We talk with Chad Gillespie, Senior Manager, Performance Construction at  METUS. METUS is the partnership between Mitsubishi and Trane. Those two companies combined forces with mini split heat pumps and we dive into how they will save you money and lead to an overall comfortable and healthier home. It doesnt matter if it is new construction or remodeling an old house these units can be a smart option.

If you are thinking of adding heating or cooling to your home this is a great episode for you to check out!

For more information check out their website: https://www.metahvac.com/

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[00:00:10] Caroline Blazovsky: Caroline. Hello everybody. How is everybody this week? Saturday comes

[00:00:22] Eric Goranson: And we've got a great guest on today. Chad Gillespie with METUS, by the way. What's METUS mean,

[00:00:43] Chad Gillespie: ago with. Mostly for commercial purposes they have a great commercial team that allowed us to sell our, our commercial products exclusively through the commercial side of it.

[00:01:04] Eric Goranson: nice man. Well, welcome to the show. It's time we talk everything inside right now because we're coming into that time, it's, we've got the seasons are changing, it's funny, I'm in the Pacific Northwest here, so we've been pretty cool over the last little bit while Caroline's wishing she had a pool out back because it's so warm getting into that time where people are starting to think about getting cool that inside and bringing that comfortable weather inside.

[00:01:32] Caroline Blazovsky: and I were talking and developed a relationship because one of my class. Had a, had a humidity issue that was infesting the home and they also had mini splits. So Chad and I kind of put our heads together and we had to come up with a solution to sort of help my clients. So we started talking and I'm like, you need to come on the show and talk about mini splits and all the things that you do because it's

[00:01:54] Chad Gillespie: Absolutely

[00:02:14] Eric Goranson: The mini-splits has really changed how you can do indoor comfort within that home.

[00:02:39] Chad Gillespie: Cause the mini split is now not just a wall-hung it's. It's a, a ductless product or a ducted product, but they're all based upon a variable speed compressor, outdoor unit. So like Mitsubishi or, or the other big names, we, we all know that category really covers more than just the wall-hung, but what they all now have is that variable [00:03:00] speed capacity compressor.

[00:03:12] Caroline Blazovsky: our clients who are just familiar with air conditioning units. Right. A lot of people just think of portables or they think of HVAC.

[00:03:25] Chad Gillespie: Sure. So when we talk about mini-splits most mini-splits where we call them variable capacity, heat pumps, most all of these systems are heat pumps.

[00:03:58] Chad Gillespie: And what we can [00:04:00] still do is we can still pull and move heat no matter what the temperature is even down to like negative 13 degrees. So you get this air conditioner with our systems, you get an air conditioner in the summer, and then in the fall season, when it starts to get chilly, you can switch that over to heating mode.

[00:04:32] Chad Gillespie: When we talk about heat pumps really stopped being effective under 45 degrees. These variable speed heat heat pumps can function in a standard unit heating down to 17 degrees with a hundred percent of their capacity. And then you have cold climate heat pumps which we offer quite a bit. We call ours the hyper heat system.

[00:05:11] Chad Gillespie: There now we're seeing you have temperatures of 130, 140 degrees, so you're really getting rarely warm heat. So the heat pump, people have to kind of rethink how that works and if they're comfortable and I'm sure that you both have had on your show, people complaining about the old style heat pumps.

[00:05:29] Eric Goranson: I remember as a kid, we had a heat pump that we put in the house and this would have been in the late eighties, and I'm going to date myself here, but I remember my mom always looking, walking by the thermostat and it was on an addition we did to the house.

[00:06:00] Eric Goranson: Hopefully warms up outside. Cause that's getting

[00:06:15] Chad Gillespie: The old style, you would have to have electric resistance heat, which is the most inefficient. It's like for every watt you, you put in, you get a lot out, whereas heat pumps and, get the, four times that, for every watt put in, have heat discharged. But the other thing is, is comfort.

[00:06:50] Chad Gillespie: Cool. And so even though old heat pumps could heat your house if you put your foot, but near a register. And especially if you have floor restrooms, like my parents in their kitchen, they [00:07:00] would always say, oh, it's blowing cold air. It's not blowing cold air. It's just not above 98.6. So now today's heat pumps.

