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In this episode of the "I Come First" podcast, host Amie Barsky welcomes relationship coach Kelly Gardener to discuss the complexities of self-care, relationships, and the fine line between healthy selfishness and narcissism. Kelly shares insights on how self-trust and confidence can lead to deeper connections and healthier relationships. 

Together, they explore the impact of societal pressures on women, the importance of setting and holding boundaries, and how to cultivate sensuality and self-worth independent of external validation. This episode is a thought-provoking dive into modern relationships, offering practical advice and inspiring stories to help listeners prioritize their own needs and foster meaningful connections.

What We Explored This Episode

03:57 Healthy Selfishness in Relationships

07:46 Socialization of Boys and Girls

09:37 The Paradox of Selfishness in Love

13:56 The Importance of Boundaries in Relationships

16:37 The Connection Between Self-Trust and Confidence

20:01 Cultivating Sensuality and Self-Worth

22:00 Societal Standards and Body Changes

26:26 Defining Confidence

Memorable Quotes

"The ugliest parts of me come out only with the people I trust the most. It's a paradox that the deepest, ugliest parts of my being surface because I trust you enough to see them. This reality, though unfortunate, is an opportunity for growth—for me and for us together."

"Boundaries are not walls; they are permeable membranes that allow for connection. A good boundary doesn't require the other person's participation; it's about what you will do if your needs aren't met."

"Healthy selfishness in a relationship means looking at how the issues that arise are reflections of your own experiences and triggers. It's about taking responsibility and getting curious about your own patterns."

Connect with Kelly

Kelly’s Website: https://www.kellygardner.com/about-me 

Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/iamkellygardner 

Schedule A Call With Kelly - https://communitygardnerllc.hbportal.co/schedule/6506a876455fe4002512df98

Connect With Amie

Website: https://amiebarsky.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amie-barsky/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amiebarskycoaching/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AmieBarsky?sub_confirmation=1

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https://www.amiebarsky.com/free-breathwork

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The ugliest parts of me come out only with the people I trust the most, you know? And it's really such a challenging thing to recognize and realize that when those deepest, ugliest parts of my little boy show up, it's really because I actually do trust you that you get to see this. And it's unfortunate that you get to see this, but it is the reality that it's coming up to be worked through, to be dealt with, and for me to grow so that we can grow together in this relationship.

Hello. Hello, and welcome to the I come first podcast, where putting yourself first is not selfish, it's self care. And self care is essential. Yes, you heard me right. Here we are flipping the script, and I'm going to show you how. I'm your host, Amy Barsky, and I'm so excited you're here. If you're tired of feeling overworked and underappreciated, this is a sanctuary where I'll share my entire journey as a guide to help you break through your patterns, limiting beliefs and societal pressures. To be perfect, these juicy weekly conversations with myself and guest experts will be filled with practical tools, advice, inspiring stories, and unstoppable energy. So if you're ready, then buckle up. It's time to ignite your inner fire and make I come first your new daily mantra. Oh, boy. Today's episode is on fire. Please prepare yourself to challenge everything you thought you knew about relationships. I'm your host, Amy Barsky, and welcome back to the I come first podcast. Today, Kelly Gardner joins us, and his specialty is all about relationships. He works with men and couples all around the world, creating their ideal partnership. He's here to unravel the paradox of selfishness in love. Kelly and I explore the fine line between self care and narcissism, and why self trust is a catalyst to confidence and could be a key to deeper connections. We also navigate the uncomfortable conversation around the cultural barriers that keep women from claiming what they need. So tune in for this fresh perspective on connecting to your sensuality without external validation. This isn't your typical self help talk. It's a provocative journey into the heart of modern relationships. And before we jump into today's episode, here is a quick and exciting announcement. All right, welcome Kelly Garner to the Icon first podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. You have been in my world for quite a few years now and have had a deep impact on my relationship and how I view men in the world, men that are in the work, and men that continue to uplevel their lives, whether they're single or in relationships. So I am very excited for you to share your wisdom with us at the icon first podcast.

Oh, thank you, Amy. It's such a pleasure to be here. I've been such a big fan of your work. How you show up in community and how you show up as a leader and to have this conversation with you and allow other people to hear it is just such a gift.

Amazing. Will you give us a little quick picture of who you are, where you live in the world, and how you support people?

