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Episode Description

In this episode of AgTech Digest, we dive deep into the evolving landscape of food security and agricultural innovation in the Gulf region. Our guest, Giovanni Angiolini—entrepreneur, consultant, and representative of Dutch Greenhouse Delta—offers a firsthand look at the strategic shifts taking place as regional instability reshapes priorities.

Giovanni shares how recent disruptions and conflict have thrust food security back onto national agendas, sparking changes in supply chains, market dynamics, and local production. He discusses the balance between short-term crisis management and long-term resilience, the dilemma of premium versus affordable local produce, and the role of regulatory reform.

With insights drawn from the Netherlands’ rapid rise as an agricultural powerhouse, the conversation explores practical actions for the UAE and the wider GCC: investing in infrastructure, fostering regional and international collaboration, and supporting innovation from farm to fork.

Whether you’re curious about cold chain logistics, sustainability, or how policy shapes the future of AgTech, this episode is packed with real-world perspectives on building a resilient, self-sufficient food system for the Middle East—no matter the challenge.

Tune in for thoughtful analysis, candid observations, and a look at what it really takes to keep the shelves (and tables) full in uncertain times.

5 Key Takeaways

Food security and resilient agtech ecosystems are more urgent than ever—turn insight into action with these steps:

1. Prioritize strategic investment in circular and sustainable food systems, leveraging proven models like the Dutch "Greenport" approach for local climate conditions.
2. Implement support mechanisms for local growers—including grants, favorable energy rates, and fair taxation on imports—to make locally-grown produce more competitive and viable.
3. Foster robust multi-level collaboration: strengthen regional GCC food security plans, while building localized strategies tailored to each country’s unique needs.
4. Enhance food supply chain resilience—from water and energy infrastructure to cold storage and logistics—focusing on both farm-to-fork and fork-to-farm approaches.
5. Raise awareness and shift mindsets: champion marketing campaigns for local produce, invest in agri-education for youth, and incentivize innovation at all levels of the value chain.

Act now—demand action from your leaders, support local initiatives, and spread the word about resilient agtech solutions.

Memorable Quotes

"See food security as a solution to defend a country and work on resilience—don’t see it as a profit-making industry, because it will not be the case for six to eight years before you get such an industry profitable."

“Start taxing foreign produce. It will not make it easy for the local consumer, because in the end they are the ones who pay for it, but it will help local farms to survive.”

“Investment in agriculture is not a profit-making investment, it is a necessity. It's a resilience investment.”

Connect with Giovanni

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/giodxb/

Resources Mentioned

Dutch Greenhouse Delta - https://dutchgreenhousedelta.com/

Fresh Food Cast (podcast) - https://freshfoodcast.podbean.com/

ADNOC (Abu Dhabi National Oil Company) - https://www.adnoc.ae/

Emirates Development Bank - https://www.edb.gov.ae/

Invest International - https://www.investinternational.nl/

Mokai Food Tech Challenge (UAE Food Tech Challenge) - https://www.foodtechchallenge.com/

Circa Biotech - https://circabiotech.com/

BEEAH Group (Sharjah) - https://www.beeahgroup.com/

NEMA (UAE food sustainability entity) - https://www.nema.eco/

Connect with Us!

Be sure go subscribe to our other shows:

Vertical Farming Podcast: https://verticalfarmingpodcast.com/

Greenhouse Success Stories: https://greenhousesuccess.com/

Presented by iGrowNews.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/igrownews

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I know it's not a favorite topic to talk about, but start taxing

foreign produce and yeah, it will not make it easy for the local

consumer. Let that be effect as well because in the end they are the one

who pay for it. But on the other hand, it will help local

farms to survive.

Obviously we know each other. We recently did a little

interview. But just for the people that don't know you, can you give

a brief introduction of who you are, your role at Dutch

Greenhouse Delta? Yeah, sure. The name Giovanni

Angiolini, despite the Italian name. I'm a half Dutch, half Italian and

you may hear that from the accent. So I'm an entrepreneur living

and working in Dubai since 2004.

Since 2016, I'm running my own consultancy agency called Tirapital.

And with that company we basically help European

industries companies and entities to

position themselves here in the Middle east and Northern Africa.

