Show Notes: Interview with Matthew Grant – Lawsuit Against St. Louis MO Family Court

In this episode, we sit down with Matt Grant for an in-depth interview focused exclusively on his ongoing lawsuit against the St. Louis, Missouri family court. Matt shares his personal journey, the motivations behind his legal action, and the broader implications for families navigating the court system.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Matt Grant’s background and what led him to file suit against the St. Louis family court.
• The specific issues and alleged injustices that prompted the lawsuit.
• How the family court system operates in St. Louis and the challenges faced by parents and children.
• The legal process: hurdles, milestones, and what Matt hopes to achieve through his case.
• Broader implications for family law reform and the rights of parents.
• Advice and insights for others facing similar struggles in the family court system.

Why Listen:

This episode offers a rare, candid look at the realities of challenging the family court system from someone directly involved. Whether you’re a parent, legal professional, or advocate for reform, Matt’s story provides valuable perspective on the fight for justice and accountability in family law.

Resources & Links:

• https://www.facebook.com/MatthewRGrant
• https://www.tiktok.com/@matt.grant.stl

Tune in for a compelling conversation that sheds light on the complexities and stakes of family court litigation.

Today we have a special episode of the Judgmental Podcast.

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We are interviewing Matt Grant,

who has filed a federal lawsuit

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against the family court in St.

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Louis County in Missouri.

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Now, this is.

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Not something I think that we've seen

before, and we began following this a few

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weeks ago when we saw a few articles about

the filing and we thought we'd reach out

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and see if we could hear his story and

find out if there are similarities within

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the family court system there with other

family courts in the country and find out

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what's really going on with that lawsuit.

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He has filed claims under the

Racketeer Influenceand Corrupt

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Organizations Act, RICO, as well as,

um, some federal civil rights claims.

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So this should be very interesting.

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Without further ado, let's get started.

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Christine (2): All right.

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Well, welcome to the Judgmental podcast.

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Today we have Matt Grant.

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He actually filed a RICO charge

against family court outta St.

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Louis, correct?

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Live-Mix - FINAL: Yes.

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Hi.

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Thanks for having me.

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I sure did.

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It's a civil RICO civil

rights class action.

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A proposed class action

and several other claims.

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Yes.

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And so obviously Hugh and I

are both attorneys that kind

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of, we are both licensed.

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We practiced in family court

me a decade, him 20 years.

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And we talk a lot about the

problems in family court.

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I did criminal prior to that.

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So I guess if you could just give us

kind of like, I've read your complaint.

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I've listened to the GAL call.

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But just kind of give us your overview

of what you allege was happening.

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Yeah.

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Well, it's still ongoing.

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Actually.

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I just was in court yesterday

and cross-examined my judge.

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I don't know that you'll ever run across

anybody that's ever done that, but in the

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con in this particular, in this context.

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But yeah, so, I'm a dad

of two teenage boys.

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And I found my way into the family

court system, unfortunately.

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Just get it out there.

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I'm a, I'm an alcoholic, recovering

alcoholic February, late February of 23.

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24, I'm sorry.

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24 had to ultimately the lawsuit

or the motion to modify being filed

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before I could get I was on my way to

rehab before I was able to get there.

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And there's a lot of stuff that

happened at that timeframe, but when I

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returned, I re, I, I knew litigation.

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Was taking place.

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And when I returned and that's when

I found myself pulled into, you know

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this, the madness and the nightmare.

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That I'm still dealing with today.

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So yeah, that was 17 months ago, I guess.

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18 months ago that the case.

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Well March.

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Yeah, no, I guess 17 months ago.

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March 12th or 13th of 24.

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And so just what are your allegations

as far, explain to us, like we don't

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have any idea what a RICO charge is.

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Sure.

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And, and the RICO language is, is,

you know, kind of the fancy term

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that gets everyone's attention,

but also the interplay is with the

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Civil Rights Act, but basically what

en RICO was adopted for the mob.

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Right.

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So if you look at it, what,

what I'm alleging and which I

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have evidence of, is that in St.

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Louis County, Missouri, there's been

a longstanding criminal enterprise.

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So RICO doesn't just apply to the mafia,

it applies to any sort of racketeering or

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criminal organization that's out there to,

you know, essentially to steal money is,

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is almost always involved in a RICO case.

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And obviously mine is a civil RICO case.

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But what's going on here and

has been going on for years

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is there's a system in play, a

well-oiled machine that runs in St.

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Louis County where the judges,

the commissioners, the lawyers.

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And the guardian ad litems, when

I say them, it's not all of them.

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A subset of them are all in

this together to pilfer money.

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From, from parents is what they're doing.

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They're using and they use

children as leverage to do it.

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They take children away and they drag

out cases and they demand outrageous.

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Settlements which most people give into.

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I, I've held my ground

and refused to settle.

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And on their terms at least I,

you know, I was very reasonable.

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I just wanna go back to where I was.

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But yeah, so basically this is an

ongoing, basically when the, as my

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complaint says, when you get the right

judge or commissioner, and then you

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have the two right lawyers me, I had

a, I had two lawyers before this.

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I'm now currently pro se.

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But the two parents, you know, you have

typically a, a father and a mother, but

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it could be other any other scenario.

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And then you have a guardian ad litem.

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If they're all in on it, so to say,

then that's when the system runs

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and, and you know, the, that's when

the, the racketeering kicks in.

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And that's what I found my.

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You know, involved in, or let me

clarify, at least one of the lawyers

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has to be, you know, negligent.

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So, but the lawyer, I, my, my

children's mother's lawyer is

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the one on the ethics board and

yeah, I allege no doubt about it.

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She's involved, knowingly

involved and she's engaged, she's

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committed a litany of crimes.

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And, but she, you know, she's involved

in this, this racket if you will.

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It is racketeering, but really, you know,

it's depriving parents of due process.

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And ultimately s steal money

is put money in their pockets.

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That's what this is all about.

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So one of the things that we

explore on this podcast a lot,

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and one of my big concerns is the

deprivation of due process to parents

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through the family court system.

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And one of the things that led me

to leave my litigation practice was

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something I kind of started feeling

as, you know, the the system, how

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all these people are interconnected.

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And I was just being told, you know, when,

when I would fight back and say, okay.

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This statute says you have to have a

hearing with this in this many days,

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and here's how it's supposed to go, even

though that was never done in a particular

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division or a particular type of case.

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And then just getting, getting met with,

well, but that's not how it works here.

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This is just how we do it.

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And it's just, there's this sort of fact,

there's this sort of machine that gets

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built and it all has the same parts and it

just starts treating everything the same

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way and processing things the same way.

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And you see, you know, judges bring

attorneys back and talk to the

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attorneys about a case, and they

will talk about what they're going

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to do to try to resolve the case.

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And it may or may not have anything to

do with what the clients want to do.

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And I That's exactly right.

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It was interesting to see you, you

framed that as an actual civil rights

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violation and a civil RICO case.

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And that was the first time that

I had seen that what we've seen.

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We've read about a couple other RICO

cases that were filed against against,

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you know, there there were more overt acts

and it was just a few isolated people, you

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know, that were sort of caught up in it.

