Have you been saved? Kyle, Seth, and Drew delve into the third installment of "The Crow" series, "The Crow: Salvation," highlighting its surprisingly positive reception compared to its predecessor, "City of Angels." The hosts discuss how the film successfully redeemed itself even with its straight-to-DVD status, with interesting character arcs and some standout performances, particularly from then-unknown Walton Goggins and Tim Decay. They explore the film's unique approach to the crow's resurrection powers, noting the creative twist with the character's mask and the overall aesthetic choices that set it apart from the earlier entries. Despite some criticisms regarding the lack of depth in the villains and the film's pacing, the hosts appreciate the entertaining moments and the thematic elements of revenge and justice. Ultimately, they conclude that "The Crow: Salvation" offers a refreshing take within the franchise, even if it doesn't reach the heights of the original film.

A captivating dissection of 'The Crow: Salvation' unfolds as the hosts of the Movie Wars podcast — Kyle, Seph, and Drew — embark on an exploration of this sequel's narrative and thematic depths. The conversation kicks off with a focus on the film's central character, Alex Corvus, as portrayed by Eric Mabius. The hosts examine his journey from wrongful execution to seeking vengeance, discussing the moral implications of resurrection and revenge. They highlight the performances of young Kirsten Dunst and Walton Goggins, noting how their talent brings a level of gravitas to the film that elevates it despite its flaws. The hosts admire Goggins’ portrayal of a corrupt cop, offering a nuanced perspective on the character's motivations and the film's critique of systemic corruption.

As the dialogue progresses, the hosts delve into the film's visual presentation, contrasting it with the original Crow and its sequel. They critique the cinematography, particularly the color grading and overall aesthetic, which they feel detracts from the film's potential. The discussion brings to light how the film's lower budget may have limited its creative execution, leading to a less engaging visual experience. They also reflect on the film’s pacing and structure, acknowledging the struggle to maintain tension and interest in the latter half of the film. This analysis is punctuated with humor and shared anecdotes, making for an entertaining and enlightening listening experience.

Toward the conclusion of the episode, the hosts ponder the legacy of 'The Crow: Salvation' within the franchise. They express a shared hope for a future reboot, one that could potentially reconcile the narrative and aesthetic inconsistencies of the sequels while honoring the original's legacy. This episode stands as a testament to the hosts' ability to blend critical analysis with humor, providing listeners with a rich understanding of the film and its place in cinematic history. Their engaging banter and thoughtful reflections ensure that fans of the series will find this discussion both informative and entertaining.

Takeaways:

• The podcast discusses the evolution of the crow franchise, highlighting the differences in tone and quality among the sequels.
• Listeners learn about the creative decisions behind the crow's mask design, which deviates from previous films.
• The hosts express their enjoyment of the unexpected car crash scene, praising its execution and impact.
• There's a strong emphasis on character development, particularly in the portrayal of villains across the series.
• The discussion reveals insights into the actors' performances, noting how they handled their roles despite a weak script.
• The hosts critique the lack of cohesive world-building in the third installment, arguing it affects the overall narrative.

Movie wars.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the movie wars podcast.

I'm your host.

Yeah.

Woo.

Yeah, we did.

Yeah, we did.

Third episode.

There's a lot more for everybody else.

Yes.

Yes.

Can you turn that fucking baby down?

This is Kyle.

I'm Seph.

And I'm Drew.

That's the only quote that's worth.

Walton Goggins just randomly swinging to the fences with a turn the fucking baby down quote.

You can't get any better than that.

I literally didn't even write down a single quote from this movie.

That was a good one.

Well, here's one you've got to value your life, says Eric.

Maybe is the hallmark actor to Kirsten Dunst, who has a long career and eventually gets in a Von Trier film.

And it was because of that quote.

She really took it in.

And it's like, you know what?

I need to.

Yeah.

Von Trier called her instant is like, listen, I saw what you did with the maybes kid.

Yeah, I like Hallmark, too, but I also like the Antichrist, Willem Dafoe.

Please be depressed in this movie.

Please be melancholy.

Her awkward, sad development from the beginning to the end where she was like, totally cool murdering the dude.

I enjoyed watching that.

Like, I was like, yeah, that makes sense.

If all this stuff was happening, like, you wouldn't be okay.

And we don't end with her like, oh, she's fine.

We end with, like, I hope there's good therapy that the crow knows, or sounds like he was kind of trying to be the therapist there.

But, you know, for those of you who watched last week's episode and watched us completely eviscerate the crow city of angels, you'll be a little surprised.

We actually have some positive things to say about the crow salvation.

Yeah, yeah.

And why it's called the crow's salvation.

Salvation from what?

The masterpiece.

That was the first one.

Why are we still.

We need it.

They were like, please, if this is.

Salvation, then I'm losing my religion.

To quote Michael Stipe.

And I was telling the guys before this, the poster, the original poster says in quotation, you know, they always have quotations on the poster.

The best of the Crow sequels, all two of them.

And that's by dedcommentary.com.

Primitive Internet and the best of the two.

And it's like, please watch this movie.

We promise.

It's not like.

So, wait, they made that quote five years after the movie came out?

Yeah.

Well, no, well, whatever.

Yeah, well.

Oh, yeah.

Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

But five years later, people are finally like, this is the best one.

Oh, man.

We've been disappointed before, but honestly, like.

This was a fun movie.

This was.

It was.

You know, I'm not gonna go on any kind of Reddit and be like, this was the best movie that's ever been made.

But, like, I dare you.

I watched it today.

I was sitting down, I was drinking coffee.

It was early in the morning and it was chilled.

I was like, this is a fun for what it is.

Yeah.

It started so strong.

Unfortunately, did kind of unravel by the end, but it had, of the two sequels we've now seen, it definitely had the most potential to live up to its first.

It was the best of the sequels.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, they did something different here, which I appreciate it.

I very much appreciated the whole mystery aspect to it.

I thought it was very cool.

Yeah.

If you listen to last week, they did a bunch of research and pulled the fans on message boards on how we could do this differently.

