In this episode, Sophie Jackson talks to Chad Wellman, CFO for Africa and the Middle East at General Motors. They explore Chad’s career journey through different roles within General Motors, as well as how a creative background can be a powerful asset for achieving success as a financial leader.

Hello, and welcome to Ask A CFO, a podcast series that shines a light on the unique paths taken to become Chief Financial Officer, whilst also exploring the personal stories of those that have made the journey.

I'm Sophie Jackson, and in this episode, I'm very thrilled to be joined by Chad Wellman. Chad is General Motors' CFO for Africa and the Middle East, and a very unique financial leader.

He's a very creative individual who leads with empathy, and I'm incredibly excited to show you all how a creative background can be such a powerful asset in achieving financial leadership success.

Amazing. So, Chad, you've got an interesting background story, I know, because we've spoken before. So, to kick us off, tell me about your early days growing up and how you think that this set you on the path to where you are today professionally.

Absolutely. I guess that's definitely the best place to start. You know, very interestingly, if you would have been back there asking me where I'd be in the future, I'm sure this is one of the last places you'd guess on a podcast.

With you sitting here in Dubai, but let's, let's give it a start. So I grew up in Michigan just outside of where General Motors headquarters is and actually where the GM proving grounds are in Milford, Michigan in the US and live my entire life there. Grew up there went to school, went to university nearby at Michigan State, and then ended up moving back there as I started work, which I had started with General Motors right out of school as an intern.

My grandfather actually was an engineer for General Motors as well for his entire career. Also, my family tended to drive General Motors vehicles. So, you know, all of that would, I guess, suggest that it was written in the stars that I was going to end up working at GM.

Early on, probably couldn't have been further from what I had thought I was going to be doing as I was very involved, more so in the arts, really focused on, you know, pencil sketches and sculpting and really just on the more creative side of things growing up and really thought that, you know, that was a passion I was going to pursue coming out of high school. So, a very interesting path and journey that's led me to where I am today. A bit different than maybe what I would have thought early on. But, you know, hindsight's 20/20 and looking back at how it all came together, I guess everything did kind of work out, you know, the way it was intended to.

Amazing. And I'm not sure I like the way that we separate kind of creative and non-creative mindsets, because I think the best business leaders, I know are very creative.

And I think often people are surprised that you have that background, but I think it allows for a more rich experience in general. So, I love that. Tell me a bit about your current role and that career path that you've had with GM.

Yeah, well, first of all, I love that you said that I absolutely feel the same way and I think as we go through this discussion here today, we'll probably touch on what I think are some pretty important pieces of bringing my passion to my work and how it's kind of enabled me throughout my career to find new opportunities and capitalise on those opportunities as well.

But yeah, so just a little bit of background and I guess I'll start with where I am here today. So I'm living out here in Dubai with my family. We moved out here about a year and a half ago, as the CFO of General Motors of Africa and the Middle East.

We're largely an importer of vehicles that are produced and manufactured out of North America, as well as with some of our joint ventures, and we support a distributor network here throughout the Middle East and throughout the region in order to sell those vehicles. We also have a production facility in Egypt where we support the Africa business. We have a large market share of the commercial trucks. We've just launched a new passenger vehicle. And so, you know, another interesting aspect of having a bit of a manufacturing type of a facility out here as well.

You know, the experience since moving out here has been one of a lot of growth for me myself, not only personally, but on the professional side, certainly being able to lead such a strong and large organisation and stepping into a role where responsibilities are great. We're able to capitalise on a lot of opportunities. There's a ton of opportunities out here in the Middle East.

It's really a hub for innovation, for trying new things. It's a great place for startup entrepreneurial mindset as well. We see a lot of piloting of new ideas here that end up being scaled globally as well to have massive impacts and benefit for global organisations. And so, it's been a very exciting journey here over the last year and a half.

I'll take you a little bit further back to where I started my career with GM. So, I started as an intern. Right out of school, I was in between first and second year of my graduate study for my MBA in finance and the rest was about history.

I had finished that internship, when I showed up on day one at the Renaissance Centre in Detroit, looking at how big the building was. Not knowing how to find my floor or my office, not knowing who I was going to be working with or reporting to, it was a very intimidating scene for me.

And I didn't get too deep into this when we first kicked off with, you know, my early days in childhood growing up. I was a very, very shy individual, very introverted and very timid when it came to, you know, new settings, social settings.

