Shownotes
In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Thomas Kunjappu sits down with Amaan Hussain, Director of HR at The Acquisition Group, to explore how HR leaders can adopt AI without sacrificing the human connection that defines their organization. With over a decade of experience leading HR strategy in high-growth, direct-to-consumer environments, Amaan shares how his team balances efficiency, empathy, and scale in a world increasingly shaped by technology.
Amaan explains why his organization is intentionally cautious about where AI shows up and where it does not. He outlines a clear guardrail that guides every technology decision: AI can improve speed, consistency, and insight, but it should never replace the core human relationships that drive performance, trust, and differentiation. From recruiting and coaching to sales enablement, he shares how a hybrid model allows AI to augment work without eroding what makes the business successful.
The conversation also explores recruiting and managing Gen Z in high-touch, in-person roles. Amaan discusses how generational shifts, post-pandemic expectations, and increased access to information are changing how candidates evaluate employers. He explains why adapting leadership style matters more than trying to change the workforce, and how culture, growth opportunity, and human connection remain powerful advantages even in a tech-saturated market.
Topics Discussed:
- Protecting human connection as a core business and HR value
- Being strategic, not reactive, with AI adoption
- Where AI can improve efficiency without replacing judgment
- Using AI for coaching, feedback, and skill development
- Recruiting and engaging Gen Z for non-remote, high-touch roles
- Adapting leadership styles to generational shifts
- Creating guardrails for HR technology decisions
- Balancing productivity gains with long-term culture and trust
If you are an HR leader, people strategist, or executive navigating AI adoption while trying to preserve culture, credibility, and human connection, this episode offers a practical and grounded perspective on how to do both well.
Additional Resources:
Transcripts
Our approach is we are very strategic in our AI adoption, right?
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So within our company, our
core is human connection.
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Our core is to build relationship
with our clients, with our
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stakeholders and our customers.
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We are very hesitant on
replacing that with AI.
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So we do not want AI to connect
on our behalf to the other human
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beings because that's our core
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Thomas Kunjappu: They keep
telling us that it's all over.
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For HR, the age of AI is upon
us, and that means HR should
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be prepared to be decimated.
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We reject that message.
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The future of HR won't be handed to us.
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Instead, it'll be defined by those
ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.
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Future Proof HR invites these builders to
share what they're trying, how it's going,
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what they've learned, and what's next.
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We are committed to arming HR
with the AI insights to not
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just survive, but to thrive.
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Hello and welcome to the Future Proof
HR podcast, where we explore how
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forward-thinking HR leaders are preparing
for disruption and redefining what it
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means to lead people in a changing world.
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I'm your host, Thomas
Kunjappu, CEO of Cleary.
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Today's guest is Amaan Hussain,
Director of HR at The Acquisition
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Group, one of Canada's fastest-growing
marketing and sales organizations
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with over 600 employees nationwide.
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Amaan is a certified CPHR with a decade
of experience leading HR strategy,
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talent operations, and data-driven people
initiatives across diverse industries.
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Amaan and his team are tackling one
of HR's toughest modern challenges,
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preserving human connection in a world
increasingly shaped by technology.
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We'll talk about balancing efficiency and
empathy, recruiting Gen Z for high-touch
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roles, and where AI fits in and where
it doesn't in the people function.
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Amaan, welcome to the podcast.
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Amaan Hussain: Thank you, Thomas.
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Thank you for the wonderful introduction,
and thank you for having me.
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Thomas Kunjappu: So let's get right
into this unique differentiator,
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something that you talk about.
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The direct-to-consumer, you talk about.
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The direct-to-consumer sales model that
you're embodying with your organization
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and the concept of human connection,
which is a key part of the differentiator
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overall for your organization.
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What you look for in talent
and I think is part of your
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philosophy on the HR side as well.
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So could you tell me a little
bit about that philosophy?
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Amaan Hussain: Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Before I dive into the philosophy, just
to build a context around our company and
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what we do, it will then all make sense.
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So company, The Acquisition Group, we
are a marketing and management company.
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What we do is basically we help
other companies market and sell
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their products and services.
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We help them increase
their revenue stream.
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So one of the unique ways we have
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discovered to do this is
direct-to-consumer, as you mentioned.
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So in this current era of technology where
everybody is focused on computers to sell
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and technology to sell their products.
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We want to maintain that human connection.
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We know that people, they
want to buy from people.
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People are a little bit fed up of calling
into a company answering AI voice a robot.
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want to hear from a real person.
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They want to have a personal touch
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into any conversation that they're
having with another person, especially
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from the person that they're buying.
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So we decided that this is our
core, like building relationships,
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maintaining the sense of empathy
maintaining that human connection.
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And the best way to do
this is direct to consumer.
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So we do not wait for customers
to come to us, to come to
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the store to buy the product
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or wait for the customers to go to our
website or call in to buy the product.
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Instead of waiting for them, we just
directly approach them and have that
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face-to-face conversation, face-to-face
connection, give them the opportunity to
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ask any questions that they might have
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And buy from us.
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I think we, we found that this
technique is proving itself to
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be a very efficient technique.
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Amaan Hussain: We can see the
increase in sales numbers and we
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can see how successful it is when we
implement it to our different clients.
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And they see the success and they
enjoy the revenue growth as well.
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Thomas Kunjappu: We know that
AI and technology can replace a
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lot of things, but then a human
still crave human connection.
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I think that's what you
were telling me this.
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So how do you preserve that in a world
where there's a lot of pressure for you
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and your clients, for those in HR and
just across all functions, to move towards
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automation, think about efficiency, right?
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It sounds way more efficient to find
clients to just maybe click on you,
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find your website, click a button,
and just buy on a credit card and just
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never have to talk to someone, right?
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There's a strange efficiency and
something attractive about that.
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But then what is your approach internally,
like within your organization, for
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how you all connect with each other
to maintain that human connection?