Sure. I recently moved to Asheville, North Carolina, so I'm in the Appalachian mountains now on the east coast. I'm a relationship coach. I work primarily to help men work through the toxic shame of masculinity, to build positive relationships and to be heart centered leaders in their communities. And I also work with my partner to create two on two counseling, working with relationship coaching so that men and women can have support on both sides.

I love that. Well, then we're just going to get right to the juicy questions that I'm excited to ask you today. Talking about relationships, and specifically, we're talking about romantic relationships. And how would you define healthy selfishness in a relationship, and how does it differ from self centeredness or narcissism?

That's a really great question. Thank you so much for bringing that one up. But I did a post a while back ago about the importance of being selfish in my relationship. And what I mean by that is to really look at how is this thing that's showing up in my relationships directly a reflection of me, my experiences in life and where I am uniquely being triggered, and how can I take responsibility for that? You know, how do I get really curious about whatever is going on in my relationship when I'm in conflict, when there's, you know, a tendency to want to point the finger at the other individual and ask what going on? How do I get really selfish in that moment and say, wait, wait, before I start pointing the finger at the other individual, how can I look in my own backyard and really look at the patterns that have been running through my life and how am I actually showing up in this? And that's what I mean by getting selfish, by really getting curious and exploring my own self journey to getting to this place and the patterns that aren't really supporting me and relationship is the best place to reveal where those patterns have been showing up throughout my life. I also work with men and men's groups because it's a little easier for us to see it in that space. Because with my partner, it's easy to say, well, this, this, this, and the other have all contributed the reasons why I feel this way. But when I come into this complete stranger and this person's bothering me about this other thing, then I have to really ask myself, where is this coming from? How do I get selfish about this piece that's showing up in my life? And really, briefly, I want to address that question of narcissism, because it's something that I think about a lot, particularly as it relates to men, because it's a notion that's leveled towards men very frequently. And the position I like people to think about, really, is the compassionate view of the narcissist. To recognize that when I look at the narcissist, the individual who has to create a higher sense of self in order to feel better about who they are and those who are living in and around narcissists experience it as being consistently diminished by that narcissist. The other person is putting you down in order to feel better about themselves. But the compassionate view is recognizing that this is a person who's grown up with a very low sense of self esteem. There's someone that cannot source that sense of self esteem internally, and so they must source it externally. And so with compassion for that individual, I go, oh, okay. If I'm not to really look necessarily at how it's directly impacting me does not work for me, but how it's directly impacting them does not work for them either. So how can I get curious about their life experience and help to ask questions and understand? I think there's a very famous narcissist in society that people often talk about who might or might not be running for president. And I look at that individual and think, what I see from having done so much work with men over a decade now is a man who's still struggling to receive the love from his father that he never got, and how much of this deep, selfish desire is a projection onto other people? My inability to source my own sense of self esteem and feeling good about who I am.

Wow. Thank you for sharing all of this insight. This was really eye opening for myself included. And I want to circle back to the selfishness thing when it comes to women while speak for myself. First off, I remember my mom saying, amy, you're so selfish. Stop being so selfish. And I don't know exactly what I was doing. I don't know actions or what was happening. I don't remember the circumstance but I just remember those words a lot. So what I feel that it taught me, Washington, don't put yourself first. Don't be selfish. Put everyone else first. And therefore, I put on that mask of the people pleaser. I put on the mask of be the good girl. That was the seed that got planted of, like, stop being selfish. You're so selfish. Created this unhealthy relationship until I got to unpack all that over the past, let's say, ten years or so of my life.

And you're bringing up something really beautiful about how we socialize boys and girls differently. And so much of this stems from that early socialization of how I define myself and how I just define a positive sense of myself. Right? So what I hear you saying is that the messaging you received very early is that as a young woman, it was not attractive to focus on you. That, and underneath that, there is a judgment that your value is predicated on your ability to serve other people.

I have been navigating more and more of learning about narcissism because there's a part of me that goes, wait a minute, am I a narcissist? Because I was looking at myself going, well, shit, that's stuff I feel like I do sometimes. Do you feel that there is a slight bit of narcissism in everybody? I know that's kind of a broad statement.