And so, this was a big leap for me coming out of school to make my way into the city and really kind of take that first leap of faith for myself, to put myself so far outside of my comfort zone. That internship proved to be a very critical point for me to, one, prove to myself that it was okay to take chances and take risks and do things that were uncomfortable and also how they paid off when I was stepping out of my comfort zone.

The relationships that I built, the people that I worked with, the things that I learned in those short three months made it very clear to me that this was what I wanted to do for the rest of my career, basically, and that I had such a strong, powerful, network of people around me who truly had my best interest in their own heart and willing to help me and teach me and coach me and guide me along the way.

And so that was really what inspired me and what brought me back to General Motors full time as I graduated from my MBA studies there at Michigan State.

Amazing. And I love what you said there, because I'm just reflecting back as you spoke about interning. I mean, I don't think that I've ever worked harder than when I was an intern, because as you say, you don't know anything. Everything's scary. You don't have any existing network to fall back on. You don't have any previous experience and so I do think it's the most challenging role that we probably all will ever have. I know you make more intellectually challenging decisions as you get older, but that first kind of sink or swim experience of being tucked into an organisation, I just, it really made me sort of reflect back to my first roles there so thanks for that.

Tell me, you've had very different roles and I think that's been critical for your advancement. So, tell me, how important do you think that moving across different roles has been for your professional development? And do you think that these diverse professional experiences have given you an edge, so to speak?

Oh, it's been absolutely critical. I spent a lot of time going back to Michigan State University through recruiting efforts and a lot of the messaging that I was providing certainly was evolving every year that I had more and more experience, but it quickly became a very consistent theme of the beauty of corporate finance, being able to move around an organisation as complex as General Motors and support all of these various functions, doing very specific things on a great scale, really gives good exposure and opportunity to learn how the greater machine comes together and works.

So, I started my full-time career in sales and marketing in the US, where I was able to get some exposure to the commercial side of the business, really looking at what the competition was doing and what it took for us to support our dealer network and really retail vehicles. And from there, went into labour relations and manufacturing, where I was able to learn how we interact with the unions. We have the UAW in the US, which was kind of the cornerstone there.

I was taking a lot of best practices and learnings of how the finance team supports our labour relations team through negotiations and setting up for success on both sides of a contract as we go forward and taking those learnings and best practices and applying them to other regions globally to help support those teams, which was another very interesting role.

From there, I went to product development, which is a critical piece of how we take a vehicle from you know, a thought or a concept to ultimately being something that we're, we're retailing and putting on the road.

And I spent about four years there, very closely working with our engineering community, learning how we go from design, we set through the vehicle development process various different metrics, targets, goals for a product and how we take it from concept all the way through, and how we work across the organisation with all the various functions that need to come together in order to make the production of some complex product like a vehicle possible across your supply chain, manufacturing, purchasing, sales and marketing, engineering.

We've got different components that come together in various different ways, and it gets very complex very fast. So seeing how all of that works, really just being an observer to a lot of it, but also then being deeply integrated with the business partners over time in order to help drive decision making, support the right level of transparency and data and what we need to do and how we need to pivot when things inevitably don't go exactly how they were planned over a four year process.

From there, I went and led a startup within GM called EV Growth Operations. It was really a very interesting time to be a part of a team that was building a bridge between what we had done for the last 100 years and how we were going to transition the organisation from an operational perspective.

Thinking about the customer from what we've done historically with internal combustion engine and what it really meant to go fully electric and how we were going to bring value, really excite the customer and take them on that journey as well.

That turned itself into quickly a bit of a software enabled services type of a role. One of the critical components to drive adoption is with such a technologically advanced product, it also needs to evolve over time and get better over time and change with the taste, the preferences, and with our customers as well, and so part of that is the ability to drive change into a vehicle via software.

And so, we started to explore that space and what that really meant, that led to creating another new organisation that was really focused on the development of new products and services, as well as our autonomous personal driving technology with Super Cruise and some other critical pieces that are coming through the roadmap into the future.

And from there, it was really a focus on far out strategic development plans for the future. There's a lot of you know, long-term horizon planning, diving opportunities and looking at, you know, not what we think it might be worth today, but what it could be worth into the future if we were truly to win and truly to keep the customer at the centre of every decision that we were making.

