Discover how women over 40 are leading systemic change and tackling audacious goals. In this episode, 42-year-old Kiersten Barnet, Executive Director of the NYC Jobs CEO Council, shares how she's coordinating Fortune 100 CEOs to hire 100,000 low-income New Yorkers—and they're already more than halfway there.

If you've ever wondered "is it too late to take on something impossibly big?" this conversation proves the answer is absolutely not. Kiersten reveals her practical strategies for breaking down overwhelming problems, asking better questions, and building the kind of authentic leadership that creates space for everyone behind you. From her annual "letter from the future" practice to her philosophy of "strategic neglect," she offers a masterclass in midlife ambition that's both grounded in research and beautifully human.

What You'll Learn

Career Change & Midlife Reinvention:

• How to pivot from corporate (15 years at Bloomberg) to mission-driven leadership after 40
• Why women's growth mindset peaks in their 40s and how to leverage it
• How to take on audacious goals without having all the answers first
• Why your "not knowing what you want to be" might actually be your superpower
• Strategic career pivots for women over 40 seeking meaningful work

Perimenopause & Menopause Era Leadership:

• How to lead major initiatives while raising small children in your 40s
• Work-life integration strategies that actually work (not the mythical "balance")
• Why scheduling self-care and date nights matters more than superhuman productivity
• Strategic neglect: giving yourself permission to let go of the "shoulds"
• Managing stress and overwhelm during perimenopause while leading high-stakes projects

Practical Midlife Success Strategies:

• The annual future-letter practice that turns goals into concrete action plans
• "Eat the frog first": why tackling the hardest thing in the morning changes everything
• How to ask the right questions of the right people when facing big problems
• Data collection vs. speculation: making better decisions by knowing your "customer"
• Why problems don't age well and how to build courage through immediate actio
• Breaking down impossible goals into digestible, actionable steps

Women 40+ in Leadership:

• How authenticity (not fitting a mold) makes you memorable and effective
• Why talking about your children and challenges publicly creates systemic change
• The evolution from "women couldn't make it work" to "this is the new norm"
• How to measure success when you're in the second half of your life
• Building courage capital through facing impossible-seeming challenges
• Midlife confidence building for women leaders

Systemic Change & Social Impact:

• How to coordinate massive coalitions (like Fortune 100 CEOs) toward common goals
• Why breaking down big problems into digestible pieces is the only way forward
• The importance of hiring and skilling local talent for economic mobility
• How private sector leadership can drive public sector change
• Why transferable skills from hourly work matter more than ever in the AI era

Key Timestamps

[00:00] Introduction to Kiersten Barnet and the NYC Jobs CEO Council's audacious goal

[02:45] "I don't think I knew any of the jobs I've had existed until basically just before I had them"

[04:15] How priorities shift in your 40s: from straight paths to what's right for right now

[06:00] Measuring success in the second half of life

[07:00] Why growth mindset peaks in your 40s

[08:00] The importance of questions and curiosity in leadership

[10:00] Breaking down systemic change: the 100,000 hiring goal explained

[11:15] The annual future-letter practice that transforms goal-setting

[14:00] "Is this what I want or what I'm supposed to want?"

[15:15] Strategic neglect: the art of not cooking dinner without guilt

[16:15] Why we blame work when stress often comes from elsewhere

[17:00] "Eat the frog first": tackling the hardest thing in the morning

[19:00] "Problems don't age well" - Jamie Dimon's advice on accountability

[20:00] The hardest part of coordinating Fortune 100 CEOs

[22:30] "This is mine to lose": holding yourself accountable without paralysis

[24:00] Knowing your customer: data collection over speculation

[27:15] How to ask for help from people whose time is extremely valuable

[29:00] The Google Career Certificates story: asking the right questions of the right people

[31:00] Why business has to see the value proposition (it's not charity)

[33:15] Living by the calendar: how structure creates work-life integration

[36:00] The kimono approach: wrapping all aspects of yourself into leadership

[37:30] Who inspires Kiersten: Dusty Jenkins

[38:45] Letting go of fitting the mold of what a leader "should" look like

[40:00] Helena Morrissey: CEO with 9 children who taught Kiersten about authentic leadership

[42:30] Why women talking about challenges publicly creates systemic change

[43:15] The secret code calendars: from hiding to openly prioritizing kids

[45:15] How to support the mission: hiring local talent, any size business

[48:00] Why hourly work experience makes candidates MORE competitive, not less

[50:00] Lived experience in the age of AI: leaning into what differentiates you

Guest Bio

Kiersten Barnet is the Executive Director of the NYC Jobs CEO Council, where she leads a coalition of Fortune 100 CEOs from companies including JP Morgan, IBM, Google, and Citigroup who have committed to hiring 100,000 low-income New Yorkers into family-sustaining jobs by 2030. Prior to this role, Kiersten spent 15 years at Bloomberg, where she led gender equality initiatives and helped shape how major companies globally report on social sustainability. She co-founded the US 30% Club, a group of influential CEOs including Warren Buffett and Larry Fink working to advance women in leadership, and sits on several nonprofit and advisory boards.

At 42, Kiersten brings two decades of experience in behavior change, workforce development, and systemic change to her mission of transforming NYC's hiring ecosystem. She is a mother of two and a passionate advocate for authentic, integrated leadership that makes space for the whole person.

Connect with Kiersten:

• LinkedIn
• NYC Jobs CEO Council

Host Bio

Aransas Savas is a veteran Wellbeing and Leadership Coach with over 20 years of experience at the intersection of behavioral research, coaching, and experience strategy. She has partnered with companies like Weight Watchers, Best Buy, Truist, and US Bank to apply behavior change science to customer journeys and has coached thousands of individuals and groups on wellbeing and leadership.

Aransas hosts The Uplifters Podcast, a 2023 Gold Signal Award winner, where she spotlights women over 40 who are doing big, brave things in the world—proving that midlife is when many women truly hit their stride. Based in Brooklyn, she's a 20-time marathoner, mother of two, and founder of LiveUp Daily.

Connect with Aransas:

• Website: theuplifterspodcast.com
• Instagram: @aransas_savas
• LinkedIn: Aransas Savas
• Newsletter: Subscribe at theuplifterspodcast.com
• TikTok: @theuplifterspodcast
• YouTube: @theuplifterspodcast
• Facebook: Aransas Savas

Keywords

#WomenOver40 #MidlifeMindset #CareerChange #PersonalGrowth #WomenEmpowerment #MidlifeLeadership #SystemicChange #WomenInLeadership #SecondActCareers #WorkforceDevelopment #StrategicPlanning #AuthenticLeadership #GrowthMindset #CareerPivot #WomenOver40Success #MidlifeReinvention #LeadershipAfter40 #ExecutiveLeadership #BehaviorChange #SocialImpact #EconomicMobility #NYCJobs #BloombergAlumni #FortuneHundredLeadership #CourageCapital #Perimenopause #Menopause #MenopauseCareerChange #PerimenopauseLeadership

Mentioned in This Episode:

This episode is sponsored by Nutrafol, the #1 dermatologist-recommended hair growth supplement clinically shown to improve hair growth and thickness. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter promo code UPLIFTERS.