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This is more of a systemic thing

that I think your case reminds

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a lot of people about what they

experience in their own family courts.

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No, that's, that's exactly right.

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Yeah, this is an ongoing thing.

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You know, I'm a, I, I've been

practicing law for 25 years.

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I was a partner for 21 years while I

became ultimately a senior partner, but

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for 21 years and left the, one of the

100 largest law firms in the country.

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Mm-hmm.

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I was in the litigation group.

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I'm a litigator by nature.

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I practice primarily in federal

court, which puts me a little bit

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disadvantage of, I do practice in

state court, court in general civil.

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But I have nothing.

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I know nothing about family law and

family court, which is why I hired

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a lawyer and ultimately two lawyers.

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And what you said is exactly what

I walked into right as I walk in as

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a lawyer and say, so I went to, not

to go back too much into the facts,

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but I went to to rehab for 30 days.

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Completed the program, came back

before there was a court hearing.

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I actually have it here.

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I, I started this breathalyzer

that has facial recognition.

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And I figured, okay, you know,

obviously I have a problem.

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I relapsed, I tackled it and it's

reasonable for them to wanna monitor

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me and make sure that it is in fact

tackled and that I don't relapse again.

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And that's what I thought would,

that would, would be what happened.

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Let's talk about how long do I

need to blow in this breathalyzer,

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but let's get my kids back.

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And it was anything but that They

said, no, that's not how it works here.

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No.

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And I said, well, well what about

the law and this, that and the other,

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and the rules of civil procedure?

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They're like, no, no, no, no, no.

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This, this could take a

while, prepare yourself.

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And then it wasn't, I can't remember

how long it was until it was in,

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when they started to sprinkle

in that this might take a year.

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And I was blown away because there was

nothing, there's no allegations of abuse.

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Mm-hmm.

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I mean, it's just that, you know, I was.

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I did fall off the wagon and I was you

know, I was drinking instead of, you

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know, taking care of my kids at the time.

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But there's no allegations

of any abuse at all.

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And the, yeah, so that's what blew me

away is when I came to this as a lawyer,

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to the lawyer that I hired who I'm now

pursuing you know, for legal malpractice

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and, and the other lawyer that I hired.

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But yeah, I came to it from the

perspective of, okay, I'm a litigator.

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I do.

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Multi-hundred million dollar

class action cases, multi hundred

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million dollar cases, big cases.

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Right.

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So I know how that works.

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Not that I'm suggesting that

it makes me, you know, somehow

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better than any other lawyer.

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I'm just saying, I, I, I know

how things are supposed to work.

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Right.

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Right.

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So if they can, I know how they work.

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In a $300 million case, I think I should

be able to understand and grasp how family

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law works, which is, you know, you have

a child obviously, or you have children

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that need protection when appropriate.

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And you have parents that are in

disagreement, but there are rules

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and civil procedure and they're

there because of due process rights.

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Right.

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That's what I'm asserting in my, in my

federal case, in addition to the Civil

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RICO, is the Civil Rights Act Act claims,

which is, listen, it doesn't matter what.

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Part of the courthouse you put me in.

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Mm-hmm.

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I still have, I still

have due process rights.

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That's right.

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And if I'm not gonna get 'em in the

state of Missouri, which I haven't,

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then I'm gonna get 'em, I'm gonna

ask the federal court to step in and

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invoke my constitutional federal rights

under the United States Constitution.

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I have the same due process rights.

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So if the state's not gonna do anything,

which the state has not, and they're

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on notice of all this, and there's a

lot of allegations, I dunno much you

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want to go into it, of the, the states.

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Either willful blindness or I, I, I

allege actual involvement by some,

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particularly my mother's lawyer

who's on the, the state ethics.

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She's a lawyer, obviously.

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She's on the Ethics Commission.

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Talk about a conflict of interest

but we can get into that.

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But yeah, no, the state of Missouri

here, I mean, this is well known.

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You can just do a, you

can do a Google for St.

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Louis, and it's not limited to St.

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Louis.

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It's well known that this goes on.

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Well, we got a lot of

complaints out of St.

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Louis and I think one thing where I

didn't grow up initially in the family

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court world, I was in the criminal world,

and it is bizarre because you have all

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of these family law attorneys that have

never tried a case in front of a jury.

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A lot of 'em, they've never

practiced anything outside of that.

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And again, it's not that.

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You necessarily know more, but there are

just basic principles, basic fundamental

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things, and there's something very unique

about a lot of family court bars where

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it's just like, this is how, like Hugh

said, this is how we always do it here.

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And the lack of

understanding of due process.

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We actually recorded a podcast,

which we have not released yet.

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It'll be really soon

talking about your case.

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When we just initially read some stuff,

and this is you in particular, are a

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problem with family court litigators

because I think they genuinely thought.

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That they were just gonna out home

cook you and outsmart you, even

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though you were a big firm lawyer

for many, many years, that that's

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what blows my mind is they picked me.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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If there's anybody, they

should have decided this is

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one who we cannot victimize.

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I'm the one.

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Right, because I know how the system works

and I have the skillset to def defend.

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I mean, I'm defending myself.

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I, I'm defending my children.

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It may seem that I'm on the attack,

which I am in a sense, but I'm

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trying to get my children back.

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It's been 17 months.

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I have blown I passed every

breathalyzer at least three a day.

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Every day.

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There's over 1500.

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I now have my children once a week.

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Once.

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And so what were the allegations with

they, they got a ex parte no contact

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order, is my understanding from reading.

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Correct.

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The RICO allegations

civil rights violations.

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But the allegation was only that you

were drinking and you admitted to

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drinking and self checked into rehab.

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Correct?

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Yeah.

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I mean, essentially the allegations

were that I was in my room and the

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door was locked, which is true.

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I would keep myself away from my kids.

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And then I was ordering DoorDash.

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And feeding the kids dinner that

way, then getting out and then making

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them a home cooked meal because

honestly, I was drunk in my bed.

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Okay.

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But that is what the allegation

was, is I, I mean, but you gotta

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understand, my kids are 14 and 16.

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We're not talking about infants,

toddlers, young children.

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My, my, my oldest just drove

them self home from school today.

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So these are kids with their own phones.

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I mean, you know, the fact

that these allegations.

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First of all, the, the no

contact was outrageous.

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The, the ex parte is outrageous.

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There's no allegations of abuse.

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And so for them just to come in and

take control and pick your kids away

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from you, because you unfortunately have

a disease that I take very seriously.

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And, and you relapse and you, you,

you own up to it and you go tackle it.

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And it's a lifetime challenge

that I'll continue to, to, to

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deal with for the rest of my life.

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But to come back and to

be treated like this.

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It's outrageous and, and more

importantly, it's unconstitutional.

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And yeah, for them to think they can do

this to me, that's why they, they came

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to me and still, just as of yesterday, I

was in the courtroom with these people.

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I, as I mentioned, I cross-examined

my judge but they, they still think

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that they have me, that they, they're

gonna beat me and they have this

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posture and this arrogance that I

just, just, it, it just floors me

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that they think they're above the law.

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And, and no one's above the law, right?

