We close out the holiday season with one of the all time greats, The Muppet Christmas Carol. Joining us is friend of the show Jackie; a librarian, Muppet aficionado, and the wife who fuels the revolutionary love of one of our hosts (it's the host that name drops his wife more than he does Marx or Lenin).

Widely recognized as one of the most faithful adaptations of the Dickens' classic, the film stars Michael Caine as Scrooge, Gonzo the Great as Charles Dickens, Kermit the Frog as Bob Cratchit, and Rizzo the Rat as himself and was the first Muppet film directed by Jim Henson's son Brian Henson following the death of his father. We discuss the accuracy of the movie, the influences that led Dickens to write the story in the first place, what the story has to say about alienation, and how two Marleys is better than one amongst other things.

Only two more sleeps 'til Christmas 2025, and here at Left of the Projector we wish for a world where all us meeces can have cheeses.*

*Cheeses in this case is a unified and liberated working class working towards fully automated luxury gay space communism. Obviously.

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Track 2: Because the night before, he drank too much Travis Kelsey beers.

Track 2: That's right. Evan was drinking Travis Kelsey beers.

Track 1: I know. I was.

Track 2: What?

Track 3: Yeah. Is that a thing? Travis Kelsey beers.

Track 2: Is that a real? Wait. Yeah. For real? Yeah. Like it's branded Travis Kelsey?

Track 2: It's his beers. He has beers? Yeah. Okay. I didn't know that.

Track 2: I try not to know anything about him.

Track 3: Yeah. I found out when Evan was drinking them.

Track 2: Yeah. We found this out at the same moment. Well, I mean, you might have known.

Track 2: You're very up on your Swifty News. No, we did not know.

Track 2: We were not. Neither one of us did.

Track 1: It's like the new, cheap, decent beer that's everywhere.

Track 2: I could have used it.

Track 1: It's called like garage beer. It's actually not that bad, but I prefer not to support Travis Kelsey.

Track 2: Yeah. But you didn't buy it. Your friend did.

Track 1: I think we split it. There was like four bucks a beer.

Track 2: Wow. Contributing to Taylor Swift's billionaire status.

Track 3: You're helping her carbon footprint. it you ain't even got to worry about yours

Track 3: anymore you're helping hers it.

Track 1: Would be really funny to me if the beer like had a carbon neutral pledge or something.

Track 3: That shit would be insane never gonna happen though,

Track 3: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I am your host,

Track 3: Ward, back at it again with another film discussion from the left.

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Track 3: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.

Track 3: Welcome back to Left of the Projector with your hosts, Evan,

Track 3: Bill, and Ward. Today, we're joined by librarian and puppet aficionado, Jackie.

Track 2: Muppet aficionado.

Track 3: And we'll be discussing a Muppets Christmas Carol, originally released in 1992.

Track 3: It is a Muppets adaptation of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol with a lot

Track 3: of historical accuracies. Jackie, how are you doing?

Track 2: Hi, good. I'm excited to talk Muppets, not puppets. Muppets. There's a distinction.

Track 2: Evan, you can't cut it out. You can't cut.

Track 3: You can't cut that out.

Track 2: No, you can't cut it.

Track 3: You got to leave in my mistake.

Track 2: You can cut it out. I could just really care about the distinction between Muppets

Track 2: and puppets, which honestly I do.

Track 1: I didn't realize that this was directed by Jim Henson's son in his first movie that he ever directed.

Track 1: He was like a puppeteer, but not a director.

Track 2: I believe this is the first movie after Jim Henson died.

Track 1: I think that's right.

Track 2: Which is, I believe, that's why Rolf has, Rolf is in it, but it's only a cameo

Track 2: and he has, like, no. Really?

Track 2: Yeah. I mean, why is that? Because Jim Henson did Rolf's voice and they wouldn't

Track 2: voice, they wouldn't give Rolf a voice out of, like, respect for Jim Henson

Track 2: passing for many, many, many years. Oh, okay. Okay.

Track 1: Yeah, he died two years before this, so it makes sense if this would have been the first one.

Track 2: It's almost like a tribute, a Rolf tribute, that's what you should say.

Track 2: Yeah, a little cameo. Yeah, I always loved Rolf.

Track 1: So what is everyone's history with this film?

Track 1: I know Ward very briefly only because it was his first time watching it.

Track 2: Really?

Track 3: Yeah, it was my first time watching. I was never a Muppets fan,

Track 3: never really big into them, not even really even as a kid. I watched really

Track 3: weird choices for a child.

Track 2: That's how we ended up here, all of us.

Track 3: Yeah, honestly, that is how I ended up here because I watched way too much Demolition Man.

Track 3: And then I heard about Evan doing an episode about Demolition Man.

Track 3: And I was like, I should have fucking been on that. And then, yeah, now I'm here now.

Track 3: But no, this was a great movie. I really enjoyed it.

Track 3: I thought it was a wonderful adaptation of A Christmas Story.

Track 3: And it was great. yeah just not a big muppets guy so it wasn't too familiar evan.

Track 2: What about you.

Track 1: So for me i never watched this as a

Track 1: kid i was more as far as

Track 1: like the muppet and sort of

Track 1: like sesame street other kind of puppet related things we

Track 1: had a bunch of the we had like the what was the vhs uh

Track 1: like follow that bird and the one where big bird goes

Track 1: to the history museum and we

Track 1: had the muppets um what

Track 1: is it one i think it was the one after this it's the uh pirates one never saw

Track 1: this one until only a few years ago and now it's become like we watched it last

Track 1: christmas we'll watch it we just watched it a couple days ago but we'll probably

Track 1: watch it again you know on christmas

Track 1: so it's it's a five it's five out of five i mean it's a great movie.

Track 3: Yeah no this is great i mean i watched it the first time um a few days ago for

Track 3: this episode and then immediately was like well now time to share it with my

Track 3: daughter and the family we're gonna have family movie night and watch this because

Track 3: this is fantastic you're muted.

Track 2: How did your daughter like it?

Track 3: Oh, she loved it. She thought it was fantastic.

Track 2: Did I clear my throat unmuted, then mute myself again previously?

Track 3: I don't think so.

Track 2: Okay.

Track 3: If you did, I wasn't paying attention.

Track 2: Awesome.

Track 3: Yeah, no, she loved it. She loved it so much that for the last three days on

Track 3: the way to her martial arts classes, we've been listening to nothing but Christmas

Track 3: music and mostly songs from the Muppets.

Track 2: Aw.

Track 3: Yeah. Which has replaced K-pop Demon Hunter, thankfully. Um, so appreciate it.

Track 2: I mean, those aren't good songs.

Track 3: They're good, but it's been a lot.

Track 2: It's been a while.

Track 3: It's been a lot.

Track 2: Yeah. Well, I guess I'll, I mean, I, I watched this growing up.

Track 2: Um, I was like, you know, I watched various Muppet things growing up,

Track 2: but I, it definitely, um, it took a different turn when I met our guest who

Track 2: is my wife for the listeners out there.

Track 2: This is the. Oh, you guys are strangers. Yeah, yeah.

Track 3: Oh, okay.

Track 2: For listeners who have heard me refer to my wife numerous times throughout episodes,

Track 2: especially according to her too many times in the last episode.

Track 2: A lot of Back to the Future.

Track 2: I was like, people are going to be like, please shut the fuck up about your

Track 2: wife. Like, nobody cares.

Track 3: I literally told him to call for you in that episode. I was like,

Track 3: get Jackie, get Jackie now.

Track 2: People know I was born in 1985. five they know i'm a big fan of aha's take on

Track 2: me that i really hate the train in the end of the movie hey.

Track 3: That's that's a.

Track 2: Common take amongst.

Track 3: People with taste.

Track 2: True so uh yeah so this is the uh the upon this is the wife i have spoken of

Track 2: who uh wow the wife oh the only one,

Track 2: Who I've spoken of at length.

Track 2: And it is a, it is, it has long been her tradition to watch it every Christmas,

Track 2: which I will, I will no longer take any time from her recounting of her experience

Track 2: with Muppets Christmas gal.

Track 2: I mean, it's not very exciting. I saw it as a kid, probably when it came out,

Track 2: little Jewish kid's favorite movie, Tale as Old as Time.

Track 2: No, I watched it all the time since we didn't celebrate Christmas.

Track 2: To me, it was like you didn't need to watch it on Christmas.

Track 2: You could just watch it any time. It's just a movie.

Track 2: It's a good movie. Why would I limit myself to like once a year?

Track 2: But then, yeah, I think it was like every Christmas Eve we would watch it.

Track 2: Every Christmas Eve. So for almost 20 years now, every Christmas Eve. Jesus.

Track 2: Yeah. Now I only watch it once a year. So I did cut back.

Track 2: Though I believe we have discussed we will be watching it again this Christmas

Track 2: Eve. After we've watched it already.

Track 2: Yeah, you watch it once for like scholarly purposes, you know,

Track 2: and then again for enjoyment.

Track 3: This is for work.

Track 2: Yeah, it's for work. That's why you can't go anywhere at work because you have work.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Is this your favorite Christmas movie?

Track 2: Probably. I feel like there's, of Christmas movies, there's like real movies

Track 2: that you like actually appreciate and like are quality.

Track 2: And then there's like, to me, I love watching like the dumb Christmas movies too.

Track 2: So there'd be like separate categories of real actual good Christmas movies.

Track 2: This would probably be my favorite one.

Track 2: I feel like, is there a lot of competition? does anybody else think like having

Track 2: seen this do you really like in terms of like quality and like how good this

Track 2: is like is there a lot of competition for best christmas movie in comparison to this.

Track 1: I mean do you talk to some people i might i could say you could put home alone and.

Track 2: I'm talking to you guys home.

Track 3: Alone is my personal favorite.

Track 2: Christmas movie so so it's.

Track 3: Like those are two heavyweights like duking it out in those terms but like in

Track 3: terms of like the broad spectrum of christmas movies yeah absolutely not this like sweeps the floor.

