Shownotes
In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, co-host and executive producer Jim Kanichariyil sits down with Andrew Kissinger, CFO and people leader at Clark Logic, to talk about how a 50-year-old organization is using AI to support people-centered growth. Andrew shares how Clark Logic has grown from roughly 70 people to about 230, while expanding across warehousing, logistics, real estate, and acquisitions.
The conversation centers on a practical tension many HR and business leaders will recognize: growth creates more people needs, more questions, more documentation, and more operational strain, but adding headcount to every bottleneck is not always realistic. Andrew explains how he thinks about AI through both a finance lens and an HR lens, especially when the goal is to scale without burning out a lean team.
Andrew walks through the use cases Clark Logic is already considering or putting into motion, including AI-enabled safety training, inventory tracking, dispatch support, recruiting tools, billing workflows, and employee access to answers. He also explains how the company evaluates vendor AI capabilities, why asking software partners the right questions matters, and how business cases can be built around turnover risk, overtime, hiring delays, and employee experience.
This episode offers a grounded look at what AI adoption can look like outside of major tech hubs. Instead of framing AI as a replacement strategy, Andrew describes it as a way to protect capacity, support growth, and help people do better work as the organization scales.
Topics Discussed:
- Why a CFO with people responsibility sees HR and finance as connected functions
- How Clark Logic grew from roughly 70 employees to about 230 while managing acquisitions
- What breaks when acquisition-driven growth outpaces HR documentation and onboarding systems
- Why manual paperwork, job applications, and HRIS data entry exposed the need for better processes
- How Andrew evaluates burnout, overtime, and turnover risk as part of the AI business case
- What AI adoption looks like in Central Michigan, where local AI talent can be limited
- How executive vision from Jamie Clark helped create momentum for AI adoption
- Why Clark Logic is looking at AI to scale toward a $100 million business without simply doubling support headcount
- How AI cameras could support warehouse inventory tracking and reduce manual cycle counts
- How AI-enabled safety coaching could help one safety director support a growing driver population
- Why vendor conversations should start with existing tools before buying new AI software
- How leaders can bring employees into the AI conversation so they do not view it only as job replacement
If you are an HR, People Ops, finance, or operations leader trying to scale a lean team without burning people out, this episode offers a practical example of how to evaluate AI through people, cost, capacity, and growth at the same time.
Additional Resources:
Transcripts
Him being driven for the future, I think is really
2
:what's pushed us to be able to say
AI is something that we can do.
3
:Where other organizations are like, we're
not quite ready, which is a surprise
4
:'cause I love Jamie, but he still
prints everything on paper and we're
5
:talking about how we can implement ai.
6
:So the dichotomy of that
vision is still a lot of fun.
7
:Jim Kanichariyil: You're in Central
Michigan where there is limited talent,
8
:so you have the deck stacked against you.
9
:But that's just scratching the
surface of how you wanna do it.
10
:On top of that, you wanna leverage
AI to scale to a $100 million
11
:organization, and you wanna do it
in a way that's people-centered.
12
:If everything that I told you seems
about as realistic as you being
13
:able to ride a unicorn, I wouldn't
fault you for thinking that.
14
:But that's the story that we're gonna tell
today because there is an organization
15
:that is actually well on the way of
accomplishing all of those things, and
16
:that's what you're gonna hear today.
17
:We're having someone share this
story as a CFO and the head
18
:of people in his organization.
19
:He brings a practical people-first
approach to finance Pairing
20
:rigorous forecasting, strong
controls, and operational insight
21
:with empathy and transparency.
22
:He's known for turning complexity
into action, and he's led multi-entity
23
:finance teams, guided acquisitions
and integrations, and built
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:systems that actually get used.
25
:Andrew, welcome to the show.
26
:Andrew Kissinger: Hey,
thanks for having me.
27
:I appreciate it.
28
:Jim Kanichariyil: Yeah, it's gonna be a
good conversation and I think, right away.
29
:you have the distinction of
being, an oddball in our show.
30
:So we talk to HR leaders all the
time, and one of the things when we're
31
:talking about their career that they
often mention is that, Hey, whenever
32
:I'm looking at a new role, I always
wanna make sure that my role as a
33
:chief people officer, as a or as a CHRO
reporting into the CEO versus finance.
34
:And I usually ask, why don't
you wanna report into finance?
35
:And every single person that I've asked
that question to says that finance
36
:leads organizations by spreadsheets.
37
:My responsibility are people, and
sometimes people in spreadsheets
38
:don't mix well, so I'd rather
not report into finance.
39
:And here we have you who came
up through the finance track.
40
:So you're a CFO and you have
full people responsibility
41
:for your organization as well.
42
:So do you have a little bit of
a two-phase from Batman action
43
:going on in your background?
44
:How does all that work?
45
:Andrew Kissinger: I think
I've been lucky enough that.
46
:When working with different
organizations, I've had the privilege
47
:to learn the people side of things.
48
:I personally am very
passionate about people.
