What does fifty years in rock and roll actually teach you about money?

Rudy Sarzo was born in Havana, spent part of his childhood in Miami and New Jersey, and has spent the better part of five decades on and around the Sunset Strip. He's played bass with Ozzy Osbourne, Whitesnake, and Dio, and is still touring with Quiet Riot today at 75. Rudy walks through how he ran out of money in LA in the late 1970s, moved to New Jersey to earn enough to get back, and got the call from Kevin DuBrow that landed him in Quiet Riot the same day he returned. A few years later, a connection that traced back to a chance meeting with Randy Rhoads led to the audition call that put him in Ozzy Osbourne's band.

He also gets honest about the money side most musicians never hear about. He talks about the era when the business was completely opaque, when artists never saw how the industry actually worked and had to trust a business manager on faith, and the moment his wife took over the family's finances entirely. He explains why he sees music as a calling rather than a paycheck, and closes with the most direct piece of advice in the whole conversation: hold onto your money, because life is only going to get more expensive.

If you're a working musician trying to figure out the money side of a career that doesn't look anything like a normal job, this is a rare, honest look at what that looks like across five decades, from a guy who is still, by his own words, "just getting started."

If this helped you think differently about the money side of your career, share it with another musician who needs to hear it.

Rudy Sarzo

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarzo.rudy

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/officialrudysarzo

X: https://x.com/rudysarzo

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1mNKYdtelIG1hO58kEjdUQ

Quiet Riot: https://quietriot.band

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Jason K Powers: Welcome to Backstage Money, Real World Finance for Musicians.

I'm your host, Jason K. Powers, and this is the show where we pull

back the curtain on the business and money side of life in music.

Every episode, we sit down with working musicians and industry insiders who

have been figuring it out in the trenches, so you can learn from people

who are actually making it work.

Today's guest has lived more music history than most in the business.

Born in Havana, Cuba, raised in Miami, he came up on the Sunset

Strip and never looked back.

He played bass for Ozzy Osbourne's Diary of a Mad Man and Speak

of the Devil, toured with White Snake, recorded with Dio, and more

notably playing with Quiet Riot.

Now, still touring with Quiet Riot, he also has solo music coming out.

Rudy Sarzo, welcome to Backstage Money.

It's great to be here.

No, I just wanna clear, I, w- when I joined the band Ozzy Osbourne in

1981, both Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman were already recorded.

So I got to play on the tribute album, which is the Live with

Randy Rhoads, and I got to play on Speak of the Devil, which is the

Jason K Powers: Okay, good.

Okay, good,

uh, so I always like

to clear it up,

Jason K Powers: yes.

Yes.

All right, so we like to always start with kind of an origin story.

How did you get into music to begin with and, and end up from where you were

to the Sunset Strip all of a sudden?

What got you into music?

Well, it was definitely not the Sunset Strip.

What got me into music, I mean, what, uh, what became my n- my

North Star or something that I followed was, the British Invasion,

starting with The Beatles, of course.

That opened up the doors for everybody that came through, uh, during the '60s

and created that, that, changed society and culture From where, from my, from

my perception, you know, from, uh…

I was living in New Jersey at the time, and it was a major impact.

and, but prior to that, I mean, I've always been into music.

It's always been part of my life, and, especially since I was born in Cuba and,

and there was music everywhere you went.

on the radio.

I mean, we had radios, but of people playing live.

In street corners, and in bars, and in casinos, and in restaurants, and in

school, in picnics, uh, at the beach.

Everybody brought some percussion instruments, and there would be,

like, 100 families at the beach, and everybody's got their own thing going on.

And, and they actually, they brought that to Miami.

Even when I was in Miami, uh, which was my first stop, after, we left Cuba, pe-

the families carry the same tradition.

We had this, uh,

whatever it's called, uh, w- w- uh, I forget the name of the, of the, beach,

but it was, like, not too far from, like, Little Havana, and we would go there, uh,

all the families would bring percussion instruments and just, bring their, their,

their Cuban sandwiches and, uh, and have a little party at the beach every weekend.

That was, that was, that was part, part of our, uh, cultural, experience.

music has always been a part of my life.

Now, making a decision to make it my life, uh, work and what I wanted to do

my life, uh, that, that took longer.

That, that was, like, basically after the Beatles and then

once I was in high school.

My first professional job was I had just finished high school in 1969,

and r- I'm about to e-enter college, to study more music, get more of a, a

music degree, I started playing clubs.

So my first job was at the Topless Tomboy Club in North Miami, and as a

matter of fact, I wrote a, I wrote a song about it because I, I was 19 years old.

Well, actually, I was 18 when I started, and I turned 19 when I, when

I was in, playing at, at, at the club.

I, I experienced for the very first time, how rough all the ladies, that

were dancing it, with things going on at home, could tell there were,

there was physical abuse and mental abuse, and you could also see when

partners or husbands would pick them up, what kind of a

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

What types of people you would pick that them up.

And this is '60s, which is very, I would say, like very pure.

Pure in its own

low life.

Jason K Powers: Yeah

They were called drifters back then, and it was, it was romanticized

to be a drifter and to get into trouble and to like, be an outlaw.

But they, the women would suffer, uh, from that.

So I, I, I wrote a song about that.

It's called For the Love of Love.

That's one of these… That was the second song that I released, and I'm,

I'm sure people listen to the song and have no idea what, what the lyrics are

about, but, but, but that's what it is.