[00:07:29] Chad Gillespie: We know that people are also building additions or they're expanding rooms or changing rooms, so they can use as offices with COVID that's changed a lot. So, we've seen a lot of applications for

[00:07:52] Eric Goranson: So they, they had a gas furnace. They love that 130 degree heat coming out of it where the old heat pumps were putting it in. [00:08:00] Like you said was putting cool air. Now you've got a heat pump that can put out similar heat to gas that gives you that same quote unquote feel because you actually feel the

[00:08:11] Chad Gillespie: It is. That's the biggest thing in once. Once you, you get used once you've been in someone's house, who has it? You'll know in, in my family, wasn't convinced, because of being in my parents' house and then we did our whole house in, we did ductless downstairs and then we did duct it upstairs and the house was always comfortable.

[00:08:38] Caroline Blazovsky: So that takes me to my next question about size. So when we're building houses or a lot of applications where I see many splits is in like a lead building or an energy efficient build.

[00:09:09] Chad Gillespie: So like when we declared that, if they're getting an HVAC system, it just decide depends on, do they want a traditional system, which might be like a gas furnace and a traditional air conditioner with it in a ducted? Or do they want to move towards our systems with a ducted system, but variable speed, variable capacity, or do they want to go with a system that is all ductless, which is still a high force heat pump or a hybrid of both some duct and some ductless like I did in my house.

[00:10:05] Chad Gillespie: So a homeowner, unless you're in a, in a zone, like if you're in, in, in certain parts of Wisconsin and North Dakota, you, you could use our systems, but you may need some type of. And, but other than that really anywhere, it doesn't matter how cold or how hot it is. We've used them in every state and, mean, they're all over the world.

[00:10:48] Chad Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know what we'll, what we'll see is no matter what happens with inflation that will regulate itself over time with Ukraine, which is very specific to our [00:11:00] time. Now we're seeing a lot of gas being needed from the us. So we're exporting a lot of natural gas to Europe right now to help offset that.

[00:11:30] Chad Gillespie: And what a lot of people ask me like, well, why have you were still advocating for some use of natural gas, which I am there were like, why use it at a natural plant versus at the home? And the big thing with that is there's two big parts of that. First of all, the healthy part, you, you have a combustion piece of machinery in your house.

[00:12:20] Chad Gillespie: And they can capture that and as technology gets better and better, it's safer and safer. So we don't pump all that extra CO2 into the environment. So it's a double win. And again, it's a process. Cause again, we don't want to completely crushed the U S market and just say, go all electric, because that would be silly to do it in five years, but you will be surprised how much has been, but we're going to gain in 10 years.

[00:13:06] Caroline Blazovsky: And so a lot of my clients have leaks and it's a big issue. So that would remove that piece of it for me.

[00:13:35] Eric Goranson: Didn't go to the natural gas pumping plant that actually used that station. So they lost their natural gas heat in the power outage as well. So they had their neighbor had a heat pump and they were running it on their generator that was running on gas, but they had heat, but ironically, they had natural gas and didn't have it because.

[00:13:59] Chad Gillespie: [00:14:00] that area. It's ironic because it is like when we think about we've had issues with certainly with like in California with power lines and different things. Those are our instance where some oversight would have probably prevented that if the power company had taken some precautions but you're right, like in the, in the recent Denver fires that was having natural gas actually was a problem.

[00:14:47] Chad Gillespie: But let's just say that if the power goes out, a small generator does not take a lot on high-performance house and especially these mini-splits, we don't really use hardly any power to heat these. So [00:15:00] like I live in Virginia, but just outside of Richmond where I live, it's rural very quickly. And people lose power all the time.

[00:15:23] Chad Gillespie: And what we can do is that we can adjust how our buildings use energy. And right now it is 40% of our load in the United States is, is heating, cooling buildings. So we have this opportunity to, as we build new renewables and I use this, I've said this recently, so our family can spend a couple, maybe I think is three pennies per kilowatt in Richmond to get all of our power from renewable production before.

