For most of us, the idea of making a major pivot in life or career can seem impossible - even reckless.

Our social conditioning or lack of self-belief often points us to the idea that we should prioritise being responsible, or stay where we are due to sunk costs. But is there another way to look at making a big change?

My guest today is challenging the status quo and offering her incredible insights on shaking things up, pursuing your true purpose and designing the life you really want.

Ellen Hooper is an accomplished executive coach, leadership development business owner and co-host of the podcast I’ll Ask My Sister. Starting out as a lawyer, transitioning into HR and eventually finding her way to coaching, Ellen knows firsthand what it is to feel the ‘push’ towards the safe and expected path early on in life. She takes us through her journey of experiencing the ‘pull’ of her real purpose, finding the courage to pursue her dreams and the mindset change that helped get her there.

We talk about charting the path to change by adopting an expansive mindset, and how asking for what we really need in our personal lives and careers is vital when making big decisions. With productivity being one of Ellen’s favourite topics, she shares her helpful insights on the significance of routine, understanding personal productivity peaks and the often-overlooked value of rest.

She also shares her philosophy on leadership, where revolving it around integrity, communication and empathy can transform not just professional environments but personal lives as well.

This is a beautiful and inspiring conversation on finding a new lease in life, leadership and personal fulfilment. Let’s take Ellen’s lead and allow ourselves to think bigger, knowing that this life is truly what you make it!

LINKS:

Connect with Ellen:

Website: https://www.ellenhooper.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellenjhooper 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ellen.hooper.consulting/

Connect with Me: 

Website: www.balanceathand.com 

Instagram:  @balance_at_hand

Jaqui: Hello, and welcome. We have an amazing guest with us today to discuss leadership in its many forms. And I'm so excited to welcome the wonderful Ellen Hooper. Ellen is a people and culture expert and an award winning coach and people leader. Ellen is also a certified coach with the International Coaching Federation, an accredited mediator.

She is now a non executive director. Co founder of the growth collective, executive coach, MC, and keynote speaker. Ellen builds a diversity and inclusion lens into everything she does and is fascinated by helping people curate a career they love in a life they have designed and is a self proclaimed culture nerd.

I am so excited to have her here with us today. So let's get straight into our discussion with the fabulous Ellen Hooper.

Jaqui: Ellen, thank you so much for joining us today.

Ellen: You're so welcome, I've been So looking forward to this.

Ellen: I started my career as a lawyer and then moved into HR. And most recently I've been running an executive coaching and leadership development business. I'm a mum of two. I have a four year old and a seven year old. and I'm also a podcast host most recently, just like you, Jaqui. So my sister And I started a podcast called I'll Ask My Sister, which is the advice podcast where the cosmic meets the corporate.

So I've been kind of exploring my cosmic side more and more, which has been unexpected.

Ellen: What is it about 2024?

Jaqui: It's a massive astrological year. It's a great year,

Ellen: Okay, perfect. Well, it's

Jaqui: a year of change.

Ellen: Mhmm.

how did you make that change? How did you have the courage to stop and go, I need to pivot from where I am?

Ellen: Yeah, it's interesting. I think in careers there's either a push or a pull. I kind of felt the push first, so I started my career in a, you know, global corporate law firm, and I kind of did the things that you were meant to do, so It's very traditionally academically, uh, smart and I got good marks. And then it's like, well, you should study medicine or law, or that would be a waste.

And I'm really afraid of blood. I'm so glad for everyone involved that I never studied medicine.

Jaqui: That's So funny because I was engineering or medicine and I can't stand blood either.

If I'd had any sort of career coaching or personality profiling, it would have been really clear, but that law was a really difficult fit for me. think that earlier in life is a really good time to make changes because it was quite low risk. but I did have to deal with the identity crisis.

I think that comes with making a shift. You know, even though I wasn't a lawyer for a very long time, I was only a lawyer for about five years, it was really, really part of my identity. and also this idea of sunk cost. And I didn't really have that belief, but lots of people around me, had this sense of, oh, but you've worked so hard and you know, you've achieved the degree and you've got the first job. And so, you know, why let all that stuff go?

We've got the sunk investment, just like you said, invested in the degrees and in a career. How do we pivot from here?

Ellen: Yeah. Um, a book that changed my life at that point in time was by Carol Dweck and it's called Mindset And so the reason why that's really useful is that, Carol Dweck did heaps of research firstly with kids and then with other people about.

That's not worth it. Or we think really, you know, too big. What if I had wanted to be an astronaut right now? You know, what would it take to do that? And I think at any stage in life, when something kind of feels scratchy. Because lots of that happens to lots of us. There's a push. I don't like what I'm doing now, but I don't have the pull.

