Navigating Tough Love and Direct Coaching

In this episode, John and Angie delve into the nuances of responding to challenging feedback in a coaching context.

They discuss the balance needed between being direct and maintaining a supportive environment, emphasizing the importance of permission-based and individualized coaching approaches.

Through personal anecdotes, they explore the complexities of 'tough love,' the role of provocation in motivating clients, and the impact of different coaching styles based on client readiness.

The conversation includes reflections on avoiding judgment, the importance of authenticity, and strategies for effective communication, whether in one-on-one or group coaching sessions.

Remember, you can leave us a free voicemail with your questions or comments at https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast.com and we might feature you on the show.

00:00 Introduction and Icebreaker

01:26 The Role of Tough Love in Coaching

04:51 Balancing Directness and Support

06:31 Challenges in Implementing Tough Love

08:23 Client Reactions and Adjustments

13:43 Evaluating Coaching Effectiveness

16:33 Creating a Safe Space in Coaching

17:31 The Importance of Real Talk

18:09 Learning from Feedback

20:13 The Power of Genuine Compliments

21:52 Balancing Directness and Support

23:45 Adapting Coaching Styles

29:58 Group vs. One-to-One Coaching

31:47 Wrapping Up and Listener Engagement

John,

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John: Angie.

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Angie: let me ask you, how do you

respond to challenging feedback?

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John: Ah, I love it.

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I'm always hungry for feedback.

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Angie: Oh, good.

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And I say this with love.

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I think your obsession with Taylor

Swift is becoming a bit unhealthy.

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John: Oh, okay.

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I'm listening.

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I'm listening to your feedback.

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I'm taking it on board.

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What I'm hearing is that there's

another strong minded woman in my

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life and you're feeling threatened.

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Angie: Oh they say the

meaning of communication is

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the response that you get.

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So yeah, sure, John.

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John: I'm glad we cleared that out.

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Thank you for your feedback.

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Angie: So are you going to shake it off?

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John: Oh, Angie, I knew you

were trouble when you walked in.

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Sorry, but Miss Swift is my jam.

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I'm

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Angie: Oh lord.

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Okay, let's get the show started.

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so you and I've been talking about this.

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This is something that I think

so many coaches fall into.

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My feeling at the baseline of this

is that how you start out as a coach

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will generally, And I believe that

in order to really remain how you

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are as a coach, even though you gain

experience and you live and you learn,

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I think that if you

start out in a space of,

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Being a little bit more of the tough love,

hi, I'm raising my hand, coach versus,

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right.

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I just want to say that.

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I'm not saying that people can't

change, but I do believe that how

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you begin is how you continue.

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John: Yeah, I think there's probably

some truth to that and I certainly know

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that it is possible to change because I

think my coaching in early days was less

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direct, but look, there were reasons

for that that weren't personality based.

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And maybe we can get into some of that,

but I do believe in direct coaching.

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I do believe in tough love coaching.

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I don't believe in being, I don't

believe in being mean to your clients.

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I'm not, I am not for that.

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And I know there are coaches who do that.

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And, and I say no to that.

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I think that's a good way to lose clients.

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But I also know there are

clients who kind of love that.

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So they have been mean to me, it's

like, or going to that Dick's last

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resort, if you know that chain.

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Where they, we go in and they insult you.

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The first time I ever went in one of

those, we, with a group of friends,

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we had no idea what the theme of

it was, that they're supposed to

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be mean to you and insult you.

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And we walked out.

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Well, I think that can be what your

coaching sessions can end up being

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like if you're not careful as well.

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For me though, I think one of the reasons

why perhaps was maybe a little equivocal,

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maybe a little diplomatic more than I

might want to be on earlier coaching

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calls was because I was working for

another company and representing them.

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So I had to balance that against

how direct I could be with clients

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and find the ways to allow myself

to be more direct with them as well,

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Angie: Yeah, no, I think that there's

I think there's some truth to that

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because I'm certainly, maybe I'm gonna

contradict myself, but I think I've

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always had the mindset of wanting

to be challenging to my clients.

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But I don't know if I actually

practiced it as much as I thought

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I did in the beginning, right when

I first started to actually coach.

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I think the line comes up in

your everyday coaching.

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You really want to be in

this space of bringing people

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forward moving them forward.

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And there's a balance, right?