And that's a bit of the transition to my role today, which is bringing a lot of that future strategy, future plan, together, applying it today with what we're doing while also executing on a day-to-day basis here in the Middle East from a commercial lens.

Yeah, and as you said, like how exciting that all your experiences now are bringing you to, I mean, probably one of the most dynamic regions in the world right now.

I mean, it's the part of the world where wherever I'm speaking with corporates, like if it's in Asia or if it's in the States, that's what they're always asking about, like what we're seeing from the Middle East. And I think there's such a connectivity with that region with the rest of the world now.

So, you are creative and an artistic person, which I love because that's how I started out too. And I always think of myself as a creative first, which is, I think, an unusual way to approach how people perceive people who work in the corporate space.

So how do you think your creative mindset has influenced your leadership style and I guess your ability to drive innovation? Because I think the two are inextricably linked.

Amazing question. Yeah, I think it's absolutely been a cornerstone of, you know, one, not only being able to bring my true, authentic self to work every day and ensure that what I'm doing is aligning my passion with my job so I can kind of, when I say, take the work out of it and keep it fun and keep myself energised as well.

It's definitely been a critical component to the success of a couple of the startup type roles that I've mentioned, where we're really exploring white space. You know, day one with that EV growth role, I had opened the computer, no meetings on the calendar, blank sheet of paper, really where are you gonna go from here?

Very, very uncomfortable feeling, but also one where you just take one step at a time and before you know it, nine, twelve months have passed by and there's a team of people that can sit together and look back and say, look where we've come.

We had no idea where we would end up, but where we got to was pretty profound. And I think the ability to take steps when you can't see what's in front of you is enabled by curiosity. You know, I'll sit down and I can sit down for eight hours straight and sketch on a piece of paper.

I may have no idea where it's taking me, but that first line that you put down is critical because the rest of that drawing is going to have to work around it. So just taking that first step, putting down that first line is then really critically important to take steps that perhaps I wasn't super comfortable to take, but I had faith that I would always end up in the right place at the end. And we always end up with something really great when we get through with it.

The other piece, and I mentioned about aligning the passion with the work, so to speak, has enabled me to put in a lot more effort and energy, I believe, in certain areas than perhaps I would have if I was misaligned. Because it's a self-fulfilment that I get. I can recall early in my career, one of the first roles I had was very focused in Microsoft Excel I had never worked in Microsoft Excel, and I was lucky to have a few people around me who had spent a lot of time in the programme and started teaching me about writing macros and how you can develop formulas that can actually start to almost think for you. This is AI way back then, right? Where I was really looking at it as almost a puzzle I was trying to solve and identified that if there was any repeatable process throughout any of the work that I was doing.

And generally, there was a lot of repetition when you would go over a month that you could either write a formula or build a code that would teach that programme like Microsoft Excel to go back and do the exact same thing over and over and over again. And so, I started to view that almost as solving a puzzle. Some of my creative energy was coming just by figuring out how to write these formulas to the extent that I would take the work home with me and work on it over the weekend because it's just fun.

That allowed me to make a lot of progress very, very easily, quickly, the investment and the time that was being put in actually freed me up to do other things because I was starting to take work out of the core day-to-day tasks. And with that, because of the level of excitement I would get from those types of endeavours, I would then reach out and try and share it with anyone who would listen.

That quickly caught on and, you know, not only are you scaling the benefits of that type of work, but also slowly start to emerge as someone who potentially could lead in some capacity to be a coach and be a teacher to others and to be absolutely transparent. That was not who I thought I was. Every time I was approached to take on some sort of a new role or leadership change, my candid response was, are you sure? And every time it was, yes, we're sure we see you doing it out there but again, it wasn't what I had seen for myself, luckily, others did and I always put my trust in the mentors and the leaders around me and put my faith in taking those uncomfortable steps, knowing that the more that I did that, the more comfortable I ended up getting. And things tended to work out for the best. Again, we had a great support system. So that's all been a very important part of my journey and also how I'm hopefully helping others find their path and how they align and their passions.

Yeah, I think you've made so many powerful points there, but there's something I really wanted to pick up on there, which is this concept of discomfort, because I think if we all thought about what we would end up doing, as you've well said, it's never the traits that we saw in ourselves earlier on that often become our strongest set of skills. And that involves a process of constantly being discomforted and constantly trying new things.