Didn't listen to any of it.

Did a copy and paste.

Even tried to make the guy look almost exactly.

Make Vince Perez look almost exactly like Brandon Lee.

They basically did, like 90% of the same formula here.

This is a.

This is a semi.

This is a straight to vhs noir mystery film.

And let's be honest, he's not a great detective.

And apparently the crow isn't either.

But he's trying.

Yes.

I will say, of the two, I'm disappointing that.

This is the one that went straight to dvd.

Yeah.

The first one or the, you know, city of angels should definitely have not gone.

That one could have gone to dvd.

Yeah.

VCR at the time, I guess.

I don't know this.

With more resources, with a little more budget, maybe with a better actor could have done.

And there's some stuff I got some randos that might have told you where they thought this film could have been originally.

Okay.

Well, actually, kind of.

Yeah, I kind of.

It might give you some insights.

But, yeah, this is.

It's a.

More of a murder mystery.

We have a different way.

We get the mask, you know, instead of painting it on.

It's scarring.

Yeah.

Which.

Okay, just since we're talking about that already.

I thought him ripping his face off was stupid as hell.

Yeah, yeah.

But the resulting scars being in the shape of the crow makeup, I thought was a genius move to avoid the stupidity of someone else painting on, like.

Painting it on his face, having some daughter figure some.

Some straddle you and paint it on for some reason.

Yes.

Weirdly sexual, but never sexual at the same time.

Yes.

Yeah.

No, this.

This did not do that.

And.

And I think it looked better, too.

Yeah.

I agree.

Yeah.

Like, the fact that there were, there were multiple scars on.

On that part of the face.

It wasn't just the straight through line.

Again, like, I felt like they actually put some better thought into this one.

Yeah.

The crow gods knew what they were doing.

Absolutely.

They were, they learned from the.

They were like, this is gonna be the best sequel ever.

Right from the beginning of the movie, it, like, it had my interest because it was a different story.

It was a dude on death row falsely accused.

Yep.

And then one thing.

One thing I thought about when I was watching the movie, because in the first.

When we watched the first one, one of the things I said I liked was I was like, it's fun seeing, like, the cops as, like, the good guys.

Like, they were actually with this movie.

Like, and we're back.

Yeah, the police.

And these are, these are not good bad cops.

You know, Scorsese has his go to dirty cops, is, like, his mobster guys he cast in every movie.

That first one, man, I was like, like, right.

I was like, oh, we're going there.

Like, that's why I like to.

Okay, cool.

I'm digging the creepy cop.

Yeah.

Why?

When does a cough get.

Or a cup or.

God, when does that.

Thank you, old granddad.

When does a cop get to unbutton the collar and get the wife beater hanging out?

Like, when is that a thing?

Oh, my God.

I gotta say.

And I'm sure you have to either.

Be a dirty cop or you have to be, like, an old cop.

Like, the lethal weapon.

Like, I'm tired.

Like, that's when you can do the wife beater.

I'm too old to button this shirt up.

Yeah.

We're like, don't mess with him.

He doesn't button his shirt.

Yeah.

I will say, I'm sure you're gonna get to this later, and so we can cover this in more detail later.

However, this is the first time I have been impressed by the supporting cast.

Yes.

Yeah.

Such a stacked lineup.

Walton Goggins, who has now become one of the most recognizable actors around.

Tim Decay, who eventually got his fame in white collar playing Peter Burke.

In that, I kept thinking of Peter Burke.

I was like, this is his origin story.

It's his origin story, but also the complete opposite of who he is later.

I loved seeing him in a position where he's not the good guy, where he is a genuinely awful piece of shit.

So I think people were so well utilized in this movie.

A young Kirsten Dunst.

Yes, she did great.

She was.

She was post.

Bring it on.

Pre Spider man.

Yep.

Pre melancholia.

It's funny because recently she's been coming out and talking about the pay disparity between her and Tobey Maguire, which already I thought was funny because the movie's called Spider man.

The movie's not called Mary Jane.

He's the lead actor.

Literally.

But she was like, I was already.

And bring it on.

Like, I should have gotten more money.

I'm like, yes, but you were also in the crow's salvation when she's like.

I wasn't bringing on.

People were like, are you trying to tell us you should get paid less?

Yeah.

What are you.

And we got William Atherton.

And we got Fred Ward.

You know, Fred Ward's like, you know, a post.

A post taxi drive.

Well, I guess you could say post 90.

He's like.

He's like Robert De Niro, light post nineties.

You know what I mean?

He's like, you know, if you could, like, buy discount Robert De Niro at the Dollar general, you would get Fred Ward.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And meets John what's his face to play the Punisher.

Yeah.

John Bernthal.

He's like John Bernthal mixed with.

He's like a less talented John Bernthal mixed with discount Robert De Niro.

Yeah, that.

That was fun in this, because I'm not.

I don't.

I have a hard time remember actor and actress names for the life of me, but, like, it's.

I can identify them from, like, what movie?

Yeah.

And so, like, just having never seen this movie before, and.

And I've really enjoyed with this series as we've been doing this rewatch.

I do as.

I do my best to learn as little as possible before I watch the movie.

I love that I can just, like, take it all in for the first time, which was such a disappointment last week, but fun for this week, you.

Know, or you might not actually watch it.

It's like you're like, well, if the water's that cold, I don't think I'm gonna swim today.

So this was.

Cause, like, I had no idea that, like, all this all star cast was here, and it's before a lot of them are all stars.

And so it was just fun.

Like, who's gonna be in showing up next?

So, yeah, this last week, I was mad that I spent the $4 to rent city of Angels this week.

I was not mad about it.

You're like, this is worth $4.

Wait till you spend $19.99 to rent the reboot.

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Guys, Pluto tv is free, and all the crows are on it.

Really?

Even the new one?

The whole murder?

Maybe not the newer one.

Maybe, maybe not.

I haven't, but every.

But I feel like all the originals, and then, like, honestly, like, online, just type the movie and then watch free online?

Like.