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There's a balance of meeting them where

they are versus, how much do we want

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to, I don't even want to use the word

push because to me, When I think of the

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word push, I envision myself on the edge

of a cliff and somebody's pushing me.

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I don't like it.

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But if somebody's holding my

hand and we have a parachute and

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they say, okay, are you ready?

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Let's do this.

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It seems a lot more, I would

never do it by the way.

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I'm just giving the visual that

perhaps if John were holding my hand.

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I'd be, a little bit more willing

to jump off the cliff if I knew

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I had the safety net of somebody

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there

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John: I was holding your hand,

at least no one would be able

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to hear your screams above mine.

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That's the only . That's probably probably

the best I could say for that scenario,

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but

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look.

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Angie: pushing is scary, so it's really,

I think it's just really about finding

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balance and understanding why being,

like, why you're being direct because

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some coaches, I've been coached this

way where they're frustrated because

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maybe I'm not moving as quickly.

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As they think I should or could or

whatever and they're pushing again cliff

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and then getting frustrated with me

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That's just shit coaching.

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Sorry.

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John: Alright, so why as coaches do we

want to be direct and even provocative

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with our clients and give them that

tough love that they sometimes need?

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Why is that important do you think?

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Angie: So here's the thing.

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I look at the provocation piece

differently than I do The tough love

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because for me when I'm coaching

the provocation is just what I do

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Every single minute of every single

session, really, it's mind provoking.

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I am definitely searching

for more and going deeper.

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Tough love is when there is this, for

me, okay, this big neon blinking, light.

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And I'm like, well, wait a second, and I

pause and I'll call it out and I'll say

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something to the effect of do you see?

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Can we pause?

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Like I really try to be super direct in

that moment, but I'll call out and usually

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that's when I know my client better.

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So I know if they're going to

be triggered, I know how to

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manage them or handle them.

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So for me, provocation is

different than tough love.

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John: it's a hard balance

to strike sometimes.

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I remember, I think may have even

brought this up before in, in one of

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our conversations, and I forget if we

recorded it or not, but I had a client

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early on in my coaching days when I'd

been taken on by a personal development

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company as one of their lead coaches,

where this client was showing up week

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after week, not having taken any action.

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And every week it was the same complaint,

the same whinging of, Oh, I can't do it.

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And it was the same poor excuses

and just not doing the stuff.

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I was like, well, yeah,

I can't make you do it.

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And so, we have to get that.

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It's this has to be you who does this.

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I can't come and do this

with you or do that with you.

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I don't have the time and you

don't have the money to afford

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what that would cost you.

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So.

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It's not going to happen.

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It got to a point where it's

like, all right, enough of it.

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And we had, and I did all the

things you're supposed to do.

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I asked for permission.

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Can we have a real, authentic conversation

about, and she agreed to that.

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And I gave her the direct feedback

and said, look, I really don't

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see this any point in you showing

up to any more sessions if you're

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just not going to do the work.

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Like, why are you paying for coaching?

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Just so you can pay for coaching.

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It's a waste of half an hour of your time.

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It's a waste of half an hour of my time.

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If you want to waste money and have

half an hour of my time where we

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don't do anything and you don't

get any results, that's fine.

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And it went along those sorts of lines.

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And then she started crying.

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And so it

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was

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Angie: job, John.

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Bring on the

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tears.

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Woohoo!

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John: John!

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Yay, John!

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So it was like, okay,

that went really well.

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So yeah, my first attempt at that

sort of tough love coaching on a

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call like that did not go well.

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I did end up saying to her, look, I

don't think we, you can be my client

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anymore, I can be your coach anymore.

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Other things happened, which I'm

not going to go into now, but

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it ended up getting a bit nasty.

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But I still think the feedback was valid.

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So it's a weird situation.

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Now, I don't think everyone is

like that particular person.

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And I certainly have never had

a situation since where people

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just haven't done anything.

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And we've had to have that

conversation about why that is.

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Why they need to take responsibility,

but I see tough love coaching as being

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the thing that's like going to what's

the thing that you're not waking up to?

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What's the thing like, yeah, you

can show up and yeah, there's

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personal development stuff.

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80 percent of the success is just showing

up, which I think is a bit BS anyway.

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And

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Angie: With you.

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John: It's not just showing

up is how you show up.

