In this episode, you’ll hear Dr Mildred Ambani Songoro, a university lecturer and Land Use Planner, GIS Expert, and Cartographer with over ten years’ experience in Nairobi, Kenya. In this episode, Charity talks with her about why “planners come after God”, about what it means to teach urban planning in the aftermath of COVID, about her research on industrial gentrification in Nairobi, and how to prevent a PhD from giving you permanent head damage.

David Ehrhardt

Welcome to another episode of Africa Knows.

In this episode you'll hear Dr. Mildred Ambani Songoro, a university lecturer and land use planner, GIS expert and cartographer with over 10 years experience in Nairobi, Kenya.

In this episode, Charity talks with her about why planners come after God, what it means to teach urban planning in the aftermath of COVID about our research on industrial gentrification in Nairobi, and of course, how to prevent a PhD from becoming permanent head damage. Without further ado, here is Dr. Sungoro.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

I think for one, to be an academician or to be a… Wait let me say to be a scholar… before you become a real academician, it's one thing that knowledge is being imparted onto you.

So as it's being imparted on to you, there's a way you're also gaining more experience and being more knowledgeable for you now to be able to impart the same knowledge to the students.

So for me, what really interests me or what really makes me click is about imparting knowledge onto these young professionals or planners in the making. That's how I would put it that they are upcoming planners.

And it's my joy when I see every year that we are churning out graduates who are now ready for the market.

Charity Mwangi

Absolutely.

I think that is quite motivating for any academician just seeing that you are impacting young professionals and then you are able to propel them to that outer space and then they are able to make significant impact.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Spot on.

Charity Mwangi

And maybe perhaps just within the same topic, what is that one thing about your work that you know, ideally gets you to think and to talk? What is that that really excites you?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

I think when we say that planning as a profession, urban and digital planning, is multidisciplinary, multi sector, and we say that a planner is a jack of all trades. Why? Because you're an advocate, you're a politician, you're a land use planner, you're a sociologist.

And given that you are in the built environment profession, you have to learn so much for you to really focus on what you're doing. So you're not just focusing on the planning per se. You have so many other professions or disciplines that you are also touching on.

So that really makes me get excited about what I do as a planner. So because when I'm in class, I'm not only focusing on one field, I have to really touch on many other fields.

And even when I was studying, that was the same for me to be where I am. I have really learned many other disciplines which you have to know how they come together, how they interrelate, which one starts, which one ends.

Maybe as my professor Ubudo used to say, that a planner comes after God. So after God, then planners follow the surveyors and the other professions in the built environment.

For me, that makes me know that I am a very important professional in this society. Thank you.

Charity Mwangi

I think that's quite powerful, that as a planner you're able to know bits and pieces of everything and you're up to date and you know you have that new information as it comes in, and that's quite useful. Even as you train the young professionals, perhaps we'll delve a little bit into the conversation of teaching.

We'd want to know, you know, your experiences in teaching. So perhaps as we delve into that conversation, could you shed a bit of light on what a typical class is like for you?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Thank you Charity. First and foremost, maybe let me highlight on the unit that I teach and I'll just focus on the ones at Kenyatta University.

I teach second years planning theory and methodology. Then the third years I teach them urban planning principles and the same related to that, urban planning principles, we have the urban planning studio.

And the urban planning studio also comes in the first semester of third year and the second semester, then the fourth years I teach them professional practice and ethics. So maybe if I take, I would take an example of a theory class, then I'll give you of a practical class.

So for example, if I go to a professional planning and professional practice and ethics class for the fourth year students, I do not like just disseminating information to them. I like first giving them the topics. I put them into groups so that each group has a topic.

So for example, this semester I have 10 groups in the professional practice and ethics class, the fourth year class, and in these 10 groups we have a group concentrating on leadership. Another group is concentrating on conduct and ethics itself.

Another group has something to do with the who are the planning authorities and even the planning tools that we use and instruments that we use in planning. So if I would just focus on those. So when we come to class and it's a leadership class, a leadership group presenting, then I will have them.