Track 2: Like i have not actually seen or

Track 2: not for a long time all those like classic christmas movies

Track 2: that are supposed to be like the good ones like miracle on

Track 2: 34th street or um i can't think of anything else off the top of my head the

Track 2: ground christmas story christmas yeah well i've seen christmas day one which

Track 2: was that again you've already which one the groundhog day one where they he

Track 2: does the time oh did i talk black and white one oh oh.

Track 3: Yeah um it's a wonderful.

Track 2: Thank you yeah groundhog day yeah isn't it like groundhog day no oh okay well

Track 2: i haven't seen it in a really long time i think it's just like here's what the

Track 2: world would be like if you weren't in it oh it sucks okay,

Track 2: I don't know. That's what I remember. I haven't seen it in a long time. That's my summary.

Track 3: Yeah, I haven't seen it in so long.

Track 2: I think none of those compare. No. I think the only other, like,

Track 2: contemporary Christmas movie that stands up with, like, this or Home Alone is, in my opinion, L.

Track 3: I was really hoping you would just be like, Jingle All the Way.

Track 2: No, it's A Night Before Christmas, okay? That's my other. And when I say night,

Track 2: I mean K-N-I-G-H-T with Vanessa Hudgens, the night that travels forward in time.

Track 2: No, the best, not to get too off topic, the best bad Christmas movie is either

Track 2: The Spirit of Christmas or The Christmas Spirit. I don't remember what the title is.

Track 2: About a girl who stays at a haunted inn and falls in love with the ghost of

Track 2: a bootlegger and has to sell the house by Christmas Eve.

Track 2: And the end makes no sense at all. This is classic Christmas fair.

Track 2: But yeah, as for real movies, Muppets is the best. I'd have to say so. Other than Die Hard.

Track 1: I'm with you, Ward. Home Alone has just been there since I was a kid.

Track 1: So if I had watched this since I was a kid, it would be a different story.

Track 3: If I watched this as a kid, I could definitely be like, yeah,

Track 3: no, this is absolutely the best. But for me personally, I got to go with Home Alone.

Track 1: That's how I feel, too.

Track 2: I'm okay with that. I'm not mad at Home Alone. That's a great movie.

Track 2: No, Home Alone's a great movie. We should do an episode on just bad Christmas movies.

Track 3: Oh, that would be fun.

Track 2: We watch a lot of bad Christmas movies.

Track 1: Yeah, each person just could do their top five, like, worst.

Track 3: What was that one? Joy was wanting to rewatch it where it's like Santa's like a former Viking.

Track 2: Oh, wait. He's like, yeah, that's not a bad Christmas movie.

Track 2: That is Violent Night with David Pagano as Santa. Yeah, and that movie's great.

Track 3: Yeah, she's been wanting to rewatch that one.

Track 2: He is a former Viking who is Santa Claus and is a drunk. The Mrs. Claus in that is an axe.

Track 2: Oh, yeah.

Track 1: Yeah, there's also all of those films with, what's her name,

Track 1: Lacey Shabbert, who's like the Hallmark.

Track 2: Oh, yeah.

Track 1: I watched a few of those last year, and they're just pretty terrible.

Track 2: Did you watch Hot Frosty?

Track 1: I did.

Track 2: I'm sorry. And how good was that? And how good was Hot Frosty? I'm sorry.

Track 1: It was not good. It was not good.

Track 2: But it was, it's so bad, it's good, though. That movie is fucking funny. Oh, no. Yeah, I guess.

Track 1: Watched the Christmas quest which was her as well going on like this adventure.

Track 2: Oh yeah like National Treasure Christmas.

Track 1: Yes.

Track 2: Really boring.

Track 1: And it didn't really make any sense at all.

Track 2: No it was really boring. There was like no like there was no momentum to that movie.

Track 2: It's like it's the Christmas quest. It's like you guys are like really just

Track 2: kind of dragging your feet on this.

Track 3: Oh remember Jack Frost where the dad gets turned into a snow man.

Track 2: Yeah. Snowman Snow Dad is better than No Dad. Snow Dad is better than No Dad.

Track 1: You're.

Track 2: Don't make your competition how did this get made angry yeah our competition covered that.

Track 1: I mean when i think about like when i was thinking about this movie as

Track 1: i was just thinking about it it's it's almost what's most

Track 1: impressive to me is to make this movie with muppets just like this doing this

Track 1: story with muppets and then the one actor that they do get like put on like

Track 1: the greatest performance like i i always joke that michael kane should have

Track 1: like been nominated for an Oscar for his performance as Scrooge. 100%.

Track 3: No, like, absolutely. It's incredible.

Track 1: He's perfect. I mean, I joke, but I'm actually also serious.

Track 2: I mean, this movie is the start of the meme where it's like,

Track 2: cast a movie everyone is muppets

Track 2: but one person who's the person that stays human because

Track 2: muppets are people who is the one human actor

Track 2: that stays like this that's this is the beginning of that me this

Track 2: movie is the beginning of that me but it's like that thing there's he said like

Track 2: i'll do this but i'm going into it i'm playing it completely straight like i'm

Track 2: not acting like i'm in a kids movie or that it's a puppet or anything like i

Track 2: am performing this like it is this serious role and like it's amazing yeah it works perfect.

Track 1: It is impressive to be able to hold your i i would love to know if there was

Track 1: these takes where he you know didn't play it straight or it was like just started

Track 1: laughing because you know they were just messing with him with the muppet puppets.

Track 2: I have seen um a recent

Track 2: like clip from an interview where basically he talks about how like bean bunny

Track 2: is the one that like made him break this bean bunny is the cutest he's like

Track 2: bean bunny is the cute like one of the cutest things i've ever like experienced

Track 2: in my life and i couldn't like keep a straight face or like resist because bean

Track 2: bunny is just the most adorable creature like in the world oh.

Track 1: Like the little the one who goes against the turkey later.

Track 2: On yeah yes that's people yeah.

Track 1: I was also thinking i haven't i've never actually read the christmas carol i

Track 1: think you i hear that you have.

Track 2: Read the the book jackie so i like.

Track 1: Is this Also, I've heard that it's extremely accurate, you know,

Track 1: generally speaking, to the book.

Track 2: So, I read... Okay, I did read the book a long time ago. I kind of skimmed it

Track 2: again recently, just for, like, a better idea. And it is very close.

Track 2: I mean, just the fact that they have...

Track 2: Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen another adaptation of A Christmas Carol

Track 2: now that I think about it.

Track 2: Why would you ever need one? But as far as I know, most or at least or maybe

Track 2: none of them have like actual like narration by like a Charles Dickens type character.

Track 2: So because they have Gonzo in that role, there's like a ton of the actual original text in there.

Track 2: Like most of what he says is straight out of the book um

Track 2: and most of it is pretty accurately like

Track 2: depicted i mean there's a couple

Track 2: just weird things left out um that i don't think is ever in any adaptations

Track 2: like the weird children that live under the ghost of christmas present um but

Track 2: nobody needs to see that what can you tell us about the children that live under

Track 2: the ghost now i forgot their names i one's want. That big race.

Track 2: Yeah, basically at the end of the like, so in the present one,

Track 2: it's like it is in the movie, but it.

Track 2: It goes a little further. Like he, the ghost takes Scrooge like all over the

Track 2: place. It's like, here's like a, this is like different neighborhoods.

Track 2: Here's like a jail, which actually I think there was a jail in the movie,

Track 2: but like they go like all around the world and see different people.

Track 2: And then the end he's, he gives him like a weird speech.

Track 2: And then, yeah, I can't remember what the other one is. It's like want and what

Track 2: is it? Ignorance? Ignorance and want.

Track 2: Yeah. And it's like, Oh, they're like, they're, they come out and they're like

Track 2: these weird little, like starving children. and it's, I don't know, it's just weird.

Track 2: I think it's fine. I think it's fine without it, yeah.

Track 3: Yeah, it sounds better without it.

Track 2: It feels like a thing that's very much, like, of its own. I'm not explaining

Track 2: it well, but yeah, it's definitely, like, a very, like, Victorian,

Track 2: like, look what you've done to these little children.

Track 2: Besides that, it's, like, bang on. Yeah.

Track 1: I love at the beginning when Gonzo's, like, he's saying that he's,

Track 1: you know, Charles Dickens, and Rose is like, no, you're not.

Track 1: And he's like, yeah, I am. I'm just telling this story.

Track 2: It's just like the back of my hand.

Track 3: That was so funny. Yeah, there's a scar.

Track 2: Gonzo is my favorite non-Sesame Street Muppet.

Track 1: Yeah, he's very funny.

Track 3: See, I don't know which ones are canon or not. I'm not a Muppet.

Track 2: They're all canon.

Track 3: They're Sesame Street.

Track 2: I think all Muppets are canon. Yeah. It's a Muppet.

Track 3: I don't know. See, I don't know.

Track 2: I used to love Sam the Eagle, but now it feels weird. He's so patriotic.

Track 3: God, I'm surrounded by nerds again, but I don't have Caitlin this time.

Track 1: I mean i mean it's hard not to also like animal and you know um i don't know

Track 1: gonzo is just like the classic character i remember also when i was a kid watching

Track 1: the like the muppet babies you also like.

Track 2: Gonzo in that too yeah so animal is great no no lie but this does so one of

Track 2: my favorites because of this movie is rizzo he's like the best which brings

Track 2: up a little bit of a sore spot which is the Rizzo erasure in our current day,

Track 2: which is that they seem to have erased.

Track 2: Rizzo's never in anything anymore, and they've substituted Pepe the prawn for Pepe.

Track 2: Which I'm not into, but I can always watch this movie for my Rizzo. Rizzo is great.

Track 1: Yeah, I wonder why that is.

Track 2: Because, like, have you seen, like, Muppets Take Manhattan? It's,

Track 2: like, all, like, the little New York rats and stuff. Like, they used to be in

Track 2: it all the time. I love those rats.

Track 1: Well, that was one of the things that I noted is the fact that,

Track 1: I mean, they have to have, I don't know, the creative choices exactly.