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Amaan Hussain: Yeah, absolutely.
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Our approach is we are very
strategic in our AI adoption, right?
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Where I know it's AI frenzy nowadays.
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Everybody is just going all in into AI.
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And we have nothing against AI.
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AI is, I think, one of
the most profound things
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I've seen in my life after internet.
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So it's going to do wonders.
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And we just want to be a bit more
strategic on how we apply AI.
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So within our company, our
core is human connection.
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Our core is to build relationship
with our clients, with our
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stakeholders and our customers.
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We are very hesitant on
replacing that with AI.
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So we do not want AI to connect
on our behalf to the other human
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beings because that's our core.
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And our focus is to look up some of
the administrative tasks, some of
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the redundant repetitive tasks, and
rather those can be replaced by AI
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and we can make it more efficient,
more productive that manner.
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But what our core is are going
to hold on for now on any sort
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of AI implementation on it.
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So we want to preserve that
human connection, empathy
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and the relationship building
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that the reputation that we
have formed, do not want to give
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that away at the moment to AI.
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Thomas Kunjappu: And while the hope
is that is the differentiator, right?
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So if that's the case, I know
that in an industry where you're
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selling sales almost, right?
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And that concept of doing sales in person
and through human human connection.
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So often, and you can tell us about
the talent that you're recruiting for,
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right?
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But I imagine there's a lot of
like early career, maybe even first
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job folks that make up the cadre,
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the ranks of your workforce.
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I imagine there's a big
recruiting challenge at play,
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right?
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To make sure that you're getting
the right people who then are
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able to hook into this culture.
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How do you not resist the massive
pull of just full automation to just
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go in and do recruiting for you?
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Or do you?
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How do you think about recruiting
in this world with this context?
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Amaan Hussain: Yeah, absolutely.
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It's not that easy in this changing
world, especially after COVID where
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the industry has totally changed.
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It's all work from home that
everybody is looking for
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now.
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And this direct-to-consumer, of
course, it's not only work from home,
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you have to come to office and then
you have to go and meet customers.
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So we do find it a bit challenging when
it comes to a lot of candidates looking
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for work-from-home opportunities.
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But the thing with the direct-to-consumer
role that we have, it's unique.
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It's very unique and you only
know when you try it out.
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So what we notice is we see candidates,
they give it a shot and they love it.
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They see that, oh, they have the autonomy.
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They go out, they get to
speak to different people.
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The amount of money they
can make is very good.
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The amount of growth, the growth
potential this position has is amazing.
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So there are a lot of factors that
makes this position unique, very unique,
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especially nowadays the market is getting
more and more saturated with technology.
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So one of the factors that make it unique
is that human touch that we talked about.
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And we want to show
this to the candidates.
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We want to make our candidates realize the
potential of it, how unique this position
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is, and how much more they can accomplish
by just focusing on this differentiating
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factor and being more successful.
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Our company, our mission
is to provide opportunity.
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It's written on our website.
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It's to provide opportunity.
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It's opportunity not only to our clients,
but also our team members as well.
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So we are a lot focused on
our team members' growth.
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So one of the other things that we
focus on while recruiting for this
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role is telling them how much we
care about their success and not only
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just saying it, showing it as well.
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We do have a structured growth program.
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Anybody who comes in with good
attitude is performing well.
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There's nothing stopping them to grow.
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We do not just promote based on seniority.
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We promote based on
attitude and performance.
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If someone is working with us past five
years and someone just joined us a month
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ago, if the new person is performing
well, they will get promoted first.
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So that's one of the things
that we maintain within our
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organization as our biggest value.
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But when it comes to the position
itself, it's a very different position.
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It has an element of surprise
on how much you can grow within
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this role and how different it
is when you are working on it.
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That's the only way to find out that
how different this position is and
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how unique this position is when you
join us and you start working with us.
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To answer your question,
it is challenging.
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It takes some of convincing.
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So we do have very talented recruitment
team, fully trained on how to give them
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the clear picture, show candidates a clear
picture of what the position is and how
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much of a potential it contains about the
growth and the money-making potential.
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And even though it's challenging, but
we are being very successful and we are
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one of the biggest in North America in
the direct-to-consumer space right now.
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Thomas Kunjappu: That success might
build some conviction, but let me do
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an argument of a different approach.
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And let's talk through exactly the
nuances of your feelings about what's
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differentiated here, specifically from
an HR recruiting process perspective.
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So what if I said, let's sell
the the opportunity, the unique
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possibilities with this role.
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Yes, it's hard with, it's not remote work.
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There's all these things you need to get
into it, but let's sell these candidates
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on this, but then let's do it with more
efficiently and scale it way up and
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take your recruiting team out of it.
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And the way that you're doing
one-on-one selling, creating human
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connection with candidates, and then
helping them realize the value of
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this potentially for their career.
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Instead of that, trying to scale it
up in a higher level without as much
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of this human touch with so many human
touches within the candidate experience.
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Maybe we can remove a bunch of those
steps and get it more efficiently there.
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And then once we realize who this role
is for, those are the people maybe we
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might put more of our efforts towards.
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And efficiency is all that matters and to
getting people to the end of that funnel.
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So someone might say that, well, and do
you agree with parts of that in your role?
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Or how do you think about the core
values around human connection that
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makes you agree or disagree with
parts of that type of analysis?
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Amaan Hussain: Yeah.
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So to what you're explaining me
is an ideal hybrid model, right?
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So we can preserve the human
connection as well as we become
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more efficient and more productive.
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So to establish this, what we are
focused on in some sort of, as I
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said before, we are very strategic
on our AI implementation, right?
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So we are seeking a perfect hybrid
model where we can preserve the
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human connection, whereas any other
task that can be made more efficient
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by technology, we're open to that.
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We have nothing against AI.
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AI, as I said, is the most profound thing.