The whole class has to read on that topic.

And when they come to class, for us now to interact on that topic, the group that has been assigned that topic have to come and present to the class after they have presented the rest of the class, then have to also chip in anything that that group has left out because they are not perfect. So one other student would get more information than the students themselves.

And after that I would ask questions to the group that presented and even to the class so that it's more interactive. I don't like it to be a monologue. I want us to interact.

And I've also come out of this giving students nots or slides so that they're just reading as you're teaching. So I want them to make their own notes. So I impress on them that they have to make their own notes.

Then after they have done the presentation, I've asked the questions, we have interacted.

The last thing I do is now for me to close on that topic by just running through all the subtopics and giving them what was required of this group and the class to present on.

And I get that to be more interesting so that even by the time they are coming for the exams, they are able to even just do the exams without going back to read. Because they read before the class.

We have interacted in the class and I also encourage them that very day or the following morning, they also go through what we did on that topic.

And that is how I'll deliver on a theory class, if I may speak, on the practical class, the Urban Planning studio for the third years, for example, this is the best. You want the students to get the practical skills on what planning is about. So in the second year they have a unit called Rural Studio.

So for them to come to the urban planning Studio, they must have passed the Rural Studio. So when we come to the studio again, because it's a practical course, you are teaching them how to get desktop data first.

And then after that they will prepare the instrument for data collection. We go through those data collection instruments together.

Then we will again plan to go to the field so that they can now go to the field to either validate or invalidate what they got from the desktop data. We come back and now do a thorough analysis using the relevant analysis tools that we have, like Excel, spss,....

We also collect data using the current techniques like the Kobo collect.

And after they do the analysis now they present the analysis again in groups of what we did in the field now relating to what we have gotten. And the end product is a situation analysis report.

After that report, then we'll go to the plan formulation after doing a synthesis and what we call a contextual analysis.

So after the synthesis, they prepare the plan and we are teaching them how to do an action plan for the various areas that they have plugged out from this area that they saw, the planning area that had a few challenges here and there. So that is how we deliver on a practical class. So it's mostly presentations, it's not about lectures. So they present.

We critique with my colleagues because we teach three of us the same unit. Thank you.

Charity Mwangi

Absolutely. That's quite powerful. And of course it demonstrates to how academics are also evolving to take up this process.

A very collaborative process of teaching. So the students are. Well have that granular information from the word go. And of course I see you are really simulating real life situations.

Given your examples, you really have demonstrated how you are simulating real life situations in a class setting to be able to prepare the students for what is ahead and perhaps as a build up to that, then how do you prepare students to, you know, to face that future labor market?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

So first we also we talk to them like mentorship of some sort as a department.

But also we invite professionals, like people from the county government, people in the professional practice to just come and give them a life example of what really happens out there, what is expected of them as planners or young professionals. So we make sure that they have a fast their hands on the practical skills.

But also getting more mentorship from those who are already in that field makes us give them the practical side of it and them knowing what is really expected of them when they go to the market. And also just making sure that they know that all is not rosy out there.

They have to really work hard in class so that in future then somebody can take them up to be their assistant so that they can now upgrade slowly by slowly to even reach a registered planner's profession.

Charity Mwangi

And are there maybe cases like internship referrals that you have for your students? I know I have interacted with Kenyatta University students about planning departments in, you know, in the professional space.

And I see most of them are recommended by the school itself. I think that is also quite a good model. I don't know whether you want to touch a bit on that.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Yes, yes, yes. Why? Because sometimes if you leave them to go look for the internship by themselves or we call them attachment, they might not get it directly.

So we also take it upon us because of knowing our colleague professionals and even the firms, we take it up on us to talk to them, maybe write letters and refer these students to the various firms, even including the county government and even the national government to the Director General. So we take them to various firms, even like I think the Slum Dwellers International we have taken students to which is this other firm I want to talk about. The real plans such like GEOdev, we have… So because they are our own colleagues, so we are able to talk to them and refer students to them so that they also give us feedback.