The Uplifters Podcast is produced by LiveUp Coaching & Consulting LLC. New episodes drop weekly. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to ensure you never miss a story of courage, transformation, and midlife possibility.

TUP EP 137

Aransas SAvas: [00:00:00] Hey Uplifters. I wanna take a minute to talk about something personal to me. In my forties, I started noticing my hair was shedding more so a couple of months ago I [00:00:15] started using neutrophil. I'm already seeing so much less shedding and my teenage daughter who notices absolutely everything keeps commenting on how thick my hair looks.

As someone who's built my career around [00:00:30] rigorous science, I super love that Nutrafol was the first brand to clinically study hair thinning on menopausal women, which is why I am so proud to have them as a sponsor. Nutrafol takes a whole body approach to [00:00:45] hair health supporting you throughout your life stages.

You can see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. For a limited time. Nutrafol is offering our listeners. $10 off your first month [00:01:00] subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code uplifters. Welcome to the Uplifters podcast, where every week I get the super awesome privilege of [00:01:15] talking to women over 40 who were doing big, brave things in the world.

This week I get to talk to Kiersten Barnett. She's the executive director of the New York Jobs CEO Council. Where she's leading a coalition of. [00:01:30] Fortune hundred CEOs from companies you've heard of, like JP Morgan, IBM, Google Citigroup, who have all committed to hiring 100,000 low income New Yorkers into family sustaining [00:01:45] jobs by 2030.

Remarkably, they are already more than half toward that audacious goal. Prior to this, Kiersten spent 15 years at Bloomberg. She led gender equality and helped shape how major companies globally are [00:02:00] reporting on social sustainability. Kirsten also co-founded the US 30% Club, a group of influential CEOs, including Warren Buffet and Larry Fink, and sits on several nonprofit and advisory boards.

And yet [00:02:15] Kiersten, with all of this background, you probably didn't come into life with a crystal ball knowing you were gonna do all this. Important work in your life.

Kiersten Barnet: That's so true. I don't think I knew any of the jobs I've had [00:02:30] existed until basically just before I had them. Yeah.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah. And I mean, I, I think in some of them you have likely created the category in the conversation around these things.

Kiersten Barnet: Yes. Which I think we're gonna see even more of just as we think about where the future of work is going. I, I [00:02:45] think that's so true. I often tell. Younger people when they say, I want your job, or I want that job. I'm like, don't want those jobs. That job's either gonna be a 10th of a job in a year or it's gonna be 10 jobs in a year.

So just focus on what you'd like to do and moving forward. Yeah.

Aransas SAvas: Well [00:03:00] said. I love that. Yeah. I've given similar advice to my kids, which is. I have no idea where the world is going, so you might as well do something you really love doing and see what happens, because none of us actually have a crystal ball on that.

Kiersten Barnet: Yeah. Actually, [00:03:15] I have a funny story on that. My first job at Bloomberg, I was 22 or 23, and I was interviewing for an assistant role in the president's office, and my final interview was with him. And I remember I read Bloomberg by Bloomberg cover to cover the night before. I prepared so much. [00:03:30] I'm thinking the interview's going well, and at the end, the last question he asked me is.

So what do you wanna be when you grow up? And I said, I don't know. I haven't figured it out yet. And I left and thought, what a stupid answer. Like, I can't believe I didn't have an answer. Just, just, she should have said Bloomberg, like to start. [00:03:45] And later I was told that he left the interview and said to his chief of staff, I like her.

I asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up and, and she said she hadn't figured it out yet. He said, me neither. So anyway, I think, yeah,

Aransas SAvas: I love that. [00:04:00] So as a 20-year-old. What did you feel like was most important for you to bring to your work life?

Kiersten Barnet: I think as a 20-year-old, I was so focused on what I thought was a straight [00:04:15] path and I was, I actually think at 20, you know, I'm about to graduate college and I was already thinking, how many years do I need to work till I can go to business school?

What's the average, what am I supposed to, I mean, it, it was, my mindset was not always the way it is now as fluid. And, but [00:04:30] yeah, I think that can really hold people back because then most of the times when I veered from that path are actually when you know exceptional opportunities happened.

Aransas SAvas: What a great answer.

And you're 42 now. How do you, as a woman, officially now, at least [00:04:45] according to average lifespans, and for women in the US and the second half of your life, how do you think about what's important in choosing the roles that you take?

Kiersten Barnet: So that definitely changes over time and, and that's also advice I give to young people.

I mean, [00:05:00] there's so many reasons you take a job and there's so many reasons you stay in a job. And so there have been times in my life, like when I was 20, when, you know, finance, finances were exceptionally important. Had to pay the rent if I was gonna live in New York and you gotta pay your bills. I feel like I'm at a point in my life right now that is also [00:05:15] still important money, but for me, the impact piece is really important.

I have two small children and if I'm gonna leave them every day, I need to feel really good about what I'm leaving them for and good about the example I'm setting. So I think that, you know, things, things change. There were [00:05:30] also periods in my career where growth was the most important and I just wanted to make sure I, I was moving onward and upward at, you know, at a period when often women and others can get, tend to get stalled.

So I think it's important to diagnose at that specific point in [00:05:45] time what is important to you. And yeah, it, it's not always gonna be the same thing.

Aransas SAvas: What is right for right now is the question I often ask

Kiersten Barnet: what is right for right now. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Aransas SAvas: And so for you at this stage, how do [00:06:00] you measure success?

Kiersten Barnet: I am lucky enough that I feel, for most of my career, I get been excited to get up and go to work every day. And obviously. Everyone has bad days, but that's for the most part how I feel. I feel [00:06:15] like if that changes, then it probably means it's time to move on and, but as long as that's going, then I think that feels successful again, having a family, you redefine what success looks like so much.

Because you need to find that balance. And, and I think of [00:06:30] balance, not in a week or a month, but more like in a year. Do I feel overall that I'm, you know, spending enough time with my children, I'm able to focus on what's important now in, in my marriage, and also being able to have the impact that I wanna have in what I'm doing [00:06:45] professionally.

