You can support this Podcast by buying host Viktoria a cup of coffee --> https://buymeacoffee.com/worldscollidepod

In this invigorating episode of Worlds Collide, join me as I welcome Monica and John, who recently traded the familiar streets of Portland, Oregon, for the charming canals of Amsterdam. Just six weeks into their Dutch journey, they share the thrills of their transition, the nuances of navigating a new country, and the excitement of embracing the Dutch way of life.

Monica, an innovative writing coach, and John, a software engineer, dive into their decision to move under the Dutch American Friendship Treaty visa, which allows Monica to spearhead her business in the Netherlands. They recount the initial hurdles of settling in, while battling the local germs to the simplicity and challenges of their new Life in Amsterdam.

The couple also offers a candid look at the cultural differences they've encountered, including the Dutch directness and the nation's love for bicycles. They share their strategies for building a social circle in a new city, utilizing platforms like Facebook groups and Bumble BFF, and the unexpected connections that arise from being open and proactive.

While they express a deep appreciation for the safety and community-oriented lifestyle in Amsterdam, they also touch on what they miss from back home, giving us a balanced perspective on expat life.

If you've ever considered a move to the Netherlands, are curious about the realities of starting over in a new country, or simply enjoy tales of cultural exploration, this episode is a must-listen. For more stories of bold moves and cultural curiosity, reach out to us at worldscollide123pod@gmail.com, or join the conversation on Instagram @worldscollidepod. And don't forget to follow us for more inspiring content on TikTok and Threads.

Support Worlds Collide by leaving a five-star review, and tune in next week for another episode that bridges the gap between cultures. Until then, keep seeking the world's hidden gems—one story at a time.

Keywords: Netherlands, Holland, Amsterdam, Expat Life, Dutch American Friendship Treaty, DAFT Visa, Cultural Differences, Biking Culture, Social Integration, Entrepreneurship, Software Engineering, Moving Abroad, Community, Adjustment, Networking, International Living, Adventure, Cultural Exploration, Expat Challenges, Settling In, Dutch Directness, Safety, Quality of Life, Work Culture, American Expats, Personal Growth, Dutch Language Learning, Housing Market, Moving Abroad with Cats, Living Abroad, Living in Amsterdam

Show notes created by https://headliner.app

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📋 Episode Chapters

(00:00) Why don't you leave me a five star rating on iTunes or Spotify

(01:11) John and Monica moved to Amsterdam a few weeks ago

(01:48) Monica and John from the United States are calling from Amsterdam

(03:15) Monica moved from California to Oregon to start a writing business

(05:56) Okay, so, um, tell me a little bit more about the visa

(09:04) Why did you guys decide on Amsterdam for so many reasons

(11:17) So how long were you thinking about moving abroad? Because you just said

(14:45) So what has been your experience so far? How was settling in Amsterdam

(18:45) You got the apartment and everything settled in, what else did you have to take care of

(22:35) How did you meet people through Facebook groups and Bumblebeeff

(24:44) I tried to write letters to our neighbors to, like, try to get neighbors

(27:06) M John, is the application process different in the Netherlands than in the US

(28:51) Have you guys figured out the difference between Netherlands and Holland

(30:17) Is there anything cliche that you like about living in Europe

(35:28) I think some people are scared of change. I think that's like the opposite of us

(35:56) Is there anything that you miss about America that you don't miss

(38:43) What is the vacation time in the Netherlands? Five weeks? Maybe 2025 days

(41:33) Are you planning on visiting your family soon? Maybe your family will

(44:38) So do you feel like already, uh, settling is almost done

(46:12) All right. I think, um, I got most of my questions answered

(46:52) Okay, so now, I did a little bit of research on Netherlands and Holland

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🎙️ Thanks for podcasting with Headliner!

Why don't you leave me a five star rating on iTunes or Spotify

>> Viktoria: Hi, there. Hi, listeners, and welcome to a new episode of Worlds Collide, the podcast where I talk to people who moved abroad. I'm, your host, Victoria, and, of course, I want to say thank you for always tuning in. I appreciate that so much. And before we start, I just wanted to ask you for a quick favorite. So, if you are a frequent listener on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, why don't you leave me a five star rating? or, I mean, if it's not too much to ask for, you could even write a little review why you like the podcast. That would be so appreciated, because that would mean that my podcast would be, more recognized through this whole maze of podcasts out there. And then, of course, don't forget to push the follow button in the corner of your app so you will always be notified when there is a new episode, and you will never miss any. Isn't that nice?

John and Monica moved to Amsterdam a few weeks ago

All right, so now just a brief introduction to today's episode. I have to guess. John and Monica, and they just moved a few weeks ago to Amsterdam. Monica has a business, and therefore, they got the daft visa.

and we will talk about that. A little bit more during our conversation. And so, yeah, listen how their first six weeks have been and why they decided to move there. So listen up. Here it is.

Monica and John from the United States are calling from Amsterdam

>> Viktoria: So my guests today are Monica and John. How are you guys?

>> Monica: We're good.

>> Victoria: Good.

>> Monica: biked through Amsterdam a bit today, which was nice.

>> John: Yeah, it was lovely. Got the real dutch experience with the.

>> Viktoria: Rain when dipping their faces. Yeah. Okay, so that answers already my question. Where are you guys calling from? So how long have you been in Amsterdam?

>> Monica: So we arrived on February 12. so I guess today is April 2. So that would be a month and a few days. Yeah, month and.

>> Viktoria: Wow. So you're super new.

>> Monica: Super new.

