In this episode of The Build Up Podcast —Tom Milham of TCM Air Conditioning Services opens the books on how a one-engineer business actually finds work. He started his apprenticeship at 16 and went out on his own six years ago; today roughly 70% of what he does is subcontracted, and he is not afraid to say so. There is a stigma about it in the trade, and his answer is simple: he is feeding his family, the money is coming in and the customer gets a good service. What he and Dan pull at all episode is how you market your way out of that dependency when the budgets everyone talks about online are numbers a small business will never have.

Tom is refreshingly straight about what has not worked. Eighteen months paying a lead generation service produced nothing usable — the one enquiry he remembers was somebody wanting a hole drilled through a wall for a portable unit’s hose. Dan matches him with the £12k dissident put into Google ads that came back with nothing, and an agency who mentioned afterwards that it takes about twelve months to kick in. A couple of hundred quid boosting a Facebook post was just as wishy-washy. What has worked is the unglamorous stuff: Screwfix Live and the Installer Show, cards handed over and passed on, and Instagram — where at least 80% of his subcontracting work comes from.

The idea at the centre of it comes from his tattooist, who fills a feed with black and white work and then wonders why nobody books colour: only show what you want to do. Tom is caught in exactly that trap, because a feed built on his own face on the tools is why contractors ring him and homeowners do not. Along the way he and Dan map what each channel should actually be doing — LinkedIn for facilities management, Facebook for domestic, Instagram for the trade, TikTok for apprentices — and get into the £2k-to-£15k website gap with nothing in the middle, the mismatched logos on the van, why construction’s one-up mentality will get you thrown to the wolves over a detail in the corner of a photo, and the free marketing nobody is doing, starting with the sign-written van most tradespeople are still sleeping on. Plus the two things he would tell anyone starting out: charge what you are worth, and get used to other people making their problems yours.

FOLLOW TCM AIR CONDITIONING SERVICES

Website: https://tcmairconditioning.co.uk/

Tom Milham (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/tcmairconditionigservices/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tcmairconditioningservices/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tcmairconditioningservices/

Stay connected with dissident creative agency:

https://linktr.ee/dissidentagency

Subscribe now and don’t miss future episodes of The Build Up Podcast!

kind of think it's like fight or flight, like two months down the line.

I could be gone, So a lot of my stuff is subcontracted.

I'm not afraid to say that

charge what you're worth and market yourself

A lot of people undersell themselves, only show.

What you want to do is massively

Okay. Wicked. Tom, thank you so much for being on the build up.

The first recording of the build up for series two.

Although it might not necessarily be the first one that's released. Who knows?

Yeah. First one in this new studio space, which I'm excited about.

We'll see if there's not too many kind of quiet shots and things like that for the

for the viewers at home.

Thank you so much for coming on, mate.

Before we get into like the topics and stuff today, can you tell us a little bit

about yourself, a little about your background and what you do?

What TCM.

So, I mean, TCM is just a small air conditioning business of like the south

east of England, just like just outside of London.

You know, just take on sort of any sort of like, repairs, maintenance, installation,

like anything to do with, like, aircon is sort of like I sort of dip my toe into a

little bit of everything.

I like to think of it as

sort of like take on whatever I can, but with like a family business feel kind of

thing.

So like, usually if you speak to me or Chris in the office, like you're going to

get.

You're most likely going to get me on, on the job, you know, that sort of thing.

So I like to kind of keep it small.

But then, you know, room to grow.

You know, I would like to, but. Yeah. Yeah.

How long you've been in the industry for?

So in the industry since I was 16.

So, like, you know, I started apprenticeship and then moved up from,

like, you know, job to job to job.

And then started my own thing CD six years ago. So.

So, yeah, six years in in self-employment. Yes. Yeah. Talk to me about the business.

What what, what what states the business in at the moment give us like a snapshot

of kind of what the business looks like in terms of you don't have to give me like

specific numbers, but how you're operating and and how you feel like that's going so

recently, you know, ended up just I got really proud of myself.

I got like a bigger van, like it's that thing of like, sort of I was working out

of a small transit and

everyone's like to make your van, so like loaded. It's so, like full.

Got so much stuff.

I'm sort of like the subcontractor or just like, just in general, the guy that's got

most of the stuff on the van to get you out of trouble.

So I've got a bigger van with like, obviously like I can move around it a lot

better, take on more stuff.

And the state of the business now is, is like, I'm in like a seesaw position

where it will be like super busy, like more than, more than one person.

And then and then basically I'll just get overwhelmed with work.

you know, it's not easy doing it.

But the state of the business is looking to grow.

I'm sort of like I wouldn't say stuck as, like a one engineer got my wife Chris in

the office.

So like, it's going, but I just want it to be.

I just want it to go, you know.

Would you say you feel comfortable right now?

Like like like just like if it's not like to, like, intrusive, like financially.

Do you feel like this is okay for now? You know what I mean?

Or there is a stage where, like I used to, I

kind of think it's like fight or flight, like two months down the line.

I could be gone, right?

So this is funny because Chrissy is like, she's sort of like

weather and great, like, you're doing amazing.

Like, you know, you get every job done.

You've got hardly, like, minimal callbacks, things like that.

But my side of it is like, half only got like, this in the bank or, you know, like

you'll pay, you'll do like a big job and you'll have to pay the supplier before you

get paid. And it's sort of like it leaves you a bit lower, like or lower than you're

comfortable. So like, it's a bit like I just want more, if that makes sense.

Because that's, that is something that's quite unique to the construction sector

and things where a lot of businesses really struggle.

I don't know enough about this to like to be able to comment on it, but that thing

of,

you know, you've got you've got a job coming in, it's five grand for a labor,

two grand for the materials, but you don't get paid for all of it until the end.

So you've got from that two grand for the materials.

I imagine there's lots of different business models where you take a deposit

or you get that is my business model.

I take a deposit for new clients. Yeah.

And and that's put, put a both of us.

So like if you pay deposit I will get the equipment that will cover me for the

supplies.

That doesn't cover any labor, anything like that cover any expenses that covers

your kit and sort of like the things you need to get going.

If I do a runner at that point, at least you've got the kit on site, or if I go

under whatever, whatever it may be.

Yeah, you've got the kit on site.

So like you've got what you've paid for. It's like a transaction

just to give a little bit more context on the business, what's the ratio.

Residential to like commercial for you.

For me personally I would say it's 7030 commercial versus domestic.

So I would probably be predominantly more commercial side or I would say like light

commercial. So leisure centers and restaurants and things like that, things.

Okay. So I think we've got a good context for the business.