And yeah, I think if those things feel right, then like not broken, don't fix it. And when those things start to feel off is usually when it means you. You need to rebalance your, your priorities. I

Aransas SAvas: think as we grow up too, [00:07:00] grow up, I'm not even sure if that's, that's the word for it, but it feels like, you know, in, in the spirit of, there is research that shows our growth mindset peaks in our forties.

And so we are, as you said, you talked about growing as in sort of [00:07:15] positional power, right? Like you have titles and influence and the ability to make broader impact, but we're growing in terms of our understanding, our knowledge. Our networks, all of that as we age too. And [00:07:30] so as, as you think about that now, what do you feel like is most important for keeping you in a growth mindset?

Especially as a leader, where I think there can be a tendency sometimes to like be [00:07:45] at the top of an organization and feel a little bit like you have to have all the answers and so you stop asking questions.

Kiersten Barnet: Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. I think that that. Questions asking is so important both in leadership, but [00:08:00] in being effective at any job.

It's one of the things I look for most when hiring people too, is a sense of curiosity, because that's what's gonna lead you to ask the right questions. And you know, part of the reason you have diverse teams as spoken about before, is because then everyone's gonna ask different questions and you [00:08:15] need a lot of different questions.

You need people to poke a lot of different holes. I mean, ultimately that's, that's when innovative things happen. But yeah, I love to feel challenged. I love to learn. Mm-hmm. And so there's a period of your life where that's happening in the classroom. There's a period in my life when I thought that was gonna happen in business school.[00:08:30]

Instead I took a chief of staff job. I now say that was my business school. I followed a global leader around the world of 40 countries and, and met with colleagues and clients and was learning every day. And so I think as. As long as I can feel like I'm absorbing new [00:08:45] information, and that's through networks, through people, through the work that you're actually doing, through making mistakes and learning from those, then that fuels me.

And I also think that's also what I then bring back to my family too. And my home life is, it's all, it's all connected and the things I'm, I'm [00:09:00] learning at work and the things I'm learning at home. Yeah, they all tie together.

Aransas SAvas: I love that answer. And I think about the scale of the problem you're trying to solve right now, which.

I can't think of a model where anyone [00:09:15] has set such an audacious goal for something that is so systemically deeply challenging, and now I think the current climate makes it exponentially more difficult. So when you were faced with [00:09:30] the biggest hairiest problems like the one you are currently facing, where do you begin?

Kirsten?

Kiersten Barnet: So the fundamental objective of our organization is twofold. And so one is that a hundred thousand hiring target? Yeah, at [00:09:45] our member companies. But the other, and really this is the overarching one, is systemic change. So the first one is meant to be a driver and an indicator that we are moving in the right direction.

Systemic change is really, really hard and takes a long, long time. What I think [00:10:00] is so special about this organization and the CEOs that founded it and funded it. Is that they set that a hundred thousand hiring target. Those are hiring low income New Yorkers into jobs at their companies. This is not their funding an organization that's hiring for someone else, and [00:10:15] so that was meant to hold them accountable, but it was also meant to hold me and my team accountable because if the things we're doing are working for.

JP Morgan Citibank or working for Google and IBM, then they should be good enough to work for small and midsize financial service [00:10:30] companies, small and midsize tech firms. So it was never about them just hiring people into their own companies. That is sort of a means to an end, to, to then help develop these proof points that can be scaled, but ultimately help the city more broadly.

And so I think [00:10:45] in general, when tackling a really daunting. Task or objective, breaking it down into digestible pieces is, in my experience, the only way to, to move forward. And so this is just a really big [00:11:00] example of that. And this is where the, the power of the collective comes in. All of them doing that together is even better, but anyone can apply that, I think, to challenges in their personal or professional life.

Mm-hmm. One thing I, I learned from a leadership [00:11:15] course that Bloomberg had sent me to once. I was, that I've, I've continued to do was a suggestion of at the beginning of every year, writing yourself a letter as though it was the end of that year, 12 months later, and you're writing about what happened that year as [00:11:30] though it went exactly how you wanted it.

And I remember when they asked us to do this, I thought, Ugh, this is like touchy feely and a waste of time, and I have so much work to do. Why? Why am I sitting in this class? And then I remember I was pregnant at the time, and so my letter went [00:11:45] something like I took care of myself during pregnancy. I prepared my team, so I had a really smooth transition to parental leave, and then on parental leave I did X, Y, Z, so that I had a really smooth transition back.

And I'm just using those because they're easy [00:12:00] examples. But it was, okay, well, so what has to happen in order for that to happen? And so it's, well then let's back into it. It means I need to start preparing my team X, Y, Z here. It means I need to start gonna, I don't know, prenatal yoga once a week. And it sort of forces you to, to [00:12:15] map out one your priorities at the highest level, which I think is just so important.

Like it's rare. Someone actually just says to you, what are your priorities? Not your boss's priorities, not, but like what are your priorities and holistically across both your personal and professional life? Not taking one in a vacuum. And then [00:12:30] two, how do you get there? And then you map it out. And then three, so now you can hold yourself accountable along the year to those steps.

Am I behind? Have I done that? And I just think that's great. And there's so many times for me that I find my, [00:12:45] the things that are causing stress. Or actually not the big things. It's more the, the lack of structure. For, for example, oh my gosh, my husband and I are not seeing each other. We're shifts in the night we traveling.

Well then put date night on the calendar like every week. And granted it'll get moved [00:13:00] one out of two weeks, but at least it's there. It's so much harder to do this when you're then feeling like they haven't seen each other. Let's do that. And the same with work. You wanna launch a big marketing campaign, that was one of mine for 2024.

Well then I gotta hire a marketing director. Let's step one.[00:13:15]

We find ourselves just sitting around thinking about things we wanna do and sort of feeling like paralyzed in what the first step is because it's such a big thing when you break it down. I find that is much easier to feel achievable and also to hold yourself accountable [00:13:30] to the things you need to do and the timeline you need to do it on.

Aransas SAvas: I love it and I was really curious how you prioritize and that answer I think, provides so much universally relevant insight for us, and it is this practice of. Zooming out, getting a big [00:13:45] picture and then zooming in way down to the details. And from a behavior change standpoint, what we're often talking about is, yes, getting really clear on what your intentions and aims are and then what makes it hard.

[00:14:00] Yeah. And, and for you, what makes it

Kiersten Barnet: easy? I think what's interesting is. In some cases, the older I've gotten, the more, and probably just 'cause I've taken on the role of wife, mother, but community member. But I, I feel like the more it's easy to get confused [00:14:15] on, is this what I want or is this what I'm supposed to want?

And so to your point about prioritization, never in the last eight years that I've done this letter, like, has cooking dinner every night come up now, that was a, that's a thing that I often feel like would, would used to feel [00:14:30] bad about. Like I'm not home cooking dinner every night. I'm not home cooking dinner every night.