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It's going to do wonders in future.
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So I'll give you some examples.
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We are using AI.
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A lot of AI is being used within our
team to research, which has made it
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a lot quicker, a lot more efficient.
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We use AI to write our communications,
our ad writing for jobs.
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Even though our calls that we make and
the conversations that we have with
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clients and customers and team members,
those are all recorded, of course and
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we take the consent as well but it's
later on analyzed by an AI coach and AI
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provides us with the feedback and how
how you can have a better conversation
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more convincing conversation how was your
tone how was the speed of your speech and
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your patience level?
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Are you over talking the other person?
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So it gives us the feedback that
we use to make our conversations
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more productive or more impactful.
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So we are using AI to become more
effective, more efficient, as well as
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trying to preserve the human connection
the human touch which is the core of
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our company we are looking for that
perfect hybrid model we are efficient
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and we do not want to be behind in
this AI race where everyone is becoming
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more productive and we are not we're
not stubborn about not adopting AI
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we are just being very careful on
not having it replace our core value.
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And you can say that we are an
Apple in the Silicon Valley.
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You probably have noticed Apple is usually
late to adopt some of the technologies.
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They let others experiment first.
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And if it's successful,
then they adopt it.
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They launch it their own way.
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So we are doing that as well
when it comes to AI adoption.
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Thomas Kunjappu: It seems like
you're holding two thoughts
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at the same time, right?
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You're very open to adoption
with the latest technology, but
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you're also thinking about when
to use it and when not to use it.
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So thank you for some of those examples
about how it has actually made its
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way into just the day-to-day of the
whole organization as well as HR.
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I'm curious if your ethos around the
human connection, has that led to any
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situations or do any decisions come
to mind where you looked at, evaluated
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using AI in some part, whether in
the HR function or broadly in the
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organization where you looked at it and
then you step back and said, no, this
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does not make sense because it actually
detracts from what we are really trying
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to accomplish as an organization.
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Amaan Hussain: Yeah, I have actually.
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In fact, yesterday I was having a
meeting with Salesforce and they were
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showcasing some of their AI products.
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But one example I can give you is one
demo I attended which was an AI voice.
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So that AI voice can call on your behalf
can receive and answer calls on your
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behalf so you are speaking to an AI which
sounds like a human but what I noticed
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is after speaking about 30 seconds to
that AI voice, I can figure it out.
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It's not a human.
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It's not there yet, to be honest.
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So, the empathy is missing.
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The human-to-human connection, the
level of understanding is missing.
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So, we have looked into some of the
stuff like that and decided to go
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against it at this point of time.
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So, decided not to adopt it because
the human connection, the level
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of empathy is not there yet.
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Thomas Kunjappu: Great example.
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And then let me counter back to
the example you mentioned about
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leveraging like voice call, recorded
voice calls to analyze how someone
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is doing and to help coach them.
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Now, coaching, usually it's in my
mind, it's very much associated with
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high empathy and highly understanding
particular nuances of a situation.
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But you're going ahead and doing
some coaching with data, right?
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and AI.
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How do you think if you had to
articulate, what is the nuance there?
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What's different there?
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Like a voice call where you're seeing,
okay, this is lacking empathy, but
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something like coaching, where it's trying
to up-level and up-skill your employee
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base, but that also needs empathy.
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And I'm sure there's limits to
what AI is really able to do there.
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What are the nuances?
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How do you see that being different?
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Amaan Hussain: Yeah, absolutely.
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So one is the execution of
the core work that we do.
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So we are being reluctant to get
that replaced by AI, but the other
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is just to augment what we are
doing, just make it a little better.
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So we are very, as I said, we are
very open where AI can help us
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improve the process, but not fully
replace the core work that we do.
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So I agree to the point where
AI is listening to the call
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and providing the coaching.
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Point where AI is listening to the
call and providing the coaching.
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So yes, the empathy, the human
touch is missing there, but still
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it's able to provide us with some
concrete feedback that we can use.
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It doesn't mean that we have totally
given it away to the AI to manage.
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We do listen to the
calls manually as well.
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We're not 100% relying on AI, but where
it took us a week to listen to 100
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calls before, now it takes us about
half of the time to listen to the 100
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calls where we listen to some and AI
is leveraged and give us some feedback.
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So the combination of both human and
AI is making us more efficient here.
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Thomas Kunjappu: So let's talk about just
recruiting and the generational shifts.
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It's clearly taking over in boardrooms
and leadership teams and HR teams
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are thinking about it and using it in
different parts of the workflow, including
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the recruiting like we're talking about.
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But then I wonder just generationally
if it's produced any differences.
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Kids growing up
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using smartphones obviously has an
impact eventually right into the
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workforce or the pandemic and how.
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high schools and colleges
shifted in that time.
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And now we have a new generation that
is becoming more AI native in the way
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that it's been a few years now, right?
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Since the big ChatGPT version that came
out, that became a bit of a revolution.
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I'm curious if you're seeing
anything, any trends, right?
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In recruiting from a generational
perspective, is anything shifting
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in mindset motivation for this
next generation that's coming in?
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Amaan Hussain: Yeah.
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I'm in this space of direct-to-consumer
recruitment for about 11 years now.
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So i've worked with a couple of different
generations and I can totally see how
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they are different from each other.
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So I've worked recruiting millennials,
I've worked recruiting baby boomers I've
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worked recruiting the new Gen Z as well.
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It's totally different.
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You have to have a different strategy
dealing with each of these generations.
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Even though if you're a manager, you're
managing a team, to manage a Gen Z takes a
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different leadership style versus managing
someone from a previous generation.
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So you have to be very mindful of that.
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The latest generation, is a
very well-informed generation.
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And as you mentioned, smartphones,
internet are some of the things
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that they have used growing up.
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Whereas the previous generation, when they
come to office, the work environment that
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they see, that's the standard for them.