Okay.

Yeah.

Police.

Yeah, you can arrest this man.

I do not condone pirating movies.

You wouldn't download a car.

Okay.

Yeah.

Or would you?

Or would you?

If you could, I 100% would download it.

I know kung fu.

You know, agreed with a lot of what you said, but the straight to vhs ver.

You know, idea of this, I will say one thing.

It is kind of like, you know, I know you're not a sports fan.

I haven't.

I don't know you well enough.

Do you like sports at all?

I enjoy them, but I don't follow them.

I'm a die hard sports fan.

And.

No, I love sports jerseys.

And.

But they're really expensive.

And it's kind of like when you go to that chinese website thinking, maybe this thing will look exactly like I want.

I know it's only.

I know it's only $30, and I gotta buy 50 of them to cover the shipping from China, but maybe it will be the.

The cowboy jersey I want.

And it shows up and the numbers are backwards and the name played sideways.

It's the wrong shade of blue.

It's Nikkei instead of Nike.

And you commit to.

You're like, what?

I mean, it's fine.

Like, I bought it.

Like, yeah, I'll wear this.

That's kind of what this is.

It's like, you know, it is.

You know, it's a straight division.

And we talked about, with the last episode with the City of Angels, they were going to do a widespread release of this film.

It only aired in one theater.

I think it was, like, in Spokane, some random city.

But it wasn't just the failure.

The first one was not profitable.

Although.

Although it was the biggest release on Labor Day, at the time it broke Labor Day records.

The fan base, the critics, it was.

It was just shat on, you know?

And it was two years removed from Brandon Lee, this cult figure, which some argue.

I don't agree with this, but some argue the reason the movie was so successful was because of his death.

I disagree.

I think it has merit on its own.

But say that is the case.

You gave it two years, Brandon Lee's barely settled in his grave, and they're already doing like.

And we got Harvey and Bob Weinstein cutting the thing up.

Yeah.

I was like, it's not like they did like, if they did it well after the two years, it might be like, wow, this was such a testament to.

It'd be like a fast and furious seven, if you will.

Yeah.

We're like, there's his contractually obligated fast and furious reference, ladies and gentlemen.

It was a good tribute.

It's the fact that it's like, if I just pooped in this cigarette tray, and if you're a listener, there's a cigarette tray in front of me.

I'm not lying.

And then I was like, here's my tribute.

You'd be like, no.

Yes.

Okay, I gotta talk about the cigar ashtray for a second.

I just felt like it was very appropriate to remember that Pfizer was giving people cigarette and ashtrays.

So take that as you will, ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah, inject that shit.

Yeah.

A lot of people do.

It's a real problem.

Oh, that's a thing.

It's a thing.

Injecting nicotine straight in their arms.

Yeah.

And I think one thing you see, too, and one degrading element, and, you know, I haven't watched wicked prayer in a very long time, so I can't speak to that because I can't remember.

That's a movie I didn't, like, wasn't dying to revisit.

I've been told by numerous people there's just like, it's, be careful.

They keep telling me, like, don't want.

Just do yourself a favor and not watch it.

Dennis Opera ruins his life.

I was like, I am going to watch it.

I'm contractually obligated to watch this movie.

This movie is going to exist in my head.

It's going to harden you.

Is that the next one?

I can't wait to watch it if it's as bad as everybody.

Yeah, it's one of those.

That's fun to watch with friends is comedically bad, but, yeah, you know, the.

The lack.

It's funny with each entry so far.

One.

One thing that really intrigues me is how they.

One thing that I think is, is bad for the franchise, no matter what the story is, is that the.

The physicality of the protagonist has decreased over time.

Vincent Perez, although he was physical and did things we talked about, one of the reasons Brandon Lee was so successful because he was so poetic.

He was like water.

He was.

It wasn't just the fighting.

It was how he talked and how he moved.

And he was this physical, nonverbal presence.

Vincent Perez had none of that.

But he's still.

He's still pummeling people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A little physical, but it's telegraph.

Yeah.

Here.

There were moments when he was going after the villains or whatever.

I'm like, is.

Oh, wait, he's.

Is he doing anything?

Oh, okay.

He's gonna punch a guy.

Like, yeah.

There was one, the car one.

The car said, so good.

Yeah, that was the one.

And what to.

To really shit on City of Angels here.

That kill was better than any kill in City of Angels.

Yes.

Shitty.

Yes.

That was well done.

Well done.

Actually, that's movie wars.

That's movie wars legacy right there.

Playing puns and playing words.

We gotta bring it back.

Hell yes.

Trying to honor Drew 1.0.

Yes.

Yes.

Drew is the master.

And.

But, yeah, that was cool.

When I was.

I didn't expect it, honestly.

Like, so I was expecting when.

Cause I was.

It was like, as soon as he started driving was like, oh, they're gonna crash into something.

Neither of them are buckled.

I was expecting it to be this super overdramatic moment where they, like, fly through the windshield and they're like, ah, in slow motion.

No, it was so visceral.

Just the moment where they both fly through that windshield, hit the truck, and it's like, 3 seconds.

You really don't have time to, like, process it until after it's happened.

I thought that was so well done.

Yeah, I literally, when I watched, I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, that's the moment I, like, really tried to take it seriously, and then it sadly disappointed me after that.

But great moment.

I like, I liked his, like, even though he was less physical than the other crows, which is probably not the technical term for them, but.

No, I think so.

Yeah.

Physicality in general, and that doesn't just mean pummeling.

Physicality can be like, yeah, I felt like his.

His dialogue and his vibe was like, the things he was saying.

I kind of dug that a little bit more.

And what I've really liked that they've done in all three movies is they give once they're resurrected and they have the crow in them.

They have this weird, manic personality that it started with Brandon Lee.

And whether it's been good or bad, the others have done their version of it.

Even Jonah.

Jonah Earl, when he got crowed.

Yeah.

Which, again, I'm sure the crows would tell me there's get a little bit.

Of crow when you go straight to.

Your head and you get that same manic energy.

