The truth is, no one ever really strives or envisions themselves in a stepparent role, yet we find ourselves filling this space. In this episode of the No Grey Areas podcast, we dive into the unique challenges and rewards of being a stepparent with married couple, Brandon and JoyAnn Smith. As we just celebrated National Stepparents Day on September 16th, it's the perfect time to discuss the crucial role stepparents play in blended families.

In this episode we explore strategies for building strong relationships with stepchildren, navigating complex family dynamics, and finding your place in a new family structure. The conversation also offers insights on how to manage common struggles, from setting boundaries to co-parenting effectively. JoyAnn shares her vulnerable experience with what she means when she will always “be bronze” to her stepchildren, the constant pressure she’s under, and the learning curve she had to accept when she stepped into a stepmom role. Whether you're a seasoned stepparent or just beginning your journey, this conversation provides valuable advice and encouragement for any and all blended families!

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No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at nogreyareas.com

Host

Man, I am so excited because today on the podcast, I'm interviewing Brandon and Joyce Smith, a dynamic power couple discussing the beautiful yet complex world of blended families. On the episode, we delve into the unspoken realities and hidden blessings of step parenting, plus tangible steps and lessons they've learned on how to navigate a household with a blended family.

Host

Here we go.

Pat McCalla

Brandon and Joyce Smith, thank you so much for being on the No Gray Areas podcast. We're going to jump right in. So they already heard an intro about you. The audience did. But we want to talk about blended families today because this podcast is all about the power and complexity of human choices that we make, our choices, and eventually our choices make us.

Pat McCalla

Pat McCalla

Pat McCalla

So you guys are a blended family. And I thought it would be perfect to have you on here and talk about that. The beauty of it, the struggle with it, the complexity of it. Because

Pat McCalla

even for for my wife and I, we didn't really have a blended family, but we probably will at some point, like I bet one of our kids will end up having a blended family or even is saying that I go, well, we did have a blended family because we had people that kind of came in and lived with us, young people that would live with us on and off sometimes.

Pat McCalla

So we had a blended family, I guess, now

Joyce Smith

Yeah. So. Well,

Joyce Smith

about. Yeah, well, no, thank you for for having us. It is interesting.

Joyce Smith

years ago, the idea of a blended family felt like it was. You need to hide that. Or is there's some shame or embarrassment. And based on those statistics, like we're in the majority today.

Joyce Smith

Like you're weird if you're not a part of a blended family. The the school systems, our governments, the way they all operate is slanted towards

Joyce Smith

blended families. And so there actually was a freedom in just crossing over me being like, hey, we're a blended family. This is who we are, and just owning it. So yeah.

Brandon Smith

yeah.

Brandon Smith

No. four years.

Brandon Smith

out one one if

Joyce Smith

right? Correct.

Brandon Smith

First marriage? Yes.

Joyce Smith

three kids. Three

Brandon Smith

zero. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

So you end up

Pat McCalla

stepping into your first marriage, but you end up getting married to someone and you got three instant kids.

Brandon Smith

Yeah. when we got married, they were seven, ten and 12. and they were already an established family friend.

Brandon Smith

Person. My friend. Wow. Seven, ten and 12. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

So you step into a marriage which is

Pat McCalla

beautiful and crazy and complex and difficult anyway.

Pat McCalla

But jumping right in with three kids and one of them going into their teenage years.

Brandon Smith

Yeah. It was, I mean, obviously it wasn't like a surprise to me, but it was something that we had to work through and talk about and books and podcasts and conversations.

Brandon Smith

Just a ton of it. Within, you know, the year, year and a half leading up to the wedding, trying to learn everything that I could that we could, you know, he had had been a dad for 12 years, so there was a family that was already established. There's already routines and, just memories that were already there.

Brandon Smith

And I'm trying to come in and make myself a part of the family that's already been established. And so that was in and of itself, just kind of a learning curve, trying to figure out where I belong in this, this family that's been established for a long time. And,

Pat McCalla

joy, you just said something that I'd never thought about with a blended family before. Like some of that like, okay, rules. And, you know, you've got a kind of a family culture and you're coming in.

Pat McCalla

But I never thought about, like, memories. Like I could see sitting there driving down the road. And they start going, oh, dad, remember when and you weren't part of that. Remember

Brandon Smith

Yeah. truthfully, that's been one of the biggest struggles for me.

