In this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash sits down with the multi-talented Greg Senyo—fly designer, author, outfitter and all-around fishy dude. From his early fishing memories in Girard, Pennsylvania, to building his brand, Schultz Outfitters and Montana Fly Company, Greg shares a candid look at his journey. They also discuss his latest endeavor, the Pack Mule 300, and Greg's unfiltered opinions on the fly fishing industry.

Greg reminisces about his early mentors and the traditional trout opener in Pennsylvania, sharing how these experiences shaped his passion for fly fishing. He talks about his transition to fly fishing, inspired by his best friend, and how he bought his first fly rod at a local buyer's fair. Greg also highlights the influential figures in his life, like Clyde Murray, who helped elevate his fly tying skills.

The conversation shifts to Greg's extensive career in the industry, from guiding and outfitting to developing signature flies and materials. He discusses his work with major companies like Orvis and Hareline, and how these opportunities helped him build his reputation. Greg also opens up about his decision to sell Steelhead Alley Outfitters and the importance of staying true to his character.

Marvin and Greg dive into the challenges and pet peeves of the fly fishing industry, touching on topics like social media, industry trends and the devaluation of talent. Greg shares his thoughts on the direction of the industry and the importance of maintaining authenticity.

Greg also talks about life changes, including his shift in priorities after starting a family and overcoming serious health issues. He shares the motivation behind his Pack Mule 300 charity hike, which raised funds for his sons' high school lacrosse teams, and the importance of setting an example for his kids through hard work and determination.

Don't miss this episode packed with honest insights, industry wisdom and a touch of humor as Marvin and Greg explore the highs and lows of a life in fly fishing.

Thanks to TroutRoutes for sponsoring this episode. Use artfly20 to get 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership.

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Helpful Episode Chapters

00:00:00 Introduction

00:01:30 Early Fishing Experiences and Mentors

00:07:00 Down the Industry Slippery Slope

00:09:15 The Birth of Steelhead Alley Outfitters

00:11:30 Industry Pet Peeves

00:14:30 Proudest Industry Contributions

00:16:30 Stepping Back from the Industry

00:29:40 Meeting Mike Schultz and All Things SO

00:36:50 Developing Fly Tying Materials

00:39:15 Montana Fly Company

00:46:00 Check Engine Light Moments

00:49:30 The PackMule 300

Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by fly designer, author, outfitter,

Intro: and all-around fishy dude, Greg Sanyo.

Intro: We start in Girard, Pennsylvania, and cover it all from early mentors to building

Intro: his brand, Schultz Outfitters, Montana Fly Company, and his latest endeavor, the Pack Mule 300.

Intro: Greg is never afraid to tell you what he thinks, so strap in for a little unvarnished seño.

Intro: But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.

Intro: If you like the podcast, please tell a friend, and please subscribe and leave

Intro: us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

Intro: And a shout out to our sponsor, Trout Routes. As I mentioned last time,

Intro: I've known Zach and the team at Trout Routes almost before Zach had a team at Trout Routes.

Intro: We all know streams are getting crowded, and chances are you're not the only

Intro: one at your local access point.

Intro: Get away from the crowds and busy gravel lots by using Trout Routes Pro with

Intro: over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more.

Intro: Trout Routes has all the data you need to help you find angling opportunities

Intro: that others will overlook. look.

Intro: Up your game and download the app today. Use code ARTFLY20, A-R-T-F-L-Y-2-0,

Intro: all one word, for 20% off your Trout Routes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com.

Intro: Now, on to our interview.

Marvin: Well, Greg, welcome to the Articulate Fly.

Greg: Thanks for having me, man. It's good to hear your voice. I hope you had a good day today.

Marvin: Yeah, it was good. You know, I've been digging out. I was slacking last week

Marvin: out fishing, so I'm kind of back in the saddle, but glad we were able to make this happen.

Marvin: We have a tradition on the Articulate Fly, Greg. We like to ask all of our guests

Marvin: to share their earliest fishing memory.

Greg: Earliest oh man um i have to

Greg: go all the way back to being like

Greg: six seven eight years old opening

Greg: day of trout season in pennsylvania with my dad you

Greg: know we used to get up super early go to the uh legion

Greg: park in uh in gerrard and

Greg: have this community breakfast before

Greg: you would get down on the river and uh

Greg: you know it brings back memories all that kind of stuff

Greg: when you you ask what your earliest memory you know the smell of salmon eggs

Greg: in a jar salted minnows you know guys putting grubs on all that ultra light

Greg: fishing for stock trout you know it's kind of the first place i fell in love

Greg: with everything elk creek was uh just the atmosphere of uh that that traditional

Greg: uh trout opener in pennsylvania yeah.

Marvin: And you probably ate enough pancakes that you felt too sick almost to fish right.

Greg: No i i was i could shovel it in when i was a little man i could never get enough

Greg: i was hungry 10 minutes later yeah.

Marvin: Uh link sausages too i imagine right.

Greg: Oh oh yeah 100 and.

Marvin: They weren't the turkey.

Greg: Link sausages just for the record folks no oh no oh no it was a giant pile of the good stuff.

Marvin: Yeah. And so, uh, so Greg, when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing?

Greg: You know, it was still, still really young. It's, uh, I was lucky.

Greg: I had, uh, I had a best friend that, uh, Jason Gregory is his name,

Greg: but he, uh, he was fly fishing and he was, uh, kind of that first person I saw doing it.

Greg: And I wanted to do that. And, uh, that's how I would say I got into it.

Greg: Then I went up to we had a buyer's fair in Girard and I bought myself a Martin

Greg: Rod and reel combo from them.

Greg: When you got Elk Creek at your feet, at that time, it was full of Coho,

Greg: Kings, Brown Trout, you had Steelhead.

Greg: You know it was like the best place you could grow up as a young kid on the fly fish.

Marvin: Yeah it's kind of funny those kind of good old days where you were kind of turned

Marvin: loose as a kid right 100 right like and it's kind of funny like you know no

Marvin: one was worried about you getting abducted um you know all you had to do was

Marvin: kind of be home you know by dark right.

Greg: Well, that's the nice thing with small communities, too. You know,

Greg: everybody's kind of spread out and live in different areas.

Greg: You know, Jason used to live right above the hill on this side.

Greg: I lived in town on that side of the creek, you know. So, it's sun up till sun down.

Greg: I mean, you were always a quick walk to somebody's house to get a ride if you

Greg: needed one. So, it was perfect.

Marvin: Yeah. It's pretty cool. Does anyone kind of come to mind that you would say

Marvin: kind of mentored you on your fly fishing journey? You can have more than one.

Greg: Yeah you know i didn't really have the traditional mentor like like you know

Greg: the use of the term for i like i said i think i would credit my friendship with

Greg: uh jason here you know he was always uh,

Greg: wanting to explore and he was like he had the same energy i did he wanted to

Greg: fish every waking moment of our youth just how how many days and how many hours

Greg: can we spend out there especially during steelhead.

Greg: That was, uh, that was pretty much the pinnacle point that set everything in motion for me.

Greg: Um, if I had to credit somebody, you know, I would, I would credit,

Greg: uh, Clyde Murray, uh, which worked up at Follies and fly shop.

Greg: Um, he was a gem, you know, it's sad that he's not around anymore.

Greg: He could have benefited a lot of people still today, but he took my fly tying

Greg: skills to another level and gave me the motivation and, Gave me some determination

Greg: to go ahead and have the courage to do some of the different things I wanted to do.

Greg: So those would be, you know, the people that early on, like kind of helped give

Greg: me, uh, you know, that energy to keep going.

Marvin: Yeah. And I would imagine too, kind of given the time period,

Marvin: that was probably a truly kind of old school fly shop, right?

Greg: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're talking 500 square feet, you know,

Greg: just a small little place right next to the river.

Greg: And then it's all event is a campground, which still is. It all exists today.

Greg: You can still go to the fly shop. You can go to the campground.