49
:I'm an unusual finance person and such
that I really enjoy working with people.
50
:I think leadership is important, and
I think too many finance people, they
51
:do get tied down in the numbers, but
people really drive the organization.
52
:So having the ability to work
within our HR departments and
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:work with our HR teams to build an
organization that is driven by people.
54
:Our company, one of our mottoes
at Clark Logic is we're,
55
:people looking into the future.
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:And I think that is critical with
finance people to make sure that they
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:remember people and that, being a part
of HR is one of those great key things.
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:Jim Kanichariyil: Got it.
59
:you actually mentioned something that
caught my interest and that's looking into
60
:the future, and I think that's gonna be
relevant in, this conversation as well.
61
:I think one thing that's gonna be helpful
for our listeners and viewers is for
62
:you to map out what the organizational
vision is for the company that you
63
:work for, because that's gonna give us
some context into how you're actually
64
:utilizing AI to get to that future.
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:So what's the landscape look like for you?
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:Andrew Kissinger: That
is a great question.
67
:Clark Logic has been
around for over 50 years.
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:It was owned by Jamie Clark's father.
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:He's grown the business over the last
few years and even within the small
70
:time I've been here, I think I've
been here just over our 12 months.
71
:we've grown our people in the organization
from 70 people in July of 24 to now
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:we're at, I think, roughly 230 people.
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:So we've had a tremendous increase in the
number of headcount in multiple areas.
74
:We offer warehousing, we offer logistics.
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:We offer real estate to our
customers in our clients.
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:And in order to be able to continue to
grow within the organization or continue
77
:to grow the organization, we need to
be able to find, good quality people.
78
:Jim Kanichariyil: When I think
about the growth that you described
79
:you 50-year-old organization that
was roughly at 70 people when you
80
:joined, and now it's at, 230 people.
81
:Organizations that have been around for
that long aren't known for moving very
82
:fast and in a short amount of time,
you've grown pretty significantly.
83
:What were some of the big challenges
that you observed with that level
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:of growth and that short of time?
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:Andrew Kissinger: that's a great question.
86
:So we did a few acquisitions in this
year, and one of the critical things
87
:that we didn't have well documented
are even some of our HR policies.
88
:So our employee handbook, how do you
set the employee handbook to accommodate
89
:the new acquisitions that come in
that have come in at different times?
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:Holiday offerings?
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:one company that we acquired, they
took off the week of Christmas
92
:because the customers that
they work with are shut down.
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:And the rest of our business maybe doesn't
shut down the week of Christmas, they
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:shut down Christmas Eve, Christmas day.
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:So how are we trying to incorporate
even to the most basic thing, what
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:do the employee handbooks look
like from those Organizations?
97
:in our acquisition, we acquired
50 of the a hundred and some
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:odd people that we acquired.
99
:so 50 came through acquisitions so getting
them in line and how do we align those
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:policies and handbooks appropriately.
101
:That's probably been our biggest challenge
is making sure documentation to get
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:those people onboarded, to understand
what clerical logic does and how they
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:can continue to be successful within
their own entities, while also adapting
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:to our benefits and our, corporate
policies and how do we do accounting
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:processes and operational processes.
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:So that's been the biggest challenge,
is helping them integrate in
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:while expanding that rapidly.
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:Jim Kanichariyil: You're talking
about a couple of things that, are
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:pretty interesting in the context
of acquisition driven growth.
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:When you have multiple entities with
multiple legacy policies and you're
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:trying to integrate into a single
organization, I would anticipate a whole
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:lot of headaches slash heartburn slash
questions slash irritated people, and
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:all of that flows to you and your team.
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:How did you navigate all of that stuff
happened during an integration process?
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:Andrew Kissinger: So this is where
I would've loved to have had AI a
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:little bit sooner, but we did the
painful process like most companies
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:do, where we almost have to brute
force method of managing the people.
118
:that's really what got me excited
about AI and what it can do is.
119
:when I look at how we had to go through
the process, documents onboarding
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:people, making sure that their data just
gets transferred properly, I can see
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:where our inefficiencies within getting
that documentation just wasn't great.
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:and we recently looked at how
can we do better next time?
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:So what's the next integration
look like in the acquisition?
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:How do we get those people in?
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:And that's where I look at
AI and say, okay, let's start
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:building the processes now.
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:Such that when we get there,
we're ready to use the AI
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:tools to get that streamlined.
129
:Because the last year has been too much
of, okay, let's print out paperwork.
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:Let's make sure people are filling
out job applications on paper.
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:And then we have to key into our
HRIS system and look at that and
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:say, that is not a way that we should
be doing business moving forward.
133
:And so we started the process of
let's build the AI tools that will
134
:get us in that path, but this last
year's been a lot of brute force and
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:trying to get us to the next stage.
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:Jim Kanichariyil: Got it.
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:So when you think about what that
next stage looks like, that has
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:to be informed by some sort of AI
philosophy that exists either at
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:your desk or at the organization.