It, it's, it's about com- compassion.

Compassion for

Jason K Powers: Oh yeah

what they have been through, and also compassion for the

life they lead that you never see that reflected when they get up on stage

and, and pretend to be glamorous and so on, just so they could get, tips

Jason K Powers: Get paid, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep

Jason K Powers: Well, so what, um, where did you transition into you start playing

the bass, and then how did you get from doing that to what was the next step?

Yeah, because, playing in a club for me was like, it was, it was

getting an education because not only did I get to play and make a living

from playing, so it's kinda like getting paid on the jo- you know, as you learn.

but also I got to watch other musicians because, they had different

bands playing during the night.

We would take a break and a, another band would come in and, and so on, nonstop.

There was nothing being played over the speakers like a DJ or…

This is 1969 going into '70.

DJs had really not come in until disco made it, made its way into

the industry of live entertainment.

and that was, like, maybe three or four years later, '72, '73, '74,

when disco really came in hard.

And I'm ta- I'm not talking just the music being played on the radio, I'm talking

about the music being played in the clubs.

They were, they had the DJ playing records, and which is, it comes down

to economics, and it started really the gay bars, gay bars that started in New

York, and of course I'm living in Miami at the time, and you have all these

snowbirds that would come down during the winter and carry the same lifestyle

in Miami, South Beach, and so on.

So, uh, a lot of the discos started opening up and popping up, and

then as I'm playing in, in a rock club, I, I witness from the stage

that the girls were disappearing.

Where are the girls?

What happened

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

They don't wanna hear a bunch of rock guys playing and

get hit by a bunch of drunks.

No, they just wanna go to a gay disco and dance and just be left alone.

"We just wanna dance, we just want a good time with, with my, with my

friends." we discovered that, and

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

I, I started going to gay, to gay discos just to meet girls.

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

That's the only place that I could find them.

Jason K Powers: To minimize the company.

Yeah, and there's-- there was no competition.

Jason K Powers: Right.

That's right.

That's funny.

Well, how did you get… So Miami,

Oh

Jason K Powers: doing things in Miami and building up, and

Yeah.

Jason K Powers: what ended up taking you to, you know-

Yeah.

Well, once disco came in, I had to change my, my, my personal playlist

what I wanted to play on stage.

And, because we could get away with doing, like, like Led

Zeppelin, that's on the radio.

If it's on the radio, you can play Led Zeppelin.

Or you could play The Who, uh, Deep Purple, "Smoke on the

Water" and things like that.

The Stones.

Yeah, people like to dance to The Stones, especially in that era, late '70s when

Jimmy Miller started producing the band, and he brought in a lot of percussion,

like for "Sympathy for the Devil" and, uh, "Can You Hear Me Knocking," the la-

the, the, the section at the end where it gets, like, really with congas and stuff.

And so, so we used to, like… We actually, ma-matter of fact, we, we,

we got a conga player in the band so we could play rock songs but with congas

because, bands like Traffic also had that, that very percussive, uh, reco-

you know, production of the records.

So, uh, but it got to a point that I had to make a decision.

A, a… A-and it was not even, I didn't even have to think about it t-too much

because it was like, it was more like how can I become a recording artist

Miami, which is really a, a tourist area.

They don't want you to play your original music.

They want you to play for the tourists who come down just to dance.

This is not a concert.

You're not, this is

Jason K Powers: Yeah

this is a bar and, we got this little stage here so you could play

music for this big dance floor with, we're gonna get people dancing and sweating

and buying drinks, and it was like, well, I, I, I wanna be a recording artist.

And, and some of the greatest recording studios were actually in Miami.

There's a place called Criteria that just about every great record

of the '70s was recorded there.

But you

Jason K Powers: Really

record there and afford to record there if you had

a record deal, but you were not gonna, but there were no labels in

Miami, only this recording studio.

So I had to, like, get out of Miami and eventually wound up in LA and,

uh, that's in Quiet Riot w- in, in '78 with Randy Rhoads in the band

and Kevin DuBrow and Drew Forsyth.

That was the first original band that I, that I've ever played with.

That, that was o- that was the goal, to get a record deal.

And to get a record deal you have to showcase for the labels, now

you gotta play original music

Jason K Powers: Yep.

Yep.

So how did you end up finding Quiet Riot?

two things.

I found them and then they fi- they found me

Jason K Powers: Yeah

I met Kevin Dubrow one of m- in 1977, I had moved with, actually

with Frankie Banali and, and, and my other mem- member of the group that

I was playing with at the time in, in Chicago area, Bob Marlette, who is a

very well, well, very established and successful producer, but he was our guitar

player at the time and keyboard player.

And, we moved together to Los Angeles, and I was just going out and just

hanging because there's no th- th- there's no internet at that time,

so you ha- you, for in order for you to connect with people, network, you

have to, you have to leave the house.

Jason K Powers: That's right

And so I'm in

Jason K Powers: Three

and, the Rainbow Bar & Grill, which was the, the,

the network, place to be at.

I was there every night just like everybody else, just trying to meet people

and socialize and see what that night could bring as far as, like, is there

a possibility of meeting somebody who could open the door for you to audition

or maybe find another musician to, uh, having the band, because sometimes

people just went, went in and out of the bands, and somebody found a better

situation in another band, so now you gotta look to replace that person.