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I don't wanna steal and get, get into

all the political stuff, but I've got

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these people, I've got 'em, I caught 'em.

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They know they're caught.

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The judge yesterday, he, he's just

telling me, well, if you throw me

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out, I can still rule on your case.

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I mean, it's outrageous.

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He literally came in and handed a case

and said, well, look at this, even if I'm

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thrown out and disqualified for cause.

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I can still enter a judgment and rule

on what, on your, on your case, on

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what should happen for the rest of your

children's lives until they're 18 anyway.

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I mean, it's outrageous.

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He, the ca first of all,

the case is terrible.

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It doesn't apply.

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I don't know who found it for

him, but he's grasping his straws.

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I mean, it's just, it's, it's outrageous.

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Well, I I, it is interesting.

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I, I shared a similar experience when I, I

moved to, to, to Kentucky from Washington,

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DC and first was in federal court here.

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And got used to sort of the formalities

and the procedures and, and everything,

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and then jumped from there into

family court and it was, oh, just,

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just absolute different planet.

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And, and with basic due process,

you, when you're talking about being

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deprived of a right or a freedom.

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You expect to be the here,

here's why it's being deprived.

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Here's what the conditions are.

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Here's here's how we move

from step A to step B.

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And it, it seems like what I encountered,

especially in in cases like yours,

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where there was a transgression,

it was identified, parenting time

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was modified on a temporary basis.

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Everyone acknowledged that it was

temporary, so we can deal with

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this, but then there was never.

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Guidance, the, the, the ball kept moving.

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Like, we could never say, this is

as long as you do X, Y, and Z, we

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go back and we've, we deal, you

know, we've dealt with the problem.

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We make sure the kids are safe,

and now we get back to normal.

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It's, you start in that

system and it never, lets go.

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Mm-hmm.

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They moved, my afraid

they moved the goalposts.

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Right.

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We use that in litigation.

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And, and, and back to your

point is exactly right.

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So I have no problem and you

know, I've practiced all over.

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So I'm, I'm in Miss St.

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Louis, Missouri, but

I'm licensed federally.

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I've tried a case in federal

court for a month in Mississippi.

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I've, I've prepared arguments

in Washington, dc have been in

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state court all over the country,

flown all over the country.

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So I know the different, right.

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I know the formalities.

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You go up in DC.

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It's a whole different ballgame.

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You go in any federal court in the

country, and boy it is you, you know, you

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better be on your toes because there's,

it is very formal and you go to different

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states, it's very informal, right?

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So I'm used to that.

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Like, I went to Texas and the

judge just pulled me aside and I, I

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couldn't believe all the things he

was asking me, but it, I was a wi

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I represent a witness, by the way.

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So it was, it was different.

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But but yeah.

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So I understand that there

is a spectrum, right?

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So I walk in even in the

most informal situations.

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And when they're, it's really loose.

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If we can use that terms where pe,

where where people dress down and

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there aren't ties that you would

expect to see in the courtroom.

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Sure.

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That I've always worn.

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That even there, there's

still due process, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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We're still following the law.

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We're just doing it in a casual

nature, in a casual fashion.

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But what goes on in the,

in the family the St.

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Louis Family Court is far from,

but what you said is exactly right.

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What they do is they're paid by the hour.

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Right.

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So you, you've got lawyers and you've

got this guardian ad litem who's in

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my, that, that's who I'm focused on

because they're appointed in my guardian

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ad litem gentleman named John Fendly.

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They're appointed to speak out for the

children to be an independent voice.

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And that's exact, that's

far from what he did here.

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He was part of it.

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He's part of it.

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He's on the recording.

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He's the one who offered me to trade.

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If you just stop saying that there's

a crime, you can have your kids back.

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I mean, it's outrageous.

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And so I've listened to that, wrote.

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That phone call.

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Yeah, I think it's

almost 30 minutes, right?

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And like, yeah.

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26 minutes.

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And you can tell that there isn't

a necessarily, I didn't feel like

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it was a meeting of the minds

as far as intellect, you know?

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I mean, I think he just was

basically talking to you and

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assuming that you were crazy.

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And just that you don't know

and that, you know, you need to

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have things explained to you.

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He basically was saying that, you know,

there was something about you leaving

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the country and that he was concerned.

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And at one point you said something

along the lines of like, but

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y'all didn't ask for a psych eval.

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And you're regretting that now,

like you're kicking yourself now

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because you can't say, I am crazy.

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Even though you never made a motion

as the guardian ad litem to have

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you evaluated, is that accurate?

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Yeah, I just brought that up yesterday.

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When they're saying this is

what they're gonna do, right?

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So they're gonna say that

this is anyone who alleges.

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So conspiracy is a legal term,

but anyone who alleges what I'm

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alleging, it sounds farfetched.

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Mm-hmm.

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Trust me, I know it.

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I mean, it sounds like, I think

this will make a book in a

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movie someday, unfortunately.

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But it sounds insane until you're in it.

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That's why my complaint doesn't even

include everything that happened

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to me because it, you have to,

you have to swallow it in pieces.

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Because you gotta, you, it's hard

to believe what they actually

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do, but that's exactly right.

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Is the suggestion that, yeah.

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And I said, well, if, if I've been

saying this since January in pleadings

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and in court filings, why have you

never asked for a mental evaluation?

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What?

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It's because they know it would come back.

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Confirming that I'm completely sane.

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I mean, they haven't

pulled my bar license.

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I mean, just, there's been no discussion.

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There's been no discussion other

than, well, yesterday said, well,

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you're pleading, speak for themselves.

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And I said to him, you

represent my children.

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And if, if I was insane.

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And I said, it's your duty to

keep those kids away from me.

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Why didn't you hire an expert?

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And he had no answer to the judge.

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I mean, he had nothing.

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And, and attorneys GAL is an attorney

for the, for the children or do

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they have do they serve a dual

role in, in Missouri where they can

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also advise the court as a witness?

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So, in Missouri, they're not the

attorney for the, the children,

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they're court appointed guardian.

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So they are attorneys by, by their,

in their practice in Prof in Missouri.

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By happenstance, that's

a whole separate issue.

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But they do not represent the children

as as an attorney-client relationship.

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So there's, but they are appointed,

they're standards, right?

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They have to undergo training, but

they're there to be a, a neutral

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third party because in any family

case, right, the, the two parents,

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they're never gonna agree on anything.

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And what they're both saying is outrageous

and makes the other one sounds terrible.

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So you need someone to

come in from the outside.

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L and on behalf of the children,

look at all the facts, determine

438

the truth, and speak up and tell

the judge what should happen.

439

And that's unfortunately they use that

against you because if you, if they

440

have the guardian ad litem involved and

you know, and it is part of this, the

441

racketeering, which they do, and there's

other guardian ad litems that you'll see.

442

The email, well, there's a big

email in my complaint, but I mean,

443

this has been going on for years.

444

The guardian ad litems are in on it.

445

And so for your guardian ad litem, do

you feel comfortable telling how much

446

he has been paid to date on your case?

447

Oh, sure.

448

I mean, I think the last bill, and

this is, this just came up I think he

449

said it was 27,000 and he is owed more.

450

And then the judge,

this is what's shocking.