Greg: And it's like one of those like out of a storybook, you know,

Greg: just that small little shack on the river, you know, surrounded by campers and

Greg: tents. and you know it's like the perfect place to go.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting too right so you know if we fast forward a little bit

Marvin: you got absolutely sucked into the uh to the belly of the beast and you've been

Marvin: a guide you've been an outfitter you're an author fly tire and fly material designer,

Marvin: can you tell us a little bit about kind of how you started sliding down that slippery slope.

Greg: Yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's a long ride. You know, I look at it from how,

Greg: how I see things get done today to how we used to do them back then.

Greg: I mean, you know, it's, it started for me, it just being a young kid tying slides

Greg: and I, for my local fly shops and,

Greg: you know, that goes to getting notice from authors that are at that time,

Greg: you know, putting their books and their magazines and

Greg: stuff inside the stores so i got noticed by like

Greg: matt sapinski john naggy some

Greg: of those people and then i started getting put in like flatfishman magazine

Greg: and their articles their books and uh it was it was just really as a young kid

Greg: it's just really cool to you know to see your stuff you know get noticed like that,

Greg: And then from there, you know, I started guiding.

Greg: I had an opportunity. I don't give this gentleman that much credit and I don't

Greg: know why, but John Matthews, you know, kind of showed me the finer points of guiding.

Greg: You know, he at least gave me a template that I can, you know, that I used and used.

Greg: You know put my own spin on it how i wanted to provide a level of service at the time but i uh,

Greg: you know i was grateful for for that kind of introduction in the guide world,

Greg: you know and then from there but you get you get endorsed by major companies

Greg: like you know for example i got i got endorsed by orvis i won the fly tower of the year um,

Greg: i was given an opportunity to develop my own signature flies materials through orvis and hairline,

Greg: And that helped me use my reputation to pretty much put my name in every fly shop in the country.

Greg: And doing that with my material branding and my branding in general,

Greg: I was able to form Steelhead Alley Outfitters.

Greg: You know then you know from there you know i i started guiding out uh we used

Greg: to we took over guiding for uh many of the local uh fly shops and provided their

Greg: steelhead guiding for them and,

Greg: eventually we uh we just brought all

Greg: of our services in house we just preferred to keep a

Greg: higher level of service you know then

Greg: you know you do the normal stuff you continued lecturing you know meeting people

Greg: writing consulting i you know developed more stuff with inside the industry

Greg: for for several other companies um you know like i did stuff with up and and uh and flyman so.

Greg: You know i started to focus on the success of my team and my company and i kept

Greg: it that way you know decided to uh you know try to lead from the front set a

Greg: good example and And, you know,

Greg: I just never compromised with any of my competition,

Greg: you know, and then I ended everything with, you know, I wrote my own book,

Greg: which it's pretty rare these days, you know, to, uh,

Greg: To have a book like mine, when best new book at ICAST and, you know,

Greg: mistakes and all, you know, so I was pretty, pretty happy with that.

Greg: And, you know, I stayed true to myself and I put in a ton of hard work and long

Greg: hours with really very little sleep.

Greg: So, and that kind of, you know, puts you into where you're at now and how hard

Greg: you want to push, push moving forward. word.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too, right? Cause that culture is certainly durable because,

Marvin: you know, I know you sold SEO, but you know, Patrick and those guys are still

Marvin: running the same program the same way and being very, very successful.

Greg: Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, you know, all those guys, you know,

Greg: all the, everybody plays, plays an important role in anything that you do.

Greg: And, you know, Patrick, you know, has been with SEO since the beginning.

Greg: So So I really don't expect anything less from him.

Greg: And not only that, they put their own new age kind of spin on it.

Greg: And I think that that's been very welcome, too.

Greg: So, you know, you know how it is. You know, sometimes out with the old, in with the new, right?

Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting, too, right? Because you have a reputation

Marvin: for being mildly opinionated, right?

Greg: I'm totally opinionated.

Marvin: And so I thought it would be interesting, you know, when I get someone who's

Marvin: been around the industry so long to kind of get their thoughts on,

Marvin: you know, direction of the industry, industry pet peeves and stuff like that.

Marvin: Is there anything you'd like to share with our listeners?

Greg: Oh, so we're okay. So if we're going to do pet peeves, I'm going to scroll through

Greg: a bunch of lists right here. You ready?

Marvin: I'm ready.

Greg: We'll start at the top. So anybody born after Generation X, how's that?

Greg: That so anybody in this industry after gen x

Greg: i really don't don't like me so just so

Greg: you know um any any type

Greg: uh any type of fishing shirt with a broidery below

Greg: the shoulder and especially like conch chickens

Greg: or shrimp i mean you just look like an asshole i don't

Greg: like that kind of shirt you know any uh any

Greg: toy out of tacoma i mean tell me you're a fishing guy

Greg: without telling me you're fishing at right you know so youtube

Greg: uh you know fly shop professors think they need to teach me something every

Greg: day i can't wait to see a video on dude white you know like do we really need

Greg: it but i'm sure somebody will show us how to use them you know i'm not a fan

Greg: of social media handles you know i call them warning labels i don't i don't

Greg: like the public a figure,

Greg: board member, pro staffer, life coach.

Greg: I encourage people to try to remember it's not a job interview.

Greg: It's not a dating site. It's not an AA meeting.

Greg: Just use your real name. It's okay just to be yourself. Treat it like an introduction.

Greg: I'd rather know who I'm talking to than some weird name or phrase or somebody

Greg: trying to give me advice in the first second that I notice you.

Greg: So any type of flytire that uses epoxy on dry flies, that is not art.

Greg: That isn't a merger. I'm just letting you know.

Greg: Any type of fly fishing content that comes out of a fly fishing company, it is horrible.

Greg: If you do any type of watching social media, I usually, when I'm in the restroom, it is not bad.

Greg: So anyone old enough to need readers and using Barbie dolls in their flytire

Greg: videos, there's a lot of red flags there.

Greg: That dude's definitely on ebb speed's list so anyways i could get as crazy with

Greg: this as you want man i mean i have lots of pet peeves just like anybody else

Greg: you know i don't like people driving the left lane i don't like people popping

Greg: movie theater we can go on and on man you know how this works well.

Marvin: I don't want to get you uh too spun up because we got a fair amount of wood

Marvin: to chop you you know um the uh but i but it's interesting too right so you know

Marvin: of all the things that you've contributed to the industry and we'll carve out the pet peeves.

Marvin: It's kind of like a Letterman's top 15 list.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. You know, what are you most proud of and why?

Greg: I mean, the most proud thing is just, you know,

Greg: being able to provide the materials I've been able to do

Greg: over the years and just seeing so many people that

Greg: are using it for how long they've been using it you know

Greg: i'm i'm really proud of that i mean i number one thing

Greg: is being what everybody else comes up with

Greg: from that so if i had to had to

Greg: pick one thing that i would say what is the most proud that would be

Greg: it you know but but i

Greg: am proud of a couple other things as well you know i'm proud

Greg: of the small number of lifelong friends i've made you know

Greg: friends i've gained as being a part of this industry and um

Greg: i'm really happy i kind of stayed true to my character like you know who i was

Greg: as a person a guide as a tire as a friend as as a part of my community um i

Greg: listen you know i try to help where i can i make myself available to anyone

Greg: who seriously wants my help,

Greg: but at the same token you're gonna you know if you ask me for advice you better

Greg: like you know understand the kind of answer you're going to get.

Greg: So, you know, it's just the way it rolls. So I'm proud of all of those things

Greg: that I didn't have to fake it. You know, it kind of just did me.

Marvin: Yeah. It's funny you say that because when people ask for my opinion at this

Marvin: point now, I almost feel compelled to say, do you really want,

Marvin: you know, some constructive feedback or you want me to just affirm you?

Greg: Yeah. You know, it's almost fair that you have to do that.

Greg: It just saves you a lot of time and not giving somebody good advice if they're not going to take it.