And if we think back to when we were both speaking about our interning days, like that's probably the most discomforting experience that you'll have. And that's why it's the one where you learn the absolute most in quick time. So, I think it's not something I've actually explored specifically within any of the interviews today, but it's something that I think is very interesting is the idea of being comfortable being discomforted, because that's where growth come from its where innovation comes from.

I'm sure a lot of very stagnant, stale companies have a lot of staff who are very comfortable doing the same thing they've always done, but this is not where we get best practice or excellence. Is it something that you actively lean into now? Do you think, oh, I'm getting too certain of this function, I need to try something new or be more curious and open?

You are spot on. As soon as I start feeling myself get comfortable, I start seeking out the next thing that's going to put me in that uncomfortable space. And actually, you know, in the beginning, again, it was a lot of trust and faith in the people around me that, you know, knew a lot more than I did, had a good understanding of who I was, what drove me, where my strengths were, and putting me in these positions, and I was trusting them to do so.

And quickly, as I started to see what was happening, as I stepped out of that comfort zone, and that's really where the growth occurs, I started to more actively seek that out. And I actually, I can remember very specific when I did step into that EV growth role, I had two roles in front of me. One was a role that I had thought I wanted for quite some time, probably since I had started.

It was one of the roles that I was, you know, hopefully going to work toward at some point. And it was actually offered to me and that's where I thought I was going, I thought, perfect, wow, you know, everything is kind of lining up. And then shortly after that, this role was brought to me.

And, you know, at first it kind of came as a bit of a shock of, well, that's not how it's supposed to be, right? That's not what I had been working towards at this point and, you know, it's really not what I thought I wanted because I was already starting to get confident to move into this next role that was part of quote unquote, the plan, which is never really the case when it comes to a career.

And I had a lot of discussion again with some mentors of, of mine. And ultimately what it came down to was which one is making me more uncomfortable? And definitely it was the one that was a startup without a team that I had to go build and, you know, you know, try and figure out what we were going to go from there.

And I made the decision solely on that basis, that it made me a lot more uncomfortable. There was a lot more room for failure. It could go nowhere, right? You never know. It was a much bigger risk and ultimately, that was why I took it. And had I not taken it, I'm certain I wouldn't be sitting here today in the world that I'm in.

And, you know, it's very crazy to think that just three, four years ago, that was a decision being made. And now, you know, I'm on the other side of the world, having amazing experiences, working with amazing people and learning other, you know, things about culture and just different ways of working.

And, you know, that would not have happened had that one decision to take another uncomfortable step, not put me in that position. And quite honestly, when we moved here, this would have been probably one of those most uncomfortable scenarios as well.

But by that time, you know, about ten years into my career, making this decision was really not as scary as I could have imagined it to be earlier on to move and kind of start fresh with a new, almost a new organisation right within the company.

Yeah, amazing. And I think you've touched on a good point there because that discomforting feeling is also having to be open to the risk of failure. I definitely have not mastered this yet, but I think everyone I admire has gone through adversity or failures, in fact, like professional failures at moments that they've managed to pivot from, bounce back from, and it creates more resilience, it creates more kind of dynamic thinking because you've got to find a way out of situations.

And I mean, as I say, I don't think I've quite found my comfort with that yet, but it certainly is something that I see as a critical muscle to develop. So, thank you for that there. Before we move on to think about the role of CFO itself, is there anything else you'd like to add on how creativity can be a tool, particularly for leading your teams and for being an inspiring leader.

Yeah, maybe this response will expand into that. I think it's really important what you just mentioned about not being afraid to fail, because certainly early on I was. I was a bit of a perfectionist, you know, wanting everything to line up and be perfect know I quickly learned that's not going to be the case.

But you know, the more that I had those failures and learn from them, and I would really early on internalise a lot, I would put a lot of pressure on myself, I think, I think a lot of us do internalise those things and replay it over and over and over.

And how could I have said that, you know, I should have said this, knowing I couldn't change it, but also just making sure that I really took that lesson, but I was creating a lot of undue stress on myself as well.

And over time, you know, the more that I leveraged those moments as learning and growth moments, and I'd say once I, you know, stepped into leadership, I started to really lean into using failures as a means and a superpower of coaching. Because there's no better way to connect and coach and help others reach new heights than sharing your own personal stories and helping them understand that we're all human. We all go through this. This is part of that growth, you know.