451

The judge has made two remarks.

452

One, he said, well, Mr.

453

Grant, that could have paid

for college a year at Mizzou.

454

We're here in St.

455

Louis, Mizzou actually where

my son, oldest son wants to go.

456

And then, yeah, he made some remark and

he said, and this is, this is outrageous.

457

He said, well, we'll just take your

children's 5 29 college savings account

458

and take that money to pay the guardian,

which is outrageous, completely illegal.

459

It's his, there's there,

it's exempt from collection.

460

He knows that he was just trying to

get under my skin and trying to scare

461

me, but I mean, they're long past,

I've been in through this long enough.

462

To where unfortunately I'm immune

to what they're doing to me.

463

And it's just not gonna work.

464

And that's why I'm on the offensive and

yeah, I mean, I the court, so a judge

465

said that, he said that on the record.

466

Absolutely.

467

Absolutely.

468

He said, yeah, absolutely.

469

But you guys don't have cameras

in your courtroom, right?

470

Sorry.

471

No, and that's that.

472

So, and that's interesting.

473

So I've alleged it's true that a

transcript has been changed because my

474

whole allegation goes back to this guy.

475

Persuaded me to consent to

him when I asked to go to a

476

different judge out of the court.

477

'cause I caught the prior judge

in ex parte communication.

478

Mm-hmm.

479

Judicial and she recused.

480

He convinced me not to go to the

Supreme Court because he didn't

481

want everything getting out.

482

Right.

483

He's trying to contain the, the evidence

and the proof of the corruption in St.

484

Louis County.

485

But yeah, that's exactly right.

486

Is yeah, it's, it's, it's, I'm sorry,

I lost my train of thought there.

487

Where was I on that last particular point?

488

I'm sorry.

489

Well, she had asked about cameras being

in the Oh, yeah, yeah, no, so on that

490

I had alleged that not only was the,

the, that the transcript was changed.

491

Thank you.

492

Lost my train of thought.

493

There.

494

I filed a motion and said, I

know this thing's going to trial.

495

Here's what I want to do.

496

On my own dime.

497

Let me bring in my own court reporter.

498

Let me bring in my own videographer.

499

Let's just, let's just make a tape.

500

Let's just make a separate transcript,

put it in a safe somewhere.

501

As long as no one touches,

just so it's there.

502

If there's ever a dispute, he denied it.

503

Oh, and I put in there, I said, if

you're not doing anything wrong, you

504

should grant this motion summarily

and say you have nothing to hide.

505

He denied it and they

changed the transcript again.

506

And that's, they're little

things here and there.

507

It's not like, you know, but

it's the important thing.

508

The big change.

509

So, so I, you know, I, I know that in,

in some of my, my bigger cases, really

510

high asset cases, the things that

had complex E either really complex

511

testimony that we would want to, to dig

into right away in between hearings or

512

right after trial for, for, for motions

or if we were in a division where.

513

The handling of the, so we in, in

Kentucky, we don't have transcripts.

514

We just have the video and sometimes

the video gets tied up and doesn't

515

get sent down to the clerks

and you can't get a copy of it.

516

And if you have motions that have to

be filed or summations or post-trial

517

memorandum that have to be filed

within a certain time, we would.

518

We would make a motion to bring our

own court reporter, and it was just

519

understood that that's so that we could

ru put a rush on a transcript that

520

we can use to prepare the next step.

521

It helped everybody.

522

It helped the court because we

would have the official record.

523

We could put it in our

post-trial memorandum.

524

I've never seen it denied or even debated

that motion was always granted because

525

it was just to allow court preparation.

526

Is that something that you, in your

federal practice, is that regular

527

practice that you bring someone else in?

528

Well, no, this is unusual

because, but here's where I

529

have seen it in state court.

530

When I, I used to travel all over the

country for different certain type

531

of litigation and when there were

witnesses and yeah, everybody would

532

bring, not everybody, the both sides,

the plaintiff and the defendant.

533

There would be two court reporters there.

534

Because everyone or, or people

would have their preference.

535

They wanna make sure that the transcript

was correct and that makes sense.

536

There's no downside to anyone else.

537

There's one more chair in the room, and

by the way, the courtroom is sealed.

538

To your point, not only are there no

cameras, the the, the general public is

539

not allowed in, so there's plenty of room.

540

It's not as, if there's not

space for a, a court reporter

541

and a video camera in the corner.

542

How, how.

543

Wow.

544

They don't allow the public

into the courts at all.

545

No, that's, I filed a motion, so

there's a Missouri Supreme Court case on

546

point, and I filed a motion to open the

courtroom because when there's allegations

547

corruption, that's the exception.

548

Right?

549

So as a general rule, you

should keep people out of cases

550

involving, these are paternity

cases, right, involving children.

551

And I understand that generally

is kind of a default rule.

552

But in this case, there's allegations of

corruption and there's nothing going on.

553

None, none of the kids' medical

re medical records are an issue.

554

This is the kid, the

kids are way outta this.

555

I mean, this is just a war between

me and the judge and the, the other

556

criminals that he's involved with.

557

But yeah I mean, it's outrageous that

he denied my motion without reading it.

558

Oh yeah.

559

I mean that's a common

thing in family court.

560

I'm not gonna lie.

561

Like judges not reading motions.

562

Now in our courts, they are open, but

we are going to court and trying to

563

just talk about what's happening and

ordering tapes and doing that stuff.

564

Because if you don't see what happens in

family court, people will not believe it.

565

I mean, they will not believe that

this is something that's happening.

566

Well, and and that's the thing.

567

I'm trying to figure out which of

the hundreds of people that want

568

to talk to me, I literally can't

respond to people and I feel terrible.

569

You know, that we we're trying to

marshal in the evidence right, is

570

who's got the best evidence that can

put 'em to the front of the line.

571

Because yeah, there's evidence

out here of this going on.

572

In other cases, I'm not the

first one to record someone.

573

I, I recorded my lawyer, by the

way, that's gonna be played because

574

when I, when you file malpractice,

you have to waive privilege, but

575

that's a whole separate issue

that's gonna be very complicated.

576

But so in any event, but yeah, to

your point, I mean, it is, it's

577

just insane how this goes down.

578

It makes no sense.

579

Well, and also I will say

the thing in your case that

580

seems odd because true right?

581

You're not, you're not saying by any

means that you would wanna continue

582

to have your parenting time if

you were at home drinking, right?

583

No, that's exactly right.

584

In fact, like I said, I, I gave my

kids up before the, the case was filed.

585

I said, I agree in

writing, there's a text.

586

I said, I shouldn't have them right now.

587

Yeah.

588

And so it would be one thing if you

were like, okay, I have to prove that

589

I'm sober for a period of, you know,

six months and not like, and, but the

590

visits start happening, the kids start

coming back over, especially at that age,

591

they're able to say, Hey, something's

happening, something's not happening.

592

But that's not what you were

offered in any capacity.

593

Right.

594

How often are you getting your kids now?

595

So here, let me walk you through this.

596

Is this, this is, at least in my

experience, this is what they tell

597

you is that if you start off 50

50, then yeah, the plan is, okay,

598

we're gonna get you back to 50 50.

