It’s Diner Talks with James’ first birthday! To celebrate Tina VanSteenbergen, my badass wife, slid back into the diner booth with me! Tina is a professional women’s empowerment speaker and runs her own women’s conference called Persist.  We started the way we always do, talking late-night foods. The last time Tina was on the podcast she was pregnant, now we have a baby, and I asked her how that feels. We then threw out the best and worst advice we got when she was pregnant. Tina talked about the feeding struggles and other really hard topics that aren’t shared enough with new moms. But how do you know you’re a good parent? Our two very different perspectives were fascinating to hear. Also, we weren’t head over heels in love with our baby the day he was born and that is ok. A big thing we are still dealing with is the loneliness of becoming parents so we chatted about that struggle. Then we took a hard left and got to hear about Tina’s new passion project: Persist: A Badass Women’s Conference. She wonders, are women writing a story that their success is limited? Tina rounded out our time together discussing why, for women, confidence must be a team sport.  What a special one, y’all! Thank you to all of you who helped this fun idea I had stick around for a full year, now on to year 2!

About the Guest: 

I learned too late in my life that women need women. To be successful in the workplace. To feel understood. To help us believe in ourselves. To feel less alone in the world. Women need women. Women deserve strong communities full of empathy, kindness, and empowerment at work, at home, and literally everywhere in their lives. That’s where I come in.

Hi, my name is Tina VanSteenbergen and I help women tear down the walls built between us. My speaking style gives women permission to open up, have honest conversations, and connect. With a combination of authenticity, storytelling, and humor, I’ve been able to help hundreds of thousands of women build relationships with one another, believe in themselves, and take up space at companies, campuses, and organizations around North America.

My work sets my soul on fire. So does a good nap. An excellent pour of bourbon. A beautiful snow. A peaceful and reflective sunset flight. An episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race. A perfectly green avocado. The skyline of New York City. A warm and cheesy mac n’ cheese. A well-written West Wing quote. My husband–James Robilotta, my dog, and a Minnesotan accent, of course

Connect with Tina and learn more:

Website: www.tinaraevan.com

Instagram: https://instagram.com/tinaraevan

About the Host: 

Friends! Here's a somewhat stuffy bio of me:  

I am an author, professional speaker, coach, host, and entrepreneur. My first book, Leading Imperfectly: The value of being authentic for leaders, professionals, and human beings, is available wherever people buy books. I speak internationally to willing and unwilling attendees about authenticity, vulnerability, and leadership. My clients include American Express, General Electric (GE), Accenture, Yale University, The Ohio State University, and many others. As a speaker, I am doing the two things I loves the most: making people think and making people laugh! 

I host my own events multiple times a year. They are 2-day events called Living Imperfectly Live (and sometimes they are 1-day virtual events). They are a space where humans from every walk of life can come together to be part of a community in the pursuit of badassery. The goal is to help attendees start living the life we say we want to live.

Alas, you're here because of an idea I had a number of years ago and didn't think I was good enough to pull it off. I finally acted on it and alas Diner Talks with James was born! As you can see from what I do in my professional life, Diner Talks is aligned with everything I believe in and teach.  If this wasn't dry enough, and you would like to know more info about my speaking, events, or coaching feel free to check out my website: JamesTRobo.com.

Let’s Be Friends on Social Media!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamestrobo

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jamestrobo

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesrobilotta/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/JamesRobilottaCSP

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/JamesTRobo

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Welcome to diner talks with James, slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends. We never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be.

My friends welcome to another episode of diner talks with James. I'm James and I am super pumped to be here with you all, as I always have my friends as I was, always see them as fine. Everything's going well, so far. This is a special episode, y'all for a number of reasons. First off, this is Episode 5252. Now there are 52 weeks in here based on my quick mathematical calculations. And so that would make this the one year anniversary of diner talks with James, y'all. I don't know if I have done anything consistently every week for an entire year. Besides eat burgers. So this is pretty freakin special, y'all. This is a great time and just thanks for being on the journey, y'all. It really means a lot. This has been a fun project. And I just found out this has been listened to in over 51 countries, we got to 10,000 downloads, we got almost four or 5000 people that have unique people that have listened to it. And I you know, those numbers mean a lot. It's really cool. And so thank you for being one of those numbers. It means the world. And as always, if you think other people should be a part of this for year two, it would be special if you shared it with them. This is also a really special episode, because sitting next to me right now is a my wife, Tina van steenbergen. Now you may remember Tina from an earlier episode when she crushed it. This is another episode where Dana crushes it. I assume we haven't recorded it yet. But the thing is, is that Tina Van steenbergen is an outrageous professional speaker. She talks to women about why women need women and how for women confidence should be a team sport. She runs her own women's empowerment conference conference is actually friends called persist. And they are incredible. She runs one for adults in the fall and one for collegiate women in the spring. And this woman has built quite the hive around her hexagon logo. And she is an incredible woman I'm obviously very biased. I'm also obviously very right. She is also the mother to our wonderful soon to be actually as the time when this comes out. He will be eight months old. So shout out to Rome who is hopefully going to sleep through this entire podcast in which case, thank you to the gift of editing. But enough of that my friends. Let's bring her out right now. Tina Van steenbergen Oh wait, you're next to me. We want to bring her out. Hi, when did you get here.

Yeah, no been here the whole time. Oh, elongated, awkward interaction just been sitting right next to you the whole time. Yeah. See previous awkward. Yeah, about introduction. Yeah.

Now is it awkward? Because you're like, Damn, that's true. Damn. Well, that's true.

Yeah, well, that's exactly why I sit there and listen, I'm like, well, he right. I'm amazing. Yeah, that's exactly how it happened.

Yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad. Yeah. That's beautiful. Okay. Tina, the show's called diner talks with James. I think you know that, but

I have heard, heard.

And so one thing that we'd like to do with all of our guests that you and I did not do last time, is I like to start off with learning what is your late night guilty pleasure. Now you're someone who's had the opportunity to travel around the country based in the Midwest, of course, and so you know, maybe it's something you can get at a steak and shake or something like that. There's a couple local diners around here. Shout out to Mickey's was in Mighty Ducks. But But you know, but you have spent time you lived in New York. You lived in Indy. You spent time in the West Coast. You're no stranger for a taco truck. And so you also could crush a waffle house. So I'm curious. When you think about all of your late night options. What is your favorite?