Brandon Smith

Will be at the dinner table and specifically the oldest. Avery. Kind of like Brandon, very nostalgic, loves living, you know, reliving things that happened. And she starts talking about all of these things that I was never a part of and things that were of their previous family. And so I'm like, where do I where do I fit in?

Brandon Smith

How do I manage these emotions that I never got to experience their first time to Disneyworld or, you know, just soccer games, you know, all of those things that happen normal for kids that as a stepmom, you have to jump in and try to one keep your emotions in check to try to learn as much as you can because those memories are going to keep coming up.

Brandon Smith

So now when they talk about it, I'm like, oh yeah, remember whenever you guys told me this story? And then I asked them specific things about that, but it was for a long time, probably the first. My first two years

Joyce Smith

was really difficult. Yeah, that was one of those. I met with a guy by the name of Chris Jones, who had

Joyce Smith

been where we were heading and met with him several times and just said, hey, what are the what are the hardships of blended family, what step parenting?

Joyce Smith

What's that going to look like? Like help us? Is this something we really want to do, what's best for the kids? And he recommended books and podcasts and visited with us. And just a great influence. But one of the things I remember him saying was, Brian. He goes, the hardest part is with blended family is when the kids respond with, I don't have to listen to you.

Joyce Smith

You're not my mom or you're not. You're not my dad. Or when it becomes between you and your spouse, a any kid would or you're visiting, your spouse says, don't talk to my kid that way.

Joyce Smith

He said, being a step dad is one of the greatest joys of my life.

Joyce Smith

Being a stepdad is pure hell because it's and you don't know from minute to minute which one it's going to be. And so we went into this really prepared, like we did our homework, we read books. We had conversations, we met with other couples families, probably overprepared, and we were prepared for worst case scenario. And based on what we could control, couldn't have been easier.

Joyce Smith

the kids, their love for joy, their respect for joy. Like we have not had any of those issues. the challenges have been like what? Joy said, the unknowns, the when memories come up, how that triggers emotion. Yeah.

Joyce Smith

so

Pat McCalla

part of,

Pat McCalla

what made that as smooth as it could be? I won't say smooth because nothing's really smooth.

Pat McCalla

You know, marriage isn't smooth no matter what it is. And having kids isn't smooth no matter what it is. But it went. It sounds like you're saying it went as smoothly as you could imagine. Was a lot of that because of the preparation

Brandon Smith

you think you did? Absolutely. I think when we went in, eyes wide open, like we had been told this was going to be hell.

Brandon Smith

You guys are going to hate it. You are. You know, it could wreck your marriage. and it has for a lot of people. and so we, I think, went in as prepared as possible. I listened to countless podcasts, still listened to many podcasts, just trying to gain wisdom and what do you do about this?

Brandon Smith

And how do you handle that situation where, you know, it may not be the kids directly, but it's all the ripple effect of it. I mean, you know, it, it never goes away. People say, oh, well, when the kids are 18. No, because then there's college graduations and weddings and grandkids and family events, like it doesn't ever go away.

Brandon Smith

It's still the same. They're still a blended family for the entirety of your life.

Pat McCalla

that's true. And you make a good point. It's not going away.

Brandon Smith

Yeah. It's not like you do it for 2 or 3 years, right?

Brandon Smith

The seasons change, but it still will still be there forever.

Pat McCalla

What are some of the practical things that you really learned in that preparation time in that year? And I'm thinking especially for our audience again, like I just gave the statistics, most of our audience is somehow dealing with, with a blended family. And let me before I do that, let me go back in and correct what I said earlier when I said I'm not part of a blended family.

Pat McCalla

Well, I already said, well, I am, because we brought someone into our home a couple of times. But then I think, well, no, my parents got divorced and

Brandon Smith

my mom's been renamed. And so

Pat McCalla

even though I was a young adult when it happened, I have a,

Pat McCalla

blended family now, and I still it's it's awkward for me.

Pat McCalla

I'm 52 and I'm go do I introduce them as my dad or my stepdad?

Brandon Smith

Sure.

Joyce Smith

offend them. I'm not the guy like, he's my dad. But

Brandon Smith

yeah,

Joyce Smith

I think there's two practical things we do that, it was funny, just this morning, Joy goes, did you come up with this on your own or did somebody tell you? And I think we just got lucky. I just, and one of those is for the health of our home. and I don't know that our kids are even aware of this.

