transition yet, but when I think of training sessions, people have, normally have a mood about going into those you know? And they think, "Oh, this is gonna be, I'm gonna talk about CQ.

Uh,

Boring

another training part. Let's put a wet blanket on." that type of thing. But when they come on and there's, like, hip hop playing. I love this song. There's, Back to Miami, there's a song ca- by, I think his name is Isaac Mansfield, called Miami, and I could play that song 100 times in a row. So we'll put that one in the playlist as well. I didn't have that written down as a song to talk about, but that song,

every, every... Add that one in,

okay?

when people are coming in and you're trying to lift them from, "Oh, here I coming into this training. I've got other things I wanna be doing." You know, their minds are back at their desk. They don't really wanna be in the training. They come in, and that music creates a vibe that says, "Hey, it's fun.

It's welcome. You know, you're in a different space here." Yeah

Mm-hmm. And there's a saying, we have a saying in Young Life, like our founder was like, "We want people to do new things, they'll think new things." And so, the whole thought of like, hey, this is music I didn't expect or didn't think about. You know, it wasn't like I'm not normally listening to. Like, okay, I will think maybe this will just lead to me into thinking new things,

right?

Yes

Or go from a defensive posture to an open posture.

'cause sometimes in our training people think, "Oh, they're gonna tell me how bad I am," or, "I've gotta change because of this, this, this, and this," and get real defensive. Well, when you hear that song Miami, you some reggaeton or you s- it's hard to be like, be angry or be defensive. Yeah. right? Yeah.

Do you ever use music for those sort of... I don't know. Sometimes in a session you have those moments where people might share something, and it can go quite deep, but also it can go quite bleak. So especially I've had sessions where people have shared experiences of, you know, really what are mistreatment examples of prejudice and the hurt that it's caused them, and sometimes it's really hard to take a group from that and to create a little bit of healing.

And you can do that by, and, and just as a sideline, I'm sure that many of our listeners are facilitators in this area, so that's why sometimes I speak in this way. But you can do it by getting people to sort of share something encouraging or beautiful, but I'm also wondering if you can take people from that moment of sadness where things can feel a bit bleak with music.

Have you ever done that?

Mm, I have. There is certain, like, sometimes people feel alone in their suffering, you

Yes

And there's normally a song, there's... Well, but we all know we are not alone in that. You know, like, I think that's one of the tricks is like, again, well, if our faith- if I'm taking a faith perspective, like one of the things that, that we would say it the enemy wants to do is to isolate us, right?

And then just in general, it's bad in life to be isolated and to, to be think you're the only one going through something. And so there's a song, like these last couple years have been really difficult in my own life personally, and there, I'm a... Things are a lot better now. But there was a song, Hell or High Water by Bailey Zimmerman, that that song, I, you could play that song at any time to describe the situation that you're going through.

And he's just talking about how he's trying to decipher if this is hell or if this is high water and in life. And so, it's not from a faith perspective, it's just a song. But I think it's a powerful song. And you can definitely use those things, but I think I try to approach it if someone's sharing something that's like really traumatic or hurtful that's happened to them, is to sh- to, to be like, "Hey, you're not alone in this."

Like, we, we, to try to, to do something along those lines. You know what I'm saying? But in general, I don't have a set of songs set aside to play coming out of that.

'cause you just don't know. You're just

like, "Okay." You're just like,

Do you have a mus- do you have any sort of musical plan for a session? Or

Yeah, I will, well, I have songs that I wanna play when they come in. I have a s- sometimes, well, I do have a different set if I'm breaking people up in, in, if we're looking at a certain culture, I will play those music,

music from that culture,

right? So then I will also have a certain set of songs for coming out of small groups.

Like, you know, if I put breakout sessions or whatever it may be. Sometimes I take people on a journey through music through the generations. So if I know I'm working with a group of folks from, with, that represent a huge gauntlet of... Gauntlet might not be the right word. I don't know what the right word is.

A wide range of, of of ages, I will, "Okay, we're gonna start, we'll be 70 to 80s in the morning, we're gonna move to 90s." And so that we get, you know, that type of, that type of thing. And then like at the CQ thing, I, I asked everyone for their favorite song and that, or it could be their favorite song or the c- song that represents where they're from, and then we played those, tried to play those during the meals, right?

So everybody could be, like, talking, then suddenly It Takes Two from Rob Base and DJ Jazzy Jeff come on. I'm like, you

Yep, yep, yep. You're back home. Yep.

back home, that

Yeah, same. I think I had a crowded house song, didn't I? Where they came in and, yeah, I was back home. Yeah.