Due to that work, the Dutch Ministry of Foreign affairs

approached me in 2019 with the question if I can help them

positioning Dutch horticultural companies. Here in the Middle east there's a strong

desire for self sufficiency and food security, et cetera. And

Dutch are able to sell that kind of technology. I was awarded with that

amazing job. I have to be frank, I didn't know anything about

horticulture or agriculture in general by then. I mean, I used to pick

cucumbers in a greenhouse when I was a very young boy. But other than that

I didn't have really the relevant experience. But throughout the

time I was lucky enough to learn a lot. I think Covid helped

us as well because due to Covid, food security was prioritized on the national

agendas here in the region. And that helped me also to

define a clear strategy on how to position Dutch companies here in the

region. And this is how I have been hired by a sector

representative called Dutch Greenhouse Delta. They represent 50

leading agtech companies from the Netherlands. And through that particular

role, I work in the region now for I

think four to five years representing these companies that

are really seriously focusing on sharing their technology and knowledge to, to

this region. Three days a week. And other than that, I'm still working with my

own company. Yeah. Okay, fantastic. And so

everyone is aware now there is a lot going on for the past month

over years. Yes, quite challenging.

Yeah. Can you describe how

things evolved over the past month? I mean, we know that there's this ongoing

conflict. We know also that before that

there was this, I wouldn't say, well, yeah, maybe

a slowdown in the food security objectives at

Least like some of the investments that were made

and some of the intentions where we thought that food

security was no more an issue here at least. And all

of a sudden this war broke up and food security is on the table now.

Yeah. So have you seen a big shift as well in people that you

talk with? Yes and no. I mean, indeed, when we did our

last interview, we were both agreeing on the fact like, yeah,

food security seems to be lesser prioritized than before.

We saw even in countries like Saudi Arabia big shifts, you know, from food security

to high tech digitalization and AI of various sectors,

so money being pulled away. Even when it came to

local food production, there were more investments in cheaper

solutions or solutions that may be

increasing the number of months producing locally from let's

say five to seven, eight months, but

still not year full rounds. And now due to the

situation and the fact that there are regular attacks on the gold

states, food security really became an issue again. We noticed that

with regards to the imports, I mean, there's a big restriction on

importing food products or some of them are still out there at sea.

So we have to choose for alternative entry points. We see

some shift through Saudi Arabia like the port of Jeddah or even

Amman in Jordan for other parts of the Gulf region.

So yeah, we see big shifts when it comes to entry points for food

logistics. When it comes to fresh perishables, there is still some

supply thanks to the efforts of airlines like Emirates and

Etihad that keep on flying and even use their cargo flights and for local

production. Yeah, it seems that, that there is quite some pressure. However,

when I'm going to the supermarkets, I don't see empty shelves yet.

Maybe less of variety in particular products like dairy,

poultry and these kind of things. But other than that, the supermarkets are still

quite full. We see some slight price

increases like tomatoes, onions, some other products as well, which

is understandable. I don't think everybody makes a big effort issue

about it. I mean, and of course there are some regular checks as well on

behalf of the governments here in the uae. I can't talk

on behalf of the other countries, but listening also to colleagues around us

in other countries, there is still not a food security

issue. Having said, when speaking to

some growers of high tech facilities here in the Middle east,

they basically tell me like, yeah, well, we keep on producing and there is

enough, et cetera, but our premium market is no

longer there. And I was surprised by that comment. And it

seems like the premium consumer is not really here in the

UE and that Makes sense because there are no tourists here. So the hospitality industry

is facing quite some challenges and they are seen as a

premium customer for big producing companies.

So now the focus will be mainly on the residents here in the UAE through

retail outlets. I don't know whether this is also a

lesson learned for the local authorities to focus again

more on food security and self

sufficiency, but there has to be a strategy for sure. And how

you want to define that strategy and if we can help as being Dutch

technology providers as well from other countries, that is still a question. I,

I, I think it's too short to answer that particular question. Yeah,

yeah. I'm curious because just a couple years ago we

were talking again about the same supply chain disruptions.

Yeah, Covid. So how does

the current situation compare to the pandemic era?

And do you think that there was any lessons learned from that era that

right now we're seeing some of the benefits, such as the shelf not being empty

or like this constant flow of produce into the uae?

I think some very important food

security deals have been made throughout the last couple of years.

So these deals were not there when Covid hit

the world. So thanks to these

deals, there is still trade. You know, it's not

that we have a shortage of food at the moment, it's just like we have

a disruption in the supply chain. So in that case, countries like

India, where there was an amazing deal with or even, yeah, in

the close surrounding areas like Jordan and Egypt, you know, I mean, they

can still supply. The question is how and how would it affect the

value chain in general and even from countries far ahead,

I mean, there is supply again, the disruption is

making it worse. And you see now that the exporters,

freight companies, logistics companies and so on, they're really doing their utmost best

to find proper solutions for it. On the other hand, we

also saw in the last couple of years quite some investments from the Gulf

States into other countries when it comes to farming. And okay, we

also heard stories that some farms have been sold again, but

there's still a lot of investment from Gulf States into other countries when

it comes to agricultural purposes. So

lesson learned. Yes, in that way, absolutely. But does

it help now with the disruption? No.