So from them we will get good feedback and know where we need to improve on as a department.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, absolutely.

And perhaps as you teach, I know given the various techniques that you have adapted in teaching, there must be some challenges that you experience in your teaching world. Could you kindly just elaborate a few to the audience?

What are some of the challenges that you experience while teaching and how do you go about addressing them?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

So maybe where technology is concerned, let me use even GIS Geographical Information Systems as a tool, which is very important to matters planning. So when you're teaching students, you would like them to grasp these skills because it's a tool.

However, you get that maybe we only have a few computers in the department or in the lab, and therefore not each and every student will be able to get one. And also most of the work is done by the students after class.

So after class, if a student does not have their own laptop, because they are not all coming from the same background and they're not able to all afford getting there to get a laptop to work on.

So the tools are good, yes, but they can only be proficient in these tools with practice, and the practice means that they should have a laptop on which they work. However, as we are teaching these tools or as we are disseminating it to them, not all of them again are interested.

So you will get in a group of 40, maybe only 15, 10 students will come out proficient because they want to know more, others are more pedestrian or just riding on others back so they don't take it up seriously.

But I think now when they go into the job market, then you get them hitting a rock and therefore want to come back and see how you can assist them on the upgrading of the same tools that they refused to learn when they were in school. But it's a good thing.

The tools are good, but we still do not want to get out of the traditional way of making plans and even just drawing by hand and making plans using the hand so that we don't embrace the new tools and forget about the traditional way. So somehow sometimes I want them to print the maps, do the sketches on them, then now we can transfer it onto the online platforms.

Charity Mwangi

All right. And perhaps tied to that, still looking at the conversation of challenges, of course there was Covid, which really affected everyone in the economy, including universities.

So perhaps I want to, you know, to know in brief, how did Covid impact your method of teaching and how did it also impact your students?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Thank you. For Kenyatta University, specifically during COVID it was like a first time going online way of teaching. Actually it was called blended teaching.

So we had to first formulate modules on how we will teach the students. We put all the materials online. So the lecturers were the first to be trained. So it took time, actually it took time for us to embrace this.

So the lecturers first had to be trained on how to teach online. Even on the lecturers themselves, there was a challenge on the elderly ones or the senior lecturers who also do not want to embrace technology.

But after we had the uptake, now when the students came on board, there was a problem of also them embracing the technology. Why? Some of them are coming from upcountry, some have never even had Internet where they come from.

And if they have a phone, maybe it is the phones that are not compatible with the apps that we are using like the Zoom and the Google Meet. So they are not able to log on to online.

So even if they have to log onto the online platform, still there's the Internet issue because of where they are. So you would get that it wasn't very okay because a student comes in before you know they have left.

So it was leaving and joining, leaving and joining, leaving and joining.

So by the time you're finishing the lecture, not all of them have gotten what you are teaching because there were breaks in between and therefore you wouldn't blame this it on the student and you don't want again to blame it on institution because we have to embrace this technology. So it's not like in the global north where this has already been embraced. So in the global South I think we are still struggling.

And even when immediately Covid was over and we went back to the face to face, they do not want to be taught online. They prefer the face to face because of the challenges they face.

But another challenge from the lecturer's point of view, some of them would log on to the system but they are not attending the class, the students are not attending. So when you call on to their name, they are not responding. So they logged on and are doing other things.

If you tell them to turn on their video, they will not accept. Even during exams. The exams was mandatory that somebody turns on the video but you can't hold it against them because of where they are.

So when you put the video on, it's again even it, it takes the bandwidth so much so that you can't keep on online throughout. So again they give that excuse so that they can also maybe do other things in the background. Yeah, so it was a challenge.

Charity Mwangi

It was a challenge, yes. And fast forward, how are you addressing some of these challenges within, you know, like the problem of having this blended learning.

You also mentioned the problems of students having maybe a few computers and the assignments have to be done after class. So how do you help students navigate through some of these challenges?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

It's a bit difficult, I would say comme sii, comme ca, if I use a French word, neither here nor there.