First of all? I don't know why we didn't do this last time. I'm a little offended. I wasn't included in the diner talks trend very beginning. Although broke the trend my love. Okay, I'm still right about ice cold water and ketchup, which I believe we're where we spent our time last time instead of having this conversation. So that's number one. Number two, I have lived several places and tried several things. It was not until I moved to New York, or maybe visited you in New York, that I just Covered dieters. Yes there's a few diners there are a few diners here in the Twin Cities and I'm really proud of you for shouting out Mickey's and its place in the Mighty Ducks much a little turned on right now Mighty Ducks reference Come on my life is Minnesota movie trivia you all know mine. So I'm grateful to you for that. And I've eaten and Mickey several times, but I thought it was sort of, you know, in a movie novelty didn't realize that they were diners. Every other street corner in New York City and the magic that was inside of them. I did not discover those until my late 20s, early 30s. And I was forever changed. Fast Food late at night serves its purpose. Actually. Taco Bell, guilty pleasure kind of gal.

Nice. Where did you Where do you What's your Taco Bell move.

You know, the cool thing about Taco Bell is that you don't have to just look at number three. Like you could but I feel like you're doing it wrong. just feels like a plethora of all ecart options. So some days I want to check in case a dia. Although our nephew would say I'm doing it wrong, and I shouldn't just get the cheese case to do Sure. I think a soft taco supreme is one of the best menu items I talk about

the sour cream. Levels it up.

Take it all the way. I've recently discovered the beefy five layer burrito, which is hard to say without being self conscious. Yeah, for lots of reasons.

It was the title of my second EP.

The title of my memoir, okay that we're doing great. So fast food late at night has its place and serves its purpose but nothing beats a late night diner experience. And what's your late night diner move? I'm a breakfast all day. Kind of human eggs. Fun fact. Eggs are my maybe my favorite food. I crush some eggs. So I would get to eggs over easy over medium fechas the chef back there with sausage. We toast and some avocado on the side if I can. Wow. Very fancy. Wow. And then if I'm really hungry slash maybe have had a few cocktails and maybe get aside a French toast or pancakes.

There you go. There you go. Well, that's awesome. You're definitely a white woman.

Okay. Cheese Sandwich calm down. I don't know. We're mocking the bacon on it. But

yeah, the is no that is classic for a reason a classic breakfast for a reason. And and shout out to you one big difference between you and I men there are many. Just one but is that you are a everything on the plate belongs in a bite together of individual whereas I'm like one at a time. Now everybody just wait your turn. Yeah. Because you're still working very, very hard. This particular control. I don't want anybody taking over anything else.

I also like control which is why very carefully and meticulously build bite. So a little bit of that egg with the yolk with the sausage with the avocado plus the wheat toast. Come on. Yes. We curse in the diner. Yeah,

yeah. Ah, okay, let's go. I'm here for it. We frequently have breakfast for dinner. We shamelessly breakfast for lunch. Yeah, yeah,

my breakfast tacos are had at all times of day in this household. Really? Cuz y'all. I'm making mean scrambled egg facts. Play No jokes as fast as I can with my scrambled eggs.

Yeah. Do you know when you were last on the show? We were going to have a baby. You were pregnant? I don't know if you remember that. Because it does feel like ages ago. And a whole lifetime ago. In some ways, at least for me. Of course, I was the one carrying the baby. So maybe it's a little more relevant for you. But anyway, let's not worry about science right now. But so but we have this really powerful conversation about having a baby, what is it going to be like? What do you want? What's one thing that you hope that baby feels or thinks or knows? Or that you want to teach that child? That was a really beautiful moment. You have since had said, baby, and congratulations. And thank you, and thank you more and more importantly for what you've done for our family now, but it's so interesting, because a year ago, we were dreaming about this moment wrapping up the second trimester. And we're like, what's it gonna be like? How's it going to be? And you're, we're reading all the books and we're learning all the things and you're listening to what not to do when you're expecting blogs and all that kind of garbage. And so what to do when you're expecting me which turned out to be more of what not to do when you're expecting anyway, that's fine. But how does it feel to be on the other side I have it right now. Like, how does it feel to like to put yourself back in that space. And now look at how far we have come?

Ah, surreal is the first word that pops into my head, which is maybe a little cliche, but there are still moments where I go, Oh shit, right. We're parents.

Right? Like someone like calls you a new mom, I had a client call me and say, Tina, I think I have an outdated version of your bio. And I was like, What do you mean? They were like, oh, it doesn't say you're a new mom. Right? I'm a new mom. And that's relevant in my bio. So there's part of it that feels very surreal. That every time I say even when I just looked at you right now and said, Oh, right. We're parents. I had the same moment. But actually, we are. Last time we were doing this. I was touching my stomach making sure he was moving. And now we're like, have a baby monitor hidden in the corner over there to make sure that if something happens, make sure that it's so wild. Because to your point that also feels like a lifetime ago, even though it was sent. But yeah, so I would say that it feels very surreal to be on this side now. And I'm still eight months right? So I'm still adjusting to it.

Yeah, adjusting is the right word. somedays coping, mainly adjusting for you. How does it feel for you? I asked the questions. The next question I have is how does it feel for me? You know, it. Everybody says that has had a child Oh, it changes everything. Oh, everything changes. And in your naive brain, you're like me on everything. Like but like, how's how just like everything that you cannot fathom the idea that everything changes? Because how is that physically possible, emotionally possible? And it has, in fact changed everything? And that is, yeah, that's been overwhelming. It has been inspiring. It has been exciting. It has been sad. And it has been, I would say bond forming. I feel like you and I are closer than we've ever been, even though we don't always see eye to eye and a lot of this stuff like my love for you is deeper. And, and then there are other days where it's angering. And you're like, Okay, so you're tired and you're not sleeping. Let's talk about that choice. Because you're clearly tired. And what's going on here? Bobo, go ahead and close them eyes. And so yeah, there's moments where you're just like, I How could I be doing this so wrong? Yeah, the world sees us and we're doing it right? Because turns out we might be. You really call him booboo. And those moments Yes. That's kind of like when I get cut off in traffic. everybody's name is sweetheart. Oh, yeah, sure, sweetheart. Okay, so yeah, yeah, sweet commodity. Sweet. I'll do whatever you need to do.

Yeah. James ever calls you sweetheart. Listen, not a cop, not a compliment. back any passive aggression. never called me sweetheart. I appreciate that. And that's in my face. Not least not more, I can hear you. Exactly. Yeah. Is wild to think about how much can change. And I think, for us, the change has been compounded. Because yes, Rome changed everything about our life. And 10 months before Rome arrived, everything in our life changed. And not because we saw a positive sign on a pregnancy test. But because COVID took our business out of the knees and grounded us in all of our flights and travels and forced us to sit in the same room at the same time for weeks in a row which had never happened before. So every time I think about how much Rome has changed my life and our collective lives, I just like it's intense to process because it wasn't just Rome. It has been so much in the last year and a half.