Actually, I'm much more grateful for my failures than my successes because those are the times where I really have learned the most, grown the most, I've taken the most away from them generally in a setting to help someone else overcome a challenge.

It's not leaning on any of the higher successes as an individual. It's really leaning on the failures to relate and or just coach through them. And so that's a much more important piece of leadership and personal growth and development as well that comes along with it. And some of my biggest, most broadcasted failures are the ones that I really tell the most, because those are the ones where, you know, when you're, when you're inside your own head, you have a decision to make, this is going to define me, or it's going to become a superpower rule that I'm going to use to help advocate for, you know, even if it's a mental health and awareness type of a discussion, right?

Then you start talking about imposter syndrome, we all go through these things. But when you are an outsider looking in, you don't know that someone else is struggling in a certain similar or even some other different way that could be aligned that you really could help someone out.

And because of where I started from, I'm able to really put myself back in those shoes on day one, as we talk about showing up as the intern. And remember how I felt with all the challenges growing up as a younger child. And all of those struggles and just wanting everyone to know that it's okay. I was there too. And the more that you put yourself into these types of position, you know, the more you realise it's okay. It's not that bad. It's not that scary. And then eventually you're on a podcast talking.

I've just been nodding so vigorously to everything you've been saying, but I think you're so true. And I think when you're comfortable with your own vulnerability and you can own it, you do become like, as you say, like superpowered because your confidence comes from the complexity of all the different parts of you.

I remember speaking with someone who I always thought just so had it together and was the best public speaker ever and telling them that I used to get so nervous about it. And then them sharing with me how much worse it had been for them.

And I thought afterwards, if they can coexist with these two realities, then that's fine that I do too. It's fine that everyone does. And suddenly you find that actually you don't feel as much leaning into the fearful side of you because you've been allowed to have it and so you're not repressing it anymore and then you can control it.

So I think, yeah, it really, it's so powerful when people that you admire tell you the truth of their experience rather than just the edited LinkedIn or Instagram highlights. So thank you so much for that.

Absolutely.

I want to move us on now to look at the role of CFO itself, because one of the big ambitions that I have for the podcast is that we help to open up access and understanding of what the role entails and how people might develop the skillsets to get there themselves.

So, in your view, what do you think the most essential skills for a successful CFO are? And how have you worked to hone those skills over the course of your career.

Yeah, great, great question. I, you know, for me, outside of just core fundamentals, of course, it's very important to be able to have some agility across any organisation that you're supporting, not only from, you know, a knowledge perspective of, again, how things come together, I talked about my career path and the ability to really work across a broad organisation.

It's really, really, important to be able to build very strong, meaningful relationships with the business that you're supporting, the business partners that you're supporting. So that's kind of step one. Leveraging experiences and expertise is great I think being able to build really true, trustful, meaningful relationships allows for more real candid conversations and dialogue to happen. I see the CFO role as a very strategic role. It is not a transactional additional finance type of the role.

So, I think it's evolved to be even more so having a seat at the table when it comes to making strategic decision, and having influence over not only decision operationally, but also from vision and culture, driving an organisation to achieve a common goal.

I see myself in all of these discussions, having the ability to influence. It's also very important to play a strategic risk management type of position where we're looking at all the different angles, running different scenarios, and having a pulse on what's happening externally. Companies intend to get somewhat insular focus in discussion over time with what we know.

And it's important to always be looking at spring in an outside perspective. What is the competition doing? What are we seeing out there? There's a lot that we can bring beyond just the core. And then, you know, one of the biggest things that's happening right now, it's been happening over the last few years.

And looking ahead, it's only going to happen even more rapidly as being a bit of a transformation officer, if you will, really changing the way we work. So, leveraging new tools, there's a lot of tools out there that can change the way we work. For me, it comes a bit naturally because that's always been a focus and passion. I told you about where I started and really trying to do the same in Microsoft Excel.

Now there are tools that make it a lot more accessible, a lot easier for us to look at all of these type of transactional repeatable processes and automate, take work out, and also leverage AI to drive insights and start driving some of this advanced analytics that will also free us up to spend more time sitting with the business, understanding the business, bringing insights and driving strategy and change.

Fantastic, and you've touched on it there, but I think there's a lot of talk at the moment on how the role of the CFO has changed, and I'm not sure that the core components of the strategic ally and so on have changed all that much, the essential parts of what being a great CFO is, remain.