>> Viktoria: Super new. so how has it been so far?

>> Monica: Honestly? We love it. Do you have anything to say about that?

>> John: Yeah, so far it's been great.

>> Monica: It's like. I hate to say that we have rose colored glasses, but I think.

>> Viktoria: I think we do.

>> Monica: it's like. It's so charming. We live in a kind of a more modern area, which is really ironic because we wanted to get the old world charm. But, our apartment's quite modern, which can be really nice. but we're from the United States, and we are just, like, enthralled with living here and, like, the ease of living in Europe. and we'll get into that, I'm sure.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

Monica moved from California to Oregon to start a writing business

So where are you from in the US.

>> Monica: So I'm from California originally.

>> Monica: and then I moved to Portland, Oregon, which is on the west coast, and that's where John's from. You're from Oregon?

>> John: I grew up in Eugene, Oregon, and then moved to Portland for college.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> John: And then we met each other sometime later.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh Okay.

>> Monica: Okay.

>> Victoria: So it's pretty far. It's like a nine hour time difference and.

>> Monica: Yep.

>> Victoria: Yeah. It is the other side of the world. Kinda.

>> Monica: Yes.

>> Victoria: but at least like, I mean, Portland has charm, you know?

>> Monica: It does.

>> Victoria: You could have been like from like a completely different place, like super new suburbia, which is only like 20 years old or something. So I feel like you're from a good place.

>> Monica: Yeah, Portland is. I do miss Portland. I loved it there. I think John was a bit tired of it.

>> John: Yeah, I had been there, what, 15 years.

>> Victoria: Okay. I understand that.

>> John: I knew all the cracks in the sidewalk, as they say.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. So you were ready for a change?

>> John: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Is that why you then applied? for a job overseas or like. Because how I understand it from that little tiny bit that I follow Monica on Instagram is like, John found a job abroad and that's why you guys moved?

>> Monica: No, that's not quite what happened. So we, are applying. We're still in the process because it's taking a bit of time, but we're applying for the dutch american friendship treaty visa, which is the daft for short. And so I have a business that I basically am starting here. It's technically already started. and I think, I don't know if other people know a lot about this visa because it's only for Americans and I think other countries might do it too. But basically you just start a business in Netherlands, and then you can sponsor your partner, obviously, so they can come with you. John's looking for work here, but like, I mean, you're kind of looking for the right thing.

>> John: Yeah, I'm not in a hurry since I, have my visa through her, so.

>> Victoria: Right, right. And I mean, like, okay, Amsterdam is a great place because you have probably many options.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> John: Yeah, seems like it.

>> Victoria: Yeah. And what, what do you do, Monica? What is your business?

>> Monica: So I'm actually. Yeah, I'm a writing coach and I specialize in helping writers who over who need to overcome resistance. So.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> Monica: Like procrastination, perfectionism, like writer's block, the things that stop us from being creative. I specialize in helping people who struggle with that. I also specialize with people who are neurodiverse. So, like, working with people who have adhd, like I do.

Okay, so, um, tell me a little bit more about the visa

>> Victoria: Okay, so, tell me a little bit more about the visa because I know there is something similar in the US, but then you need like, an actual investment. Like you have to buy some property or something. But that doesn't sound like it. It sounds like you can just work remotely and need an office.

>> Monica: and you just have a few other things like that. But overall, the process is quite simple. It's a relatively easy visa. You don't have to have, like, property. You don't have to, like, get an office. I did have to get like a virtual, like, mailbox for some reason. That's, I don't know if that's normal. but it was all relatively easy.

>> Victoria: Okay. And then you get like, the visa, and it's valid for how many years?

>> Monica: Two years. So you have two years. and then you can re up it after two years. And then after that you can apply for permanent residency.

>> Victoria: Okay. All right. I mean, and first, I guess you just see how it goes or what's the plan?

>> Monica: Yeah, I think we're still figuring out what we want to do. I don't know if we're going to stay here or not. I imagine we'll probably want to. The one nice thing is that I have italian citizenship or not italian citizenship. I have italian ancestry. And so I am actually working on getting italian citizenship through ancestry. But it's going to take, like, a really long time.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, had an episode about this, actually. My guest she's working for, or her company is actually to help people to get that paperwork done because, like, all of the name changes from your ancestors. She said, like, giuseppe, turns into John. So it's like, yeah, you're eye rolling. I can see this.

>> Monica: It's just such a pain in the butt. Like, my m ancestor, like, was born Ricardo and then, like, just changed his name to Richard.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> Monica: And we have to do all these, like, you know, all this different stuff to, like, prove that I'm. It's just a whole thing.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I guess it's a long process with lots of, like, paperwork.

>> Monica: Yes. So eventually I'll get that passport. but he'll have to learn Italian to get his.

>> Victoria: Ah. okay.

>> John: Which is kind of funny. Cause she doesn't have to learn Italian.

>> Monica: Just me, just my spouse.

>> Victoria: Okay, but you have still some time. But you could just get, like, You guys are married, right?

>> Monica: Right.

>> John: Yeah. I could get, like, a spouse visa wherever we go. Yeah, but it would be nice to have my own.

>> Victoria: Sure, sure. Yeah, it is. It is. Because then you're not, like, so dependent. Trust me, I have made the experience.

>> Monica: so.

Why did you guys decide on Amsterdam for so many reasons

>> Victoria: And why did you guys decide on Amsterdam?