Amah

Have you ever got it wrong? You know, when, when you played something that shifted people in a direction that you didn't intend to

Well, straight up DJing, yes, where I'll be like, I'll play a song. Oh, this is gonna go well, and then everybody stops dancing. That has happened. It's like, it's like, oh, my bad. You know, it's like str- get something real fast, change it up real fast. So that's, that can be awkward and break your confidence whenever that happens, and I think that could probably happen the same in a, in a CQ session of like, I thought this was gonna go this way with this song when I played it.

It would elicit this feeling or this mood or this perspective, and it went totally a different direction, right? And then sometimes you just gotta say, "Hey, I missed it with that," 'cause people are much more forgiving if you admit that you played the wrong thing or did the wrong thing, you

know?

think so too. Yeah.

What's the difference between music that can change someone's mood and music that changes their perspective?

Hmm. Well, mood, I think of nostalgia. I think of... Movies are a perfect example of how they put music in to, like, change your mood of, like, think about there's a love scene happening, and they're playing love music, right? Or whatever it may be. It's fighting going on, and they're playing h- heavy m- you know, whatever it may be to create a feeling in you to make you, put you in the moment even more,

right?

So I think about, about that. And so I think of DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, Summertime. They play that song. Nostalgia, you know, you're thinking about summer, you're thinking about barbecuing and dan- you know, all the things, right? Now with a song about perspective, I think, you know, music will do that as well.

And so you have hip hop artists that are sh- are bringing light to certain topics, right? Again, Public Enemy back in the day, Kendrick Lamar today different artists like that, that they aren't necessarily trying... They're trying to take you to a new place versus the mood. Nostalgia takes you to an old place or a familiar

place. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah,

I was thinking a little bit about Australia and we have-- we sadly he has passed away too, but we have an indigenous artist called Archie Roach who was a country style. But he wrote this song, I remember when I first heard it, called, called Took the Children Away, and it's about the sto- what we call in Australia, the stolen generations, and how the government had a policy of taking light-skinned children from their mothers and raising them apart.

And, you know, l- disconnecting them from their culture, putting them in missions or in white families. And so it was a policy that was supposed to breed out Aboriginal culture. Yeah, that's-- it's, it's awful to talk about, and the song is just so heartfelt. And if you'd never-- if you didn't know the history, the song would have told you the history because it tells the story.

And it also tells the pain. So if you thought, "Oh, yeah, it was for the children's good, it was to help them, you know, to give them a better life," the song tells you the pain. And so yeah, that's the song that I always think of as one that, you know, from that perspective shifting thing, really was powerful.

Yeah.

You know, well, I gave you one on that one already of the Old West, Public Enemy.

911's a joke in your town is another song by Public Enemy that was like, well, I hadn't thought about that it would take a long time for the police or the ambulances to get to one community versus to another community, right?

That's awful.

those, those types of, those types of things. There's a song Called Long Violent History by Tyler Childers, another guy from the Appalachian Mountains that just talks about... He's bringing awareness to some of the Geo- stuff with George Floyd, but, like, putting it in a perspective of what if this happened in Eastern Kentucky in the mountains to one of our folks or whatever.

And it's just like a, it'll get you that, that particular song. So you could definitely do those things. I think at, at different talks, again, at different talks, you tr- you try to find a song that goes along with whatever your theme is, and you play it, and it kinda reinforces the perspective that you're trying to communicate already and get people to think about, you know?

If we think about that through the CQ lens some music then does work on CQ Drive, where it gives them the energy and the motivation to cross differences. And it feels like when you're talking a little bit about if you're talking about a different culture and you use the music of that culture, and I guess the generations as well, then the music might give someone who's not part of that culture a reason to lean in and to have the energy.

And then there's also music that works on CQ strategy, which is what we've just said about changing perspective and gaining a new awareness. And so then I think there's also work that sits in the CQ knowledge bit. So if you're going to work with people in a certain place, you probably need to know some songs.

Do you feel like I-- So having moved to Australia, so not being an Australian, did not grow up here I remember being at my daughter's year six graduation, so, primary school. forget what you call that. What do you call?

Grade six would be middle school or elementary school,

Okay, so yeah, you're moving out of elementary and into the next level, so there's the graduation thing. And they put on Tina Turner's Nutbush City Limits, and everybody got up and danced. Like, all the moms and the dads got up and did this line dance, and I'm just sitting there thinking, "I don't know this."