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:So tell us a little bit more about
what's the philosophy, either
141
:organizational or personal, when it
comes to AI strategy and how AI should
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:be utilized within the organization.
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:Andrew Kissinger: So the first thing
that we look at in terms of looking into
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:the future is when I look at my team.
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:I say, I'm worried that
they're overworked.
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:So I look at them and I make sure that
they have well balanced lives, that
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:they're able to get outta here on time,
and I say, what are the things that
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:we can put in place to actually help
them be more effective, especially
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:when we're rapidly increasing people?
150
:my team worked a lot of overtime to
try and get those integrations done.
151
:And taking a look at that, I said,
how can we make their processes better
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:such that they're not having to.
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:Constantly work overtime in order
to get these integrations done.
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:I started looking online, listening
to podcasts like yours to understand,
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:okay, what tools are out there
that can take us to the next level?
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:And that's where I started to see
how AI could really benefit us.
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:it could really help us into the future
if we get those processes set up in place.
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:Now, we don't need to
work harder all the time.
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:We can always work a little bit Smarter.
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:doing research, listening to
podcasts, looking at tiktoks, seeing
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:what other people have started
to do, and really saying, okay,
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:how can I apply that to my team?
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:Jim Kanichariyil: It's interesting
hearing a finance guy, and I know
164
:you're more than just a quote unquote
finance guy talking about burnout.
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:'cause that's typically not a conversation
that happens in the finance seat.
166
:although when I talk to executive
leaders in HR,, my conversations with
167
:them is that, hey, if you want your
people initiatives to get traction,
168
:to be able to quantify the costs
of burnout and turnover finance.
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:So when you're thinking about burnout as
one of the things, or I don't want pay a
170
:bunch of overtime or don't want to burn
out our people, how did you quantify?
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:Obviously overtime is, easy to
quantify, but the burnout factor,
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:what was your process to quantify
that as a business case for
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:building more AI into the ecosystem?
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:Andrew Kissinger: So for me it was really
looking at with a lean team, we have
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:three HR people in our organization.
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:Obviously going from 70
to 250, 230 head count.
177
:We have to look at was two people
enough in terms of head count.
178
:with them working overtime.
179
:my team and I were working on Saturdays
to get the acquisition done, and my
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:fear was if I lose one of those people
during this period, I'm losing 30% of the
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:knowledge to run the business within hr.
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:And then we are set back
even further behind.
183
:So I said the cost to lose
that is basically one year of
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:getting somebody onboarded.
185
:My philosophy in general is when people
start a new role at an HR level or
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:finance level, their bare minimum that
they have to be in that seat is six
187
:months before they really start to get
an understanding of the business and
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:then are able to drive improvements.
189
:And that's just starting at six months.
190
:So if you're losing somebody that's
been here for three years, you know
191
:that lead time can take up to a year,
and that's just experience working
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:in multiple organizations where you
lose people, you gotta replace them.
193
:You really can't get your reports
done anywhere for the first six months
194
:'cause you're still training on where
the documents are, where the files at.
195
:So that turnover process, I've
noticed is at least six months for
196
:us to be able to really generate
any value out of a new employee.
197
:So you take the six months and you
say, what's the salary loss there?
198
:Just the retraining.
199
:and that's really where we started to
do the evaluation that says, look, a six
200
:month employee it could be $50,000 if
they're really talented, down to even
201
:just $20,000 for task oriented people.
202
:And so that was the first step.
203
:I said, look, I can't afford, $50,000
when we're doing all these integrations,
204
:so we really need to maintain my
talent here and let's start looking
205
:at how we can make that better.
206
:Jim Kanichariyil: Yeah, that's a
really good breakdown and I would
207
:argue in typical finance fashion.
208
:It's a little bit more conservative
than, than what the data actually shows.
209
:My, my doctoral research is
on retention and turnover.
210
:And when you look at turnover within
an organization, that can be when you
211
:consider all in costs, that can be up
to 200 times what that annual salary
212
:of, of the person that you lost can be.
213
:But to your point about
how long it actually takes
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:somebody to get up to speed.
215
:There's another interesting
component as a of that as well.
216
:Generally speaking, you can look at
that first year of a person within your
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:organization as just a learning year,
and they don't get proficient until 18
218
:to 24 months in the role and if you're
constantly churning people out at six
219
:to 12 months, which is a high inflection
point for when people voluntarily leave
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:the organization, you're burning cash.
221
:So I like, how you drilled
into those numbers.
222
:I haven't seen other
finance folks do that.
223
:So one of the other things
that I'm curious about
224
:— you're, a Michigan, central
Michigan ish, organization,
225
:when I think about
adopting an AI strategy.
226
:The immediate thing that comes to
mind is this is Central Michigan.
227
:How does an AI strategy in
Central Michigan make sense?
228
:Because you're gonna have a gap
of knowledge to even bring or
229
:advance AI into the organization.
230
:So how does the talent landscape of
where you're located as a business shape,
231
:your AI strategy and your AI game plan?
232
:Andrew Kissinger: Oh, that's
a really good question.