>> Monica: Ah, it's funny. We didn't technically decide on it, so we decided on the Netherlands for so many reasons. but we ended up getting an agent to help us find housing because, uh-huh. The Netherlands just does have a bit of a housing crisis, and we were told it would be really hard to find a place and start searching immediately. we got an agent and we were like, oh, we don't really care where we live. We're open to whatever city. And then she just found us a place in Amsterdam, and we got it, like, quickly. So, like, we didn't technically choose Amsterdam. We had always just assumed that it would be too hard to get a place here, but then it worked out.

>> Victoria: Right, but have you been there before?

>> Monica: I have. I had. He had not.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> John: Yeah. But, you know, I saw lots of photos and videos, and I knew it would be charming, and it definitely is.

>> Victoria: What did you expect?

>> John: I expected lots of canals and old buildings and rainy weather.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> John: We were used to rainy weather, though.

>> Monica: We are used to rainy weather. We're very used to this weather, because oregon, like, Portland, is rainy all year, and from November to June, honestly, so it's not a shock for us.

>> Victoria: Yeah. So the weather is fine.

>> Monica: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we moved to the Netherlands for a lot of reasons. We had considered Portugal and Spain, and ultimately, like, we tried Spain, and the visa just didn't work out because of some very strange rules that they have with their visa, with the digital nomad visa. And then we ended up just, like, pivoting to the Netherlands, because of the visa they have with the daft. And it's funny because, like, john is more interested in, like, a sunny place to live, but, like, that's not what we ended up with. I don't mind the rain, but I I don't think you mind, though, that much.

>> John: No, it's. It's. It's nice enough.

>> Victoria: Yeah, well, you can.

>> John: I like riding my bike around, so.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Well, summer is around the corner, so hopefully you have a few nice months. But you never know. Like, sometimes the summer is just rainy, but sometimes the summer is also super hot.

So how long were you thinking about moving abroad? Because you just said

So how long were you, like, thinking about moving abroad? Because you just said, like, you wanted to try another country first. So is it something you always thought of?

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Victoria: So, uh-huh.

>> Monica: That. I think that's when we kind of got more serious.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: So fun row was overturned, and then there was the move abroad coach.

>> Victoria: Oh, there's a move abroad coach.

>> John: So where does the story start? We had seen an advertisement for this, like, course we could take online on going over how to move to a different country, and we're like, sure, let's sign up and see what it's about. And just really fell in love with the concept and got started working with them more intensely on, you know, how to choose a destination and what are the pros and cons of destinations. And then we also get into, like, how to find jobs if you want a remote job or a job on the ground. So. Yeah, really cool.

>> Monica: It was very helpful. I feel like that's what got us really serious.

>> Victoria: Okay. then you knew, like, how to. How to actually do it or, like.

>> Monica: Technically, it felt like it was just a dream before that.

>> Monica: Yeah, it was like, oh, this is impossible. We want to do it.

>> Victoria: And, John, have you been to Europe before?

>> John: Yeah, a couple times. I have been to, Rome and France, and we actually did our honeymoon in London.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> John: Scotland. So.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Monica: Been around.

>> Victoria: But it was always for vacation. It was not for longer stays. All right, so you knew a little bit what to expect, but not really.

>> John: Yeah, a little. I mean, I have this problem with, getting stuck in research mode, so I definitely did a ton of research before we pulled the trigger. So I had seen, like, all the videos on Amsterdam and all the. All the blogs and websites.

>> Monica: Yep. Yeah, all of them.

>> Victoria: It's like, Amsterdam to me is always super famous, right. For. Back then it was famous because you could smoke pot legally in the coffee shops. Now it doesn't really. I don't know. Doesn't really matter. But it's, like, so charming. But it's also still so little.

>> Monica: It is, yeah. It's funny because, like, in Oregon, you can also smoke weed, so, like, it didn't. That wasn't a big draw for us.

>> Victoria: Yeah, no, yeah, yeah.

>> Monica: it is very little. It was just nice. It's so different from the US where everything is sprawling, you know? It's very, very different. But, yeah. You like it?

>> John: I do, yeah.

>> Monica: Yeah.

So what has been your experience so far? How was settling in Amsterdam

>> Victoria: So what has been your experience so far? How was settling in?

>> Monica: Honestly, it was really wonderful until, like, our bodies had to adjust. So I got sick, like, within a week of arriving, and then a week later he got sick, and then I got sick from what he got. And, like, I'm still recovering, like, the cough I have, like, I think I have walking pneumonia, which I'm taking antibiotics, which is wonderful. But it's just like, our bodies did struggle a bit. Like, we kind of went a bit too hard, I think the first year.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> John: We were kind of non stop for the first couple weeks. We were excited, going places and buying things for the apartment, trying to get settled and pushed, maybe pushed ourselves too much.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: So did you bring your things from Portland or did.

>> Monica: We brought, like, suitcases, but that was it.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Monica: we got very lucky. Like, we, the apartment that we chose, the girl who was moving out wanted to sell, like, most of her furniture to us.

>> Victoria: Sure.

>> Monica: So we just bought all that.

>> Monica: and then we had a few other things. We got, like, I had. I got a desk and stuff, but it was really easy. Like, we arrived and there was already the couch and a kitchen table and stuff. and then we got a bed. Just, like, boring, logistical stuff.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that helps.

>> Monica: It really helps. That's actually really common here. Apparently, like, a lot of people will just sell their stuff because they don't.

>> Victoria: Want to move it.

>> Monica: It's quite expensive to move it.

>> Victoria: Yeah. And there are also always, I don't know, in Amsterdam, but furbished apartments for.