599

In my case, it was okay.

600

I came back from rehab in April and

the discussion was, okay, let's get

601

you back to 50 50 before school starts.

602

And this is from the Guardian ad litem.

603

And then, you know, then,

oh, let's make a deal.

604

And it's in my complaint.

605

But we struck a, we made an

arrangement to do some things.

606

I did a hair follicle test.

607

I've done three, a hundred

percent negative for every drug.

608

That's not even an issue.

609

And so, yeah, I'm doing anything and

willing to do everything just to make

610

sure, but I understand that there's

a reason for monitoring, right?

611

Mm-hmm.

612

But it should be reasonable transition.

613

But the, the guardian like, well,

we're gonna go back to 50 50.

614

And then I had supervised

visitation until August.

615

Even though we had an

agreement otherwise, super.

616

I'm paying someone to watch me

with my kids when I'm blowing in

617

a machine before they get there.

618

After they get there.

619

And then three other times.

620

So I was blowing up to five times a day

and then, so then, yeah, so then I don't

621

get unsupervised until August and then

I still don't get overnights, so then

622

I don't get overnights until October.

623

And then in October, I get what I, what I

had, which was one overnight, a week, one

624

visit on Wednesdays, that was five hours,

and then one four hour visit every other

625

Sunday instead of go going back to 50/50.

626

And then this is, this

is what tells the story.

627

As soon as I filed my.

628

Motion my writ, right?

629

So I filed essentially of an appeal,

is the easiest way to look at it.

630

When I had all the evidence of

this corruption and I had been

631

turning these people in, I, I

called the US Attorney's Office.

632

I turned all these people and I've

documented it because everyone's on

633

notice, and that's part of my case.

634

Your writ was this, this writ

was with the state court.

635

Yeah, with the State court of appeals.

636

That's exactly right.

637

So I had my kids on the schedule that

I mentioned that I had 'em overnight

638

every Thursday, every Wednesday for five

hours and a visit every other Sunday.

639

I filed the writ exposing all of this.

640

24 hours later, they took

my kids a hundred percent.

641

Mm-hmm.

642

24 hours.

643

Less than 24 hours.

644

Actually, I did the math just recently.

645

Was this at a hammering where there was

testimony or did they do something part.

646

This just came up

yesterday, ex parte order.

647

I wasn't even given an

opportunity to be there.

648

Well, in candor, I wasn't there anyway.

649

But I wouldn't have been able to attend.

650

But it doesn't matter.

651

The point is they just

do this and they mm-hmm.

652

Their argument was, well,

he's probably drinking.

653

But they have my, they have my, my soap,

my, they have my breathalyzer results.

654

They get 'em in real time, and

that's why they're scrambling.

655

Even yesterday, I just filed a motion

today that cites fraud upon the

656

court because the mother's attorney

yesterday at the hearing lied to

657

this new judge they brought in.

658

The Missouri Supreme Court has

appointed me two separate judges.

659

My case, I believe is very high

profile and for, for a reason.

660

In any event, she denied that

there was an ex parte tier O.

661

And I said, you gotta be kidding me.

662

And so today, I, I filed a motion

with this new judge and I, it that

663

they're violating their ethical duties.

664

You can't lie to a judge, because

they were hoping to get a verbal

665

ruling in their favor that day.

666

And then the, the guardian

lit him on that phone call.

667

He lied and said, well,

I reached out to him.

668

Well, that's not true.

669

It's in an email.

670

So I submitted it today.

671

I mean, I filed it this morning with the

same submission and it's just outrageous.

672

Well, that goes back to the coverup

is always worse than the crime,

673

and it seems like they are tripling

down when it comes to this case.

674

There, there there's no, and I mean,

this is nuclear war, so as soon as

675

I, I told my wife and some close

friends when I decided to file the WR.

676

Because we haven't even talked about

how high this goes, but this isn't,

677

you know, this isn't just a couple

of judges in one little courthouse.

678

Well, by the way, St.

679

Louis County is the, the

second largest in, in the state

680

of Missouri, aside from St.

681

Louis City is my, I believe the map.

682

But anyway, I mean, this goes, I

don't even have, I, I will be able

683

to develop the money launder, right?

684

I, I know how it goes on.

685

Do I have the evidence?

686

No, not yet.

687

But I know the money

laundering and how it moves.

688

I mean, these people don't take children.

689

Like if you're a judge,

let's put it this way.

690

If you're a judge, why would you agree

to allow two lawyers or a guardian ad

691

litem and one lawyer to ask you to enter

improper orders that you know are wrong?

692

You know, it's unfair.

693

You're not doing that for free.

694

And, and that's what they're afraid of.

695

This is about money and I'm gonna

find it and I'm gonna follow it.

696

And that's exactly what they're afraid

of and that's why they, as soon as

697

I, when I outed the political angle.

698

And it's not a political angle,

but I mean, is it in my complaint?

699

I know the politics, right?

700

So I was in that world.

701

I left that firm in 2023.

702

But I was there for 21 years.

703

One of the 100 biggest

firms in the country.

704

I lived in the world of

those pe those rooms.

705

I had a seat in those rooms where

those discussions took place.

706

I know how it works.

707

I know that my mother's the, my, my

kid's mother's lawyer, her husband was

708

on the committee that appointed my judge.

709

Or recommended my judge to

the governor that that is my

710

judge, that the judge appointed.

711

I mean, it's just, it's so.

712

The, the diagram will be, will

blow your mind when you see how

713

overlapping and incestual, sorry to

use that term, but it, it really is.

714

I mean, they have it and the system

perpetuates because then they pick up

715

another, when they need a new judge,

they go out and pluck another family

716

law lawyer, because that's my judge.

717

He was a family law lawyer

before he was a judge.

718

So they pick him up and

they make him a judge.

719

And then ultimately when the

next spot opens up, they pick

720

up another family lawyer and the

system just goes on and on and on.

721

Yep.

722

I mean, basically family law is

just such a small arena and a lot of

723

attorneys won't step foot into it.

724

So how many, I guess I'm

assuming that you're working with

725

quite a few families outta St.

726

Mar, Missouri county.

727

Well, so I, this case is me alone.

728

I'm pro se I don't have a lawyer.

729

I, I'm the only plane.

730

Well, I represent myself.

731

I formed an LLC to try to, to

hopefully protect other people

732

and other children, and I'm going

to file, I named my, my children.

733

My children have a cause of action

against their own mother and against their

734

guardian ad litem and against all these

other people that have done them wrong.

735

And so I've filed on, on their behalf.

736

But I think what the, the angle for,

not the angle, the procedural way in

737

which other families are impacted.

738

Is what's called a class.

739

Well, you've heard of a class action, but

what you have to do is it's a putative or

740

proposed class action until, unless the

court agrees it should be a class action.

741

So I have filed and there's multiple

buckets of people, different families,

742

different lawyers, different judges.

743

It's all in my complaint.

744

I'm asking the court to certify all those

as a class action so we can try my case.

745

And take care of this once and for all.

746

Get, get everyone, just knock out

this RICO this, this corruption.

747

Let's get the injunct And this is the key.

748

Let's get the injunctive relief.