Marvin: Yeah. And then they walk away butthurt and you're a bad guy.

Marvin: So, but yeah, it's interesting too, right?

Marvin: So, you know, I've listened to, you know, preparing for this.

Marvin: I always listen to folks' previous interviews.

Marvin: And, you know, I know there was a point at which you realized you were spending

Marvin: too much time in the industry and you needed to shift your priorities.

Marvin: I was wondering if you could tell us a little about, you know,

Marvin: what happened for you to kind of come to that decision?

Greg: I mean the number one thing that that happens is

Greg: you you grow up and you know i

Greg: had a family you know and you know

Greg: none of you know i i look at you know everybody

Greg: thinks like everybody's friends in the fly fishing industry

Greg: right like i don't think they they

Greg: understand that like most people don't

Greg: even know most people's background i mean

Greg: you learn some but you don't know you don't truly know

Greg: what people are you only know who they are through their fishing so for

Greg: me having a family and having kids you know

Greg: that kind of screws that light bulb in and like that's the time where it's like

Greg: i have to shift my priorities and and the main reason for that is like i was

Greg: i was kind of raised in a broken family you know um my mom had moved on while

Greg: we We were young, you know, it, it, it was, uh,

Greg: it was a very hard time for, for my brother and I, you know,

Greg: but then you take little pieces of that and you kind of carry it with you everywhere you go.

Greg: You know, I just, I don't want to have, I don't want my kids or my wife or anybody

Greg: to deal with that. You know, I don't want to miss my kids sports.

Greg: You know, I kind of like being a homebody.

Greg: Um, you know, don't, don't take me wrong. I had a good childhood,

Greg: you know, like my family was excellent. They made the best out of everything,

Greg: you know, and my extended family is like a welcome, you know what I mean?

Greg: So, but like I said, you carry little bits and pieces of everything with you

Greg: and like you start using those to compare, you know.

Greg: When you're raising your own kids, you can only go by what you know or what has happened to you.

Greg: You have your own story to live, your own mistakes to make, and your own victories to celebrate.

Greg: So you just got to jump in two feet.

Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because I think having those situations in your

Marvin: childhood, if you can use them as motivation and drive, right? Right.

Marvin: Like, you know, I had some things kind of in my childhood and it's kind of like,

Marvin: you know, to your point, like I wouldn't

Marvin: want my boys to go through any of that, but it's made me who I am.

Marvin: And I don't know how I would be sitting here talking to you today in the way

Marvin: that I am if I hadn't gone through that stuff.

Greg: No, it's 100 percent right. Right. And, you know, another key point to look

Greg: at this with your kids is like to be really a good fishing guide or to be invested in this industry.

Greg: Like you got to be a hundred percent in, you know, and I, I wasn't,

Greg: you know, kind of willing to not be able to show my kids, you know,

Greg: archery, backpacking, hunting, camping.

Greg: You know the other things that you know i kind of had to give up to stay fishy

Greg: right you know what i mean you know so those were also like contributing factors on on uh,

Greg: Wanting to dial it back, start spending time.

Greg: And you know what? I'm enjoying myself more. My kids are enjoying themselves

Greg: more. I don't miss anything.

Greg: You know what I mean? So I'm not disappointed by that.

Marvin: Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I mean, gosh, we could have a complete podcast

Marvin: series on parenting and raising kids.

Marvin: You know, Greg, I was kind of wondering if, you know, kind of in this whole

Marvin: shift, you know, did you ever kind of hit a wall or kind of feel like a line

Marvin: was crossed that kind of kept pushing you in a certain direction.

Greg: Absolutely i mean

Greg: you know i hate to say it i you know

Greg: there was a time where i kind of let other people you know

Greg: kind of influence influence kind of what i was going to do

Greg: or what i was going to say i just don't allow that

Greg: anymore but you know when when people

Greg: and companies and stuff don't you know didn't appreciate

Greg: your investment any longer you know i just i

Greg: didn't i didn't want to feel that way you

Greg: know what i mean i was tired of being being angry at

Greg: that and you know the years of loyalty and service i felt like they weren't

Greg: appreciated and uh then you started seeing the devaluing of industry talent

Greg: in favor of the theatrics and the fakeness you see on the media like it just

Greg: just wasn't a path i was willing to take.

Greg: You're just continually hassled by companies and customers that feed them content daily.

Greg: I even was told that I'm in risk of losing my value and my reputation over,

Greg: So all the years of work, all the hard work, effort, and everything else,

Greg: I'm going to lose that if I don't stay relevant on social media.

Greg: Could you guess what my answer to that was?

Marvin: Yeah, it probably starts with an F, right?

Greg: Yeah, it was, fuck you.

Marvin: Straight up. Yeah. That was it.

Marvin: Yeah, but, you know, that's an interesting thing, Greg, because,

Marvin: I mean, I see this, you know, in the industry where,

Marvin: you know, a lot of people are – well, first of all, I would say a lot of these

Marvin: guys could rule the world if they would return phone calls and emails.

Marvin: Like, that would be kind of point number one, right, which takes us back to being a Gen Xer, right?

Marvin: But I would say, you know, one of the things that is interesting to me is I

Marvin: think, you know, I think a lot of people start in the industry and they're really

Marvin: young, right? Right. And so they're hustling. Right.

Marvin: Like probably like you and I did when we were like hustling as kids,

Marvin: cutting grass and paper routes and all that sort of stuff.

Marvin: And, you know, they don't want to say no to anything.

Marvin: But the problem is you fast forward 20 years and you put the time in and they

Marvin: still interact with people like they're 18 years old.

Greg: Yes, very much so.

Marvin: Right. And so it's like, you know, they feel like they have to do everything

Marvin: and they never, to your point, stop.

Marvin: And say, why am I doing this this way? If I, you know, I am more valuable,

Marvin: like, you know, why am I valuable? It's because I've invested in myself, right?

Marvin: You know, it's not because I'm posting stuff prolifically on social media.

Marvin: Yeah, dude, I think it's a fascinating thing. I mean, and so,

Marvin: you know, those are, you know, it's always interesting, right?

Marvin: You know, I always say the fishing is just the bicycle for the interview and

Marvin: the conversation, but there's a lot of like life stuff there. Right.

Marvin: And so, you know, kind of curious, you know, how you kind of put that all together and made it work for you.

Greg: I mean, I mean, you, you identify number one that, you know,

Greg: you don't like this stuff, right.

Greg: This, this extra curricular stuff that kind of got added to the fishing world.

Greg: So, you know, for me, I just quit listening to people, you know,

Greg: I don't walk around lacking self-confidence.

Greg: I work, which many know, maybe some don't, but I was a police officer for over 20 years as well.

Greg: So you kind of get to the point where you've been through enough that you can

Greg: start making choices and live with consequences.

Greg: You know, it's...

Greg: You know, it came down. I just wanted to do me, even if it meant doing it alone.

Greg: Like I just didn't have the stomach to, to be a part of the circus.

Greg: And, um, that's how I made it work for me. And then I started doing all the other things.

Greg: And then when I was fishing, you know, I was starting to enjoy fishing again.

Greg: You know, like when I tie flies now I tie them cause I, I want to tie and I

Greg: enjoy it and I'm going to use them for something.

Greg: You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not just tying to have a whole bunch of them laying around anymore.

Greg: So I get way more, way more enjoyment out of it, you know? And then,

Greg: uh, I do, you know, I do other fishing things too.

Greg: You know, I fished a year now a little bit, which I gave up for all those years

Greg: of fly fishing, you know?

Greg: And I look at it this way is I'd rather be happy in a well-rounded angler than

Greg: a miserable fly, miserable flying.

Greg: You know, there's a lot of miserable fly anglers out there.