But am I feeling bad about that because I, that's important to me or am I feeling bad about it? 'cause a lot of other moms are home in time to cook dinner at night. Mm-hmm. And so I could have picked that over date night and like said, gonna be home to cook [00:14:45] dinner every night. And that would also be an achievable goal.

And we would map it out and we'd put it on the calendar, but I didn't. And so it forces you to be really honest with yourself about what you want, what makes you happy. And again, you can't do that when you're. [00:15:00] Have both, you know, a work and a personal life without taking the two together. Yeah.

Aransas SAvas: I call that the art of strategic neglect.

I like that. Yes. Here is what I will strategically not be feeling guilty for. [00:15:15] Yeah. So now occasionally

Kiersten Barnet: my kids are like, oh my God, mom's cooking. And like, yeah, look at that. And it's fine. They're gonna grow up knowing mom does not cook very often. That's okay. They see a lot of other good things.

Aransas SAvas: Absolutely. And. Maybe they're learning to cook a little sooner. Exactly. Or [00:15:30] learning ways to manage meal making outside of cooking. Right. It teaches resourcefulness. We're never gonna get all the things done. No. So we might as well be honest and then move on. Because I do think one of the most [00:15:45] distracting things that gets in our way is all of the shoulds and the oughts.

Yes. When oftentimes they're not even aligned

Kiersten Barnet: with what we really care about. Right. And I think sometimes we also. Diagnose stress. It's a human [00:16:00] nature to just blame it on work. Like, oh, I feel stressed out. It's because of work. It's because of work. It's because of work. And I think that kind of isn't really doing justice to work because sometimes it's because of work, but sometimes it's because you're, yeah, your kids have a hectic schedule or you're [00:16:15] haven't gotten to the gym or like other, I mean, but that it's not always work.

And so I think being really clear on. What it is that's causing you stress, and then how can you mitigate that so that all aspects of your life are more fluid is important,

Aransas SAvas: and then it's realistic [00:16:30] about what fits your life instead of Yeah, just this like imaginary life ex. Totally. Exactly. You talk about eating the frog first as a part of how you structure your life, your days.[00:16:45]

Share a little bit more about this, because I feel like the more I talk to trailblazers. People who are the first of their kind in the room that they're in. This has come up over and over again. And so I think there's a [00:17:00] lesson for all of us who are doing hard things.

Kiersten Barnet: Yeah, I'll say I used to be like in college younger, such a procrastinator, I would be the person pulling all-nighters for student paper the night before.

And I think that's [00:17:15] contributed to multiple things, but just never really learned. Time management or executive functioning skills, skills probably that I needed to. And then when I got to the workplace, I realized, that's not gonna work. I, I can't, that, that, that's not gonna work. And so I started looking [00:17:30] into some of like best practice of how can I make myself more efficient?

And there's this Eat the Frog saying, which comes from Mark Twain saying, if you eat a, it's something like if you eat a frog at the beginning of every day, it'll be the worst thing that happened to you that day, or nothing worse will happen. But [00:17:45] it essentially means like, do the thing. That you dread doing or that is challenging or that isn't fun, just get it.

But that it has to get done, just get outta the way in the morning. And for me, that works for two reasons. One, I'm most productive in the morning, so if I don't do it, then [00:18:00] it's probably definitely not gonna get done or it's not gonna get done well, particularly if it's something that requires any sort of strategic thinking.

And two, otherwise it just looms over your over you all day. And so I think it's a. I find it's a great way to start the day. It also then feels like you've built [00:18:15] some momentum that you just keep your, you can go, oh wow, I checked that off my list. And that's one that I really feel good about checking. And by the way, that also can be personal or professional.

It could be calling your mom back if that's something that you've been dreading to, if that's the most complex thing of the day. [00:18:30] Yeah. I think for some people that might be not, not me. But it could be, yeah, having a difficult conversation with a, an employee. It could be, you know, writing a briefing that is just gonna take a lot of time and energy, but it always [00:18:45] feels really good to get it done, and I find it's a great way to start today.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah. Hard problems never solve themselves.

Kiersten Barnet: No, I, Jamie Diamond, the CEO of JP Morgan, who is the chair of our board, has a saying that, that problems don't age [00:19:00] well. Says a lot. It's just, yeah, it's a, you know, the same, the same concept. Like if you have to deliver bad news, do it right away. If you have to take accountability, do it now.

Like nothing gets better. Those tasks don't go away. Things only become more complex. Yeah, [00:19:15] do it now.

Aransas SAvas: I think about them as acute and chronic pain. Yeah,

Kiersten Barnet: that's a great way to think about it.

Aransas SAvas: I would rather manage the acute pain knowing that it might be a little more uncomfortable in the immediate term than suffer with it.

For weeks, months, [00:19:30] years, decades,

Kiersten Barnet: absolutely.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah. The cumulative

Kiersten Barnet: effect is way lower. The cumulative effect. Yeah. And I, I think also the weird thing about procrastination is the longer you do it, the longer it, it's like it's a snowball becomes harder and harder to [00:19:45] break that cycle, at least for me.

Aransas SAvas: So if we think of this as a challenge of eating the frog first, or managing the trickiest at first, what has been the hardest part of.

Helping these organizations [00:20:00] accomplish this giant KPI I led goal.

Kiersten Barnet: So the hardest part is there's no roadmap like this hasn't. Mm-hmm. To your point earlier, systemic change, at least at the workforce development education systems level in our city, [00:20:15] but in this is not just our city. It really hasn't happened in a very long time, so that's hard.

Mm-hmm. Already is that no one's handing you, here's your strategic plan, here's your manual, here's what, what you have to deliver on. So the constant sort of [00:20:30] experimentation, execution, iteration, data collection, all, all of that, that, that just is, we're always in that learning and iterating mode. And I imagine we will be for a very long time.

It's not like we just had to land on one product and get it right [00:20:45] and we're done. So that, that's I think, the hardest part about what this organization does. The easiest, and now I'm say the easiest part about what this organization does is that we have the support of some of the most influential CEOs [00:21:00] leading innovative organizations that are the, I cannot think of a better group to be driving, you know, skilling, to be driving, ensuring our future workforce in New York City is skilled and competitive.

They're leading real time on [00:21:15] developments in ai. They're leading real time and developments in healthcare. Who better to know and, and what a great group of employers to signal to the community what, what's needed. I say that's the easiest thing in that, that's a blessing. Like that is such a gift that, that I have in leading this [00:21:30] organization.

But I think also one of my biggest challenges is how do you leverage them? And that's a big part of my job. Mm-hmm. The thing with CEOs is that are committed to a cause. Like they're there, they're all in and anything, they're leading from the top. If they wanna do it, they can do it. But you, you [00:21:45] have to know the right ask.