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But the new generation
is very well informed.
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They know how best of the best
work environments look like.
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They are aware how Google
workspaces are like.
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And they are also aware how not some
of the best work environments are like.
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And they are very easy to compare.
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So where some may find some of these new
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generations a bit demanding but I would
say they're not demanding they are very
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well informed so they compare right?
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So if they're very quick to notice that
okay so other companies are offering
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this but we are not so they'll come
and they'll ask a question, right?
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So you need to be able to
adapt your leadership style.
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You need to be more aware that they
are aware and you have to keep up
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with the information that's out there.
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And make sure that your
work and your culture is up
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This has been a fantastic
conversation so far.
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00:21:51,889 --> 00:21:54,679
If you haven't already done so,
make sure to join our community.
349
00:21:54,919 --> 00:21:57,589
We are building a network of the
most forward-thinking, HR and
350
00:21:57,589 --> 00:22:00,769
people, operational professionals
who are defining the future.
351
00:22:01,249 --> 00:22:03,859
I will personally be sharing
news and ideas around how we
352
00:22:03,859 --> 00:22:05,869
can all thrive in the age of ai.
353
00:22:06,229 --> 00:22:09,214
You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary
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00:22:09,644 --> 00:22:10,254
community.
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00:22:10,879 --> 00:22:11,719
Now back to the show.
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Amaan Hussain: to speed.
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There's no room to be behind.
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There's no room that you are
slow to adopt any sort of change
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because everyone is very well informed
and they are going to ask questions.
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Where Gen Zs are a fun, focused generation
who is very well informed, but at the
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same time they want to be productive.
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They want to leverage all the
technology at the same time as well.
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So all I can say is Gen Z needs
a different management style.
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They can be as much productive as
some of our previous generations were.
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It's just unique to know
how to get that out of them.
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Thomas Kunjappu: So you said, I know that
I know that we're asking questions and
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seeing what's going on in the market.
368
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So a more educated marketplace.
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And if that's the case, doesn't
that make like your kind of work?
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And I feel like I wonder if this is
a generational thing even, right?
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Especially when you combine the
proliferation of technologies and
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combine it with the COVID pandemic era
where you have maybe almost a trained
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workforce generationally to be focused
on remote roles, digital work, and
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also honestly just be less connected.
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You get human connection through
likes on a social media application
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versus what we're talking about with
actual face-to-face connection and in
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sales work so does it feel like your
organization is having to do much
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more training like almost upstream
for from what you used to have to
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do because of just societal shifts,
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Amaan Hussain: So we have to
keep up with that as we know
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that Gen Zs are well-informed.
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They're quick to compare.
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They are very productive generations.
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So we have made some changes in our
work environment to cater them as well.
385
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So we do a lot of fun things.
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So our company culture
is work hard, play hard.
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So we take them to international trips.
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So we'll pick our top performers.
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We'll take them to Mexico.
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We'll pick our top performers.
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We'll take them to Vegas.
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We'll do team nights often.
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Like every other week, we're
doing team nights for them.
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We keep doing different bonuses, prizes.
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In my office, today is the date
of recording is 28 October so
396
00:24:42,625 --> 00:24:45,745
we are doing halloween potluck
everyone will come dressed up.
397
00:24:46,145 --> 00:24:50,065
So we have to make sure that we are
keeping up with all the fun elements we
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00:24:50,065 --> 00:24:56,785
are keeping up with anything that they
can experience within the company and
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00:24:56,785 --> 00:24:59,265
they can brag about it to their friends.
400
00:24:59,405 --> 00:25:04,185
So that's what some of the new
social media generation wants, right?
401
00:25:04,775 --> 00:25:06,335
That's the whole point of social media.
402
00:25:07,145 --> 00:25:09,935
We post about the fun things you're
doing so you can brag about it.
403
00:25:10,375 --> 00:25:13,435
So we want them to brag about their work.
404
00:25:13,535 --> 00:25:16,065
And that's how the word of mouth spreads.
405
00:25:16,075 --> 00:25:18,925
So we become a cool company
to work for as well.
406
00:25:19,015 --> 00:25:22,995
So it makes us more attractive to work
for, helps us with our recruiting,
407
00:25:23,005 --> 00:25:28,995
even though our position is not a
remote work that they're looking for.
408
00:25:29,015 --> 00:25:30,875
It's direct to consumer.
409
00:25:31,295 --> 00:25:35,075
But if you have that fun
element in this position.
410
00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:36,345
So why not?
411
00:25:36,875 --> 00:25:37,805
They would love to join us.
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Thomas Kunjappu: So you've cracked
the code somewhat, maybe, but then
413
00:25:41,890 --> 00:25:46,115
what would be your message to leaders
who say, hey, this new generation,
414
00:25:46,125 --> 00:25:48,925
they don't, they, it's not, they're
not built like the previous ones.
415
00:25:48,925 --> 00:25:49,705
They don't want to hustle.
416
00:25:49,705 --> 00:25:50,615
They're not productive.
417
00:25:51,145 --> 00:25:52,705
It's so much harder.
418
00:25:53,305 --> 00:25:55,755
It's something that's said
behind closed doors, I would say.
419
00:25:56,195 --> 00:25:57,175
Yeah, what do you say to that?
420
00:25:57,485 --> 00:26:02,125
Amaan Hussain: Yeah, my message
to them is they can hustle.
421
00:26:03,025 --> 00:26:04,095
They can work hard.
422
00:26:04,095 --> 00:26:05,105
They can be productive.
423
00:26:05,825 --> 00:26:08,775
You just need to know how
to get that out of them.
424
00:26:09,035 --> 00:26:14,995
You need to amend your leadership
style, your management style to
425
00:26:15,485 --> 00:26:17,345
get that productivity out of them.
426
00:26:17,375 --> 00:26:21,795
So you should not focus on changing them.