So okay.

Steady would like to grow.

Yeah.

It'd be nice to have, I guess more consistent regular work as though we can

build up a bit of a, you know, a sort of nest egg type thing, make sure that we're

like, you know, we've got quite a part of money that can fall back on.

where abouts is your work coming from right now?

You could point down like like how do how do I TCM like get

get the work in or is it comfortable.

So a lot of my stuff is subcontracted.

I'm not afraid to say that because a lot of people there be like, oh, it's not your

own work or there's there's quite a bit of a stigma. Yeah.

And I think like at the end of the day, like I'm, I'm feeling my family, I'm

getting money in my pocket and everyone's happy providing a good service.

So I would say the split is probably 70, 3,470% is

subcontracted. So whether that's through,

me doing my own costings and, you know, the contractor putting their bit on top,

like, you know, or it could be a day, wait for some another company or it could be a

mix of things really.

But I would say the split is probably 73 of private and subcontracted.

Sub gone.

Would you, would you like to build that 30 up like to your own work.

Oh for sure not to not to shit on all of the like the people that were so

contracted you out. In my dear world, longevity of TKM, you would be 100% well.

But that's what they're doing. Yes. Do you know what I mean?

They've got their own work and they need help with it. So they need people like me.

And I think like that subcontracting thing is you need good subcontractors.

It doesn't matter who you are and how big your businesses like you need people who

are reliable. But yeah, that 30%.

I would like to sort of grow that, to sort of like, yeah, to indefinitely really.

It'd be amazing, you know.

Of course, Can you give us almost like, a timeline?

It doesn't have to be that extensive.

And like, how did you get your first work in and how did that evolve?

Like got to up to now where like in terms of like if you could think about things

like networking and advertising, you know, just putting a post out on team mates on

like Facebook, like all the way to now is that evolve? Yeah.

So, so when I started so like, basically I left my, my old

company to like, do other like ventures, things like that.

And then when I went on my own, I sort of like said to them, I was like, man, I

started on my own. Like, you know what my works like?

And it's only chance, like, we could, you know, we could like, you know, could you

feed me some? Basically, like, there was no easy way to say

So was was was the way forward, mate.

Subbing was the only subbing to them was the only sort of nest egg that I had at

that point. So anyway, so that was that.

And then,

I can't remember what the question was.

It was, I thought the evolution of how you got work.

So it started off as you continue to be, obviously. Yes. Oh, right. Okay.

Were there any other avenues of getting work in that you got, you know, this job

came from this. Okay.

I did the old school thing of doing cards, cars through the doors. Yeah.

And my first job that I got, I mean, I didn't win it because it was way too big

for me to take on anyway, but, like, they sent me to draw tifo and I was like, oh,

my God. I quoted it and it was like, insane.

It was like a like two very systems, like a big, like big stuff.

And I was like trying to quote.

And I was like, mate, I've never quoted a job before. So it was like, come in.

And I was like, oh my God. Yeah.

So like I did that sort of, you know, business cards and things like that,

leaving cards in a windows of people, you know, relatively quickly, like, like one

big job in one.

I mean, I didn't get that job, but they gave me like little bits.

They got like little splits and repairs and things like that.

So like, you know, that helped out.

Yeah, the old school stuff works.

And then a lot of it was through social media.

A lot of it was predominantly Instagram. Okay. Really.

You

I'm a business and stuff out on Instagram and then work on.

But at the start I don't know whether they're still on there.

But you go right, right to the start.

It's only stuff of like, you know, like tools and like showing like what I'm

putting in because I didn't have that much work. I didn't even have.

I was renting a van when I started, so it was like I didn't have that work, you

know?

So like it sort of grew from, like doing them little bits to like all of a sudden

you're like shooting photos of yourself and then turns into, like something else.

And people see what you're doing and they sort of like, oh, mate.

I love to, like, work together or I need a hand on a job or. Yeah.

So it grew from there, really. It was sort of like subcontracted was like most of it.

And then my own stuff would be I would say a lot of it is from

website, I would say Google searches, that sort of thing.

And the website came was out relatively quickly or no, that came late.

Yeah, yeah, that came late.

And I don't know why I slapped on that, to be honest.

It was sort of just I was too busy trying to make it happen.

It's not it's not super obvious for a contract, and I don't think it's actually

super necessary if you're looking to scale. Yes.

You're sort of picking up our jobs and stuff like that.

I don't I'm not 100% sure.

It's massively necessary.

Maybe for the commercial sector. Yes. Yeah.

I would say for the commercial sector, people are going to type in air

conditioning in their local area and they're going to come up with some sort

of, yeah, some sort of air conditioning contractor.

If you're if you're a

small business tradesperson that relies heavily on word of mouth

referrals, work and stuff like that, you can live without having sure a lot.

Dude, I'm sure a lot do a lot.

A lot of people are probably established enough that they don't need a website.

But for me, I'm just sort of like those inquiries. They do.

They do come through not like in masses, but they do come through.

It's good to have a portfolio, isn't it, as well.

It's not like social media, because I feel like a lot of people use social media for

like the,

the community side of things showing their personality, but it's not necessarily

here's my completed, here's a body of Michael complete works that there can be

curated to be like, this is here's a, you know, on one page, a

series of big commercial jobs that I've done.

So you can see that I can do this though. Yeah.

You might have to find that on Instagram anyways, if it's on a website. Yeah.

A quick plug actually for anybody who's where's my camera on that one.

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Go check that out.

Not a sponsor, but really cool because one of the the issues

initially when you're tradesperson, I'm not I'm not tarnishing all tradespeople

with the same brush, but not always super, super technically minded for things like

websites marketing, all that kind of thing.

Which is why dissident exists.

Neither is the creative industry for that.

For that matter,

the idea of building a website yourself or paying someone to do it for nightmare

mate. It's

luckily like it was someone like like that.

Chrissy knew and, you know, sort of like I sort of paid him for the website and he

and he built it for me.

It's lucky that I had that connection.

But like, other people don't have that connection.

Like, mate, where do I start from here? Yeah.

And reliable, robust,

affordable tools that are easy to use probably weren't around six years ago.

It might have been, but it might not have been affordable.

Or maybe they weren't affordable.

For me,

it can cost a bomb. Yeah.

What I found in, you know, we have a website.

We're not a web design agency to build websites.

I have built like shit ones in the past when I was on a budget I've done in the

South, I had to learn, you know, but,

there's there's it's missing the sweet spot.

So, like, two grand for a website is lowball for for a business like ours,

that's got a lot of stuff going on and things like that.