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It's what you then do is

the action that you take.

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And that's the stuff that

makes the bigger difference.

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Not just getting yourself

to a coaching session.

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You have to want to make change.

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And if you're not prepared to do

that, we have to have a chat about it.

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Angie: You know what?

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And I think too, so one of the things that

I realized, and I think everything that

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you just said is definitely on the money.

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There are definitely the majority

of clients, I think even if

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it ends up being a good thing.

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If you're really a great coach,

you're actually, you're extracting

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things that they're not even aware of.

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They may come in and say, I don't know,

like Michael, like, why are you here?

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Why are you coaching?

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And the answer may be that,

they want to do better as a

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parent or just, create balance.

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And they have some specifics.

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And I would say that the beauty of

the coaching that I've done, because

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I am so direct, is that they come out

with holy crap moments, like, holy

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shit, how, where did that come from?

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Well, I didn't create it, right?

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We're, we're just extracting

what's already in place.

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Now, for some, using the

example that you just gave,

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it might very well be why.

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And sometimes when you go into

that uncharted territory with a

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client, the, they get, they freeze.

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They're like, what just happened?

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And they don't really know how to process

or deal with whatever's coming up.

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And what happens is the tone of

the sessions can change because

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now they've been challenged in,

in, in a new way, not in the way

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they'd like, they're ready, right?

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They come in to work with you and they're

like, I'm ready coach, bring it on.

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And I'll even ask them,

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honest it, you ask any of

my clients, I will ask them.

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So when I do the check in, especially

do you want more challenge?

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Like, how are you feeling?

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Because again,

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Think of the ledge.

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I don't want to push, right?

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I don't want it to feel like that.

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And it's usually great, but there's,

there are those people, those groups

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of people that are only willing to be

challenged where they're comfortable

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being challenged, which is probably

what you're referring to, right?

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It's like this person was

like, yeah, this is great.

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But don't take me down any hallways,

dark corners that I haven't, they

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don't want to do the dark works.

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One of my clients said this the

other day and I was like mesmerized.

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I'm like, dark work.

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I love

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that.

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They want the yay, rah, rah coaching

that I just don't even own a pom pom.

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I just don't, you know,

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John: I have many pom

poms and a plethora even

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an

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Angie: what color are

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John: poms.

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Angie: Yes.

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But you know what I'm saying?

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John: get exactly what you're saying.

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And I feel somewhat similarly.

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I do.

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I do like to support my clients, but I

also very much like to see them rising to

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the challenges that are in front of them

and getting the success that they want.

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This isn't about me pushing them in a

direction that they don't want to go.

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It is getting clear with them.

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Is that where do you want to go?

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What would you like to get from this?

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And how can I best support

you in getting there?

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I would honestly say because most

of the people who do come work

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with me do get some sort of sense

that I'm a straight to business.

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No, no fluff kind of

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guy.

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Angie: Don't let the

accent fool you folks.

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John: Yeah.

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I like to go straight down into it.

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I'll have a little bit of the niceties.

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I'll ask you how your day was, but then

we're getting to work and, and I want

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to have rapport, but I'm also going

to get permission if I feel I have to

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say something or give some feedback or

comment that may be misconstrued or,

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might be difficult for them to hear.

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I'm going to ask first and say, are

you okay to get some feedback on this?

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It might be a bit direct.

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You might be a bit uncomfortable with it.

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Are you okay?

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Or shall we sw or shall we move on?

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I have to know that they're open to it

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and that

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they're coachable to that level.

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Angie: Yeah.

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No, I think that you, we have to sometimes

when we feel uneasy, we get the little

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signals and we should be able to be in

that session and also reading the session

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at the same time, the energy of it.

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And, sometimes you do have to take

that pause as a coach and say, Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Can I, may I have permission

to be super direct with you?

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And then, in no way, shape, or form is

this a judgment, it's just, I'm curious.

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And then, I wait for them to respond.

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And maybe once or twice I've had

people say, no, I don't think I can

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handle any more direct Angie today.

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And I'm like, okay, fair enough.

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Fair enough.

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But

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do you sit, do you come

back to that at some point?

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Because that's the thing.

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And that pain point I

know is my pain point.

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That's something that we need to revisit.

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And maybe we come about

it in a different way Oh

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John: For me, the whole point of this

is that if you were in coaching, I

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want to know why you're in coaching.