So it was a constant flow of, of musicians and friends, that you were making, and

you always understood as to why they left or why they are coming into the group.

And, uh

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

So that's, that's, uh, so I went out to, I went out to the Whisky to

see Van Halen that was sold out, sold out.

So somebody says, "Hey, there's a, there's a, there's a place down

the street you might wanna go.

It's called the Starwood." I say, "Okay." and I went there, and there

was Quiet Riot was playing live.

I had never heard of them before, and I, I was really impressed by the presentation.

They had more of a, uh… the time, m- of all the bands that I've seen a-

all over the country, because I was… I had been touring playing clubs all

over the country, they had it the most together as far as, like, a vision to…

They, they, they approached it kinda like a, an arena band playing in a club

Jason K Powers: Okay.

uh, the attitude on stage and the presentation and,

and, and the music, everything.

And, and of course what caught my eye the most was Randy Rhoads, the

guitar player, who, I w- I… He went on to play with Ozzy, and he

introduced me to Ozzy and Sharon.

That's how I joined Ozzy.

um, and, uh, I could see that he had a major fan base, but it was, like, a

really strong fan base, not something that you develop in a couple of weeks.

I mean, these people, these girls mainly, were all dressed like him.

He used to wear these little vests with polka dots and bow ties with polka dots.

And, it w- it was, it was very young-oriented,

almost, teenybopper appeal.

But at that time, in right before punk and new wave, that, that was very

appealing to the labels to have, to,

Jason K Powers: Yep

have, like, idols playing music, rock music.

And this guy could really play.

I mean, he, he checked all the boxes.

He looked like a teen idol.

He played his ass off.

He was a great composer, even at that time.

And then once he joined Ozzy, it's a whole different level.

That's why he's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame all by himself, as, as

a solo artist, and so, that, I, I, I was really impressed by what I saw.

And, it's a club, so I'm like… I'm, hanging, and I see Kevin, the

singer, Kevin DuBrow walking down.

And is… I, I always do this with bands that I think that That they deserve to

be told that they're going in the right direction because they, they happen to be.

my experience.

My experience meaning, like, if I tell somebody, "Listen,

keep doing what you're doing.

You're going the right direction," it's because I've seen everybody else

and they're not, but you guys are. "So

Jason K Powers: Yeah

get discouraged.

You're gonna get there.

You got it more together than everybody I've seen around the

country." That's what I told Kevin.

And he remembered that, so that was the last time I saw him and,

and then we ran out of money.

I mean, at that, in 1977, and then I ran out of money that I had

saved playing, playing the bars in the Midwest when we moved to LA.

And Frankie and, and Bob Marlette and I, we just went separate ways,

and I went over to New Jersey to play with my brother's lounge band

in the, in the lounge circuit.

A lot of Howard Johnson's, back then in '70, '78, '77,

'78.

And so I got the money together, went back to LA, and a couple of days before

I flew out back to LA, I get a phone call from Kevin he's been trying to

track me down because they need… They were looking for a… They are looking

for a bass player and they… And he said that everybody kept saying, "Yeah,

you gotta check this guy Rudy out."

So he had no idea until he… Somebody told him, "Yeah, he's in, he's in

New Jersey," that I was coming back.

I already had my ticket and everything arranged to return to Los Angeles.

So I, I did.

I auditioned for the band as soon as I got into town, that's how

I wound up playing in Quiet Riot

Jason K Powers: Wow.

Yeah.

And the rest is history, as they say, right?

Well, still, still being written.

Jason K Powers: Right.

That's right.

Well, so then, uh, you guys kind of, you recorded, uh, Mental Health

and put that out, and that did very well a few years later, right?

1983. And

I mean, from, from that, when I joined the band in 1978, there

was a lot of things that happened.

First of all, uh, Randy hooked up with Ozzy Osbourne.

He left, left Quiet Riot.

The Quiet Riot ceased to exist.

And, uh, this is 1979, so there was no Quiet Riot.

I went on to do a couple other things, but eventually, well, I wound up playing

with Kevin in his band called DiBro.

I moved in with Kevin at his apartment, and I was playing in the band.

And th- this is 1980 when I joined, and I was with him playing in the

band and living with him until 1981, April of 1981, and that's when I

got the call to audition for Ozzy.

But Randy had already recorded two records from that span that I'm telling you about.

It's like we

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm

we were… He, he's like, when things… In, in

LA, things move really slow,

Jason K Powers: Yeah

at that time because there was not much going on unless

you were a punk or a new wave artist.

But if you were a f- a '70s… now they're looking into the '80s, the music

industry, and, uh, but if you were, like, a traditional '80s glam rocker, is

what we were at the time on the Sunset Strip, you were considered a dinosaur.

So, so while we were struggling, Randy made these two legendary albums

with Ozzy, Diary of a Mad Man and Blizzard of Oz. Uh, and then in April

of 1981 is when I got the phone call to come in a- an audition for Ozzy.

I went from sleeping on the floor in Kevin DuBro's apartment that

morning to, to going, to moving in.

Sharon's, Arden at the time, but Sharon's Ozzy's wi- wife.

She, later on, she invited me to move in because, well, Tommy Aldridge was

staying there, Ozzy was staying there, this huge mansion in the Hollywood Hills.

And, so, once I was in the band

It's like it went from like black and white to, to WandaVision

Jason K Powers: Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, so from the business side of it for you, having y- you're, you're

changing bands and, and what kind of… What was the industry like through

from your perspective in terms of how were you best making money back then?