You know, it was like, it was a dance that I did not know, and like it was that moment of feeling like I just don't belong here. You know, I don't fit in. I mean, the kids all knew it, so obviously they did it at school somehow. My daughter knew it. But yeah, it was that, it's that thing where there's things within cultures that if you don't know it, y- you're gonna feel like you don't belong, where you're gonna stand out.

And so, what's an example that you might have experienced? You've gotta know this song or you've gotta know this dance to really belong here

Well, I'm not a good dancer, so, people were staring at Kristen and I when I was trying to dance at our wedding because, you know, she's Black, I'm white and I was fill- filling some of the stereotypes about white people

White,

a little, little stiff, little st- little stiff and so, and offbeat, and I was all those things.

And so that's... I've experienced that. I go- I'm wandering a little bit with that one, so, but, hmm. Songs that you've gotta know related to the culture, I think... I'm having to really think about this one. Before I Let Go is a big one in the Black community, and if you don't know that one, you need to know. There's certain songs like that of, like, these nostalgia music. I think you, I think of more of artist too. So Frankie Beverly the Tina Turners, the Stevie Wonders, those, those artists. I mean, you gotta know some Stevie songs that type of thing.

I, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but he- help me, help me out here, Trisha. Am I answering your question?

I think

sure.

And it's sort of like-- It's sort of, it's sort of that sense of if-- And it's maybe what you ask the locals. You know, what's, what's the songs here that are just so... And although sometimes I think people wouldn't know to tell you because it's so much just ingrained in them. So maybe you just have to experience that moment of not belonging and then go, "Okay, tell me about..."

Like, with the Nutbush City Limits song, apparently what happened was in the '70s or soon after the song came out, in Australia at a school, somebody, the PE teacher designed this line dance to go with the song, and everybody had to do this in their PE, physical education. And so it was like your exercise, and it was just so effective that PE teachers kept doing it, and then kids grew up learning it from their mums and dads.

And yeah, so everybody knows it. But if you didn't grow up here, I mean, even Tina herself didn't know it. So, you know, it was that sort of slightly weird thing that you don't know you don't know and, and people might not even think, "Really? Nobody else does this?" that-- So yeah.

It's the sort of song that comes out at twenty-firsts or weddings and everybody jumps on the dance floor and you're left standing if you don't know about things. But maybe, and maybe this is part of CQ strategy as well, you've just gotta sit with that discomfort and go, "Okay, this is something I need to learn.

File this one away for-- If it, if it, if it warms everyone up so much, it's gotta be something I need to learn." Yeah.

Yeah. I think about my high school well, there were certain songs that people would listen to that... In, in Roanoke, you had to listen to Wagon Wheel which is, are you familiar with Wagon Wheel?

Is one actually at my family that gets everyone up and dancing. Yeah

Yeah. And that one actually says what's... I wrote it down. Headed e- welcome to the South out of Roanoke, so Roanoke, Virginia. And so we were just, people scream that

in Roanoke when that, when that part comes on. So we could be playing whatever. I DJ'd my brother's wedding, and he was like, "I want Wagon Wheel, and I don't want the Darius Rucker version.

I want the original version it's Old Crow Medicine Show." I'm like, "Okay." and that was a song actually written by Bob Dylan originally. So, so, and they bought the song from him and finished it. So anyway, I think that maybe that would be the part that you put in the, the, you know, that, that would be a song that you need to know if you came to Roanoke and, and they're, they're playing, so

yep

Music does have that amazing ability to create unity for people who, like, if they're from that place or and especially when everyone's singing together or dancing together. Have you ever consciously tried to use music to create that unity?

Oh, every single time, 'cause I want people on the dance floor the whole time. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want you to leave. And so one of the worst things you can do is play a song. You play Cupid Shuffle and then you go to something that no one can dance to after that, or only a few people know.

So you wanna keep, play as much music as people know, and then they're willing to show people that don't know. So like, you know, The Wobble is a song that's popular. So like, but,

you used that on our, on our CQ. Yeah

On The Boat. Yeah. I used The Wobble, I used,

I think Ron showed me how to dance it. So Ron, so

They, yeah. So there you go. Those... So I'm always trying to bring people together through through music, and sometimes I'll even announce, "Okay, we're gonna do, we're gonna switch up the style here and do this.