So yes, I think there still needs to be a clear focus on what to

do with the local food production, food supply, and how we can also help these

farmers to make a beneficial system

out of it. Because that was also the reason why a lot of farmers were

hesitating. Should we invest in modern technology

to make us able to grow year round. Yes or no?

Because their crops still ended up very expensive in compared to other

imported products from neighboring countries. Maybe it will help

a bit since I understand, I don't know if it's 100% sure. Maybe

you know more about it than I do that there is now an import

blockage from countries like Iran. So that

may help, you know, to, to increase the price a little bit. But how

will the consumer react to that? That's another question. Is the consumer

willing to still pay for more

premium products because it has been grown locally through different

circumstances? And don't forget there's another thing that, that worries also

farmers in this region, which is the, the energy and water

supply. I mean there are quite some threats lately

on maybe potential attacks on energy and water supplies.

Yeah. If that happens, then the local farmer can't even produce properly.

So yeah, there's a lot going on and I think we can all

pray for a quick end basically in a positive way.

Yeah. We're still in the good months of the year in terms of

weather and also right now there's a lot of rain. So that's

pretty good. Yes. Do we store that water?

I mean, now it would be the ideal moment to really store a lot of

water. Basically. You know, in our country in Holland, a lot of private

households, they have a real rain tank in their

garden. You know, they catch the water. Yeah, but that's true. Like

if, if the conflict would last even like

an extra month or two months, then we're going to start to flirt with the

hot weather, the 40 degrees and the 50

degrees and so on. And then for a lot of these farms, it's just not

profitable to grow. Oftentimes they just close down their

greenhouses. Yeah. And if you have limitations on your

energy usage, then even the modern greenhouses, the high

tech greenhouses, will face issues because they have to cool down their

facilities heavily. Of course. Yeah. An

additional advice or suggestion would be that

when you start focusing on more self sufficiency in the future

again, then also implement the alternatives when it comes

to energy, you know, like solar or, or

any other form of, let's say clean energy. Yeah, absolutely. And

again, I mean, I wouldn't, I would think that if

we go to this catastrophic situation where there's restrictions

in terms of energy usage or water usage, then I

would suggest, I would think that they would perhaps prioritize

food production because it's kind of like national security as well.

Yeah. And prioritize

nutrition, food production. I would even say, you know, it's always healthier

to have a nutrition product at the table than a food

processed, I don't know, kind of product.

Yeah. The question will also be who will be responsible for

the execution of such a policy. Would it be

like we see in other countries around the world, Will it be a Ministry of

Defense, for example, that takes that role in the future, or will it be still

what we have here in the uae, the Ministry of Climate Change and

Environment? Yeah. This is what we were talking about in our previous

conversation of I think like

greenhouses as a plan B as well in case there is any

supply chain disruption. Yeah. Or maybe vertical farming again.

You never know. Yeah. It's a

strange world. And what's happening is almost contrary to

what we discussed like one and a half months ago prior to this, to this

event. Yeah, yeah, it goes fast. Yes,

but, but yeah, I mean you talked about like how the fact that

local production had often like a premium in terms of

pricing over imported alternatives. And

over the last years of attending events, everyone talks about food security

and food security, but if it's not affordable and no one can

afford the food, even if it's locally produced, then I don't think that you have

a food secure country. If we want like

local greenhouses to serve as a genuine food

security buffer or even alternative

accessible to everyone. What do you think needs to change

in terms of

regulation? First of all, because talking to growers, I understand that

there's a lot of regulatory barriers that they're

facing, but also in terms of maybe the

mentality of some of these growers that don't

necessarily think about massive production and

also as a whole as the complete value chain,

what do you think needs to change?

Yeah. Sometimes horrible events need to happen before changing

mindsets. Right. And it's very unfortunate. What needs to

happen is when the situation calms down.

And I was really hoping for the last week, we are now almost the end

of March and we had quite a relative quiet week, a calm week.

Unfortunately. This morning, the day of the recording,

we got an alert again and we heard some interceptions. But

I hope that this situation woke up some people that

carry these responsibilities, whether they're from governmental level, whether

it comes from the producing level, but even from the offtake markets.

Because even, let's say the big supermarkets will realize right now, like,

ooh, we were quite dependent still from foreign

countries importing or exporting the product to the uae, to other

Gulf states. And if we want to even remain

existent, we may need to close more deals with local

suppliers. So I hope that this

situation will now bring a new effect in the

execution of a proper food security policy. And you say it correctly as well,

maybe the focus should not be on premium products, but it should be on

products in general that are nutritious enough to feed

the citizens of these countries in a decent way

and in a healthy way. Because that's also quite important if you ask me.

I think that will happen for sure. I

think there will be a stronger defense mechanism. You will see

also toward its energy and water supply in the region. I mean it's

a very vulnerable. I mean you can't grow without water and

in some cases, especially here in the region, you can't even grow without energy.