And I've enjoyed watching all their different interpretations of the manic energy.

Definitely.

I can't wait when we finally have a movie from the crow's perspective and get it straight from the source.

Yes.

Yeah.

And maybe Harvey Weinstein, if you're watching.

From prison, enjoy your algae eaten penis or whatever.

What is that disease he has?

Has like a.

I think it's like his taint is rotting, is what it is.

Yeah.

Apparently, it's just disgust.

I have a feeling I know why.

Maybe it turned, turned one of your favorite things that you loved in the first one, the flashbacks.

I mean.

Yeah, they're fucking unforgivable.

Absolutely.

In this one, they are.

The second one, we're bad.

This is, this is, this is malpractice.

Drawn out over sappy and dramatic.

It was.

It was beyond hallmark.

It was edging into lifetime movie territory as far as, like, how bad those flash.

Like, my God, it just, they're sitting there and dancing, and then it's like, oh, but did she.

She was cheating on him.

I felt like she hated him.

I was like, are you sure you want to avenge this one?

Like, yeah, like.

Like, she's kind of a bitch.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, british accent, and they're doing some weird kung fu they made up and.

Yeah, they were trying.

It was like, I feel like someone when they were trying, like, this is adorable.

Yeah, this is.

This is.

It was a single guy who's like, this is what couples do.

You can almost hear the director behind the camera being just like, this is cool.

Yeah.

And this is one of the few times in my life watching a movie, I'm like, they're forcing me to watch this.

Yeah.

Like, I'm being forced.

I watch this because I have a podcast.

Like, I.

I was angry.

Yeah.

I was like, you.

I was like, the first half, I'm like, there's some stuff.

And we're coming solid.

Yeah, we're coming off city of angels.

Yeah.

It gets a little bit of a bogey for being straight to video, but I'm seeing things here that are.

It's different.

It's creative, but I don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think they knew when they were shooting it.

It was going to be direct to video.

No, they didn't.

Yeah, they were assuming it was gonna be a theatrical release and I could.

Here's the thing about the second one that bothered me so much.

You could tell that it was not a passion project like the first one.

Yeah, first one.

Every single person in front of and behind the camera, you could feel that they were genuinely making something they wanted to make.

The second one, not a single person gave me the attitude of, we're all in this to make something cool.

They were cashing in on Lee's legacy.

Absolutely.

Third one.

However, at least for the first half, I felt like everyone actually gave a shit.

Yeah, it seemed like they, either they were having a good time or they were being good actors and doing their job.

Like, I did enjoy, like the story, I enjoyed the actors performances.

It did kind of.

The point it kind of went.

Got boring for me was when he kind of killed his last guy and he was going for the.

When he got, like.

Was going for the military guy, like when he was, like, when at the end.

Because like, how did he get this?

I was gonna ask you guys this cuz I feel like I missed something.

How did he get vulnerable?

Was it cuz he finished his task and he lost his power?

I think so.

Yeah, yeah.

Cuz that was.

It's not very clear.

Yeah, yeah, and that's, that's where I was like.

Cuz in the last one I felt like the director's like, how do I end this?

Oh, I know, a beam of crows takes away.

Yeah, and this one they're like, how do we end this one?

Yeah, I guess we'll just.

So.

Yeah, yeah, and that, that part would.

That was right about when he was like on that table was.

And I was like, are we still going?

Yeah, there unfortunately were several times like, I literally paused the movie where I thought we were like gonna hit the third, final part of the, you know, the third act.

And then I realized I had 40 minutes left in the movie.

Yeah.

I was like, oh God, no.

We're gonna get into attack dawn ending here.

Yeah, I literally, I literally just started working out because I was so bored by that.

Yeah, there's some dumbbells right off camera there and I literally just stood right there watching this movie.

If you're listening.

Whoa.

Badass motherfucker right here.

Holy.

Yeah.

Speaking of inflation.

Oh God.

Thanks, Joe Biden.

Yes.

You know one thing too, at first I didn't love this, but I think it's more like time and context.

Like we talk a lot about time and context.

The first one, one thing I loved is how there's, we talked about how little exposition there was and they really let the visuals scream.

Yeah.

And I love how Brandon Lee explored learning his powers.

When he's jumping on the roof, he's like, the second one, there's almost, no, there's not a lot of that.

He's not really falling in love with his powers.

He's not like slowly.

He's kind of just like, there.

Like everything about would have been this story.

If he was a reluctant crow and he was trying to figure out how to stay.

I'm telling you, they could have.

Yeah.

Hire me to reboot.

Yeah, shitty of angels.

But everything, yes, everything was so rushed.

But in this one, they, and the reason I actually thought I didn't love it, but I do respect it.

They purposely wanted to get a younger crow.

Yeah.

And funny enough, I don't even have this in my randos, but Eric Mabias did audition to be the crow in the first one.

Oh, yeah, he actually auditioned, but they just said he was too young.

Yeah, they wanted a young crow.

I love that he got this role then.

It's crazy.

That was seven years later.

Yeah.

It means, and he still looked like a child.

It was like, I still have faith in.

Yeah, I can do this.

Well, I mean, they castigated him to the Hallmark channel.

He did a lot of hallmark work.

The director himself, I looked like.

Not a lot of notable credits outside of this movie.

Yeah.

But he, yeah, that's saying something.

If I don't recognize any project you've done, you're not doing.

Yeah.

What a cast.

How did he get all these people?

Weinstein, Harvey Miramax.

When you look, here's, here's the unfortunate thing about the nineties through the early aughts is that Miramax had a stranglehold on the entertainment industry in general.

Harvey Weinstein was the fucking man.

Every movie that he put out at some point was going to make back at least a little.

Even if it made back a dollar, it was going to make back the money that he put in to it.

If you had Harvey Weinstein as your executive producer, there was a really high chance that it was going to do okay.

So when you.

Yeah, and as a young Kirsten Dunst, as a Walton goggins who's never done anything of note by then, Tim decay, all these people who, who had a little, just enough to have some notoriety, they all saw that Harvey Weinstein was on board and they were like, cool.