>> Monica: Rent, we weren't able to get that, because we have cats. so that's one thing about, like, having pets, because, like, there's a housing crisis here, so landlords can be quite picky. M so if you have pets, like, you're not gonna be able to get something furbish.

>> Victoria: Right. And so did your cats. Was it just easy to take them. Did you get a visa for the cats as well?

>> Monica: I wouldn't call it easy. So it was. It was fine. I mean, it was. It was weird because, like, you have to get, like, basically the certified, like, certificate to show, like, of health ten days before you leave. So I don't know if this is how it is in other countries, but in the US at least.

>> Monica: You have to, like, take your cat to the vet within ten days. Like, not business days, like ten actual days before you leave. And then they have to, like, send that certificate to the USDA and they have to sign off that your cats are healthy enough to travel. You have to get that back, and then you take that with you on the flight. That was probably the most stressful part, only because of, like, the really tight timeline. But it was fine. I mean, ultimately it worked out. our cats weren't thrilled to be on the plane. They were not the happiest kitties, so we drugged them with some gabapentin. And, like, I highly recommend doing that if you ever travel with cats. And, like, even the flight was 10 hours, and after 5 hours, they woke up and were meowing and it was quite annoying. But it is what it is.

>> Victoria: Oh, wait, they were in on the seats with you?

>> Monica: Yeah, they were under the seats.

>> Victoria: Oh, I thought they were like, where they have all the pants.

>> Monica: No, it would have been really nice to not have them up in my face meowing the whole time. But yes, they were under the seats in front of us. we also had, like, puppy, like, pee pads, which was a lifesaver because my. So one of our cats is older, he's 16, and he did pee on the flight, and we didn't even know because the puppy pee pads absorbed it.

>> Victoria: Oh, that is good because it can be really stingy, huh?

>> Monica: yeah, we didn't smell a thing.

>> Victoria: Oh, that's good.

>> Monica: Yeah. So anybody listening? Get some. Get some puppy pee pads for under your cat.

>> Victoria: That's a good advice. Yes.

You got the apartment and everything settled in, what else did you have to take care of

So you got the apartment and everything settled in, and then what else did you have to take care of?

>> Monica: So we had to get bank accounts. We ended up choosing bunk because you don't have to have a BSN, for like, 60 days.

>> Victoria: I don't know what that is.

>> Monica: It's like the Social Security number. we also had to get our biometrics done, so, like, fingerprints and such. and then we have our appointment on this Thursday, actually, to get our, like, official Social Security numbers, basically for here. And then after that, we have to, like, get phone numbers. Like, basically we're still in the process of, like, getting stuff, and it's already been like, you know, a month and a half, so it just takes time.

>> Monica: But yeah, I mean, like, just lots of boring. Like, you don't realize what you do in life until you move and you're like, oh, right, I have all these things that I have to do. Yeah, your phone number, your utilities, your, like, Internet. Like every, like, everything is like, oh, yeah, I have to deal with that. And I have to, like, set it up here. Yeah, yeah, but we, I mean, it was relatively easy. Everybody was really kind.

>> Victoria: and you guys, I mean, it's Amsterdam, so, I mean, I I've been there a bunch of times, and the dutch people, they speak English in general. Fine, right? So you. Yeah, come back. You get by.

>> Monica: Yeah, we do get by. We've had, like, a few situations where people say, like, they don't, but then somebody in the area will and will help us translate. it's been fine. I mean, we want to learn Dutch. It's very strange. Like, in Amsterdam, people are just like, oh, you don't need to learn it. Like, English is fine. And I'm like, okay, but like, I want to learn it. Like, I want to be respectful of the culture, you know, and, like, actually learn their language. So I plan to take some classes.

>> Victoria: Yeah, you want to take some classes. Just, as, like, something like a community college evening, probably.

>> John: Yeah, we had heard about some free ones offered by the city or something.

>> Monica: And, yeah, and that's also, like, you know, if, if the italian citizenship doesn't work out, which it probably will, but if it doesn't, like, we can, you know, like, learn Dutch in the next couple years and then get our.

>> Victoria: Yeah, and I think it should be besides the pronunciation, because it's kind of rough. Right. With, but I mean, there are so many words that are, like, from the english language.

>> Monica: Yes. Dutch is a really cool language. I don't know why I get so much hate. Like, I see people hating on it all the time, and I really, it's at least, like, on, if you're, like, scrolling social media, right. I see people be like, oh, it's such a gross language. And I'm like, it's love. I love the Dutch language. Like, it's, it's such a cool language.

>> Victoria: Do they say it because of the.

>> Monica: Probably, yeah, probably.

>> Victoria: I mean, it sounds rough, but I mean, I'm from Germany, so my language also sounds kind of rough. And also like, when I went to the Netherlands, everybody speaks German as well. So, you know, it was always like, they speak. They speak all the languages. They already speak English, they speak German and they speak Dutch and they speak a lot.

>> Monica: It's very different from where we're from, where everybody's like, you need to learn English.

>> Victoria: But I always thought they, they learned English. I mean, school, sure. But also they have the movies. They. They're not subbed.

>> Monica: That would be.

>> Victoria: I know they're not dubbed. Sorry. so it was always, like, when they watched something, they just had subtitles, and that's how they just got really comfortable with speaking it.

>> John: Yeah, sounds about right.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: I feel like, people like to speak English. Like, it's funny, we had a. We, like, met with a friend a couple weeks ago, and he was like, yeah, people are very proud of the fact that they speak English, so they want English with you. And I'm like, oh, okay. That's interesting.

