In this episode, I speak with first year trainee clinical psychologist Jack Griffiths about his unconventional journey from football coaching in Wales to securing a training place after six DClinPsy application cycles. We discuss how he used non traditional experience to build his psychology identity, the challenges of being a male applicant in a female dominated profession, the pressure to demonstrate vulnerability in interviews, and what helped him stay grounded through years of uncertainty. Jack reflects on assistant psychologist roles, rejection, resilience, supervision, and the value of authenticity in developing as a clinician. This episode is ideal for aspiring psychologists preparing applications, strengthening reflection skills and carving out their own unique path into the profession.

Highlights

• 00:00 – Introducing Jack’s journey and years of persistence on the path to training
• 01:20 – Meeting Jack and how his football coaching background first caught my attention
• 01:54 – Jack’s route into psychology after repeated ACL injuries led him into coaching
• 02:49 – Working with teenage academy players and using psychology to build culture, leadership and communication
• 03:31 – How a love of psychology began early, and why Jack followed curiosity rather than a fixed plan
• 05:28 – Staying grounded and authentic while entering a new profession
• 06:11 – Using experiences from football and lifeguarding to strengthen reflections and clinical applications
• 07:37 – Applying motivational interviewing and coaching models on the pitch, including autonomy and self leadership
• 09:14 – Bringing personal style to coaching and rejecting outdated coaching stereotypes
• 09:59 – We discuss being male in a female dominated psychology profession and how this shapes vulnerability and growth
• 11:51 – How gender dynamics shape reflection and openness in interviews and supervision
• 14:19 – Applying six times to training, losing confidence and feeling stuck as an assistant psychologist
• 16:23 – Why assistant roles vary, and the emotional toll of years of striving for a single outcome
• 18:25 – Interview challenges: authenticity vs playing “the reflection game” in high pressure situations
• 20:32 – How men in psychology often start at a disadvantage around vulnerability expectations
• 22:47 – Thoughts on equality, diversity and inclusion, and how men sometimes fall outside the conversation
• 24:13 – Navigating assessment during training and handling power dynamics in supervision
• 26:23 – How allowing yourself to start from zero on placement can lead to the biggest growth
• 29:31 – The emotional impact of not being “chosen” for a placement and managing ego and comparison
• 32:17 – Early anxieties about meeting supervisors and fitting into new teams
• 33:42 – Final reflections and encouragement for aspiring psychologists on their own unconventional paths

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Imagine chasing a psychology career dream for years, rejection after rejection, and still finding the courage to keep showing up. That's the story of today's guest Jack, a trainee clinical psychologist who applied six times before finally securing his place on the doctorate. Jack's route has been anything but ordinary from football coaching in Wales to working as an assistant psychologist. He's woven his love of teamwork, mindset and motivation into a journey defined by perseverance and purpose. In this episode, we talk about what it really takes to keep believing in yourself when the system feels impossible, the self-doubt, the sacrifice, and the quiet moments of resilience that get you there in the end. Because sometimes success in psychology isn't about being chosen, it's about choosing to keep going. Hope you find it so useful and if you do, please like, subscribe, and follow for more. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. I am Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist, and I'm joined here today by Jack Griffiths, who is a first year trainee clinical psychologist. Hi Jack.

Hi.

Thank you so much for agreeing to come on this episode. You've been on my radar for a little while because you contributed as a case study to a chapter that I wrote on a book on auto ethnography. So that's where you first caught my eye because you were talking about your work as an academy coach and the responsibility and the pleasure that it brought you, but how it helped you think about psychology and psychology principles. Could you tell us a little bit about your route, Jack?

Yeah, so I started coaching football around the age of 23, 24 after I had a couple of ACL injuries. To me, ACL was the third time I've done it, so I thought it was time to hang up the boots then and delve into the world of coaching. At the same time, I was an assistant psychologist and I quickly discovered how important it was to merge those two passions of mine and how they reinforced one another and how they helped improve myself as a coach, but also as a practitioner and as for loads of different reasons, I think it was communication was a big one, how you interact with people, your leadership styles, and probably most importantly, the culture you create. And as soon as I use some of the psychological principles that I've learned as an assistant and through my undergraduate degree and whatnot, it really helped improve that culture and create a nice environment for the young lads.