Track 1: I didn't listen to much, like, behind the scenes or anything about it.

Track 1: But that the like the rats who work for Ebenezer Scrooge are,

Track 1: you know, working as a rat to work for like a landlord type person.

Track 1: I just thought was like very funny to me.

Track 1: And as Rizzo's like there listening to the story with Gonzo, I don't know.

Track 2: But Scrooge is not a landlord.

Track 1: Not a landlord. Right.

Track 2: I actually just looked because I don't think it ever says exactly what he does.

Track 2: He's like. I mean, explains what he does. Business. Business.

Track 1: Yeah. What is his official? He's a business.

Track 2: Because he's a business man. Like, because it's... He's a money lender.

Track 1: A money lender.

Track 2: Is he?

Track 1: Okay.

Track 2: He's officially a money lender? I don't know. I just read it. I don't know.

Track 2: I don't think it says. I'm sorry. I think it's implied. In A Christmas Carol, it does say...

Track 2: That rents are due, and that's his favorite. Yeah. But he also collects mortgages.

Track 2: Yeah, I don't think he's actually, I don't think he owns properties.

Track 2: I think, yeah, I think he's like a lender or something. I don't know.

Track 1: Yeah, like in the description, like just on Wikipedia for his character,

Track 1: it just says like a businessman. He like, you know.

Track 3: Businessman doing business.

Track 1: Yeah, just like he's a capitalist or something.

Track 3: He's a filthy capitalist pig. That's all we need to know.

Track 2: He doesn't need an actual job. you get the idea yeah.

Track 1: He kicks people out of like an orphanage or whatever right he says later on

Track 1: like he's just he's just uh you know he's just like the personification of just

Track 1: an evil scrooge it's great that we have the that in turn because of this guy that's.

Track 2: In the the marley and marley song that they they were freezing with their little

Track 2: frostbitten teddy bears out on the street.

Track 1: Marley Marley. I think that's one of the best songs.

Track 2: It is. So, yeah, I definitely, growing up at least, never saw another Christmas

Track 2: Carol because I did not know until I was a full-on adult that there's only one

Track 2: Marley in the actual Christmas Carol.

Track 2: I had no idea that there were not just two Marleys.

Track 1: I didn't know that until you just told me right now.

Track 2: Really? Okay, I feel better.

Track 2: It works perfectly. It does work perfectly. They're like heckling old guys.

Track 2: But yeah, I just assumed there were two of them. It seemed fine to me.

Track 3: It's a great song, too.

Track 2: To go back to the accuracy, despite the fact that there are two Marlies...

Track 2: Yeah, that's the only thing. And no, that doesn't even matter.

Track 2: But like when they appear, they are in chains with lock boxes and money boxes,

Track 2: just like in the original book.

Track 2: Like it is incredibly accurate to the original story.

Track 1: The weird thing is in the, at least in the Wikipedia of actors and characters,

Track 1: it says that it's supposedly Statler and Waldorf, the Muppet characters.

Track 1: But it only lists Statler and only lists Jacob Marley. So because there is only

Track 1: one Marley, it technically doesn't list another.

Track 2: Wow. That's amazing. Wow.

Track 3: So Marley and friend.

Track 1: So Waldorf is not, is, is uncredited in this film. Poor guy,

Track 1: you know, he's grumpy enough already.

Track 2: That's it's the, the, the attributions from Muppets are so weird. What do you mean?

Track 2: Because it's like, because they're not, because they are, they're actually,

Track 2: they're attributed as like themselves as the Muppets.

Track 2: and that's why like in this case it's like you know it's like there's only one

Track 2: marley and it's not gonna be marley marley it would be marley and then because

Track 2: that's who's like you know he's being priest portraying marley and then there's

Track 2: the second character but they're not gonna change his name they're just gonna

Track 2: it's him it's the muppet waldorf i don't really that's fine.

Track 1: I just think.

Track 2: It's strange how like you know it's like gonzo as charles dickens i don't know

Track 2: it's the way that like Muppets like they are the actor Gonzo is the actor they

Track 2: are the actor oh I see what you're saying it's not they're.

Track 1: Not putting yeah like but if you look at the like in the Wikipedia thing too

Track 1: it'll say who is the performer who's performing a bunch of them and then it says.

Track 2: Do they really no one needs to know that so it says.

Track 1: You know it says like.

Track 2: Oh yeah so like Frank.

Track 1: Oz is like Piggy and.

Track 2: Like Fozzie like some.

Track 1: Of the famous ones or the.

Track 2: Fozzie Wick most well.

Track 1: Known ones or whatever I think he's still alive.

Track 2: Frank Oz didn't he like yeah yeah.

Track 1: He is 81 years old.

Track 2: Oh he's oops i killed him sorry i thought he died sorry frank oz.

Track 3: Yeah, any chance he had. Thanks, Jackie.

Track 2: He was going to be on this. Yeah, now he'll never come on.

Track 3: Yeah, we were going to get him on. I was about to make a challenge to him,

Track 3: like I do a lot of famous people, to come on the podcast and defend yourself.

Track 3: But now I can't do that because he's going to die.

Track 2: What did Frank Oz do that he needed to defend himself?

Track 3: I don't know.

Track 2: I was going to think of something.

Track 3: See, like every time I do it, I'm grasping at straws, all right?

Track 2: Yeah, but this is really tenuous. Defend yourself.

Track 1: I don't know if you can really criticize any of that.

Track 3: How do you feel justified having your man's hand inside of a woman puppet? Oh, my God.

Track 2: It's fucked up.

Track 3: Come on the podcast. Defend yourself if you don't die.

Track 2: If you don't die. Are you still alive? Come defend yourself.

Track 1: Frank Oz's publicist is going to sue us right now.

Track 3: If you died, I'm so sorry. Rest in peace. You're incredible.

Track 2: Oh, my God.

Track 1: But Frank Goss also is part of the Star Wars universe, too.

Track 2: Yeah, because Yoda. But Yoda's not in the only Star Wars that matters,

Track 2: so it doesn't... Right, of course. Who cares?

Track 1: Can they do a Muppet Star Wars? Is that possible? Probably not, right?

Track 2: I mean, Disney owns all of that stuff, so it's very possible. Yeah.

Track 3: They're plugging that shit into Sora AI now, too, so...

Track 1: I want to see.

Track 2: Pigs in space is basically Star Wars, so there you go.

Track 1: Who would play Andor with Muppet? You can think about it.

Track 3: I don't know enough about Muppets.

Track 2: Yeah, I'm going to have to think that over.

Track 3: Answer this.

Track 1: I'm going to say it's, I don't know. Waldorf would play, would play Luthan.

Track 2: I think it's Rizzo. I think Rizzo would play it. Rizzo?

Track 2: Okay. Come on.

Track 1: I'll take it.

Track 2: Why not?

Track 3: There's not enough Rizzo.

Track 2: Come on. That's 100% true. Rizzo is a working class character.

Track 2: He is a man of the people. He's salt of the earth. Rizzo would be Cassian.

Track 1: That's like, that actually is completely like going back to the action, to the movie.

Track 1: They don't, other than, you know, Ebenezer Scrooge, they don't really show you

Track 1: any other wealthy people.

Track 1: I mean, you have the people who work for him and then you have sort of the people

Track 1: in town, which presumably are all just sort of like peasant,

Track 1: you know, working class or worse.

Track 1: and they really present the idea that he is just screwing over the entire city somehow.

Track 1: This one guy is like causing London to just be this terrible place where,

Track 1: at least from what war you send me, some of the like laws that are happening

Track 1: in the 1850s during when this happens, it's a pretty miserable place to live.

Track 2: Yeah, it sounds good to me.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: I mean, they have a whole song about it, so.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: Everybody hates him.

Track 3: I mean.

Track 2: Even the vegetables don't like him, if you'll recall from the song. So funny.

Track 3: So funny.

Track 2: I think, I think it's very much like a, uh, I like to think of Scrooge as like

Track 2: representing the, it's almost, he, he represents the larger thing.

Track 2: It's like, this is, this is a neighborhood thing. The people in the neighborhood

Track 2: know who he is and like, you know, how shitty he is.

Track 2: I don't think people outside. And like, we do meet some other rich people during

Track 2: the ghost of Christmas future sequence. Yeah.

Track 1: Which is the pig gentleman.

Track 2: Yes. The pig, the gentleman pigs, um, spoiler alert when Scrooge dies in the future.

Track 2: Um, and they, even they don't, you know, which really just shows like,

Track 2: I feel like it doesn't even show so much that like, even they don't like him

Track 2: so much as just that entire class is made up of just self, like just selfish,

Track 2: soulless individuals who do not care about anybody or anything unless they can get something.

Track 2: thing out of it the thing i thought was interesting when i

Track 2: reread the actual book is it's

Track 2: pointed out in the beginning that scrooge is

Track 2: too cheap to like change the sign so it still just says

Track 2: scrooge and marley and people just call him either name because they don't even

Track 2: know which one he is and he'll just answer to anything he will respond to either

Track 2: one because it's it just so doesn't matter they just see him as just like this

Track 2: you know which to me really sounds like so it

Track 2: a description of alienate, like alienation as like Marx describes it,

Track 2: but like to the point where it's like.

Track 2: Even the capitalists, like, they are alienated from themselves and their labor.

Track 2: Like, alienation taken to the extreme. Yeah.

Track 2: Well, that's, like, the whole thing with this and him as a character is,

Track 2: like, it's, like, the thing I want.

Track 2: Like, his problem is not specifically, like, he doesn't like Christmas.

Track 2: His problem is that he has nobody in his life to care about.

Track 2: He, like, has no connections to anything. And that's, like, represented through

Track 2: Christmas because it's a time of, like, family and togetherness.

Track 2: But, like, his issue is that he's, like, a bitter person with absolutely no

Track 2: connections whatsoever.

Track 1: Right.

Track 2: He has no community.