How did you meet people through Facebook groups and Bumblebeeff

>> Victoria: And how has it been, like, so far with your social life?

>> Monica: I think that's why we got sick, because I went really hard the first few weeks trying to make friends and stuff and such. We met some really awesome people already. What do you think? For the most part?

>> Victoria: How did you meet them?

>> John: Facebook groups.

>> Monica: Facebook groups.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Monica: bumble BFF. it's quite sparse for men. but for women, there's more people. I met quite a few people on Bumblebeeff, and then we. Yeah, we did the Facebook groups and some people came in through that. and then, like, this is very random, but I, like, in my business, I was running ads.

>> Monica: And, like, a bunch of people saw that I live in Amsterdam and, like, reached out and were like, can we meet?

>> Victoria: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Monica: It's just very interesting how people find you.

>> Victoria: Okay. And then, did you guys. And then you met in person, too?

>> Monica: Yeah. Yeah. So we've met a few people in person.

>> Victoria: just for the other listeners, if they are, like, lonely. So did you actually then go meet them at a bar or did, like, go to a park?

>> Monica: Yeah, I think, like, you have to just make an effort and you have to, like, force yourself to follow up a lot.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: Because, like, it's very easy to just be like, yeah, let's meet. And then you, like, ghost each other, like, kind of on accident and, like, maybe forget to follow up, which happens like it's life. But I tried to make an effort to be like, let's meet. Let's do this. Like. Like, if somebody says, let's meet. I'll be like, how about this. This coffee shop on this day, at this time? Like, I'm just, like, very quick about it, because I just. I want to make friends.

>> Victoria: Yeah, you want to make friends. Yeah, exactly. But the people you meet, are they usually from anywhere or are they.

>> Monica: Let's see. So most of them, I think we've met maybe a few dutch people. It's been a mix. Yeah. So one, couple we met, she was from Italy, he was from. From here. And then I met somebody who was from Portugal but lived here, like, also everywhere, honestly, all over the world.

I tried to write letters to our neighbors to, like, try to get neighbors

>> Victoria: All right, all right. Okay. But you also still are very new, so it takes time.

>> Monica: Yes.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah, it does.

>> Monica: I tried to write letters to our neighbors to, like, try to get neighbors to talk to us, and, like, nobody.

>> Victoria: How is that process? I'm curious.

>> Monica: Nobody has messaged me back.

>> Monica: I just do that, like, anywhere I live because having good neighbors is always really helpful.

>> Monica: But, like, you know, the Dutch can be kind of, like, to themselves, if that's, like, kind of the stereotype. and, you know, I think I'll try again with a few other neighbors, but, like, I sent them to the ones closest to our apartment, and I'll try for other ones, but, like, you know, they're just, they're just more reserved.

>> Victoria: Are they younger or are they older or.

>> Monica: I have no idea.

>> Victoria: You have no idea? You haven't even seen them?

>> John: her next door neighbor seems like our age, maybe.

>> Monica: Seems our age.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> John: He's been very friendly. I just think he doesn't speak much English, so all he said is, welcome.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> John: Hello.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: And how do you people react to you guys being from America? Do they assume a lot of stereotypical stuff?

>> Monica: No, I haven't had.

>> John: I haven't read anything. Yeah, people seem very nice.

>> Monica: People are super nice. And I will say, like, you know, sometimes I'll be like, yeah, I'm from the US, unfortunately. Like, I'll, like, you know, self replicate a little. but everyone's been very kind, honestly. Like, I haven't had any, anybody be really weird about it ever. Have you?

>> John: No.

>> Monica: No, no.

>> John: Most people think I'm Dutch.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Oh, really?

>> John: Because I'm really tall.

>> Victoria: Oh, you're really tall? Yes. So you fit in?

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: yeah. So you feel very just like, all right, I belong.

>> John: You're comfortable walking around until somebody talks to me, and then I'm like, sorry.

>> Victoria: Yeah. That's always why I don't like the Netherlands, because I'm really small and I'm like, everybody is like a giant.

>> John: That was one thing I noticed is, like, I don't feel special anymore because everyone's my height.

>> Monica: Okay, so in the US, I was the tall guy. Okay.

>> Victoria: Not anymore. Yeah, the Dutch are tall people.

M John, is the application process different in the Netherlands than in the US

M John, since you are kind of in the middle of looking for work, is the application process different than in the US?

>> John: well, so not really. Since I'm a software engineer, I think it's a very international type of skill to bring. And so a lot of the places I've talked, I've talked about to is, are very international environments, and they have people from all over the world. And, the main language is English.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> John: So for me, I don't feel like the process has been much different.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Monica: Have they asked for, like, a cv with, like, your picture or anything like that?

>> John: No, not really.

>> Victoria: Okay. Okay. I was curious because, like, I know in Germany they also ask for the picture. I'm not sure. In the Netherlands, I think they, they.

>> Monica: Don'T as much here, but.

>> John: No, but also, like, in tech, they often ask for your LinkedIn anyway, and that's where my photo is.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they know.

>> John: Kind of expect people to look at your LinkedIn.

>> Victoria: uh-huh

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> John: It's probably covered by that.

>> Monica: I feel like the job market for software engineers is pretty good. Yeah. I feel like you've gotten a lot of bites. You have recruiters reach out to you all the time.

>> John: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Okay. So just. You're just gonna pick the best grape. Yeah.

>> Monica: I mean, you know, you still have to, like, you know, interview and, like.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: A lot of times you have to do, like a take home, you know, assessment.