However, in as much as you want them to embrace that the technology when they are coming in like the first years, what we do when we are having that orientation process, we want to encourage them all to have their own laptops so that they are all not depending on the departmental computers now that it belongs to the pool.

So you want to encourage them and if possible you ask the students to give you their parents numbers so that you talk to their parents and tell them the importance of this student having their own computers. Why? even they doing assignments, you want it printed out. If not, you want the student to send you a soft copy. So they can only do that if they have their own laptop. So we encourage them to buy their own.

But those who can't, then they will use the ones in the department.

Charity Mwangi

Of course that this is something that will keep on improving over time because we see that the transition of academics in the Global South, it's quite significant and you know, it's quite useful to have, this bringing everyone on board so that students are able to really achieve that quality education.

And of course we are seeing the universities really working hard to even continue buying extra laptops to continue providing the necessary infrastructure that is needed by students. Thank you for the great work that you have been doing as a university, perhaps shifting focus a little bit to the component of research.

We'd be interested to know how you approach research and what are some of the research approaches that you incorporate in your academic space. And so perhaps the first question that I will ask you around this area is how do you, on a day by day basis, come up with your research topics?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

You mean research topics for our students?

Charity Mwangi

Yes. You could not look at it at the angle of your students.

How do you assist the students to come up with their research topics, especially for what you mentioned, like the regional studio. I know at some point they also conduct their urban studio and also the region studios. How do you help them in that angle?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

So maybe the research topics, I'll talk about when they're doing their research projects. At fourth year level, they do what we call a research project and it has to be planning oriented.

However, they have to start with the research methods, which is taught at third year.

So at third year, by the time they're doing the research methods, because it's the proposal that they're dealing with, they are somehow guided on how to formulate a proposal. And this proposal, we always encourage it to be the one to be carried forward to the research project.

So we allow them to choose a topic from whichever field they feel comfortable.

So after they've chosen that topic, then as their lecturers, we try and guide them on statement of that proposal topic, on how they do their problem statement and everything that appertains the objectives. So you make sure that you guide them accordingly. But we also just let them choose the topics by themselves.

Then they are assigned lecturers who are very, you know, every lecturer has an affiliation.

So the lecturers who have an affiliation in that field or topic that they have chosen are the ones who now supervise them and carry them forward to the end of completion of that research project.

Charity Mwangi

Absolutely, that's quite important that they also get that guided, you know, supervision. But now back to you. And maybe it would be interesting to understand what your research topics are as a lecturer.

What are some of those research interests that you have and perhaps for your work, how do you come up with your research topics?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Okay, so my PhD is on industrial gentrification. And I looked at it… Gentrification is a transformation of land uses. But it was mainly studied from a residential point of view.

So for me I had to change the angle and look at it from the industrial point of view. So most of the researches on gentrification are from the perspective of residential gentrification.

So I thought I should take a new angle of the industrial gentrification.

And because when I checked the references or the previous studies done on gentrification, they were all on residential and mostly in the global north. And in the global South, just a few countries like Nigeria, South Africa had done some researches in gentrification.

But again on residential, industrial gentrification is only in the global North. So I wanted to understand how then does industrial gentrification manifest in the global South. And therefore that's why I picked on Nairobi to be my research, Nairobi industrial area, to be my study area, so that I would see how it manifests. And why did I choose that? So that I can also see how that can also be used for studies in other Gllobal South cities.

Charity Mwangi

All right, so maybe just to understand the impact of your research is that you're hoping that, you know, by showcasing the industrial dentification and the transformation of land uses, this research can be able to inform evidence, informed decision making in other Global South cities. And apart from that, perhaps could you perhaps highlight to our audiences what are some of the other impacts that you anticipate from your PhD? Because I think it's quite interesting given that this is such a information gap that we have at the moment.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Yes.

Charity Mwangi

How do you envision that it will change the urban planning landscape?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Okay, first, you know, like when we are doing zoning from a planning point of view, every land use is assigned or is categorized and assigned at a given zone. So like for if we go with Nairobi city, the industrial zone has been designated and it was designated in the 1948 Master Plan.