Greg: Like i don't like you know i'm just

Greg: if you could see me right now i'm sticking my foot out like get

Greg: away from me you know what i mean like i don't uh i don't want to be around

Greg: that you know what i mean so you know and then not only that you know like you

Greg: know everybody i see it's like everybody's looking for some type of personal

Greg: challenge you know i hunt more than i fish

Greg: and i do this in places my phone don't

Greg: work um go go do

Greg: something where you got to think for yourself for the

Greg: actions of your day or the six what you gauge the success of your day is in

Greg: your hands you know that's the one thing i love about hunting versus fishing

Greg: right now is fishing i felt like i was rewarded every day i could get a fix

Greg: every day even a bad day of fishing i was successful.

Greg: You know, hunting, you could go weeks, months,

Greg: you can, you make decisions because it's based on life and death and,

Greg: you know, it's a food source and there's, there's other things at stake. You know what I mean?

Greg: You know, it's more adult for me is the way I look at it.

Greg: It's more satisfying for me mentally to, to, to do those kinds of things.

Greg: You know helps me block out all the noise you know so that's how you make it work for you.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting right because i guess one of the ways i say something

Marvin: similar is you know if you're truly lucky you get to pick the hill you're going to die on,

Marvin: 100 yeah and i think the interesting thing too is um and you probably saw this

Marvin: is when you started being you and not being who people wanted you to be,

Marvin: that you probably became even more successful.

Greg: You know, if I'm being fair on that question, like more successful in the sense

Greg: of I was a much happier person.

Greg: I had less, like I said, noise when I started doing everything,

Greg: how I wanted to do it and not taking in consideration anybody else.

Greg: You know what i mean or you know

Greg: made it about team and family and my atmosphere

Greg: above all else right you know that was

Greg: a lot easier than trying to deal with what everybody else wants you to do so

Greg: if that's what you mean by being more successful i i agree because you know

Greg: it made me more focused made you happy and like when you're happy you're better

Greg: you do better on all fronts when you're happy.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Right. So I've got my oldest son is a rising senior

Marvin: in college and talking about like, you know, find that thing that fulfills you

Marvin: and it will make your days a whole lot easier, you know?

Greg: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. That's, uh,

Greg: I wish I would have found that younger, you know, like for me,

Greg: I wish I, it's so funny as you look at this whole thing, like when you're,

Greg: when you're young and you're getting into this, you're like super excited.

Greg: Your energy level and your stoke level are like super, super high, right?

Greg: And even as you get older, you

Greg: don't lose that. You don't lose that enthusiasm, but you do lose like that.

Greg: Iron wall you put up you know what i mean like you just don't have the youth

Greg: as you get older to like continually want to fight the same kind of battle over

Greg: and over and over and over again,

Greg: so like if i could go back like go back to the day and at one point where it's

Greg: like you know took the red pill versus the blue pill right if i could go back

Greg: to that point you know that there is a part of me that would take the other

Greg: pill and just keep fishing fishing,

Greg: just keep it fun you know not make it

Greg: part of my job or my livelihood

Greg: or you know keep it exactly

Greg: you know what what it was when we

Greg: all start and decide that we want it to be more as it's a hobby be you know

Greg: it's something we love to do to to uh take the way all the pain from all the

Greg: hours of work so anyways you know and.

Marvin: So you know you of the many hats that you wear one of the hats is you're the

Marvin: general manager at schultz outfitters and um you know just like some folks uh

Marvin: you know may not have known that you were a cop in your prior life they may

Marvin: not know how you and you know mike uh got hooked up and how you ended up at so well.

Greg: Many many moons ago i used to go up and do fly time classes at uh colton bay

Greg: which was uh just outside of ann arbor and mike was the was the store manager

Greg: there so you know we kind of hit it off the first couple times we ever met and And over time,

Greg: I asked Mike if he was willing to come down and guide for me at Steelhead Alley

Greg: Outfitters, you know, for the Springs.

Greg: And he did. You know, he came down for years to help us run our guiding and stuff over there.

Greg: And, you know, eventually he was like, hey, man, you know, like someday I'm

Greg: going to open a store. And he's like, if I ever do that, would you help come run a store with me?

Greg: And I made that promise.

Greg: And, you know, like our friendship has grown to be, you know, almost like family.

Greg: So here we are, you know, I'm at the shop.

Marvin: Yeah. And so how many years ago was it when you first met Mike?

Greg: Well that's like putting a guy on the spot you know it's like my wife asking

Greg: me what the date of our anniversary is gonna check my calendar for that um,

Greg: Early 2000s, somewhere around there. Yeah, yeah.

Marvin: Yeah.

Greg: Yeah, a long time. You know, it's been 20 plus more years, maybe a little longer.

Marvin: Yeah. In particular, as you get older, that's super cool.

Marvin: And, you know, one of the things that really struck me, I had a chance to,

Marvin: you know, meet you in person at Bob in the Hood earlier this year.

Marvin: And, you know, you kind of, you know, to your point, you see the Internet stuff,

Marvin: but then you have to be in the store to see the real stuff.

Marvin: And and i you know i was in absolutely blown away i mean i've been in tons of

Marvin: fly shops i fished with lots of people but i was really blown away at the culture

Marvin: uh inside schultz outfitters and i was kind of wondering you know if you could talk a little bit about,

Marvin: you know what you and mike and the rest of the team have done there that makes

Marvin: you different from other shops and outfitters i.

Greg: Think you said it right there it's team is

Greg: everything thing um our whole team

Greg: can walk the walk you know there we have

Greg: everything that we need to to have a successful business like

Greg: some of our guys are college educated in

Greg: business you know we have good fishing guides we

Greg: have great instructors with fly tires we have innovators developers entertainers

Greg: travelers and most importantly we're all anglers like continually we on the

Greg: water you know or have some kind of hurt to play you know related to fishing so you know.

Greg: That uh that alone eliminates 90

Greg: of the fly shops that are out there they don't have

Greg: that okay and then on top of

Greg: that we just focus on us we focus on our

Greg: local fisheries but we excel sell everywhere you know

Greg: we are we're about our warm water fishing opportunities

Greg: how many fly shops do you go to that has a focus on smallmouth

Greg: card moss and pipe you know

Greg: it's not most of the places when you associate a fly

Greg: shop you think a trout we can do that we do do that but

Greg: it's not uh it's not our

Greg: main focus so i

Greg: think uh i think that's why a lot of people you know come

Greg: visit us and they trust us is because we're we're

Greg: very honest we're super hard working you know

Greg: the uh customers that we tend to to deal with are fishing people in their own

Greg: right you know like these guys are traveling they're doing things they're going

Greg: all over they're fishing with talent across the country if not across the globe you know so you uh.

Greg: You thrive in that kind of atmosphere.

Greg: And then even the new people that are walking through the door,

Greg: like most of the ones that we see, they have a desire to become those type of pushy people.

Greg: We're lucky from that standpoint that we have that kind of customer wanting to come see us.

Greg: We focus that we're going to continually maintain a high degree of personal

Greg: education and expectations when you come to the store.

Greg: Just think of all the things I just said. I'm just highlighting our team and

Greg: what we can do on our storefront.

Greg: We don't even have an online store yet. And we're pretty much keeping up with everybody else.

Greg: Just think when we do open the online store. And you know what?

Greg: Someday, shortly down the road, that's going to happen.

Greg: So we don't need that bullet yet. We're saving it for when we're ready and choosing

Greg: to be more of the place that you should want to talk to us.

Greg: You should want to ask us questions. You should let us help you pick out new

Greg: gear. You know, that's what all the years of hard work have given our local community.

Greg: And that's the one thing I love about being a part of this whole industry is this aspect right here.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting because I would say Schultz Outfitters is probably one

Marvin: of the few places that I would buy natural materials from sight unseen and trust

Marvin: that I was going to get what I wanted when I opened the envelope.

Greg: Oh, yeah, because we're going to handpick it for you.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, in the team, things impressive.

Marvin: I can remember, gosh, I mean, it's been in the early years of the podcast, I interviewed Mike.