Joyce Smith

That just a decision. Joy. And I made is we don't refer to their mother by name. We don't use her name in our household. we also don't refer to her as the X. I think X is blocking out. It's a negative on every sitcom. The X is the the laughing stock of a joke. Can we blame the X for everything in that takes away identity and value of an individual?

Joyce Smith

so we don't refer to her as the X, but we don't refer to her by name because her name has an emotional attachment in our home. And so when Joy, my wife, hears her name, it's an immediate defense, comparison. And so when we remove the identity and refer to her as our kids mother or, you know, in a conversation in the school, you know, our oldest daughter, Avery will say, I was talking with Avery's mother and just not using the name creates peace and emotional safe place where, you know, that individual isn't,

Joyce Smith

a third wheel to a marriage relationship.

Joyce Smith

It's her. Her identity is still their mother. but that name has an emotional attachment, positive or negative, that has an impact in every conversation. So if we can just remove the name from our household,

Joyce Smith

helps create peace.

Brandon Smith

That was huge for me. but in the very beginning, especially just because,

Brandon Smith

you know, when, when you're a couple, it's the couple, it's Brandon and Joy, right. And so whenever you hear your spouse and another individual or even in separate conversations, it's still there's still some sort of emotion like, oh, I, you know, I just don't like that.

Brandon Smith

and so for my well-being in this whole situation, that was a huge thing. Did you

Pat McCalla

guys make that decision before we even got married

Brandon Smith

Yeah. No, that during that year as you were studying it or something. Yeah. Somewhere. Yeah. Brandon, one day I don't know what the conversation was, but after one of your songs,

Joyce Smith

for Chemo Song shoot. Yeah. Something happened and I remember saying, well, let's just remove that from our vocabulary that helps protect your heart and emotion and helps you compare to the past.

Joyce Smith

And we've never looked back and we've met. We know the Chris Jones. We're meeting with other people and blended families, and they're asking us for advice. And what do you do? And that's one of the first things we tell them. And some very good friends of ours just got married in the last year, and he had a daughter from a prior relationship.

Joyce Smith

And his wife struggles with baby mama. And we told him eliminate her name from the vocabulary. And it has changed so much in their household because the comparison.

Pat McCalla

because I don't want our audience to misconstrue this,

Pat McCalla

it's not in a negative.

Pat McCalla

Like we don't even speak.

Brandon Smith

know

Brandon Smith

when

Joyce Smith

you're talking to your kids?

Joyce Smith

Yes. Yep. Hey, your mom texted me and she said, yeah. Or I tell I'll go to Joy and said, hey, the kids are mother, right? But when it's Joy and I, it's just, I'll go to Joy and say, hey, the kid's mom sent me a text and wanted to know because her role, her position in our household is their mother.

Joyce Smith

Yeah.

Joyce Smith

so her decision making, her influence stops at motherhood. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

that's really

Joyce Smith

Yeah. So really good. So we do that. Another thing we do is with our kids is I never want to drop them off. I never want them to feel like they were being left or kicked out the door, or abandoned.

Joyce Smith

So the way we and our kids going back and forth between homes, whoever's home they're going to, we go and pick them up. We want them to have anticipation of looking forward to going to something new, not being left or put off. and so for their emotional well-being, I don't ever want them to feel like, oh, dad and Joy are dropping me off because they're going to go do something without us.

Joyce Smith

It's mom's coming to pick us up because we get to spend time with her. Yes. So, both households, and it's not perfect. There's times where you can't, but in terms of transitioning or back and forth, we strive to

Joyce Smith

go pick up our kids, like, think about like your family find a town, you go to the airport with anticipation if you just it's very different than when you're going to the airport and you're dropping them off and get out of the car, and you say goodbye and they have to go through security and find their gate on their own different experience emotionally.

Joyce Smith

And so for our kids, we always want them to anticipate the change rather than feel like they're being told go away or left.

Pat McCalla

yeah. What were some of the I mean Brandon mentioned a couple. Were there any practical things that you got out of that year that because in some ways,

Pat McCalla

you maybe you guys can tell me I'm wrong on this, but I think you, you maybe had the more difficult situation because you're walking in to a marriage for the first

Brandon Smith

time.

Brandon Smith

You're

Pat McCalla

the.