So a lot of the boys we were working with teenagers, 16 and 19, so it's very quite an impressionable age, quite the responsibility as well because I think for a lot of the boys, football is their world as it was for me for a while, and it goes really well. I've learned a lot, developed my skills really well, and it was a really good five years. I've had lots of different roles. The last role I had was chairman of the club, so it's quite a big club in Wales. In fairness, I'd say it's more than a grassroots. It was an academy at one point and I've been first team coach, I've been player, I've been lots of different things really, and it's put me in good stead for training now on the doctorate finally.

Yeah, absolutely. And we'll talk a little bit about that word finally shortly as well. But actually before we hit record, you told me a really lovely story about how psychology came into your life and it's too powerful a story to not tell and not let you tell. Could you retell us that?

Yeah, I think for me, psychology has been something I've been interested in probably for my teenage years, something I've always been interested in, always been curious about, and you don't really learn about it at comprehensive school doing your GCSEs. It certainly wasn't a topic we studied in school, but it was something I was drawn to. I remember doing English lessons, we have to go to the library and pick books and I was often done to the science and psychology section, picking up books on memory and learning the method of local and have people testing me on list of items I can remember. And I was very curious and very passionate about that. And that led me then to Psychology A levels across skis, college, and I think the first person I spoke to on the open day was the psychology teacher, and it's kind of gone from there.

Then I've just kind of followed my interest. I think lots of people, especially on the course, they've wanted to be a clinical psychologist since they were like 17, 18, whereas for me, it's just been following my interest in maybe what I'm good at as well and what I'm drawn to. Yes, I've gone through a conventional route in that sense, but I feel like since I've graduated it's been maybe a little bit more unconventional, a little bit different than most people. I don't think there's many football coaches slash train psychologists in the country and it does make me sound a little bit different and something that I think has really complimented each other and certainly helped me in each of the areas, but also I think I enjoy both of those things as well. So if I can merge those two, I'm enjoying life really.

And that is so lovely to see because actually sometimes people join training and they're like, oh, this is not what I thought. This isn't good, but you're pleased with where you're at and I guess you've still been able to, you still feel like, I think that's kind of what's coming across.

Yeah, I dunno if I've changed. I probably haven't changed much. I think you'd have to ask my friends and family if I've changed, but I don't think I have to be honest, I feel quite grounded and quite secure in who I am and what I enjoy and what I'm interested. And I think as long as you do that and as long as you're following your interest and your passions and doing what's right for you, I think you can be fine.

And I did an episode with Jack Lowe. We were talking about job crafting and that's the idea of actually being able to take your experiences, what you've learned, maybe some of the vulnerabilities there from seemingly maybe not super relevant roles, not directly clinical relevant roles anyway. Have you been able to do that a little bit from your experiences with your academy work and with the young men that you've been coaching to weave into your psychology reflections and interviews and applications?

Yeah, I think early on it was one of those messages you often get from people with psychology. Nearly everything is relevant if you're working as a lifeguard, I used to do. If you're working with lots of different people, it is going to help your people skills, your interpersonal skills, which is really, really important. So I've kind of always, I suppose subconsciously maybe I've always thought about what can I take from this and apply it to psychology? And that's certainly what you do when you're applying for jobs and things. So thinking about how my time as a lifeguard helped me assess risk and work with people and deal with people, that was always something I thought about. So when I've had to do that with football, it was probably a lot easier. I was doing it at the same time as well. So I was literally leaving the hospital and going across the road in estro to the training pitch and coaching people, coaching the young boys.