No? Absolutely. If we look at the classic myth of narcissists, right, this young boy who is out in the woods looking to find, really his path, who am I, and how do I matter? And ultimately rejecting the ones that come towards him. This is the story of this nymph that is deeply in love with narcissists, right? And narcissist rejects this nymph. And it's kind of this idea of, like, you're not good enough for me, I'm not good enough for me. And I think that's the real beautiful story underneath that, right? Which is I'm rejecting the other because I don't feel fully alive in who I am. I talk a lot about the idea of this loyal soldier inside of me. There's this protector that's keeping me safe from any perceived pain that I might experience. And the classic example is I grew up with a parent or someone very close that I desired love from, and they didn't give me the love that I wanted. So I created a story early on that I was unlovable, and this became my loyal soldier that kept everybody at bay. And then somebody comes along and says, I love you. And you go, you must be crazy. I'm unlovable. Like, not here, not consciously, but subconsciously, that's what's taking place. So I think that there's an aspect of that in each and every one of us that we're doing with, which is, how can you love me? How can you see this in me? Because I don't really truly see this in myself, and I don't trust you.

Exactly. Exactly. So good. So good. So what I'm hearing, and for the listener out there who might be in a relationship and questioning if she's in a narcissistic relationship, get curious and remember that there's a little boy there and a little girl there. There's that dynamic of two inner children wanting the same thing or similar things, but yet can't seem to find it. There's that conflict or there's that, you know, standing with your arms, like, you know, you're madden, but yet there's that deep desire to love and connect and have deep intimacy. So I wanted to infuse the curiosity piece, like get curious, ask questions from a loving, compassionate way to say, how can I support you? What do you need? What's coming up for you? And I also think that requires a level of safety to ask those vulnerable questions because those can feel very like, whoa, how do I even begin to unpack that? Is there anything you wanted to say around that particular topic?

You brought up some really amazing things. And I think one of the things I often really want to tell people is if you believe you're in a relationship with a narcissist, the very last thing that is going to be beneficial is labeling them as a narcissist. Unless they have a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, that's not going to help at all. And the degree to which I can take away those labels and recognize that in every relationship, I'm always determining, am I in relationship with your mature adult, or am I in relationship with your adaptive child? And how can I acknowledge those moments when your adaptive child is showing up and find compassion for that part of you in order to have that conversation? And I think that's the part that gets really tricky. And that's where I think, oftentimes you benefit from having support to have those conversations. But, man, I tell you what, when two people are in the same room and they get to reveal those aspects of themselves in front of their partner, there is almost nothing that I've seen that creates greater connection than seeing that vulnerable little boy, little girl inside of your partner showing up and going, God, yeah, this is what my external asshole is actually trying to do, right? As my little boy is acting out. This is what he so desperately is seeking and doesn't know how to get.

Oh, my gosh. And you just totally hit the nail on the head. When I support my female clients who are in relationship, a marriage, or simply, you know, a life partner, or even in new relationships where they're navigating this newness, one of the questions I often ask when we're in our spaces together, what's coming up for you? What's true for you? And how old is that part? We talk about parts work. We talk about the elements of different areas of life. You know, your people pleaser, your good girl, your inner critic, your self saboteur. Like, what part is here? And how old is she? So we go down this beautiful rabbit hole of uncovering, and we play with this part to make sure that this part feels that they're lovable, that they're desired, that they have a purpose, because they do to some degree. It's a matter of, you know, letting them drive the bus or nothing, because we want our true self to be sitting in the driver's seat of the bus, and all the parts can be passengers on the bus, ideally, you know, in a perfect world. And so these are conversations that get to be had in relationships. And it's not even just romantic relationships. It's also with friendships. You know, I've had many clearing conversations in ways in which I felt, oh, my gosh, this part of me is so present right now, and, can I share this with you? And this is what's coming up for me. And the next thing you know, like you just said, Kelly, the relationship is that much more loving and caring and deep and more intimate. And again, it doesn't have to be romantic. And so it's like, that's, I feel like, what we desire as humans, and it requires a level of getting real with ourselves and being vulnerable at the same time.

And the thing that I also like to remind people is the ugliest parts of me come out only with the people I trust the most, you know? And it's really such a challenging thing to recognize and realize that when those deepest, ugliest parts of my little boy show up, it's really because I actually do trust you that you get to see this. And it's unfortunate that you get to see this, but it is the reality that it's coming up to be worked through, to be dealt with, and for me to grow so that we can grow together in this relationship.