And we'll kinda transition that later to, to what's it like today,

'cause it's a different ballgame today in this music industry.

So what, what was it like for you trying to navigate the, the

financial side of that back then?

Yeah, at that point, I was not in the industry until I, I joined Ozzy.

So outside of that, before that, I was outside the industry trying to get in,

and meanwhile on, trying to survive, so I had day jobs, stuff that I did, uh,

and people ask me what can I recommend to musicians that are trying to make it.

Get a job at a restaurant.

It's where you'll never go hungry as long as you're working at a restaurant.

Which is, which is what I did.

I wor- I worked at a couple of them.

I like meeting people and serving people, service, and I learned how to

make a veggie burger because it was a, uh, The place was called McNatural's.

That's the place that I, that, that I was working at.

And are you familiar with Los Angeles history?

Jason K Powers: A, a little bit here and there, right?

okay, on the Sunset Strip.

Yeah, there were, there were a few vegetarian, strictly vegetarian

restaurants that were introduced by one family, the Baker family.

There's actually a documentary about this man, Jim Baker, who brought in veganism

into Hollywood, and also he had a cult.

So everybody that

Jason K Powers: Of the, yeah.

Okay

belonged to the cult.

And then he moved the cult to Hawaii, and he jumped off a cliff

because he thought he could fly, and, and unfortunately he couldn't.

And, But his family remained behind.

They were still involved with the restaurants, like the Old

World, The Source, uh, the Velvet Turtle, and McNatural's.

McNatural's was supposed to be-- That was a, an experimental kitchen to create a,

a, an alternative to McDonald's, but a

Jason K Powers: Okay

health food version of McDonald's.

Everything was super healthy, including veggie burgers.

And

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

at that, it-- this is 1970…

Well, I just joined Quiet Riot, '78.

'78, '79. I used to make the veggie burger with grains.

We had not found the formula that later on Bill Gates came up with for the, the

It's-- I Can't Believe It's a Burger or the Impossible Burger or whatever.

Uh, but no, it wa- it was all made with grains and vegetables.

So it was ve- very hard to, to, to put on the grill, and we had separate grill.

The grill for the vege- the vegetables, and a grill for the meat, and the chicken,

and the beef, and stuff like that.

So, uh,

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

I got my, my education in, uh, in r- basically running a, a, a, a, uh, a

Jason K Powers: Doing that

Uh, restaurant, yeah.

Fast

Jason K Powers: Yep.

Yep

You went, you went with Ozzy for f- a couple of years, right?

And then back to doing Quiet Riot.

No.

Jason K Powers: re- re-

Yes.

Ye- uh, no and yes.

No, meaning that when I went back to, it was actually still Dubrow.

was called Dubrow.

Once I rejoined the band, it got renamed Quiet Riot.

But it was actually Dubrow that went in the studio to record.

The band Dubrow, which included Frankie Banali in the band,

of course, Carlos Cavazo.

Yeah

Jason K Powers: Yeah, yeah.

And then of course, the mental health got kicked out in 1983,

which was a great success.

How did that change the, uh, trajectory or did it?

You think it… I think it did.

It changed the trajectory, the more committed trajectory

of Quiet Riot at that point

Well, I think it's, it changed the trajectory of just about

every local band, now it gave them hope.

Because now it, it… The hope came from all, all of a sudden the local

labels, local meaning, all the big major labels were local to Los Angeles and

New York, maybe some offices in Chicago.

all of a sudden they realized that these guys went to number

one, maybe there's some other bands like them the Sunset Strip.

Of course there were.

were all, we, we all had been playing on the Strip, early versions of Mötley Crüe,

even Mötley Crüe used to play with Dio.

I, I was out of the band by then.

I was playing with Ozzy when that happened, but, but, but

I… They, they had a history.

bands like Ratt and Great White, Dokken, and so on, so there were bands

already ready to go to get signed.

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it was, it was quite something back then with, with all the, uh, bands

popping up and the, and, and the long-term success of so many of these bands,

oh,

Jason K Powers: What did that kind of success do, what did that kind of

success do for, the business, uh, and financial side of the band for you guys?

Like

well, it's, it was different back then because one of the things

that, that the music industry was really good at is to, is, was keeping

curtain to The Wizard of Oz shut.

You were never allowed to peek beyond the curtain of how the industry ran.

was like, okay, you guys go and you make a r- go in the studio, make a record.

gonna put you on the road.

keep touring it's time to make another record.

We never got a phone call.

I mean, I have friends and, like, that we would socialize at events and,

and, like major people, we w- we were friends, but we never talked business.

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

They… Any business that was conducted was between

our manager and the record company

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

You

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm

and that's the way it used to be.

You could… and then you h- you have a lawyer for everything, and

then you have a business manager.

Uh, you never really knew how much… I mean, I knew, I knew I was making money

because I would get royalty statements.

But it's like, the, you hire the business manager.

You're told by management, "Listen, advise you to hire a business manager so while

you're busy creating and touring, these people are investing your money." You

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

so you have to do everything on faith.

You don't know what, what they're doing with your money, after that period,

I, w- pretty much my wife and I… Actually her, she started to take care

of the money because I was busy touring.

And it was like, we're, we're… I'm making all this money, but I'm

giving percentage away for people for just basically paying bills.