Track 1: Yeah. He doesn't want the people to, uh, his co-workers, or I wouldn't call

Track 1: them his co-workers, his subordinates to, uh, like, Kermit and all the rats

Track 1: to have the day off because otherwise he would be alone. He doesn't like that.

Track 2: Yeah, it's, like, a waste to him.

Track 3: No, I like to see him as an evil capitalist who's trying to exploit all the profits.

Track 3: just seem as evil as possible.

Track 2: Yeah but it's like that's what it's like that's what

Track 2: they come that's what it comes down to it's like but we we know that

Track 2: like at it's like hard this is this system destroys

Track 2: everybody and everything within it even the people that purportedly you know

Track 2: profit from it you can't look at peter teal or uh you can't look at sam altman

Track 2: saying i couldn't imagine raising my child without chat gpt without thinking

Track 2: oh you are irrevocably broken like,

Track 2: you are damaged in a truly fundamental way yeah.

Track 1: Yeah that's that's why my i kind of i made this joke whenever maybe this is

Track 1: last year when i watched it was that like the reason you can tell this movie

Track 1: is fiction is because like a billionaire changed his ways you know like.

Track 2: Yeah that just.

Track 3: Wouldn't not the muppets never happened.

Track 2: But to be fair the muppets are fine yeah it's the thieves Yeah,

Track 2: yeah. The Muppets clearly could exist in real life.

Track 3: Yeah, the Muppet – yeah, there's no problem – I got no problems against the Muppets.

Track 3: I have problems with the petty bourgeois notions that are inherent to the story of Christmas, you know.

Track 2: But at the same time, you know, if the People's Revolution of China taught us

Track 2: anything, it's that they can – you know, you can –,

Track 2: redeem certain people i mean they did redeem you

Track 2: know the uh former whatever who the fuck was it the uh the chankai shag thank

Track 2: you they did reform him i got you he spent the rest of his life as a janitor

Track 2: humble and giving to other people yeah that's that's our world's christmas carol yeah.

Track 3: That's that's the marxist.

Track 2: Christmas carol.

Track 3: I mean even even evan was saying like in our group show is like like this very

Track 3: liberal notion of an ending where it's just like oh he's nice now instead of

Track 3: just like no longer a capitalist and.

Track 2: So he doesn't like get a new job he doesn't like change anything about his life

Track 2: except that he's like kind and like i i assume give some money away maybe i

Track 2: don't know but yeah he's just nice donate at christmas time now but.

Track 3: Like outside of that probably not gonna.

Track 1: Yeah he's just it's like the same shit he just he's like

Track 1: what i call you know the way that billionaires do it now they have

Track 1: charities and do stuff they're just laundering their reputation to like look

Track 1: good but they're still not changing anything about him like he whispers to the

Track 1: guys at the you know the was it the orphanage or wherever they're collecting

Track 1: the money from i'll give you this much money and then he's still going to make

Track 1: all these people pay their rent or whatever it's not like he.

Track 2: Right he'll just he'll give them a turkey at the same time yeah it's an interesting

Track 2: historical like notion because you know because capitalism as a system of oppression

Track 2: and exploitation came to be,

Track 2: dominant system under the industrial revolution and

Track 2: this is a time of like

Track 2: the full-throated industrial revolution like this is the industrial

Track 2: revolution underway that the notion the

Track 2: liberal notion that you can both exploit and oppress but be a good person by

Track 2: doing certain like performative acts but came it was birthed at the same time

Track 2: like it came about at the same exact time.

Track 3: Yeah i mean charles dickens himself like he his upbringing

Track 3: was petty bourgeois and then he was like later thrust into like poverty and

Track 3: then that's like that's where he gains like a bit of his class consciousness

Track 3: and we get those things here but like at the end of the day it's still very

Track 3: petty bourgeois notions of oh just appeal to the better nature and people can

Track 3: change and then people will come around to it and it's like that's not always the case big dog yeah.

Track 1: I was actually thinking about this. I know that because Marx was writing at the same time.

Track 1: They were writing simultaneously almost.

Track 1: And I wonder- Yeah.

Track 3: This was in 1843, which, I mean, follow what recently happened.

Track 3: We had the plug plot riots in 1842, and then you had a bit earlier the Poor

Track 3: Law Amendment Act of 1834, which really made conditions bad for the working class.

Track 3: To say that, hey, things can get better if the people oppressing us are just

Track 3: nicer in a Christmas story, yeah, pretty liberal.

Track 2: It is a, it is an interesting contrast that the two were at the same time. Yeah.

Track 1: I think I sent you both an article that was, someone was basically trying to

Track 1: compare that they're sort of, they had this, you know, not the same perspective

Track 1: on things at the time, but similar.

Track 1: And I don't know that I can see that. I mean, the way that Dickens is writing,

Track 1: you know, I don't see it that way.

Track 1: He's not looking to overthrow anything. He's just looking to reform something at best.

Track 3: Yeah, no, at best. I mean.

Track 2: What did you know.

Track 3: That just sounds.

Track 2: Like oh just that you had factual information that you didn't share with me

Track 2: you know I love a background I don't know,

Track 2: Oh, the article. I love reading context.

Track 2: How dare you withhold it from me? I think this was sent at the same time as

Track 2: the notes, and I missed that.

Track 3: Yeah, this was all right around the same time.

Track 2: Yeah, same.

Track 1: Yeah, like the source for the thing that I found wasn't exactly the best location.

Track 1: It was from the Washington Institute, which is in their culture,

Track 1: Christianity, or Christianity and culture section.

Track 1: So I don't even know when this came out. I couldn't get through the whole article.

Track 1: I'm like, this is just kind of nonsense.

Track 3: Yeah. One of the things I was talking about in terms of like the conditions

Track 3: of the time was like one of the reports from Children's Employment Commission

Track 3: in 1842 described how children were chained,

Track 3: belted and harnessed like dogs in a go cart crawling upon their hands and feet

Track 3: and dragging their heavy loads behind them.

Track 3: And Dickens decides we should appeal to the better nature. Yeah.

Track 3: They can be nice to us if we just show them that Christmas is a cool time.

Track 2: I do think that part of it is still like the notion, like, you know,

Track 2: there is the notion that like, you know, like you want to think well of,

Track 2: you know, and you want to hope for the better.

Track 2: And it's like, I still think at the time, you know, the, the idea of understanding the depth of this,

Track 2: of the nature of the system, you know, that he was writing this the same time

Track 2: Marx was writing a capital, the same time they were coming to understand these things.

Track 2: And that in and of itself, this is a form of budding understanding of the nature of the system.

Track 2: But you haven't gotten to the point where you really understand the depth of

Track 2: the system and you still think, oh wait, these are still other human beings.

Track 2: And it's like, they just hadn't come to that point, I feel like.

Track 2: It's not like now. I feel like not to keep doing this, but when I reread the book,

Track 2: there was a lot more of like the it is not just good or important,

Track 2: but it is like your job and like a human on this planet to like look out for

Track 2: your like fellow man to like have community like it's your responsibility kind of. Yeah.

Track 2: Which I think is something that doesn't fully ever translate to the movies.

Track 2: But it's like, if you think about the ghosts, like to me, the present is,

Track 2: I feel like what changes Scrooge the most, which is the part where he's shown

Track 2: like how other people live.

Track 2: Because the past, he sees it and he's like sad and he's like,

Track 2: leave me alone. I don't want to see this anymore.

Track 2: By the future, he's already like, yes, I want to see what's happening. I'll change.

Track 2: I promise. But like, to me, it's like the present that is what changes his character.

Track 2: And most of the present is seeing like, oh, this person that I work with every

Track 2: day has a home, has problems, can't afford like a nice meal.

Track 2: Yeah. He understands it is the abolishment of his alienation at that point because

Track 2: he starts to like actually understand the human condition and the fact that

Track 2: other people are humans. or Muppets or.

Track 3: Frogs and his role and involvement of it too what's that,

Track 3: And his role and involvement in that. Yeah.

Track 1: Yeah. The scene, too, where in the present one, where his family is just making

Track 1: jokes about how he's this horrible thing.

Track 2: I always find that scene so strange because Fred, it seems so counter to his

Track 2: character to all of a sudden just start dropping these fucking birds.

Track 2: And I'm like, why are you all of a sudden? He's so mean.

Track 2: It just seems unexpected. I mean, Scrooge is a total dick to him.

Track 2: Like, I don't think it's that bad if he's being behind his back.

Track 2: Like, he gave him no reason to be nice. I'm just surprised.

Track 2: It seemed unlike him. That's all. He had like an audience. He was playing a

Track 2: game. He had a great thing. He knew, you know, he knew what he was doing. But I do.

Track 1: It was funny.

Track 2: I do think that some of these like modern day judgments that we as like Marxists

Track 2: and leftists have about this,

Track 2: about this story and this movie in general are unduly harsh when taken in the

Track 2: context of the time and understanding the new,

Track 2: like the newly emerging conditions and people's understanding of it.

Track 2: Like, again, like not everyone is going to be Marx, you know,

Track 2: like it took Marx writing that and publishing it for people to like broadly to see it.

Track 2: The fact that Dickens wrote this, as far as it didn't go in our perspectives,

Track 2: in comparison to anything else, this is fucking, you know, of the time,

Track 2: revolutionary in and of itself.

Track 2: They're like, you need to look

Track 2: at other people's conditions and understand how you are affecting them.

Track 2: That in and of itself is pretty meaningful for the time.

Track 1: I mean, is that how people view it?

Track 3: Yeah, but I'm in hindsight in the future, and so I don't care. I'm going to shit on him.

Track 2: How smart could Dickens be if he couldn't see what was happening?

Track 3: Yeah, did Dickens consider human nature?

Track 2: I think Dickens is a very interesting character as an individual.

Track 2: He's a very interesting character.

Track 3: I was hoping you were saying as a Muppet.

Track 2: No, as a Muppet. He would be a great Muppet. Yeah, I mean, let's be real.

Track 2: Dickens is basically, was basically a Muppet.

Track 2: The man was known for being outlandish and foppish and dressing absurdly.

Track 2: He was... All of the... A rock star. He was the rock star of his day. Yeah.