So two grand, actually quite a small cost for a website and more often than not

know all the two grinders.

But it's not necessarily going to be the most extravagant website.

Yeah, there needs to be.

No, but you might find that there's a few bucks for your issues and things like

that, and it's not a really super comprehensive.

And then I feel like the next level up is 15g and there's no middle ground. Yeah.

It was just like, I feel like I just need to build this or hire someone, like

internally to do it.

That's that's my own struggles.

But a 15 gram website for a, a for a, you know, service

based business that's local probably is out of the question anyway, because it's

going to be quite difficult to get that back unless it's performing incredibly

well and someone who's trying to build their business 15g a lot of money.

So like someone who's like trying to get from like say for example, like that, that

sort of sole trader in there even trying to go limited or they're trying to like

get a second pair of hands or maybe 15g a lot of money, especially when you've got a

like pay for a van and all this stuff, like it's crazy money. Yeah, absolutely.

And I was like, you know, when I first started, you know, and who knows whether

it's going to work? Well, this is it.

The, the, the marketing landscape has changed a lot.

And for a lot of, a lot of it depends on the type of business.

It's like once for some businesses, our website is crucial.

It's the only way they make money.

E-commerce business is, for instance, sales online for service based businesses.

A lot of the time it's just a portfolio, so it doesn't need to perform incredibly

well. It just needs to show stuff.

It just needs someone to look at it being like, I'm here, point people in the right

direction. That points them in a different direction, blah, blah, blah.

So yeah, it's it's what other stuff that you do.

You've got website like that, you know, you build that a little bit later that's

generated some, some work and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean I've had inquiries come through that and like quotes gone out, jobs got

done, you know that sort of thing. So it's not it's not made me a millionaire by far.

But it shows people that you're there.

The beautiful thing about a website is you can kind of the most part build it and

leave it, which I like. Exactly.

It's it's kind of like once it's paid for itself, everything else is profit, right?

Yeah. And you know, you can't update it. You should have it. But you don't have to.

But that like that links in with everything else.

So like whatever whatever you see, wherever you see, like where I'm at, it

points you to there. And it's got that inquiry form.

So that's what where I want the traffic to go and get that inquiry, get that, convert

that to a sale, you know.

But obviously, you know, if if you're a subcontractor or like your contractor

looking for a subcontractor, you're not going to fill that out, you know, that

sort of thing. So it's more like the direct work.

You've got to have multiple avenues

in the work that you do. Yeah.

Are there anything else that, like before we move on and ask that you try the you

thought, you know what, I didn't really expect that to work. And it did.

Or, you know, like little nuance.

Didn't, you know, interesting things, networking stuff like that.

You know, network is like when I went to,

like when I started going to like, trade shows, things like that, you know, I would

start, I would just go down on my own or like, I'd go there, you know, just have a

walk around and people would be like, oh, like get well, what do you do?

Like, do aircon, give a card out.

All of a sudden they're like, oh, by the way, I spoke to so-and-so who grabbed your

card like, oh, can you?

So I think like some of the old school ways of doing things of like giving

someone a card, giving someone a number like that does work.

And I've had plenty of people ring me up from from that word of mouth is great as

well, I'd say.

I've had a I've had an issue with lead generation.

There's one in particular.

Obviously I don't want to like you don't want to say, but it was like for what I

was paying, it was insane,

mate. I didn't get one thing, not one.

And the only one I did get was like, just.

It was like a

so bogus man.

I had gone there three times.

I didn't work out no names.

But is this like a third party agency that's like I can generate X amount of

leads basically. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And they're like, oh, give you leads in your local area.

You pay for this will guarantee you this many leads a month and there.

But whether they convert or not obviously it's one thing.

And number two, who knows.

Like they was giving me random stuff.

It was like, oh, can someone come and draw a hole through my wall so I could, like,

poke, you know, like a portable AC unit? The hose. Yeah.

I just want to poke that at the wall.

And I'm like, come on, man, this is not my thing.

Leads a leads right.

Know good leisure badly. Yeah. You know

if the because they're never they never

guaranteeing UX amount of revenue of work is just emails x amount of emails.

Excellent inquiries that you can reply to.

And they might not even go back and stuff. But you know what?

A lot of people say it's really good.

Like a lot of people have good experiences with it.

I'm just talking about personally, my experience was terrible, like pay so much

money, like over the course of like a year and a half.

And it was like not one thing.

And you just see it coming out of your account. You like for what? Yeah.

You know. we put in

I think it was 12 grand

interviews

last year. Really.

See I've got a friend like my friend Isaac, my friend Isaac, he wants a tree

surgery business mate. He says Google ads.

He's like the best thing he's ever done, which might be for his business. Yeah.

Didn't work for us. Yeah, maybe it could be area. I could be.

What business you're in? In what area?

Like, there's so many variables in there. You've got to try these things.

And also my experience of that shouldn't Harnish Google ads as a whole.

It was just whatever we were doing with Google as I was supposed to.

It was third party

and again, not necessarily there for, you know, it was kind of you learn stuff.

Don't you know, it's just like a creative agency that specializes in working with,

construction brands, manufacturers and tiers who contractors, you know, all these

really, really big companies.

Maybe Google has isn't the answer to that.

You know, it's worth a try.

But you know, but it's all I've been hearing from a lot of people in a minute.

It's like that's how they're generating revenue is by doing that.

That's their marketing.

Maybe if they're if they've got a, a much larger market than we have, because the

stuff that we do is so niche to a very small percentage of people,

you know, don't chunk 12 grand into Google ads for that, but that put that money into

something else.

Whereas if you're doing a service which is needed by a much larger audience,

which was yours is yeah, that's probably a better it's a better answer.

But we had with with if I don't know, we're chucked 12 grand at it and not have

done it. Yeah.

We had that income for we give it a go. It didn't work. And do you think.

Do you think like for you like when you look at that 12 grand that you've put into

that, do you look back and go, I shouldn't have done that.

Like when, like when you're in the scenario, when you're in that position,

you go, well, okay, this is this is what I'm going to put my money into.

But then on the back of that you're just like, like, is it sort of like I tried and

I failed and I know not to do that again.

Or was it like, did you really like, kick yourself and go, why did I do that?

Detached from the money anyway?

Okay, that side of things, this is probably where we're different.

Then I would take that so personally man.

Yeah, I think because it's gradual I think it's a bit easier if, if 12 grand came out

of my account and nothing happened in one day, I but

but

it's one of those things where you've got to try these things and not all marketing

works. Yeah, and such a minefield.

If we only had 12 brand in the bank, that would really hurt.