And we need proper storage, also facilities to keep your products fresh

and with a long shelf life. So yeah, I hope that

all these things will wake up some people like, okay, we were still

not there. We had some good ambitions and some people really tried.

Nothing negative towards anyone who worked on this particular topic or industry,

but it should be better. And as the Netherlands, we are

definitely ready to help to contribute. And I know that with us

also some other countries that have similar kind of knowledge or technology available.

I think it should be more closer collaboration on an international level.

And finally, please disregard comments

from some of the pharmacy locally like we don't need foreign interference

because we do if you ask me. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I

mean, yeah, I mean when we look back, back in the

pandemic again, I'm going to come back to this period because it was the most,

it's the most relevant example for what we're experiencing right now.

There were still the same comments about like, yeah,

retailers saying like they wanted to actually invest and so

on. Yet fast forward five years ago, I

don't even think that they moved the needle that much compared to five

years. So what do you, what what also needs to

change so that in five years say we're still not at

this, this situation where we're still vulnerable

even though we had experienced a pandemic and then a war.

Yeah, well, I mean one of the things I really applaud

here is the strong focus on transport and logistics. Right.

I mean even prior to the current events and tensions,

we saw the launch of the 80 hot rail, you know, and the

ideas also to not only connect Abu Dhabi with Dubai, for example,

but also all the way to the port of Sohar in Oman with

regards to oil supply. For years already there was

a good connection between Abu Dhabi and Fujita, for example. So

you tackle the logistical challenges of the port of Homos

in that way. So I would say focus on a

better collaborative network between all

sides of this Arabian Peninsula, whether it's the Arabian

Gulf, whether it's the Gulf of Oman, whether it's the Red Sea.

Make sure that these logistical connections

will be there, remain there, have some good agreements between all

involved countries and stakeholders when it comes to import

of products, including foods and export. Of course,

for the retailers, however. Yeah, focus on circular

and preferably sustainable systems that are built locally. I mean

we have for example in the Netherlands a model we call green ports,

main ports where we take

CO2 from particular refineries, use it in the greenhouses. You

know, we also work on water management, for example, with data centers. We

use the heat of the data centers, we store it and that can be used

for, in the Netherlands, heating, but even here it can be used for cooling purposes.

So there are all circular systems available. They're already out there.

So we don't need to reinvent the wheel, by the way. Maybe we need to

adapt it more to the climate zones here and to the region. But it is

available. So focus on these kind of circular

systems in the future to avoid

these kind of disruptions. Again, that's one.

And make sure that everybody support that idea. So from farm to

fork everyone in the value chain and

otherwise make it a regulatory decision on behalf of the

government. But of course I don't work for the government so I can't say how

they have to implement their policies. And last but not

least, like I just said as an answer in your

previous question, make sure that you work together with your

partners on international level. I mean we may be

now the country with the right technology for year round produce. There are other

countries that have the technology with regards to water or with regards to energy

or even with regards to defense in general,

because you also need to defend such systems. So make sure that

they don't get attacked in, in, in any future. Yeah,

issues. Yeah, I think the word resilience is very important here.

We need to make this country way more resilient also when it comes to food

security. Yeah. Does that answer your question? Oh yeah, of course.

So what are some of the examples? I mean, we're going to talk a little

bit about regulatory, the regulatory aspect because

again, it's one of the things that can perhaps move the needle.

What are the things, for instance in the Netherlands that you guys do

that maybe the UAE may look at? I'm not saying that they should copy

and paste, obviously. No, of course not. There are two different climate zones as well.

Although we do have the technology that is basically applicable everywhere in the

world where there's a climate. The Netherlands is a perfect

example. I mean it's not a big country. Not at all.

There's not a lot of arable land as well. True, we

have a big mouth. Yes, yes. Yet

you produce. I mean you're in the top three producers in Europe and maybe in

the world. And some of these fresh produce and some of the largest

companies, actech companies as well are from the Netherlands. So

what do you think the UAE could at least

look into that would be beneficial for them?

Yeah, I think that that aligns a bit with what

we discussed in our previous interview earlier this year.

Separate. See food security as a

needing solution to defend a country. To

work on the definition, resilience. Don't

see it as a profit making industry because it will not be the

case for six to eight years before you get

such an industry profitable. And that is maybe a change I

would like to mention in this

conversation that maybe the local authorities have to look at.

It's not an industry where you can have an ROI within the next

one, two, three, even five years. So see

it as a necessity to keep your country running

instead of a business. And that's quite challenging

because a lot of people that are involved in this business are either coming from

abroad, so they already have the same mindset like hey, it's

an necessity and of course we want to make business out of it. But in

the end it is needed. We want to contribute to the food security ambitions.