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And if I'm going to be working with

you, it's because you want to grow,

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it's because you want to develop, you

have goals, you have things you'd like

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to be, do you have and create in your

life, and you're maybe even looking for

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personal or professional transformation.

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Those would be the reasons that

someone like Angie or myself

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would be working with you.

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And that, that's exactly

what it should be.

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Fluffy coaching.

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Maybe it does have a place somewhere,

but what does it really do?

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I've never been of the mind where

I want to be in a coaching session

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and not see anyone develop or grow

or change and just come and have a

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nice time and a nice chat together.

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That frustrates me so much.

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And I think any coach listening

to this hopefully feels the same.

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It's like, and

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if

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Angie: my gosh, I

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hope

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John: in your coaching, I hope so too.

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If you find that happening in

your coaching, it is a warning

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sign and you can do better.

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That's all

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Angie: Well, listen, you know what?

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The thing is I do this.

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This is a check in and this is

something that I learned from really

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it was one of my mentors and This

person was the epitome of tough love

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coaching, like through and through.

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And it made me realize, I love that,

but it's a little, I can handle

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it, but it's a little too much for,

I think the general population.

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But one of the things that this person

said to me is regardless of what you're

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charging, but let's say you're charging

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like

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three, four, 500 a session.

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Let's just say you're actually at that

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point.

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You know what, was that a 500 cup of

coffee you just have with this person?

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Because they don't need you for

that and she said this is the check

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in you have to say to yourself was

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that a productive session Or and again,

let me go back for a second because I

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said I don't own any pom poms And that

means I don't want to I don't want to

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give up the impression that I don't

support because I absolutely support

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my clients in each and every session

no matter what's going on no matter how

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difficult they can be What I don't do

is just have them come to every session

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like yay.

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Do you feel good?

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Is everything great?

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Do you love it?

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And no because That's not what I'm here

to do like you were saying and it was

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like this question mark of well How

do I actually gauge that as a coach?

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It's tough I know there are some

coaches that will record Sessions.

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Some coaches do it face to face.

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Some coaches do it on Zoom

or something like that.

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Or some coaches do it over the phone.

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John: These are all bumper stickers.

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Angie: she's fucking killing me right now.

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Where did you go today?

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What happened to John?

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So

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John: do it face to face.

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Goodness me.

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Angie: I can't, but do

you know what I'm saying?

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Right?

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Like, so, so what is your, what's

the barometer that you use?

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John: We're not there

just to be a cheerleader.

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The support is different.

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It's like about holding a space

for them and creating a safe space.

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There's there's a really beautiful book,

called Time to Think by Nancy Kline.

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And that's all about creating a space for

people to be able to think and question.

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And I think that's important in coaching.

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And that's something I do feel

that I'm good at doing with people.

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It's like, let's create a space.

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Let's ask the questions.

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I'm going to support you

to some degree as well.

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I might get a little pom pom out here or

there, if that's what I think you need.

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If I think you need a little

bit of a boost, I'm going to try

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and give that to you as well.

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I can't do a backflip unlike

you, Angie, although yours are

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mostly accidental, but it's,

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but

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if I, if I could, I said, if

I could, I certainly would.

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But we do want to see

you grow and develop.

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That's the whole point of being coaching.

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And to a degree, my experience is this.

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Clients tend to prefer the coaches who

are more direct, who tell it like it is,

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who are going to give them some real talk.

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In the 1950s, they used to call

in the US, real talk was solid

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dick, give them some solid dick.

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Angie: What?

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I

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John: know I'm going to

give you some solid dick.

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I know.

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I love that expression.

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But we're going to give you some real

talk, we're going to, we're going

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to be authentic in our conversation.

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We're willing to go deep with this.

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But we're also checking in especially

if we can see you, but certainly if

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we can hear, at least hear you, we're

checking into how you're doing emotionally

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during the conversation as well.

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Angie: You know what's interesting?

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And this came to me just

now as you were talking.

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I was coaching somebody.

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I was actually in a training.

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It wasn't an actual client of

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mine.

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And this is something

that I, it was a big aha.

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It was in the last few years.

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So it's, it wasn't at the

beginning of my coaching

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career.

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And it was such an

interesting perspective.

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And , it has stuck with me forever.

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And so we talk about not

being judgmental, right?