233
:So I would say there's
two parts to that, right?
234
:There is: does the talent that we
have in the area, do they know enough
235
:about AI to help me implement it?
236
:So let's say you get a new accountant.
237
:do they know enough accounting
and AI to help support that?
238
:Versus, is there Versus,
is there a local company
239
:that can help us implement ai?
240
:So we've started looking at
a couple different scenarios.
241
:Looking at the talent around here,
asking our interns when they come
242
:in, do they have any experience
with ai, as an example, does our HR
243
:team have any experience with ai?
244
:And seeing if first we can
get that, that skill set here.
245
:But that has been pretty limited.
246
:there's not a lot of people that are
on the forefront of ai, especially
247
:in small manufacturing businesses.
248
:I've talked to a couple companies,
they're like that's futures.
249
:I don't see that as a very
useful tool at the moment.
250
:And then I have to try and pitch to
them why they need to start looking
251
:at AI a little bit different.
252
:But that's just, me rambling about ai.
253
:But when I look at the talent around
here, a lot of the stuff that I have
254
:to do is actually look at software
tools and other companies external to
255
:the Southwest Michigan area to help me
get there because there's not enough
256
:talent here to start from the beginning.
257
:And I like to say we're at the forefront
for this size business and trying to
258
:implement AI because there's not a lot of
people that think the value is there yet.
259
:But, I'm a tech guy at heart.
260
:I'm a people guy at heart.
261
:So getting it started early
on is something that, I've
262
:always thought were important.
263
:Jim Kanichariyil: So it, it's there.
264
:There's a lot of interesting
things about your answer so far.
265
:One of the things that keeps.
266
:Catching my attention is weird
what you're talking about.
267
:It is how weird the things that
you're talking about, are in context.
268
:And, here's what I mean.
269
:You have a 50-year-old company that's
growing at the rate that it is, it's
270
:in the manufacturing space, and you
are pushing AI in the environment.
271
:And the reason why that's weird
is that when I think about
272
:organizations of that structure in
that sector, I don't think of them as.
273
:Being naturally aligned to these things,
I look at them as much more conservative
274
:in operations, leading edge at all when
it comes to technology, so I have to ask.
275
:What's behind the push?
276
:It can't, like you alone,
couldn't be pushing this forward.
277
:What's the bigger, reason why the, all of
this is the forefront of, your mind, and
278
:I'm assuming other people's minds as well.
279
:Andrew Kissinger: I think one
value that we get, that I get is
280
:our current owner, Jamie Clark, is
he's passionate about the future.
281
:He's really always looking towards
the future, and he sees ai, he
282
:goes to a lot of conferences and
people start talking about ai.
283
:And that's gotten him excited
about the potentiality.
284
:And then he comes back to me and
says, where can we apply that
285
:within our business to help us grow?
286
:And that's where I then get excited about
I have a leader that is passionate about
287
:the future and about making improvements
and can see where potential AI is there,
288
:but he's not the one to say, okay, this
is where we're gonna implement it first.
289
:He then comes to me and says,
what are the systems and tools
290
:we should start to implement ai?
291
:And for me being highly technical
finance person, a people person,
292
:that's where I get the ability
to look at all of these different
293
:entities and start to apply these
rules and tools to different systems.
294
:so him being driven for the
future, I think is really what's
295
:pushed us to be able to say AI
is something that we can do.
296
:Where other organizations are like, we're
not quite ready, which is a surprise
297
:'cause I love Jamie, but he still
prints everything on paper and we're
298
:talking about how we can implement ai.
299
:So the dichotomy of that
vision is still a lot of fun.
300
:Jim Kanichariyil: Oh, that, that
makes it even more interesting.
301
:So you have a leader that's
passionate about growth and
302
:passionate about inovation.
303
:But still prints everything out, in email.
304
:And there's, a joke there and I'm sure
that, many other people are thinking
305
:about the same joke, is that it's like
dealing with your parents who always
306
:call you when they want to convert a
document, a Word doc into a PDF, or
307
:how to attach something to the email.
308
:I'm sure that's not really what
you're dealing with, but it
309
:immediately made me think of that.
310
:We're on the topic of
vision you, mentioned
311
:you have an executive team or an
executive leader, one of your executive
312
:leaders, the CEO, who's saying he
wants to use AI to help us grow.
313
:what does that even mean?
314
:Growth can mean a lot of different things.
315
:So how has growth been defined
his lens and then Yeah.
316
:that's the question.
317
:I'll have a follow up after that.
318
:Andrew Kissinger: one of the things that
when we sit down and set the strategic
319
:plan for the business, we say, where do
we want to be in three to five years?
320
:And we say, okay, let's
set the targets high.
321
:We want to be a hundred million
dollar business as an example.
322
:And say, okay, how do we get there from
where we are today and what does that look
323
:like in terms of the support to generate
a hundred million dollar business?
324
:We say where are the things that
we need to improve on in order
325
:to deliver that kind of vision?