Mm-hmm. I think that in itself can be really challenging. We've all been in this position before. You're someone looking for job advice or so you're like, how can I help? You need someone to tell you. Right? And so figuring out what the right asks are and for the right organizations [00:22:00] so that it will, to be able to connect to the work that needs to get done is how I spend a lot of my time.

But I feel like every day I am aware that this is mine to lose if this group of business leaders. I cannot get it done. If our [00:22:15] organization with the support of them cannot get it done under my leadership, then I'm the wrong leader then. Like that, that that's a problem. We can't blame it on anything. Back to like blaming stress on work, you can't blame it on anything else because you've got all the support you need there to tackle this [00:22:30] really, or challenge.

Aransas SAvas: Okay. I need to know more about both of these on that one first. Like how do you hold that level of. And [00:22:45] accountability without feeling completely overwhelmed or like paralyzed just by the, the level of responsibility.

Kiersten Barnet: I mean, I think it's a little bit like what we talked about earlier. You just have to take [00:23:00] a deep breath and break it down into steps and put one foot in front of the other.

I mean, you, you have to do something. You need to move forward. So I, I think that. But I also am a really big believer in knowing your customer. Uh, this is one of when I, I spent 15 [00:23:15] years at Bloomberg and really grew up professionally there. And one of the, their five core values is knowing your customer.

And that means different things in different roles and in different organizations. But what it means to me here is I need to know both my companies and I need to know my end user, [00:23:30] which in is most cases students, either New York City public high school students, CUNY students, or faculty advisors, anyone in that ecosystem.

I think that's a, in my experience, the best way to be able to figure out what the right ask is or the right [00:23:45] foot to put in front of the other. Sometimes I found like the more senior you get in your career, sometimes the further away you get from the end user, if you will. Mm-hmm. And it becomes around like speculation and decks and [00:24:00] questions and, and you don't have the right people in the room to ans it's like a bunch of people that are too far apart.

To answer the question, since you're kind of just guessing at the problem and you're guessing at the answer, and sometimes the answer is just go ask the right person, and that might be a [00:24:15] 20-year-old CUNY student. Go ask them, would this work for you? Would this be helpful? Go ask our companies. Is this something you could help with?

Is this expertise that you have? Is this something you thought of? And back to asking questions like, I think there aren't any dumb questions, but, but [00:24:30] it's not helpful to ask questions. You know, to the wrong audience. Mm-hmm. So we, we spend a lot of time talking to students, learning from them, and I spend a lot of time my, you know, diverse team in all aspects of the world, world.

Talking to them, what are you hearing, what are you, what was your experience? And [00:24:45] then talking to our companies at all levels as well. It's not, the CEO is a very different perspective than a entry level recruiter who, you know, can offer a, a incredibly valuable per perspective on where in the pipeline students are falling through, where are they performing?

And the [00:25:00] person in the marketing team can offer them perspective on sort of how does the company view themselves in this effort and what's gonna be important to them, you know, to get outta or to get it.

Aransas SAvas: What I really take from that is that you are collecting data in [00:25:15] order to make these decisions and that that is taking the responsibility off of, I think, where we get paralyzed.

Our thinking is, oh my gosh, it's all on me. I've gotta get this right. And it becomes about me and not the [00:25:30] problem. And you're out gathering the data to understand the problem. And so then it's about, well, where can I add value to solving this problem? And largely it is consolidating all of the insights.

And it's interestingly, [00:25:45] almost word for word. What Melissa Ramos said on this show. And so for those listening, she's the commissioner of the N Yc Doe, so she's also talking to the same students that

Kiersten Barnet: Kirsten is. Yes. No, no, no. I know Melissa. Yes. Uh, no. That's, [00:26:00] that's, I love that. No, it, it, you. Synthesize that much better than I did.

It is data collection analysis, whatnot. But earlier on in my career, I felt this pressure to try and fit the mold of what I thought a leader looked like. And I do think you think, oh, it's someone who has all the answers. Mm-hmm. And is all [00:26:15] knowing and just makes decisions and moves quickly. And then you realize that's not at all what it is.

And if it wasn't one time, I don't know, it was before my time, but I could tell you it's not ever gonna be again because of the pace of change that just. Is happening right now and will only [00:26:30] speed up and not slow down. It's impossible for a leader to know everything. Mm-hmm. And so I think it's all about surrounding yourself with people that fill in the gaps of being self-aware, surrounding yourself with people that fill in the gaps of where, you know your strengths and weaknesses are.

And then [00:26:45] leveraging that data collection process both from your team and you know, from your customer if you'll, but, but not getting stuck in the process. There is such a thing as like analysis paralysis too. And at some point you have to make a call. And that's really the job, a leader. It's like to know when the time is to [00:27:00] make that call.

Okay, we've got enough to make an informed decision and then, you know, pick a path.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah. It's asking the right questions. And so I wanna go back to that because there is so much universal relevance for all of us who are [00:27:15] doing big, brave things that we do have to ask for help. Nobody's ever done a big, brave thing alone, and yet it's not just like willy-nilly.

What do you think? No. No. Or how can I help? Right. Like, no, you need the [00:27:30] right,

Kiersten Barnet: it has to be the targeted Yes. Questions. Yes.

Aransas SAvas: So tell us how you think about that when you're asking guys whose time is worth like more thousands of dollars an hour than I can even, like fathom. I don't [00:27:45] even wanna do the math. I don't even wanna do the math yet.

Totally right. Like, exactly. Uh, yeah. Yeah. To quantify an hour of Jamie Diamond's time. Yeah. It's, let's not do, that's way outside

Kiersten Barnet: of mine. I'm sure someone's said that somewhere, I'm sure. [00:28:00] Well, I think, again, it depends on your audience to the questions you're asking. So I think that's where the wrong question to ask for CEOs is just how can you help?

That's the wrong, wrong question. Yeah. Right. So vague. You have to ask some other peoples some questions to even figure out how you think they can help. [00:28:15] And then I, you know, I think this is where we see you could add a lot of value. Here's an example, we. CUNY came to us a couple summers ago and said, is there something we can do for tech students that didn't get an internship that will still [00:28:30] help boost their resume come fall when they're applying for jobs?

And so back to knowing your customer, I thought Google, they put a hundred million dollars into Google Career certificates. A lot of those are in tech. Let's go talk to Google. And so you go to Google, [00:28:45] say, Hey, is this something you all could help us with? Yes. I have a student engagement team. The right question for them is how would we engage students?