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It's, and sometimes it's hard and

maybe that's a whole other session.

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All right.

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But in terms of how you're

coaching and what you do or say to

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support your client, and interestingly,

while I was having, sessions with

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this person, like I said, it was a

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training.

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That we were going to a certification

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and I said, Oh that's really great.

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Like it was like an accountability

followup and I was like, Oh, so

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in this case it would be John,

that's really awesome that you

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did that.

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So we went through the whole session

and at the end we had to give feedback.

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And this person said to me, Hey

Angie, are you open to hearing some.

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Not so positive feedback.

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And I was like, okay.

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And they said to me, it was a woman.

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She said, you know what?

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I felt judged.

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And I was like, shocked.

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I was like, would he be?

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And she said, when you told

me how awesome that was.

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You're telling me, and I looked at her,

I could remember the confused look on my

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face, even though I couldn't see it, I

could feel it, and I go, what do you mean,

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and no, and she said to me, you telling

me that I'm awesome may sound great,

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but it's still a judgment, you're still

judging me in a good way, and I thought,

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oh my goodness, that was a real moment for

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me.

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, To learn how to be careful,

because just because I was saying

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something like, that's awesome, or

I'm so proud of you that you did

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that.

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Not good, right?

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Not a good look, and it really takes a lot

425

to

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stay aware of

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that.

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You know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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John: One of the things that I like

that's helped me in my coaching was the.

431

Learning about, mostly from Carol

Dweck's book on mindset and growth

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mindset and understanding that

sometimes when we give people praise,

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just because they've done something

is not always a good way to do it.

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It's actually better to

give people the praise.

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Obviously you've worked really

hard on that, so good job.

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They're well done putting in all

that effort, which is something you

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can say, whether they win or lose.

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I mean, it's like you worked really

hard on that because that's really

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what's more important anyway.

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And the, something from the sort of

ancient Greeks, it was really about

441

understanding what a real compliment is.

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And I forget which of the

great philosophers it was,

443

it may be Aristotle or Plato.

444

So it was something like that.

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Should brush up on my classics, but A real

compliment is a compliment on someone's

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character, not , Oh, you look nice.

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Or, Oh, that was good.

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Or, Oh yeah.

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Well done.

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But a real confidence is a confidence on

character because that's who they are.

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That's the essence of them.

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And that's how they're

showing up in their life.

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It's Hey, you, that was really virtuous.

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So

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that's a misused word these days,

but that's really, what it's about

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complimenting those things that

are somewhat unchangeable, that are

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less fleeting, that are the truth

of somebody that's more valuable.

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Angie: I agree.

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And I think that in that moment, I

realized that I was setting up or

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I could perhaps be setting up my

clients to be looking for my approval.

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And that's like way off because

nobody needs my approval who

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really cares what I think.

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You know, I have.

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John: Danger.

465

yes.

466

Angie: absolutely.

467

Totally.

468

And again, I wouldn't say

that it happened very often.

469

But I wouldn't even be able to go back

all the years before this moment and I

470

thought, oh my gosh, all right So what

do I say or what do I do differently as

471

I move forward because I do like to be

direct But I do like to offer Some type

472

of recognition, right?

473

That, hey, you've done something

that was really difficult.

474

Because I don't want it to sound cold.

475

So that was a really tough shift for me.

476

Because I was like, well,

now how do I do this?

477

Be authentic, right?

478

About whatever it is that I'm saying.

479

Without it turning into somehow,

even if it's indirectly, creating a

480

space where this person feels like

they need my, my praise or whatever.

481

So, and

482

John: but look, yeah, if that's coming

in against somebody's imposter syndrome

483

going wild or their low self esteem,

484

Angie: Yeah.

485

Yeah.

486

John: getting bounced off anyway.

487

It's not getting through anyway,

doesn't matter how many times

488

to, Oh, actually, you're amazing.

489

Or no, don't listen to you.

490

Don't listen to that voice

in your head that's saying

491

you're not good enough as well.

492

You can say that to your blue

in the face, but we're not

493

actually getting dealing with it.

494

It's just going to bounce off.

495

He's like, you can tell someone

who thinks they're unattractive.

496

You can tell them they're

beautiful as much as you want.

497

They're not going to believe it until they

498

Angie: Sure.

499

Yeah.

500

Yeah.