[00:16:16] Chad Gillespie: So moving to electric is actually is a plus. We've seen more volatility in natural gas, not just gas, the pump, but natural gas in the last six months than we've seen in probably 25 years. And it's pretty crazy. And that's not from, that's not because the current administration says we, not drilling.

[00:16:39] Eric Goranson: Yeah, our, our electricity rates out here in the Pacific Northwest, where I'm at is cheap. Cause we got wind farms everywhere. We've got a nuclear power plant in dams on the Columbia that are pumping electricity out.

[00:17:09] Eric Goranson: But last year we broke a record of Oregon and had 117 degrees. And sadly, we had a hundreds of people perish in their homes from heat exhaustion. So when you're planning out a system like that, how much of a temperature difference do you get with like a mini split? Because that is to be honest, outside of what most.

[00:17:45] Chad Gillespie: kinds of areas? Yeah. It's, it's fun generally. You're you're going to be fine. I mean, we have air conditioners everywhere.

[00:18:13] Chad Gillespie: And now it can work cause it still pulls in air. And that shed had like, it had some ventilation like through the Eve. So it did get some air. It's not an optimal, we don't record. But he calls one of my team members and says, Hey, your system is pumping on air. And in Greg's like, well, what's the internal temperature of that shit.

[00:18:41] Eric Goranson: that shit.

[00:18:56] Chad Gillespie: It can go, again, it could go higher, but it's not, it's [00:19:00] not intended to go on up to 135 and continue to cool. So pretty crazy, but it,

[00:19:07] Chad Gillespie: That's exactly what I was thinking. I was like, putting it on a Venus or mercury, but, and this is the thing it's not really that much harder to design our systems at all.

[00:19:38] Chad Gillespie: Most of the time they don't, they just know that they always put a two. Or a one ton in that space. And most of the time that works now, the problem we're seeing today sometimes is that let's just say that you have a space in your house. And the contractor is usually put, a two ton unit in this house.

[00:20:21] Chad Gillespie: And we really yeah, as Carolina knows too, that is not what you want to do when you're trying to, we think there's the most critical part of your house, the lungs of the house. You really want to get that right? Because again, many splits if they're not sized properly if you're using the older mini split, we'll talk about that.

[00:20:52] Eric Goranson: We'll chat. I'm seeing out there. And this is a trend that I'm seeing on social media now, because I'm in a bunch of the different, home [00:21:00] improvement, closed groups out there, whether it's an old house or even our own around the house nation.

[00:21:28] Eric Goranson: You didn't calculate anything out, you just bought what you could afford and expected that to perform.

[00:21:47] Chad Gillespie: Yes.

[00:21:52] Chad Gillespie: So I have this I have this, I wouldn't really call it a fetish, but it's like, my mom loves it when she, when she calls me. And [00:22:00] she's like, w what built-ins have you built now, because I have this thing about building built-in cabinetry. Number one, I like it.

[00:22:26] Chad Gillespie: Yeah, so I do like that organization, but I will not mess with HVAC. I worked for Mitsubishi for almost 11 years. That's not one thing that I will try to install myself. And it's also not something that I designed. We have really great energy experts and designers, HVAC installers that do a great job of doing a load calculation on the house and then laying out the house and, and, as a consumer trying to do it yourself, you will fall into a lot of problems.

[00:23:07] Chad Gillespie: And if you have contaminants, then you get a clog and all of a sudden the system goes bad and that's not the manufacturer's fault. That's, that's a homeowner trying to do a professional contractors job. The part about sizing it's actually the worst is when they oversize, because AC it doesn't run long enough to remove moisture.

[00:23:45] Chad Gillespie: And that's just a science fact.

[00:24:04] Caroline Blazovsky: If you just quick hit your temperature. So say the unit runs for five minutes and all of a sudden you're at 72 in the unit shuts off. You've gotten down to that temperature that you can look at a thermometer and say, oh, it's 72, but you haven't removed that, feeling, that humidity feeling that makes you hot.

[00:24:33] Chad Gillespie: difference. So those are all because of what you do.

[00:24:57] Eric Goranson: the creep, the creep.