Yes, it turns out COVID is real. Who knows right? Shout out to science. Please wear a mask and get vaccinated. Because it still happened

turns out still real and not gone? Nope. We're not in a post COVID era

almost less gone. Turns out numbers one anyway. But let's move on. Before this gets ranty but Yes, you are right. Our world was rocked and so by a number of things last year, and so here's here's a question I have for you is that, you know one thing that people love to give advice on his travel. Another thing that people love to give advice on is weddings. The thing of the people in the world most liked to give advice on is parenting. Everybody's got a thought about what your issue is, especially they find out your new parents, then buckle up, you are getting all of the unsolicited advice from literally everyone from from Barbie and target to your parents, and literally everybody in between now, and so I'm wondering, what was some of the best advice that you heard? And what were some of the worst advice that you heard and stepping into this new journey?

I think some of the best advice that we heard, we got very early on, the advice that was most practically helpful to us, I think, in the beginning was the advice that we were given about our hospitals today about asking to talk to lactation consultants about, you know, you're going to feel terrible, when you let the nurses take your baby to sleep in the nursery for the night. And you're going to feel like you're a bad parent, like you shouldn't let them out of your sight. But those six hours that you will sleep, you will desperately need two days from now. So let them do it because they have it under control. And you need to rest right? So just some of those in the moment when all of the hormones and I just had my body cut open and we're just trying to figure out what just happened and Oh, right. There's a tiny human in the room, like having people say to us, trust me, this is worth your time was so helpful, because I don't know that I would have made those decisions. Had we not been encouraged to make those decisions. So that that early on advice about how to survive the hospital experience and make it work for you, though,

some of the best that was some of the best that we got. Yeah, to be a favorite piece of advice where babies are adult proof. Yeah. Right. Like, you have to work hard to be a bad parent, especially in the beginning like you like you really, you got a try. And, and so that was kind of that was somewhat relieving. And then also a buddy of ours. also said, Make sure when you're thinking about naming the baby, that you pick a name that you can yell easily.Because no one wants

to be like magdeleine right? Like it's taking too long. Right? You too many syllables. Deep mag mag guns already in the street. Mm. Yeah.

Practicing yelling it right out of the garage and practice yelling at your child

Get the timbre and timber. whichever one it is right. 100%

I also love that piece of ice. We're just not practically used it yet. Not really yelling at the tiny human at this moment. But I believe that the advice will come in handy.

Yeah, I'm sure 100% Yeah, yeah. So So yeah. So then what are some of the worst advice that you think? Did you get any bad advice? Or frustrating advice? Or like, Yeah,

I don't know if I got a single piece of bad advice. But I think advice that is actually judgment. Okay. Is the the dark side though. Oh, wow. You're really gonna do that? I really wouldn't. Or Oh, you're learning to fall asleep in your arms. clingy babies? Like, yeah, where it's not actually advice. It's judgment. And even if it's not intended to be judged, judgy it still feels judgy especially when you are in one of the most insecure places you'll be as an adult. And you're already afraid and then to and as we've talked about, we've not shared it yet. But one of the hardest parts about new parenting for us has been decision fatigue. Yes, he did make every freaking decision about this person's life. Yeah. She will put on a short sleeve one day or a long sleeve ones. They probably are long sleeve ones the amongst the ones the inside the swaddles are going to be is this one too tight? This was too loose.

Let me be the old really swaddle one more time. The sound machine too high. Is it too low? If it's too low? It's not going to work. Is it dark enough in here? No, no, if it's dark enough in here, we should probably close the door all the way but then I can hear all the way. But wait, he's gonna sleep next to us for how long? Should you sleep next to us? Is he breathing? Yes, he's breathing. Is he breathing? Yes, he's really breathing. Does he have socks on? They were socks and sweat. Like, every single second is another choice to make? Yes. And it just gets so overwhelming. Especially when you are exhausted to be making all the choices and then to not know. Yeah, I don't know if he needs a long sleeve or short sleeve Wednesday, and when you're that new, I don't know if it matters, because every decision feels like it matters. It don't matter. He gonna be just fine but like it feels like it matters. So you're already on edge, tired, overwhelmed, hormonal, all the things. You're already in those places. And then people make little comments that are supposed to be advice but are Actually, judgment. Yeah. And it makes you even more self conscious and even more for me Rayji because I finally made this decision and I will end your life. If you're going to show up, try to make me feel badly about it. I don't have any time. So I don't know that I got a specific piece of bad advice, but anybody who judges new parents who are just trying to do their best can take a walk. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. I don't know if there's one bad thing. But lots plenty of thoughts. Yes. People like to come in with the thoughts. And they try to phrase it as advice and then fail miserably. Yeah, yeah. 100%. Now, it's, it's awesome. Because you teach women now that confidence should be a team sport, you're talking about women's empowerment. You talk about body image, you talk about all this kind of stuff. And then you just went through what many would consider one of the most badass things that a woman could do. And I think what we also learned is that, even though we have a lot of friends around us that have who have been through it, that have gone through it, there was still plenty of things that were never you were never told. And so in some ways, in some ways, it's like, when do you tell somebody these things because you can't tell them right? When they become pregnant? You can't, you can't tell them before they're getting pregnant. Because that's just that's probably effective. That's more effective birth control than the Orlando airport. But, like so. And so like, I think the the release time of some of these things is also interesting. And then most people just kind of hold on. And whenever people do share, it's always doom and gloom stories of like, you know, what happened to her over in Iowa? Right? And so like, Oh, well, we had just heard a story about so and so. And it's always just doom and gloom stuff now. And so I'm wondering, as, as, as a woman who is went through it, still going through it, let's be honest, we have a newborn. But like, thinking about the way that other women could help each other during this time, what do you think you would do differently? Now that you have gone through this? And now as other, you know, a friend of ours has told us that they were pregnant? And so like, when when did you tell people some of these things? Or do you not? And like what was that experience? Like?

The whole time I was pregnant, and I was learning these different things that were happening to my body, things that I didn't know were going to happen? Didn't matter how much research I'd done. There's so much about it that is shrouded in mystery, which is absurd. I was so frustrated, because I was like, What is my body? Like? How do I know that this is what's what's happened? How did nobody tell me this? And then you talk to people that were pregnant, like my mom was pregnant A long time ago, and you say this, they're like, oh, and this happened? She said, Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. That's the worst. You're like, goal. Thank you, this is really helpful. And then you have the baby. And there's so much that you didn't know and that you like, for me the example I will use, I don't know, I had no idea how hard feeding was going to be, regardless of what your feeding journey is breastfeeding formula a combination. Regardless. It's hard. Because you're, you don't know how much the child's actually getting, especially if they're splitting up on a regular basis, and you don't know how much they're supposed to get. And if they come out jaundice like several babies do, then you're even more concerned about calories in. And every two hours, you try to feed this baby who doesn't know how to feed itself yet. So it's just it's a lot. And nobody said anything to me about how hard it was gonna be. We will talk about how breastfeeding was important. And we're trying but the stress of is my baby eating enough? Is he going to stay alive? was never I don't know if it could have been right. So for a long time, I was really frustrated. I was like, why did nobody tell me about this? This is such garbage. I don't think anybody talks about it a because of this, like the deepest pits of survival that I've ever been in, of like, we're just trying to survive and wait, you know what I don't have time to do write it down. Like what I should have done is like write a blog on top of that shit. Like, I'm not gonna sit down and be like, Dear future mom. Let me tell you about my feeding jerk like five