And she said, "I can

Jason K Powers: Right.

Mm-hmm.

"I can do that." They're putting money into some 401and, and

then, n- not, not much else with it.

It wasn't like they were… I mean, now, now I have a whole different structure,

I have, I have friends who are in the, in finance, and they give me…

we sit, we sit down once a year right when we meet in LA, and we plan and,

and then we move forward, back then… But, but now I take care of my own

business and, we're, we're… And, and

When… Okay, in the '80s.

Okay, rock 'n' roll started in ni- in the '50s, '55, let's say we'll call that

the, the year just to make it simple.

'55 and then it kinda like dwindle when Elvis went to the army and Little Richard

became a minister and Chuck Berry got arrested for bringing some girl across

the state line, things like that.

Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousin, that didn't go over very well.

Then the rock music kinda like went downhill as far as the image, radio

started playing less and less of it.

then the British Invasion happened, and that just like they couldn't control

that because it was coming from England.

So somebody in, in, in, g- government the United States realized that, wait

a minute, these people are generating a lot of money in taxes for, for us So all

of a sudden it's like, okay, hands off.

These guys, the Beatles and the Stones and the, we, we let them do whatever.

Th- this is just a fad.

It's not gonna last.

And it did, of course.

but it was the fact that all of a sudden… any group that goes on a

stadium tour, just like the Beatles and the Stones wound up doing really

quickly, like, selling Shea Stadium and, and it wasn't just the Beatles.

It was just like, uh, just about everybody that became big.

That's, that's it.

And a, a, a traveling economy that goes from city to city.

And especially nowadays, when you go, when you go to a show, let's say even i-

in a big arena, as soon as you enter the parking lot, your, your wallet's open,

of course, now you do it through your cards, but still, you're spending money.

You spend money in there, and then you have a row of merchandisers where they're

selling all the shirts and hats and whatever, records sometimes of the bands.

And the, the, the venue, whether it's Live Nation or maybe an

ind- independent promoter or whatever, take a huge cut of it.

They did not used to take a cut before because they were

all independent promoters.

And you could, you could make a better deal with an independent promoter rather

than some- somebody like Live Nation who actually just runs everything, so

it's not, not much of a negotiation unless you're a major artist and then

of course, but if you're kinda like in the middle, kinda like set, like

this is what you're gonna make, is what we're gonna take from what you

make, and so you either agree or not.

You

Jason K Powers: Great

or you, you don't.

That's, it's, that's the way the business is today, know?

And, but there's so much money generated, th- because let's say you're, most of the

acts nowadays are just single artists.

Single means that it, there's a name, and then they bring a

band, and they bring a crew.

The… Everybody's on salary.

Everybody gets paid so that, the money passes hands.

Then you got the, uh, you, you have the, the, the riggers, the people

that hang the stuff from the rafters.

You have the spotlight operators.

You have, have catering.

You have everybody that, that runs the, the production backstage, which

is actually Part of the production team that is not traveling with you,

but the local promoter or whoever, let's say even if you're Live

Nation, there's local representatives representing Live Nation at their venue.

That, that is… that gener- generates jobs time

Jason K Powers: Yep

yeah, like I mentioned, catering and anything, connected with

what the, the runner, which means that it's gonna go out and get stuff

for the artist or the crew, the crew meals being presented and all of that.

So by… And, you're, we're, n- we're not even talking about the concession

stand, about, when the audience buys food or or a drink or something, at the show.

That generates a lot of money.

So

Jason K Powers: Bret

going per head.

As far as merchandising, and I can tell you this, uh, back in the '80s

when ticket prices were, like, $5, they

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

they would say, "Okay, $5 for the ticket." And each person

in you're the opening band and you're a hot opening band, which means that

your album is in the charts, you're probably gonna make 5.50 a head.

And then the headliner were anywhere between 7.50 and $10 a head on T-shirts

and, tour books and, and all that.

And so imagine a 10,000-seater, 5.50 a head cash.

This is the, the '80s.

There were no credit cards at the time that the kids were

using, that was a lot of money.

And I know because I

Jason K Powers: Right

The, the, the, the merchandising company that would travel

with us, they would have their own truck and load it up with boxes, and

every time they would run out, they would… in the next town, they'll,

they will be shipped to the next hotel and pick up all the other boxes

for the rest of the shows and so on.

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

it was a lot of money.

There was, we were making about… Of course, it goes… Then a, a, it's because

it w- this merchandi- you cut a deal with the merchandising company, and then they

give you a percentage of what they sell.

They, they, they pay for the, for the cost of traveling from venue to venue.

Whoever vendors they have to hire at different booths throughout the arena to

sell the merchandise, they have to pay for the making of the merchandise, and so on.

So you're basically getting a cut of what is being generated.

Then at the, at the end of the tour, the, the merchandising company

gives you a check for the band.

You give your percentage to the manager, and for the rest you put it in the bank

or pay taxes and then, it in, some kind of a money-generating back in the day,

Jason K Powers: Something

again, uh, I, I had an accountant that would deal

with all of that in those days.

Now I de- I deal with it.

I do have an accountant that does my taxes, but as far as the, the, the in-

the flow of income, because I, I, I…

y- it's, it's different now.

It comes in monthly, and it's very transparent.

When you have a record, like let's say a legacy song like Come and Feel the Noise

or Bang Your Head, that is being played globally in non-terrestrial, uh, which

would be Sirius or Spotify, it generates.