[00:25:22] Chad Gillespie: So your contractor has to be really smart and look at that ratio because if they get a really high sear system, that is like, oh, it's so super efficient, but it doesn't ring out a lot of moisture. As much as your old system did, you may be uncomfortable because it might say 72, but your moisture, your, your might be up 10%.

[00:25:54] Eric Goranson: Yeah. My brother just had that happen in his house. They had a, before he got it, about 10 [00:26:00] years ago, 19.

[00:26:22] Eric Goranson: All of a sudden they completely changed the heating and cooling system up there. And then they realized that they were short cycling that unit so badly that it burned it up early. And of course now they're putting in a unit that's literally half the size, cause it was oversized for a very inefficient house.

[00:26:54] Chad Gillespie: within his house. Absolutely. I, in that, that's a great point because we are trying to make our houses more efficient.[00:27:00]

[00:27:14] Chad Gillespie: If you have, combustion equipment in your house and a lot of that carbon dioxide is present. It's not escape. That extra air ceiling needs you, you have to think about this as a house, as a system. The one thing back to comfort before we go to that part about the health of, of, of doing upgrades to your house is what we call mean, radiant temperature.

[00:27:51] Chad Gillespie: And what mean radiant temperature is for your listeners. If you think about the fact that air is 72 degrees, because that air conditioner just [00:28:00] blasted it out. And now the air is 72 degrees, the walls, the surfaces, your counters, they are not sending to. And in the winter, they're all very cold. So you may say 72, but all the rain energy from your walls and surfaces are going to make you colder.

[00:28:41] Chad Gillespie: Interesting. So that's part of what contractors have to deal with. They have a really tough job of trying to get people comfortable when they're starting to change variables. Like you said, in the farmhouse, lots of extra insulation, air ceiling, because the whole load profile has.

[00:29:15] Caroline Blazovsky: And so that's why that becomes an issue. And so when you're in the house, sometimes when you say, well, it's 72 in here, but I feel cold. That's where it's coming from. It's just bleeding off of all the other surfaces and making that air feel much cooler.

[00:29:39] Eric Goranson: And I got tile walls up there on that area, underneath the cabinets. My little weather station will sit there and say that it's 64 degrees right there in the wintertime. But if I walk around the corner eight feet away and look at the. It's set at 70. Yeah. It's a perfect example of that. Where, where I'm losing so much heat loss.

[00:30:03] Chad Gillespie: hotspot is. Yeah. Yeah. Even like you said, the thermostat, just the placement of the thermostat is a common issue. Most people want to put it out in the hallway where the return was and that's understandable.

[00:30:41] Chad Gillespie: But we'll have four thermostats that are monitoring all those different areas. So that it's regulating that versus having one thermostat with one giant system in the middle of the house, doing two floors. And you're never comfortable because you'll see six to eight degrees swings from first floor, second floor.

[00:31:18] Caroline Blazovsky: And depending if you have a first floor, second floor open floor plan that will kind of help to regulate that space.

[00:31:37] Chad Gillespie: We're mostly that older retrofit type of home. Like the Northeast is our biggest market. Those houses, don't have to work. A lot of them have oil, no air conditioning, and now need the air conditioning. And so they're trying to figure out how, how to, to design for these houses. And a lot of times, as Eric said, putting in a giant [00:32:00] Upwork system into a, a house built in the thirties that doesn't have duct work is, is crazy expensive.

[00:32:25] Chad Gillespie: You, you don't necessarily want to put a wall in there, but if it's fairly good size and it has a big window, that's not insulated, or it gets a lot of sun and it's cause it's an exterior wall, that bathroom has load. It's going to need something. So there's either two things. You either figure out how to run a small ducted system to drop, event into that bathroom.

[00:33:04] Chad Gillespie: Using your bath fan is going to extract air and it'll help pull conditioned air in, but it's not seeing any load from around the walls because they're all kind of. Route. So there is a balance and this is the thing is having a good contractor that has been trained in how to design these and work with the customer is really important.