Track 3: I'm glad you said that. I thought you were going to say he had a hand inside of him.

Track 2: Fun fact, he actually did have a parasitic twin, and that was a hand, and it was inside him.

Track 2: They found that out way later.

Track 3: The first Muppet.

Track 2: Yeah. What is a Muppet if not a parasitic twin? Also, he was felt. He was felt.

Track 2: No, though, but just on a superficial level, like Muppets, but with like Victorian

Track 2: facial hair, like those giant sideburns and stuff is just really funny.

Track 3: Hilarious.

Track 2: When they're pigs? When they're pigs, yeah.

Track 1: I don't, I don't know why it's the, one of the things that my kids really liked

Track 1: was the, like the penguin, the scene where the penguins are sort of just gliding

Track 1: along, skating along there. I mean, it seems like completely random.

Track 3: Penguins are always a great.

Track 2: Because it's like the magic of seeing Kermit ice skate, I think.

Track 1: Yeah, that's true.

Track 2: It's like all of a sudden, it's like the whole time you're like,

Track 2: you see Kermit doing stuff, you see the Muppets doing stuff,

Track 2: but it isn't until it, it is so rare you see them operating just like fully.

Track 2: autonomously and it's like oh it's like the magic like hits home it's like they

Track 2: become full beings in a way they're not usually like that scene in is it when

Track 2: the Muppets may take my hand where like Kermit and Fozzie are on the bikes,

Track 2: I can't remember which one it's from but yeah I know what you're talking about that scene is like,

Track 2: it's mind-blowing as a kid it's mind-blowing it might be the um a kid or yeah whatever whatever,

Track 2: Muppet movie. I was going to say the penguins are cute, so they're appealing

Track 2: to kids, but that's a much nicer reason.

Track 3: That's what I was going with, too.

Track 2: Yeah. Because it's also like it's a nice moment. It's like, oh,

Track 2: they're closing up for Christmas. They're walking down the street together.

Track 2: Oh, look at these penguins. They're having a party.

Track 2: Everybody's happy and enjoying everything.

Track 1: Yeah, I guess that's like plays on too, is that Scrooge sort of come,

Track 1: you know, when he comes through, everyone sort of, he ruins this festive atmosphere

Track 1: that everyone has because they have to bite their tongue when Scrooge comes through or something.

Track 2: That's so true. Like he walks down the street and people sing about how bad

Track 2: he is. And like Kermit walks down the street and he like joins into a party right away.

Track 1: Yeah, we didn't talk about Kermit's family, where Kermit is sort of the,

Track 1: his, I guess you could say he's like the, I don't know, they don't say what

Track 1: his actual job is, but he's sort of like the one below him. He's like a clerk.

Track 1: But getting paid peanuts.

Track 2: He's the head clerk.

Track 1: Yeah. But getting paid poorly, which Scrooge sees later in the,

Track 1: you know, the Christmas present where he sees his house and,

Track 1: you know, his tiny, tiny Christmas meal and, you know, his sick Tiny Tim.

Track 1: Even though my kids had seen it before, they're like, does Tiny Tim die?

Track 1: I'm like, no, he doesn't. Remember, he says that line later.

Track 2: He does not die. Very clearly stated. Also directly from the book,

Track 2: in all caps, does not die.

Track 2: Why? Because was it originally he did die?

Track 2: I think it was just that it wasn't clear. He didn't make it clear or something.

Track 2: And people were like, what the hell happened to Tiny Tim?

Track 2: He did not die.

Track 3: You just can't introduce Tiny Tim and then have us wonder.

Track 2: As a child, this tells you how bad a person I am. I found Tiny Tim to be really irritating.

Track 2: And I feel bad saying that, but his song is the worst one. He's just a little too good.

Track 2: It's saccharine. Yeah, a little bit too much. I mean, he's cute.

Track 1: Yeah, they play him up a bunch.

Track 2: Yeah. I think it's interesting, you know, that, like, you know, our main...

Track 2: like view of like the every man is Kermit,

Track 2: despite the fact that like the primary like exploited class of the time were

Track 2: the, the, were the working class of like the factories and like those kinds of things.

Track 2: And I think it's a furious choice to,

Track 2: and I think, I don't know if Dickens did this intentionally, but like,

Track 2: that the that the exploitation that

Track 2: that is actually where it starts that it's like you it's

Track 2: easy to look at a factory and go this is bad it is

Track 2: easy to look at children being chained to like things and treated like dogs

Track 2: you know and be like oh that's bad but it is also easy to miss the thing perpetuating

Track 2: that and that is the capital class not you know if it wasn't for that.

Track 2: Wouldn't exist it's like why there's a difference like early

Track 2: today uh jackie shared like i think it

Track 2: was like why i'm a marxist not an economist and

Track 2: like the difference between being a marxist and an economist and what it is

Track 2: is understanding capital relation and how that drives these things and it's

Track 2: like you look at a factory oh this is economy this is you know It's business,

Track 2: as Sam the Eagle would say. Um...

Track 2: The American way. But when you look at, you have to look at the thing behind it.

Track 2: You have to look at Scrooge and his worker who was also exploited as part of

Track 2: the system that it, you know, creates hyper exploitation.

Track 2: I think it's an interesting decision to focus on that.

Track 2: Yeah, like it's not the easy choice. Yeah. it's not the easy choice to just

Track 2: like because it does imply that you can't just improve working conditions you

Track 2: need to stop this part of it because this is the part that drives it.

Track 3: You heard it here Bill is calling out Charles Dickens come on the podcast defend yourself.

Track 2: I'm gonna dig his body up ghosts okay we know these ghosts are real he could

Track 2: just visit you as a ghost no problem yeah the.

Track 3: Ghost of Dickens class is gonna we will bare minimum except Gonzo.

Track 2: To come on. We'll accept Gonzo.

Track 3: We'll accept Gonzo.

Track 2: Gonzo on the podcast.

Track 3: Gonzo, come on the podcast. Gonzo, defend yourself.

Track 1: Who plays his, I can't remember who plays his, oh, he's David Goels or Goels.

Track 2: Who?

Track 1: I think he's the guy who plays his, like his, the puppeteer for him.

Track 3: He can come along too.

Track 2: But we're requesting Gonzo. Stop talking about the supposed people behind the Muppets, okay?

Track 2: I'm going to need you to stop that. Right?

Track 1: It's just Gonzo.

Track 2: It's just Gonzo. I don't need to know anything about those people.

Track 1: They're not real.

Track 2: What people? Exactly. What people?

Track 3: I didn't see any people in the skating scene.

Track 2: I didn't see that.

Track 2: When Rizzo went through the, when he walked through the gate,

Track 2: could he have done that if there was a person there? No. That's true.

Track 2: Could he have done that if there's a human there? No human could fit through

Track 2: those bars. No human could fit through those bars. Gonzo couldn't fit through those bars.

Track 1: I like when Rizzo falls into the, like, the ice, and then he goes into the party,

Track 1: and he, like, thaws him out. Like, he breaks the ice, and he pops out.

Track 2: There's so many good little Rizzo gags. Like, there's, he uses him to,

Track 2: like, wipe the window off.

Track 2: At one point, he uses him to, like, blow on the fire as, like,

Track 2: I don't know what those things are. You know those little. Bellows. Bellows, thank you.

Track 3: Yeah, that was so good.

Track 2: Thank you for making me a part of this, Mr. Dickens.

Track 1: When he starts flying too, he just starts freaking out.

Track 2: Yeah. You know what I love also for the Gonzo lover here?

Track 2: That they still include Gonzo's love of chickens in this in like little subtle ways.

Track 2: Like he meets a chicken on the way to the past and, you know,

Track 2: gets to know her and knows her name and stuff. And when they go to the party,

Track 2: the chicken walks by and he gives her like the up and down. He goes, he's like, whoa.

Track 1: Wait, but doesn't he also say that they own a chicken factory?

Track 2: It's a rubber chicken factory.

Track 1: Rubber chicken factory.

Track 3: Rubber chicken factory, yeah.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: I guess real chickens also work at the rubber chicken factory.

Track 2: Yeah, well, they're the models.

Track 1: I kept thinking about that holiday party as, like, you know,

Track 1: you give your employees, like, a pizza party during the holidays to make them

Track 1: forget how you're exploiting them.

Track 2: Yeah, that's definitely the way.

Track 3: That's very the vibe.

Track 2: Yeah, that's definitely the way we would say it, but it's ironic.

Track 2: Like, probably not the of the time.

Track 2: Well, I think it was like expected. Like you take care of. Yeah.

Track 2: It's like the, well, it's like the very like.

Track 2: It goes back to the feudal time. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I like have no brain

Track 2: today. Where the peasants.

Track 2: Right. Like the Lord would like provide for them on that day,

Track 2: which I'm not saying it's not like fucked up that they're serfdom, but.

Track 2: But yeah, like it's, it's described as very like, oh, he's Fezziwig slash Fozziwig,

Track 2: which is like, so they must've been so excited when they're like Fezziwig.

Track 2: Like, we know exactly who to put in this role.

Track 3: Perfect.

Track 2: But, yeah, he's supposed to be great.

Track 2: But it is. It's like, we don't, I don't know how he treats anybody any other

Track 2: time. The only time we see him is throwing a party.

Track 2: Well, Scrooge does say he was as harsh and ruthless as a rose petal.

Track 2: That's true. You have to assume he was always very kind.

Track 1: Well, doesn't Scrooge also make, he makes a comment like, oh,

Track 1: why would you waste your money on this party? Yeah.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Did he say that?

Track 2: Yes. At the party. At the party.

Track 1: Why would you?

Track 1: He's like, this is stupid. We could just not do this and save all that money.

Track 2: Yeah, it's very much a thing of the time because, like,

Track 2: Dickens was hearkening back to a time, a previous time that he was nostalgic

Track 2: for and in which the people in power were expected to care for other people.

Track 2: Which is, again, like, we have gotten to the point where, like.