Absolutely. There's a part of me that wants to go down boundaries right now because of what you just said. Because when we do share those deep conversations or those deep parts of ourselves that we might be feeling shame around or fear around, be like, wow, I'm going to let you see all of me. And then that being crossed, maybe that information is used later on when there's another rupture or conflict. So now let's dive into boundary. Boundaries is an interesting word because boundaries often feels like we're blocking somebody out. At least that's what I thought when I first started learning boundaries. I was like, oh, you mean I'm shutting people out. I'm not letting people in. I wasn't really versed at what the word meant and how to use it in a way to actually infuse my own yeses and listen to my yes in myself, even though I'm saying no to this person, and I'm not saying no to the person, I'm saying no to what they're offering. And so can we kind of clear up any distinctions you might have around boundaries?

Yeah. You know, I think one of the most important things, and I agree with you, this idea of boundaries, they're often used as walls, right? And this wall keeps everybody else out, but it also keeps me in. It's an impermeable membrane, and a good boundary is actually a membrane that allows for connection. I think the important thing that I always look at boundaries is recognizing that a good boundary does not require your participation in it. It doesn't require you to do anything in order for my boundaries to be kept. It's basically me saying, hey, this does not work for me. And if this continues to work in this way, then these will be the actions that I take. If this continues, a boundary is not, hey, I need you to sit on that side of the room, or, hey, I need you. You know, it's, this is what doesn't work for me. And if that continues, this is the action that I'm going to take as a result. Hmm.

I think it's really important to communicate what those are. And I also want to clearly state this, that sharing the boundary and holding the boundary are two very different energies. In my experience anyway, because I could say it all I wanted to, but there were points in my, when I was married over a decade ago where I would say the thing and I didn't have the courage or the strength to hold it. I felt so bad, I felt guilty. My good girl. Came up. Oh, I gotta, you know, my people pleaser. And I couldn't hold that boundary. I was so afraid of rejection. I was so afraid of abandonment. It crippled me.

Yeah, I hear that. You know, I think I see this as a parent as well. The positive reflection that I get to see as a parent is it cripples my children when I don't hold that boundary, when I say, hey, if this happens, and, you know, this continues to happen, this will be the result of that happening. And I don't hold that boundary, you know, that has a negative impact on their development. And I have to imagine that that has a negative impact on my partner's development as well. And I, more importantly, the development of our relationship. When I'm not holding.

Yeah. What I feel like, for me, when I wouldn't hold my boundary, when I reflect back now, it hindered my self trust to trust myself, to keep my word. And so, in my opinion, self trust also has to do with confidence. And I think confidence is a learned thing when it comes from, I trust myself, I trust I can be my word, I trust my intuition. And for me, I would say the boundary, and I. It wouldn't be honored. And I just didn't have that courage, you know? And so I really feel like that diffused the trust I had in myself. It started to really just dwindle down and down, and I just shrunk and shrunk smaller and smaller, and I was not in a healthy place in regards to coming back to my own selfishness to take care of myself.

Yeah. There's nothing that builds greater resentment than not showing up for me. Yeah.

Self abandonment, you know, and, like, I.

Can do it, I can keep doing it. I can keep doing it, but it is inevitably going to build resentment when I don't show up to the things that I say that I want to, to the things that I say that I'm committed to.

I want to jump to this next question, if you're open for it. I'd like to know, in your experience, what's the most common barrier that's preventing women from prioritizing their own needs and relationship and how they can start to overcome that from a man's point of view? Because a lot of women, self included, feel guilty to take time for myself or do things for myself. How can a woman really prioritize their own needs and not feel guilty?

Yeah. That is such a complex and difficult situation, because I think, first and foremost, the thing that pops in my mind is briefly what we discussed earlier, which is impact of our socialization as young boys and young girls, and how much young women are taught that your value in relationship is around how much you're able to support your partner, how much you're able to give to the relationship. And it's so deep, it's beyond my cognition or my realization that it's my deep desire to support, to be there in relationship has been communicated as the thing that I must do. And so what I want women to know on the other side, from a man's point of view, is we experience that absence of you doing for yourself as detrimental to the relationship as well. My partner oftentimes will come to me and say, hey, you know, I'm so sorry. I really need to do this thing. Please. First and foremost, thank you for asking for what you need. And second, please, I really want you to get that. Because when you do get that, I feel so much better. I feel your presence so much more when you're getting that thing that fills you up. I feel that you're so much more available in this relationship when you're filling up those things. And when it is placed back on the relationship as, oh, let's, let's. If I meet this here, then the relationship will meet that need for me as well. Sometimes that can be an extra added weight on the relationship that creates more tension.