749

There might be money there too.

750

I mean, I don't think there's

enough money to collect, honestly.

751

But this isn't about money.

752

This is about the injunctive relief.

753

So let's talk about that GAL call,

so there was a large call, and I only

754

know this from social media where a

bunch of guardian ad litems are on

755

this zoom call during the pandemic and

someone secretly recorded it, right?

756

Correct.

757

And so what it made the rounds of social

media, and this was a little bit before

758

the time that I started getting out

and getting very vocal about family

759

court, but if you are referencing that

tape, what actually happened on that?

760

So I, Donnie come lately,

so to say, on that tape.

761

So I didn't know anything about it until

I was, I, until I started doing research

762

on what was going wrong in my case

and realized that this was a, a wicked

763

web that's been out there for years.

764

But yeah, so that tape shows.

765

There's allegations, and this is

in my complaint, I have witnesses.

766

I, if you look at my complaint, I think

I have witnesses one through nine,

767

co-conspirators, one through 11, but I'm

not using names other than defendants

768

at the time, and this is important.

769

I have witnesses, but I'm not using their

names because they're gonna, they're.

770

The blowback they're gonna get,

and the retribution they're gonna

771

get is, is gonna be immense.

772

So the fact that they're even willing to

come forward, I'm gonna make sure the case

773

goes forward before their name comes out.

774

But but yeah, back to your

question that's exactly right.

775

So yeah, I'm sorry, I lost it.

776

Where, no.

777

So as far as, well the phone call, so the

Guardian alighting call, so what that was,

778

is my understanding of that is there was

a test case, well it wasn't a test case.

779

Someone tried to sue

the guardian, a litem.

780

And what they, on that video,

it reflects that they view

781

this as attack on the system.

782

Mm-hmm.

783

Because if you su, because if you,

if they're, if they're successful, if

784

they would've been successful suing

that one guardian led, then that is

785

the playbook to sue everyone else.

786

And, and, and you can see on that video

that they're terribly concerned about it

787

and they're gathering money and they're

trying to figure out I mean the money too.

788

It's unclear to me if it's for a lawyer,

I think it's for a, a computer expert

789

to try to figure out, they're trying to

actually track down the source of who's

790

posting articles, which is outrageous

that they're, they're doing that.

791

But yeah, it's, it is, if you

attack one, you attack 'em all

792

because it's the whole system.

793

If one fall leg falls, the

whole stool falls over.

794

So that's what I'm doing in federal

court is I'm trying to lay the

795

framework and I'm tackling St.

796

Louis County.

797

And that's more than enough for me.

798

'cause everyone's asking me to go

to this county, go to that court,

799

and on, on this, that and the other.

800

And I, I, I'm aware and I have evidence

of other counties, at least one other

801

county that I know this is going on in.

802

But, so what I'm trying to

do is lay out the, the map.

803

Here's the, here's the roadmap on

how to do this in federal court.

804

And then, you know, hopefully others

can with when the facts support, when

805

the evidence supports it, you know, to,

to end this wherever it may be found.

806

And that's, you know, that's why

I mentioned I formed that LLC And

807

then, so also I saw that after you

filed and had them served, I think

808

just by US Mail, which is required,

they did a you have to be escorted

809

at all times through the courthouse.

810

Correct.

811

This happened yesterday, so.

812

That de escorting did.

813

So the order came down again,

so remember the 24 hours, it's,

814

it's, it's not a coincidence.

815

So they took my kids away from

me 24 hours after I filed the

816

writ in the, OR the appeal.

817

And they've done other things within.

818

We can talk about those.

819

But then I filed the federal lawsuit.

820

And I show up in court,

so actually it's 48 hours.

821

I show up in court the next day

in front of my current judge,

822

and he mentioned something about

the lawsuit, so he's aware of it.

823

But yeah, under the federal Rules

of civil procedure, you can have

824

somebody go knock on their door and

hand 'em a, you know, the paper?

825

Mm-hmm.

826

It's terribly expensive.

827

And but there's another route, which is

you can just send it US Mail certified,

828

not even certified, I'm sorry, just

normal stamped first class mail.

829

Send it to 'em and say, Hey,

don't make me go through all that.

830

Just sign this piece of paper.

831

You get extra time to respond.

832

And that generally people do that.

833

So that's very, you know,

that's well understood by anyone

834

particularly who's a lawyer.

835

So when I mailed these things out,

apparently one when it was mailed.

836

To the commissioner, the one

who recused, because I caught

837

her an ex parte communication.

838

I showed up at her house.

839

He, they're using that as

justification to file this.

840

What they did was issue an escort

order, which is blatant retaliation,

841

four, eight hours after I filed my

case, and 24 hours after I was in the

842

courtroom with, with my judge, he,

they filed, you should read this thing.

843

It's a suspicious package that

I had deliver, hand deliver

844

to her house, and all this.

845

They had to call security or the police.

846

Oh, these are the pictures of

the letters where it was just.

847

A standard white envelope letter.

848

Here's the sad thing, is that I

knew to take a photograph mm-hmm.

849

Of the envelope before I

mailed them, because I knew

850

somebody was gonna do something.

851

I thought they would claim I didn't mail

'em, and therefore the clock didn't start.

852

So I took a photograph that went

to Walmart as the oversized 10

853

by 13 envelope, and that you can

see, I hand wrote the addresses on

854

it and I took it down to the post

office and it showed up in her mail.

855

And she is a, she's a commissioner.

856

And she's so flipped out, apparent,

allegedly that so, so she feels so

857

intimidated and harassed that they have to

enter this order, which yesterday I did.

858

I had to be escorted to check in

with the, the police department,

859

the police officers there.

860

They escorted me up to my hearing.

861

They sat there for the three hours

of the hearing and they escorted me

862

all the way till I left the building.

863

And, and this, I've I've taken that up

on appeal, by the way, because he doesn't

864

have the power to enter that order.

865

But regardless of whether or not the.

866

I'm raising a separate issue

other than not, it's justified.

867

That's a whole separate issue.

868

Mm-hmm.

869

Which came up yesterday in the hearing.

870

But yeah, so I guess the, the,

the, as it stands right now for

871

the, you know, I'm 50 years old.

872

I've been practice law for 25 years.

873

I can't be trusted to walk

around in the courthouse forever.

874

So if I'm practicing law for another

15 years, I can't go anywhere without

875

a, a, a police officer on my hip.

876

I mean, it's outrageous.

877

Well, you should, you should play it up

like they're, your, your escorts, your,

878

you know, you're a super celebrity.

879

Mm-hmm.

880

Get it earpiece.

881

I hadn't thought about Yeah.

882

A way to, to, to turn this

one into lemonade yet.

883

Yeah, yeah.

884

No, exactly.

885

Let me, let me ask you a few questions

about, about the case, because we see

886

patterns a lot where something will

happen and a temporary order will be

887

issued in a case and it interrupts

parenting time, custody something,

888

and it's stated that it's temporary.

889

It's meant to resolve a

temporary situation, but then.

890

You never get final orders.

891

Was this something that

happened in your case?

892

Were there, have there been since the

ex parte TRO, which was by, on its face

893

time limited, had an expiration date.