And then I think at first I probably didn't bridge that gap. It probably took a little bit of reflection, a little bit of thinking about, okay, what can I do here? And the more I learned as an assistant psychologist, the more I could applied to my role as an academy coach, as a football coach. And yeah, I stopped bringing in things quite literally then it was using things like the Oscar model and motivational interview and doing halftime team talks for example. That was something that I thought, okay, this is real tangible thing. I can take over quite concrete here and quite specific. And it would often be the case of asking people, okay, what have they done well, this half, what can we do better? And having them come up with their own ideas. That was quite a little, I thought it was a little clever trick that I used to do at halftime.

And the boys used to talk and we give them autonomy, we give them competency, they feel quite related, building on that self-determination theory, and that was something I kept in mind quite often, especially because they were young boys and I thought that was part of their game that they needed to develop. We needed to create leaders and that sense of ownership on the pitch. So I thought about that quite a lot and that's maybe something I've talked about in the article I wrote in the psychologist about, and I really learned a little bit more when I was writing an article about what I've learned as a coach and what I've applied. And then the other things are just kind of the things I learned from my child and family. So thinking about what's happening at home for these people, thinking about the A BC model, the iceberg model, all those sort of things, thinking a bit more deeply about the players and they are people and they were a good bunch of lads to work with.

They were lovely lads, academy boys all wanted to do really well. So it was quite a good bunch to apply those psychological principles on really you get to know the boys deeper. Then I think just being myself was really helpful as well and quite an extrovert. I quite like people, I'm curious about people. Anyway, so I didn't have to really change my personality much at all. It was just more about being yourself and not trying to be a stereotypical football coach really where you shouting and telling boys off, that's not my style. And as soon as I appreciated that, I think I started enjoy it more as well. And the boys responded better as well. And we've had some success. We've got a couple of league titles and it was a good five years. Yeah,

Amazing. And I bet they'll really miss you and you'll obviously miss aspect of that. You might not miss the draughty, draughty Welsh weather. I'm now a football mom, I have a whole coat that I've bought, I've got a whole outfit. If it's raining or windy, it's not always the most pleasant place to be. Is it? And as we are talking, I'm really thinking about your experience of also being male and psychology and even picking up that psychology book and asking your mates to quiz you on brain parts that can't have been that easy, even being different. I'm guessing most of your friends probably weren't picking up psychology books, but maybe this is the friendship group that you had, but raising your head up and being like, actually I'm going to pursue psychology. I want to ultimately be a qualified psychologist one day and I'm male. Could you talk to us a little bit about that?

Yeah, it's an interesting concept because I think when I was growing up, especially in comprehensive school and even when I went to A Levels, I didn't see it as a female dominated profession and to honest, I don't think my friends do either. So the friends who haven't really worked in psychology, they probably would've given a bit of stick for working with a female. I don't think they know. So hopefully they don't see this part of the podcast, but it's nothing I thought of either. And I think maybe that's mainly that's because if you think of some of the famous psychologists, they tend to be men. I think some of the more prominent ones at the moment, it tends to be more men. It was only until, I remember quite vividly I walked into Manchester University Open Day and it must've been 80% girls there and my dad turned to me, I can see why you want to do psychology now.

And I was like, I didn't know about this. This is kind of the first time I've realised it was this female dominated. And then I've gone into the undergraduate and you see 75%, 80% women on the course, and it's the same there when you go going to clinical. For me, I've kind of enjoyed that. I think growing up I got two brothers, all my cousins are boys, all my mates were boys really. I was very much a football rugby kind of guy who would spend all this time with boys at one point you could say, would it be difficult working with it hasn't been at all. I've really enjoyed it and I think it's quite enjoyable being sometimes the only man or one of the few mens on the team because you do bring something new, you do have different insights and different perspectives on things and you do feel quite valued.