>> John: Yeah. Sometimes they'll have you build something at home to see how you build software.

>> Victoria: Okay. I talk about it.

>> John: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Okay. So it's almost like, it's like a test, kind of. Yeah. Yeah, sure. That makes sense.

Have you guys figured out the difference between Netherlands and Holland

And so. And have you guys figured out the difference between Netherlands and Holland?

>> Monica: Yeah, so they said, they say that Holland is part of the Netherlands. It's like a section, whereas, like, the Netherlands is just like the whole country. That's what we've been told. There's probably more intricacies to it.

>> Victoria: Do you know which section?

>> Monica: Because I think Holland is more north. Right.

>> John: Northwestern, the big cities.

>> Victoria: But is it a state? No, it's not a state. Right.

>> John: M. no, it just refers to, like, an area.

>> Monica: Like, I think technically Amsterdam is in North Holland. Right. Yeah, yeah.

>> Victoria: And, but it doesn't have also something to do with, the royals with the queen, maybe.

>> Monica: I've never. I haven't heard that. It's so funny. I always forget that there's royalty here.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Monica: It's like, just nobody talks about it, except I guess there's gonna be a holiday.

>> Victoria: I mean, the only famous royals are the windsors, right?

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: I mean, but the other ones have some. But, I mean, it's not as present or something. Yeah, because that's what I always thought. Like, Holland has something to do with the royals, and I have no idea. I gotta look it up later so I can. I don't seem so dumb. I will, like, add this to the end of the podcast episode, just to clarify.

Is there anything cliche that you like about living in Europe

So what it is, I asked this before, like, expectations wise, but is there, like, anything, like, cliche that is, like, true or not true?

>> Monica: Yeah, I mean, the cliche, I think that is definitely true, is that everybody bikes everywhere.

>> Monica: which is so nice. Like, we finally got bikes and, like, we biked around all day, like, doing our errands, and it was so easy and help and nice. I think. Are there any other questions?

>> Victoria: Everything is flat.

>> Monica: Everything is really flat. And like, the bikes, like, everything's built. Built so well for bikes that I don't feel unsafe, which is so nice because that's just not the reality in a lot of american cities. what else? Other cliches have been very true.

>> John: I think the one time we experienced dutch directness was that, the store, when we're asking about hooks, like some hooks to stick on the wall, like, hey, do you have these kinds of hooks with the sticky backs? And the girl was just like, no, we don't have this. We're like, oh, thanks. Okay. Like, in the US, usually the person working would try to sell you on something else.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> John: They'd be like, no, come look at this thing over here. It could possibly work for you. So, yeah, that's that.

>> Monica: Yeah. I do actually really like how direct they are, because sometimes, like, you just don't know how to read people's body language that well. Or like, read what they're actually saying. And I. It's just easier if they're just like, no. Or yes. You know?

>> Victoria: Because I don't waste your time.

>> John: Yes, exactly.

>> Monica: I don't know, I feel like, It's just a cliche of, like, it's so charming and gorgeous.

>> John: Yeah, it is.

>> Monica: It's ridiculous. Like, you'll. It's just so beautiful.

>> John: Maybe, I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but even just riding around today and seeing the canals and the old buildings and the windmills and stuff, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm in a fairy tale here.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I remember always, like, there are a lot of secondhand markets.

>> Monica: Yes. Yeah.

>> Victoria: And, what else? People live on houseboats.

>> Monica: Yeah, we noticed that, too. In the canals.

>> John: Yeah.

>> Monica: Yeah. It's interesting because, like, I hear that, like, Europeans find it really annoying when Americans, like, have these rose colored glasses on when it comes to Europe, and they're like, oh. But, like, you know, like, they, they find it very annoying when you're constantly talking about how amazing Europe is. But when you're from America and it's a fucking shit show. Sorry, it's a shit. And when it's a shit show, I'll try not to cuss. it really is, like, so much better to live here. Like, it's. I don't even know how to describe how much better it is. And I, like, like, in Portland, for example, like, there have been, like, two shootings near our houses when we lived there, you know, and just. It just. I just feel a lot safer. and that's definitely a cliche I think is very accurate, is that it's very safe here.

>> Victoria: Okay. And, what is there that you don't like? Is there anything.

>> Monica: The housing crisis. Yeah, that's the hardest part. I think it can be very stressful to imagine, like, if we stay here, you know, when we buy a house, like, what's that gonna look like? And, like, it's just. That's probably the most stressful part because, like, it's. It's your housing. It's such an important thing. what do you think?

>> Victoria: But is it in terms of that there are a lot of homeless people on the streets or it's more expensive and that it's more than expired.

>> Monica: Yeah, it's expensive. I mean, like, it's.

>> Victoria: It's.

>> Monica: We're paying very similar amount to what we paid in Portland, but, like, we, you know, I think it's. It's just more stressful because, like, landlords have more power in general, so. But that's probably, like, something you don't have to work deal with, like, all the time. You deal with it, like, when you move. Right.

>> Victoria: I think that's, I think a cultural thing as well, I feel. Because I feel Americans, they more want to own a house, and versus in Europe, a lot of people are just renting and they don't care if they own.

>> Monica: Yeah, it's funny. We owned, twice in the US. And I hated owning.

>> Victoria: Honestly, I'm with you. I hate it too.

>> Monica: I don't, it's not fun. It's, I mean, it's just so much responsibility and like, I will say we tend to like not really like settle. We don't know how to settle.

>> John: We just, I think we moved every year for the first, what, six years of our relationship.