Marvin: And I remember one of the things that was really memorable from that interview,

Marvin: I mean, because it's probably been five years ago, four years ago,

Marvin: was, you know, his desire for

Marvin: the store to be successful was because he wanted to take care of his guys.

Marvin: Right. And he wanted to be able to have a house and raise their families and

Marvin: be in the community. And I thought that was like, you know, unusual.

Marvin: And I mean, to our point, kind of some of the things we've talked about the

Marvin: industry being something that's kind of rarer and rarer today, right?

Greg: Well, when you have that kind of leadership, why would you not want to want

Greg: to work with somebody like that?

Greg: Somebody that's going to have, you know, a general interest in his own people.

Greg: Like there's a, there's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of opportunities to work for

Greg: people that aren't like that. And I can attest to it because I've worked with

Greg: a lot of those people before. You know what I mean?

Marvin: Yeah, I'll compare tattoos with you the next time we get together.

Greg: There you go.

Marvin: So, you know, kind of pulling back to the tying, you kind of mentioned some

Marvin: of the companies at the beginning of the interview.

Marvin: But, you know, you've had the opportunity to work with kind of,

Marvin: you know, the top tier tying material companies in the industry for the last

Marvin: 20 years, right? And I was kind of curious if you could kind of tell us like

Marvin: how that started and what it was like, you know, working with each of those companies.

Greg: Oh, I mean, just so you know, like it was a blessing to, to be able to,

Greg: to be granted a lot of these opportunities.

Greg: And, you know, that first opportunity was, like I said, I was,

Greg: well, endorsed through Orbis and, you know, I had an idea for materials and,

Greg: uh, Sean Brillant was working in their, uh, development department at the time.

Greg: And he, uh, he made an introduction with me, for me with, uh,

Greg: with Marcos, the hairline.

Greg: And that's kind of what started everything for me having the opportunities.

Greg: And you saw laser dub and all the numerous other opportunities for material come out after that.

Greg: And like, like I said, I, you know, not to be, you know, misleading or anything.

Greg: It was, it was a little bit of luck, I guess, you know what I mean?

Greg: The hard work, all that stuff was there. But, you know, I was lucky that I had

Greg: somebody willing to make an introduction for me.

Greg: And that's how I was able to, you know, kind of build my brand moving forward.

Marvin: Yeah. It's kind of like getting rebounds in basketball, right?

Marvin: You got to stay around the rim.

Greg: 100%. Yeah. That's a good one. I like that. I'm going to use that.

Marvin: Yeah. So you started out with Hairline.

Marvin: Who are some of the other folks you've worked with in the industry?

Marvin: And we'll wait and we'll talk about Montana Fly Company in a minute.

Greg: No, that's great. I tell EP, Flyman Fishing Company.

Greg: But my primary, obviously, was working with Hairline.

Greg: I think we spent almost two decades putting together some amazing materials.

Greg: So it's, and it's not hard to do so when you work with such an amazing group of people.

Greg: Like, so it's, uh, like I said, it was a privilege to, to be a part of that.

Marvin: Yeah. And the great thing is they're almost completely set up in Michigan now.

Marvin: So you'll be able to go have dinner with Marcos anytime you want to, right?

Greg: Yeah. They, they, they just moved to Michigan. They're, they're,

Greg: I've known how fast they move.

Greg: They are probably up and operational at this point. Yeah.

Marvin: And so, you know, kind of fast forward a little bit, you know,

Marvin: you currently are working for Montana Fly Company and they were all over the

Marvin: place at Bob and the Hood.

Marvin: And I was really impressed that the new owner has aggressively kind of moved

Marvin: into, you know, predator flies and tying materials.

Marvin: And I was kind of curious, because I didn't have a chance to talk to him,

Marvin: you know, how did that come about? And, you know, how did you get involved in the racket?

Greg: It so i got uh i got approached by phil cook who's a regional fishing rep and a good friend of mine,

Greg: and uh he had uh reached out on montana fly company's behalf of like hey you

Greg: know there's some opportunities out here and and uh new owner and just really fishy and highly,

Greg: aggressive group of guys that want to go after it

Greg: again you know so we were

Greg: able to work out a contract and and i've

Greg: got you know you you met justin just like i did a bob and and you know it's

Greg: he's more my age you know or our age bracket he's a strange shooter he's that

Greg: likes to get his hands dirty you know i can't i i i can't ask for really anything

Greg: more right like working those are

Greg: the kind of guys i like to work with is uh ones that

Greg: are really getting the group with you you know so like

Greg: i said again it's uh you know somebody bringing

Greg: an opportunity and it's able to uh that you know to take your talents and push

Greg: them to something else you know so i think you're gonna i think you guys are

Greg: gonna be happy there and you see we've already launched one material but we'll

Greg: we'll have a whole bunch more coming in the future here yeah.

Marvin: You know it's interesting Right. Because, I mean, I'm always kind of watching

Marvin: stuff and I would say, you know, not just the move like, you know,

Marvin: I can remember seeing the Golden Fly Shop display and they used to have an old

Marvin: school, you know, like lunch and meat freezer from a grocery store that was full of streamers.

Marvin: But the thing that kind of blew me away at Bobbin was, you know,

Marvin: everyone that's got patterns with them, you know, they had a small,

Marvin: you know, it was almost like a like a large flag that was on their table that

Marvin: said, I'm with Montana Fly Company. Right.

Marvin: And then just the innovation in the new materials. But you could tell that there

Marvin: was something different about what was going on than you would see,

Marvin: you know, if you went to a trade show and walked around and looked at,

Marvin: you know, six different material companies.

Greg: Oh, I mean, well, not only that, I mean, look at, you know, like we said,

Greg: the big streamer flies, right?

Greg: So, I mean, Russ Madden's now with Montana Fly Company.

Greg: I think Matt Grodziewski's got his flies there.

Greg: So, you know, you add that to Kelly Gallop and just the Midwest talent that's a part of that stable.

Greg: Able, like, you know, I, I feel like I'm getting to work with people I know

Greg: already, you know, like your neighbors, right. And getting to work with your neighbors.

Greg: It's, it's kind of, it's kind of really nice.

Greg: You know, there was, there was a long time where, you know, I used to get really

Greg: disappointed because like all my, I felt like all my buddies were all working

Greg: with different, different companies. Right.

Greg: And like, there was like, I was like, seemed like there was there's always this unwritten role.

Greg: Like you can't work together. You can't, or you can't, can't highlight somebody

Greg: else's hard work or the materials or their stuff because you work for somebody

Greg: else and they offer something similar.

Greg: Like, you know, I feel like everybody being under this label,

Greg: I don't, I don't feel like we go through that, that, that often anymore.

Greg: So I kind of appreciate those kinds of things too.

Greg: You know, especially now that like we're not childish now, right.

Greg: You know, It's a way I felt back then. It's like, really?

Greg: This is what we need? This is how we act?

Marvin: Yeah, it's the Ghostbuster problem, right? You can't cross the streams?

Greg: Yes, exactly.

Marvin: Yeah.

Greg: But you know what? Now you're starting to see a lot more of that now.

Greg: And, you know, and I'm hoping that continues.

Greg: I think that that will solve a lot of problems.

Greg: You know what I mean? So, you know, because, I mean, let's face it.

Greg: I mean, like most of the innovations and stuff coming out today,

Greg: they're all merit. They're all pretty good.

Greg: There's a lot of exciting stuff coming out across the board.

Greg: I mean, just technology alone and glass fishing has already pushed itself into

Greg: a whole nother category.

Greg: I mean, even so much, I'm digressing. I'm fishing more glass and old reels that

Greg: I find in garage sales and stuff like that versus this high-tech stuff, right?

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too, right? So for folks that don't know,

Marvin: can you, Greg, tell us the products that you currently have released with Montana Fly Company?

Greg: So we just released the, uh, math satin chenilles.

Greg: We did both like a cactus and a, uh, like a polar type chenille.