How many students do you think? 'cause Google says, how many licenses do you think you need? Okay, how many students do we think we can get? Anyway, bottom line, you end of place. [00:29:00] We, we signed 5,000 students up for Google Career certificates over, I dunno, a couple of weeks. We then went to our employers and said, Hey, if they finished them in two months, could we give them an incentive that they'll get.

[00:29:15] Certifications. Our employers say, yes, that was the right question of the HR professionals. The employers. Wrong question for the CEOs. And so I, I think that's a good example of where you can leverage a collaborative in multiple different ways, work [00:29:30] across our different stakeholders to know what expertise to leverage and what the right questions are.

And then you end up with a solution that had some really great outcomes.

Aransas SAvas: I love that example. And I think what I'm taking from it is. Asking the right questions in any area is doing your homework to [00:29:45] understand the expertise and resources of the person you're asking and understanding what need you're meeting for them as well.

Kiersten Barnet: Hundred percent. I mean, look, I grew up at a commercial private sector company, so [00:30:00] coming into the nonprofit world, it was surprising to me how many individuals and nonprofits have the mentality of business has to do this. This doesn't have to do anything. They have to make a profit. They have to pay their employees, they have shareholders they have to report to.

Other than that, that's pretty [00:30:15] much all I have to do. And so I think that. Of course there has to be a value proposition. There has to be a reason, and now that reason can just be it's the right thing to do and you have business leaders that are really committed to doing it. But when I look at our, our mission, if you're trying to change a whole city, [00:30:30] it has to be bigger than just relying on business leaders who are committed to doing the right thing.

It has to work, and so it has to work for everyone. Job seekers have to get something out. It companies have to get something out of it. In this case talent. So that's a great one. But [00:30:45] also when I took this job, we came in at a time when many of our CEOs were calling for people to be back in the office full or part-time, but moving more and more.

Okay, so what has to happen for employees to come back into the office? Well, they need to feel safe taking the [00:31:00] subway. They need to have a place to buy lunch and coffee when they get off the subway to get to the office. So all of those things. Now is our mission to stand up bodegas or police subways? No, but it's all connected and so I think that's where.

And our mission isn't to drive people to go to work [00:31:15] in office every day, but all of this still comes back to economic mobility and jobs. And so investing in solutions like the ones that we do, it's so much bigger than just the people in the jobs, the buts and the seats. It's the whole ecosystem. And [00:31:30] so again, you have to think about how does the solution benefit that full ecosystem?

Or you're gonna run into an issue of either unsustainability or un scalability, if that's a word.

Aransas SAvas: You're constantly asking questions. You are a learner. [00:31:45] You have amassed a wealth of what I call courage capital by doing hard things and proving to yourself that you are capable of solving big, hairy problems and doing [00:32:00] that in collaboration with your teams.

Does anything scare you as a leader? Still.

Kiersten Barnet: I think most people or certainly me, we're all scared of failure. It doesn't mean it's not gonna happen and it happens smaller big ways. Being scared of it doesn't stop it from [00:32:15] happening. Oh, it doesn't stop from happening. Look at that. Also a waste of time. Being scared of the failure.

But yeah, look, I think back to my point around am I, are we leveraging the council that we have to the extent that we can is [00:32:30] probably always the, that's the same that me asking that question every day is probably what scares me the most. Are we having as big of an impact as we could? Are we leaving impact on the table so it's less around like, yes, we're driving numbers and we're hiring people and I don't [00:32:45] anticipate that we'll, we'll stop, but we're, we're doing great work, but could we be doing more?

I think that's kind of a always a question and. I think in any job, it's not just a nonprofit job. You're always kind of wondering, could you be doing more? I always wonder, could I be doing more? As a mother? It's like, I mean, it's [00:33:00] just a, and so for me it's less about what am I not doing? And more about am I leaving anything on the table?

Am I not maximizing the, the resources and that I have? Yeah, have that desired impact.

Aransas SAvas: And it sounds like that intention setting, visioning [00:33:15] exercise that you do each year really helps clarify what that is. How do you take care of yourself? This rather high pressure, high stakes role.

Kiersten Barnet: I think, look, I live by the calendar.

I don't want this to be a [00:33:30] huge theme of this podcast, but I find the calendar is just the root of so much of what makes my life work. Mm-hmm. And so I, I think being thoughtful about finding time, whether it's to exercise time with my husband, [00:33:45] time with my kids, for me, like scheduling in the. Work life balance.

If you'll, it's a, it's a terrible term, but by, and it sounds weird to say schedule it, but be my scheduling in. I think that's what keeps, that's what manages me. [00:34:00] Um, and I think when I find myself feeling untethered is when either I haven't done as good a job of that, or again, obviously there are times in life where work will ramp up.

You don't get to the gym, you don't see your kids as much, but making sure that you sort of make up that time on the flip side, [00:34:15] then that there are gonna be times, work gets more. I, there's many times that my family gets more of me, times that me gets more of me taking care of yourself and just recognizing that, not beating yourself up over it and keeping an eye on that

Aransas SAvas: balance.

[00:34:30] Yeah. Well said. And I think not looking at it as an either or, but thinking about it as each domain getting its due when it needs it most.

Kiersten Barnet: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, you know, trying to [00:34:45] compartmentalize. Work and personal life, I find impossible. Like it's all so connected and the older I get and the more I grow professionally, it just only only amplifies that.

And so again, for me, it's all figuring out [00:35:00] stuff for you. But for me, I found that, you know, doing a little bit of work on my maternity leaves, no one asked me to. In case Bloomberg's listen, they absolutely did not ask me to do work. But for me, staying kind of connected, I carved out a couple hours a week or whatever.[00:35:15]

It was a small amount of time to take away from my newborn child in the scheme of things, but it was huge for me coming back to work. And again, I just knew that about myself. I felt like if I came back and felt disoriented or the reorgs and I didn't know, you know, just staying in the and, and [00:35:30] that enabled me to then spend more time with my child when I got back to work.

It's similar, the same principle on vacation. Like if all of us have had that experience, you go on vacation and then you come back and the first days are.

I do [00:35:45] my best to also try and stay again, small amount of times to invest on vacation so that when I come back I can feel like I didn't, don't lose all the relaxation. I just gained by feeling overwhelmed. Again, that looks different on different people, but I think being [00:36:00] self-aware and then thinking through how you can mitigate those things happening is very helpful.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah. I think it also goes back to what you're saying about taking a more integrated approach. I call it. The kimono, and it really is, it's just like wrapping all [00:36:15] of our lived experience, our expertise, our interest, and our many hats that we wear, especially as women. And allowing ourselves to sort of create a new, unique version of what [00:36:30] leadership looks like as opposed to this archetypal version that we had in our minds, or that we tried to narrow ourselves and squeeze into maybe when we were younger.