427
00:26:21,855 --> 00:26:25,625
You should just focus on how you
can amend some of your styles,
428
00:26:25,645 --> 00:26:27,145
some of the ways you do things.
429
00:26:28,365 --> 00:26:31,585
Focus on change to cater
to this new generation.
430
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:35,385
Change is something that we
should always be very mindful of.
431
00:26:36,015 --> 00:26:41,275
Changing too quickly can be not
so beneficial and changing quickly
432
00:26:41,285 --> 00:26:43,178
often is beneficial as well.
433
00:26:43,178 --> 00:26:45,695
So you have to be very strategic
when it comes to change.
434
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:50,230
So we have so many examples of
companies reluctant to change and
435
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:52,030
they are nowhere to be fine now.
436
00:26:53,015 --> 00:26:57,735
Yeah, so just focus on how we can better
cater to this new generation of what
437
00:26:57,735 --> 00:27:02,545
changes we need to make within our
organization, the culture, our leadership
438
00:27:02,545 --> 00:27:05,815
style, and we can get most productivity.
439
00:27:05,815 --> 00:27:09,915
They can be more productive as compared
to any of the previous generations.
440
00:27:09,925 --> 00:27:14,395
The combination of Gen Zs, their
mindsets, and the technology
441
00:27:14,395 --> 00:27:16,185
nowadays can be a killer combination.
442
00:27:16,855 --> 00:27:17,530
Thomas Kunjappu: Absolutely.
443
00:27:17,985 --> 00:27:20,575
There's opportunity if
you can it done right.
444
00:27:20,585 --> 00:27:24,785
So let's talk a little bit, Amaan,
about the, I guess, the guardrails.
445
00:27:24,835 --> 00:27:27,560
Guardrails around technology and AI.
446
00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:31,220
So we've talked a bunch about how
important it is to preserve human
447
00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:35,350
connection across the board in
the organization, in the sales
448
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:37,580
organization, in HR as well.
449
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:42,540
So if that's true, what guardrails
and rules do you have almost that
450
00:27:42,690 --> 00:27:45,080
help you make your decisions, right?
451
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,790
And different companies might have
different types of rules and guardrails,
452
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,910
but what are some of yours around
where you want to have evolution
453
00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:54,740
and change with technology and
454
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,900
AI versus ones that you want to preserve?
455
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:57,940
Amaan Hussain: Yeah.
456
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:04,390
So one of the most important guardrail we
have is anything that is our core value.
457
00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:09,630
Let that not be replaced
by any technology.
458
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:14,250
So that's the only rule that
we are focusing on as of now.
459
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:19,330
Not against the technology and AI.
460
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:30,530
We are very open to implement these, but
only the areas which are redundant, which
461
00:28:30,570 --> 00:28:32,990
are repetitive, which are administrative.
462
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,320
So you can have AI or technology
do it quicker in a better way,
463
00:28:38,490 --> 00:28:39,880
in a more effective way for us.
464
00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:46,180
But the only rule we follow whenever
someone presents any AI demo to me, is it
465
00:28:46,210 --> 00:28:49,630
replacing the core values that we have?
466
00:28:50,410 --> 00:28:52,020
Is it the core of our business?
467
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,570
If the answer is yes, we'll hold on.
468
00:28:54,965 --> 00:28:56,790
One of the examples I can give you
469
00:28:57,020 --> 00:28:59,450
So I talked about the AI voice.
470
00:28:59,660 --> 00:29:00,080
Thomas Kunjappu: Right.
471
00:29:00,670 --> 00:29:03,910
Amaan Hussain: If I implement
that replaces one of the core,
472
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,380
which is human connection,
which is building relationships.
473
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:09,970
So I would not do that.
474
00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:15,085
Rather, I would be open
to a AI chatbot, right?
475
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:21,720
After hours, when the HR team is off
after five o'clock, if someone has any
476
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:23,680
question, they can go to our website.
477
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:31,100
They can type a question and get
the immediate answer by a head bot.
478
00:29:31,330 --> 00:29:37,610
It's just augmenting our ability, but
not entirely replacing the core value.
479
00:29:37,620 --> 00:29:38,545
Great example.
480
00:29:39,045 --> 00:29:40,485
Yeah, there's only guardrail we have.
481
00:29:40,895 --> 00:29:41,175
Thomas Kunjappu: Okay.
482
00:29:41,225 --> 00:29:44,420
With that in mind, I would love to look
ahead into the future a little bit,
483
00:29:44,420 --> 00:29:47,750
actually from two angles, because I
think you're in an interesting field.
484
00:29:47,765 --> 00:29:50,800
The world of sales and marketing
has been shifting rapidly, right?
485
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,020
It's been with AI tools,
there's been a plethora of tools
486
00:29:55,050 --> 00:29:59,130
that are coming out there and
processes are shifting very fast.
487
00:29:59,590 --> 00:30:04,795
As you look ahead in the next couple of
years, how do you think that whole world,
488
00:30:04,845 --> 00:30:06,455
those whole functions are changing?
489
00:30:06,465 --> 00:30:11,275
And do you think your organization
will actually be quite different
490
00:30:11,335 --> 00:30:14,915
in terms of how the sales folks
are doing their day-to-day versus
491
00:30:14,915 --> 00:30:17,445
today because they're enabled by AI?
492
00:30:17,445 --> 00:30:21,375
Or how do you see that playing
out and also more broadly in in
493
00:30:21,375 --> 00:30:22,445
the sales and marketing world?
494
00:30:23,515 --> 00:30:28,855
Amaan Hussain: Yeah, I think with
time and improvement within AI
495
00:30:28,865 --> 00:30:30,705
structures and AI technology,
496
00:30:31,175 --> 00:30:36,025
everything is going to become
more and more time efficient,
497
00:30:36,085 --> 00:30:38,155
more and more productive with time.