But when it comes to the local players, yeah, not everyone,

don't get me wrong, I'm generalizing a bit here, but, but some of them, they

still see it as like, yeah, it should be a proper business

in addition to all the other industries we are covering. So it's a side

business for some farmers even, especially for the smallhold farmers,

you know, they got this land awarded and they used their, their, their farms

as hobby farms and may be required

to contribute to a serious resilience issue. So that

is something I would like to highlight as one change.

The second thing is like let's walk the talk. Let's really execute. I

mean again, this is a topic that goes on since COVID

lessons should have been learned. There were amazing ambitions. There are

even challenges. There are even initiatives like for example the UAE Food

cluster or in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, you have the Saudi

Agri Food Tech alliance and so on. There are proper food security

strategies. But when it comes to the Implementation, there are still some

lacking issues there. So let's act. I mean

there's a lot knowledge in this country, whether from existing farmers,

whether from advisors, consultants, whether it's from the ministry

itself, whether it's from the retailers, but make sure that

it really gets executed right now instead of talking a lot.

And yeah, we can do it all together. Yeah, I know we can do it

together, but let's do it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah.

And I think like some of these examples that you've given

about colocation or co generation, for instance, like

reusing the CO2 from refineries. I mean everyone knows that the

UAE is a big oil producer, but even

reusing some of the heats as well, the excess heats. I mean

that also could be an example of like how to

one offset some of the carbon emissions. Because we know like the

UAE has that ambition of reducing their carbon emissions,

especially from the oil industry. I mean ADNOC has also made a few

investments in that. But like

having a greenhouse adjacent, not only could you offset some of that carbon,

you also produce food for people. And

maybe, I mean, I don't know, I haven't made the math but maybe at a

cheaper price than if it were, if the greenhouse was

all alone in Elaine. Yeah, and it can become cheaper

but first you need to invest in such thing. And yeah, I think

that is the big bottleneck for, for a lot of countries.

People, you know, they wonder if it's worth the investments because we

have seen also some, some tryouts from vertical farms for example

and they didn't work out and there was a lot of money invested there. We

had that discussion before as well. And that could

be due to lack of knowledge or operational management

or consistency or maybe,

yeah, the WR then in the wrong region, I don't know what. But, but

for sure, you know, we should always listen to the big

producers here, the all the elites, you know, the sila.

They, they are here for quite some time and of course they face challenges as

well, but they know what they are doing. So keep them always involved but in

the same time make sure that there is room for

foreign players that can bring in the knowledge and technology. And they don't

only do that to make money theirself. Of course it's all business. But in

the end, I mean you just referred to the fact like okay, the Netherlands is

one of the top three producing countries in

Europe. But because we are a very small country, we are not even half the

size of the United Arab Emirates, right. And we produce

for a lot of countries all over the world. What do you think it does

to our water supply? What do you think it does to our soil or the

usage of pesticides? I mean of course we try to avoid

using chemical pesticides, but still, you know, for some products you unfortunately

need them. So that's the reason why

the Dutch government basically wanted to change the rule.

I think that also happened after Covid to change from producing

and exporting food, producing and exporting technology and knowledge

and. Yeah, you know, for a country like the UAE or any other Gulf

state that is in need of more self production, if you ask me,

be open for that kind of gestures and don't straightaway negotiate about

the price. Yeah, yeah. And I've talked to a

few growers recently and they were alluding to the fact that in

some countries, especially in Europe, the government would offer

a lot of grants and a lot of financial assistance or provide

these affordable loans and things like this.

Even in our country. Yeah, yeah. To help them grow and invest and

continue to produce and meet the demands.

Yeah. Oh true. I mean we have credit insurance companies

in our country as well and we have an organization that's a

semi governmental organization called Invest International and they basically say like

listen, if 25, up to 50% minimum

is Dutch investment in a particular project abroad, we are more than happy to

see if we can facilitate and help co

finance. So there are grants available. So that shouldn't stop

the the local farmers here. Keep in mind also we have here the development

banks, they had similar kind of schemes available. The Emirates Development Bank I think they

had, what was it in the past, like hundred or

250,000 US available per per

farm. Yeah, but the problem was like they were asking, I mean they were

asking like five years of financial statements for a new company which

makes no sense. No. Okay. But then later on

I think, and I'm not sure about the actual grant anymore but what I do

remember is that they even asked for expertise of foreign players

including us with Dutch Green as Delta to see like what would be

the actual benefit if they

submit a business plan from a newbie, a new company.

But on the other hand you also have these so called challenges universities

or even here we had the UAE Food Tech challenge. I think

it's an initiative from mokai. Yeah, I mean they

also help these innovators up to a level for your information

and not many people know that and I'm going a bit sideways now

is that even in our country now we are looking at the innovations

from the Middle east and to see if we can implement them also in Europe.