This is going to be at least something decent.

So dimension did the distribution.

Okay.

I was wondering, because they also.

They were also the production, though.

Miramax was the one who produced.

Okay.

Yeah.

Because you.

That's not.

Yeah.

It's not the same.

Like, you can have one distribution and so you can have several production companies.

Yeah, you're right.

Because you got Kiersten Dunst at a weird moment in her career where she's kind of a young Walton Goggins.

Yeah, it's pretty wild how they got these folks.

In the next one.

You got Edward Furlong, Tara Reid, and Dennis Hopper.

So, I mean, somehow was one of my crushes.

I'm excited.

I'm already thinking.

I already think the next one's my favorite.

Yeah.

I don't want to tarot read into that, you know?

Do we have our first female?

She's the crow.

Yes.

Yes.

American crow.

Furlong.

Is this is post rehab Edward Furlong.

Yeah, probably.

Yeah.

I mean, what if you guys are going to be.

I love that you're asking these questions because you guys are going to be shocked by the premise of, of the wicked prince.

It's gonna blow you away.

Yeah.

At least they tried something, I guess.

Yeah, this one tried something.

Yeah, it did.

And it did.

Yeah.

And I like the electric.

I like the electric chair.

I like, I like the new elements here.

Revenge, his own murder.

Unjust charge.

Yeah.

And I will say I did the biggest question I had after watching this whole movie.

How the hell do you peel your own face off and have a better face underneath?

That's true.

Like, how did that happen?

Crows, man, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's got that Judah Earl in him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Judah always looked good.

Judah.

Judah was up there after being sucked into the crow vortex.

Like, I got you, buddy.

Yeah.

Judah Earl, he's got the best face cream regimen of any villain in any movie.

Right?

Like.

Cause he didn't ever die.

He just evaporated.

CGI.

Yeah.

He just in Crow hell.

So he could easily come back.

I've listened, I've read a lot and listened to a lot of podcasts.

No one knows what the hell happened to Judah Earl.

We just comes back as a pelican.

That'd be funny.

That'd be great.

I would so be down with that.

Every bird has a job to do.

Also, I didn't think about this for the second episode, but I made a point today that I wanted to say this.

I want to recant something I said in the first episode when we were talking about what would be a good bird to like instead of the crow, what would be another movie to have, like, that guiding spirit animal.

And we all agreed that Condor.

I feel like I started that, and I've discovered that is such a dumb answer compared to the correct answer, which is it should have been an ostrich.

Can you imagine this movie with an.

Or a peacock?

I'm kind of undecided, but, like, a flightless bird is the one that's just running around.

I mean, I did say penguin.

That's true.

You did?

I did say penguin.

So, yeah.

Can you imagine a gang of penguins, like, picking the kind of rock I can, and they can't fly.

They can't fly.

They gotta just run off the screen.

Yes.

It's gonna take the protagonist, like, a year to find the next villainous doster's just like, I'll be there in a minute.

I'm gonna run.

I don't walk.

Evolution.

Skip me.

I just walk.

I got wings, but they don't work.

They're too tiny.

My eggs are tasty, though.

Can feed a whole village on one egg.

That's how the other people get the gross flowers.

They take the eggs and serving up breakfast, like, eat all of this except chives.

Who wants cheese on there?

Jonah's like, I got a great biscuit gravy recipe you guys are gonna love.

I love that we keep running with his birdhouse.

It is funny.

Like, it's.

It does make things, like, well, why?

What other creatures could have taken the soul out of the ground?

Before I get to the questions, quick call to action.

Just, hey, if you love this podcast, share with your friends.

I know you got a friend out there that loves the crow salvation.

That loves it.

Make sure they have this in their pocket.

Look, even if they like Terminator salvation, it shares a word, so just send it to that person.

I think you should be the good friend in the relationship.

And even if they don't even know the crow salvation exists, share this with them and be like.

And just.

You're welcome, is all you have to.

Say, lest you be saved.

Yes.

Yes.

All right.

I only got one question.

He liked that.

I just said it.

You love.

I love it when you say something else that was literally just the Pez dispenser brain.

Like, whatever's next.

The statement.

Yeah.

I don't know why I write questions like, I'm a show.

Like a talk show host.

I literally.

I wrote this kind of what this is.

Yeah, it is true.

I wrote this, like, couches and everything.

Yeah.

What is this?

The crow TED talk edition.

Value your life.

Could we have called it that?

Because, listen, I agree with everything we're saying about the positives here, but it's a little cheesy that at every opportunity, Alex Corvus is, like, value your life.

He's, like, giving.

He's, like, giving a motivational message.

Freeze the stripper from the strip of the pole.

It's just like, value your life.

I'm just like.

I know.

It's like, okay.

I'm like, I get it.

You came back, but literally, you were dead for all of ten minutes.

But, yeah, he was like.

He was on death row.

He was unjustly accused of a murder.

He's learned the system failed you.

Like, did have three years to sit and.

Yeah, I feel like.

Yeah, like, he's like, he might be, like, a nicer guy than the other two girls.

Yeah.

Like, I wouldn't.

Draven was a rock star.

Yeah, he's still.

I mean, he still was the best he could.

He could knock them all out.

I still don't really know what.

Fucking ash was a mechanic.

Oh, was he?

Okay, but you have to read to find that.

Apparently it's not.

No clue, because his auto shop looked like the rest of fucking rundown city.

I didn't even know his auto shop.

Yeah, yeah, it looks like someone broke into an old auto shop, but that's his auto shop.

Did we ever learn what this guy was?

Other than a convict?

I feel like we should call him a felon.

A guy that generates flashbacks.

A dude who fucked a british girl who made up kung fu.

Yeah, a guy with a hot girlfriend.

That's all we need.

Like, okay, we're cool with him as the hero of the story.

There's sexy british accents, and then there's the one in this movie.

All you need is a good dick.

And apparently you can just be a great action hero.

Yes.