Yeah, but you know, we're okay. Yeah.

And and we knew that we could then we've since learned from that.

And you know, one of the considerations we might bring someone in house because these

Google ads.

So then because, you know, maybe a long game, maybe you've got to do it for

longer.

And then the agency that we had was like, really, these things don't kick in until

about 12 months. And I was like, yeah, we're

okay. Wouldn't have done it.

But not like sold on a false premise.

But at the same time it kind of feels that way.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

No.

Because any other, any other business probably would have said the same thing.

Well they might have done loads better.

We didn't know.

Try and try a new thing next time.

Anyway, so you've had experiences where you've had a third party come in and said

you got the leads. That didn't work.

Yeah, but shouldn't we should we're not going to tarnish like those kinds of

businesses. But no again.

Anybody can do that.

You know, you can have really someone really good do that and someone really

terrible doing that.

I think the downside that you see all the time, we had a bit of a conversation about

this.

It's like somebody, some influencer, somebody in the Gary Vee or I

said, what all of you guys should do is learn how to do Google ads and then

target construction businesses and give them exactly the same page, because

literally what I see all the time, it's like copy and paste, like I can get your X

Miley's can you take on more work? So blah blah blah.

And it's like it's like like and most of these messages are

like AI or generated or they don't care.

It's not a real person messages or whatever. That's what I mean.

Like on online I get so many messages like and it seems so genuine when you look at

it, it looks so genuine, so legit.

And I go, oh, like, how are you getting on? Like, can you take all my work?

And I'm like, look at it.

I'm like, wait, this is this is so moody, man.

Yeah, yeah. Everybody does.

I think

if you tried so but you've done Google ads otherwise have you, if you like.

Never done. No. Never done Google ads. No.

Thought you know what.

Like obviously like my website and I've got goggle business, that sort of thing.

But I've never sort of gone down that route of Google ads because I've heard

different mixed opinions. Yeah.

It's one of those things like, you know, we took 12th round at Google and nothing

happened. You could put £200 a Google and be. Absolutely. Yeah.

I got a locksmith friend.

I had to turn off Google ads because he was getting just getting indicted with his

stuff. so I did do like targeted ads on Facebook.

So I did try Facebook for a bit.

I can't remember how much I put in.

I think it was about a couple of hundred quid I put in

to like obviously like push a certain like I can't remember what post it was, but

there was like a post that I did that I was really proud of and like, would sort

of target my audience, like locally, like my, my local,

like local work basically.

But yeah, again, it was sort of like I got a few like, messages, but it was sort of

like a bit wish washy.

It was sort of like kind of inquiring, but nothing really like came of

have you ever sort of like heard like when someone's like, tried like boosting their

post or tried like all these things and got nothing of it and they're like, mate,

don't try that. Yeah.

And he's just sort of like, well, it must be there for a reason.

He must push out somewhere.

But it's sort of like, do you take the chance, you know, like as, as sort of like

a, I would say like a small business trying to grow.

It's sort of like that, I don't know, say if you put 1,000 pound or 1502 grand into

spend,

right. That's a, that's a pretty big dent for some people. Yeah.

You know, the, the, the boosting and ads and all that kind of thing.

It really like a lot of that really just depends on like what your goals are.

The message has got to be clear. It's gotta be on point.

I'm guilty of being I think this this what we've posted is really cool and we've put

some money here, but I'm under the understanding that I will get nothing from

it. Vanity metrics.

But and this is the problem I think this is the difference is like so

with that like the boost post and things like that.

Like I don't do any of that, but like I will, I will like upload something that

I'm really proud of or like a job that I got done or whatever it needs to be.

And I want someone to look at that and go, you know, like he's probably worth that

money. If he's charging that money, he's probably can get the job done, you know?

And I haven't got a load of, like, builders around my ass.

It's just one, one guy, a guy named mate.

I want to transfer that, like, put that post into, convert that into a sale rather

than being like, oh, you're that go off the internet.

Like, I don't like don't get me wrong.

When I see people when they're like, oh, maybe I'll watch your stuff. It's great.

But like, I kind of want the same thing for a customer,

A lot of it is public image.

It's the first impression, isn't it?

Which is massively you instantly, you instantly get a viable.

It's like, I don't like it or I think this is perfect. Yeah.

Or TCM is ideal for this person, or you just position the business in that way and

that comes through and how you talk in your on your website and copy

branding, socials, all of the all the potential touchpoints for your

advertising

for, you know, let's say Google Ads is like large scale AC servicing and

integration, whatever.

Then it then all of those kind of eventually it's a bit like, like, do you

think it all comes full circle after after a point?

You know, it goes back to the thing of only show what you want to do. Okay, okay.

I see, like my tattooist is a really, really good example because I tell him all

the time when, when we do tattoos, like I've got loads of, like, color tattoos and

stuff and he's like

stuff like this. This is what I love buzzing when I come in. Yeah.

And we do a full day of like full color work.

And he's like like I don't get to do any of it.

I'm like, that's because, like, I know all of your social media is like black and

white stuff. That's not relevant. Yeah.

And like, like if you don't show that, you won't get that. His problem is.

But I don't show that I won't get anything. This is it.

And, mate, I was so glad you said that.

It's because, like, a lot of people will say like, oh, mate, like, sometimes you've

kind of just like, you know, got like sort of chop your arm off to save yourself, you

know, but like, at the same time, when you're in the thick of it as a small

business, you're in a thick of it and you're like in the trenches with everybody

else. You're taking what you can get.

I don't I don't care who you are or like how big your company is.

When you first started, you would have took anything on.

And I think like I think people sometimes do lose sight of it.

I think it's having that mentality of like, you know, all of your marketing, all

of your socials, all your website.

You can start to think about curating this to be like, right, you know, I'm going to

save up those photos that I got on that job, like a lot of different angles of

this, and I've got to do that. Maybe I even jump on a couple of jobs with

you. Do you mind if I take a couple of pictures?

I know I'm a subi.

Would you mind if I take a couple of pictures?

I always ask that question.

Save those pictures back, create your story

and then you will find over a period of time because marketing you know, just

because your your website get a new lead in the next day.

Yeah this massive it takes time.

You've got to do all that kind of stuff. But I would say only show, only show.

What you want to do is massively portfolio

is, you know, it's. Yeah.

And I think a lot of my stuff's informative as well.

So like like obviously like obviously the website and all that sort of stuff that I

just use that for people to look at and be like, if you need anything, contact us.

Yeah. And then with, with the, you know, like the socials and stuff.

It's sort of like I like to not tell a story but like give you some sort of

information.