326
:Which is it's a long term
stretch and we say, okay.
327
:At that size business, you're gonna
need 400 people with the way our
328
:structure is if we were to do everything
right now with the paper and the
329
:processes we'd have to double the
number of people that we have here.
330
:That's gonna be more HR people,
it's gonna be more paperwork.
331
:And I look at that and say,
there's a better way for us
332
:to grow more effectively.
333
:And instead of just adding people to
solve problems, if we can start to
334
:use the technology of ai, we can then
continue to improve on the processes
335
:while not always adding people.
336
:And that's really where we look at
and say, okay, if we want to be that
337
:long term, a hundred million dollar
business, $200 million business, and
338
:starting with where we are at 230
people, let's not add another HR person.
339
:Let's look at how we can implement
AI to bridge that gap between where
340
:we are with our three people to on
a hundred million dollar business,
341
:maybe you need six HR people.
342
:So what can we do to avoid hiring
six people with the technology
343
:that is available to us?
344
:Not saying that we wanna avoid
hiring people, but it's how do
345
:we leverage our growth, not.
346
:Be restricted by the
people that are around us.
347
:Because I recently hired a HR manager.
348
:It took me almost six months to find
somebody to fill the role, and that
349
:was six months where we're behind
on getting the implementations done
350
:for all our acquisitions and getting
our documents in place, and then
351
:also having our employees, a place
where they can go to ask questions.
352
:They come to me and I don't, I love
helping people, but even my time
353
:gets limited with having to deal with
the finance side of the business.
354
:Being able to give our employees
a place to go means that the six
355
:months to fill that role really put
us behind of where I wanted to be,
356
:able to get to a hundred million.
357
:So I said, Hey, if we could have
technology like AI to support that,
358
:how much better would we be, at a
hundred million dollar business?
359
:Thomas Kunjappu: This has been
a fantastic conversation so far.
360
:If you haven't already done so,
make sure to join our community.
361
:We are building a network of the
most forward-thinking, HR and
362
:people, operational professionals
who are defining the future.
363
:I will personally be sharing
news and ideas around how we
364
:can all thrive in the age of ai.
365
:You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary
366
:community.
367
:Now back to the show.
368
:Jim Kanichariyil: So it's interesting how
you're describing that and I'm, connecting
369
:the dots, but then I go back to the sector
that you're in, which is manufacturing.
370
:Like you said how can we get
to this without just throwing
371
:more bodies to that number.
372
:And the reality is, within the
manufacturing space, you're
373
:gonna have a certain percentage
of people that are salaried
374
:employees, generally white collar.
375
:You can probably apply AI to that, but
then a lot of your hourly employees across
376
:multiple functions, can't get around.
377
:the labor portion of the equation there.
378
:So it's interesting that you're
talking about, areas of opportunity
379
:that AI can be applied to.
380
:So what are some of the use cases
that you're thinking of where
381
:you're saying, Hey there's an
AI solve for this potentially.
382
:What are some of those examples that
you're already kicking around and maybe
383
:even moving into implementation phase?
384
:Andrew Kissinger: So there's a couple
areas that I think are very exciting.
385
:So as part of our business, we do driving
386
:for customers.
387
:We deliver that area.
388
:Right now, we're not anywhere close to
be able to do AI driving areas, but when
389
:it comes to our warehouse operations
and our industrial service for our
390
:customers, one of the things that we
have to look at for our customers is
391
:inventory tracking and where pallets.
392
:So if we could utilize, AI cameras,
which we started talking about in the
393
:buildings where it can actually look at
where we place product, then we're not
394
:having to do constant cycle counts or
constant inventory checks because we can
395
:use the camera system to do that for us.
396
:So as we continue to grow our
warehouses, we're not having to fill
397
:it with people constantly checking
inventory and doing cycle accounts.
398
:And as any of your listeners know
that have to deal with a year-end
399
:inventory psych account, you basically
have to shut down a facility for
400
:some period of time where you're go
off counting the inventory just to
401
:make sure it's in the right location.
402
:And we started working with camera
systems to say, okay, can it
403
:track where we drop this pallet?
404
:Or can we track how much weight
is there based on a whole
405
:bunch of different conditions.
406
:So we started implementing cameras
at different locations for that,
407
:that will help us, so that way
we're not having to add more people
408
:just to manage the inventory.
409
:So we hire one person to move it.
410
:Okay.
411
:But they, we don't have to hire
a second person to also count it.
412
:So that will help us in
that growth prospect there.
413
:And then the other piece is.
414
:When we talk about the support
services to all of the hourly workers.
415
:We typically call 'em a salary, but
sometimes they're hourly workers.
416
:for instance, our dispatch team is
an hourly function where drivers
417
:will call in and say, where am I
supposed to go pick up this product?
418
:Or where am I supposed to drop it off?
419
:Those are usually the non-exempt type
roles in an organization that you can
420
:say, Hey, if we're now 300 drivers,
do I need to add more dispatchers?
421
:And those functions can be supported with.