I still think it's weird that throughout these movies, there's never someone who's like, oh, yeah, this.

This same thing happened five years ago.

Yeah.

What we need to do.

Or, like, at this point, people are like.

And that is kind of my.

One of my, like, my complaint of the movie.

Although I think, to answer the question, if it was a tech todd, I think at some point, someone in this universe would be like, stop murdering people, because they may come back with the spirit of a crow and kill you and everybody else.

Yeah, I said this in the last one, but the last one kind of did follow this circumstance.

It being the third movie, like, the stakes need to be higher.

So, like, the first one, he was avenging the person that killed his lover, and that was kind of the thing.

The second one, you had, like, a evil crow could kind of play the field.

The play the field.

Yeah, they were just the third one, they had the strip club where they were playing the field at.

It's great.

And this one, like, it just seemed like there just wasn't as much stakes.

Especially by the end.

Yeah.

Like, at the end, I was like, I didn't care about the boss fight, whereas the other two, they built it up to a moment where the boss fights.

Yeah, this definitely felt like the most wasted big bad guy because, yeah, there was a little bit of mystery of, oh, he's really the corrupt one who's letting the corruption get through.

But you never really felt for the good cop.

Yeah.

Like, you.

You didn't get enough development with him.

Even though I did think the chess idea was a cool thing to add to it, you never really got any emotional connection like you did with.

With Ernie Hudson in the first movie.

He was there so that you could feel worse about the bad.

Exact whole point in that was to eventually be killed.

Exactly.

Frustrating.

And it was such a lame death to just be like, oh, I'm gonna shoot you.

Okay, there we go.

And then they try to fool you with the friend lawyer whose arm is gone, and they're trying to make you think and like.

But by that time, like you said, like, when you see there's 40 minutes left, by that time, I'm like, I don't care.

Yeah, make it be the lawyer.

I don't care.

If they had made that movie an hour and 15 minutes, it could have been a fan fucking testing.

Yeah, that would have been a good shorter movie.

Was there any point to the scars of the guy, like, the screws and, like, did that end up coming to play for anything?

That's another big thing that that's something people do.

I researched it.

Like, people do that.

But it's not common knowledge that people put metal in their arms to make scar looking things.

And the fact that they.

I mean, they predicated the whole premise on the finding the scar ardam.

But most people I know, a lot of weird, random shit.

I didn't know people shoved metal into their arms.

Okay, so hold on.

Am I the only one with tattoos out of the three of us?

Yeah.

Okay, so as a tattoo connoisseur, my entire arm, I've got tattoos all in other places I have known about.

And usually it's silicone.

Like people.

I don't know how it was back in the day.

But as far as, like, when I've been getting tattoos, it's silicone that people will put under to have, like, this raised kind of situation.

So I did know it was a thing.

I did not feel any purpose for it in this movie other than it was an identifier.

And you're wondering, who's the scarlet?

I thought so.

Do you ever, like, accidentally write a better movie than what you're watching?

Every time I watch, the whole time.

I'm watching this with the better.

I thought they were gonna be the things from the second movie that he used to stab the crow and get the power from.

Oh, yeah.

And I was like.

I was like, that could have been cool, right?

I was like, so if, like, I was figuring at some point he's gonna take him out.

See, that would force them to do logic.

Yeah.

Like, actual writing, trying to play within.

The rules of this universe.

And the movies are like, we don't do that anymore.

How dare you challenge the best crow sequel.

Yes.

Out of the two.

I know.

Yeah.

The best crow sequel ever.

Which is sad because.

Because at the time, that is true.

It was the better of the two crow sequels.

We got a lot of work to do, though.

Yeah.

Terror reads in the next one, so we already know that's gonna be.

That's true.

If she doesn't show her tits, I don't know if it's worth it.

Yeah, man.

So.

And I, you know, it is weird, I guess, for me.

Like, I took it a different way.

This guy was betrayed by the system, you know, and he was wrongfully accused, wrongfully convicted, and he was killed for it and lost his life.

Which, again, really cool part point.

Yeah, yeah.

But it comes out the end, positive.

I'd be like, fuck the system.

Yeah.

Instead of telling the stripper to value your life, I'd be like, don't ever get arrested because they will f you.

They will put you in the chair.

God forbid you be black.

And again, that.

That's part of the problem with it being straight to video is like, they did this in the first one when he's squeezing the morphine of her arm.

But that's heavy.

He's squeezing drugs.

And he just killed her boyfriend by stabbing him with eight freaking syringes of heroin.

Yeah.

You know, and, like.

And that was heavy.

And he knew her daughter, and so there was.

And it was very unassuming but very, like, hard to watch.

This is just like, value your life, you know?

It's like, I don't know who you are.

But value your life value.

He's just a nicer dude.

Like, he just got the second chance.

He's like, well, let me go.

Maybe that's a super power.

Yeah.

And also, they zoomed in on her arm, and I had to research this because, like, I was like, are they trying to make it seem like those are track marks from heroin?

And that is what they were trying to do.

But, like, those don't look like collapsed veins that, you know, I'm a die hard.

We talked about this in the first episode.

Nineties Seattle music.

I know what track marks.

I really thought you're.

I'm a die hard heron fan.

I'm a die hard track.

And then you're like, we've talked about this before.

I'm like, I'm pretty sure we haven't.

I don't think we did.

We were at Waffle House.

Remember the drugs?

But I'm like, they were.

It was so fast, and the lights were pulsating.

There were, like, bumps on her arm, and, like, why did they show us that?

Like, could have been zits.

Those could have been zits.

Like, value your life.

You have acne.

See, that's what I love about, like, crappy movies.

Yeah.

Is when you see that efforts were made.

It just was something stupid.

Yeah.

Then I'm like, you know what?

Cool.

Okay.

They tried, at least.

Yeah.

It's, like, more than you could say about the second one.

It's like how, like, when parents name their kids and they don't have a creative bone in their body, but, like, when they decide to have a kid, like, all of a sudden they're creative, and they're gonna name their kid, like, they're gonna, like, do a crazy version of, like, Kyle spelled k I g.