[00:33:40] Eric Goranson: You got woven there, but that's not what you're looking for. What do you see out there with maintenance with these things? Because I know it's an issue where people don't want to get up on a ladder. Sometimes they put them up high in the ceiling and that old. And they just get

[00:34:00] Chad Gillespie: I have a picture that I've sent to customers and to family members about how you, why you need to maintain these. And the best thing to do is when your contractor installs is get a maintenance agreement and, just have them come out once a year. And the thing of it is, is that, that, that, that blower wheel can certainly get any type of particular matter on there and global it can, and we've come out with a process that we we put that coating on our, and the interior of our units to prevent that type of growth.

[00:34:57] Chad Gillespie: Ma besides you clean the filters, that's the first thing, please [00:35:00] clean your

[00:35:12] Caroline Blazovsky: So you must do it. My recommendation is at least every two years to three years for ducks. So with a mini-split do you think it would be more or less or about the same set?

[00:35:30] Chad Gillespie: We have newer houses that don't have a lot of they're, well-insulated, they don't have a lot of particulate matter moving around. So they're not getting a lot of dust and pollen moving through the walls into, into your, into your space. Then you have an old house, it might have four surfaces.

[00:36:03] Chad Gillespie: We, and the reason I say the dirt road is we had a unit, it was kind of a kind of a security shed at a facility. And it was a dirt road leading up to the security shit. And so he was always opening the door for customers, but that constantly got this red, this dust moving in. And so that needed actually every six months, it needed to be cleaned because it got so much dust buildup on the coil and blower wheel.

[00:36:50] Eric Goranson: I think it's just having somebody eyeball at once a year is smart, preventative maintenance, because many times that professional will go, Hey, if we don't clean [00:37:00] this up right now and another year, this is going to be a big problem. Exactly.

[00:37:13] Caroline Blazovsky: At Mitsubishi train.

[00:37:32] Chad Gillespie: And it's the same thing that the car car manufacturers want to say. Now we get a hundred miles to the gallon versus 12. That, that, that sounds great. In theory with air conditioners and heat pumps, you have to be mindful of that, that originally, when some of these manufacturers came out with these high sear products that, see your rating used to be great when it was 10, do you have a 10th of your air conditioner?

[00:38:16] Chad Gillespie: If we didn't make some changes in the algorithms, we could see a decline in how much moisture. So our factory is quickly adjusted to that and started to make sure that we maintain those, those ratios so that we wouldn't cause issues of the house. So that's, again, not every manufacturer has done that today.

[00:38:50] Eric Goranson: So, what do you see in these days, as far as technology moving forward?

[00:39:05] Chad Gillespie: Yeah. So a few things we certainly have an app that we use, you can use from your smartphone and change the temperature in every room.

[00:39:34] Chad Gillespie: And I was guilty of one I, I did not change my filter and I got an error code. And so I know right. Of course. Cause that was building cabinets. Yeah. So the, all the salt does Claude to the filter. And so anyway, so it's a simple code. You look it up, but on the app you have the app, it'll tell you what that fall code is.

[00:40:16] Chad Gillespie: Would you like me to come, take care of that. So it's going to allow the homeowner and the contractor to, to provide a better service for the homeowner, but also Hillary would be, have a better working system, but there are all kinds of things that we can work into that, there are apps that monitor outdoor temperature.

[00:40:54] Chad Gillespie: It may only last file off. Exactly. So, so these are all things that the science is getting better and [00:41:00] better, and it's again, not gonna, it's not gonna affect the consumer. They're not going to have to like turn on their, ERV to, to not pull an air or turn it off. It's all the goal is to get all integrated.

[00:41:20] Eric Goranson: What's cool is you guys have joined up this last year with the home connectivity Alliance.

[00:41:45] Eric Goranson: What was that like? Earlier this year, we talked had a conversation with the union home Choi. Who's from Samsung, who's the president of this group. And he's saying that down the road, you'll be able to grab a temperature, a degree temperature. The Samsung [00:42:00] TV and be able to get a temperature from that or the GE washer and dryer in the laundry room.

[00:42:15] Caroline Blazovsky: And when he said, oh, I was going to say, Eric, what Samsung told Eric and I, with that, we want to think about technology in a home, like the door at the bank.

