Everybody in this industry is arguing about what AI does to an agency. Almost all of it is agencies talking to themselves about their own cost structure. Clients are asking something else entirely.

So Marc and V put the real question to two of the people growing Canada’s agency business while the ground moves under it: if you are not selling hours, what are you selling?

Mélanie Dunn is President of Plus Company Canada and CEO of Cossette. Karine Courtemanche is EVP of Plus Company Canada and President of its media group, Strategy’s 2024 Media Leader of the Year, Chair of the Canadian Media Directors’ Council.

Inside the conversation: why clients now buy a connected system of tools rather than time, and why the shift off billable hours is being stalled by clients, not agencies. The biggest myth in the business, and the KPI guarantee they sold three times out of hundreds of clients. Why your agency’s tech stack is now a reason to hire them. In-housing done for the right and wrong reasons. Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone and a junior can mentor a senior. And a genuine cry for help on supporting Canadian media, where the gap between an ethical placement and a cheaper one is often marginal.

The through line: agencies are being pushed to stop selling time and start selling judgment, and nobody has solved how you build judgment at scale.

Enjoy the episode!

Our Guests:

Mélanie Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dunnmelanie/

Karine Courtemanche: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karine-courtemanche-64896330/

Chapters:

00:00 The best time to be in this business

00:46 Barbell or pyramid? Setting up the debate

02:43 What is the role of a modern agency?

06:51 What clients actually buy now: a system, not hours

09:25 If you're not selling time, what are you selling?

12:51 The biggest myth: agencies do want outcomes

15:15 Why outcome models stall: predictability and risk

17:45 Attribution as the missing accountability layer

19:16 Choosing an agency on its tools, not just its people

22:05 Three conditions for integration that actually works

23:57 In-housing, for the right reasons

27:08 Why there is no single agency model

29:22 Building operational platforms, not just media tools

31:36 AI, governance, and building the same tool twice

34:19 Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone

36:44 Hiring now: references, soft skills, hard questions

45:30 Monday takeaways: governance as an enabler

49:13 A cry for help on Canadian media

57:02 Calgary, and the centre of the world