So like if I'm doing part work, like it might not be me voiceover in it, this is

how you do it.

It's going to be like, oh, what can see is doing that and kind of make it cool and

exciting because like a lot of building or like a lot of I would say mechanical stuff

is quite boring, I guess trying to like make it cool when like advertise the

people. It's it's quite boring, man.

Some of it, I mean the plumbers,

copper work and stuff like that. Yeah. I don't know, mate.

I might, you might. It's like.

It's like getting thrown to the wolves sometimes, right. Yeah. Maybe it's.

But the other side of it as well.

That is something like we're kind of like I'm going off on a tangent here, something

that I come across all the time and it winds me up so much.

Is the construction community and people working in Russia, not people in general,

but I just see it too often in construction that

they're so bitchy about the details and like, they're so quick to

put out a negative comment about something that's so trivial.

I'm like, why did you even why did you even do that?

Do you not find this in any other industry or the construction?

So many people are positive, man.

Yeah, you're like construction, you know, let's just assume the stereotype.

It's not true.

Men that are like, you know, like they're just gruff men that do work and drink beer

and and go to the pub and watch football way. Yeah, yeah. Let's assume that.

But the actual, the actual thing is like, there's quite a lot of people on social

media bear in mind, the small minority of people, they see someone else's post, they

see their success, and they go, that bloke's not wearing high, viz.

That's not that's not up to race. That's not respect.

I wouldn't have done that.

Why is that pint for a meal over?

Yeah.

I'm like like, why have you even bothered to ask that question? Like what?

So you get the haters right, mate?

I've been there so many times.

We've worked in lots of industries.

I've never known a be such an issue in the industry, to the point where it affects

what we do as a creative agency, because if we get onto a site, if we've got to do

some promo work for a brand, does that give you back? Does it?

I'm assuming, but I don't give a shit. Okay.

We get paid to do cool stuff.

Yeah, the the brand will see or I say backlash.

There'll be like, but God, he's funny sometimes because it's true.

But why don't even do that?

You know, like, why the hell have you, why have you, why the hell have you, like,

installed and x that into Air Crete? No one would ever do that.

Like a fair point,

but,

yeah, you'll see someone's post and it's like a genuine it's a contract or

whatever.

And they've gone like someone's noticed something really small detail in the

corner of the picture, and they've come on to just to slay him.

What did you.

I think it's to have that one up.

It's like a one up mentality and I don't understand it, you know, like, don't get

me wrong, I see some things online that I go that's a bit questionable to put on or

like, I mean, obviously like I'm not naming any, but whatever.

But like I've messaged people and being like, look man, like something to like

really like out of touch with regs or things like that or like people will pick

it up.

I'd be like, dude, man, like I'll probably reedit that or take that down, repost it,

whatever. Like you're aware of the backlash, mate.

I'm like, I'm on your side here.

Like I'm trying to do you a solid, you know, like I don't care what you do.

Like it's not down to me.

But mate, I'm just trying to look out for you, man, because you will get thrown to

the wolves, man. It's it's it's something that.

I mean, your customers don't get shit about any of this stuff. No aircon. Cool.

Yeah, I have some. You know what I mean? Most of the most.

I'm not going to care, but.

Yeah, but I've had people have said to me that I make do, you know, you've got to do

this. Do you know you've got to do that?

And I'm like, no, I don't. Thanks for telling me.

That's nice, but drop it. Yeah. Dropping the DM.

But don't just slate someone else's like post and throw shade to it.

This is what I'm saying, man. Yeah, well, sorry.

We're going off on one social media, mate.

Like, so you got you've got a great presence on social media, your Instagram,

TikTok, YouTube videos, that kind of stuff. Dabbled. Not really.

Facebook

Facebook's linked to. Yeah. Oh I post. Yeah.

Which is where it's letting me down a little bit. That's my own problem here.

Yeah.

Not letting me down but like I should be more active on the Facebook thing, a bit

more personal. You know

I hate Facebook. Yeah.

It's not a great tool for us, but it's probably,

what's it doing for you at the moment? What have you.

Do you have a strategy behind it? Does he does it get you work?

Can you can you give me the landscape of your social media for you?

Yeah, I would say I would say the

like the, the TikTok side of it is more I try and appeal to like apprentices or day

to day stuff or informative stuff.

I try and keep that sort of more entertaining.

I would say, yeah, I would

know. I mean, I've had a few inquiries off of there, but I mean, nothing, nothing

extravagant, you know, but if you've got out a few jobs off there,

but I'd say the, the Instagram side, it's probably where I concentrate on most and

that sort of just because

the subconscious.

So like a lot I would say a lot of the following is from other contractors, from

other AC firms, facilities management, apprentices, engineers who are even in the

trade not got their own business.

You know, they're just like following, you know, air con stuff.

I would say probably that's where I spend most of my time.

On on that social media side for that reason to, to to to appeal more

to people in your community as opposed to potential customers.

But obviously but the thing is, I want to change that. Okay.

So, you know, like I said, I boxed myself in like sort of that thing where like when

you go on the Instagram or you see it's like my face and me doing jobs and, and

whatever, it's sort of like I've put myself in that bracket of subcontracting

because people are going to call you and they're going to expect to you. Yes.

So for me, like I do, spend most of my time there and I enjoy it.

And I've got I'd say I've got my own personality videos, things like that on

their stories, that sort of thing.

But yeah, that's where I spend most of our time and all my subcontracting work, or at

least 80% of it is come from there.

think I brown myself at the minute as a small business.

I think that that is my branding.

And I think, I hope that's why people like it so much is because, like, you know,

people have had them days where they've got to get a unit up on a flat roof on

their own and like, no one's seen it, no one appreciates it.

We're like, I appreciate it.

And that's where, like, the small business head is.

But I reckon I could let that go to advertise to like

yeah, I think I could let the you know, as I said, I don't have a like an ego.

I don't do it for like it's always been a portfolio.

It's always been like, so if I give a customer a price and their units got to go

well up, I and the pipe runs at awkward, they can look back at the stuff on

Instagram and go,

that looks like hard work land for one guy or two guys.

That's probably why he's an extra £500 more

and he's probably going to do a good job.

And I think, like I could let all that go to advertise big.

You know, it's not all about me as such.

I want it is at the minute, but I'm hoping it's going to pay off in the future for

like bigger stuff.

Well, the beautiful thing about social media networks, about marketing is all of

these are different channels, and all these different channels can be

should act on

how day.

All of these channels can be pointed in very different directions.