days. postpartum log one,

there are women who do that. And those women are incredible, because they are not me. My brain was not capable of processing. And so it was really frustrating. And to go back to the least in judgment comment, even if somebody had tried to say Tina feeding your baby is going to be really hard if you're when you're that insecure and that overwhelmed. Now, your brain starts to be like, Well wait, is it hard because I'm doing it wrong. And then you start to write so what I have learned to do and whether this is helpful or not, is initially I wanted to every time a new person in my life came forward and said they were praying I want to be like, Oh my god, sit down, get a pen. I have so much to tell you. But that's not helpful because everybody has their own insecurities. Everybody has Their own fears. And so what I have chosen to do instead and I really hope that it has been helpful to the people that I have done it for, is to reach out and say, I will tell you everything, I will tell you completely unedited versions, we will talk about cracked nipples, we will talk about C sections, site wound healing, we will talk about vomit, we'll talk about literally, anything you want to talk about. At any point, you need somebody, I will give you the real answers, I promise. Ask when and if you're ready. And that feels purposeful, because I do want to offer help and guidance if it's helpful and actually guiding. And I don't want to just dump my shit all over you and your motherhood journey. And so it feels like that's the middle ground. Yeah. And I saw something on Instagram the other day that said, I'm so proud to be a part of the generation that is demystifying motherhood. And that spoke deeply to me that there was just so much like, you're gonna hold your baby in your arms, and everything's gonna be perfect, and you're gonna feel more whole than you've ever felt. If that was your journey, get it's this cheers to you, that was not my journey. And so to be able to be a part of even in my little interpersonal pockets, of making it all feel more real and less shrouded in mystery feels really purposeful. Because everyone did that for me. I am so grateful for and I would love to give that energy back out to new moms.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a little bit of like, in sharing a whole bunch with somebody. You are, in some ways, like kind of trying to write their story unintentionally. But it could feel like that, like you don't know what kind of experience I'm going to have or you don't know where I'm at. You don't know, like you brought up you brought the word trauma, right? You don't know what trauma I have had. Trauma I will have. And so like don't put don't put your stuff on me or Yeah, there's there's a whole is a whole piece of it, where a lot of it is like you just need to go through it. Yes. And, and that's not to say that don't answer questions, and don't reach out for sure. But I'm saying like, there's, there's still a piece of this, that even if we had gotten all that information, even having all that information, I don't know if we would have made any of this easier, smoother. Or any. There's a few there's a few like minor things about my like, you know, like learning what anesthesia does to you, right? Like and your how your body or your particular body reacts to anesthesia. Right? That would have been cool to know ahead of time. But how the hell would we have known that we wouldn't have now and so like, those kinds of things are? You just I don't know, you just got to go in. And there's something about the the adrenaline of the moment that just like makes you show up. Yes. And that is real. It's really beautiful and badass to watch women do and and those in heterosexual couples, like, you know, dads do it too, and show up. If they're if they're doing the right thing and recognizing the moment.

We and I think, yes, everything you just said. And it's already scary. Right? As I was pregnant, and we were getting closer and closer, I was afraid. And the most helpful phrase I heard, which was a little condescending over time, but was still 100% true women do this every day, women's bodies give birth in the world every day. And so like, my body should be able to do this, like Tina, it's gonna be okay. You're not that you're not special. But like you don't I mean, like you have a assigned female at birth body. And you can do this. And so that was helpful in calming, but it's scary to become a new parent, as a woman or as a man, obviously, as a woman. There's physical things happening immediate, but it's terrifying. And so if somebody had been like, Oh my god, are you ready for what's gonna happen when you have a C section, I've been like, stop talking, I'm scared, I don't need you to give me any more reason to be afraid. And so balancing the what is helpful and helping people prepare, and what is just making it harder to wrap your brain around, feels really important. And I think regardless of gender identity, what has been cool, and you've talked about this, I think on another episode, your instincts kick in. Right? Regardless of biology doesn't matter. When somebody puts that tiny human in your arms, your brain switches, and you just start being a parent. And as long as you keep caring about that kid and trying to do right by them, I think we can all be parents, regardless of our sexual identity or gender identity. It just instincts kick in and hormones change, and it happens very fast. And we are all capable of it. Sure. I think it's something we've learned.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I agree. This question is gonna make you uncomfortable. Cool. How do you know you're a good parent. I Because you are By the way, just in case you're wondering, thank you great. But how do you like it? How do you know it? Um, thank you. I believe you.

And I know it. Because I love him fiercely. And because I, I know in my bones that nobody knows my kid, like we know, our kid. And so it is, I don't know, if I'm doing everything right. Most days, there are plenty of moments where I'm not doing it right, where we don't put the right ones on or where I'm like, I'll set this bowl of food down right in front of him, and it'll be fun. And then five minutes later, it's literally everywhere, including the dog, stuff like that, like that was not good. That was not the right decision to make in that moment. So it is not a matter of doing it, right. But it is a matter of doing it from a place of love, every time and trusting my instincts that especially in this phase of his life, where he cannot speak for himself, that's our job is to make sure that someone is taking care of him and that we are advocating for him until he can do it himself until we can teach him to do it himself.

And so I just take the job very seriously. And I have long said in my life, don't fuck with my people. And I mean that deeply. And now that we have a child, I don't know how to more emphatically say don't fuck with my people. Like, don't just don't, because I I will go to bat for a lot of people in my life that I care about. But for this person, that is our responsibility to love. I will go all of the way. And I think that is something that makes me feel like a good parent.

Yeah, yeah, we are proudly helicopter parents right now. snowplow parents, wherever they call it. But yeah, a new name next week. Sure, sure. And I don't feel ashamed of it. I really don't know this is like exactly what you said. This is the time when someone who cannot advocate for themselves and barely knows up from down. And like, yeah, this is this is the moment for sure.

Like he's been sick for a while now. Roma's had illness after illness this summer. And there are moments where the pediatrician is looking at you or your parents or someone's looking at you being like, He's fine. And my brain is like, No, he's not. And he doesn't even know he's not fine, because he's six months old. And he's like, smiling and laughing but like, I know you have a temperature and I know you have a coffin. I know those things are normal. And like, I don't care what you think, stranger person? I don't know. You're not his mom. I am. And I'm telling you, he's not okay. And I will tell you, I will show up at your office every day and tell you he's not okay. And so you help me make him okay. And I don't I feel zero shame or guilt in that department.