Kiersten Barnet: And it's also, it's never been easier. We have all the tools to do [00:36:45] it now. All, all, you know, most all employees are people working do, and I think post COVID, one of the positive things is that now. Our lives all did get more integrated, whether we liked it or not. And you were working at home and you were, you know, working at [00:37:00] off times and whatever.

But I think that also helps you figure out, right, on a certain day balance could mean like jumping back on work at night. And this is for so many people because I wanted to be at my daughter's music class that day. I, whatever. It's a, I think that that's actually a benefit of today is that those things are [00:37:15] all possible, whereas a generation before that wasn't an option, which I imagine was much harder.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Every woman on the show nominates a woman she admires who's doing big, brave things in the world to be a [00:37:30] guest on the show. So who is the woman who inspires you?

Kiersten Barnet: Well, so if

Aransas SAvas: you have

Kiersten Barnet: not had

Aransas SAvas: her yet,

Kiersten Barnet: you should have my friend Dusty Jenkins. She is the Chief Public Affairs Officer for Spotify.

Huge job and Dusty's amazing. Our children were in preschool [00:37:45] together, so we met several years ago. And one of the things I love about Dusty is she has always had enormous responsibilities and roles at very young ages. Chief Communications Officer for Target. [00:38:00] Before that, she's worked in some presidential administrations and is also incredibly approachable, incredibly present.

She's all the things. Uh, she's all the things. Dusty is someone that I really admire. She's someone I go to for work [00:38:15] advice. She's incredibly authentic. When I think of examples, when you asked me that question, all of the women's faces that popped into my mind are women that are very authentic. Again, across all aspects of their life.

You, what you see is what you get and you [00:38:30] get the same version. And again, going back to earlier my career, you feel like you have to fit a mold of what a leader looks like, feel like you need to dress a certain way or sound a certain way or, and I think. Once [00:38:45] I learned to let go of that and feel confident that the things that make me distinct are also the things that distinguish me, eventually that's when I feel like things started ramping up.

Honestly. You started, yeah. So that's, but, [00:39:00] but it's hard to get to that place. It's hard to sort of give yourself that permission. There's a woman named Hena Morrisey. She lives in London. She was, uh, when I met her, CEO of Newton Asset Management, which is arm of the Bank of Mellon. Fund of $85 [00:39:15] billion. She was in her forties, Jo.

She has nine children. Oh, my nine No twins. It's nine pregnancies. I found it so hard to even have two pregnancies and were, I remember thinking before the first time I was gonna meet Helena, she was a Bloomberg client and [00:39:30] also week ultimately she had, she had started, um, the first 30% club, the hole in a ship, and then gradually chapters in other cities start, started up and, and I ended up helping found the, the US chapter.

But so before, the first time I met her, I remember thinking. Well, there's no way I'm gonna like her. Like [00:39:45] how, what woman is a CEO at 45 on all these most powerful women lists and has nine children. Like, that's just impossible. She must be like, because you don't get everything. Well, no, I only got everything and, and gotta be something wrong.

And she comes like, you know, briskly [00:40:00] walks into the room and she's also tall and thin and beautiful and always impeccably dressed and she's feminine and she's her. She's wearing a big skirt and like a bro and maybe some [00:40:15] ruffles, and she's living in this very male dominated industry of financial services and like this is not what I was expecting.

I was expecting a black suit. And so I think that Helena really is, when I think about when I first started to kind of reconsider if [00:40:30] my preconceived notions of what a leader's supposed to look like were actually accurate, and I realized like this is also why she's memorable. She is. She's, you can be a CEO and also care about fashion.

You can, you know, talk about your nine children all the time [00:40:45] without that feeling like you can't be a C and, and I think we've made huge strides in the sense that women today are much more apt to talk about the fact that they are not super human. They have challenges. Whereas even when I was in my twenties, [00:41:00] it was more often than not that you'd see a panel of women talking about things.

They were not talking about their children, they were not. Mm-hmm. Talking about challenges. It was very, and, and I think also women didn't have necessarily as much freedom to do so, just give, [00:41:15] given where we were. But so I remember in my mind thinking these women look like they're superhuman. They must not sleep, they don't make mistakes.

They're perfect. And I am not. I know I am flawed. And so how will I ever get to be in that position? And that's, that's always gonna be [00:41:30] an entirely unachievable goal if people see leaders and think you have to. You can't have flaws if you wanna get to that position. And that's a terrible message to be sending to young people.

And I think now people are much more comfortable. I'm happy saying like, no, there are [00:41:45] times that are really hard. There are times that are challenging. I cry sometimes. I mean like I'm a human being and I thought, you know, pregnancy was really hard. It was a challenge every day. And so I think that that is really a positive sign and [00:42:00] healthy as a society that we're seeing that more because.

You want young people to know that it's okay to be flawed and people aren't superhuman. And the, I think the earlier you can have that realization and then get to the stuff we were [00:42:15] talking about earlier, like, okay, identify those flaws and then figure out how to mitigate them or like build supports around you then the better, right?

I mean, and, and also otherwise we're gonna lose out on good talent that's gonna take themselves out of the game before they even give away. Yeah.

Aransas SAvas: [00:42:30] Yeah. It's the silence that blocks the systemic change. In the same way that if you want people to go back to the office, there needs to be a place to get coffee.

Yes. Right. It's contextual enablers for what's happening in reality [00:42:45] in the experience, not just the outcome.

Kiersten Barnet: Yeah, and I think that for so long it was like this secret, maybe, I'm trying to think of the right way to word this. I knew someone at Bloomberg who. Children and she and another [00:43:00] colleague both had children, they had this sort of like secret code between them where they put in their calendar some code word, but it basically meant, I've got a kids' thing, I got a school, uh, parent teacher conference, I've got a something, and, and at Loomberg you can, and they felt like they had to do that, I'm sure.

And they felt, and they felt like they had to do that. [00:43:15] And I remember someone telling me that, that, and saying, did you know so and so and so they do this? What a great idea. Like that's such a great idea. And I said, I dunno. And I love the idea because to be honest, like I'm glad it, it's a way. But it kind of feels like a, like a, a bandaid.

[00:43:30] And also it doesn't do anything to help set the role modeling or the example for other people. And so I was very mindful and intentional, I guess, around when I did come back to work after my first child. And granted I was in a senior enough position that I [00:43:45] felt confident taking the time that I needed.

I ask anyone to go anywhere. But, so I thought, given that I'm in this position, that's a gift. I also wanna make sure I'm, I'm. Role modeling. And so I'd say, I just got back from Asia for two weeks. Guess what? I'm going to Elan's music class, you [00:44:00] know, tomorrow morning I'll be in late. I've got a work dinner tonight, so I'm gonna go home early and see the kids and then go out there.