And that's what a lot of I think a lot of people in the trade who are trying to

advertise their own business to get, and because it's work linked in, you

can have a very different you can show up very differently on Instagram, TikTok, you

can show up very differently

to Instagram. Facebook is exactly the same.

Facebook could be more domestic.

Instagram can be more community based.

Yeah, TikTok can be just for fun.

And that's where I've directed it.

Exactly what you said there is like the Facebook is obviously like the jobs just

go for it. Or like the it's just like, you know what it's like repost.

The TikTok is like the entertainment or the how to's, that sort of thing.

And then the Instagram is for more like the community sort of thing, you know, and

I like to sort of advertise that like, it's not all glory, you know, I think like

people only put the good stuff on.

And I think that's like a trait of mine is like, mate, I am like one of you, like out

there that's in the rain or in dark alleyway trying to get stuff done.

I think.

I think that's what this one leaning into is the fact that although we, you know,

we're saying like, you know, like I gave the ultimatum like, could you stop all of

that and just post like glossy pictures of the work that you've done in these amazing

spaces and perhaps like, almost like

marketing style, like a proper work portfolio? Yeah.

But a lot of, you know, a lot of the AC trade is that on Instagram.

So a lot of people won't show their like there's like loads of AC people out on

Instagram, on Facebook, whatever, mate.

You you don't know who they are.

I think you can and I think that's where I'm a little bit different.

I think you can combine the two.

Yeah, can be a sweet spot 100% because I think, I think being a face, being a

personality opens a door for a conversation as opposed to I might not my

I might not necessarily on Instagram.

The a faceless corporate entity because I just feel like I feel like I'm going to

get like a some kind of office work message me back.

But whereas if I'm if I can see it's Tom

and, and I want to drop down just to say I really enjoyed that video, you could do

the day. I'm actually in the market for some of this stuff. Can we have a chat?

Yeah, I might feel more inclined to drop that DM as opposed to sort of like a

corporate entity where you can just sort of AI generated slop. Yeah.

And and that's why I like, like the start when I was like, I want to become like a

bigger business.

But I have like a family feel because I want you to feel like you could ring up

and you could get through whether you get through to me or Chrissy, or if there's

somebody else in the office or a couple of engineers out on the road, I feel like

that you could talk to them how you could talk to

And you could start showing up on LinkedIn.

And all of these channels can be acting differently and doing different things,

but all pointing towards the same goal of growing. And you know what?

I think that's where I had a problem a few years ago when I first started, was like

the marketing was all over the place, like me trying to get my my name out there.

The imagery was different to the email, and the email was different to the

workwear.

The workwear was different to the van, and it was like it was all a bit sort of.

You looked at the Instagram and you'd see TKM air conditioning and the logo, but

then you go to the website and and like the website brand, it would be a different

logo. And then you go to the email and the email signature, there'd be a different.

Yeah it would, it was all over the place and like Chrissy like sort with the art

for me. She was like, right, we're going to get everything sort of central.

I think that makes a difference 100%. It's made such a difference.

And like getting all your emails going into one email address, like an info or,

you know, like then you've got Tom and you've got Chrissy at TCM.

Like there's loads of different just being a bit more strategic, I would say with it.

And then you can build in some sort of paid advertising method, usually pretty

good.

It's quite it's still relatively cheap, LinkedIn, super expensive, but really

targeted.

So there's loads of ways that you can kind of show up into these places, point people

towards your website, which has got all the various of these big jobs and curated,

and the tone of voice is really good. And

the, you know, there's lots of options to send a message or a call or do whatever.

But with the market, sorry to like just go on like, like say for example, like you

have a big job and a small job.

So you've got like a commercial, I don't know, let's say a restaurant or, you know,

say like a dance studio, whatever.

But then you want to target, I don't know, a small domestic property that's got two

units in there, like

it's trying to figure out a way to do both.

And it's sort of like I find that like that's what I'm trying to do is target

both rather than going down one avenue.

Like with regards to like the marketing side,

I want to be able to do both.

So I don't want it again.

Like I don't want to sort of, you know, just be just commercial or just the

message.

I want to be able to take on repairs, service, maintenance, installation and

that sort of thing.

So like it's all like the marketing side, it's sort of like a LinkedIn would be sort

of like your facilities management that that would be.

I'm just sort of like, you know, like, would that be

like that? Facilities management.

Your Facebook is for your domestic your domestic stuff.

Your Instagram is for like, you know, getting to with other like small

businesses, you know, that sort of thing. Put yourself out there for sure.

You know, like I think

you've now done the head there. Absolutely.

Because

there's there's going to be crossover anyway between both always there's going

to be corporate people on Facebook.

There's going to be, you know, domestic people on.

It's natural that, you know, you might you know, your stuff might pop up in front of

a procurement person at a large gym that also leads in their house and stuff for

the gym, but they need that.

Yeah.

But yeah, the way that you show up on those platforms should be, should be it

should be different to every platform.

It should be like custom customized every platform.

So I think okay, I think it's important to have a, a goal for each one.

I don't think anybody got very far with I need my business to appeal to everybody at

all times. Okay.

I think that's where I'm going.

Not going wrong, but I think that's where I'm steering it at the minute is like I'm

trying to advertise to everybody rather than being like, LinkedIn is more

corporate then, you know, your Facebook is more domestic like that, that sort of

thing.

I think that's where again, like I'm sort of like just working with an engineer's

brain rather than a salesman or like a marketing brain.

I think it's okay to advertise for everybody, but in the right way, in the

right place, I agree. Yeah.

So you're not going to be dropping,

let's say let's call it a brochure because, yeah,

you know, a a trifle. Yeah.

Something like that of domestic properties into a victim. Okay. Yeah.

Right. They want to set up. Yeah.

It's exactly the same with social media.

In the fact that, you know,

the, let's say the Instagram can be very much about you, but kind of have a bit of

both. That's absolutely fine, because I don't think Instagram is a great marketing

channel, that it sort of sits in the middle of everybody.

Yeah, I think Instagram is more like a personal thing and everyone gets invested

in you as well as the business.

Great, great, great place to keep work up for now.

Yeah, you can always turn that down and they can see your projects that you're on.

They can see what projects that you're on with other people.

And it's sort of like, oh, I could do with him, you know, that sort of thing.

Facebook's your domestic stuff.

Just have a just like schedule out all the domestic stuff onto their run some ads,

you know,

AI to crap out of how to, how to build a great add to this or whatever.

It's a good starting point. It's not it's not the perfect solution.

It's a really good starting point. LinkedIn.

You turn it up, you're talking about specific things.

You're showing up in a very different way to everybody else.