422
:An AI tool to help them get through the
data and get through the information.
423
:So while it's not always a hundred
percent our hourly workforce, but
424
:there could be salary or there could
be office non-exempt employees that are
425
:hourly that you can start to benefit.
426
:the other area that we're looking at
doing, or that we've already started
427
:is our drivers and our safety policy.
428
:Safety is incredibly important
to our organization and it's
429
:incredibly important to the hr.
430
:And so if our drivers.
431
:All, of our vehicles have a 3D or have
an AI camera in them that take video of
432
:our drivers as they're going along, and
it will give them alerts when there's
433
:an issue with maybe they're looking
off, not straight ahead long enough.
434
:Maybe they get a notification
from a family member.
435
:They look down at their phone.
436
:The camera itself will alert
them that there's a problem.
437
:Then what we're gonna do is we're
actually gonna take a three minute
438
:video of our safety director, and
he's gonna upload it to the website.
439
:It's gonna convert that image
into a training for our employees.
440
:So if they do get an alert, they'll
get an email from the 3D or three
441
:AI generated, safety director, and
they'll have to watch that to make
442
:sure that they're getting coached on.
443
:These are the things that we
saw when you were driving to
444
:make sure that you're safe.
445
:You broke hard so that way you
almost hit a car as an example.
446
:And then the AI generated safety director
will say, Hey, look, here's the incident.
447
:It would pull up a video for the
employee to see, and he would
448
:talk them through that situation.
449
:We have one safety director that
is doing that for our 70 drivers.
450
:If we go to a hundred million dollar
business we're now at 300 drivers.
451
:You would have to hire two safety
people to be able to do that training.
452
:Now with the, AI tools that
we have, we only need one.
453
:We do the three minute video.
454
:It then records his face and his tone
of voice and his language, and then
455
:helps us project that to our employees.
456
:When there's an incident
in our, situation.
457
:We're not having to hire that
next level person for that.
458
:Jim Kanichariyil: Now those are really
good use cases, and I want to tie that to
459
:something else that you mentioned, which
is to get to a hundred million people or
460
:a hundred million dollar organization.
461
:You're, probably gonna need to double
in size, from an employee perspective.
462
:in order to double in size, that's gonna
create problems because you just described
463
:a process where you hired an HR manager,
but it took you six months to do it.
464
:So when you look at one set of AI
applications, and then you compare
465
:it to the hiring function and the lag
that it will take to go ahead and just.
466
:the bodies in the door.
467
:how are you approaching that specific
challenge from a hiring perspective,
468
:because that's a significant gap too.
469
:Andrew Kissinger: It is, and this is where
I have the finance hat and I have the HR
470
:hat, and I look at the lead time to get
an employee in the door on the HR side.
471
:And then I look at what's it gonna
cost us to fill that role in the future
472
:and do in the business case for it.
473
:And When I look at kind of the
use case for that, I always
474
:start on the finance side.
475
:just because that's my bread and
butter, it's where I'm passionate about.
476
:I guess second most is how do
we save the organization money?
477
:How do we grow the business
to a hundred million?
478
:I start with a financial
justification of, Hey, I'm gonna
479
:need to double the organization.
480
:How can I save money by not
having to double the people?
481
:So I look at that first and then I
couple that with historically it's
482
:taken us six months to fill this role.
483
:We can't do that as an HR team.
484
:we can't support our business properly.
485
:Here's the cost of not having
the HR person we're behind on
486
:benefits enrollment, right?
487
:Our employees are no longer satisfied.
488
:We're we did an employee engagement
survey that we implemented with our new
489
:HRIS system and how do we maintain the,
The engagement of our employees if we
490
:don't have a strong HR function, if we
don't have a strong safety function.
491
:And I look at it with both lenses to say,
okay, financially, how do we avoid it?
492
:And then how do we make sure that our
people stay here long term to avoid
493
:the two x cost or 250% increase in
cost for turnover and losing people.
494
:Jim Kanichariyil: So that's everything
that you're describing is a giant
495
:elephant, and it's actually multiple
elephants, so you have the dispatch
496
:solve that you talked about, you have
the safety solve that you talked about,
497
:and then you have the hiring associated
with, with the needing need for growth.
498
:So when you look at all three of
those things, how are you prioritizing
499
:what you're gonna start with first?
500
:Because you're not a huge organization.
501
:Um, you don't have a ton of people
with this expertise in-house.
502
:So what lane are you
picking first and why?
503
:Andrew Kissinger: That's a great question.
504
:the way we are prioritizing that is
first by seeing who you know, 'cause
505
:a lot of software tools and a lot of
systems now are coming with ai and the
506
:first thing is looking at is what do we
have already available to us that we're
507
:not utilizing that could have that?
508
:Tool that we can use, for
instance, our safety program.
509
:We sat down in a room a couple months
ago and we said do we have any of our
510
:insurance companies that offer our
ability to take safety to the next level?
511
:And that's where we found out that we
could upload a three minute video of
512
:our safety director to help coordinate
with our drivers and warehouse people.