501

So, I guess I guess

502

The question is, I don't think

there's a right answer for the all the

503

coaches out there new people or people

that have been in it For a minute.

504

There's no real right way or

505

Wrong

506

John: probably going to get

it wrong sometimes as well.

507

That's certainly been my experience

and sounds like yours as well.

508

Sometimes we get it a bit wrong or we

don't get those boundaries quite right.

509

You're going to learn those things.

510

And unfortunately, the best way

to learn is your own experience.

511

Angie: Yeah, definitely Definitely,

but I think it's important to decide.

512

Once I realized that I was a coach

because we all know I didn't come into

513

coaching It's like this is my choice.

514

It just was there but

515

once I was in Aware of that and then

became intentional, I thought to myself,

516

what kind of a coach do I really wanna be?

517

I really made that intentional

decision and it was like, I wanna get

518

results, and how am I gonna do that?

519

Right?

520

Well, I'm gonna get results by being

direct and maybe, pissing people off

521

once in a while because I've had people

come back and go, you know, Angie,

522

you're so pissing me off right now.

523

And I'm like, oh, tell me, you know.,

524

John: One of my favorite coaches in

all the world, and I don't know all

525

the coaches obviously, but one of

my favorite coaches who I do know

526

is a lady called Carrie Wilkerson.

527

And I admire her immensely.

528

And I've been lucky enough to be in

coaching with her in group sessions,

529

at least would love to have her as a

one to one coach at some point as well.

530

But the reason that is she does

the tough love, but she does it in

531

such a mama bear kind of way that

you feel genuinely cared about.

532

And it's that's something that I

really strive for in my own coaching.

533

It's I aim to be more like that.

534

I want you to feel cared about as my

client and I want, but I also want

535

you to feel challenged, to feel like

you're being given what you need to

536

be able to go forward and do what you

need to do and show up for yourself.

537

And don't just say you're going to

do stuff, which I think is one of the

538

biggest things in coaching, right?

539

People will say all this stuff,

but if you're not actually going

540

out and doing it, then that's where

we have some things that you need.

541

You maybe need those nudges, those.

542

Encouragement to push, or the tough

love to just say, Hey, get your

543

shit together and get on with it.

544

Angie: Yeah, I think there's a

stylistic thing that comes through.

545

Every day I'm in coaching, every single

day I coach people and although I might

546

show up as Angie whoever I am as a coach.

547

I know that every single situation

that comes to the present day,

548

to that particular day isn't,

even though it could be familiar,

549

it's never the same day twice.

550

So you really have to

be able to be loving.

551

And I do say that to people,

like I'm saying this to you

552

with love and respect, right?

553

I'm, I mean that, and I don't say it

as coldly as I just did as a matter of

554

fact, but I think it's really showing up.

555

authentically in that moment.

556

And it's not just a rapport, you've

built the rapport, you hope, but, I think

557

putting that human element into it is

very important because, some coaches, I

558

think Work too hard, maybe, at keeping up.

559

I call it that plexiglass.

560

I can still see you, but

we're only gonna get so close.

561

I'm, I don't really put

that up in every situation.

562

I want them to feel connected

to me because that's how I'm

563

creating that safe space for them.

564

But, I understand that people listening

might feel like, are you kidding?

565

No, you have to keep that curtain up.

566

Not a believer in that.

567

John: There is a space, I think

for even more provocative coaching

568

than you and I would probably do.

569

And for the people who perhaps.

570

Are the ones who really just

find themselves incapable of

571

getting up off their ass and doing

572

something that maybe provocation is

the thing that's going to help get

573

them there, but they still have to,

it still has to be permission based

574

is like, you're not just going to show

up on the call and kind of get abused.

575

And it's not even about that.

576

It's still about taking what's in the

conversation, taking what's there, but

577

really coloring outside the lines in

your coaching session to that degree.

578

And that is to get specific results

from people who are either in apathy

579

or inaction or procrastination levels

that they're just not moving at all.

580

I think those are the cases where

you, Where poking the bear is

581

valid and justified and still

needs to be done with permission.

582

It's if they want to change that, if

they want to get out of it, there, you

583

need flexibility is where you can go as

a coach to be able to help them do that

584

because niceties are not going to do it.

585

Uh, cheerleading, pom

poms, not going to do it.

586

Angie: I agree.