Pat McCalla

I don't even know if you use this term,

Brandon Smith

but. Yeah, if you

Joyce Smith

So what were some of the practical. Well, let me add to that. But she got married, moved across country, changed, you know, job essentially changed, became a step mom with a teenager like, all in the middle of Covid as well.

Joyce Smith

So we'll add that to the top. Yeah. Massive changes. You're right. Yeah, yeah. So

Pat McCalla

what were some practical things that you learned during that time that you look back and go, these were really good.

Brandon Smith

I think practically, I know we had a ton of conversations and just like anticipation of what is this really going to look like? how do I manage a house for other people that I've never done before?

Brandon Smith

It's one thing whenever you get married and it's just the two of you and you kind of figure it out together, it's another thing. Whenever there's kids are that that means there's more clothes, there's more, you know, food to prepare all of these, those things that have to, to be done. so I think it was just a lot of conversations that we had.

Brandon Smith

We were long distance, like Brandon just said. so it was like when I would go visit the kids may or may not be at Brandon's house. So sometimes it was just the two of us and it was like, you know, the fun dating. And sometimes it was like actual real life, you know, of, like trying to figure out what is this going to look like?

Brandon Smith

and I think just having conversations with the kids to asking them their preference, like, hey, guys, I don't know what you guys like to eat for lunch. What's your favorite snack like, how can I just do the small things that make our now house feel like home to them? you know

Brandon Smith

What is bedtime routine? What is what is what do you need when you're sick?

Brandon Smith

I don't I don't know, like you would know. Yeah, right. Right. Just just having a lot of conversations and asking a ton of questions

Joyce Smith

but that can create tension there between us. Because she doesn't know how Harper likes her sandwich cut, I do. She cuts her sandwich the wrong way.

Joyce Smith

And now there's tension between Joy and I. I'm like, you don't know how to care for the kids. Like, now that's that's never happened. But those sort of things like, happen, you know, I remember that very first Mother's Day, one of the areas we weren't prepared for the hardship that was in our home for Joy, who brought on motherhood and took ownership in these kids and mothers, them.

Joyce Smith

And then that first Mother's Day there with their biological mom and that void inside of our home, how difficult

Joyce Smith

that was. I was one of those where we weren't prepared, and didn't know what to do with it or how to handle that,

Joyce Smith

and actually, our youngest, Harper, at the time, she was seven, she on her own, came up with a new holiday that she created called Step Moms Day.

Pat McCalla

Are you kidding me?

Joyce Smith

And she showed up with gifts and a card for joy on the Wednesday. So in our home, the Wednesday after Mother's Day, a step moms day, and that's our kids make it like they've embraced joy in it and honor her. Yeah. So that was one of the challenges first mothers. And that was two

Brandon Smith

weeks after the wedding. I mean, it was it was quick. We got married beginning of May and it was middle of May.

Joyce Smith

Yeah.

Brandon Smith

So. Yeah. You know what you

Brandon Smith

moving. Yeah.

Brandon Smith

Totally. So

Brandon Smith

like, okay,

Brandon Smith

this? Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Or do I say no to this? Or, I mean,

Pat McCalla

I can't even imagine

Brandon Smith

Yeah. Everything that you were going through, I mean, there's, it's it's still happens often where it's just like

Brandon Smith

I know my role, but I'm still trying to find my role. And we're four years in and there's still instances, situations where I'm like, not the mom.

Brandon Smith

I only have so much say, do I step in? Do I, you know, just look at Brandon and hope he says something. Do I bring it to his attention later? Like what? What does that look like? And there's two teenagers in the house now and a pre-teen. And so there's all kinds of emotions in the home and just different attitudes and things like that, that we're also learning to navigate, as a family and for the kids to their.

Brandon Smith

Yes, they've been going back and forth between homes for years now, but that doesn't mean it's easy on them. we know transition day, whether they're coming to us or they're going to their mom's, is going to be a more difficult day. You don't know what kind of attitudes are going to have. I don't know what kind of attitude I'm going to have.

Brandon Smith

Like, it can be, I'm really looking forward to this or I'm really not looking forward to it. Yeah. and

Joyce Smith

that was our transition day is Sunday nights. And so

Joyce Smith

it is, getting reacquainted with getting like, just. It's like we've been away for a week. We've got to get to know each other. Like, hey, what's happened in your life in the last week? What's going on? What what's coming up this week in school?