Really great book on career and he says, well, we think that when we look for jobs, you know, we scroll through sync, SQL, LinkedIn, and we're looking for job titles, but actually whether I like a job or not depends on what kind of skills I get to use the types of people I get to work with, the kind of terms or conditions I have, like we would talk about that now as flexible work or work life balance.

Geography is really massive. You know, there's so much research. The commute makes a huge difference into whether we enjoy work or not. the responsibility and pay that I have and then the type of workplace, you know, am I really a public sector kind of person or do I really want to kind of be in a really commercial environment?

Or what if I found a job that was really similar to what I'm doing now, but there's a tweak in it or it's closer to home? So I think we're always just looking for the next best thing, the one step at a time with career pivots. I mean, the, journey from lawyer to executive coach, that was a 10 year journey.

So it's kind of easy when we read out the bios to think like that, you know, the other people make it sound really easy, but if you've got somewhere you want to go, then yeah, the one step at a time. And I think if you're at that almost retirement age, it's actually a time in life that can be really freeing.

Jaqui: But I love the opportunities you just put together for people that are later in their careers and are a little panicked. Actually, it's not a time to panic.

Ellen: Yeah. And you have so many transferable skills. I mean, honestly, having worked in HR then for a decade, we're mostly just looking for people who can talk to other human beings in sensible, reasonable ways. So if you've nailed that, there's lots of things that you can bring to the table moving into different roles.

And That's why I think you're always looking for, what are the stepping stones between what I'm doing now, and where I want to be.

Jaqui: That's brilliant. So have you found your purpose

or are you on a journey still to finding your purpose?

So, you know, at the moment I have young children and a lot of the systems I think are silly are at the moment about working parents and how we kind of split equal parenting in our households and how we engage with dads at work and how we engage with, moms of newborns and things like that.

So I think I have found my purpose?

There's still, for me, always a tension between

Jaqui: It's such a beautiful, beautiful purpose. seriously, I was moved hearing that because I think everyone's purpose has that level of service attached to it. And you've really articulated yours, even though, as you've said, it's a continuing journey. Beautifully. the external validation part, that's tricky to navigate.

I think everyone's trying so hard now to balance, is this for me or for others?

Ellen: Yeah. And I think that's tricky. and sometimes. a life will show us. So I often think about, um, I live in Melbourne and so during the lockdowns in the pandemic, I think we really found out if you wear makeup for yourself or for other people.

Jaqui: Such a good point.

Ellen: But those kind of really, the more ingrained something is, the more kind of socially acceptable it is, the harder it is to pull what's important to me and what do I think should be important to me.

Ellen: so

the thing about asking for what you want is this theory I have, which is that we've been taught that love is sacrifice. And so the way that we can show our love most is to kind of give up the most or sacrifice the most. Okay. And the challenge with that is that when love is sacrifice, what it actually breeds is resentment.

And then we go through all these relationships not getting what we need from them, but having never told the other person what it is that we need. And kind of going back to systems that I think is silly, like I think that's really silly. I think that's really silly and I still do it all the time because I don't know that we've really been taught very well how to know in ourselves what we need and how to articulate it and how to articulate what we need in a way that's filled with grace and compromise.

And I think that the skills you have in marriage and leadership and parenting are all the same. But their research on marriage is they have this kind of call to action of allowing yourself to be influenced. And when I think about asking for what you need or being able to articulate what's useful for you, that comes back to, you know, the person you're in relationship with allowing themselves to be influenced and for you as well to allow yourself to be influenced.

Jaqui: Oh, that's beautiful. All right. I'm going to ask you some productivity stuff

now.

Ellen: my favorite.

Ellen: I have been really working on rewiring this and I have been trying to rewire that rest is productive.

It's really hard. And when I do find I take a break, so I just actually took my mum away to Byron Bay for Mother's Day. And so, we had kind of three and a half days together. And in that time I was talking to her about a whole range of things, including I want to change my office set up.

So I have a really lovely office set up from home. My family are here and, maybe when my youngest is a bit older, that will be more manageable. But right now in some of my most productive hours, which is I'm Really most productive early in the morning. And I think That's another tip, knowing when you're productive is really useful.

Cause I was on a bit of a break. I posted in some Facebook groups, local Facebook groups, anyway, found the most perfect office. It's available next week. Like that just all turned around in four days.

So

I just always get reminded that the rest is really worth it. And do find it really hard as a productivity technique and, you know, someone who's always really thought and been taught that hard work pays off.

and I ended up not doing any work that weekend and it's great when those little kind of stars align and it shows you that that was actually really productive.