498
00:30:38,265 --> 00:30:41,775
And this is not going
to happen all at once.
499
00:30:41,825 --> 00:30:44,495
Everything is going to happen in phases.
500
00:30:44,875 --> 00:30:47,305
You will see one aspect of the work being
501
00:30:47,425 --> 00:30:50,795
slowly replaced then followed
by another aspect then another.
502
00:30:50,935 --> 00:30:57,465
So five years from now if anything
takes us an hour to do it's going to
503
00:30:57,465 --> 00:31:02,705
take us 15 minutes to complete the same
task and in different areas of the work
504
00:31:02,715 --> 00:31:07,145
whether it's an administrative task,
whether it's research or communication,
505
00:31:07,145 --> 00:31:10,745
whatever it is, I think everything is
going to become more and more productive.
506
00:31:11,205 --> 00:31:16,775
There will be more opportunities
because if people are taking less time
507
00:31:16,775 --> 00:31:21,085
to do the same amount of work, then
there's going to be a vacuum created.
508
00:31:21,675 --> 00:31:25,845
And I think naturally everything
is going to be balanced out.
509
00:31:26,285 --> 00:31:29,525
That vacuum is going to be
filled by something else.
510
00:31:29,565 --> 00:31:34,845
I don't know what, but that means
this is going to that vacuum is
511
00:31:34,845 --> 00:31:38,415
going to be new opportunities
that will unveil itself with time.
512
00:31:39,235 --> 00:31:40,980
And things are going to change.
513
00:31:41,490 --> 00:31:48,250
The way you work, the way tasks are
executed is going to look a lot different.
514
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:54,540
But one thing I really want to see,
if you notice that what's different
515
00:31:54,540 --> 00:32:01,400
nowadays with smartphones and all
the technologies, there used to be
516
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,730
a mental state of boredom before.
517
00:32:03,860 --> 00:32:08,780
When I was a kid, I can think
of many times in my life that
518
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:10,540
I'm sitting and I'm bored.
519
00:32:10,770 --> 00:32:15,630
Even though I'm a kid, I'm sitting
at the wall, I'm sitting on my patio,
520
00:32:15,630 --> 00:32:16,470
I'm bored.
521
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,560
This is something I don't observe now.
522
00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:21,050
No one is bored.
523
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:25,030
This mental state of being
bored has been vanished.
524
00:32:25,090 --> 00:32:29,040
Whenever you have nothing to do,
you take out your cell phone.
525
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,160
You start looking at your cell phone.
526
00:32:31,570 --> 00:32:34,580
When you're bored, when your
brain is not doing anything, then
527
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:35,860
you're thinking about things.
528
00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:36,950
You're observing things.
529
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:39,280
You're coming up with
new ideas, new thoughts.
530
00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:40,840
But that is missing.
531
00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:45,710
So I hope with AI, people
have enough time to get bored.
532
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,020
Start thinking again.
533
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,500
So start thinking about new ideas
again, and we see more innovation.
534
00:32:53,150 --> 00:32:58,530
So I believe if you notice the
innovation that we have seen in 1960s,
535
00:32:58,610 --> 00:33:04,860
70s, 80s, and even 90s, the rate of
innovation has declined ever since the
536
00:33:04,860 --> 00:33:07,210
emergence of cell phones, smartphones.
537
00:33:07,210 --> 00:33:12,315
We keep complaining about lack of
innovation in smartphones itself, but the
538
00:33:12,315 --> 00:33:20,015
only biggest innovation I've seen after
2007 and after internet is AI, which
539
00:33:20,015 --> 00:33:22,635
is just happening now after 25 years.
540
00:33:23,515 --> 00:33:29,555
So I hope that with AI make things
that productive, that efficient, less
541
00:33:29,555 --> 00:33:34,875
time consuming, that people have some
time to think about other things, to be
542
00:33:34,875 --> 00:33:36,935
more creative, to be more innovative.
543
00:33:38,205 --> 00:33:41,455
Thomas Kunjappu: Yeah, it's a
little bit of a paradox there
544
00:33:41,465 --> 00:33:43,430
because even with the advent of
545
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:50,030
smartphones, you can be a monk who
lives outside of society or lives
546
00:33:50,050 --> 00:33:54,140
in Walden Pond, like Henry David
Thoreau, away from society, just to
547
00:33:54,530 --> 00:33:58,670
give yourself time to be bored and to
focus and think about what you want
548
00:33:58,670 --> 00:34:01,160
to do in a very considered manner.
549
00:34:01,620 --> 00:34:02,190
But on
550
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,630
the other hand, the promise of
every new wave of technology
551
00:34:07,650 --> 00:34:09,080
is to give you time back.
552
00:34:09,870 --> 00:34:15,409
But the paradox is that it might
suck up all your time chasing the
553
00:34:15,460 --> 00:34:19,770
efficiencies, figuring it out, and then
thinking about what else you can do.
554
00:34:20,170 --> 00:34:22,670
So you mentioned that vacuum
that it creates, right?
555
00:34:22,670 --> 00:34:26,835
So I think that's theoretically, you
can do the same things more efficiently,
556
00:34:26,995 --> 00:34:30,495
but then there's two paths that
whether we're talking about a sales
557
00:34:30,495 --> 00:34:35,125
org, a person in their leisure with
their time or someone in HR, right?
558
00:34:35,304 --> 00:34:35,824
There's two paths.
559
00:34:35,975 --> 00:34:41,790
You can take that extra time and do more
and run ever faster on the treadmill of
560
00:34:41,824 --> 00:34:45,445
the particular treadmill that you're on,
or you could step off and be bored and
561
00:34:45,445 --> 00:34:47,385
reflect and live life in a different way.
562
00:34:47,815 --> 00:34:53,255
And that's such is the paradox that often
you just go faster on the treadmill.
563
00:34:53,475 --> 00:34:55,264
So it's an interesting point you bring up.