So I've kind of enjoyed it. I think it is a little bit harder for some men in psychology. I think it's certainly hard to maybe talking about before, show your vulnerability and open up and be really reflective. I feel like maybe men start a few years behind and it takes a little bit longer to catch up. I feel like women got maybe more of a running start at that, but as soon as you're able to develop those skills and learn them, it does become easier. But I think it's something I thought about a lot and is it a positive or negative? And I remember when I first started off, my supervisor said, you're going to have to work a little bit harder in clinical psychology. A man, I took it with a pinch of salt thought, it's not going to be like that. It's going to be fine. It's very, all the talk around quality and diversity and people will acknowledge that. And he was probably right when I look back. So it is full of challenge, but it's full of opportunities as well. I think being one of the few men in the course, it does allow you to do maybe things that other people don't.

Yeah, and that question had the conversation had come up, because like I said, as soon as I got your submissions for the auto ethnography chapter, I just was really taken by the way that you'd submitted them and what you'd written and even the length of what you'd written on the survey, it was just really impressive. And I kind of said to you, well, how long has it taken you to get to where you are now? And you were like, oh, sort of lost count really, but maybe about six applications. So you've really kept trying, but is it okay to ask how old you are?

Yeah, I was 31 in January,

So we're not super much older than most people, but it's how you've kept going and actually the choices you've made. So you are Welsh and you've never lived outside of Wales, but actually you have had reserve place offers for the University of South Wales, but last year that didn't come about and you were like, actually, I've got this place offer at this uni and I'm going for it. I'm taking control and I'm leaving the country. That has raised me. That's not an easy decision to make, but I'm really pleased that it's working out for you. But really in psychology, because of the small nature, I think of assistant jobs as well and certainly doctoral places people will often move, will uproot their entire life. I only moved from the kind of Milton Keynes area to Coventry, but I still did it. I still got all of my belongings moved. And it's not a small thing to do, is it? But it's that passion that drives you.

Yeah, I was always taken aback when I hear people move from my London and parts of England to work in Newport for an assistant role. So people move for assistant roles, which is, it's not something I probably would've done to be honest. There's plenty of opportunities in South Wales. I did work in Powers for a bit, which was an hour day, hour back commute, and that was quite tough, especially when the fuel prices were as high as they were. I think it was 2020 2 21 when it was like two litre for diesel. Yeah, people do do it and it is so competitive and I think that's why people do it is that uber competitiveness, but it is also for a lot of people, I feel clinical psychologists the only route that's feasible for them due to the funding, due to the cost. So I think that's why there's that soon that bottleneck.

You see, and unfortunately lots of graduates in psychology, they don't use that degree directly. They go off and do other things because they see clinical psychology is not a feasible option for 'em. You do need a little bit of luck, you do need a little bit of good timing. I was lucky in a way that I got my first assistant role nine months after my master's. I dunno how long I would've s stuck at doing it because I didn't realise how much I enjoyed until I did it. So I was lucky I got a foot in the door fairly early on in my career. And then that year roles you enjoy. So that always helps. Yeah, certainly this year when I was on the reserve list for Cardiff this year, I didn't get an interview again, and that's kind of the second time I haven't got an interview after having an interview.

And I found that it slammed the interview really tough. I didn't think I did as well as maybe the Cardiff courses, but I must've done something right. But I remember speaking to my supervisor saying, I'm kind of done with this now I can't because I'm 31, I'm still an assistant. People around me are getting on, but I'm not, I dunno why I'm doing wrong, I can't do much more. I've got publications, I've all these different roles, I've worked in research, I've worked across the lifespan I can't do anymore. And I was kind of done with it to be honest, and I was starting to think of other things to do, maybe going back and studying medicine or going and working in a completely different field where I can earn more money quickly. But thankfully last ditch of 10 I got on and yeah, I haven't looked back really.

I'm just pleased I gone on because I think this is the field that I'm suited to the best and this is where I feel most comfortable and it suits my skills and it's probably the area I can go the furthest in. But for lots of people, they don't get the rub of the green, they don't get the luck or they haven't got the ability to move away for whatever reason. Whereas financial or personal reasons that they can't move from London, from where else to London or to Liverpool or Glasgow or wherever, got other things going on.