Track 2: There was a time where even as terrible as it was, like, feudalism was fucking bad.

Track 2: like no lie feudalism was

Track 2: bad and no one is trying to defend it

Track 2: but like it was expected there was

Track 2: a time which it was expected if you were a person of power you it

Track 2: was expected you take you took care of people

Track 2: and like that is the antithesis

Track 2: of like modern capitalist system it's like

Track 2: no like you are beholden

Track 2: you know it's like you you it's expected

Track 2: that you serve at my you know like leisure

Track 2: yeah well it's like when the whole

Track 2: thing comes up about having the day off like you

Track 2: can tell when you're like reading it it's it's like

Track 2: it's expected that like they will

Track 2: get paid they're getting a paid day off scrooge is

Track 2: not like pissed off because he like is missing like because he

Track 2: like wants to work that day he's annoyed because he has to like you know

Track 2: waste money paying them on this day and

Track 2: like nowadays it would never be like a suit like even scrooge would never be

Track 2: like well i can't not pay you but so even he was better than like it is now

Track 2: it really seems like it's like to go again to go back to like the idea that

Track 2: like you know Dickens and Marks were right at the same time.

Track 2: And it's like in its own way.

Track 2: A Christmas Carol is a prescient look at the nature of capital as it evolved

Track 2: in the way in which capitalists like moved forward and changed the culture and became more and more.

Track 2: And because like, that's who Scrooge was.

Track 2: Scrooge was who we think of as like a capitalist and a, you know,

Track 2: exploiter in the modern sense of the word.

Track 2: and even at the time he was like this is

Track 2: where it's gonna go and this is where it's gonna they're all

Track 2: gonna be like this don't and it

Track 2: is a it is a kind of prescient look at like what the future will be like man

Track 2: this almost feels dystopic now fuck it feels like just pig businessmen everywhere

Track 2: It feels dystopic when you think about it that way,

Track 2: but it is like, I can't help but see it that way.

Track 2: It's like, they're like, oh yeah, like this is what they're all going to be

Track 2: like, where they just forgot every bit of humanity.

Track 2: And became Peter Thiel's and Sam Mullen's.

Track 2: Well, I think that's why, like I was saying earlier, that like Christmas is

Track 2: not necessarily the main point.

Track 2: I think that's why every like adaptation is like, Christmas,

Track 2: he doesn't like Christmas.

Track 2: Can you believe it? Because it's a lot easier to think this guy is bad because

Track 2: he doesn't like Christmas.

Track 2: And once he likes Christmas, everything's fine.

Track 2: Instead of having to think like the harder thing, which is like,

Track 2: he's a bad person because he doesn't have community. He doesn't care for people.

Track 2: He has no responsibility for people. and he has to learn that to become a better

Track 2: person yeah instead of just like all right christmas sounds fun like i'll do christmas.

Track 3: I mean no i i agree with you

Track 3: bill when you're like talking i was very dystopian where it's like

Track 3: yeah no like at least like back then we had notions of like oh

Track 3: at least they take care of people but now it's just like they're all

Track 3: peter teals and it's like even with like a lot of

Track 3: the working class now too it's like you see like oh at least

Track 3: they had like some kind of class consciousness because like they all recognize

Track 3: scrooge as a sinner yeah it's like we've even lost that we've lost that amongst

Track 3: like the religious people where it's like recognizing these billionaires as

Track 3: fucking sinners why are you defending that is so true why are you defending them yeah.

Track 2: Yeah why are you.

Track 3: It's crazy why.

Track 2: Are you on the internet defending everyone hated scrooge yeah nobody thought

Track 2: like oh that's amazing like i could be that yeah all i need to do is work really

Track 2: hard and i'll like i'll be that yeah it's like you know it's we had At one point,

Track 2: it was understood that the union was the compromise between we will go to your

Track 2: house, beat you to death, and throw it down.

Track 2: And nowadays, it's like the union is the compromise in which you won't give

Track 2: us anything, but we have a union. Yeah.

Track 2: Your observation, this is going back, but about the stupid company pizza party,

Track 2: I just have to share real quick, my favorite holiday party I was ever treated

Track 2: to, which was, it was a staff training day slash holiday party.

Track 2: Our schedule for the day was, the morning was fire safety training.

Track 2: This was right before Christmas.

Track 2: They showed us videos about Christmas trees catching people's living rooms on fire.

Track 3: Then we had our- You got to make sure you water your tree.

Track 2: Exactly. Then we had our holiday lunch. And then after holiday lunch was active

Track 2: shooter training. America.

Track 2: It's the American way. It's the American way.

Track 3: It's the American way. You'll love it. It's the American way.

Track 2: So I would have loved that party instead.

Track 1: That scene in Christmas past when he goes to see his child, like his self as a school kid.

Track 1: And the teacher is telling him like, oh, yeah, this is the British,

Track 1: the British way or the American way.

Track 1: And then he has to whisper and he's like, oh, it's the British or the American

Track 1: way. the way yeah i like that joke so funny which it's all the same guy yeah.

Track 2: It's all i mean it's the birthplace of it it's where it came from thanks britain.

Track 1: Yeah way to go what's what do you what's all everyone's favorite song marley.

Track 3: And marley of course are you kidding me that one is awesome.

Track 1: It's really good.

Track 3: It's Marley and Marley. It's like... It's so good.

Track 1: And it looks pretty good given the way that they made it 30 years ago.

Track 1: Is that everyone's favorite? Is that just a consensus?

Track 2: Oh, man.

Track 3: Definitely mine.

Track 2: You know, it's Marley. I also really do like...

Track 2: one was is it one more sleep till christmas yes i do really where they have

Track 2: one more sleep till the penguin skating party but before that when they're like

Track 2: closing up yes i really do like for christmas that's nice oh the closing the

Track 2: when they're closing up the shop.

Track 3: I thought that was one of the weakest.

Track 2: Songs that's because did you watch the extended version i.

Track 3: Don't think i did.

Track 2: Whoa are you gonna shit talk that's because you missed you missed that

Track 2: one the love is gone oh i think

Track 2: so sorry okay well first

Track 2: of all i'll say maybe marley marley but possibly also

Track 2: the ghost of christmas presents like it feels like christmas song because that's

Track 2: just like really nice um i do like that one a lot um i think that song even

Track 2: though the the like cut out song even though it's like kind of slow and not

Track 2: amazing like it matters in the story it is that the sam The eagle song?

Track 2: Cut that. No. Oh, my God. I wish. The fact that they cut that song is actually

Track 2: really a poor choice. Yeah.

Track 2: So there's a song in the, I don't know which version you guys watch.

Track 2: There's a song in the past when his fiance breaks up with him about how the love is gone.

Track 2: And that's why it seems weird when it's like, she's like, oh,

Track 2: you love me once and walks away.

Track 2: And then Gonzo's like crying. It's because there was like three minutes of song

Track 2: where she's like, sorry, it's over.

Track 2: like you're not who i thought you were and we can't be together and then it has the little,

Track 2: reprise at the end that yeah michael kane sings and then it doesn't mean as

Track 2: much where he says the love we found yeah that doesn't mean anything out of

Track 2: context and most people don't see that song the.

Track 1: When the love is gone is.

Track 2: That's what you're talking about yeah yeah i watched.

Track 1: I watched the one that had that.

Track 2: Okay good i.

Track 3: Didn't see sorry i'm.

Track 2: Worried,

Track 2: That's what I grew up with on the giant VHS tape clamshell box thing.

Track 2: Marley Marley's, it's a straight banger. It is a really good song.

Track 3: It's so good.

Track 1: Yeah. So it's really hard to beat that one. I wasn't giving anyone a hard time

Track 1: for that first. Someone had to pick something else just for.

Track 3: No, if you don't like that one, you suck.

Track 1: Three listeners just turned off the podcast.

Track 2: I mean, the beginning song where they just like hurl insults at Scrooge right

Track 2: in his face is like pretty good.

Track 3: It's pretty good. How do we forget about that? It's so good.

Track 2: Yeah, that's my favorite.

Track 3: If you don't like those two songs from this movie, then fuck you. Other than that.

Track 2: Yeah, that's my favorite one. I'm sorry. That's my favorite song.

Track 3: It's so good.

Track 2: Even the vegetables. It is just a straight diss track. Yeah.

Track 2: Every single bit of it is just.

Track 1: They can redo it with Kendrick Lamar.

Track 2: Yeah. it's just it's just too solid it's such a good opening too like.

Track 3: It just rips into.

Track 2: Him it's.

Track 3: Just such a good opening.

Track 2: And it includes it includes the classic line no cheeses for us mises yes yes

Track 2: that is true that's become a real thing lately yeah such.

Track 3: A good line.

Track 2: Nostalgic millennials yeah that is that I can't.

Track 1: Believe we forgot that uh.

Track 2: Now who is everybody's least favorite Muppet though least favorite Muppet or

Track 2: character in this movie Muppet in this movie or Muppet in general Tiny Tim is the worst I don't know.

Track 1: I mean, I like Fozzie Bear normally. I don't feel like he gets enough to do, maybe.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: It's like a little speech thing where he's like, I'm going to give a big speech,

Track 1: and then he says like two things, and I don't know.

Track 3: Yeah, I was pretty disappointed by that. I was like, Fozzie!

Track 2: My least favorite is Miss Piggy. I hate Miss Piggy, and I've always hated Miss Piggy.

Track 3: Yeah, I'm not too big on Miss Piggy.

Track 2: I asked that question because I wanted to talk Miss Piggy. Wow.

Track 1: She's not in it a ton. Like, she doesn't play it. I mean, I know she's the main,

Track 1: you know, one of the characters.

Track 3: Do you see Miss Piggy as the Muppet version of that lady that you hate?

Track 2: Yes. Yes, I do. Who?

Track 3: Okay, I was thinking so. I want a hot dog real bad. That one.

Track 2: That impression did it. Thank you.

Track 3: I did it for Coolidge. Yeah, there you go.

Track 2: I got it. I actually remembered her name.