So yeah, it is happening. We do look at it. Yeah,

yeah, fascinating. But one thing I want to

mention is like, so they compare a

lot to the models in Europe and how it's protected and so on.

But when I take a few examples, like France for instance, where I come

from, there is so much dependence now

to government investments and government aid and

so on that if you remove this within 24 hours,

there's at least half of the farms that just disappear

because they're not profitable. It's impossible to be profitable. How can

they balance that here, like providing this government

funding and so on without making it too

dependent on that funding and making sure that it

remains a business and an independent business?

Good question. Because again, we have an open economy policy here in this country

and due to that open economy policy, it is very much possible

for foreign countries to export their produce to

this region. Yeah, I know it's not a favorite topic to

talk about, but start taxing foreign produce, you know,

and yeah, it will not make it easy for the local consumer. Let that be

effect as well because in the end they are the one who pay for it.

But on the other hand, it will help local farms to survive in

a way. So yeah, that would be the quickest

solution and maybe also the most, I mean,

supporting solution for a lot of farmers here because they, they need that kind of

support. In addition, start. Yeah, you know, brand

marketing and awareness campaigns for local produce. I know that happened

in the past, but lately I haven't seen that much as I was hoping to

see it. You know, like for example, go

visit the schools, you know, the new generation, the new

generations are extremely important not only for the UAE in general. We always

have a focus on the youth, but also for, yeah, for how do we deal

with food security in the future. So start from early time

at schools. Encourage people to grow locally. I mean it's not

expensive. You can buy grow bags on Amazon for nothing, you

know, and start growing locally or even in. In house

with small vertical farming systems. So. So bring the

awareness that local produce is actually more beneficial

both on the short and long term. It contains also more

nutrition, it has a longer shelf life and so on.

I think these things. So start taxing foreign produce

as well. Encourage local farmers by branding and marketing

them. And also the system in general would be the first three

solutions I would look for. Yeah, and also like

making it just easier for them to operate. Like we know like some of

the regulations, for instance with regards to fertilizer are Quite.

Yeah. They're not allowed biological crop comps. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. But also, and even energy usage, I

mean, in Dubai, it's not really attractive to start

a modern greenhouse or vertical farm because the energy rates are way

higher than in neighboring Abu Dhabi. So, yeah, that may be

that on federal level there should be a decision like, okay, if you're an agricultural

company and you can show it that you produce at least this kind of volume,

that it also benefits the consumer, then you will be

applicable to, to have a specific energy rate and make

it federal instead of per emirates. But I don't know. Again, I'm not

involved in governmental policies here. It's just a suggestion or personal

suggestion from our end. But it would definitely help a lot of

farmers to invest also in maybe

technical or operational costs.

Yeah, absolutely. But it's always good to hear your perspective as well because

coming from the Netherlands, I feel like it's one of the countries that's a

perfect example. Thank you. Here for the

uae, even though the weather is not the same, but. Well,

today it is though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, for the past week it has been

a little bit. Yeah. But yeah. So I

mean, we talked a lot about like investing in the infrastructure, so

the greenhouses and so on. We briefly alluded

to investing as well into. Well, to talk about the fertilizer

aspect, how important it is also to

invest in like seed production and fertilizer so that the entire

supply chain is locally available for growers.

Yeah. Not to forget the golden supply chain afterwards, post

harvesting, cold and so on. Well, it is

important if you look at the necessities again, I mean, when it comes

to seeds, I think the top producers globally can still

export these seeds to other countries and they can even produce seeds that

are really adapted to the local

circumstances. Right. I mean, I know from the Netherlands some of the seed companies,

they really have seeds for tomato produce that are only applicable,

for example, to Saudi Arabia or to the Gulf in general.

So when it comes to seed production, I don't know, I wouldn't say like, okay,

let's focus on local manufacturers of seeds and so on and

so on. Maybe on the long term, but I don't see it as a

necessity for now when it comes to fertilizer as well. I think we

have earlier problem to get the fertilizer out of the region and inside the region.

So I think there's not a shortage, if I'm not mistaken. But maybe there is.

I can't say that because I'm not a farmer myself, but that is

of course, quite important to have to

grow specific crops. So in that

case maybe. Yeah, the focus on fertilizers prior to the

growing and seeding process. Yes, absolutely, that is

necessary. The same applies for proper water and energy

infrastructure. Right. I mean also make sure that we

don't use too much water like in a lot of farms still happen.

And also proper energy structure. And we just discussed that already. Like it would even

help if we have a federal agricultural rate when it comes to farming

or energy supply. I mean, and then we have the growing process itself.