Yeah. How do you know you are a good parent? Because you are.

Thank you. I will try to hear that.

I think you know, some of the ways that I know I'm a good parent, or it's funny the way it's still the way different parts of your life carry into this where I know I'm a good parent, when other people tell me I am. Right, because sometimes I don't. I'm not able to can't hear for myself. And so is hearing from somebody else's powerful. I, there are there moments where and this is not this is not a bar that I am proud of. But there's moments where it's like, Hey, you know, I haven't heard a comment from you in a while that I've maybe did something wrong or not that you're like, hounding me. You never you don't do that you're not a nagging individual. But like, it's just like, Hey, I think you know, team has just been kind of like complimenting me for a while. So I think I'm on a good streak right now. Right? And like, that's not such a way to measure something, but it's sometimes the way I measure it. And also, the way that he looks at me is pretty awesome. Right? We're like, you know, the he likes me. He's excited when I'm around. And we know now that we can finally make him laugh. Boy, did he make us earn that as a solid month and a half after the doctor said he should have been. That's a tough audiences around everywhere. Man thought zoom is hard. But this was the only live person audience that we had for a year and a half. We couldn't get them to laugh. What did But, but still, but like, I think some of those moments where he just like, you know, looks up and smiles at you, I think those, those are the moments where it's like, hey, you're I know you're excited that I'm here. And that's, that's a weird thing for me, it's like, you know, validations are really powerful drug, it's by far my favorite drug that I've ever taken. And I encourage everybody to use it, you know, probably try to figure out what to do create it internally. But anyway, I'll work on that. It's still like that, that a power of external validation is something that still drives me. And so those moments of him, you know, just like flopping on DNS and laying there for a second longer than he would, or you know, some of those kind of moments where he laughs or just you just you walk in the room and he smiles. Now, like those, those are moments where I'm like, Yo, this dude's glad I'm around now, which is, which is pretty cool.

Yes. I genuinely believe you are his favorite thing right now. I don't. He smiles at you more than he smiles at that cheap plastic bear that he can take out of his mouth, which is impressive, because he freaking loves that bear. I guess. He loves you more for dollars. And, yes, that external validation might feel like that's not the way to measure. Right? I don't know if that's the right way to feel as a parent. But for me, that's when everything changed for me. Right? So going back to the everything changed, or the second you put our baby in our arms in the hospital. I've never known love like this. And there's so much of that on Instagram, right? There's just so much of like, in the hospital I met the love of my life and everything will be different forever. And I'm so I'm so destined to be in like, so much connection and love and profound, overwhelming. Whatever, motherhood parenthood in the hospital. And I don't, I didn't see a lot of this, which is why it feels worthy of our time to say that. That is not what happened. I have wanted to have a baby for a very long time. And every time I looked him in the hospital, I was so overwhelmed that he was there. Like he was actually physically existed in the world and I could touch him. More than anything, I felt like a lot of responsibility. And not like, Oh my God, I've never done love like this. Like I've never known a job like this, like this is my job

work. This is one of the bosses seriously.

And now I have to like making sure that he was okay. Right felt like so much responsibility. And yes, I love him. He's my child. But those first for me, eight weeks it took because at eight weeks, I will the moment will be frozen in time. It was a several moments over a couple of days, where it was clear that he had learned how to smile socially. And he was smiling because I walked in the room and smiling at me and not because he just farted, like, genuinely like oh my gosh, that's my mom. And for me the switch flipped. And all of a sudden it became I am so in love with this tiny thing. And I would do anything for you not just I need to make sure that you're okay all the time. And so that was when that like external validation that I recognize you or my parents feel that changed everything for me. Because when you have this time, the newborn life is like you just give and give and give everything you've got literally for women is physically like everything I've got goes into keeping this kid alive. And he doesn't know you're there. Right? He's not cognizant that he can't connect with you

literally can't see you later, while

it's at that moment when he could identify that I was his mom. And I could see that that brought him joy. That changed everything for me. And that is when I started to feel that profound, overwhelming. Love for this tiny person.

Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. And it's interesting, you know, one of the one of the hardest parts of this experience so far for you and I as a couple for me. I think this is hard for you as well. But I won't put words in your mouth. Is that that falling in love with Rome process happened at different paces? Yes. And I had done a lot of research and knew damn well that that it frequently takes men longer to feel attached to their baby, right like you You literally had a nine month 10 month headstart. Um so there's that and then there's also the the emotional connection when it comes to feeding as stressful as it was when it worked is really beautiful. And that moment where you're just you know, he's looking up in your eyes and you're looking down in his and like you're literally giving him life. So, right like there's there's a lot of that where it makes sense why men frequently will not feel as connected to their child. And I remember pulling you aside and having a really tear filled conversation sometime after it was right around like the the, I think was around the three month mark two or three month mark was right out it was after it started spiraling socially issue. And, and I remember just being super scared that you would resent me or not love me as much or anything, not judged me because I was not falling in love with our babies as quickly as you were. And I felt like that made me a shitty person that made me someone who is like, Oh, here we go, James, all your fears of being too selfish as a parent, here they are. And you're just proving yourself right to look at you Good job, you called it right and you, you write the story, and then you find ways to reinforce it. And that's what I was doing now, which was not healthy. But that is what I was doing is like look actively looking for ways to reinforce my fears. And, and so that was super, that was a super tough moment, for me a very vulnerable moment for me where I was like, Yo, I'm not there. But I want you to know that I want to be there. And then I'm not going anywhere. And I'm gonna keep doing it. And I know it'll, it'll eventually happen. And if it doesn't happen until the kid starts talking, then I'm still going to be here, I'm not going anywhere. But if it happens sooner, then that's great, too. But I was you know, I started to get really scared. Because what you were just talking about was really beautiful. When we think about this concept of Love, love, we think about all the beautiful sides of love, and and what it means to love someone. But responsibility is absolutely a piece of love. Right? I as you know you as you as my partner, I have a responsibility to to make you happy. And when you are not happy to be there for you in whatever way you need. I believe I have a responsibility to push you and not allow you to be complacent in life. I have responsibility to bring you joy. And I am not a happy wife, happy life prescriber. I think that phrase is bullshit and a little bit archaic. But yes, I'd push that does not mean that your happiness doesn't matter to me. And so, but responsibility is not sexy love. And so maybe I was in love with him earlier. But it just looked a lot like responsibility that and there wasn't responsibility that I craved or looks forward to as a matter of fact, that was like, why do we make this choice again, we actively chose we tried, we put our hair through hell, we went through loss, we went through another, you know, year and a half of trying and now all the stress of month a month and what's going on with the where the levels and yada yada, yada, what day is it? You know, all that kind of stuff. And like, we chose this, we worked for this, we cried over this. We argued over this we you know embraced over this. Now like Why? What? What did we do? And yeah, so it's hard to see that as being called Love in that moment. But maybe it was