But do you think there are additional skills or qualities that are going to be crucial for future CFOs?

Yeah, you know, maybe I'll elaborate on where I finished off on the last piece, which really is being able to see what we can't really see yet. You know, being able to see around corners, being able to think differently and challenge the status quo and take us into a new direction. So, it's less about just all of the information that we have at hand and having that seat at the table. It's going to be more about seeing what the new trends are and starting to get onto those trends sooner, quicker, being early adopter, being able to take smart risks and, and know that, you know, you can take a few steps forward without knowing exactly where you're going back to the startup type of mentality.

I see more of that happening. I see more questions and dialogue coming in that capacity as well. And I think it's really important that we’re, we’re entering into unchartered territory, specifically with transforming how we work, but also how we leverage the vast amount of information that is out there, the tools that are just coming onto the scene at an extremely rapid pace.

How do we adopt them? How do we take advantage of them? And how do we leverage them to start driving efficiencies throughout the operations, the organisation, to ultimately reduce costs, reduce operational complexity, and get us all focused on the right things. I think that's going to be a critical component as well of what the CFOs look to deliver in the future.

Yes, and not to be sycophantic, but I think given the challenges and evolution that we're all undertaking, that we will see more CFOs like yourself who've got more of a creative vision and more of a kind of a philosophical approach to the role as well, because being curious, being open to new ways of thinking and adapting and galvanising people and a workforce that's rapidly changing, I don't see how you can't need those traits in the future. So that would be what I would add.

And then my final question to you is what advice you'd give to the listeners? As I mentioned, we really want this to be a tool for learning and for inspiration. So, if there's someone listening who's aspiring to be a CFO or just wanting to get ahead on their journey, what advice would you offer them?

Well, first I'll build on your perfect segway. Yes, I do think that that is the direction we're going. You know, what I would say, I would encourage the curiosity, the openness, the open-mindedness to try new things bringing your full self, your authentic self, not being afraid to take smart risks.

And, you know, one of the things that I think is critically important is continuing to coach, develop and help others bring their true selves and align their passions with their work, as well as bring their creative side out. So, I spend most of my time really, you know, working with individuals or teams or, you know, in discussions. I'm not simply providing a direction or providing a decision.

It's mostly a thought process and it's mostly meant to help everyone kind of come together on the same understanding of why we should be going down a certain path or what the vision is. It's less about me determining how to get there. It's really more so just helping the teams understand where we want to go and then letting the experts really determine the pathway to get there and leverage their own experiences, their expertise and their creativity to get us there.

When I look within the finance organisation, there's definitely a strong support and focus on continuous improvement of processes and data and taking manual work out. But it's also about setting a vision and working towards that vision together, upskilling, digital upskilling with new tools and really getting the next wave of leadership prepared to step into that role, as you said, that continues to evolve.

The single greatest pieces of advice that I could give if I look back and what I would tell myself is take those risks, get uncomfortable and know that it's okay and leverage your trusted network and your trusted mentors, they will put you in the right direction.

And I can certainly say I would not be where I am today with the, you know, gratitude that I have for the opportunities that have been given to me if it weren't for the individuals who supported me, coached me, developed me, and gave me the opportunities to step out of that comfort zone and do it. And it simply came down to me saying, yes, okay, let's go.

Amazing. I love that so much. What a wonderful note to end on. But I just wanted to again just highlight something you said, which I think is so important.

Often when people are wanting to get to the next level, they reach out to be mentored and to get their advice from elders, but they forget that there's also like the people coming up behind them that are so important. So, I love that you said that, you should be mentoring at the same time, even at your early stages, you know, speaking with school kids who are thinking about starting a career in your field. It's just so powerful. And it also teaches you as much as I think as it teaches them. So, I love that you said that.

Thank you so much for your time, for your insights and for your candour.

Thank you so much. I appreciate the time today. I really do appreciate the discussion, and I hope you have a wonderful day and let's stay in touch.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Have a great day and I'll speak to you very soon.

Okay. Take care.

Take care, bye-bye.

A very big thank you again to Chad for taking part in our Ask A CFO series and being so candid and open with his own journey. Make sure you subscribe to Ask A CFO wherever you get your podcasts from and stay tuned for our next episodes as we continue to share the journeys of current and former CFOs across the world. Thank you.