And it's interesting, I don't know if you are using your partner's exact words, but one of the first words you said was, I'm sorry, but I need to, or I want to. She's saying the word I'm sorry first. Like, she's apologizing for it, and I do that myself.

Well, my partner's canadian, so she has to apologize. And it's deep, and it's deep, and it's, like, doubles because it is both a cultural piece as well as a gender piece, which is part of the socialization as well.

I really want to dive into this sense of sensuality and sexuality and feeling sexy and feeling connected to that. And so I'm curious, how can a woman cultivate a sense of sensuality and self worth that's independent of their partner's validation or even social standards?

Oh, man, that's a great question. I've been kind of diving deeply into this question because I had a client come to me and said, you know, I feel really sexy on the inside, but on the outside, I don't feel like it's matching. And it started this real deep dive for me around what does it really mean to feel that way? Inside and out. And I think that there's a combination here. Some school of thoughts would say, well, you just got to feel it. It really doesn't matter what's going on on the outside. And I look at this from both the physical aspect, but also the emotional aspect as well as the spiritual aspect. Like, where am I feeling fully alive in my life? And it's really examining those aspects and going, do I feel really fulfilled? Do I feel a sense of I've done the best that I can in these different areas of my life, and I'm good with me in having done that? Because so often I think when that's not present, the need is then to outsource that validation from the outside. Now, none of us live alone. None of us live completely in a vacuum. It's not to say that I have to feel fully sexy by myself without anybody else ever reflecting it. But it's kind of a chicken or the egg question, right? Is anybody else actually going to positively reflect it? Certainly the people that I want to reflect it if I'm not emanating that for myself. And I think that the versions that we receive from others, when I know truthfully in myself that I'm not expressing, that ends up landing flat and reinforcing aspects of myself that really aren't truly my sexiest version of me.

I love this. I want to touch on those societal standards for a second, because I've had clients work with a lot of women, and some of them are moms. And, you know, when you have children, your body goes through different phases. And even in life, just in general. Now, I don't have children. However, I've noticed my body has definitely changed in the past few years, specifically with perimenopause and menopause and all of the hormonal changes. It's been massive. And so from a man's perspective, you know, I have a client. She'll say, you know, my husband says he doesn't care that my body's changing, but she's not convinced. So she's shutting down her own desire for intimacy because she just doesn't feel good in her physical body. From a man's perspective, speak the truth, because I feel like sometimes we just don't hear it and we just knock it over our heads. Will you?

Yeah. Let me give you the upside. The downside, right. The downside is that we as men are a product of our socialization just as much as you are products of your socialization. And so there's stories that we have driven in the back of our head about what our partners supposed to look like or what we're supposed to look like, for that matter, that do become part of the conversation. Right. That's my little boy running the show. That my little boy was told what would give him a positive sense of self esteem. That does show up. But for when a man is in his mature adult self, which is hopefully what you're seeking to engage in sexually. Right. I don't want the boy. I want the Mandev. When the man is present, I can speak to myself and, you know, the men that I work with and what. What they've shared. It's like your presence, your believing in you. Like that is the sexiest thing that is. That actually shows up. It's like this chicken or egg question. It's if you don't feel good about your body, that is going to be projected into the space. And so what we're responding to more than anything else is how you feel about you. And when you feel sexy about you, it's easy to enroll us in the idea that you feel sexy about you. You know, that's a misconception, that there has to be some ideal physical form. And that's more when you're appealing to the little boy inside of us. But when you're appealing to the adult man, the adult man is lit up by you being your full expression of you feeling sexy, feeling alive, feeling that you are enough. That is like the most attractive thing that I can experience.