As long as it's terrestrial, uh, musicians do not get paid for

performance on the, on the record.

But if you're part of the record deal, you're signed to the record deal that

that record came from and, and that, and that music gets played satellite radio

or internet, you get a cut of that.

It's a company, it's called SoundExchange.

sure you, you, you've heard of it.

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm,

Yeah

Jason K Powers: Well, so, well, so looking back across, Quiet Riot and

Ozzy and, and Whitesnake and so forth, what's one of the biggest financial

lessons you maybe learned the hard way?

It had to do actually with real estate.

You

Jason K Powers: Oh yeah?

in the '80s until we had like the, uh, the… at the end of the

'80s, kind of like the, the, the real estate market just really took a dump,

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

going into the '90s.

that, that was like our, our, our biggest, loss, financial loss, with,

with our own personal real estate.

And we used to keep like, like a couple places

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

because, um, my, uh, my wife's mom was living with us and, and

we, we were… is like 30-something years ago, 35 years ago, and we were younger

and, and, we would have like social, we would be more social than we are

now, and we'd have parties and so on.

So we said, "Well, maybe we should get an- another place so we don't bother mom,

and we can get another place somewhere else like Malibu or whatever, and, have

it as, as a getaway," and so for a while we, we would keep like two, two properties

As an

Jason K Powers: And just didn't panic

and as a, yeah, a lifestyle thing.

Yeah

Jason K Powers: Yeah, yeah.

so what, what's one thing you wish someone had told you maybe about the business side

when you were starting out in those early first, let's say through the '80s, right?

That is a great question because no matter-- when you're young,

no matter what anybody tells you, you're gonna do what you wanna do

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

You say, "It's my

Jason K Powers: Yeah

it's my life.

I wanna do what I wanna do." Now that I should have listened

follow what their advice is completely different, but I didn't,

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

know?

But

Jason K Powers: Yeah

have to learn from your own experience

Jason K Powers: Sure, sure.

What do you think some advice anyway would be for the people starting out today?

I mean, it's a different game today,

Oh,

Jason K Powers: and those up and coming

I know it's so hard for me to even wrap my head around

how the new generation does it.

But, but then again, it was hard for us also when we--

when, when I was starting out.

So, I see music as a calling.

It's a… You, you can't help it, but do-- but to be a musician

is like, like being a priest.

A priest cannot help but being a priest.

That's it.

That's, that's their calling, or a doctor, whatever.

Uh, mine happens to be a musician, and I'm not alone.

There's, there's, there's a lot of us, uh, my goodness.

I know this is, this is a finance conversation we're having, but

I say, music is not something you do f- because of money.

If you wanna do something for money, become a lawyer.

Jason K Powers: Yeah,

if, if that's your o- that's, that's the outcome

that you're looking for, know, I

Jason K Powers: Right, right

make a lot of money, be a lawyer.

Don't be a musician.

There's no guarantee.

Yeah, I think you, you have a better chance of succeeding if

you're a really good lawyer.

I mean, you could be a shredder in the guitar and not make a, a cent, but you

could be the equivalent of a shredder as a lawyer, and you'd have a really

good chance of, of, of doing well

Jason K Powers: Sure, sure.

Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of conversations about when you are

making money, 'cause obviously those in the industry would prefer

to make a living at it also.

It'd be nice to do what you love doing and make money doing it.

Uh, whether, no matter how successful, right?

Whether you're, you're making multi six figures or making 50

grand a year, it's financial, uh, literacy, for example, there's a

big hole there, and we have those conversations a lot because there's not

you, y- yeah, you can't make a-- You, you, you're gonna

make a, a living at $50,000 a year

Jason K Powers: No, right.

Right.

Uh, I

Jason K Powers: But it's just helping

young person?

No, no.

No, it's,

Jason K Powers: Yeah

it's impossible.

I

Jason K Powers: Ja

think long term.

I mean, and then again, this is, I'm, I'm 75, and I'm still active, I'm

still having fun, which is what is very important because people know if you're

miserable up on stage and they don't, they're not gonna, they don't want,

they don't wanna pay money to come and see misery because they probably have

Jason K Powers: Right

misery to, to stare at in the mirror.

They just wanna be like, and, have fun.

Forget about the misery.

So,

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

I'm having, I'm having a blast playing, still playing.

I, I, I… People ask me many things as, about at this point

in my, in, in my career, and I say, "I'm just getting started."

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

I'm discovering new things about myself music, about things that

I knew were there all along, but I'm discovering ways to express them,

Jason K Powers: Yeah

is completely different than,

Jason K Powers: Yeah

just saying, "Oh, I don't know I could do this."

No, it's, it's, I didn't know I, I, I could use this technology

to do this, which is completely different than limiting yourself

to who you can be as a creator, and

Jason K Powers: Right.

Right

so to me, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm just getting started completely,

Jason K Powers: Uh,

you

Jason K Powers: well, and, and you had said, you had made a comment, um, about

not do- you, you doing solo music and not doing solo music 'cause you need the

money, but I mean, out of the love of it.

And,

Yeah

Jason K Powers: so let's talk about that for a second.

You just released, uh, two singles recently,

Yeah

Jason K Powers: And you are, putting it all out yourself.

You're

Yeah

Jason K Powers: you're not, there's not too many hands in the pot, so to speak

there's two hands.