Joyce Smith

What what challenges? What stresses are you facing? What test do you have? so one of the things we've implemented in the last year is just, Sunday night. We just have a family meeting and it's could be five minutes, could be 55 minutes of just, hey, grab a blanket, lay on the couch. Let's just talk. Talk through the calendar.

Joyce Smith

Just talk life like, because they would come to our house and they'd all, you know, they go to their rooms and. And it's just the silence and you don't know. And there's tension

Joyce Smith

for whatever reason. They are right dealing with something. But put yourself in their shoes. I mean, they

Joyce Smith

they're back and forth and they're taking possessions with them.

Joyce Smith

And like life for them is not easy. think about my son right now. And just wrapping up baseball season, you know, he had to go to school with his backpack and his gym bag and his baseball bag with his bats and his helmets and his cleats, because it was a transition, like there was something happening where he was, you know, it was with his mom and then going with his dad.

Joyce Smith

So he has to carry all that around school, right? Right. That just makes life difficult for him. And then and he's a second born. So odds are he forgot something. Yeah. And yeah. Exactly. And so

Joyce Smith

the pressure that he has to live with to make sure he has everything for the next week, where he's 14, he can't think through 20 minutes right now.

Joyce Smith

Plan ahead. so just yeah. So those are the things we've learned on the other side that we couldn't prepare for is just the personalities and what life really is going to look like

Joyce Smith

and become.

Brandon Smith

Yeah,

Pat McCalla

when you guys are talking, I'm going in a, in a way, you go from being every few weeks empty nesters to having kids,

Brandon Smith

and yes,

Joyce Smith

know, they're coming back, right?

Joyce Smith

Which I guess I'm finding out is actually choosing.

Pat McCalla

but I just know I look back on on when, when, we became empty nesters. I grieve deeply, like it was really, really difficult. Now we were finding like, oh my goodness, these are some of our

Joyce Smith

It's, it's a new that every few weeks we have their Sunday nights where we are like so excited for their mom to show up like we're done.

Joyce Smith

It's been a long week. Then there's nights where it's heartbreak that they're leaving because it's been such an amazing, wonderful week. You're feeling those emotions, right? But at the same time, until you live in our shoes,

Joyce Smith

you don't really understand that the freedom of every other weekend, we have zero responsibility. it's incredible. and now I get, yes, we want our kids and much time with them at the same time.

Joyce Smith

But until you live, you know, until you're on the side of the desk, you don't. Yeah. You don't understand. but no, it's it's hard. Like, they're, I mean, they're not with us this week, and so it just, it creates freedom, but it also creates more pressure because we have to get things done so that we can to spend intentional time with them next week.

Joyce Smith

So it's just we view life differently.

Brandon Smith

What what are

Joyce Smith

some of that. Well apparently not differently. We're in the majority. This is this is normal life for blended families. Yeah

Pat McCalla

for sure

Pat McCalla

we've talked a lot about some of the struggles and the difficulties. What are some of the beautiful things. So about a blended family,

Pat McCalla

What are some of the beautiful things. So about a blended family,

Brandon Smith

I think.

Brandon Smith

And I've said this to many people, I feel like I got really lucky in the step kids that I got because I've heard horror stories. I've heard the people were like, they won't talk to you, they won't acknowledge you, they won't. You know, they're just very disrespectful. Since day one, all three of them, in their own personalities and ways, have showed me nothing but love and respect.

Brandon Smith

and like Brandon just said, Harper came up with some moms day for our house. and every year, Wednesday after Mother's Day is Stepmom's day. And that's how it's always been. but just the the connection that I get to have with each of them, the, the jokes that we now have or the, you know, the memories that we now have that we've created over the last four plus years, the influence, that I can be another adult for them, that hopefully is guiding them, teaching them, loving them, that they can feel comfortable coming to, you know, especially in these teen years where things just get a little bit crazy.

Brandon Smith

and,

Joyce Smith

what I think the kids also,

Joyce Smith

one of the blessings is they got a new set of grandparents, they got more cousins, aunts and uncles that love them and have embraced them and accepted, accepted them. So more opportunity for them. They get to go. And, you know, they have three extended families now that they get to go on vacations with and travel with, and they get more up, they do more and see more of this country than kids should they get more, you know, they oh, oh, I guarantee you, if our son was here, that's what he would say.

Joyce Smith

Yeah, yeah. Christmas. Yeah, yeah. But it's just,

Joyce Smith

it's been incredible seeing what thought was such a tragic, dire, shameful situation be so fruitful and come to life and healthy and healing and whole.