564
00:34:55,590 --> 00:35:00,950
But also, I would think this will
that desire to be bored or maybe
565
00:35:00,980 --> 00:35:02,790
you can mix it also with the desire.
566
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:06,350
For human connection may actually make,
especially in the sales and marketing
567
00:35:06,350 --> 00:35:09,830
world, the value proposition that you
provide to be even more compelling.
568
00:35:09,830 --> 00:35:16,235
So in a pure metrics perspective,
human-to-human selling might actually
569
00:35:16,345 --> 00:35:18,355
grow as a percentage of the pie, right?
570
00:35:18,355 --> 00:35:23,005
As it has been shrinking for some
time with the advent of so much more
571
00:35:23,005 --> 00:35:25,115
efficiency, but that is to be seen.
572
00:35:25,625 --> 00:35:29,925
Let me ask you the same question while we
close out about the HR function itself.
573
00:35:30,365 --> 00:35:35,285
So if you're projecting ahead in a similar
way, thinking about specifically how
574
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:39,395
all aspects of HR is done.
575
00:35:40,965 --> 00:35:44,885
What does an HR team look like in
a few years from now and what are
576
00:35:44,885 --> 00:35:50,295
they doing day to day within the
concept of an AI-enabled world?
577
00:35:50,995 --> 00:35:52,885
Amaan Hussain: Yeah, it's a good question.
578
00:35:52,985 --> 00:36:00,045
With AI revolution, implementation of AI,
I see HR team doing more in less time.
579
00:36:00,925 --> 00:36:06,925
Now, this is the question that HR
leaders should think about, the extra
580
00:36:06,925 --> 00:36:09,725
time that everyone gets in future.
581
00:36:09,905 --> 00:36:12,195
How to best utilize that time, right?
582
00:36:13,005 --> 00:36:16,095
AI going to enable us
to do things quicker.
583
00:36:16,105 --> 00:36:20,135
Of course, the first thing comes
to everyone's mind is, okay,
584
00:36:20,135 --> 00:36:21,665
our jobs are being replaced.
585
00:36:22,295 --> 00:36:26,495
When you need five team members,
now you need just three team
586
00:36:26,505 --> 00:36:27,865
members to do the same job.
587
00:36:28,735 --> 00:36:35,805
But what we need to figure out here is
how can we create some more opportunities
588
00:36:36,025 --> 00:36:41,605
so that overall, in a bigger picture,
as a company, you are doing more with
589
00:36:41,705 --> 00:36:45,995
the same amount of people instead of
doing the same amount with less people.
590
00:36:46,665 --> 00:36:56,095
So if you're producing 10 in a month with
five resources, so focus on producing 20
591
00:36:59,525 --> 00:37:01,485
with five resources instead of
producing 10 with three resources.
592
00:37:01,795 --> 00:37:06,415
So each technology is going to give
us more time back in our hands.
593
00:37:06,855 --> 00:37:07,625
We have to figure
594
00:37:07,665 --> 00:37:10,215
out the best way to
best utilize that time.
595
00:37:11,165 --> 00:37:11,905
Thomas Kunjappu: So what do you think?
596
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:12,685
You're in the field.
597
00:37:12,695 --> 00:37:14,455
What do you think that can look like?
598
00:37:14,705 --> 00:37:15,245
What is the 10 to 20?
599
00:37:15,245 --> 00:37:15,845
So what are
600
00:37:19,285 --> 00:37:20,675
the types of value
601
00:37:21,215 --> 00:37:23,925
that is going to be demanded
more from the function
602
00:37:23,935 --> 00:37:25,775
that you feel like we should
be leaning in towards?
603
00:37:25,785 --> 00:37:29,635
Or maybe there's new
things that it's 11 to 20
604
00:37:29,655 --> 00:37:31,085
looks very different than one to 10.
605
00:37:31,095 --> 00:37:36,685
But do you have any thoughts as
we're, I don't know, a few years,
606
00:37:36,685 --> 00:37:40,475
months, quarters into the revolution,
any initial thoughts if you're
607
00:37:40,475 --> 00:37:41,915
painting the way towards the future?
608
00:37:42,745 --> 00:37:46,275
Amaan Hussain: So I can
speak for my company.
609
00:37:46,365 --> 00:37:49,855
What we will be focusing
on is increasing our scope.
610
00:37:50,505 --> 00:37:57,885
So with 600 team members, we are
focusing on telecom industry.
611
00:37:57,935 --> 00:38:01,925
So most of our clients are telecom
clients, even though we do have some
612
00:38:01,965 --> 00:38:07,505
other clients, but the ratio is quite
less, quite smaller as compared to the
613
00:38:07,505 --> 00:38:09,185
other clients and the other industries.
614
00:38:10,205 --> 00:38:15,875
So if I take my company's example, we
would need to increase our scope to
615
00:38:15,875 --> 00:38:20,145
cater more industries, more clients,
rather than just focusing on one thing.
616
00:38:20,145 --> 00:38:21,305
So other companies
617
00:38:21,635 --> 00:38:24,825
should be coming up with
more products, right?
618
00:38:25,165 --> 00:38:31,425
So if someone is producing smartphones
they should start producing
619
00:38:31,605 --> 00:38:32,915
cars at the same time right.
620
00:38:33,075 --> 00:38:37,745
So it's all about scope so you
need to use that time to increase
621
00:38:38,005 --> 00:38:41,405
the scope of the products in the
industry that you're dealing with.
622
00:38:41,715 --> 00:38:49,375
That's the best, I believe diving into
a new area with the same amount of
623
00:38:49,375 --> 00:38:53,955
resources would open a new box for you.
624
00:38:54,045 --> 00:38:55,685
It's like a blue ocean strategy.