894

It was then I understand expanded

and some other things were entered.

895

Have there been I guess for lack of

better word, the permanent orders,

896

non temporary orders, final orders?

897

I don't know what, what

they're called there.

898

Have there been final orders entered?

899

So that's exactly part of

the, part of the racketeering.

900

So racketeering also has to have

a pattern and, and here there's so

901

many patterns that I've laid out.

902

It's easy to prove, but

that's exactly what they do.

903

So I should, I came back and

said, okay, there's a TRO, I

904

mean, I do this in litigation.

905

So TRO only lasts so many days, right?

906

Depends on your state, what court, but

let's say 15 days when that's up, then

907

you go and then you have a preliminary

injunction, you have another hearing.

908

That hearing is where

you get put on evidence.

909

'cause the TRO only one side could

show up or there it is really kind

910

of shoot from the hip and we err

on the side of protecting people.

911

But the preliminary hearing is

where you get to show up and defend

912

yourself and then the court makes

a judgment on what should happen

913

between that point in time and trial.

914

So when I came back I expected

that, okay, the t o's gone and we do

915

something as far as the breathalyzer.

916

And while I came back and, oh, we're

gonna consent to continue the TRO.

917

And I said, well, when's the

preliminary injunction hearing?

918

Oh yeah, it's next.

919

It's on June the 12th.

920

I said, okay, well let's keep that date.

921

And then we get to June the

12th when I want my hearing.

922

And I, you know, I'm, I, I've done these

hearings myself, so I want my lawyer

923

to do this hearing 'cause I wanna win.

924

You know, there's no evidence

when I say win, I wanna make

925

sure the injunctive relief Sure.

926

Stops with the exception

of the breathalyzer.

927

So, and then they, they reach an

agreement, say, well, we don't need the

928

hearing 'cause we have this agreement

where we're not gonna have the hearing.

929

And you just have to

do a couple of things.

930

And when you do that.

931

Including the hair focal test.

932

Then you're gonna go to

unsupervised visitation.

933

Well, guess what?

934

That no one put that agreement in writing.

935

My lawyer didn't I didn't

think, think of it.

936

I was, I'm the client.

937

And then they, they reneged on it

and it said, I've never existed.

938

So, so what they did is then

they went to the next hearing.

939

When August, they said, okay, well I have

a new hearing, didn't show up in August.

940

And the judge says, I

said, I want my hearing.

941

And the judge says, you

don't want your hearing.

942

And then your lawyer takes you outside

and the other lawyer, and they, you

943

know, they shake you down into signing

these consent orders, which again, they

944

say, listen, this is how it's done.

945

You're not gonna do any better.

946

This is how it's done.

947

Just trust me.

948

Just sign this.

949

And so it happened over and over and over.

950

And then ultimately when I figured

out all of this was a scam.

951

And both judges who I've been in front

of are criminals and are involved in it.

952

I filed a motion and said, listen, the

only order that's keeping me from my

953

children is a consent order that I signed.

954

I said, I withdraw my, my consent.

955

I, I, I, I said I, I want my kids back.

956

And the judge when I filed my

motion to get rid of him, he,

957

that day, he denied that motion.

958

The next morning, I'm sorry,

he denied that motion as well.

959

So, I mean, it's just retribution and

like you said, it goes back to what you

960

said is they make their money by moving

the goalposts because they're running

961

the clock, they're billing by the hour,

and that's how they're, that, that, that

962

is exactly what the, what the scam is.

963

That is the racketeering.

964

And you know, it could be in,

in, in the mob or in, in, you

965

know, narcotics or whatever.

966

But in here, they're using children.

967

To drive this criminal enterprise.

968

And it's, it's offensive

and it, it's outrageous.

969

So, and I know you gotta go.

970

Oh.

971

How many times has the GAL

met with your children?

972

Oh, very few.

973

Well, yeah, let me come back

to one thing about my wife.

974

He, he, he very seldom I, if I, to

my knowledge, he's only met with him

975

three times and each time, here's the

thing, in 17 months, they won't, they

976

wouldn't let my kids testify about this

at trial, but each time he lied to them.

977

And he said, listen,

we're gonna go back to 50.

978

We're go go back to 50/50.

979

What we haven't got to, there's a

gag order in my case, I can't tell

980

the kids that they're my, the GAL

who promised them 50/50, just filed

981

a document in July that says I should

have them overnight twice a month.

982

Instead of 15 days a month.

983

I mean, it's outrageous 'cause they're

all, they're all under this belief

984

system that they're gonna, we're ready

to go back to 50/50 and the rug's

985

about to be pulled out from under 'em.

986

This judge is gonna do it.

987

And I, I'm just gonna be on, in appeals

for, you know, years and years and years.

988

But it is what it is.

989

But yeah, to answer your question, so the

GL then I hope that answers your question.

990

And then I said, Hey,

you should meet my wife.

991

Their stepmother 'cause she's here

sometimes and you know, we all enter, he's

992

like, no, nah, don't worry about that.

993

So, I mean, he was just going through

the motions because, you know,

994

he, he has no interest because he

already knows which site he's on.

995

I mean, it's predetermined what

the, what the end result's gonna be.

996

The second the case is assigned.

997

That's exactly what happens.

998

That pho, the phone call that I also

listened to between you and the GAL.

999

It seemed to be where, where you, you

would just ask him, what do I have to do?

00:43:45,873 --> 00:43:46,893

What do I have to do?

00:43:46,893 --> 00:43:51,273

And he kept talking about concerning

behavior and the, you know, you raise

00:43:51,273 --> 00:43:54,723

the issue where you didn't ask me to go

through a, a psychological evaluation.

00:43:54,723 --> 00:43:56,973

I bet you wish you had, but you didn't.

00:43:57,243 --> 00:44:01,683

But it did seem that he, you

know, throughout this case,

00:44:01,683 --> 00:44:05,223

they've referred to your pleadings

and some behaviors you've had.

00:44:06,063 --> 00:44:09,633

And have made decisions or

recommendations at the very

00:44:09,633 --> 00:44:11,853

least based on those behaviors.

00:44:11,853 --> 00:44:17,613

Whereas I can't think of any legal arena

outside of family court where I could

00:44:17,613 --> 00:44:23,883

simply bring an attorney in who's not

trained in psychology, psychiatry, and

00:44:23,883 --> 00:44:28,203

bring an attorney in who gets to testify

about somebody's mental state or their,

00:44:28,203 --> 00:44:31,743

their abilities, whether they, they

don't have any qualification for that.

00:44:32,148 --> 00:44:33,168

That's exactly right.

00:44:33,198 --> 00:44:36,888

I mean, you, it requires an expert

testimony, an expert witness, and what

00:44:36,888 --> 00:44:40,758

they're hanging their hat on is because

I've had so much, I've had enough of

00:44:40,758 --> 00:44:44,808

this, that in my pleadings, when I

figured out they were criminals, just

00:44:44,808 --> 00:44:47,478

like I have no hesitation standing.

00:44:47,868 --> 00:44:48,828

In front of a judge.