I love that. And for the woman who's listening right now and maybe doesn't feel 100% in her body. And honestly, I don't think any woman ever always feels 100%. You know, we have our moments, we have our cycles. We have all the things. But for that person, self acceptance of what is can be the greatest gift to freedom. And if I don't like something, if you don't like something, what are you willing to do to change the situation? Because I think there is a level of ownership that gets to be had when we're not happy with something, whatever that might be, whether it's your health, your hair, your bank account, your relationship, your schedule, whatever that thing is that you're not satisfied with. If you're not taking ownership of it and seeking other ways in which to start to move it and design it in a way that you actually, you know. Okay, this feels good for me, then. It's an interesting playground.

Yeah. I mean, I think you. You really landed. It's both how I feel about myself, but also I think that these things, each and every one of them, reveal an aspect of myself where I know I'm not fully showing up for myself. I said I'm going to do this workout, but I didn't do it. I said I was going to do this thing, but I didn't do it. In those areas where I am not showing up for myself. I think that's the most important, important thing to, that gets highlighted when I attempt to do any of these tasks that I might think are going to bring me a greater sense of self. But if I'm not following through with them, what's really showing up in there? Am I setting goals that I don't really believe in? What's really showing up here? And how did that reflect the creation of my sense of self that is so important?

And I feel like this is coming full circle. We're back to self trust.

Absolutely. Like, you know, when I ask people, like, what's the thing that really communicates sexiness more than anything else? And the number one answer I got most of the time was confidence, you know?

Okay, so I know we're about to wrap up. However, for you define what is confidence to you, what does that mean?

It's a tricky one, you know, because when I say confidence, I mean a positive sense of self that I am no better than or less than anybody else.

And for me, there's layers to it. I feel like if sense of confidence is an inside out job, and so if I had zero money in the bank, would I still be who I am? Would I still show up the way I show up? If I lost my home, if I lost all the people around me, if everything crumbled, how would I still show up? And that, to me, is a level of confidence that is almost unshakable. It's definitely that the energies of, like, who am I in the world? How do I want to show up regardless of what's happening outside of myself? Can I stay in my truth? Can I stay in my integrity? Can I stay in my values? Can I stay aligned with my standards? And not to say again, we're still human. We're still gonna fuck up. And when that does happen, clean it up, take the ownership, and then get back in the game. You know, play in the arena, don't be a fan of your life. Be in the arena, and, like, play the game.

That's really the key. It's like, how do I keep coming back to, this is happening for me. This challenge is conflict. This is happening for me, is giving me an opportunity to learn and to grow. And as long as I'm continuing to do those two things, I'm going to keep feeling a little bit better about myself each and every day.

Exactly. I love it. All right, well, how can people reach you? What's the best way for them to reach out to you and send a DM and say, hey, I heard your episode and I come first podcast and it was amazing. All the things.

Best place to reach me is an Instagram. I am Kellygardner. K e l l y g a r d n e r. I'm really in this practice right now. Someone told me this recently that social media is supposed to be a telephone and not a television. So I'm really interested in how do I actually reach out and talk to people through social media, engage and actually have real conversations. So if you find me there, please say hello. I want to actually have a conversation with people.

I love it. I love that. That's amazing. So good. And is there anything else you want to share with our listener before we say goodbye?

Just I'm excited about this new program I'm putting together, the sexy six right now. What are the six aspects that really bring us into our most a vibrant, attractive self and looking at some challenges in the near future. So if you find me there, tell me you're interested in a challenge and we're going to be sharing some challenges, talking to experts on how can we really level up in all of these aspects of our lives. So please look for that in the future.

Well, you heard it right here, everyone. The sexy six is just around the corner, so connect with Kelly. Thank you, Kelly, so much for this beautiful conversation. There was so much value here for myself and all of our listeners and thank you for joining us. Have a beautiful day.

You too. Take care.

Thanks for tuning into today's episode. I know your time is valuable and I'm so grateful that we get a chance to share this space together. If you're wanting more from myself or any of my guests right now, I am a hell yes to that. I love your enthusiasm, so let's make it happen. Simply check out the links in the show notes for all the information on the latest offerings, programs and possibilities to connect outside this space. Or feel free to send me a DM on Instagram. Amybarskycoaching and of course, if you have any reflections or feedback, I am all ears. Also, if you feel this episode supported you, will you please leave a rating and review your reviews? Really help people to discover the show. And if you know of anyone you feel would benefit from this podcast. Please pass it along. A special thanks to my parents for always watching over me and for my team at fullcast for making this show possible. I can't wait to be back in your ears next week. Trust me, you won't want to miss this next episode.