a Gen it definitely was and the challenging part. And that's why this conversation matters, right? Because the narrative is, if you don't feel purposeful every time you change a diaper. If you don't feel love every single time like than what your bad parent, even now I'm fighting the impulse to continue to say a few more times. We loved our child, y'all. We loved him from the very beginning. We loved him, it was just hard for us to adjust. But I don't have to qualify. Like, I don't owe y'all that. And we live in a world where it feels like we're supposed to say but I love him. It's really hard. But I love of course you love him. Of course you love him. Right. And I don't we don't have to explain that to anybody. And I think it's a matter of acknowledging that like it is to your point, the very beginning. It changes everything. And it is the hardest thing I've ever done. I don't want to speak for you. But to give up the control to give up the freedom to get like there's so much that comes with it that we just pretend goes away because of all the love. And I think those things can exist at the same time. I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. I think it can be really freakin hard. And we can still love him. I think we can be responsible and overwhelmed by that responsibility and still love him. And I think having that creating more spaces to discuss that it is not just an instant light switch. And all of a sudden every single second of new parenthood becomes purposeful is necessary because of course you loved him. It just didn't feel like we were doing it right. Because everything else you've seen on the internet was that it was supposed to be pure joy. And I totally understand why you were concerned that I would judge you because the world gets judgy about it and I'm very good. grateful that I had those first eight weeks of feeling very similarly. Because otherwise I might have judged you. If I had immediately fallen head over heels in love and felt purposeful on every single second of parenting, then I might have looked at you and been like, that would have been so hard. So I am so grateful that it took me some time to because I was able to look at you that day and say, I don't judge you, I totally understand. And just like it happened for me, I think that it will happen for you. And we just have to be patient and wait for it. And keep showing up for him the best we can and keep talking about it, which is what we tried to do. But it feels like you're doing something wrong, if you acknowledge that it's incredibly hard, and require so much of you. And that feels like we're supposed to. Because we wanted to baby so badly because we worked so hard for it. Because there's so many people who don't get this incredible gift that we've been given. It feels like you're not allowed to acknowledge and it's also really freaking hard. And it is really freaking hard. And all those other things can be true,

right? Yeah, I completely agree with you. And one of the things that I think you would agree about it feeling so hard is that it also it feels very lonely. You know, out here in Minnesota, we don't we don't have the biggest social groups. And you know, this summer, they've started to expand as mass mandates got a little looser around here and grateful to start to try to finally build community. But you know, I'm one of the hardest things for me was that I'm, however many 1000s of miles away from New York where my family is, and I'm going through this huge thing. And, and I was like I just don't have them there at at any point in time not. And just just the power of proximity. It's not like they would show up, because I would ask them to show up every single day, they would they would show up if I asked but, but like still just that power of proximity, sometimes with loved ones, I was going through something so no, and everybody that I really cared deeply about felt so far away. Now and especially as, as I'm in my own head about everything now. And so but there's that loneliness also were like, you know, we have some friends that, you know, that we literally couldn't talk to about this. And just, you know, for some valid reasons for sure. But like, it was really hard to be like, Oh, man, you know, you can't even bring this up and talk about it. And and you felt like eggshells and like, you know, like I have one buddy who and eight months has asked me two questions about about the boy. Right? And and part of it's like they don't have they don't have kids yet. And so it's like, it's just not on their radar that they need to be asking about it. And that's also a thing that makes you feel super isolating, too. Is that like we are, it feels like you're going through it alone. Nick is, especially as a brand new parents, because everything is new, and how could anybody else understand it? And how is anybody else ever done this? And so I don't know that that was something that was really hard for me. Fortunately, you know, you found a few moms pretty early on, that you can have some conversations with. But I know this has been fairly isolating for you. And I think that's one of the hardest that in our journey. That's something that you and I think agreed with, is that that has been something that I don't know how could have looked different. And I'm super grateful for your family. And, but But still, that was one of the harder parts of it all.

Yeah. And I think continues to be in its own short way. Right. Like, in the beginning, going back to you being a good dad, by the way. We did everything together. Every feeding we did together. Right? I because I was healing from a C section. I didn't change a diaper for the first two weeks of his life, right? Like, every two hours, we were sitting in his nursery trying to feed him and we kept showing up and doing it together. And I think that was really helpful and also got to a place that was completely unsustainable, because we could not stay awake and keep functioning right, we had to start to divide and conquer. But there was for us to try to fight that loneliness. There was solidarity in let's just continue to fight together. Right? And and that was really powerful and helpful. And we were still having very different experiences. And so like, I'm so grateful that you would sit in that room with me. But what I was doing trying to fight with that baby on my body was very different than what you're trying to do put a nipple in his mouth on a bottle, right? Like it's just different. And so yes, it was challenging. It is challenging to be a parent and to try to find your parent pockets. And now I understand why pre COVID there were like, mommy groups, like you'd go to be in a room with a bunch of women who were all 789 months pregnant and you would meet each other and have coffee and go on dates and like exchange contact information so that it didn't feel as lonely and scary, but we had a baby in COVID times. So that wasn't a thing. And even in our we did virtual parents classes, and we were trying to like, those people look like okay, they answer a question. We got to get their email address once you send them a DM makeup laughter coffee records back, do they like live music as no question on live music like we're like, trying to orchestrate zoom friendships with these strangers we've literally never met and only know that you're having a baby, somewhere in the proximity of that we are having a baby. And turns out, people didn't find that very, like warm and fuzzy. They didn't want to just like be friends with us immediately after meeting It sounds so weird. So it was a, it was challenging, because to your point, we have several friends who don't have kids. And whether that's I'm the first in many of my friends circles to have kin. And so I just have a lot of friends who haven't yet or don't want them. And so who care and love to a certain extent, but can only understand so much and don't want to hear you talk about all of the things. You have a bunch of friends and family who have had kids for a while. And so they are not in the trenches, and they're like looking at me like yeah, that sucks. Yeah, that was terrible. Good luck, buddy. Good luck.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, that was terrible.