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

That's great.

Well, so tell me about

w- are, are you talking about the creative part or the financial part?

Jason K Powers: no.

Well, no, the, the, the financial pod, I guess, 'cause you,

you didn't… That's right.

Well

There's not even, there's not even a tipping bowl

that you put on top of a piano.

No, I'm not taking tips.

There's no bowl.

You can listen to it for free

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

Yeah.

Because

Jason K Powers: out

See, once I start charging money for music, then I gotta

think of do they want me to hear?

What, what, what does the audience want to hear?

And that is what I've been doing all my life, trying to please

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

the industry, trying to outguess, the, is the au- is

the gonna really like the song?

Because that's what you're dealing with.

If you're not appealing to the masses, you're out of, out of the competition,

so as long as I become an independent artist, completely independent, writing

music to please myself And it's music to please and express in a, in a way…

Okay, I've written a book, had a podcast, I've done 100 episodes where I talked

about my life and, and so on, and, and but at the core, the best way to leave

a philosophy behind is with a song.

Because people will read a book once or twice.

They'll watch a documentary about your life maybe once, maybe

never again, and, and so on.

But a song, if you really like the song, if you really connect with it,

you're g- you can listen to that one song every day for the rest of your life

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's true.

It's true.

I love that perspective, though.

And y- these two singles, so even those two singles that

were out, you've talked about.

Tell me about there is Your Heart is the Road.

Yeah

Jason K Powers: You wrote that,

Yeah.

Jason K Powers: your wife

Yeah, well, it's… Yes, because it's, it, it, it actually,

the song follows, uh, from, uh, all, the whole lyric what it's like when I

get up at 2:30 in, in the morning to leave by, well, actually 2:15, leave by

3:00 AM to make it to, to the airport lot, take a shuttle, go and check

in, and go through TSA by 4:00 AM.

It just follows through… I mean, I'm not talking about TSA on, in the song, but

it's me going on the road every weekend.

Yeah, our generation, the bands we, that, that, the '80s, by… unless

they're on a specific tour, meaning, like, there's a beginning and an end

to the tour that you know exactly where you're gonna be playing for, for about

three months, six months in advance.

That's the way we used to do it back in the day.

We used to do tours to promote the record that people would buy.

That's the key word.

People would buy records.

Now you make a record, you give it away for free to promote the tour,

and then the only way to do that is to actually, in the days in between,

you are home, but then you fly out to do two or three shows, whatever.

This summer we got five, five shows in a row, sections of our

tour, and then you come back home.

know, and there's a process to it about leaving your family behind, and I've

known this for a fact, that as soon as I step in my garage, in my car, go out,

it's, it's about the trip coming home.

It's about, it's about me ma- making it back to my family.

know, I'm gonna enjoy what I'm gonna do on stage, but one- once that

stage, I'm done with performing, to, about getting as much sleep as I can.

be in the lobby by 3:00 in the morning in, at the hotel to catch another 5:30

in the morning flight to get back home.

We all do this.

So the song is about that.

It's about my family and, and, and me, my commitment to my family.

And, but if you listen to the last verse, it's beyond that.

It's about coming home no matter what

Meaning, because the last verse is that, I've, I've, I, I was on tour with

Ozzy when Randy Rhoads passed away.

So I know for, for a fact from experience that everybody gets to come back home.

But in the song, I wanted to give that either I'm coming home in the

body or I'm coming home in the spirit,

this is home

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

I love it.

I love it.

And we'll put, links in the show notes for the listeners to be able

to go check that song out and his other one, which is For the Love of

Love, which was alluded to earlier,

Yeah

Jason K Powers: which is about where you first played when you

first getting started, right?

Yeah.

And I, I'm about to upload to, to Spotify today, one called Time Is A Woman

Jason K Powers: Okay, great.

We'll have that

they're all, they're all very different.

See, I'm 75, so I have this love affair with time that I

Jason K Powers: Yeah

had before.

Jason K Powers: Sure

less you have of it, the more it means to you, you

Jason K Powers: Yes

And so that's what the song is

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

It's

Jason K Powers: I'm excited

it's a love song to time itself because just

like love, you can't buy it.

You can't, you can't buy real love and you can't buy time

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I love it.

I'm excited for it to come out.

Go check it out.

Well, I know we are winding down, and I appreciate you taking the time.

We usually try to wrap up with something we call final riffs.

It's just rapid-fire questions, rapid-fire answers, and then we'll wind it down.

You ready?

Okay

Jason K Powers: All right.

First concert you ever went to

Vanilla Fudge

Jason K Powers: All right.

Most embarrassing moment on stage?

Do you have one

Yeah.

Um

Uh, I… nobody saw it.

It was… We, in Quiet Riot in 1984, had these… It was kinda like a

ramp that would bring us up, up on stage on a, on a… Because we

had, like, this stupid big staging.

And, but what, w- what, what made the ramp go up and down, kinda like a little

elevator, we were, like, in a cube like this, a shaft going up and down, was a,

a, a Black & Dec- Black & Decker drill.

So they used the, the drill to move the, the chain to pull us up, and it would

usually blow out before we got to the top.

So the intro music is happening, so you know that you have to get out

of the hole in that shaft before the music happens, but it's all dark, so

people are not really, cannot see you because, it, there's, it's a dark stage.

it's like, you're you're trying to, like, avoid the moment that the lights

go on and you're coming out of a hole and you should be playing at that point.