Absolutely. And I think before we started recording you'd say actually it's actually really hard to go into an interview where you've never met them before, you dunno anything about 'em and to then be really vulnerable from a standing start and I guess this is what we ask our clients to do as well, isn't it? But you kind of said that actually that's really, it feels trickier, not necessarily something that you do regularly. It takes you time to build those relationships. So that's maybe an additional barrier to getting you in the profession.

Yeah, I think during my sad, for example, I'm sat there and there's three or four women looking back at me and I'm thinking, I've been told time and time again I need to show vulnerability and I need to do this, I need to do that. But it's almost like it's ingrained in you not to do that. And your gut feeling is saying, don't show your vulnerability here, don't show your weakness here. And sometimes yeah, you just can't do it even though you feel like that's the thing to do, which is a bit, I felt that's quite unnatural and that's not me. Then being authentic, it's almost like got to say, I got to say something, I got to show a weakness, your vulnerability because that's what they like. So it is kind of that whole interview mentality. Then I suppose where you're doing things, you want to be yourself, but also you've got to play the game a little bit.

And I didn't like that part of the interview, I suppose where you've got to do things that doesn't feel natural to you. I think when you're in a stressful environment and you get one shot of this and otherwise you've got to do the whole stressful, rigorous, declining application again and wait another year and you're still in a system role, that pressure does get to you and you do go back to what you know and what you feel safe doing and that is what men do best. It is just saying everything's fine and getting on with things and saying, yeah, it is great. And I definitely did that in the amp interview. Maybe towards the end I was able to express that, but even in the feedback it was like, yeah, show us a bit more vulnerability. But for men it's really hard. We conditioned for the last 30 years not to do that really. So

Yeah, and it's whether we can, I guess as supervisors, either male or female supervisors, it's whether we can I guess really recognise that and really try to use supervision as a space, not just for client protection and case management, but to think about vulnerability and trying to weave in that and reflect. Is that something that's been done with you in supervision? Do you think that's something that would be beneficial to do more of? Can you do it now as a trainee for example?

I feel like when you go on the course, you do feel a little bit more confident, a little bit more relaxed as an assistant, you're still on that kind of rat race a little bit. You're trying to get on and you're trying to get to the next checkpoint. You're trying to do the best you can. I think it probably takes more than just supervision once a week with a clinical psychologist who you're working with, I think to breakdown those barriers and change how men think it's going to take more than that. So I think it's more about taking into consideration how men work in psychology and ADing to those needs rather than trying to change the men. Because I feel like the system at the moment does suit women more because of that emphasis on reflection and showing vulnerability, whereas it's really hard for men to do that.

I think thinking about it is not the problem we're able to reflect and think about, but it's just verbalising it and pulling that out to, especially around women and women you don't know. But yeah, when you get comfortable in supervision, I feel like that's been the case, but at the same time, I think it's easier to reflect and share vulnerabilities as something you can relate to. But that's difficult as a man in psychology because there's very few people like us in the profession. So yes, it is a difficult balancing act had, and it's something that I think should be taken into consideration more. It is difficult and we talk about equality and diversity and inclusion and trying to make things as accessible for everybody, but unfortunately I don't feel like men are brought into that conversation as much as maybe they could be. And I think it's a bit of a paradox with society and clinical psychology really. It's a bit of, it's the other way I feel,

And it's definitely, I hear you. It's really hard when you are striving in a career to be vulnerable enough that that's seen as good, that's and not so vulnerable that you're unhinged and need a safeguarding referral put in and you don't then get a reference. It's striking that magic balance and yeah, it's that power dynamic, isn't it, that actually, especially as an assistant that you don't always have. And I think my experiences of then moving on to training and I had six different supervisors during my time and very quickly having to forge working relationships with those some more successfully than others and still having that power held over you. You haven't been there yet because you're yet to start your first placement, but there will be likely a mid placement review and during that mid placement review, a question will be asked, is there any chance that Jack could fail this placement? I can tell you that when you're waiting for that answer, you're like, oh my God. And once you hear hopefully no, oh, and then you really can be thinking about how to meet your goals and finish this placement on a high, but you are constantly assessed for those three years.