587

I agree.

588

It's about striking the right balance.

589

John: Cool.

590

I'm, I know, I have known coaches

who are kind of mean if they're

591

coaching and sometimes a bit rude.

592

to the clients as well.

593

Yes, they can still sometimes get results,

but I don't think people are generally

594

going to want to work with them long term.

595

And the coach client relationship

is that it is a relationship, but

596

once it doesn't always have to be

the butterflies and candy floss.

597

, it does need to have other el

other elements to it as well.

598

But yeah,

599

Angie: Yeah I definitely agree.

600

And I, you know what, I

think it just depends.

601

I've had some clients as I'm sitting

here reflecting, I definitely have had

602

some clients who, what I consider to be a

little bit more of the cheerleading space.

603

They could not handle, like

they thought that was tough.

604

They thought that was

direct and tough coaching.

605

And again, perception,

do you know what I mean?

606

Like I could say cheese in my head, like

that's nowhere near tough love, right?

607

Or tough coaching.

608

Right.

609

But you know, it's how the

client is receiving you and

610

perceiving your approach.

611

And for that reason, I think

that I've had to adjust.

612

It's funny too, as I'm thinking

about it, and this isn't, I'm not

613

saying it's because of this, but

what I definitely just realized

614

is that these were younger people,

615

right?

616

Maybe mid to late twenties, even a

little bit into their early thirties.

617

And they were not ready

for that kind of coaching.

618

They were not ready for it.

619

I did have to

620

Put on the kid gloves a little

bit more and do that provocation

621

from a different angle.

622

So, yeah.

623

Yeah.

624

I had to be indirectly direct.

625

Yeah, go figure that one out.

626

But do you know what I mean?

627

Because what I perceived as

that direct and challenging

628

coaching, they couldn't handle it.

629

They just couldn't handle it.

630

John: This is probably the thing we'll

finish up on, but Part of me thinks that

631

sometimes the tough love stuff is easier

in a group coaching setting than a one to

632

one Because you don't need to address the

individual you can address the groups and

633

nobody is like you're talking Just to me.

634

They were like, oh you're

kind of talking to all of us.

635

We're not alone in this It's

like there's not it's not I'm

636

not being singled out here.

637

I'm not being picked on Sometimes I

think that those tough love messages

638

can be more Impactful in group

settings that's one of my perspectives.

639

Angie: I just want to ask

you a quick question on that.

640

I know we're going to wrap up, but so

in the one to one space, if you, cause

641

I hear what you're saying about how

it's easier to make this An overarching

642

message in a group coaching scenario.

643

But in that one to one, have

you ever used the word we?

644

And I mean, and we meaning sometimes we

as human beings get lost in whatever.

645

I've done that, right?

646

So that it's not like I'm pointing

the finger and I'm saying we're

647

all imperfect and I will use that.

648

Yeah.

649

John: and stories.

650

Yeah, absolutely.

651

Because sometimes it's not the best

way to just get direct on them and

652

say, this is what you need to do,

or this is where you're going wrong.

653

It's that's not really necessarily

helpful and it's possibly not really

654

what you're there for as a coach as well.

655

So, yeah, I think you can make the pills

go down with a bit of a spoonful of sugar

656

by just by allowing a bit of detachment

and those bit of pills can be swallowed.

657

so so yeah,

658

I'm, I'm ready for my Disney marathon now.

659

But yeah, you we get that.

660

Angie: Great

661

perspective today,

662

John: you know, it's

been a fun conversation.

663

I wonder what we'll talk about next,

664

Angie: Yeah, me too.

665

John: but we will we'll be back.

666

We'll be talking more about what

goes on in the coaching sessions.

667

And of course, the business of

coaching, if you have questions for

668

us, or if you have input on what we've

been talking about, if you'd like

669

to add to the conversation, or if

you think you'd be a great guest for

670

us to invite on the show, then let

671

us.

672

know contact us.

673

Leave us a voicemail.

674

You can do that at speakpipe.

675

com forward slash the

coaching clinic podcast.

676

You'll find the link for

us in the show notes.

677

You can leave us a quick voicemail there.

678

And if we like it, we might

just feature you on the show.

679

We'll be back next week.

680

Same time, same place with more

fun coaching conversations.

681

We'll look forward to seeing you there.

682

Angie: Take care.