00:44:48,828 --> 00:44:51,618

Well, I don't use the word criminal,

but I have no problem putting in a

00:44:51,618 --> 00:44:55,848

pleading and telling that judge that I

know he is a criminal in a black robe.

00:44:55,878 --> 00:44:57,018

I know that's what he is.

00:44:57,018 --> 00:45:00,408

He knows I know that, that he is, and

I've been putting that in pleadings

00:45:00,408 --> 00:45:05,148

since January, and because I call out the

truth and because they know it was true.

00:45:05,238 --> 00:45:07,308

Now here's the thing, they knew

it was true, so why would, what

00:45:07,308 --> 00:45:07,893

are they gonna do about it?

00:45:08,143 --> 00:45:10,933

They can't send me for a mental evaluation

because it's not gonna show anything.

00:45:11,263 --> 00:45:15,013

So now after the fact, after now

they're Johnny come lately, they're

00:45:15,013 --> 00:45:17,743

gonna say, oh, wait a minute, you've

been, there's some sort of mental

00:45:17,743 --> 00:45:19,663

illness thing for seven months.

00:45:20,023 --> 00:45:22,273

And then I go, or whatever

and I go, well wait a minute,

00:45:22,303 --> 00:45:23,713

then why have I had my kids?

00:45:23,893 --> 00:45:27,643

And why on the phone were you gonna

give me my kids if, if all I had to do

00:45:27,643 --> 00:45:29,173

was say there was no criminal behavior.

00:45:29,233 --> 00:45:30,553

Like it was just a trade off.

00:45:30,553 --> 00:45:31,903

He wanted to get outta jail free card.

00:45:31,903 --> 00:45:32,773

He wanted reasonable doubt.

00:45:32,893 --> 00:45:35,773

I mean this, these people are,

I sure hope are going to jail.

00:45:36,543 --> 00:45:39,263

And you very clearly made

that clear on your call.

00:45:39,263 --> 00:45:40,553

You said, John, you're going to jail.

00:45:40,643 --> 00:45:42,278

Like I, I don't know

why you don't know that.

00:45:42,348 --> 00:45:44,183

Well, you, you don't understand that.

00:45:44,663 --> 00:45:46,703

Well, no, and that's the

problem is I know the politics.

00:45:46,703 --> 00:45:49,133

He's at the bottom of the,

of the, of the ladder.

00:45:49,133 --> 00:45:50,093

He's at the bottom wrong.

00:45:50,243 --> 00:45:52,133

He's the first one

that's gonna get scraped.

00:45:52,343 --> 00:45:52,823

Oh yeah.

00:45:52,823 --> 00:45:54,653

I mean, you know how the deals

are gonna be made behind the

00:45:54,653 --> 00:45:56,213

scenes to make this thing go away.

00:45:56,423 --> 00:45:59,993

Now, does he enjoy judicial

immunity or soso quasi-judicial

00:45:59,993 --> 00:46:01,673

immunity there under Missouri law?

00:46:02,498 --> 00:46:03,998

Yeah, that's exactly the issue, right?

00:46:03,998 --> 00:46:05,138

So we have judicial immunity.

00:46:05,138 --> 00:46:07,448

I'm gonna be up against

for at least the judge.

00:46:07,448 --> 00:46:09,368

Judge Hilton, commissioner Greaves.

00:46:09,368 --> 00:46:11,108

That's an interesting is

she's not really a judge.

00:46:11,108 --> 00:46:11,828

She's not a judge.

00:46:11,978 --> 00:46:12,668

She's a commissioner.

00:46:12,878 --> 00:46:15,338

And then you're right, the

GL has a quasi immunity.

00:46:15,398 --> 00:46:15,608

Yeah.

00:46:16,208 --> 00:46:17,138

It is qualified.

00:46:18,098 --> 00:46:20,798

Actually, in Missouri, the fancy

term is qualified immunity.

00:46:20,918 --> 00:46:22,268

Oh, it's always qualified.

00:46:22,273 --> 00:46:22,493

Yeah.

00:46:22,493 --> 00:46:26,318

But yeah, ours have been interpreted

as quasi-judicial, which is

00:46:26,318 --> 00:46:27,813

essentially, it's the same.

00:46:27,913 --> 00:46:29,198

It is is the same.

00:46:29,198 --> 00:46:29,498

Yeah.

00:46:29,558 --> 00:46:32,288

That's why I was trying to clarify,

but basically, which is why they

00:46:32,288 --> 00:46:34,868

act as judges and pretend that

they can make all the decisions.

00:46:34,868 --> 00:46:34,878

Mm-hmm.

00:46:35,483 --> 00:46:35,873

Right.

00:46:36,113 --> 00:46:39,833

So, but the quasi immunity, the, the,

the, you know, the qualified immunity

00:46:39,833 --> 00:46:41,603

does not help the guardian ad litem.

00:46:41,603 --> 00:46:45,443

Again, I wanna say his name, John

Fenley in my case, because what he did

00:46:45,443 --> 00:46:48,233

is a crime and they're not protected.

00:46:48,233 --> 00:46:52,343

Unlike, unfortunately, some judges

or, or the judges, the very broad

00:46:52,343 --> 00:46:55,883

judicial immunity from money

damages, not from injunctive relief.

00:46:55,943 --> 00:46:59,093

And that's key, and I wanna leave

you with that, is that nobody is,

00:46:59,423 --> 00:47:02,963

no one can run away from the federal

court's ability to enter an injunction.

00:47:04,283 --> 00:47:05,723

Well, I think that wraps it up.

00:47:05,753 --> 00:47:08,633

Have a great visit with your kids

and let's stay in touch 'cause

00:47:08,633 --> 00:47:09,803

I'd love to follow this case.

00:47:09,803 --> 00:47:12,323

And if you have anything else,

you know, please send it to us

00:47:12,323 --> 00:47:13,308

and we'll talk about our Yeah, no.

00:47:13,768 --> 00:47:15,113

And yeah, I want to thank you again.

00:47:15,113 --> 00:47:19,033

I, I love the opportunity to get out

and to speak with you and tell my story.

00:47:19,033 --> 00:47:20,743

And like I said, I just hope it.

00:47:21,098 --> 00:47:23,138

You know, I, I'm trying

to do my little part.

00:47:23,228 --> 00:47:24,308

I mean, I'm not the first one.

00:47:24,308 --> 00:47:27,248

There's people behind me, but if

we get momentum, maybe we can stop

00:47:27,248 --> 00:47:29,298

this travesty from going on anymore.

00:47:29,448 --> 00:47:30,138

Alright, thank you.

00:47:30,198 --> 00:47:30,528

Thank you.

00:47:30,533 --> 00:47:30,733

Bye-bye.

00:47:30,833 --> 00:47:31,053

Bye.

00:47:32,447 --> 00:47:32,927

Next call.

00:47:32,927 --> 00:47:35,132

We need some justice, justice, justice.

00:47:35,567 --> 00:47:36,947

And I wanna ring bells in public.

00:47:37,307 --> 00:47:39,677

I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

00:47:39,737 --> 00:47:41,572

Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

00:47:41,772 --> 00:47:43,332

I To the fo Yeah.

00:47:43,412 --> 00:47:47,052

I to the fo fo teaser.