And when you talking about some of these bigger corporate jobs. Yeah.

Still be you still be authentic, still be genuine.

But we're showing the bigger jobs. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And,

I think I think if you approach the way that you mark it in that way, but with a

goal, and that goal still needs to stick of like if I want to lean more into the

bigger commercial jobs, then I'm going to put more effort into whatever, whatever

avenues there's going to be.

Based on your,

experience so far, all of the things that you've done, not the stuff that we've

talked about, the things that you've done.

If you could put more time or money into one thing that's generated business for

TKM, what would be?

What would it be?

A quick win for you?

A quick win for me.

I know this works its work before. Let's go.

Let's give that another go.

I've got to be honest I think going to these trade shows.

Yeah I feel like that word of mouth things worked really well for me.

And do you mean trade shows as in like things like Screwfix live and or do you

mean like networking events like.

No, I've been to networking events and that mate like the ones that I went to,

they were just like a sales tactic of like of like being sort of like roped into sort

of like, oh, we can advertise your business. So yeah. Yeah.

So like, but more like Screwfix live installer show, all that sort of stuff.

Like that's really helped me.

Like, I feel like that got me a lot of like, oh, I've got, you know, you're

speaking to like a builder and they go, oh, we've got this build on like they're

thinking about having aircon in the conservatory, like it'll go for you, but

do you want to just come and have a look at it?

I've had a lot of stuff like that. Yeah. Okay. That's interesting.

So build your network.

Basically I would say if I yeah I would say commit time to that.

And then if I was going to do anything

on the other side of things, I would probably, I would probably explore more

avenues with like LinkedIn, like, as you say, if I'm going to go down that route of

commercial, I'll probably explore more views there, because a lot of people like

I've had, for example, like people like other

like engineers and things like that.

But I've seen your LinkedIn, like my boss has seen your LinkedIn.

Like if there's anything there, I'll give you a shout.

You know, I think that's definitely the other avenue I will go down.

It's massive because, you know, from a marketing tactic, let's say you've got

time to to because the thing was social with things.

LinkedIn, the thing with social media in general is it's a social media network.

You have to network in both social. There are two big things. Right.

So LinkedIn especially is is a social platform.

You don't get anything by showing up, posting and leaving.

You've got to build these networks and you've got to build trust and start

conversations and comments and other people's, which you do anyway on

Instagram.

But what I love about LinkedIn is you can target specific people in the business.

So you go on to LinkedIn, you go, I reckon if I, if I got if I got AI, let's say to

find me all of the businesses that I think are within my realms to help that my

target, my target, not dream clients, but my target, my new target market, slightly

bigger commercial jobs, and I give it the parameters of X, Y and z.

And I go, I'm in Crawley, give me a radius of 45 miles.

Find me all of the businesses ranging from the most likely to the least likely in a

in a priority list.

Give me all of those in a list form of all those businesses that fit that criteria.

And I'm going to go on LinkedIn and find every single one of those businesses, and

then go into the people page and find all of the people that I think are relevant MD

procurement, facilities management, whatever,

connects with all of those people and, and start being social. Yeah.

That's where I'll probably target.

That's, that's I mean that's my

only real sales.

Like they're the only two that I feel like I've worked for me so far.

I like that word of mouth thing actually being like face to face and being like,

this is who I am. This is what I do.

And then the LinkedIn thing

again, you've got 1:00 in the morning, just I'm like on the toilet, in the bath,

like on the way to such and such, like dealing with the kids, all that kind of

thing. That's that's my only time.

Yeah, but it works and it's absolutely massive.

I, I'm going to ask you maybe 1 or 2 final questions.

Yeah.

If someone in back or a general tradesperson general Chase is like, that's

such a thing. Other tradespeople. Yeah.

Are watching this and they want to learn something from your story.

What's the biggest piece of value you think you could you could give based on

all of your experiences.

And that can that can be for you can specify, okay, if you're just starting out

or if you're new, don't make my mistakes. Don't do this.

Like if you can have one sort of key takeaway from your experiences, what do

you think it would be to better their business? Generate more?

Yeah, I would say there's like a couple of things.

So like I would say

charge what you're worth and market yourself with what you're worth.

A lot of people undersell themselves,

and I feel like I do that because, like, I don't want to take on that big job in case

I like, in case something happens or, mate, you know what?

I can get through that I can help other people get through that.

So, like I would say, market yourself in a way that like, you're proud of yourself

and you're good at what you do, push yourself out your comfort zone, literally.

Yeah.

Don't be too scared to be like, I can do this mad job, even though you're a bit

scared to do it. Yeah, and I feel like that a lot of the time.

This is the second point I was going to make is I've learned quite recently, I

would say within the last year is that people like to make their problems your

problem. Yes.

Like so half of owning a business or half of running a business or, you know, when

it comes to like trying to trying to get other jobs in is you've got to take on

other people's problems.

That's half the job is like dealing with clients, dealing with like subcontractors

or, you know, your subcontractor yourself. You're dealing with a main contractor.

It's sort of like at the end of the day there on time scales, you know, you can't

take that personally, but you've got to be good at taking other people, basically.

I know it seems silly, but like, that's I feel like that is.

That's basically some of the things you've got to learn along the way.

People will make it, people will make it your problem and you've just got to deal

with it. And you know what?

If you if you deal with that and you make it your problem and you sort it out for

them, they will come back to you every time. Yeah.

So like, you've just you've just got to you've just got to take it at some point,

you know,

marketing, customer service. Yeah.

Hard graft

might just work hard.

Like you know I found like I did say this earlier, I was just sort of like I feel

like outwork everybody and you'll make it.

But like, I feel like there's an element of that of where you're if you're up

against a big team, hard work on its own is not going to just pay off.

And so you've got to be like a little bit strategic about it with your market, like,

as you say, market yourself,

like the financial side for a small business is quite hard to, like, market

themselves, like you've got like you've got no budget. Is that what you mean?

Basically, yeah.

I feel like a lot, a lot of the time, like people are like saying about marketing.

And, you know, I watch a lot of people online about how they market and how they

like, like saying about boosting post and putting out like, you know, targeted ads,

things like that, but that that's a lot of money.

Like when you look at like these people in neutral, I watch like a lot of like

YouTube stuff, like advertising and stuff, and they're talking like big numbers, man,

for like a small business is like they're crazy numbers.

And I feel like some people would be like, oh, well, it's fine doing that or like

it's fine saying that, but I haven't got the budget to put into this

work. Yeah, I think that's probably quite a big topic for

the smallest guy, like people who are trying to scale but can't.