Yeah, that sucks. Um, and especially having been members of the fertility struggling community. I'm so Cognizant to my other friends who have been trying to have a baby. I'm so aware of how much that can be triggering to hear about mom to have me complain or process Parenthood. While you, it's all you want. And that's so hard. And so having empathy made us I think, even more cautious in our friendships and relationships with people that we knew or trying, because it's so hard. And so it's just feels like, all you want to do is talk about it, because it's so overwhelming. I'm an external processor. So I'm like, I have to talk about it, or it doesn't make sense. But where do you talk about it? And so I had one sorority sister, who she and I worked together, maybe 10 years ago, but we've continued to follow each other on social media. And she was due like 10 days before we were. And she and I just started dming. Like, in the middle of the night when we were up alone, or what have we got a couple frantic tear filled phone conversations be like, I can't believe this is my life, just like needed. And when we are not close friends, I've never met her husband. We're not gonna fly to see each other. But like, in that moment, there was this pure sisterhood solidarity of like, Listen, you are not alone. You are not crazy. And then I was able to then give that gift to a few other people who had a baby Just a couple months after one of my closest friends from grad school had a baby two months after week or month and a half. Yeah, Kennedy six months younger than six weeks into the room. And so Hannah will be like, Did this really happen to him? Like, Oh, yes.

Let me tell you what works. Here's this resource. Or I'll be like Tetons kicking my ass, and she's like, oh, what should I do? And so it's, it's crazy how connected you can feel to the people who are in the trenches with you. But it's all virtual right now.

There is no, there's no one physically in this trench with us. And there hasn't been for the eight months that Rob has been alive. And that, to your point has been very challenging. Being here, and having my family president has been so helpful. Absolutely. And I'm so grateful. And I think it's still hard to not have to not be in the trenches with other people.

Yeah, yeah. I agree with you, believe it or not. And, you know, you started talking about so the powerful there, we talk about sisterhood. And we're gonna take a soft right right now. And I just, I'm grateful for your vulnerability, always Tina, and thanks for sharing what you have on here. And, you know, one thing that we talked about last time you were on was being a badass entrepreneur, running your own business, growing it yourself. And, and that's been really special. And during. And during quarantine, we also talked about how you and I approached it very differently, but then wound up at the same spot. And we both had some cool things to show for it. Right, I created this podcast, and a couple other things and and you created a women's conference. Now because you made the decision that women need to gather and build confidence together. Now right as a phrase, you famously say as a confidence is a team sport for women now and so that you created this conference called persist a badass women's conference. And I would just love to hear like what what was the impetus behind like, you know, you already go around and you speak to individuals around the country. Why what was this level up? What what what was it that like, you know, what, I want to create something where I can essentially control you know, an experience that these women deserve to have together to really curate that confidence creation. Whoa, okay, crushed that alliteration.

alliteration is indeed sexy is indeed sexy. Ah, yes, I did we did. We work with an incredible human who is integral to our development process shout out to our so he's we language a lot around here because literally couldn't do any of the things we do without words. So yes, we create a process. And I just First of all, I love the name of it every time I say it, I get excited about it because it's just perfectly on brand to who I am in the world. And I it just gets me excited, it's a good thing I want to go to persist a badass women's conference. Yeah, I want to go, let's go. I'm ready. It's Um, so that brings me joy. Um, I think the creation of persist came from two different places at the same time. And one of them was in COVID, we didn't know what was going to happen to our business, it was so scary to watch all those gigs get cancelled, and to not know if we were going to continue to be speakers and continue to own and run a business. And our collegiate clients continued to reach out to us and say, We need some help. And we, we think you're the right person to help us. And that was so powerful, that they trusted us in those dark, scary times to do virtual programming that none of us really knew if it was going to work. And so I've been working for college aged women for a very long time. And this was just wanted to like do something for them. And not a me come to your campus, and you only get access if you have this zoom account, but just like, I'm going to do this because I, I genuinely believe that you need it. college age women, I genuinely believe that you deserve it. And you have done so much for me, and I'd like to give to you, especially after trusting me and all of the covet. So that was a really big part of it. And the other part was going back to the loneliness and the missing of the community is, you know, one of the cool things that we get to do as entrepreneurs in the world is create what we wish existed. And especially in the loneliness, of pregnancy, of new motherhood, of being entrepreneurs of being stuck in your house for a year, right? Like there was so many compounding moments of loneliness, that just creating community, and letting women come together and build those teams that are necessary to feel genuinely confident in the world and helping them not even helping it creating the space to allow them to do what we are wired to do, which is lean on each other. And sometimes we just need a safer, warmer, curated space to do that. And I needed that I want that. And so to be able to create it to create what I was missing, create what I don't see in the world was the motivation to do it, even postpartum. It's like, I don't know why we're doing this is a lot of work. And I'm tired already. But like, let's go. Because I think having a child and all that loneliness taught me how important it is.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I still I still cannot believe that you and Laura pulled this off postpartum. Right, like it was in May. Rome was born on New Year's Eve.

Well, it was originally supposed to be in March. And then pastina and Laura, hi, five, pastine and Laura, were like, maybe we shouldn't try to pull that off in March. And then moved into the first weekend of June and June. That was, yeah, that was a game changer. And being able to pull it off, was really special. It's one of the things I have been most proud of professionally in the last couple of years. It's really friggin cool. And it was really special. It was virtual, obviously, has its limitations, but there was some really special energy and community created that those over those two days. It was really it genuinely was badass.

Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah, it was. Yeah. And it's, it's got to be so interesting to I don't know, like it's some point every, like, leadership matters. And at some point, someone takes responsibility. Someone has an idea and someone wants to build, like, lean into it and create and curate and like, inspire others to come along read this leadership. And the fact that you had the leadership chutzpah, really, as you as you've often said, classic man steenbergen very much. But right like that you have this leadership to really do to get it done was was incredible, and it speaks to how much it matters to you. How many people showed up. speaks to how much it matters to the outside world. And how many people wanted to show up how many people are like how many adult women reached out to you. And we're like, Yo, this is great. This is collegiate women. But like, don't forget about adult women to like, we're still going through some stuff also, right, like, and. And so it's fascinating to see that transition. And you as well as you start to try to think about how you're going to expand, persist. But

I'm sorry that it's just so overwhelming. Because putting it out was one of the most vulnerable things I've ever done professionally, yes, we put something new out into the world. It's scary, right? Like my business without persist is successful. And in the tiny world in which I work, I have a good reputation, I do good work. And I have good relationships with my clients, like I don't stress. I mean, I stress about the business, I want to be successful, I want to be meaningful, but like, my business is successful. I don't need to do anything else. And so then it'd be like, Well, why don't I create this whole other thing that I think matters a lot, but I'm not actually sure if anybody else will give a shit about and then hope and like put it out on the internet and hope people care is really scary. It was so it felt so vulnerable that day, I watched the video and watch the conference. I remember I saw you at like 11am. And you were like, have people watched it. And I was like, edgy, and cold. And I was like I don't know. And you were like, What? Is it not going? Well? I was like, I don't know, because I couldn't look? Yeah, like I don't want to look because what if nobody's one of literally three people have liked it in the four hours it's been live. What if this is an epic failure? And why did I make myself vulnerable to an epic failure? And then turns out, people cared and watch the video and registered for the conference. And then yes, several of adults asked, well, hang on, is there an aversion? Can I go if I'm not in college? Yeah. And it was so overwhelming, and powerful and affirming that something that I felt needed to exist in the world, right, aligned with what other people needed to exist in the world. And so that has been led to the growth of persists, which was persist college happen to this spring, it was really powerful and special. And now we need to do persist for non college age women. And so that's going to happen this fall, November 6, and seventh micro calendars. lugs. So we're gonna do that for adult women and see what that feels like. And I think it's gonna be really special. And then we're gonna try to figure out what can happen with persist college in the future. Ideally, we do it twice a year one for specifically college women and one for women of all ages, backgrounds and vibes. And