Greg: And, uh, it's, it's the first it's math. Okay. So there's like no reflection to it whatsoever.

Greg: Um, it focuses more on color. So it's, it's kind of the first of its type.

Greg: Like, you know, most chenilles you see are flashy or opaque or,

Greg: you know, got some kind of UV and stuff to it.

Greg: These are truly bland, matte, you know.

Greg: So you think low water brown trout flies, you know, big pike and musky fly, all that kind of stuff.

Greg: Like you can really dig into it with this kind of chenille.

Greg: I'm excited about it. So it's, it's gaining a lot of ground and it's also hit

Greg: the, uh, the salt water, salt water market very well.

Marvin: Very, very neat. And can you share with us anything that's kind of in the production

Marvin: pipeline that people can be on the lookout from you?

Greg: Well, I mean, we're going to have a few new dubbings and there's going to be

Greg: some other shields and brushes and stuff like that down the road.

Greg: No, I, uh, I, I think, uh, I think there's going to be a lot coming in the future

Greg: based on everything we've already got in the pipeline.

Greg: So I think it's going to be worth the wait. You know, we're just getting started.

Greg: I don't want to pump something that, you know, could come out later than something

Greg: else, you know what I mean? mean.

Greg: So, you know, but there'll, there'll be a lot and I'm excited about it and you should be too.

Greg: So if you like the tie, I know it's all stuff. I like the tie.

Greg: This is stuff I want to use.

Marvin: Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, you know, shifting gears a little bit,

Marvin: you know, we were talking about, you know, how, you know, you started your family

Marvin: and you kind of thought to kind of reprioritize things.

Marvin: And, you know, we were talking before we started interviewing,

Marvin: you've also in the last, I don't know, two years had a couple,

Marvin: uh, I guess what generation X people would call check check engine light moments.

Marvin: And I was wondering if you could share those with us and kind of tell us how

Marvin: that kind of reinforced your path.

Greg: Well, I mean, a couple of years ago, I had, you know, when that second strain

Greg: of COVID came through, I got that and it ended up, I ended up getting pneumonia

Greg: and blood clots at the same time.

Greg: So it was a pretty scary, scary time there for me.

Greg: For me and my family, you know, I spent like 11 days in ICU and,

Greg: uh, wasn't looking good.

Greg: And then, you know, I, I pulled through and then I was on, uh,

Greg: home care for another month and, you know, but we made it right.

Greg: We made it through that one.

Greg: And then, uh, you know, it forced me to get in a little better shape.

Greg: And I, uh, I went Elkhart in Montana,

Greg: montana i went deer hunting and uh

Greg: january 1st the following year and i had a pretty significant heart attack where

Greg: i had to have uh a stent placed immediately and then i had to go back and get

Greg: two more placed so it's really kind of hard to uh ignore all the things that are trying to kill you,

Greg: so yeah you uh you definitely reevaluate like i guess time and mortality are

Greg: definitely a big a big part of my thought process anymore.

Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because I'm a little bit older than you,

Marvin: but it's kind of, you get to a point where it's like you try to kind of ignore

Marvin: it for a while, but at some point you can't deceive yourself that you've got

Marvin: more tomorrows than yesterdays, right?

Greg: I i feel i think that way every day like there's no

Greg: more like waking up and kind of

Greg: taking the day for granted i mean you know

Greg: i hate that i have to feel that way but there's some

Greg: there's some solace in it too you know

Greg: what i mean like you uh you make

Greg: sure you you tell your kids what you can tell them at night

Greg: you know you tell your wife that that you love her and stuff like that every

Greg: night before you go to bed you know so you don't uh you don't just assume you're

Greg: uh you're granted uh tomorrow but uh i mean i hope i have a whole bunch of tomorrow's

Greg: lines i mean as many as possible yeah.

Marvin: I would also say too though that right if you use it the right way right um

Marvin: you know it gives you a lot more focus to get done what you want to get done yeah.

Greg: There's just such an urgency to get done what what i want

Greg: to get done you know and you know it's like you say about like

Greg: prioritizing and reevaluating and

Greg: i mean you know you can't

Greg: take for granted that your mind thinks a different way and like what you had

Greg: you know the five-year plan you had is gone you know what i mean you know the

Greg: previous plan is gone you you kind of what can i do to uh you know,

Greg: for me, what can I immediately do to, to rectify this problem?

Greg: And that's kind of how I've lived since all of this.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and speaking of that, you know, you recently completed the,

Marvin: uh, pack mule 300 charity hike.

Marvin: You want to tell us like what on earth made you decide to do something like that?

Greg: Sure. So yeah, for, for anybody that's not aware of that.

Greg: So you know what i

Greg: did was i i hiked from my house here in

Greg: michigan to my hunting camp in the

Greg: allegheny national forest and the reason for it was to uh to raise money for

Greg: uh the high school lacrosse teams and you know both my sons play lacrosse so

Greg: you know i really wanted to set an an example of hard work and,

Greg: you know, I kind of helped them find that another gear was inside themselves

Greg: and like what they can accomplish.

Greg: So that's why I did, you know, what I did.

Greg: And I will tell you right now that I will probably never attempt that again.

Greg: And it took me to pretty much my breaking point.

Marvin: Yeah. It's, uh, yeah, you were telling me like, like hotter than you thought, less water, right?

Greg: Oh, I had to reevaluate everything, you know, like, you know,

Greg: I mean, I can't even it's, you know, the mental game, the hydration,

Greg: like, you know, help the whole nine yards.

Greg: Like you're seeing you put the miles in, but like you, I had,

Greg: if I didn't have the help I had, I would have never made something like that. You know what I mean?

Greg: And, you know, when you're trying to set an example for a bunch of kids,

Greg: like that's, what's kind of driving you to, uh, to get it done.

Greg: Like, you know, I mean, you know, it's a long ways.

Greg: I wanted my kids to, to not have an excuse, right.

Greg: To, to fail. So if I looked at it as like, if I failed in something like this,

Greg: like, you know, I set an example. examples that, you know, it's okay to quit.

Greg: And I just didn't want to do that. I'm just not that kind of person.

Greg: You know, I was, if it killed me, it was going to kill me. And,

Greg: uh, you know, part of something like that too, is, is, you know,

Greg: I just told you about the heart attacks and the COVID and all that stuff.

Greg: And, you know, I don't like things telling me what to do. Like,

Greg: I'm sure you've heard that before.

Greg: Um, I kind of had to prove to myself again, that I'm like, not just going to

Greg: belly up and die, you know?

Greg: So I had to push myself to a little, another level of, uh, unsureness. Does that make sense?

Marvin: Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, you, you're trying to be better every day than

Marvin: you were yesterday. Right.

Greg: Some, sometimes I'm still, I'm still, I'm still bad just so you know, No, I'm still a villain.

Marvin: You're one of the bad boys of fly fishing. But I mean, you know,

Marvin: pushing yourself and kind of, I don't know. I mean, it's interesting, right?

Marvin: And there's, you know, this whole parenting component, like,

Marvin: you know, you can't tell your children how to live their life and not model

Marvin: that behavior, right? That's a huge thing, I think, right?

Greg: Yeah, it's an important thing.

Marvin: Yeah, I think, you know, also, you know, not expecting other people to fix your problems, right?

Marvin: Like we don't have enough money for our lacrosse team. Well,

Marvin: how are we going to fix that?

Greg: Yeah. And I mean, I mean, this is, you know, I think, you know,

Greg: we've talked about this before, but like my idea of charity is a lot different

Greg: sometimes than other people's idea of charity.

Greg: Like I'm never going to be the guy who goes knocks on people's doors and asks for money.

Greg: I'm never going to be a guy that stands at a gas station, tries to sell somebody a discount card.