A.

I get so annoyed with those parents when I meet their kids.

That's, like, what this is when you.

Have to spell the names.

I'm just like, what?

I'm not spelling that way.

These folks are never gonna get to do a mainstream film.

Yeah.

And so they're like, how creative can we be?

Like, zoom in on the arm.

It's like, well, what are the.

They'll know.

Like, are you sure?

Yeah, they'll know.

Those are track marks.

Like, well, they kind of look like just bumps, and the lights are kind of crazy.

Do it.

Yeah.

Don't get it.

You know, there had to be, like, one person was like, like, this is the best thesis.

Everyone else is like, let Jeff have this.

I have been on so many local sets where I'm watching the director and the screenwriter and the producer all behind the camera watching the most pointless shot I've ever seen happen in, like, their Nolan film.

And they're just like, we are gonna change lives.

Yes.

Yeah.

We're gonna change everyone's life.

Who sees this?

And then no one sees it.

Yeah.

I wrote a sketch for a reel, and then we, like, filmed it and did it, and it was like.

But it was like, there's like, there was a, like, a dream sequence, like, where I says, at a gym.

So I was.

I was in the real sequence.

I was lifting small weights, and then I was so excited about this little subtle touch.

I was, like, putting the dream sequence, because it's, like, my perception of things.

Yeah, give me the biggest weights to lift.

And I was like, I mean, people are gonna be like, that was the coolest thing ever.

I think you two are the only other people that know that.

That's the thing I just said.

It's like a 45 2nd reel.

No one's ever been like, wow, look at those waves.

You got pumped.

But, like, when I.

Like, when we were in there filming is like, no, trust me, this will be.

This is.

This is gonna hit.

Yeah.

Nuance is a thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Watch social media.

Reels are like, I want.

I want good new.

Yeah.

I don't know why this is coming to mind, but it reminds me of the office.

What was Pam's boyfriend's name originally?

Roy.

Roy.

Yeah.

Is the best art.

That's literally everybody in this movie right now.

Your art is the best art, so.

Yeah, so I know.

Good for them for making the heroin marks.

I'm glad they did.

That.

Looked like pimples.

Some makeup artist is very proud.

Yes.

Yeah.

They probably did the makeup for the crow on the next one.

Yeah.

Can't wait.

I've heard that's the best one.

The only holdover.

It's like, why don't you do the mask on the main character?

We might need to watch that one together just to get through it, right?

Yeah, no, it's true.

You need to phone a friend on that one.

Yeah, maybe we can.

I might force my roommate to watch it with me.

Yeah, she's a guest next week.

I don't know what.

No context.

Don't ever watch any of the other ones.

Yeah, she's gonna, like, renege on her contract to live in this house.

Like, I can't believe you did that to me.

It's like, how do you know it was time to move when they asked me to watch a crow movie?

The crow four wicked prayer.

Just the fact that they called it wicked prayer.

You're like, oh, God.

But I.

What is this, a hocus pocus?

I can't help but think it's, like, a Boston guy.

Wicked prayer.

Wicked.

That was a wicked prayer.

That's a wicked prayer.

Oh, my God.

That's funny.

Thank you.

Random.

Why do I use so many hand motions by Rando?

You're giving bonus content for the YouTube.

Yeah, it's uncomfortable to say bonus and render.

I know the.

I know the vitriol that this creates with a small segment of the podcast population.

Most love it.

But I say randos and some people go for the knife.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

They can do their thing.

Yeah, Rando.

That's right.

So I was aching to say this earlier, but I didn't want to ruin the random because you were saying things, both of you, that, like, alluded to this originally.

Rob Zombie wrote, directed, and scored this film.

He spent 18 months on it.

And.

But the idea, again, someone with a different idea.

It was an older crow.

It was gonna be kind of a western.

This sounds so Rob zombie, doesn't it?

Guess who was gonna play the older version of the Crow.

Scott Glenn from silence of the lambs.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

I was gonna guess.

I was gonna guess Sam Elliott.

I was honestly gonna guess Rob zombie.

That's the guy.

Yeah, I'm gonna do it myself.

So, wait, did he actually direct a version of this, or.

He was just on board to.

It was hard to find exactly what they got done, but I know for 18 months, he at least got it written and stuff was in place, and he progressed it.

I don't know how much they actually got done.

Okay.

I don't think at least did a.

Lot of pre production.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

This is.

I'm going to look it up.

Devil's rejects had.

That was his first film, right?

I honestly am not very familiar.

I know he did the Halloween reboots, but I'm pretty sure those were after this.

Yeah, way after.

Yeah.

Drew, keep talking.

I have nothing to consequence.

Was that the first.

Oh, no, the first one was.

Oh, okay.

I was about to say that.

You were?

I could sense it.

Yeah, I could sense it in your check marks.

Yep.

Yeah.

I don't remember.

Value your life.

But, yeah.

So, also, like, in that city, everyone's like, no.

Yeah.

You say where we value your life.

This would have been his first feature film.

It would have.

That's what I was getting at.

So this, because I said so, I kind of misspoke early.

I was like, well, it actually could have been a bigger deal, but the only.

But Rob zombie did have a big music career.

Oh, absolutely.

Directed all of his music videos, so he at least had the.

The expertise to come in and do a film.

Yeah, I feel.

I feel like he.

This would have been a good one for him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, I mean, he eventually really leans into hyper violence and over sexualization.

I do think he.

I think he's a good filmmaker, but has crutches, but having the limitations of tv.

Well, I say that, but there's nudity in this.

Like, I was thinking, was this an after hours thing or something?

I mean, it was direct to dvd.

Like, it wasn't tv movie.

Okay.

Direct to video.

So you can kind of do whatever you want.

Okay.

Those don't usually get raised.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I would like to see that.

Yeah, I think it would probably been a pretty interesting movie.

I.

Again, I like the idea of an older crow, too.

Yeah, let's get him for the reboot.

When they reboot the second one, let's get him to direct.

Yeah, he loves mashups, man.