>> Victoria: Oh, yeah, but like in, within Portland.

>> Monica: No, like we moved, we moved within Portland, but then we moved to New York for a minute. and then we moved back to Portland and then, you know, here, like we just, we get bored moving around.

I think some people are scared of change. I think that's like the opposite of us

>> Victoria: Yeah, so, okay, so maybe you get bored from Amsterdam in two years too, because it's so small.

>> Monica: Maybe, maybe. I think if anything, like, I don't know, we maybe get bored of our neighborhood. Like, I think we're just, honestly, we're kind of addicted to change. I think like some people are very scared of change. I think that's like the opposite of us.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Monica: Some truth, you know, it's kept things interesting.

Is there anything that you miss about America that you don't miss

>> Victoria: but is there anything that you miss so far?

>> Monica: I definitely miss Portland. It's a beautiful city. I miss parts of Portland, like the trees, the hiking, the nature. But I don't miss America whatsoever. I don't miss really anything about America other than if I could put Portland here.

>> Victoria: But do you like it? You don't like America because of politics.

>> Monica: Or,

>> Victoria: If you take politics aside.

>> Monica: I think it's the way of life. So when we were like the US, the politics are obviously a hot mess, but there's so many more things that are hard. So for example, the work culture is really messed up there.

>> Monica: I'm sure in some, you know, european cities there's more of a workaholic culture. But like in the US, like the workaholism and the expectations from companies is insane.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I know. My husband also works for tech and so he comes home and sometimes it's like, oh wait, I just got an important email.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: You know, but that is not always the case.

>> Monica: Yeah, I think like, I mean John, you were working like twelve hour days. Like the expectation was just like constantly working and like, did you work for a startup?

>> Victoria: it sounds like a startup.

>> John: You call it a scale up because it was, you know, there were a thousand people.

>> Monica: Okay.

>> John: But it was still very, a very intense environment. Uh-huh as a software engineer, they have what's called on call shifts. So in the morning and you have to go fix something at two in the morning.

>> Victoria: Oh, that sucks. And no, they should not have it. I would not work for that.

>> John: Yeah.

>> Monica: I mean, that was, like, something that they threw on you that you had no choice but to do. Yeah.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> John: The environment changed to that.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> John: And that's actually when they lost a lot of people.

>> Monica: But I bet.

>> Victoria: I bet. Yeah.

>> Monica: I mean, there's no protections in the US. That's the thing. Like, there's quite literally no worker protections in many, many states. And so, like, your employer can just do whatever they want. Like, and then you have these situations where, like, they make you go on call or, like, you end up, you know, getting fired for, like, no reason or whatever it is, and there's just no, like, vacation time built in. Like, there's a lot of reasons why burnout happens very quickly. and that's one of the reasons I decided to start my own business, because I. So I can on my own schedule, which has been really wonderful. But, you know, I think watching you get really burned out, I was like, it's time for us to just leave and, like, try something different with our lives because, you know, you were, like, suffering for, like, a year and a half until you finally left.

>> Victoria: What is the vacation time in the Netherlands?

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah.

>> Monica: I mean, that's.

>> Victoria: There's.

>> Monica: It's zero in the US, you know.

>> John: Like, there's none legally mandated.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I know, but some companies have it. If you work for a nice company, they give you some. Yeah, yeah.

>> Monica: If you work for a good company, they'll give you some.

>> John: I think there's a strange kind of political thing that happens in tech where, like, they'll tell you you have unlimited vacation, but then if you take some time off, your team starts to look at you badly for not contributing, for a while, and so it turns into nobody taking time off ever.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Like, this peer pressure, kind of bullying, almost feeling.

>> John: Yeah, it's kind of terrible.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: I mean, I think that's just how it is in a lot of workaholic cultures. Like, it's just, like, you had to have to work, work, work, and, like, you don't really have a choice, otherwise you're seen as a problem.

>> Victoria: Mm.

>> John: So, yeah, so there's that.

>> Monica: There's that.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: I mean, I did. I don't think the whole of the US is awful. There is, like, the car culture is more annoying than people think. it's more community based here. Cause, like, there's walkable cities, right? Like, you can walk around and bike around whereas, like, that's just not a thing in the US. I'm sorry. If you can hear our cat meowing, she's having some feelings, but yeah, it's like the car centric nature makes it hard to have community. and there's this concept of like, a third place is very important for community building. Right. But that's not really a thing in the US. I think right now. third places don't really exist anymore and it's just different in the Netherlands. Like, you do feel sense of camaraderie when you're just like, walking around the city for hours because you can't, you know. Is there anything you missed about the US?

>> John: Only the trees. Like, the trees and the nature. There's some really beautiful nature, for sure.

>> Victoria: Yeah. I mean, you can go to the beach.

>> Monica: Yeah, we can go to the beach. They have some beautiful parks here. It's just not quite like, as wild, I would say.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: You know, as, as like, parts of the US.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: But it's still beautiful in many ways. Like, there's still a lot of green. they still have lots of parks. It's very, like, family friendly here, surprisingly.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I heard that.

>> John: yeah, just riding my bike around and how often I'll see just like a giant park built for children or an outdoor gym to work out or a soccer field. It's like everywhere.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> John: Surprising and comforting, honestly.

Are you planning on visiting your family soon? Maybe your family will

>> Victoria: And so are you guys planning on visiting, your family?

>> Monica: Eventually, but, since you just got.

>> Victoria: There, you might just go for the holidays anytime soon.

