In this episode of Black Work Talk, Steven Pitts and his co-host, Toussaint Losier, talk with Mariame Kaba. Mariame is one of this country’s leading abolitionist thinkers and practitioners. She has founded several projects organizing around abolitionist principles including Project NIA. Many of her writings on abolition are collected in a recent book, “We Do This ‘Til We Free Us”. We talk about Mariame’s definition of abolition and what might account for the increased interest in abolition. Later, we move to talk about various abolition campaigns from around the country and close by examining political strategies needed to build a world without various forms of organized state violence.