but it's interesting, because you were surprised. You were surprised that not not the success. You can you can hold on that. But you've been surprised for a few years that add a lot of the conferences that you spoken at where there happened to be maybe alumni members, or there's board members of the organization, that collegial places that you've spoken that like in the lineup to meet you afterwards. And thank you, we're talking about error. We asked you if you could speak somewhere else in that lineup is often like 5050 adults to collegiate women. Meanwhile, the audience was like 95 5%. Right. And and so you were shocked to learn that your messaging resonated with adult women, which is fascinating for me to hear, because I First off, I teach what I believe I need to hear. Sure. And so you I don't believe that you are teaching just what Tina, who was in college needed to hear? Sure. I think you were also teaching what Tina 20 to 2021 needs to hear. And so what what was it about having those adult women like why what why was that so surprising to you, because you write a story that your success is limited, right? Like,

you're good at this in this way in this box in this phase of time. That's what you're good at. Right? teen even saying a lot of my business is successful is impressive for me to now be able to say out loud, so it took me a very long time to be able to say that and to say it without feeling uncomfortable about it. But even then I would qualify it in any other room. I speak to college age women specifically on these kinds of campuses, specifically about this messaging and specifically in this energy that really makes it relevant.

Right, like, it's really easy to write the story that I'm only successful because I've niched myself a certain way or because these are the clients that keep booking me and so, right like, I don't know, I think very recently, I've been able to say I'm a successful speaker and not I'm a successful college speaker, but it starts to feel like that's the reason you were successful is because of these three limitations. As opposed to where you are and what you do for the world, makes you feel successful. And so it's really validating, to know that it's not just about the only that the small market we serve, right? It's not just about that it's about my message resonates and is relevant for more reasons than the market in which I have built my career. And so that I think, just like it took me a long time. I mean, you were there from the beginning, when I quit my full time job to start speaking on my own. It took years for me to be comfortable saying, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a successful business person. I'm a successful speaker. And just like that took me years, I think, getting to the point where I can say, I'm a successful speaker. In whatever market I happen to be serving, I think that'll take me some time. And I don't think that's a bad thing. Because I don't think it's self deprecation. I think it's, I mean, maybe some humility, but most more than anything, it's learning. I'm really glad I didn't just wake up. I'm like, I'm good at this shit. So who wants to listen to me talk about it today. It's been really powerful for me to learn as I grow. And as I move forward, to learn consistently, what I'm good at. And I'm really glad that didn't just turn on like a light switch for me, because I think that makes me really grateful and hungry. So for persist to be successful, makes me excited. But not. But like, excited to keep learning and growing about what I can do next. And that I'm glad I'm really grateful to be learning those lessons.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's super powerful. And I admire you for it. I think, also, we as humans, need to do things just before we're ready. And I think you launched this conference, just before you were ready, you launched yourself into a speaking career just before you were ready. And I think that's so important. Because if we wait until we are ready, we are We will wait for a very long time, and and potentially never, right? Like, when are we ever if we waited until we were ready to have a child. Right? If we waited until we were ready to own a house, and we waited until we were ready to you know, whatever, right? Like insert live in Italy for a month, whatever, right? And so like those kinds of moments, it's like, you've gotta we recognize that we learn how to swim after we got in the pool, not before. So sometimes you just got to get in it. And it's really awesome to see the way that you've done that. And it's also okay, that you didn't see it. That does not make the people who did see it before you wrong.

No. And that's the whole point that confidence is a team sport, right? Because we don't live in a world where I can see every good thing about me, because we don't live in a world where we are taught to look in the mirror and pick out all the wonderful things about yourself. No, we live in a world where we are taught to look in the mirror and be critical of yourself to see every negative thing anybody has ever said about you, those sentences that somebody told you when they like, elementary school playground, when someone called you stupid or fat or whatever, and it will like stick in your brain like a splinter for the rest of your life. Right. So like, that's what we see when we look in the mirror. And I'm not that doesn't that's not my fault. That doesn't mean I'm weak. That doesn't mean I don't have confidence that mean, that doesn't mean I have no self worth. It just means that in our culture, that is the way we as humans, but especially women in our culture aren't taught to look at themselves, we can't always see our magic and our light. But we can see it in other people. And every single one of us has a person in our life, we think is dope. And they have no idea how cool they are. Because they can't see what we can see. Which is why we need to be on a team of people who can help you see you through their eyes. I will never see me the way you see me. But when you tell me what you see in me, and you make me feel it, I can start to see myself the way you see me. And it's not gonna happen overnight, and it's not gonna happen automatically. And I need you to keep reminding me. But that's why we need these teams of people. That's why new parents need other new parents feel like you're doing a great job. I need women to be like, Listen to this. You're really helpful and I'm grateful for you and I need my partner to tell me why I should keep trying to put new things out into the world because if we don't help each other feel good or help each other see the goodness in ourselves, then I don't know that we'll ever get there. competence turns out as a team sport

keener than common out and dropping a hot 16 on you. Maybe a hot 30 to use no matter what is usually there's a bigger number if it's like this shorter or longer version, the longer version for make bars, Tina, I don't care how many it was they were all worth it. Tina, I am grateful that you are on my team. And I'm grateful to be on yours. And so I love you a lot. And thank you for coming into the diner and and being you're just your wonderful self. Yeah. And I just I just appreciate you a lot. And this was this was really special having you here for the year anniversary show

makes me feel really special. And I'm really grateful to be on your team. And you can tell me all day, how cool it's been to watch persis happen from the sidelines. But watching you turn quarantine into diner talks with James and all of the other incredible things you've created.

You are a primary reason that persist exist. persist exists. Cool. You are one of the reasons that it happened because you inspired me to create and I'm grateful for you.

I love it. Do you know let the people know where they can follow you on the social medias, where your website is go ahead and let them go ahead go ahead and let them love you somewhere else.

My Instagram handle is the same as my website. The same as all of the places you can find me I am Tina Rae, then on the internet, re spelled ra e that's my middle name. So I'm Tina Raven on all forms of places you can find me there. And if you want to learn more about process you can also find that on my social media and I'd love to talk to you about it. Good bad ass.