>> Monica: It'll probably be a while. hopefully my family will visit us at some point here. Maybe your family will, depending.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> John: We're kind of trying to inspire them to visit us.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: Yes. I don't know, it's just like, we'll have to see them, like this year ultimately, or.

>> Victoria: Ah, yeah, but I mean, you're in a nice place, so they can come visit and then they have plenty to do.

>> Monica: Yes, yes.

>> John: And there is a direct flight from Portland, right where my family is. So they can come straight here.

>> Victoria: Yeah. It's so new. Is there still some products? What do you think? Oh, I wish I had whatever, my whatever chocolate bar or something.

>> Monica: I mean, there's definitely been like some skincare that I miss that was, you know, like, you get used to the products that you use where you live and then suddenly you're like, oh, that doesn't exist. And everything is in Dutch. And I'm like, what does this mean? What is this? But for the most part, we haven't missed a ton. Like, have you missed any, like, particular products from the US?

>> John: No, no, I don't use many products, so.

>> Monica: Men? Yeah, I mean, like, I. There are some skincare brands that, like.

>> Victoria: Because.

>> Monica: So, we're both vegan, you know, and we try to. I try to support, like, you know, vegan skincare products, like, relative, like, don't test on animals, things like that. And I just don't know what those products are here. So I'm like, okay, I'll just, like, see what I can find. but I don't know. I think, like, I don't really miss anything crazy. The supermarkets here are really, really nice. lots of different options, and the produce is great.

>> Victoria: Have you found your new favorite dutch product or thing? Food?

>> Monica: yeah, probably too many. We have, like, they have, like, chocolate rice cakes here.

>> Monica: I don't know if that's, like, a thing in other countries.

>> Victoria: they also have the round ones. Yes. They're usually really plain ones, the kind of dry ones. Oh, yeah. They do have them in caramel and everything, too. Right.

>> Monica: So tasty. Then they also, like the Dutch very, like, potatoes a lot. And there's just, like, a ton of, like, prepared potatoes, which is super nice.

>> Victoria: Right, right. The fries, they have, like, the dutch sauce, right?

>> Monica: Yes. Which is really.

>> Victoria: I don't know if that is vegan, though, because I think it's, like, mayonnaise based or something. They might have it in vegan.

>> Monica: There's a lot of, like, vegan options. In Amsterdam.

>> Victoria: Yeah. In Amsterdam, yeah.

>> Monica: What other top products are you liking?

>> John: Margot's is coming to mind.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: It's like a bake bakery that we go to.

>> John: Pastry stock, amazing pastries. Yes.

>> Monica: Just thinking about it is making me hungry. Yeah, we're still figuring things out, too.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

So do you feel like already, uh, settling is almost done

So do you feel like already, settling is almost done?

>> Monica: I think the logistics, like, are still kind of up in the air, because we still have to, like, just do boring things, like, get our BSN Thursday and then, like, use that to get this and that. Like, it's just various, like, boring logistics. But, like, if you're thinking of, like, oh, I feel settled as, like, here. I feel very settled, and I would be, like, very surprised if I couldn't stay. Like, I already feel like this is home for me.

>> Victoria: Okay. Yeah, yeah.

>> John: After getting really sick for a couple weeks, I was like, okay, I'm home now.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> John: On the couch watching Netflix for almost two weeks.

>> Victoria: Just like, oh, my God, that's a long time.

>> John: That's, you know, a marker that this is home.

>> Monica: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: It was not fun getting sick so much. It was just, like, back to back. We were just dealing with stuff which, like new germs, you know, makes sense, but it was really.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. New germs. And it's. It's still, like, cold there, I guess, especially, like, beginning of march.

>> John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Monica: I mean, it's been a bit cold. Yeah.

>> John: It's warming up a little, but the rain is still very here. very rainy.

>> Victoria: But you're used to it, right? So it's okay.

>> Monica: We are.

>> Victoria: There is, like, no bad weather. It's just bad clothing.

>> Monica: That's what they say here.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Monica: Yes.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah.

All right. I think, um, I got most of my questions answered

All right. I think, I got most of my questions. Yeah.

>> Victoria: Awesome. Yes. Thank you for taking your time. No, sorry. I always say this wrong. Thank you for taking the time. Yes.

>> Victoria: That was Monica St. John's interview, and we recorded this about a month ago, so I think by now, they have finished all their boring errands. And thanks again for the great tips, Monica, if you want to move abroad with a cat. So that was great.

Okay, so now, I did a little bit of research on Netherlands and Holland

Okay, so now, I did a little bit of research. I did a little bit of googling for the difference between Netherlands and Holland. So, okay, the Hollands south and north are just provinces, whereas the kingdom of the Netherlands is the country, but the big cities Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and the Hague are in the Hollands. And it's just very popular with foreigners to call it Holland, even though officially, it's the kingdom of the Netherlands. Okay, so we clarified this, and now I wanted to ask you, the listener, if you have any questions that you would like me to ask my guests. So if you do, then please let me know and send me an email at worldscollide. One, two, three. Podmail.com. Or reach out to me on instagram at worldscollidepod or threads or. Or even TikTok. Actually, I'm not 100% sure how to reach out on TikTok, but you can find me there. Anyway, this was it for this week. Thank you so much for tuning in. I appreciate it so much, and I hope you will tune in again next week. And before I forget, the next few episodes that are coming up are actually stories about countries, or stories from my guests who've been to countries that we not have yet talked about in the podcast. So this is super exciting, and I hope you tune in for this next week. And the week after. And the week after. So, yeah, that was it. And, yeah, I hope to hear you again next week. Bye.