[00:42:39] Caroline Blazovsky: So he is Mr. Smart home and then some so, and it's important how all these things work together and especially in the healthy home space, because we're looking at, I want people to know what their carbon monoxide is, what. There are particulate matter 2.5 is VOC. I mean, all of these things are important to how I assess a home.

[00:43:04] Chad Gillespie: It does. And that sensor technology is critical. It's, it's getting a lot better and there's some, there's some good ones out there, but you know, they're, they're really, they're the really, really amazing ones are cost prohibited for almost any homeowner to, to do their whole house, but you definitely can get some that really monitor the critical ones.

[00:43:40] Chad Gillespie: That are putting that they not only are they making traditional HVAC or TVs or phones, but they're in refrigerators, but now they're looking at smart hoods to integrate that system. And so that that's again, w Panasonic has it too with, their, their technology that they had, their ERBs and bath fans, all connected hood.[00:44:00]

[00:44:17] Chad Gillespie: I noticed when I traveled, I didn't have headaches. And when I came home, I had. And it wasn't for drinking wine and that's usually my experience. It's not, but

[00:44:28] Chad Gillespie: it wasn't. But what we, when I looked at the air handler and I just started working for Mitsubishi I w I didn't see anything wrong with air handler, but I noticed this appendage off the side, there was a humidifier, well, I just happened to open it up.

[00:44:43] Caroline Blazovsky: And did you get sinus infections? That's a contributor for sinus infections, ear infections, pneumonia, bronchitis. You got it all going

[00:45:03] Chad Gillespie: We were only there for another year and a half, but, that's what got me started thinking about indoor air quality and, and, because I was just like, this is terrible. Like, if I felt this bad. And it, it, it did not allow me to work to my optimal level when I was working at home, what's it doing to my kids.

[00:45:32] Chad Gillespie: Cause they're not, unless you have a really good builder because we have enough problems trying to fix old houses. We don't need a whole new crop, a new houses every year that.

[00:45:46] Caroline Blazovsky: It's, it's problematic, right? From the get go. Somebody thinks they're going to buy a home and it's going to be perfect. And unfortunately there's a lot of things wrong. So, and some of these things homeowners do, that's why the education piece is key because homeowners actually do stuff [00:46:00] unbeknownst to them, to their own home environment.

[00:46:16] Caroline Blazovsky: So we do these things too. So it's, it's a, it's a tri-fold approach. We need technology and the three people that are. The keys are right on this call. So we need Eric to talk about technology and how it can work for us and help us make us smarter. We need someone like me, who's educating the public about what not to do, because even if you have the tech you're might do stupid stuff.

[00:46:43] Chad Gillespie: all on this call. Absolutely. I agree. A hundred percent.

[00:47:05] Eric Goranson: And today. Newest, constructive,

[00:47:33] Chad Gillespie: So they don't follow Florida code IECC 2015 or 18 or 21 code. There, there are a couple states that don't follow a code. Now they have local building jurisdictions that have a code prescribed, but they don't follow what we're seeing today as being the best way to build. So with that, you have builders that are not following, you guys, or, any of the other, building science, traders are building tech, technology trainers.

[00:48:18] Chad Gillespie: And what's a

[00:48:20] Chad Gillespie: Right. And so, so you're going to get that. And even if they're building to the current code, which again, states have a time, they don't have to follow the newest. If they're at a 2012 code that they're building by, that's like kind of building a car today that has a specification from 2001.

[00:48:57] Chad Gillespie: And so they, then [00:49:00] they wonder why in 10 years there might be some old or, again, the worst part is they never uncovered the mold. That's behind the drywall. And, but they just know they're not feeling well and they never know why that's the problem.

[00:49:20] Eric Goranson: Why don't you guys deal with humidity down here?

[00:49:23] Chad Gillespie: business,

[00:49:26] Chad Gillespie: Florida is just Alabama that, the psoas humidity and it's, so it's such a really tough market for HVAC. Before you, again, if you had a really giant your air conditioner and you can definitely get to be comfortable with house was leaky because the interesting thing is, is that when the house leaks in the summer, you're getting hot air coming into the house so that your air conditioner is going to run a longer.