Yes. It's not something I've thought about too much in fairness, but I think given, like you said, it is been a long time getting on the course and that comes with lots of different assistant psychology roles. That's certainly going to help me on the course. I think I'm kind of used to changing and working in different teams quite frequently. I've worked in all the big settings really. I've worked in older adult child and family, did a secondment in adult psychology, so I've kind of got lots of skills that I can always lean back on, but being assessed is something new. Again, having that conversation is going to be difficult. Yes, I haven't thought about it, so it's, it's going to be interesting. And how I deal with maybe criticism and room for improvement I think will be something I'll have to get used to. Not many, I think with assistant psychologists is often very positive. They want to build you up and make you feel more confident. I haven't thought about that to be honest, Marianne. So however,

Yeah, well food for thought, but do allow yourself to grow into these new roles. I think we can often put ourselves a lot of pressure on ourselves to go into a placement feeling like we are the expert at that already or that we should be better. And I think almost one of the most powerful placement experiences I had was intellectual disabilities. I had never worked in that setting, and so I actually went in feeling like a bit of a fraud actually. How am I going to go and deliver anything of substance when I just, I've got to start from zero really. But when I allowed myself to do that, and I was honest on day one with my supervisor, I've never done this before. I don't really know what I doing and maybe I haven't even ever really applied for roles even as assistance with people with intellectual disabilities because I didn't think I'd get them.

And B, it wasn't really one of my passions. So now I'm delivering a service to people and to their families, and my supervisor was so kind and so sweet and just allowed me to grow. And actually when my placement was finished, they were like, we would love to have you back as qualified. And they were trying to put a job together so that it would be ready so that it would've gone through the funding by the time I finished training. And unfortunately it just wasn't ready. It wasn't ready for another sort of six months after I qualified, so I already had a job, but they still contacted me and said, it's ready, it's going out to advert, will you apply? And I was like, I'm really sorry. I don't feel like I can now. But that is if we allow ourselves to grow and we are maybe open about what we don't yet know, we can grow beyond where we would've imagined we might be able to be. That's I guess the value in allowing yourself to be curious and allowing yourself to grow and maybe being a little bit open.

I think that's the subtle differences in it between placements and assistance, psych alder roles in a stranger way. You haven't pain name in a hat to go into that job like you would do with an assistant you haven't applied for it, said why you're going to be great at it and then go do it. Whereas with the placements you put into it, you've applied for the clinical psychology, so you've been honest about that, but then when you place in that placement that maybe you don't feel comfortable, maybe don't think you're going to enjoy that. That's not you being disingenuous or anything like that. It's kind of this is how I feel. But I think like you said, it is important to go in with an open mind. So I've certainly been in that position where maybe some of the roles I thought I was going to enjoy, maybe I didn't enjoy as much as I thought and vice versa.

And I think when I've worked in intellectual disabilities, I have a similar feeling, how am I going to work with this clientele? I haven't got loads of experience. Everyone seems to really know what they're doing, but then when you keep that open mind and you learn and pick up skills, I think I've probably learned so much more in those roles that may be my other roles because I was soaking everything up and trying to learn as much as I can just so I could do the job really, and it wasn't as scary and it wasn't as different as I thought it was going to be really. And you still able to bring all those skills and experience you've got from other roles into that role that maybe seemed so different to what I've done before as well.

Absolutely. We've got those core skills and our own personhood that we bring with us. And I think even every supervision session you've ever had and every supervisor you've ever had, they're kind of in the room with you as well. So it's not that you're starting completely from zero, you still got your soft skills, you still got ways of being, and obviously even people with intellectual disabilities, you're often working with their families. They're often not intellectually disabled themselves, and so there's lots of transferable skills. But yeah, you've reminded me actually in my first placement, I found it really challenging to not have been chosen.