Yes.

Jason K Powers: to get out still.

Yeah,

Jason K Powers: funny.

one of

Jason K Powers: All right

favorite moments on the road, yeah, yeah

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

If you could stare, share, if you could share the stage with anyone

alive or gone, who would it be?

Shared the stage?

Oh my God.

Um, alive?

Oof.

That's, that's a good question.

Most, most of the people have passed on.

I don't know.

shared the stage with a lot of people, uh

Jason K Powers: Yeah, beautiful

Yeah, I, I don't know.

I don't

Jason K Powers: All right.

Yeah.

That's,

Jason K Powers: One…

good one.

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

Stumped you.

One city or venue you would never forget playing at

That, that I love playing at?

Jason K Powers: Yeah

City, I love playing in LA because I get to go home after

the show and sleep in my own bed.

And I, I don't have to get up to be in the lobby at 3:00, 3 o'clock in the morning.

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

Time, right?

Time.

if you were not a musician, what would you be doing?

Trying to become a musician

Jason K Powers: Trying to become a musician.

There you go.

Through and through.

All right.

Closing, any last piece of advice you would give a musician going out today

in today's world in the music industry?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and, and it's a two, two-layered question is, uh, or answer.

yeah, if you're in the music industry for money, yeah, get out.

But if you're in the industry the love of music and you make money, hold onto it.

Make some… Make, get yourse- uh, th- there's always people that you know from

your parents or friends that will guide you to the right, um, financial manager.

Save your money.

Don't blow it.

They, they had this show on MTV I thought it was, like, the worst inf-

influence on, on the youth, especially the ones who were trying to break in

the music industry, which was Cribs.

Cribs.

Cribs.

All the

Jason K Powers: I remember

all the, and, and I'm going… And, and by that time, that

was in the, 2000, so I'd already been through that You know, it's

Jason K Powers: Yeah

get o- off the road or the tour, get, get another house.

Get, get a bigger house.

Do this.

No.

Hold onto your money.

Find a place you're happy with, make that a home.

A bigger house does not be- it's not make your home more of a home.

It's the people in the house that makes the home.

the heart of, of, of, of the house.

It's not how many jacuzzis it has or anything like that.

know.

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

it's, it's hard to put that across because I, I have been that stupid.

But you have to learn from it somehow,

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

So I'm, I'm basically I'm, I'm saying this only because you asked.

I would never tell anybody

Jason K Powers: Yes

but I'm just being… You, you wanted me, me to say something.

Yeah, h- hang onto your money.

Save it.

Uh, because it's, it's only gonna get more expensive.

Life is gonna get more expensive.

I look back at concert tickets being $5.

People were complaining, "Oh, man, it's $5 ticket here. $7.50, oh

my God." It's… You, you cannot even buy a hot dog for $7.50

Jason K Powers: Yeah

at a concert now, come on.

It, it's so expensive, and that's just, and that's just…

I'm using that as a reference.

Everything, gasoline.

When, when tickets were $5, a gallon of gas was 29 cents, back,

well, back in the '70s it was even cheaper to go to a concert.

It was $3.50

Jason K Powers: right.

It,

Jason K Powers: right

If, if you're 30 years old, in 60 years from now if you get to be 90,

think of how, how many times it's going to triple or quadruple what you, what

you pay for today, so save that money.

Save it because you're gonna need it.

We're all gonna need it, and that's, and that, and that's what I do nowadays.

I am very frugal with my expenses to be honest with you, been

buying stuff for the last 45

Jason K Powers: Yeah.

stuff.

I

Jason K Powers: Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah

It's like I'm trying to get rid of stuff, but, but anyway, so it's

like just… And it- but if you must, if you must make the mistakes, please

do learn from them like, like I did

Jason K Powers: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's wonderful advice, and I think it's so true.

I mean, everything's going up.

You gotta find a way to just make, taking a slice of what you have even, of what

you're making even, and just plan, put it into something, put it to something good.

And always

Jason K Powers: Cool

of what, of your finances, how much money you're spending.

I mean, gonna have to pay taxes on, on everything that you, that you make, and

according to where you live, I happen to be in California, there's, it's a lot of

taxes, local, local taxes, state taxes.

And, so yeah, just, if… Again, make music.

M- Have the music what is the most gratifying thing in your life.

Of course, your family too, but not how much money you can spend

Don't spend it.

Save it.

Invest it

Jason K Powers: Great.

Rudy, this has been an honor.

You have really lived more music history than most people in the business, and

the fact that you're still out there

I'm just getting

Jason K Powers: creating- Still out

now.

Jason K Powers: there … yep, still out there creating, still carrying that

torch, and still finding new ways to make music and, and on your own terms.

And, and that says everything about who you are.

Uh, for my listeners, go check out Rudy's new singles out on all

streaming channels, I believe.

We'll put links in the show notes to get there as well.

Keep an eye out on Quiet Riot for what comes next, and all the links

will be in the show notes again.

So if today's conversation got you thinking about the financial side of

your own music career, head on over to 1024wealth.com/music, grab the free guide.

Let's talk about building a system that actually works, much like this

conversation we just had, and it works for the way you live and work in music.

Rudy, thank you so much for being on.

I appreciate it.

having me.

Jason K Powers: Yes.

I'm Jason K. Powers.

Backstage Money, where music and money collide, and we'll see you guys next time.