Greg: You know i'm not going to be the kind of guy that

Greg: just organizes other people to do hard work for

Greg: them you know to get credit for doing charity i'm

Greg: just it's not my style i want to be responsible for

Greg: putting the work in and uh you

Greg: know most importantly when you're doing charity you're not supposed to get

Greg: a personal benefit from it so there's no

Greg: personal benefit here for me like it's truly

Greg: charity it's uh it's benefiting

Greg: these kids in every way not only in the

Greg: way of monetary you know having extra money that they need to have a successful

Greg: season but it's showing them an example of hard work and determination it's

Greg: showing them some mental toughness where they got to learn to win the battle

Greg: of yourself you know it's it's showing them the importance of friendship and teamwork.

Greg: You know, because I had people helping me along the way, you know,

Greg: you know, and also helps you handle the pressure, you know, the,

Greg: that pure negativity that we always see, you know, shows them that they don't

Greg: have to validate that, that they can defeat it.

Greg: You know, I, you know, I hear it. I, there's always, you know,

Greg: I'm, I'm doing charity, right.

Greg: And there's always that one or two people out there that are like,

Greg: oh yeah, he's, he's not really doing yet.

Greg: Somebody's, somebody's picking them up and moving them here.

Greg: There's somebody who's doing this or, you know, anything to, uh.

Greg: You know make it so you uh you know you come out the bad guy right you know there's always just,

Greg: like it's a great example still to show the

Greg: kids that to for my

Greg: kids to see that like that you can put doesn't matter

Greg: how much hard work you do how much stuff you put in

Greg: how much effort you put in for somebody else like you're never

Greg: gonna make everybody happy so i mean

Greg: all that kind of stuff was there every element of

Greg: what i wanted this to be you know what

Greg: was there and then like i said you know there was some of it

Greg: my benefit was i i realized i

Greg: wasn't going to die tomorrow all this medical stuff i can kind of overcome it

Greg: you know and then you kind of learn who your friends are right you kind of learn

Greg: who the kind of people like i i was really shocked at some of the people that

Greg: came to my aid a lot of them strangers okay so you know the people that i I

Greg: thought would jump in and walk a few miles, like, they didn't show up.

Greg: So, you know, it's, you learn a lot about yourself and the people around you

Greg: by doing something like that.

Marvin: Yeah, but you know, back on the kid thing, like, you know, in this day and age,

Marvin: right, you know, kind of, you know, tying back to the Generation X thing,

Marvin: like, you know, seeing that life's not fair.

Marvin: Um, is a, is a super powerful life, life lesson.

Marvin: So you don't walk around waiting, you know, for some magical something to happen for you.

Marvin: But then I also think the other thing too, and, you know, particularly,

Marvin: um, you know, raising kids, but I think true in life, it's like,

Marvin: you know, well, I can't do that.

Marvin: And I was like, well, how do you know? Cause you haven't tried. Right.

Marvin: Um, and so, you know, it's kind of funny. Cause I mean, I had that sort of mindset,

Marvin: uh, particularly in the large law firm practice, which is we were going to put

Marvin: the flag on the hill or everyone was going to be dead.

Marvin: Right? Like those were the two options, right? We're going to die trying,

Marvin: or we're going to put the flag on the hill.

Marvin: And that, you know, not everything in life has to be that way.

Marvin: But I think learning that lesson about, you know, to your point,

Marvin: like, how do you know what you can do until you try to do it?

Greg: Yeah, I agree. And that's, I mean, that's kind of what that,

Greg: this whole thing was, was, you know, it's almost like life in 10 days.

Greg: You know, if If there was some kind of an emotion, a problem or a success or,

Greg: you know, a bad thought, like every minute of that journey for 10 days.

Marvin: Yeah.

Greg: You know, so.

Marvin: That's your second book title.

Greg: Yeah. See, that's the thing is I don't know if I have it anymore to sit and

Greg: write my own book, you know, to have another to do that again.

Greg: And I just, I just, I don't really, I don't even think it's worth it.

Greg: That's me. I'm just saying, you know, like as much as I thought about doing

Greg: another book, I, uh, I think I'll, you know, I used to die on the hill and plant

Greg: the flag. I think I'll just leave it there.

Marvin: And then also too, you get to a point where you, you know, you don't have as

Marvin: many things to prove anymore. Yeah.

Greg: What's funny is you never start out having anything to prove anyway.

Greg: So you just find something that you got to prove yourself.

Greg: It's usually, usually you're trying to prove something to somebody else.

Greg: You're trying to prove somebody else wrong.

Greg: I hate to say it that way. Like if you sit down and you actually think about

Greg: it, like I don't know how many times like in law enforcement,

Greg: I did better just to prove somebody else wrong.

Greg: I didn't really care if I did it for myself or not. You know what I mean?

Greg: You know, There's a lot of times we allow things to influence us,

Greg: not from a phone, but that's today's problem.

Greg: But you get where I'm going with this.

Greg: So I don't know. To each their own. Everybody's different.

Greg: I try not to pass judgment until I, unless you do stupid shit online, then sorry.

Marvin: Sorry like all all.

Greg: Hands all you know i'm done you've lost it you enjoy being you but i'm out you

Greg: know what i mean like i just i don't care.

Marvin: Yeah so to pull us back to a slightly more positive frame of reference you want

Marvin: to give a shout out to some of

Marvin: the people that uh they showed up for you while you were on the hike yeah.

Greg: Absolutely i mean my you know jeff's Jeff Luskay, I don't know if you don't

Greg: know Jeff. Jeff is a Green Lakes dude.

Greg: He's probably been a fishing guide longer than most of us dream of being a fishing guide.

Greg: He's probably the most well-respected bait casting and instructor out of the Cleveland area.

Greg: He's just one of the darndest, nicest guys you'll ever meet in your life.

Greg: You know, there was a time where, you know, me and Jeff weren't the best of

Greg: friends, but, you know, we became, you know, sort of the best of friends.

Greg: Over the last few years and you know he was a big part

Greg: of this you know like he was the guy that took weight

Greg: out of my pack so that way i could carry extra water when it was you know 100

Greg: degrees outside you know he's the guy that opened this house and gave me a place

Greg: to sleep you know what i mean so either he's the guy that would call and check

Greg: in or just drive by to see that i was good to go.

Greg: And then, you know, anybody think that he wasn't busy, he was filming a fishing

Greg: show and everything else.

Greg: And he just found time to, to be a part of that, you know, a part of making

Greg: sure that I could complete my journey.

Greg: You know, you know, Alex Schoen came all the way from Ann Arbor just to hike a few miles with me.

Greg: You know, one of the days Rob Pitts, you know, he He grabbed me in Cleveland

Greg: and made sure I had a place to sleep for, you know, that push through eastern

Greg: Cleveland into toward the Pennsylvania border.

Greg: You know, they fed me dinner, everything. I mean, they just they gave me a chance

Greg: to rest, recoup and get my sanity.

Greg: Owen Murphy grabbing breakfast for me one morning.

Greg: You know, Jimmy Lamprost and Will Turrent bringing me Gatorades along the journey

Greg: and just giving me somebody to talk to. I mean, that's a, that's a big part of this.

Greg: I don't think people really understand is 10 days, 300 miles, 40 pounds on your back.

Greg: It's lonely, very lonely.

Greg: Like I, uh, I spent as much time fighting the heat and everything else as I did fighting myself.

Greg: Like, I don't know. I mean, you know, you know, I, I, I listened,

Greg: somebody said like, you got to fight your inner bits. Have you ever heard that before?

Marvin: I have not.

Greg: Like why uh i my

Greg: inner bitch must have been like 400 pounds because he

Greg: was literally just beating the shit out of

Greg: me because anything like any bad negative

Greg: thing i could think of along the way she was just

Greg: spewing it and he had to learn how to fight it you know either gave in or you

Greg: saw it i just i saw it you know but you know for me wasn't an easy goal was

Greg: not an easy task It is definitely not something I would probably ever,

Greg: ever try to duplicate.

Greg: Like, I think I showed myself I'm very much capable of doing the things I want to do still.

Greg: I'm still sort of fat. I'd like to lose a few more pounds.