He loves, he loves, like, mixing stuff up.

Has his monsters movie come out yet?

I just saw it pop up on my search.

It came out two years ago.

I didn't even know.

I didn't even watch it.

Oh, man.

I might have to look that up.

Honestly.

Very curious about it.

He lost me with Halloween, too.

I never watched any of the Halloween movies that he did.

They're just, I mean, Mike Myers is six foot ten.

It's like, it's so hyper violent.

I don't mind violence, but it's just like, over the top.

Yeah, there does come a point where it's like this.

Yeah, it's just not fun anymore.

And the first one didn't lean on the violence.

You know, the violence was so subtle.

That's what made it great.

Anyway, that would have been interesting.

He also auditioned for Funboy.

Oh, yeah.

I actually wanted to say this, too, when we were talking about the cast, but Eric Mabius also doesn't have top billing here.

There are three people, so.

Well, yeah, I guess he kind of was on the lower tier of the.

The stars of the movie.

Yeah.

And it's all about the order of which, you know, who gets paid the most.

Yeah, the order of.

Let me find the order was Kirsten Dunst top bill?

She was top bill because she, she.

Had done some stuff before that.

Yeah.

So she had been acting as a child, and then I think the year before this had done bringing on.

Yep.

There are three people listed before.

Maybe so Kristen Dunst, William Atherton, and then Debbie fan all made more money than he did.

Crazy to me.

Because he was, like, the lead.

Yes.

Yeah.

But it's like, it doesn't.

The amount that you get paid does not really matter on who you play.

It matters on what you've done before that.

Like, Robert Downey Juniore, for all the Avengers guys, had to convince them to renegotiate all their contracts after the first Avengers movie because he looked at them and he was like, guys, you guys are superstars now.

You have to be making way more money than you've signed on for.

So he, at the time, I think each of them were making under a million dollars for their first movies, and then they did the Avengers, and he was like, no, no, no.

We've got to make sure you guys are getting way more money.

Yeah.

And there are films where this becomes an issue.

Like, I remember we did the firm and, like, you know, there's a big issue between Tom Cruise and, gosh, what's his face?

Gene Hackman.

Okay.

And Gene Hackman.

Like, all of a sudden, this is when Tom Cruise all sudden was top bill.

He had, like, kind of hit that.

And all sudden, they didn't put, they weren't going to put Gene Hackman's name on the poster.

Oh, wow.

Because top Bill has a bunch of definitions.

It's pay, but it's also literally top bill, who's at the top of the poster.

That's what its origins are.

And it's all sudden, like, Gene Hackman's like, wait, my name's not on the poster?

Who's, who's this time?

What?

It's.

It's kind of interesting.

So you kind of have to look at it a number of ways.

And I get it from, like, a business standpoint of, like, the idea is you're gonna bring in these bigger names and the movie is gonna make more money.

You know, in the end, everybody wins because it's profiting.

Yeah.

But then, like, it's also like, I've, I've done shows before where, like, you know, the headliner is like a c list comedian who just doesn't want to do a ton of time.

Yeah.

And I'm there to host or feature.

And, like, why don't you do as much time as me?

And I'm like, because I'm not getting paid as much as you.

Why don't you split your paycheck with me?

Yeah, I'll do as much time as you want.

Yeah.

So, like, in my brain, it's like the leading actor has had the most to do, but is getting paid less.

Yeah.

And it just kind of doesn't feel right.

But then when you think about it from a business standpoint, you're like, but I see that it's the way that it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or they didn't have a very good agent.

Yeah.

I mean, that's also a possibility.

Yeah.

And the last rando here, this is kind of a small thing, but this is the first one in the series that wasn't directed by someone who was a musician, video director.

Oh, interesting.

So that's interesting to think about, because.

The first two soundtrack, I didn't feel like maybe.

I feel it had a better soundtrack than the second one did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The only thing about the second one was that Deftone song, which rocks.

But.

But they.

They def.

Rob zombie definitely did music for this one.

Yeah, he did.

He has songs in it.

Yeah, yeah.

A couple I heard.

Yeah.

And I think that's an important fact because, you know, because music.

They were trying to cast rock stars in the first two.

In the first one, Draven is a rock star.

Like, there's so much music embedded in this one.

That's not really.

Yeah, that's not really something they included.

He's a therapist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's a therapist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, is that what he was?

No, yeah.

He's just a guy.

He's a felon.

He's a guy.

We just literally know that he had an old pickup truck, got into an argument, and then a guy with metal in his arm knife.

And that's literally all we know about this guy.

Another kind of weird thing.

We don't know Jack about this guy, like, at all.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then he has.

That is the other interesting thing about this, is that this guy has no real connection to anyone still alive.

Yeah.

The.

The.

Kirsten Dunstan's character didn't really know him.

Like, she knew who he was, but you could tell they didn't have a relationship because also, this is the first time, I feel like, in the movies where no one recognized him.

Yeah.

Like, he's literally sitting there beating the shit out of someone who killed him, and the guy doesn't even realize that it's.

It took a lot of time.

Yeah, like, it's.

It's.

It's weird.

Maybe that's why I didn't get paid as much.

They were like, yeah, we don't even know who you are.

Like, yeah, it is funny.

I just.

It just hit me.

It's like, God, this is the first time we, like, don't know anything.

I mean, I guess we only know you didn't.

I mean, it didn't.

They didn't make it clear in city of angels that he was a mechanic.

I had to read that, so.

Yeah, true.

But at the same time, it's like he still had connections to people who were around, and people recognized him.

Like, the people who killed him recognized who he was?

Yeah.

In this one, literally nobody.

Even up until he killed them, most of the people didn't recognize him.

Yeah.

They ended up recognizing him as a guy that's immortal, that's going around killing them.

Yeah, that's why they were like, oh, crap, he's coming after.

Whenever he would ask about the scars, everyone would be like, oh, that guy made it up.

Whoever.

Whoever he actually is.

They were like, oh, he made it up in the third person.

They were never referring to him as him.