Jaqui: Yep. Amazing. a big, big thing at balance at Hand is plan your rests

because they're so critical. What does preparedness mean to you and how do you make sure you are prepared?

Ellen: I'm a real paradox when it comes to preparedness. Because I'm very interested in times and timelines, and in the high five strength test, the timekeeper is one of my strengths. So, if I kind of haven't done a piece of work, three days or a week before it's due, I'll start feeling the anxiety around it.

So I like to really routine my weeks, and that won't be for everyone, but I kind of My current Week set up is no meetings after 2 p. m. and I keep Mondays free for Connection and Friday free for desk work mean, you can look at my diary now and see how, successful that is all the time. But the routine of that and the rhythm in that, and you asked about decision making before, Jaqui, but it stops me from having to constantly remake decisions.

So I'm kind of into a set of 15 minutes aside and see how far you can get, rather than being paralyzed about I can't find the two hour time block.

Jaqui: amazing. And I operate to a plan, but not a schedule,

which doesn't make sense to a lot of people because I'm so hyper organized.

but I'm actually not. It's um, exactly what you've said. Routine is key.

I am that scary person who can book something 12 weeks out because I already know what I'm doing.

So

I love that.

I think That's really important.

Jaqui: So we at times all lose our balance. And when you find this is happening to you, what is the first action you take to reset yourself?

Ellen: Oh, I'm a bit out of balance this week, so what a good question. I have a tendency, the first thing I actually do is because of that long term planning, I will really fix it in about weeks time. You know, so like it's all, it'll run smoothly for the six weeks. Um, I then also have a tendency that I'm really working on, which is to think, if I can just work really hard, I'll clear the decks.

And I have been learning that there's no such thing as the end of the to do list. It kind of reminds me about, you know, you've got a packet of Tim Tams in the house. You're like, well, if I just eat them all, then they'll be gone.

And as I said, my go to is just work really hard through it. And I've been trying to switch to, okay, how can I take the pressure off? And actually you were very accommodating because we rescheduled this podcast as one of the things that happened when I got a bit out of balance previously.

Jaqui: And not even an issue because exactly as you said, we're just flexible and we move around and.

Ellen: that's

Jaqui: And I think honestly, one of the positives from COVID is just this flexibility that's generated in our lives. People seem less concerned about the nine to five and the locations and even if you call into work now and just go, I'm sick, it's so different from five years ago.

where you had to soldier on. I was

Ellen: build that muffle. Yeah, definitely it's been really good to build that agility muscle.

So Ellen, as a leadership expert, what are the key tips for us to translate leadership into our lives, whether it's at home, within the community or at our workplace?

Ellen: I think leadership often comes down to integrity and communication. that can show up in a lot of areas of life. I also think really good leaders think from other people's perspective and ask them questions about what they need and what works for them. I think if you can get really good at that, you can build some really good quality, deep, trusting relationships that will serve you in all aspects of life.

Jaqui: That's beautiful. This has been such an inspirational discussion. For those of us that want to spend more time with you, what is the best way to stay in touch?

Jaqui: Yeah. Tell us a bit more about the

Ellen: yeah, it kind of came about because it, my sister and I are so different, but also so similar.

So I have a very similar kind of values, but arrive or think about the world in really different ways. oh, there's so much division in the world at the moment. Such a sense of you have to kind of choose one camp or the other. And I really like this, quote that floats around on the internet, which I'm going to remember.

We have a listener question that we answer, and we put that different lens on it. You know, from my HR perspective. background, working with lots of businesses, and from her human design background. And it's always so interesting how often we're saying the same things but we're using different words. And we always find it really fun because my friends are always fascinated by my sister Madeline's take and her friends are always like, oh, Ellen's so sensible.

So there really is kind of something in it for everyone if you're one way inclined or the other or, yeah, just want to hear what it feels like to add two seemingly really different perspectives together.

Jaqui: Well, I love it. I listen to it all the

time.

Ellen: Oh, thank you. Our super fan.

I totally understand your side. It's what was ingrained in

me,

but I think Madeline's side is where I'm really exploring.

And it's just a, it's a lovely blend.

Ellen: Yeah, she's teaching me so much. I knew we wanted Jaqui is actually one of our very first listeners before we were even launched, so thank you

for your

support and feedback.

Jaqui: Uh, Ellen, you are amazing and I feel so privileged you're able to spend time with us today and are providing us all the valuable information to keep balance at hand.

Thank you so me. Thanks. Jaqui.