They're like stuck in this rut. Yeah.

So if we let's try and list off all of the free marketing tools that you've got or

near free, because sometimes it's like, yeah, yeah, but but I'm talking like the

extravagant stuff, you know, like when you're getting into like thousands and

thousands of pounds of marketing, like a lot of people haven't got that, especially

when they're starting off even like a couple of years in, you know.

So, I mean, we've kind of gone through it already.

We have here if you can get these pillars in place of like some of this isn't even

I would still class networking is marketing.

But one of the things you can do for free that only cost you your time, or a small

amount of a small amount of money, you might have systems or whatever.

You've got your social channels, great place to put on our content.

And then what you can do is

be.

What's the word, Tom?

Deliberate. Be deliberate with that content and have a strategy in place.

Have content pillars.

Don't deviate from it.

If it's showing stuff that that isn't in line with your goals in terms of like the

types of work and stuff, don't show it.

Leave it to do something else, post something else, have a strategy for each

of those channels.

Where else?

We've got this free, we've got a network and we've got social media website.

Now you can get into the free. Yeah, do them yourself or next to free. Yeah.

Again, big shout out.

Now here is my work. Google that.

It's a free website for

is genuinely good. and I think you know what I know I know we're going through it.

But I think people sleeping on a sign written van Simon van mate that is like

mate of the amount of people that go past me and they're like, mate, like I've seen

you or, you know, like, have you got a card?

Or, you know, like that sort of there is people are slacking on that.

I think it needs to happen. Yeah.

It's a rolling billboard.

How many, how many times have you imagine how much it cost to put a build up

billboard up in Shoreditch?

Yeah, right.

And a pounds.

You can park your van in Shoreditch for £60 a day or whatever, I don't know,

whatever it is. Yeah.

And it feels more real.

How much you reckon it would be to put a billboard around the M25? Every day.

Every single day, all around London and the surrounding areas,

mate, you make you pay like, you know, thousand.

Even a couple of grand to have, like, a good sign.

In fact, mine's pretty basic because I just want people to know what it is, what

it does. But, mate, you need to get that done if you haven't got that.

I think if you're going to go start and get in your own work, that's number one, I

think activation just go, oh,

it's all you on social actually I'm calling and I've been thinking about I've

seen you. Yeah, but now I've seen you. Van. It's prompted me to go.

Oh, yeah, it's the geezer. Let me have a chat or let me get on the phone.

Let me get the Instagram or whatever you like.

That commercial client like you're going to go.

You're going to go to someone's office if you're turning up in like some battered

old van and like.

And no offense to people that have got that.

But mate, you can just put you can put a sticker on the side or a magnetic sign or,

you know, just to have that presence of being like, this is me and I'm legit, you

know? And I think people are slacking on that.

You know, you've written van your branded work where all that sort of stuff,

obviously when you're subbing it's a bit difficult, right?

You might have to park around the corner.

You might have to like where your own clothes or, you know, because a lot of

subcontractors, they have you in, but they don't want other people knowing they got

you in. Yes. So which is fine, I understand.

But like if you're trying to go for your own work, it's what I mean.

Branded workwear, branded van and all your stuff.

Like looking the same, presentable, that sort of thing.

Yeah, I think, I think a song written work van is probably the, the one that sort of

slept on the most.

local news ads, you know, like you sort of, you know, even if it's like your

little town newspaper or, you know, you can pay.

However much a month to go in there and, you know, like people, especially the

older generation, they still read the paper, they still like, read through those

local magazines.

They've got disposable income.

Yeah, mate, even if it's like £50 a month, you have a little ad in there,

social media is a big one. Simon and Van all all that sort of stuff.

You've got to be doing that.

Loads of opportunities, that Checkatrade stuff like that.

Not free. But it's reasonable, right?

I don't know,

but all of those directories getting on those get, get, get them pointing towards

your website, SEO analytics and stuff.

Yeah, I think I think I'd be a little bit wary about those, like, you know, those

lead generation sites, they work for certain depending on what route you're

going down. They work.

But just be wary.

I would say, yeah, that's going to come down to exactly.

Yeah.

My builders go, go, go to building sites, ring up local builders, go through your

local ads and ring people and be like, I'm here. Yeah, this is me. This is what I do.

This is my website. This is my email.

Can you go and have a look if you've got any other if you've got any other

inquiries, please just give me a call and then it goes back to that thing.

If you're looking looking to get on the corporate world, you know, big commercial

jobs and stuff like that.

If all you've got his time, get on their target.

The right people use the right tools like AI or whatever business directory doesn't

matter. Find those businesses.

Find the right people within those businesses, you know.

So don't just go into anybody there.

It's like MD

is, I don't know, office management, whatever, whatever you think is relevant

to the types of people that either make a decision or point in the right direction,

that people that make decisions and just speak to them. Be social. Yeah.

Don't don't just do the hard sell, interact with their content.

Do the same stuff that you might do on Instagram.

Yeah.

And when you're like marketing yourself, I found that like if you go into somewhere

speaking like an engineer or a builder, some people might go off the idea of

like, especially like some in the domestic sector is you've got to try and sort of

sell yourself a little bit as like you've got to be like more personal.

Like they don't really care about how things work.

They just want it to work or they want it repaired or, you know, so like when you're

speaking to another engineer or another, another business, obviously another air

conditioning business, I'm talking about, like, you're going to speak in like that

sort of mentality when you're on site, when you're going to a new customer, you

got to understand that people don't know what you're talking about.

So in a way of marketing yourself, you've got to be different.

Yeah.

Nailed it, I think, I think so, I think that loads of different free tools that if

you or if you're running a small business in the trade, particularly in HVAC or

other trades, then some of the things that you can do.

But but they're not to be slept on.

These are things that require dedication, time and commitment to

do. And they're free. Why wouldn't you?

You know, and and when you build that up, you can then go to the services, you can

put out some people out and then start a small build out there and start small,

build that up.

But I think you've I think you've just got to get a few things in place, build them,

you know, build that stuff up first and then you can really be like, right, okay,

here we go. Yeah. You know, but I would say like putting that groundwork first.

Tom, it's been enlightening.

It's been a pleasure to have you in here. Great to hear your story. Good.

And had all the things that you've done.

And I think this is what we're hoping to achieve with this podcast is broaden it

out to not just marketing

for construction brands, but also businesses, small businesses, medium large

businesses, businesses. They're scaled. Find out what's working.

Find out what's not getting.

Get a sense of other people's experiences and find some sort of

value that's relatable to to our audience. I think we've delivered on that today.

So I hope so. Yeah.

See it as always.