But over time now with my study, it's unfolding that that has actually changed. So it is not entirely only industries in the industrial area of Nairobi.

So now there's mixed use development, there is a commercial, there's residential, and there are many institutions going into the industrial area of Nairobi. So I'm looking at how land uses can change over time and how an area that was only designated for industry has now changed into other land uses.

So for me, this will inform the planning arena. Maybe we need to embrace mixed use development. That's how I'm looking at it.

Maybe the panacea in this place, in this area is a mixed use development and not just insisting on one land use being in one area. Maybe the mixed use will do better because it's the economic benefit.

The return on investment is what people are looking at and that is why it has changed over time. And then when you look at the industrial area, also its proximity to the city, to the CBD Nairobi Central Business District. So maybe that's why.

So if you look at using the concentric zones theory, so it seems like the, the commercial land use is pushing out the industrial land use. So now the industrial will do better on the periphery than just next to the city.

It's still, it's now like it's at the core of the city and therefore it's being pushed out and that's why it's now being relocated.

So the other impact it has is that we are, it is manifesting that the industrial zone is now going to the other like the Athi Rivers, the Limurus and the eastern bypass and along Mombasa Road per se. That is where now they're moving out. So it's being pushed out because. Yes, yes, yes.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's quite powerful. Shifting from the conversation of development control to coordinated development promotion.

That's what is perhaps is currently varied in our system.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

But also now from development control perspective, the county also wants to make money it's revenue. So the planning department at the county has the mandate to also give money to the committee. How do they get that revenue?

By change of use application, subdivision applications which are approved by the county as they are approving, they're getting money as the developers are coming in. Also before the development begins. There's a way there. The county is again benefiting from the building plans. So it's a way of also the county making money. So who are they not to use this loophole to again make money?

Charity Mwangi

Chicken and egg situation. Yeah, absolutely.

I hope it will at least inform a lot of policy, important policy that can be able to lead to this coordinated development promotion that you anticipate to achieve. But perhaps as a follow up question still on that is the element of collaboration.

How important is it for you to collaborate with academicians and also with other social partners towards this research that you're currently conducting?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Of course other partners are important from an academic point of view. Of course I'm bringing in my professional input.

But also now when we go to the, let's say for example to the ministries that are concerned with matters like industry or industrialization, then again this is important because it will inform them on some decisions that they make in future.

Even how they allocate the land uses or how they deal with their matters industrialization, given that it's an economic driver for this country, the study will really inform them on many things. So because I have even the manufacturer Kenya Manufacturers association are a key stakeholder.

The Ministry of Industrialization is a stakeholder and the county itself is a stakeholder and the Ministry of Land.

So you get that all the these stakeholders, from a society point of view, there's a way they will gain from the output of the study so that in future then whatever decisions they are making, it will be very much informed.

Charity Mwangi

Absolutely. And are there any challenges you've encountered along the way?

Even as you continue finalizing your PhD as given that it's our example of your research topic. Are there challenges you've encountered in this collaboration or even some benefits that you'd likely mention.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Yeah, maybe let me just speak to the challenges because getting data like at some point when I was looking for the evaluation data, just to know the values of land in the industrial area and the surrounding, you get that people are a bit difficult to give you that information because they are not sure what you want to use that information.

You have the letter from the department showing that you are a researcher or you are a doctoral student, but still people are not willing to give you the information. Also, during the data collection, when you send the research assistant to the field and some of it I also collected by myself.

Like even during the pilot, you knock on some of the industries and they are not giving you chance to interview them. And even when you leave them the questionnaire, for example, for them to fill, they will not. They don't get back to you. Yes. They don't take action.

You send emails, they do not even give you back that information. So those are some of the challenges. But the benefits are that some of the people are still very… They inform you, very responsive.

The county government of the planning department in the county Nairobi, county government were very informative. The national chambers for the industries was also very important to me because they were willing to give me the information.