513
:And we said, okay, there's one.
514
:We can do that one pretty easily.
515
:We can prioritize that pretty quickly.
516
:Safety guide, go ahead.
517
:The second one was, on our dispatch team
that impacts our billing organization,
518
:a lot, which any finance person
knows revenue is the lifeblood of the
519
:organization and making sure you can run.
520
:So looking at a finance side,
I said, how can we start to
521
:utilize AI to bridge that gap?
522
:That one, we don't have a solution.
523
:There's not, a readily available
tool that we're already utilizing.
524
:And so we're starting to look
at can we build that in-house?
525
:is there another software package
that we can look at to do that for us?
526
:And so we started like any normal IT
project, if you're gonna go and get
527
:SAP, your business will put together
a business case that says, here's
528
:what our options are, here's
what we're going after.
529
:And, uh, prioritize safety first.
530
:Then we look at billing and revenue next.
531
:Um, the third one that we've been
looking at is even our HR system.
532
:Andrew Kissinger: I think I
mentioned that we just implemented
533
:the HRS system and they offer AI
tools for the recruiting side.
534
:So there's not a lot of extra
work that we have to do there.
535
:We just have to enable the software
company to support us and the
536
:AI implementation for that one.
537
:Look at all the tools first,
see which ones already have ai
538
:offerings that we can leverage.
539
:And then if they're easy implementations,
we execute those ones first.
540
:If they're not, we look at
third party software tools that
541
:will help us bridge that gap.
542
:Jim Kanichariyil: Got it.
543
:One of the things that I like about
what you described is how you're
544
:taking a look at, untapped capacity.
545
:What existing tools do we have
that we're not fully utilizing
546
:that might have an AI solve?
547
:I hear that.
548
:I often think about how many
tech companies are where they
549
:have modules for everything.
550
:And if you want to flip something
on, it's gonna cost you something.
551
:And if you want to customize it,
it's gonna cost you some more.
552
:when you're factoring that in
your consideration set, have you
553
:navigated those sort of headaches
or obstacles when it comes to.
554
:Taking advantage of capacity
that exists within a tool set.
555
:but you might run into an increased cost
that you're, looking at or, additional
556
:implementation or customization costs
or where companies say that they have
557
:a particular solution, but it's more
in the concept stage versus live.
558
:How have you navigated
those sort of circumstances?
559
:Andrew Kissinger: That is
a really great question.
560
:So here's been the approach that,
we've taken first, which is first we
561
:start to ask all of this different
software companies that we're
562
:working with, do you have an AI
solution for a problem that we have?
563
:Some of 'em will say, yes it's well
vetted it costs you, we'll say, $10,000
564
:a year to implement that, right?
565
:I think that was our, our HRIS
system said, Hey, we can, we actually
566
:have a tool readily available.
567
:We can implement your, or we
can improve your recruiting and
568
:applicant tracking system through ai.
569
:We connect it to indeed
it's $10,000 a year.
570
:I look at that and say, okay, what
does a recruiter cost us as an example?
571
:So to justify that software, I can
look at what it would cost us in
572
:terms of people to do that way.
573
:So that justification was
pretty quick and simple.
574
:when we look at safety when it comes to
transportation, a lot of the companies
575
:actually already had the software package
as part of the core functionality that
576
:we had because we spend a little bit more
money on the software package for safety.
577
:Then maybe some companies will,
they'll get the most bare minimum
578
:and they will assume that they
can do everything else themselves.
579
:We had actually invested in a higher
quality software that came prepackaged
580
:with AI once they were ready for it.
581
:So that one was almost no
cost justification because
582
:they had already had it.
583
:We had already been paying for it.
584
:We just didn't realize we were paying for
it because we never asked the question.
585
:So when we asked the question,
we find out as part of it, I
586
:would say, so it's prepackaged.
587
:There's already not, a software offering.
588
:You just need to ask them for
it and find out how much it is.
589
:And then there's a third one where
we have a software company that
590
:we've been working with on our
dispatch team is they don't have ai.
591
:They know that they want to do
something with ai and they've started
592
:doing things with it, but they
haven't launched it with a customer.
593
:And so we said, Hey.
594
:Let us be your Guinea pig.
595
:Give us a huge discount and we'll
help you design the software.
596
:We ask some questions about
how we can get it implemented.
597
:We say, what are the
tools that are in place?
598
:And then we'll say, okay, let's work
through what AI will look like on
599
:our dispatch system as an example.
600
:And we say, okay, now we're
working with that company and.
601
:How can we leverage AI with that tool?
602
:And we get a discount on it because
they haven't gone far enough that they
603
:can start to market it to other people.
604
:But we ask the question upfront that
they weren't quite ready for it.
605
:And so they give us a huge discount.
606
:and then there are other softwares.
607
:We use QuickBooks online.
608
:They've started to implement ai.
609
:It's already part of the package.
610
:And then we get to leverage invoicing
AI tools because it's already
611
:part of the package that we buy.