Pat McCalla

a blended family is really a better picture of God's family, if you think about it.

Pat McCalla

mean, that was part of the thing in the New Testament that Paul was trying to get when he's writing his letters and he's trying to get them to understand, he's like, do you understand? As Gentiles, you've been grafted in like, this is a mystery that it's hard to imagine. And so it was it's really it's

Joyce Smith

blended family.

Joyce Smith

so

Brandon Smith

your family is probably closer picture

Joyce Smith

of God's family

Brandon Smith

than,

Joyce Smith

it is. And I don't want to speak for Joyce or Tee this up for her, but I think one of the other blessings is the impact she's been able to have and the community on, like Instagram and social media of Stem moms.

Brandon Smith

know you said at least 50% I've heard as high as 70% are affected by blended families in some sort of way.

Brandon Smith

and so, yeah, it's the vast majority if you're looking at it like that.

Brandon Smith

So I've had I mean, there's, thousands of stepmom's on Instagram that are, you know, posting all the time. There's a few that I follow all the time and will communicate with quite a bit of, hey, here's this, this is going on. How did you guys handle this? Or even just yeah, just being able to relate of, you know, the kids left today.

Brandon Smith

House is really quiet. you know, there's it's just been it has been an unexpected blessing of, you know, something that, you know, I don't think anyone grows up being like, yeah, I want to be a part of a blended family. I want to be a stepmom. Like, that's not something that I think any woman would ever say.

Brandon Smith

but there is definitely

Joyce Smith

some you can be. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I've never. I'm not I'm not a step parent.

Joyce Smith

didn't have step parents, but I think I learned a lot just through observation and watching. And my admiration and love and respect for step moms in particular, is at an all time high.

Joyce Smith

Because what happens with our kids, like, they they get off the court or out of cheer competition or whatever they're doing, they they get done and they come running to mom and dad. And what the kids do is they run to their dad and then to their mom or to their mom, and then to their dad. Step parent is always third.

Joyce Smith

That's got to be painful to know that your best is the bronze medal. Like you will never be first or second, and you have to put in the same amount of work, same amount of effort to get third. Yeah, you you wouldn't go to the Olympics. You wouldn't compete if you knew your best option is third place. And you have to put in as much work as the guy who's going to win.

Joyce Smith

We wouldn't do it. But step moms do that every single day and just blows my mind the work they do, what they get in return. And for the most part of them. Yeah. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

That's a, that's a that's a great point.

Pat McCalla

That's a great point. Do you have do

Brandon Smith

you want to add anything. Yeah. I was actually just listening to a podcast yesterday entitled

Brandon Smith

responsibility versus authority. So I have all the responsibility of a wife at home, a wife and mom at home, cooking, cleaning, you know, kids schedules, things like that that most women do at their house with, with children.

Brandon Smith

but my authority in parenting decisions is much less I can give Brandon my thoughts and opinions, and then he and their mom decide what's best for the kids as a whole. So I like to tell him I have about a 10% authority. I don't know if that's accurate. That's what in my mind, I have 10%. and same thing for, you know, son just graduated eighth grade.

Brandon Smith

And so it was, you know, mom, dad and me. And that's how it it's how it always is. I do get acknowledged, which I will say that is still that's great because I know there are a lot of step moms who don't get acknowledged. and I don't I still respect that they have a mom and a dad, so I'm not trying to be first or second.

Brandon Smith

but it is just something that I feel like if I'm going to tell a future step mom something, you have to be okay with being third at best. Sometimes it's it's fifth, sometimes it's mom, dad, sister, brother, then me, you know, like, I mean, it might be that might vary

Joyce Smith

or depends on his grandparents. It's like that. Like

Brandon Smith

if you can't take a backseat, it's going to be really difficult, for that.

Pat McCalla

or is that some of the things that you had

Brandon Smith

heard that. Yeah, I think so. it's also my personality. I'm much more behind the camera, not in front of it. Like I'm just much more behind the scenes. yeah, I am places, too.

Brandon Smith

And so sometimes

Joyce Smith

they're the best. It's not great being a three married to a nine. It's the best. I mean, we can just take advantage of it all day.

Joyce Smith

No I'm not, you know, it is because

Pat McCalla

nines I mean I always tell people if you can't like a nine or you don't like a nine, there's something seriously

Joyce Smith

right. Nines get along. Yeah, but

Brandon Smith

Handle that a little bit. Yes.