[00:50:16] Chad Gillespie: Most of the bills they do in Florida now have a supplemental dehumidifier. And that's why, Nikki from ultra air, I've been friends, we've known that that is critical for all new construction. Then we did a, a seminar probably seven years ago for Florida builders and try to help them understand, like you really, really need to have something built, even edification because I work for a heat pump air Cushing company, and it does not do enough in some climate zones.

[00:50:54] Caroline Blazovsky: Chad. So do we, so I guess this is a good example. So in Florida, what happens a lot is [00:51:00] that there are portions of Florida where they will get cold spells.

[00:51:24] Caroline Blazovsky: How do they control that? And usually what we recommend obviously is putting on a dehumidifier, a whole house dehumidifier that runs when you, aren't using your temperatures, you're not using your HVAC system. You'll still have a DEU that runs and circulates it air. That's important. How about with mini splits?

[00:51:43] Chad Gillespie: happening? Well, yeah, we definitely do. And Florida's a huge market for us because you have so many. Lanais and, and other, closing in screen porches to, to use as a condition space. So we, we do a lot of business of Florida, not only the retrofit of that business, but new construction [00:52:00] whether they're small single family or their 10,000 square foot mega mansions we use them and, and again, it all comes back to that, that load and having a good, building scientists that you know, that you either work with, or if you've got a great, hers rater who has been her certified and they understand the components of the house and they do more than just do the load.

[00:52:46] Chad Gillespie: So all those things, I mean, it sounds technical and it is because today's homes are yeah, they're complex. And so that's why builders really have to start leaning on. If they're not ready, leaning on [00:53:00] some of their professional trades to assist them, and then that's going to cost them. So they need needed to pass it on to the consumer and explain to the consumer why their house might be $5,000 more than a builder.

[00:53:30] Chad Gillespie: And, in new construction when they don't make these changes, the homeowners can ask those questions and they're asking the questions and HVAC con already knows the answer, the goal, we're not there yet. We got two out of three. So you got a good chance. They may make some of those changes.

[00:54:09] Eric Goranson: So I ended up, I ended up sitting there in forcing the AC to work by turning the temperature up the room to 78. Got it nice and hot. And then cranked it down to 65 to let the AC run, to try to use it as a dehumidifier cause there in that hotel, it was a four star hotel. There was no dehumidifier in that building.

[00:54:55] Chad Gillespie: And for your listeners that don't know what dewpoint is. You can find that on your app, you can [00:55:00] look at, your local weather. And so we do point is, and if the dewpoint is really low, then that's going to be really, it's going to be really humid. It's really, really humid because if water gets really high, sorry, stupid.

[00:55:30] Chad Gillespie: And so it's relative humidity. Doesn't really tell you what you need to know, but do point does. So during those shoulder months, and you might have a dewpoint that's really high in no air conditioner or dehumidifier, why don't start condensing and it's, but it's only 72, it's only 68, but all of a sudden the dewpoint is so high.

[00:56:00] Eric Goranson: No, Chad, we're running out of time here. What other stuff have we not talked about?

[00:56:15] Chad Gillespie: The house needs to breathe. It's you built it too tight if I hear that again. I mean, I chuckle because I go through it. I asked this question all the time. It's one of the first things I ask when your presentation can a house be built to tight? Absolutely. Oh gosh. Oh, it's got to breathe. All right. Well, yes, it needs to breathe through a small hole in your ERV is really where it needs rephra breathe.

[00:56:57] Chad Gillespie: And you're pulling air in through all these [00:57:00] places. So would you rather, it come from a really nice, metal pipe that has a really nice filter before it even gets in your house. That's where you want to breathe. So I think that's the thing that consumers are. They hear that from a builder or an HVAC contractor that they really need to, to read up on a little bit and then, talk to their contractor about it more because that is the more we build the title we want to get.

[00:57:30] Eric Goranson: Nice, Chad, thanks for coming on today. Chad Gillespie from Rishi train. We will have to do this again. Thank you for sure. An excellent well I'm Eric G Caroline B and you've been listening to.