612
:So it's really about asking your vendors.
613
:What is available to them and not
being afraid to go to them and say,
614
:look I want to get AI implemented.
615
:Do you have a tool?
616
:No, you don't.
617
:Okay, let me help you develop
it gives a huge discount.
618
:Jim Kanichariyil: That makes sense.
619
:So I know that there's, you're in
the early stage of this process.
620
:and things are gonna look fairly
significantly different, let's
621
:say, even a year from now.
622
:But when you look at where you started
to where you are now, what were the
623
:big things that you've learned in the
process that's gotten you to this point?
624
:If you had a chance to do something
over, what would those things be?
625
:Andrew Kissinger: Ooh,
that's, that's a good one.
626
:I would say the thing that I would do
differently is, I would say most likely
627
:is asking the questions sooner, to the
vendors and what tools are available.
628
:It took us a while on our HRI
system asked a question, our safety.
629
:I think I said last quarter is when
we really started talking to them.
630
:We should have had that
conversation last year.
631
:AI has been around long enough that for
us to ask those questions, we should
632
:have started the process then that way
we're not having to hire the extra people
633
:to help get the systems implemented.
634
:So just going to the vendors sooner so
that way we can start the process earlier.
635
:not being afraid that,
there's a solution out there.
636
:The other thing that some of the HR
people, I think will run into problem
637
:is the adoption and having your
employees want to ask the question
638
:because the first thing people think
of, I think when they're talking to
639
:ai, even on my billing team, they're
like, okay, what's this mean for my job?
640
:Making sure that the employees are
part of the future with AI and not
641
:the gonna get replaced by AI because.
642
:Everything that I tell my people
in my organization is I need to
643
:get to a hundred million in sales.
644
:That's my target.
645
:I'm gonna need, at minimum at
least 50% more people in order to
646
:support that you are needed and
you are vital to the organization.
647
:So don't be afraid to ask questions
to help you be more efficient.
648
:Don't, be afraid to ask QuickBooks
online what AI tools they have available.
649
:Safety guy.
650
:Don't be afraid to ask them
about video cameras and.
651
:all that stuff because we need
you here to help us deliver
652
:this and to continue to grow.
653
:Jim Kanichariyil: Great stuff.
654
:If people want to continue the
conversation, what's the best way
655
:for them to get in touch with you?
656
:Andrew Kissinger: best place to get
in touch with me is, on LinkedIn.
657
:definitely, you can message me
there, you can connect with me.
658
:I like to post a lot of stuff on
LinkedIn about AI and how to leverage
659
:people and the finance pieces.
660
:So that's usually the best
place to get ahold of me.
661
:Jim Kanichariyil: Awesome
stuff, so we'll make sure to
662
:include that in the show notes.
663
:Appreciate you hanging out with us.
664
:And, I'm gonna be interested to
see how this scaling journey goes
665
:and what stood out to me about
this particular story is that.
666
:This is a story about the process
of scaling to a hundred million
667
:dollars organization with ai.
668
:Now, normally when people hear
that, they automatically think part
669
:of that equation means that you're
gonna whack a bunch of people that
670
:already exist in the organization.
671
:And that's what makes this conversation
interesting is because it's a people
672
:centered scaling journey that includes
AI as an accelerator, and as a value add
673
:versus just purely a cost control tool.
674
:And.
675
:What I find even more interesting
about how this is shaping up is that
676
:when you look at any sort of major
initiative, it starts with executive
677
:suite attitude and alignment.
678
:First, have a CEO who's
committed to a growth vision.
679
:That vision has moved into execution
at your layer and underneath, and
680
:that actually provides a lot of
momentum in how this should be done.
681
:And what else is interesting about it
is that one of the first things that
682
:you mentioned in the conversation was.
683
:You had a line, you had a line
of sight on what are the things
684
:that are burning my people out?
685
:that's really interesting on a number
of fronts, especially coming from a
686
:finance person, that they would be
looking at quantifying burnout and the
687
:cost of the turnover that's from there.
688
:So again, you have a people centered
scaling story that has AI embedded
689
:in it that's looking to solve that.
690
:And that's all tied with a
revenue justification as well.
691
:So when people make the argument that.
692
:AI can't be implemented with, but
implemented and you can't do it without
693
:taking the people out of the equation.
694
:I would hold this up as an example
of how you can be people centered
695
:and have AI as a way to enhance your
people experience as you look to grow.
696
:So I think tho all of those
things are really important
697
:considerations on how it's an and.
698
:Question or an and initiative
versus an OR initiative.
699
:And I think that's an
important conversation for
700
:everybody to pay attention to.
701
:So I appreciate you sharing that with us.
702
:And that's what I took away from it.
703
:for those of you who've been listening to
the conversation, thanks for tuning in.
704
:If you like the conversation, make
sure you leave us a five star review
705
:on your favorite podcast player and
then and subscribe to the show and
706
:tune in next time where we'll have
another leader sharing with us how
707
:they're using AI to future-proof HR.