So that was very okay and very informative. So I did not really suffer getting the information that I want in as much as there were. Those are the limitations. But still I got the information.

Charity Mwangi

Yes, that's quite powerful. You miss some, you get some.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Yep.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah. So there are those.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

So you balance on how you do your analysis. Absolutely.

Charity Mwangi

And perhaps the plan B in case you don't get data from these key institutions.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Sure.

Charity Mwangi

And perhaps as we wind up on this component of the research, what topics would you advise the next generation of PhD students to focus on? Given that you're now in your, you know, you're doing your Ph.D. also in this academic space: What are some of those gaps you see that you know, students can really bridge quite well.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Okay. I would think I would borrow from the nature based solutions. I would say that is the way to go for our students in future.

And I think that is still tied on matters climate change. So I would really like because that is where we are going and that is what is happening. There is nothing that is static.

Everything has become very dynamic.

So I think the students need to foresee what will happen in the future and see how they can relate and have some solutions for these risks that are ahead of us and which are unforeseen so for example, even flooding that just happened in Nairobi the other day, it's not something that anyone ever anticipated.

So if we can see how that can be modeled and some studies on the same, just to see how they can be mitigated, I think that would really inform us as a country and even as a profession per se. So there are many fields.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

And also I would say residential gentrification has not been studied in Kenya.

So again, if my students would take it up, I even intend, when I'm doing my postdoctoral studies, I would like to go that way of looking at residential gentrification and maybe industrial gentrification in other cities in Kenya. So like in Mombasa, in Nakuru, in Aldore and Kisumu, because they also are very good industrial hubs.

Charity Mwangi

Yeah, absolutely.

I think this is quite powerful, especially you know, for both the residential gentrification and NPS nature based solutions, because we see part of these, these very heavy, hefty conversations are seen as side ons, unfortunately in parts of our cities. And even in policy you will not see a lot of mainstreaming of nbs and you'll also not see a lot of mainstreaming of residential gentification.

It's more of which zoning should be here and are people adhering to that. Therefore, these are quite timely conversations even for our young audiences.

And perhaps the last question, the last question for me will be what advice would you have for the next generation of PhD students? I know it's quite related to the first question, but what advice would you have to the next generation of PhD students and young academics?

Mildred Ambani Songoro

First and foremost, I would like them to focus. So I think any manner of studies. There are people who have done PhDs for 20 years, I think you even know some of them.

But if one focuses and gives themselves a timeline, I think it's very important because as we call it permanent head damage, it reaches a place whereby you don't even know which direction you are taking. Your supervisors are taking you this way, you are thinking this other way.

But so before you align yourself to be on the right path, you really need to be a focused student. Both at PhD level, at postgraduate level, at undergraduate level. It just needs a focus. And taking a topic of your interest is very important.

A topic that you will enjoy studying and researching on.

Otherwise, if you're forced onto a topic that you do not know about, or a field that is very new to you in a special one to adventure, it could be very difficult for you to finish what you you need to finish on that Ph.D. so for me, it's about focusing, focusing and focusing on the right study topics or fields that you really want to research on topics.

Charity Mwangi

The topics you believe will have impact in that area.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Yes. And most importantly, are you, are you filling any knowledge gap? Yes. If you are not and not making any value addition, then there's no need for that.

Yes.

Charity Mwangi

It could be the wrong topic for you. That's your cue to know it's the wrong topic.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

Yes. Yes.

Charity Mwangi

That's quite powerful advice to our young researchers and academics and of course, also very important advice to me as a young researcher.

Thank you so much for creating time to, you know, just give us insights about your experiences and the advice you're giving the young professionals. And we really appreciate your time. I don't know whether you have any questions for me. If you don't have any, we'll close it.

Mildred Ambani Songoro

At this point, I think I'm okay with everything for today. Thank you for the opportunity. Also that it can impact young professionals out there. I think that is also my joy.

Charity Mwangi

Thank you so much for creating time. I appreciate it.

David Ehrhardt

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