I want everybody to at least try once you know, and enjoy. Look at the person next to you and do what they're doing,"

whatever it may be. You know, that...

Yeah, so it's almost like giving people permission not to know it, and to say it's

okay to step out and make mistakes. Absolute cultural intelligence. The willingness to step out and give something a go. Yeah

Yeah. And we don't, we don't grow without tension.

So, you know, like there's the old saying, "Iron sharp- sharpening iron." There's the old... There's the if you weight lift or you exercise, you're, you do it till you get to that tension point, then you're actually getting stronger, you know? And sometimes with CQ and stuff like I'm trying to get you...

I think if I, if I were to put this in a video game, I don't play video games, b- really, but I think of a quarterback in football, and I'm gonna use a sports analogy. Good ones can see the whole field, right?

The ones that aren't good can see just small portions of the field. And I think if we live in a world where we can't afford to be in a place where we can't see the whole field, you know what I'm saying?

Like, we're hurting people because we can only hear, see small, the like 2% of the field. So at the end of each session, I'm trying to create the tension to where, okay, at the end, we maybe we see 5%, and then we have the tools to get to six and seven, and we keep, and we keep growing, right? And so it normally takes tension for that to happen, you know.

And then one last thing around that is Kris and I, I used to think we were married... When we got married, I kept saying how much we were alike, right? And she was like, "We're not alike." And I would fight for us to be, "No, no, no, we're alike." Thinking that the alikeness would make us stronger in our relationship versus, but actually this is how we're different, and that actually makes us stronger in our relationship.

Does that make sense? And so, so now I'm like, "Oh, no, she's a direct communicator. I'm indirect, but this is how it makes us stronger." So as you can probably tell from your listeners that are CQ, Mike's being very contextual in everything. I'm very much an indirect communicator, so I apologize if that

frustrates you or

n- do not need to apologize for who you are. And if I think, Mike, that there are a lot of listeners who, who we, we do have a number of listeners who are core, and they listen back. So for listeners who've just listened to the last three episodes, I've been talking a lot about that tension between unity and difference and trying to feel unified, u- one with people, while at the same time acknowledging difference.

And so, yeah, I think that it fits beautifully, and, and your story there goes back to those episodes as well. So it's lovely.

Hey, in closing, if you could give every person one song to listen to right now, what would it be and why?

To you, to ask me to pick one song, Trisha, as a

DJ is almost, this

is very difficult. I, even today thinking about that song, Hell or High Water, brought me to tears listening to it. And I think it just is r- we're all going through stuff.

And we oftentimes don't have the resources or the, what's needed to get through it.

And so, you know, I would... For me, a faith, my faith in Jesus is the reason I'm able to get through things in my community around me. But you know, I think that song expresses to so many people that are just trying to figure it out. Like, what's... Is this, is it gonna get worse

or is it gonna get better?

You know, and I think a, a starting point for healing can come in like realizing you're not by yourself thinking about this. You're not alone. You're, people are trying to figure it out. And that song for me is a powerful song. And, and people, if people that know me hear this podcast, they're gonna be like, "Mike, you referenced a lot of country songs."

They're thinking I'm probably gonna be referencing all hip hop songs and stuff like that. Or, and I'm talking about rock songs and stuff. But that song, man just gets me every time. And I listened to it like four or five times today thinking about what's, what's the one song that I would, that would, I would have people listen to, you know?

And that, that's why I would have you listen to that song to mean you're not alone in whatever you're going through. So yeah

Thank you. Yeah. I'm gonna head off and listen to it after this. Thank you.

Yeah

Thank you so much, Mike. I'm sure people will want to connect with you. Is LinkedIn the best way to do that, or is there some other way you would like?

LinkedIn's a great way. Instagram you can find me on there as well. I'm on there a good bit. So those would be the two places. I guess mrnewton210 is my, like, I don't know what the official thing is for it, but that's what it is on Instagram,

Okay,

cool. We will put those in the show notes so that people can connect with you if they want to continue this discussion in a one-on-one basis. And so thank you so much, Mike. I really appreciate the time, the, the, the preparation that you did and the thinking about things with me. And dear listeners, I hope that you have enjoyed this time as well, and I hope that it's taken you on a bit of a musical journey and that it's made you think about how you can use music to shift yourself and to shift others.

So thank you so much for supporting us. Please make sure that you have pushed follow or subscribe on the podcast app of your choice, and I look forward to meeting with you again on the next episode of The Shift