Track 2: I actually remembered her name and I was... I was like, let's see if Ward would

Track 2: do the impression. I got it.

Track 3: I couldn't think of the name, but the line came to me really quickly.

Track 2: Yeah, she's the Muppet version of Miss Cooch.

Track 3: I had a feeling you saw them two as categorically the same. 100%.

Track 2: That's a little mean to Miss Piggy.

Track 2: Wow. But this movie does answer the question we all had, which is what happens

Track 2: when a pig and a frog have children, and that is the boys are frogs and the girls are pigs.

Track 2: Hoo-hoo!

Track 1: I think my kids were like, oh, there's two pigs and two frogs. I'm like, yep.

Track 2: That's how it works.

Track 1: That works.

Track 2: Genetics are funny, kids.

Track 3: Yeah, remember those putt-nit squares you did in school? Throw that out the window.

Track 2: Yeah, it's like the pig or the frog.

Track 1: Which is the dominant gene, the pig or the frog, I guess. I guess we'll never know.

Track 2: The dominant felt. Yeah. I want to know what happens when a Muppet and a human has a baby.

Track 2: That's just weird. You made it weird.

Track 3: Yeah, you made it weird. Like, I thought I made it weird with the whole Charles

Track 3: Dickens having a hand inside of him thing.

Track 1: I'm not cutting that part out.

Track 3: You made it weird. I wasn't expecting you to.

Track 2: No, you know what would happen? It's like, you know how the ghost of Christmas

Track 2: present is like kind of a puppet, but he's also a person kind of walking around.

Track 2: Yeah. I think that is a... That's a human-muppet hybrid. Except when he's not huge.

Track 3: Oh, yeah.

Track 2: Except when he's not huge. He could be the size of a mouse. Is that just a guy

Track 2: in a costume? I assume so. It has to be.

Track 1: It says hand-suit performer in the...

Track 2: Did you think somebody was under that thing?

Track 3: You think somebody had a really big hand?

Track 2: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Track 3: They found a guy with an exceptionally big hand for that muppet. Okay.

Track 2: Oh, my God.

Track 2: My God, the image of that. Oh, my God.

Track 2: No, him and I assume that Grim Reaper is a person in there, which who is supposed

Track 2: to be the scariest ghost.

Track 3: Same big hand guy.

Track 2: Big hand guy. You thought.

Track 3: You thought. Nope. Big hand guy got it.

Track 1: He's not getting a lot of work these days.

Track 3: Evan was big hand guy's name. Actually, nope. Don't pull it up.

Track 3: Bill doesn't want to know.

Track 1: Yeah, I don't know who plays the Grim Reaper or he has.

Track 2: I don't know. It's Big Hand Guy.

Track 3: Big Hand Guy.

Track 1: Is that the one, the yet to come? Yeah, yeah.

Track 2: Yes, yes. And then the past one is creepy computer child.

Track 2: Is that all computer child? I don't know, but it looks like it is,

Track 2: I feel like. I don't think it is. You don't think so? You think it's a puppet?

Track 2: I think it's a puppet with which one?

Track 2: I think the past, the ghost of Christmas past.

Track 3: I figured it was some like- It looks scary. Double exposure.

Track 2: Yeah i think it's double exposure yeah oh i'm sorry yeah i didn't mean to yeah

Track 2: it's some weird oh yeah double exposure stuff some weird uh practical effects

Track 2: okay well she's still scary definitely scary oh super creepy.

Track 1: They do i mean just in general the like the way they can make these movies look

Track 1: you know like you don't really like you have michael kane just like walking

Track 1: around normally and then you just kind of have the muppets existing sort of

Track 1: just normally and you just, it's...

Track 2: You totally buy it.

Track 1: Because, you know, the Muppets just lived in, you know, 1850s London.

Track 3: I liked how in Marley, the song, sorry, back to the banger Marley and Marley,

Track 3: when like they have Muppet chains on the Muppets, but then when they throw chains

Track 3: onto Scrooge, they're real chains on him instead of like Muppet chains.

Track 3: I like that little detail.

Track 2: I don't think I ever thought about that. Yeah. I guess the chains reflect who you are. Yeah.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: Beautiful.

Track 1: I can just constantly hear them doing the like, ooh, sound every time. So good.

Track 2: Well, they are personalized chains because they have like money boxes.

Track 2: And like in the book, it says the chains have like deeds on them and stuff.

Track 2: So actually, if they had deeds, I guess they were something to do with property.

Track 2: But yeah, Marley's chains had like deeds and stuff. Banks have the old property.

Track 3: That, and they're also saying, like, in the song, like, how they're like,

Track 3: oh, we forged all these chains with our evil acts and all this stuff.

Track 3: My own personal hell that they created for themselves.

Track 1: Or himself. Just one, remember? One Marley.

Track 2: No, it's two.

Track 3: It's Marley and Marley.

Track 2: The real version is two. We all know it.

Track 3: Yeah, this is the real version. Marley and Marley and big hand guy.

Track 2: Like...

Track 2: Big ham, God.

Track 3: We got it. We know the canon. We know the lore.

Track 1: I pulled up the lyrics to that song. And in the lyrics, they put Statler and

Track 1: Waldorf. So they're both speaking.

Track 1: But they screwed them. They screwed Waldorf in the actual credits.

Track 2: I don't even understand that. There's two Marleys. Why aren't they not crediting him? That's true.

Track 1: This is in Wikipedia. I wonder if it's different in IMDb.

Track 3: IMDb is just like Marley 2.

Track 2: They made up a name for him. He's Robert Marley, which now that I think of it,

Track 2: I don't know if that's a joke or not.

Track 2: Like Bob Marley. I don't know. Just a coincidence.

Track 3: I mean, he wasn't singing about like, don't worry, have a good time.

Track 2: He was not at all.

Track 3: Anything like that. No.

Track 1: Don't worry.

Track 3: Thank you.

Track 2: I think here on like the page, you know, it says Michael Caine to go back to

Track 2: like Michael Caine, like playing it straight, that he took inspiration for the

Track 2: role from Wall Street cheats and embezzlers.

Track 2: I thought they represented a very good picture of meanness and greed.

Track 2: It's like, yeah, man, that is, that's the deal.

Track 2: Yeah. Yeah. Nailed it. Yeah.

Track 1: Wait, so in the.

Track 3: You're starting to get it.

Track 1: In the IMDB credits, it lists Jacob Marley and Robert Marley.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: As it should.

Track 2: Yeah, he's got a name. As it should.

Track 1: So Wikipedia is not the good source of truth. I should have used Grokopedia instead. Grokopedia.

Track 3: Dude, you should have looked it up on Conservopedia. Are you kidding me?

Track 1: Wait, that's not a real thing.

Track 3: Now I got... Oh, yeah. Conservopedia is absolutely a thing. And now I got to

Track 3: look up fucking Christmas Carol on Conservopedia.

Track 1: I didn't know that was a thing. I don't...

Track 2: I did not know anything.

Track 3: You've never... Oh, my God. It's so terribly fantastic.

Track 2: Now, I want to talk about... I want you to talk about how...

Track 3: Fantastically terrible, one of the two.

Track 2: Your note on why Kermit works for Struge and if that makes him a bad person.

Track 1: So, I didn't finish writing what I was going to say there. It's like, I don't...

Track 3: Oh, there's a Christmas Carol article on Conservative Media?

Track 1: Wait, so you're asking me why do I say he is a bad person for working for him?

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Well, no, I don't think he is because the way I would see it is he needs a job,

Track 1: you know, in a, especially in this time in 1850.

Track 1: Like he was probably thankful he could get this job and not be working at a factory.

Track 1: You know, maybe he used to work in a factory. And this, this is a huge step

Track 1: up to be like, in theory, he seems to be kind of like the manager of the other

Track 1: little, like the rats who work at the shop or whatever.

Track 1: Maybe. Or something like that. So he doesn't live very well,

Track 1: but he doesn't make him a bad person. He's just doing what he's got to do.

Track 2: Kermit, I feel like Kermit is not allowed to be a bad person.

Track 2: Like, I don't think they would ever put him in a role that could be even slightly construed that way.

Track 2: Like, that's why, like, Kermit's got to be usually, like, the lead in a Muppet movie.

Track 2: But obviously, they're not going to make him Scrooge because...

Track 2: That's impossible, so he's got to be Bob Cratchit. The next biggest role.

Track 2: He wouldn't fit his ticket. No, no, no. Gonzo is.

Track 1: The only thing you can blame him for is not asking for a raise,

Track 1: although I guess he just assumed he'd never ask Scrooge because he would never give it to him.

Track 2: Yeah, he wouldn't even give them a piece of coal for the fire,

Track 2: so a raise probably felt like too far out.

Track 1: I thought it was hysterical, though, that later when Scrooge is giving all of

Track 1: the people their gifts, which also, where did he get all this stuff on Christmas

Track 1: Day when everything was closed?

Track 1: but he gives all of the rats like a back a basket of coal which in like modern

Track 1: day you think of the associate that is like that's a you got him cold for a

Track 1: gift but like they're like oh.

Track 2: Yeah i.

Track 1: Can not be cold.

Track 2: I cannot be cold yeah which is it's really kind of sad because he's just he's

Track 2: giving them a gift but it's really what they like should have had all along

Track 2: that's like that's not a gift that's like giving someone like toothpaste like

Track 2: you should just get that automatically right.

Track 1: That's true he's just yeah he's just like making up for all the things he didn't do.

Track 2: Right i think that's really what

Track 2: it what it's i feel like it doesn't even symbolize a gift so much as yeah.

Track 3: No it's just making.

Track 2: Up yes yeah didn't.

Track 3: They ask him for.

Track 2: Extra coal earlier it's less of a gift and more of a um a promise penance a

Track 2: penance yeah yeah because he gives money.

Track 1: To the charity and he gives them like enough to make up for the previous years when he.

Track 2: Didn't give the money what does conservopedia have to say about a christmas carol.

Track 3: Uh i gotta pull it back up it nothing terribly crazy.

Track 2: What could they have to say it's funny.