I think there should also be more investment in the training, guidance and education of

farmers. Very important. Then definitely there needs

to be a big investment in the cold storage

solutions. Again, even there we need to see how that would

work out when it comes to the diversity in energy

rates supply chain. I think we have some proper

organizations already here active. So whether it requires more

investment I can't say. But I see quite some transport and

logistical companies that sometimes even the retailers supply itself or

the farmers when it comes to

logistics, I don't know yet. And then the offtake

again, how can we convince retailers

but even hotels, you know, the hospitality sector, that

local produce is still good enough to have on your plate.

But yeah, it's a chicken and a next door. Yeah. If the farmer doesn't

improve or if there is no improvement in the cold supply chain, then the

offtake will not improve either. And the other way around, sometimes we

even try to turn it around. Also we always work

according to the so called farm to fork system. But in the Netherlands we also

think about the fork to farm system. So what is it? What the

consumer really needs and wants and how can we work

toward it? Yeah, yeah.

That's an interesting approach and I think it's needed as well because you're right.

Like sometimes the problem is not the farm. It's

also like the transport and the logistics and that

some. Yeah. Handle the produce as if it was like just an

Amazon package. Yeah. And it created a lot. And it created a

lot of food waste as well. And that was another serious issue also here in

this region. And, and also if you look at the. Yeah. The, the

hospitality sector and. And yeah, okay, I don't want to stand on

anyone's thoughts but even a bit the Arabic mentality, you know, there's

always enough food on the table. Yeah. So that

creates quite some, some food waste. Of course. Yeah. And

that is something. Yeah. That should also be maybe a wake up

call. Yesterday I also noticed something very

funny for the first time and apparently it happens for quite some time already. But

it happened to me for the first time yesterday when I left the restaurant. We

wanted to take some food with us. We had to sign for a waiver.

Yeah, take away food waiver. I think they do it because they want

to avoid complaints about, you know, like in case

something happened to the foods. But it is also something you can

maybe use for data gathering when it comes to food

waste, et cetera. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

that's interesting. Yeah. I mean in the end it's just not, it's not just about

investing in food production, is also making sure that there's

not that much waste. Because I'm sure. And even if there is,

what do you do with it? Because again, you can also create biological

fertilizers, you know, so. So in that case,

food waste is an issue and if you can't change it, make sure that you

make the best out of it then. Yeah. And there are a few examples of

entrepreneurs and companies here that are doing it. I mean one of the examples is

circa biotech where he uses

food waste in order to create, well, jet fuel,

in order to create fertilizers and so on. Using insets,

that can be an idea as well. Yeah, you can even create.

Yeah, yeah. You can create energy out of it or indeed fertilizers and so on.

And I'm happy you see these initiatives also on, let's say

governmental level, BIA in Sharjah is working on it for quite some time.

NIMA is of course another organization that. I hope I pronounced it

correctly. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean,

in the end it's all about investing in agriculture in general, not just

in cea. Yeah. But again, investment

in agriculture is not a profit making investment, it is a necessity.

It's a resilience investment. But it

begs the question because we talked about all the things that need to

be invested in or needs to change in terms of mentality

and so on. How long would it take and

how much would it take to implement all of

that in your opinion?

A very difficult question for me as a foreigner living here in

Dubai. Seriously, I can't answer that question. I think that is a question we

need to raise with someone on a higher level

on governmental policymaking level. Yeah.

If it comes to me, I would like to really speed up that

particular process. And it's not only because I represent quite some companies

that can contribute to that particular process and to

speed up the necessities and focus on resilience, but

also it's a moral thing thinking about my kids thinking about the new generations

as well. I mean, we always said, even before this

geopolitical tension we have in the region, we always said, listen

guys, you need to focus properly on food securities. Maybe on the short

term it may work as it works right now, but on the mid and long

term you're going to face some other challenges. Whether it's water

scarcity that becomes even a bigger issue or it is knowledge

guidance or other disruptions, whether

it's a natural disruption or indeed a geopolitical

disruption as we see right now. So again, maybe

current events are a learning lesson for this region.

Again, I hope so. I believe so. Even if you also

see what the Ministry of Economy is doing to focus on the food security aspect,

to even calm the situation, to

confirm to everyone, like, listen guys, we're on it, we know what's going on and

please believe us. And that's really reassuring if you ask me. I mean,

so yeah, maybe they do it already, but it can be

more, you know, let's, let's make it a lesson at schools.

Okay guys, who wants to be a farmer later? Or if not want to be

a farmer? How important do you think food security is? And water

security? Yeah, absolutely. But I also think like

it may require like not just the

UAE but just the GCC, like the whole of the

GCCs involvement in order to have

that food security aspect. Because, well, all the other countries are

facing similar, if not identical issues. Like when

you look at Qatar, it's probably the same thing in Saudi Arabia.