Yeah, that's the other side of the coin, I suppose. Yeah, you haven't been chosen

And knowing that I'm filling the shoes of someone that's just, and I'm filling the shoes of a first year who has done two placements already and I'm coming in as a first year, first placement, I found it really hard. I dunno if it's my ego, I'm not sure, but I found it really hard because obviously in assistant roles you are chosen because probably there's been 150 people apply and you are the queen of the crop. It almost maybe develops this slightly narcissistic I've been chosen, so I can go in there and I can feel a bit more confident. And I wasn't chosen, not by this woman anyway, some of the people that interviewed me, they chose me. I haven't been chosen. I could have been anyone. Maybe they'd have preferred someone else. And then you find yourself sitting there and you think, oh yeah, that person from my cohort, they would probably have fitted in better here than me. And it's a lot of noise, but we can notice those thoughts, we can notice them and not hopefully be derailed by them.

I sent an email to, we had our placements this week, and I sent an email to my new supervisor and it was almost like part of me was thinking, when I send this email, I want to come across as quite competent and I'm going to be okay. I can do this job, don't worry. I'm not completely useless. I think I mentioned I've worked in this service before and I probably said that just so she doesn't think, oh, I've got this person who doesn't know anything. At least I'm going in with a little bit of knowledge and I'm going to be able to do the job somewhat. So kind of don't worry sort of thing. But it was an unusual, yeah, it was an unusual situation to be in. And I suppose, yeah, your ego does come into a little bit. You want to be okay doing the job, really, and you want to be valued and not made to feel like you shouldn't be there.

Yeah, I had a slightly cringey moment then just thinking back. So I'd been given a time and a date and a location to go meet my first ever supervisor, but maybe I worried that I wasn't going to be held in mind or that I needed something extra. So I did actually make contacts with, I think I emailed my supervisor or called them and left a message or something like that, and they're like, yeah, did you not get the message about the time and the day? I was like, yes, but okay, I'll see you then. Because ordinarily plans aren't made for us, are we make our own plans or the person has made them directly with us or sent it to us and it's come kind of vicariously round the houses and I needed to be seen a bit more, but thankfully she didn't hold that against me.

And it's unusual to start a place when you haven't met the person before, so obviously with your assistant or you would've met them in an interview or had a chat beforehand. Can we sort the DBS checkout? Where do I get my laptop from? I don't think we're going to do that for this. You just kind of turn up on the day and you probably tear up. Nobody knows who you are. You've got an awkward conversation with a receptionist. Hi, I'm Jack. I'm here for my first day. Jack, who are you to? And you think of the name as, I think it's Ali. I think that's her name. It's always uncomfortable the first day, but that's something I've got used to. Anyway. I think you've just got to go and knowing it's probably not going to go smoothly. It's going to be a bit chaotic on the first day. Hopefully I'm wrong, but probably right.

You never know. So I've joined some services that are like that. I've joined others that you turn up and on day one there's 12 folders on your desk and you're like, oh, okay. They didn't know I was coming. Now I've got to get up to speed. So yeah, all placements are so different, but just go with it and be curious. Be reflective if you can, and just allow yourself to grow, to learn to develop, and know that all of those great skills that you spoke about, even stuff that you've done with the coaching for your academy, all of that is with you, all the boys you've worked with, they want you to do really, really well, as does everyone else who knows you. And we are all rooting for you as well, Jack. So I hope placement one and Beyond goes so well for you. Thank you so much for joining us, Jack.

Thanks very much.

Thank you again to my guest today. Jack, the kindest thing you can do is to go wild in the comments with support, with encouragement, with how this resonated for you. And I know that Jack will be really pleased to see those comments as well. You can do that on YouTube. You can do that on Spotify. Thank you so much for watching this episode. If you found it helpful, I would love it if you consider following or subscribing to the show, wherever you watch or listen, it's the kindest thing you can do for any creator that you rate. If it's your time and you are ready for the next step in this wild old ride of psychology, do consider coming along to the Aspiring Psychologist membership. You can join from 30 pounds a month with no minimum term, and it's never the right or wrong stage of your career to join. It's never too early, it's never too late.

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