625
00:38:55,685 --> 00:39:00,155
So you're creating a new product
and using your extra resources
626
00:39:00,185 --> 00:39:02,915
to work on that and less
627
00:39:02,915 --> 00:39:06,875
amount of resources to continue to
work on what you have been doing.
628
00:39:07,325 --> 00:39:07,643
On what you have been doing.
629
00:39:07,725 --> 00:39:13,280
So if I see for my company, we're
going to focus on increasing
630
00:39:13,290 --> 00:39:17,430
our scope by leveraging AI using
the same amount of resources.
631
00:39:18,090 --> 00:39:20,250
Thomas Kunjappu: I love that example.
632
00:39:20,250 --> 00:39:22,960
And specifically in HR, one thing
you're already starting to do that a
633
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,600
little bit is like coaching, right?
634
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,830
Executive coaching is something that
is expensive and only for a few people.
635
00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:34,340
And it's one-to-one and doesn't really
scale to an entire organization.
636
00:39:34,650 --> 00:39:37,650
And now with some technology, you're
actually increasing the scope of what
637
00:39:37,650 --> 00:39:42,800
you're able to do by providing coaching
through technology to hundreds of
638
00:39:42,810 --> 00:39:47,640
people in a way that is up-leveling them
hopefully faster than you otherwise would.
639
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:50,730
And I think there's probably so many
other examples like that, right?
640
00:39:50,730 --> 00:39:56,070
For where the HR function can take on
all the bottlenecks that you, if you
641
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:01,650
had more time that you could produce
more services or programs or outcomes,
642
00:40:02,020 --> 00:40:03,840
those things can be accelerated.
643
00:40:03,915 --> 00:40:05,115
Amaan Hussain: Yeah, absolutely.
644
00:40:05,115 --> 00:40:07,525
And just to give my company's example,
645
00:40:07,525 --> 00:40:15,015
if we were focused on direct-to-consumer
and consumer channel, now we have
646
00:40:15,015 --> 00:40:17,215
expanded to United States as well.
647
00:40:17,245 --> 00:40:22,825
So we are not only limited to clients
in Canada, we have Verizon in United
648
00:40:22,825 --> 00:40:27,615
States as our client and Verizon in
the space of business-to-business.
649
00:40:27,925 --> 00:40:30,485
So that's something new for us.
650
00:40:30,855 --> 00:40:35,155
We have done this business here in Canada
before as well, but we have expanded and
651
00:40:35,155 --> 00:40:37,895
increased our scope in terms of region.
652
00:40:38,195 --> 00:40:42,425
Instead of focusing in Canada only,
we are now in United States as well.
653
00:40:42,455 --> 00:40:47,155
So we are going to continue to increase
our scope by leveraging technology and
654
00:40:47,385 --> 00:40:49,145
that's how we become more efficient.
655
00:40:49,865 --> 00:40:50,815
Thomas Kunjappu: I love that.
656
00:40:50,885 --> 00:40:52,520
Thank you for this conversation, Amon.
657
00:40:52,555 --> 00:40:58,005
I know that you have a very unique
organization that you're representing
658
00:40:58,005 --> 00:41:02,615
where the human connection is
so central to what most of the
659
00:41:02,615 --> 00:41:05,545
org is doing day-to-day and what
people are getting trained on.
660
00:41:05,575 --> 00:41:10,435
And it's also such a unique role to
recruit and retain talent for because
661
00:41:10,775 --> 00:41:12,640
it is certainly not getting easier.
662
00:41:12,690 --> 00:41:13,910
Let's put it at least that way, right?
663
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:18,070
With all the generations that are
changing and the shifts upstream
664
00:41:18,070 --> 00:41:19,400
from the labor market, right?
665
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,750
In terms of how people's habits
with how they engage with
666
00:41:22,750 --> 00:41:24,130
each other and technology.
667
00:41:24,505 --> 00:41:29,790
And because of that unique perch of, and
the differentiated position in the market
668
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,713
for what you sell, you're for force.
669
00:41:31,713 --> 00:41:35,310
And HR functions, you're always,
you're reflecting the values of the
670
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,540
organization, how you will do the
work in your organization as well.
671
00:41:38,540 --> 00:41:41,060
So I thought there's some great
examples about things that you could
672
00:41:41,060 --> 00:41:43,650
be doing on the recruiting side, right?
673
00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:48,210
But you're specifically saying no to
because it clashes with your values.
674
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:54,100
And I think I would suggest that
it's valuable for every organization
675
00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:57,370
to clarify what actually matters to
them from that values perspective and
676
00:41:57,370 --> 00:42:00,800
how they differentiate in the market
as clairvoyantly as you're doing,
677
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,500
because then it helps streamline
all your downstream decisions,
678
00:42:04,570 --> 00:42:08,900
right, of any particular technology
or what not to do, what to do.
679
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:11,190
Thank you for this conversation.
680
00:42:11,570 --> 00:42:17,760
And for all the listeners out there who
are looking to future-proof your own
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00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:24,670
organizations and your own HR functions, I
hope you took some nuggets of insight from
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00:42:24,670 --> 00:42:27,150
this conversation here with Amaan Hussain.
683
00:42:27,450 --> 00:42:28,360
I certainly did.
684
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:32,630
And good luck as you future-proof HR.
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00:42:33,730 --> 00:42:34,730
See you on the next one.
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00:42:35,050 --> 00:42:35,540
Bye now.
687
00:42:38,227 --> 00:42:41,287
Thanks for joining us on this
episode of Future Proof HR.
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00:42:41,527 --> 00:42:44,137
If you like the discussion, make
sure you leave us a five star
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00:42:44,137 --> 00:42:47,017
review on the platform you're
listening to or watching us on.
690
00:42:47,437 --> 00:42:50,377
Or share this with a friend or colleague
who may find value in the message.
691
00:42:50,677 --> 00:42:55,627
See you next time as we keep our pulse on
how we can all thrive in the age on AI.