Track 1: Conservopedia won't open on my computer so.

Track 2: I'm just yeah a.

Track 3: Christmas carol is a charles dickens story about the transformation of a bitter

Track 3: miserly capitalist confronted by ghosts and quotations one fateful christmas

Track 3: eve the beautiful tale may be inspired by the parable of lazarus and the rich

Track 3: man in the gospel of luke And it's a very short article.

Track 2: Even they can't come up with anything. They're like, we're in a ride.

Track 2: Yeah, they can't come up with anything.

Track 3: Yeah, they've used miserably several times, so they're grasping at Shawsome.

Track 3: And there's no existing articles for any of the Muppets. No.

Track 3: Kermit and Miss Piggy don't even have pages.

Track 1: There is one on Grokopedia.

Track 3: So listening at home. Don't go to Grokopedia. You've got some free time.

Track 1: I just went to, I'd never been to Grokopedia in my life, but at the very front page, it's showing.

Track 3: The fact that you know about Grokopedia versus Conservatio.

Track 2: I didn't even know that existed.

Track 1: I only learned this very recently, but it's like, there's like little pop-ups for new edits.

Track 1: And it says, Elon Musk, new edit approved by Grok. It's like he is himself editing this page.

Track 1: Like I just, what's going on?

Track 1: They only have 1 million articles. What a joke. I'm sure they're all written by AI.

Track 3: Yeah, it's like all AI with Elon edits, which I mean, I guess it's a little bit more clear.

Track 3: You can go to Grokipedia and like article about China and be like,

Track 3: oh, it's Elon that hates China.

Track 3: Not fucking, not citation needed that hates China.

Track 1: No one made leftopedia or something? or I guess it's just marxist.org.

Track 2: Does anybody have any other final thoughts?

Track 2: Jackie, do you have any final thoughts on Love a Christmas Carol and what it

Track 2: can tell us about our current system of oppression and exploitatively?

Track 2: I think it's like we were saying. I think it's I think people need to pay a

Track 2: little more attention to the how you treat each other versus how you see Christmas.

Track 2: As much as I love Christmas, love a Christmas movie. I don't think that's the point. I would agree.

Track 1: I don't have any, my only final thoughts is that this should be at everyone's

Track 1: Christmastime, you know, movie rotation. Yeah.

Track 2: Yeah. I think people, you know, it is a kid's movie, obviously,

Track 2: and people think of it, but I feel like it's not just a kid's movie.

Track 2: Maybe it's because I watch it as a kid, so it's nostalgic, but I feel like it

Track 2: like holds your interest as an adult. Please.

Track 2: How is this a children's movie as opposed to just a movie?

Track 2: I'm not saying that's what I think.

Track 3: I would say this is more of a children's movie than something like Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Track 3: Like some people insist is a children's movie.

Track 1: Hey, I had that VHS as a child.

Track 3: Yeah, I did too. That didn't make me get this kid appropriate.

Track 2: Wow.

Track 2: I just, like, I don't think it's a children's movie so much as just,

Track 2: I think it's, like. I mean, this movie does have sexy chickens in it, so.

Track 2: I feel like it's just a movie that anyone can watch. I don't feel like it's aimed at children.

Track 2: Like, I can't think of a movie aimed at children now.

Track 3: No, I like the idea that this is, like, possibly the second sexiest children's movie behind.

Track 2: Yeah, yeah, obviously that's a good one. Yeah, like, I feel like,

Track 2: yeah, like, Trolls, sure, I've never seen a Trolls movie. Me neither. I just...

Track 2: I said Trolls 2. Trolls 2, sure. Like, Trolls 2, that's a kid's movie.

Track 2: Whereas, like, this... Any Muppet movie, the Muppets are for everybody.

Track 2: Yeah. The Muppets have no age, you know.

Track 2: Well, it's like how Pixar stuff, like, used to be, which is,

Track 2: like, it could be enjoyed by anyone, but, like, it was okay for kids,

Track 2: but adults would also enjoy it. I feel like that's the same kind of thing.

Track 1: Yeah. I get the sense like when they made it, it wasn't necessarily making it

Track 1: to be targeted towards kids.

Track 1: I actually saw someone post online like, oh, I tried to get my kids to watch

Track 1: Muppets Christmas Carol.

Track 1: And they were like into it until I got really excited. And then they stopped wanting to watch it.

Track 2: Because this seems like a you problem.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 3: Have you ever thought that maybe you're really fucking uncool and your kids

Track 3: recognize that? and then they go, oh, you like this? I should probably stop.

Track 2: I mean, the Muppets are like, in like Jim Henson world, the Muppets are like the adult stuff.

Track 2: Like Sesame Street is for kids and Muppets are like adults.

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, Dark Crystal is not a kids movie.

Track 2: No, it is not. Despite the fact that I watched The Desert Child many times.

Track 1: I did as well. Yes, not a kids movie, really, at all.

Track 2: Yeah, definitely a different time. which reminds me of another Muppets movie,

Track 2: Labyrinth, in which I saw someone recently post about how,

Track 2: The Labyrinth is a movie that glorifies pedophilia, and it's like,

Track 2: you seem to have missed the point that he's the bad guy.

Track 2: He's the bad guy. You might have a problem here.

Track 3: It's the same type of people that are like, Starship Troopers didn't do a good

Track 3: job of depicting fascism because the bugs are gross.

Track 2: Like, what?

Track 3: Buddy. Buddy. There's so much other stuff in there. Did you watch this?

Track 1: Oh boy i might need to re-watch dark crystal but maybe not with my.

Track 2: No no bill watched it as a kid and look how he turned out everything's fine

Track 2: like you got to do it when you're young we've talked about this we all yeah.

Track 3: Dark crystal if you think who framed roger.

Track 2: Rabbit's a kid they can.

Track 3: Watch dark crystal.

Track 1: It's tame by comparison is what you're saying.

Track 2: Uh you know maybe in regards there's there's less sex dark crystal is way darker

Track 2: um i think most you know most of the,

Track 2: the bad parts of dark crystal are going to be the same as like the most traumatic

Track 2: parts of such as melting a screaming cartoon shoe in dip but you're not going to get the uh you know,

Track 2: sexist baby slapping the ass of his nanny or jessica rabbit um you know you're

Track 2: not gonna get that you're just you're gonna get a big loss you're gonna i.

Track 3: Like how you just leave it at jessica rabbit just jessica rabbit being.

Track 2: Just yeah it's good enough yeah you're just gonna get all of the horror part

Track 2: of it in dark crystal you know podlings at least dark crystal will prep you.

Track 3: Because at least dark is in the name. Yeah.

Track 2: You know what you're getting into. Just walk into it.

Track 3: Sex. A lot of sex is not in the name of Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Track 2: This is the greatest interpretation of A Christmas Carol ever put to film, hands down.

Track 2: That's just true, though. I don't think that's an exaggeration.

Track 2: I think that's true. Some people disagree, and they're wrong. What else is there?

Track 1: There's a Will Ferrell one from a few years ago that I heard was terrible.

Track 2: Really? I don't remember that at all. Jim Carrey one.

Track 3: That sounds bad. That sounds bad.

Track 1: It's a musical where he plays Scrooge. It's like, that just doesn't sound interesting.

Track 2: No, it does not. There's the Jim Carrey one, and then there is Scrooged with Bill Murray. Oh, yeah.

Track 3: I was about to say, I feel like the only other one that could possibly be up

Track 3: there is Scrooged, but I haven't seen it in so long.

Track 1: What is the Will Ferrell one?

Track 2: We have a friend that claims that Scrooged is better.

Track 1: The one with Will Ferrell is called Spirited with Ryan Reynolds.

Track 2: I don't remember that existing.

Track 3: That doesn't sound great.

Track 2: That doesn't sound great. You know nothing about it other than the thing that

Track 2: Ryan Reynolds is. Who is Ryan Reynolds?

Track 1: It was an Apple TV movie.

Track 2: Who is he in that movie? Jackie, I love you. Who is Ryan Reynolds in that movie?

Track 1: Oh, never mind.

Track 2: I know who Ryan Reynolds is. I just wanted to know who the end of the movie.

Track 2: No, I know who Murphy Brown is, but I do not know who Ryan Reynolds was. I was like, oh.

Track 3: That's awesome. I love Jackie so much. She's so cool. Doesn't know who Ryan

Track 3: Reynolds is. I just want to know who he was. Oh, I'm so jealous.

Track 1: They made up a character named Clint Briggs. I don't know who that was.

Track 2: Of course. This is why I asked. What? This is why I asked, because Ryan Reynolds

Track 2: cannot play anyone but Ryan Reynolds.

Track 2: So I was like, who could he possibly be playing in that movie?

Track 2: And the answer is a character who is just Ryan Reynolds.

Track 2: Who the fuck? what the fuck,

Track 2: is that that's ridiculous the.

Track 1: Plot reading the plot of this sounds so horrendous it just looks I can't even

Track 1: hate watch this it sounds too bad.

Track 2: Because I don't think I can watch it if there's no cheeses I doubt there's nieces

Track 2: and cheeses not even worth it.

Track 1: There's no one else really oh Octavia Spencer is also in it god like what are you doing being.

Track 2: A hero really like she's a good actor but she will also be in fucking anything

Track 2: I kind of love that yeah I mean honestly Michael Caine Michael Caine was in,

Track 2: like, everything. Yeah, Michael Caine is the same way.

Track 2: Michael Caine is an incredible actor. He will also be in anything.

Track 1: Well, he could have stopped his career after this, and no one would have hated him for it.

Track 2: Absolutely. Fact. This is the peak. This is peak Michael Caine.

Track 3: Oh, absolutely.

Track 1: Awesome. Well, you've been— Jackie, thank you for joining us today.

Track 2: Thank you for letting me come talk about Muppets.

Track 1: Of course.

Track 3: This is good to have you.

Track 2: And historical context, my favorite thing.

Track 1: And you've been listening to Left of the Jector with Evan, Ward,

Track 1: and Bill. We'll catch you next time.