And I think that that just sort of shows the evolution of like, women couldn't make it work. Women figured out ways to make it work, work. And now [00:44:15] this can be the norm and you can also be really proud of making it work.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah, yeah. And it really took women at the top being willing to take that risk.

Because the women at the, at the bottom of an organization, the lowest paid the hourly [00:44:30] workers. No, of course. They're not gonna be the first ones who can say that.

Kiersten Barnet: No. Or they have to ask permission or they, yeah, exactly. And so there's no precedent. No. And they shouldn't have to be, you shouldn't have to be blazing from the bottom in those scenarios when, when there are people that can [00:44:45] do it without putting their jobs at risk.

Aransas SAvas: Mm-hmm. Who have that authority. It is so. Wonderful to talk to you, and I'm so excited by the work that you're doing, Kirsten, and the way that you're doing it. [00:45:00] So as Uplifters, we love to uplift other uplifters, so how can we, as non CEOs of the biggest organizations in the world, support the work that you're doing

Kiersten Barnet: wherever you're listening from?

[00:45:15] It is so important to be supporting your local talent ultimately. Everything we're doing is about connecting local talent to jobs. And I cannot drive home enough. That is just, that is good for everyone. Everybody benefits your economy benefits, your businesses [00:45:30] benefit your job seekers benefits, your safety benefits, community benefits.

And so I think the more people can be intentional about hiring from their backyard, the better. And that's a good thing because if you're intentional about it. [00:45:45] You'll either hire people or you realize that there's a gap. And if there's a gap, then think about how you can fill that gap with skills. And I think that the more, the beauty of this effort is that we work with the public sector, but we are [00:46:00] funded and led by the private sector and the private sector.

Traditionally it hasn't been its job to skill people. You get them once they're, that's education's job in our. That's gonna long. And so thinking through [00:46:15] how can businesses, and you could be a small business, a big business, lean in to close those gaps on skilling fear, readiness awareness, fear exploration, all those things is really important [00:46:30] because a lot of change right now in our country requires private sector leadership and sort of proof points to then get.

Public sector leadership and funding, and that's ultimately what makes it sustainable. So it's this whole life cycle of things. I'm really happy to [00:46:45] see the private sector recognize it has this opportunity and responsibility to step up to a job that technically is not its job, like that's not in our scope, but recognizes why this is good for everyone.

And so that would be my call to action for people just to [00:47:00] be, to be thinking about local talent, hiring local talent, and skilling local talent.

Aransas SAvas: It sounds like a good moment too to call out one of our former guests who, this one Holly Diamond, she's brilliant. She's got a Robinhood funded startup in New York [00:47:15] City.

It's map based hiring software, and so it's basically Google Maps for hourly workers. That's so cool. And isn't it brilliant, so it's like the mom and pop sign that says hiring. Where do those go? They just go in a [00:47:30] window that, a sign that maybe somebody will pass by. And so this is a map based software that says, look on this map, and you'll see all the jobs in your area that are hiring specifically newer Americans [00:47:45] and lower income folks who are looking for Mark.

Kiersten Barnet: What a great I, I am definitely gonna look. That's very, that is brilliant.

Aransas SAvas: Smart.

Kiersten Barnet: Yeah. And I, I'll also say, if you have listeners, if you are one of those hourly workers that is applying for jobs elsewhere, like [00:48:00] other jobs or higher skilled jobs. One of the things we find is people often leave those jobs off their resume, or they don't know how to articulate the transferability of those skills.

And so we work predominantly with, with the public college students at the 25 [00:48:15] CUNY schools in New York City. And every CUNY student I've ever met works at least part-time. Many are working full-time while also gonna school. So that in itself, they have time management responsibility. Those are transferable skills.

And then you talk to the person that's working at Starbucks or Tel or [00:48:30] like you have customer service experience. You've been yelled at by customers. You've had a boss, you may have been a boss, you know, and all of those are things that employers value that stuff. More today than I've ever seen in the past.

Mm. And so it's only gonna keep happening because the more [00:48:45] and more that you know, AI is totally transforming Generat AI is totally transforming the workplace and what jobs look like and the skills that employers value. And those are the things that's not replacing. And those are the things that I think are [00:49:00] hard to bet with a student that's just straight out of college, unless that student can demonstrate them otherwise.

'cause it's not gonna show up on your transcript.

Aransas SAvas: No,

Kiersten Barnet: but saying I've had this job, or I had caregiving responsibilities, I was a lifeguard. Like all of those are [00:49:15] really important. And so just since you mentioned that workers have to put in that plug as well, those skills are making those students more and more competitive than their peers.

And I will say this past year are are member companies. Had roughly a [00:49:30] thousand CUNY interns and the end of the summer, the CUNY interns were 22% more likely to get full-time offers than their peers. So to me, this is just my own Yeah. Interpretation. It's because of those other skills they, they've [00:49:45] got other skills on top of Yeah.

The same skills everybody else has.

Aransas SAvas: Experience is power. It's Right. And I think, especially now, as you said, in a time when AI is really transforming how we work. We as humans are [00:50:00] most needed for. Yeah. And so lean into, and that is my biggest worry. I'm like, I have a lot of ex lived experience. And so I think one of the big questions we're all asking is like, what will lived experience look like for the next generation who don't have the [00:50:15] same, or even the similar career journey as the past generation?

Kiersten Barnet: Yeah. And so it's back to lean into the things that differentiate you. And that could be your job at Starbucks.

Aransas SAvas: Yeah. Yeah. I love that you bring up caregiving because I think that's such an important [00:50:30] and relevant one. So great to talk to you. I can't wait to see what you guys do. We'll be following along with so much excitement for you in this project.

For those of you listening, I'll put links to Kirsten's work in the show notes. Please follow [00:50:45] along with her and support this work and this mission. Thanks. Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes, please [00:51:00] share them with the Uplifters in your life and then.

Join us in conversation [email protected]. Head over to Spotify, apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. And like, follow [00:51:15] and rate our show. It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories. Mm,

Music: big love painted water [00:51:30] sunshine with Rosemary Anton dwelling the perplexing, though you find it flexing.

Toss a star in half for be around this love for relish in a new prime land, a [00:51:45] tree in springtime dance. With that, all hindsight, bring the sun to twilight. Lift you up. Whoa.

Lift you up.[00:52:00]

Lift you up. Whoa. Lift you up.

Lift you,[00:52:15]

lift, you

lift.[00:52:30]

Um, beautiful. I cried. It's that little thing you did with your voice, right? In the pre-course, right? Uhhuh. Uhhuh. I was like, mommy, quiet [00:52:45] mommy. Stop crying. You're disturbing the peace.