Greg: You know what I mean? But, you know, we can't help how God has made us.

Greg: And I do like...

Greg: Some of the bad foods you're not allowed to have. So, well, I'm not allowed

Greg: to have, but I eat them anyways.

Greg: So you know what I'm talking about. So, yeah, again, that goes back to,

Greg: you know, the inner kid in me when the doctor says I should not eat bacon or

Greg: I should not have this because of my heart stuff.

Greg: My inner kid's like, screw you. I'm going to have bacon.

Greg: You know what I mean? So I'm finding myself these days as much as the next guy.

Marvin: Yeah. But also too, you know, as we were kind of racking up kind of life lessons,

Marvin: you know, for your boys and for other people, I mean, that understanding what

Marvin: friendship truly is, right?

Marvin: Like those people that are with you in the darkness, or you tell them that it's

Marvin: important to you and they're as committed to you achieving that goal as you are, right? Right.

Greg: Yes. A hundred percent. Like it, for me, it was a big deal.

Greg: Like I said, you learned a lot from that, you know, you know,

Greg: I had, uh, believe it or not, like, you know, like, you know,

Greg: friends are, you know, friends try to have conversations.

Greg: They talk to you, they're trying to push you through, you know,

Greg: they also try to motivate you at times. And you know, like you hear everything

Greg: when you're doing something like this, right.

Greg: You know, everybody's talking, everybody's best got some kind of an opinion on something,

Greg: then you know so you hear all the bad stuff too you

Greg: know you hear the people you know like oh he

Greg: can't do this you you need certain type of

Greg: training you'd be able to do this kind of well you weren't here

Greg: for the months and months and months of training that was

Greg: going on you know maybe just because you can't do it doesn't mean i can't do

Greg: it you know what i mean so it was it was crazy to hear like what some people

Greg: that you that you knew people you know what they were saying when you were just

Greg: trying to do something good.

Greg: So yeah, you do. You do learn how your friends are.

Marvin: Yeah, and so what was your fundraising goal and how much have you collected so far?

Greg: So the goal was to raise $10,000. And I think we finished at around $7,000.

Greg: But let's be realistic with the current political climate and the interests

Greg: and inflation and everything else that's going on, I'm sure,

Greg: But Cross isn't a huge priority for people.

Greg: I respect that. You know what I mean? So to raise that kind of money, it was huge.

Greg: I'm just glad that people found merit in what I was doing and contributing that

Greg: kind of money to these kids. For me, that was a win.

Marvin: Yeah, and I would imagine, I think the last time we spoke, you've left the fundraising link open.

Marvin: You're going to leave it open for a little while after this interview comes out, right?

Greg: I did, yes.

Marvin: So I will drop that in the show notes for you, but how long will that link be

Marvin: active so we can get people to actually move and put some money in the jar?

Greg: I mean, I'll leave it open to the end of the month. You know what I mean?

Greg: Think about closing that thing on September 1st.

Greg: Anybody wants to contribute to it, great.

Greg: And if you want to see kind of what the journey was, that's available to you

Greg: as well. You can go on Instagram and go to pac.mule300.

Greg: And you can actually see all our certain videos,

Greg: usually like three to four a day along each day, along the journey to kind of

Greg: give people updates of, you know, where I was at, how I'm feeling,

Greg: you know, so they could kind of follow along.

Greg: You know, it's kind of hard sometimes to do social media when you're dying.

Greg: That's how I felt like out there. You know, like you're, you're pushing to meet

Greg: a goal where you're exhausted, you know, but I think I did a good job.

Greg: You know, I think I, I represented well for my community and,

Greg: you know, so like I said, it gave everybody a chance to follow along,

Greg: see where I was at for the day and, you know, that kind of deal, you know.

Marvin: Yeah. I, I, I, I followed along and I was like, you know, when you're,

Marvin: when you're hiking and you're drawing out socks, it's pretty serious business.

Greg: Yeah, like every 10 miles roughly, I was taking off my boots, taking off my socks.

Greg: I packed a small collapsible chair, you know, and I would teach myself to chill out, dry my socks out.

Greg: You know, that's, you know, part of this whole thing is like you set goals for

Greg: yourself and you push too hard.

Greg: And you don't account for certain things and you hit a wall, you know.

Greg: You hit multiple walls every day and you just got to overcome them.

Greg: But taking the socks off, sitting there in the sun, my suit out, yes, it was wonderful.

Greg: It was like some of the best times of the trip.

Marvin: Only replaced with the beer sticking your feet in the creek when you got to

Marvin: the end of the road, right?

Greg: That was pretty satisfying. It really hurt too. I mean, like hurt, hurt.

Greg: Like putting my feet in that 50 degree water, you know, at, oh boy,

Greg: you know, brought, you know, tears, tears of pain and joy.

Marvin: Yeah. And so, you know, if we

Marvin: kind of recap, you're probably not doing another pack mule anytime soon.

Greg: No, I'm not doing that again.

Marvin: Yeah. And you're not, you know, a hundred percent into fishing anymore.

Marvin: So, you know, what are you doing with all that great free time you have?

Greg: Well, I mean, it's kind of like what we talked about in this whole podcast.

Greg: I'm, you know, I'm parenting, I'm hunting, I'm exercising, I'm camping.

Greg: I love to cook. I'm cooking and I'm doing these things for me.

Greg: You know what I mean? I'm doing them for my family, my friends and,

Greg: you know, just, just living life now.

Greg: You know what I mean? I'm not worrying about being, uh, the repercussions of

Greg: losing my reputation on social media.

Marvin: Yeah. So book idea, book number three idea is a cookbook.

Greg: You know what? I have those type of notes already written up to do like a little

Greg: fly tie, life story, cook thing.

Greg: But then I'd be just like a new leader and I don't want to do that.

Greg: So, you know, they already have too many campfire stories. Yeah.

Marvin: And so, you know, you've got your own online store for materials and flies and

Marvin: stuff like that, you know, so folks wanted to check that out. Where should they go?

Greg: Yeah, so, I mean, if you need help, you can always call me at Schultz Outfitters.

Greg: That's what I tell everyone. Call me there. I'll help you do whatever you want.

Greg: If you don't want to talk to anybody and you just want to order online,

Greg: you can go through my Great San Diego Fly Tying that has limited materials on

Greg: there and all of my slides through awkward slides are on there.

Greg: So, they do the best commercial salon flies around.

Greg: So, that's where you would go get that stuff if you want.

Marvin: Got it and you know what if folks want to follow your adventures at the vice

Marvin: on the water and in the field where should they go.

Greg: Yeah i mean honestly you can't

Greg: anymore like my personal you know go

Greg: to my instagram you can you can follow if

Greg: you want but i i don't put an emphasis on

Greg: showing the world what i'm doing anymore and uh

Greg: but if you send me a message or you need help

Greg: with something like that shooting i'll answer

Greg: it when i see it so you know

Greg: best thing to do is if you want me is to call me at the store or

Greg: uh send me an email which uh anybody there on

Greg: staff would give you and and uh you know i hate to say maybe you'll sue me a

Greg: little bit on youtube doing try time videos for uh good old mike there at the

Greg: store but uh that's it man you know shit marvin Just to be honest with you,

Greg: this might be the last podcast I do.

Greg: I don't know if I really need to do another one. So I hope everyone enjoys it.

Marvin: Yeah, so you're becoming like the hermit Obi-Wan Kenobi on Tatooine and Star Wars, right?

Greg: Yeah, don't poke the bear. There won't have to be a new series.

Marvin: There you go. Well, listen, Greg, I really appreciate you carving out a little

Marvin: bit of time for me. It's been fun.

Greg: No, man, I really appreciate it. I've been looking forward to doing this podcast

Greg: with you and I hope you're out there enjoying your fishing time with your, your family.

Greg: And, uh, I'm sure I'll see you soon.

Marvin: You bet. Take care.

Greg: Take care.

Intro: Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

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Intro: Tight lines, everybody.