Maybe it's a bit better because they already have like a lot

of infrastructure over there. Yeah, I mean

we are mainly talking about the UE because we both reside here. You're

absolutely right. Similar kind of objectives should be implemented in the

neighboring countries here at the Arabian Peninsula. But there are some differences

in the same time. I mean Qatar is already leading when

it comes to the other Gulf countries. When it comes to self sufficiency, I think

their rate is like around 40%. That had to do of course with the

economic boycott they faced earlier. Yeah. And restrictions

also in exports of their products for quite some time.

So that's a different kind of situation. It's also a much smaller country when it

comes to the number of residents and visitors.

Saudi Arabia, yeah, it's a country that faced a lot of

changes lately from innovations to ambitions to

focus. So Saudi wants to be a country that

attracts more visitors. It had quite some ambitions

also towards, let's say the Expo 2030 and by

winning all of the Olympic Games they want to attract

and I think even FIFA. So in that case

Saudi. And it's a much bigger country, of course, with even more

citizens than here in the uae. They may have similar

objectives as here, but keep in mind the UAE is still, I think the leading

country in the Gulf region when it comes to visitors. I mean Dubai airport was

still always the most busiest airport in the world. Everybody

heard about Dubai, that had a great marketing tool. Abu Dhabi was

picking up rapidly with all their cultural offerings, especially

at Saadiyat Island. Now even other emirates like also

Khaimah with perhaps maybe the first casino in the region and so on and

so on. So yeah, here there was a big necessity

for all kinds of food because it attracted visitors from all over

the world. So even the variety in the cuisine is very high here. And compared

to the neighboring countries. I was saying like whether there

was. Because the food security thing is a

whole, is affecting the whole of gcc. And even if there is

local discrepancies, do you think there needs to be a

wider GCC food security plan and not just

a plan just for the uae, a plan for Saudi Arabia. Plan for.

Because both, both there needs to be a wider

regional food security plan because that, that aligns with what I

mentioned earlier, with the transport and logistics value chain and the

connections between Jeddah port, for example, and Ras Al Khaimah,

but also a local one due to the differences I just highlighted

because of maybe the tourists still go more to the

UE than any other. But don't forget, I mean in Saudi Arabia,

I forgot to mention that you also have of course Medina, Mecca, all the Belgrim

cities. They also have a big variety of people from all over the world.

So even there you need to build proper food

systems close by. I think there were plans once

to build something close to Jeddah, but they have been put on the shelf as

well lately. And then I go back to the Greenport model that

will work. You know, if the Greenport model we just

designed two plants, one for Qatar and one for Oman. We did

that on purpose because the UAE already has a proper food

producing system. It can be better, but they have one already. I mean,

they are a bit ahead in some cases and Saudi Arabia was

working on specific plants, but then they pulled out. The best example is

Topeon, of course at Neon. So that's why we

deliberately started now with Qatar and Oman. But the funny part is it

is very easy to copy for the other

GCC countries as well because it also boots

the economy. It boots even the workforce.

We have all the localization plans from the countries here,

or nationalization plans, it's called, I think.

So it will boost that. It will give them a very important position

on the market. Also logistic transportation, logistic wise,

and also benefits the region in general, not only the

country where we made it for. Yeah. So in that case. Yeah.

Regional collaboration. Absolutely. Maybe even inter regional because

there's also collaboration with countries like Egypt and previously with Sudan

and so on, but also keep a local focus.

So make it a dual approach. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. A lot to do. Yeah. And my final comment would also

be, I mean, unfortunately now there is a big dispute between the

Gulf countries and Iran, but in the good days, Iran could

also really offer this kind of

solutions to the Gulf. They, they have the right engineers, they have

a big variance when it comes to climate, so they can grow.

They also, before the, the economic boycotts, even

the Dutch, they did business in Iran, you know, quite some good business.

Iraq is another country that can offer these kind of solutions for the Gulf states.

So don't need to look all the way to Europe or all the way to

Far East Asia. Also neighboring countries are able

to contribute to these ideas. But then there has to be,

of course, peace and stability. So let's hope for that. And

please forget about all the horrible things that happened in the last five weeks.

Yeah. Or maybe that could be a path to peace and stability as

well. Yeah, but. Okay, yeah,

I'll leave it like that. All right. Well,

Giovanni, thank you again. If people want to connect with you,

how can they do so? Well, we have a website,

Dutchpinasdelta.com and of course we, we produce our own

podcast that's called the Fresh Food Cast as well. The first three

episodes already have been published on all podcast channels

and the fourth one is about to. To be launched next week that will be

on knowledge sharing in the industry. And soon we will be talking about

governance and policies, especially in times like these. So hopefully we can also

support your podcast and the other way around. I think that's the best

way to connect with us. All right, perfect. Well,

Giovanni, always a pleasure, always a treat to talk to you. Thank

you.