Brandon Smith

Absolutely. No. Unclear. Right. No I wasn't I was never trying to be mom. I was never trying to take that, that position in their life knowing. And I think there are some, some step moms that that's what they want. And maybe there are situations where that's necessary.

Joyce Smith

But do you see the tension there?

Joyce Smith

Yeah.

Joyce Smith

that. So. Well, just the tension in that, that responsibility versus authority

Joyce Smith

rejoices. She feels like she only has 10% authority in the kids. So she's giving me her opinion of what we need to do.

Joyce Smith

Well, I am now stuck between step mom and mom. I am about to upset somebody. And the repercussions for both are horrible. So there's that constant pressure that yeah, I'm not step parenting,

Joyce Smith

but I'm between wife, step mom. Yeah, yeah,

Brandon Smith

yeah. And inside your home and.

Joyce Smith

Right. Yeah. And so that creates tension between us because she has very strong opinions about something and that are different than their moms.

Joyce Smith

And I have to come in and try to navigate both. And it's yeah, it's not easy.

Pat McCalla

played that card much. I mean there's no kid that wouldn't. Right. But

Brandon Smith

they play the they play the mom dad card. Yeah. absolutely. I did that as a kid. Yeah, yeah, mom said I could do this, dad. You know, like. Yeah. Yeah. Or they know who to go.

Brandon Smith

Exactly. Yeah,

Joyce Smith

Yeah. I think what bothers me more is when the mom.

Joyce Smith

Plays the dad or plays the kid, uses the kids to. Rather than mom. Just asking me a question sends one of the kids to ask because it will benefit her in return. Like, that's.

Joyce Smith

I think there's certain things that I try to do my best that we need to keep business and not get the kids involved. And as soon as the kids get involved, it changes kids perceptions and they don't see the whole picture. They think, oh, dad's being a jerk because he won't help us with that. Well,

Joyce Smith

they don't know the whole story or see what you know.

Joyce Smith

And so so I struggle with that. But that's probably more of a me issue.

Joyce Smith

Because there's a like Joyce said, there's a lot of horror stories out there and we've been pretty blessed. We've got great kids. Yeah,

Brandon Smith

years

Brandon Smith

learned and what's a really

Brandon Smith

do. So yeah.

Joyce Smith

another thing. We've called one kid up. the kids are a bit older now, but when they were younger and had, you know, bedtimes and, you know, stricter guidelines, on the Thursday night, we would rotate each week, to the kids, would go to the bed, go to bed, and one kid got to stay up for 30 or 45 minutes longer.

Joyce Smith

And we did whatever that kid wanted. If they wanted to play a game, play cards, watch TV, just talk, you know, ice cream, whatever they wanted. But it was just an opportunity for it was kind of like a podcast, like I was hosting, but it was trying to create opportunity for join that kid to have one on one intentional conversation and time without the other kids interrupting, vying for position over talking and just so very intentional time.

Joyce Smith

and then I every Thursday morning would take a different kids rotation. we go grab coffee or go get coffee and a cookie or, and just have real life conversation. Hey, what do you like in about Joy? I know having to step mom's hard, but what don't you like? What? What are the challenges you're facing? And allowing them a safe place to vent to?

Joyce Smith

Dad. They trust dad. And allowing me to go back to Joy and said, hey, here's how every struggling. I think you're doing the right thing, but we may just need to tweak our communication to her because here's what she's hearing. Rather than creating conflict between Joy and Abraham, leaving them to sort it out. And so intentional one on one time has been good.

Joyce Smith

I would tell couples, go find somebody that's been where you want to go, go to dinner with them, have conversation, ask the hard questions, find a mentor. We we have mentors and business, and we have mentors in ministry. And

Joyce Smith

go find a relationship. Mentor someone who you want to your marriage, your relationship family to model theirs. You just so many nonverbals like I lean back

Pat McCalla

my knees bouncing now and I'm all excited because I just I think that's one of the most,

Pat McCalla

undershot things in our culture.

Pat McCalla

Like go find mentors. You want to have a good marriage and go find some, go find older people that are 20 years into a marriage and have a good marriage and say, hey, can we go out to dinner once a month?

Joyce Smith

Right.

Brandon Smith

now? Yeah, with

Joyce Smith

And

Joyce Smith

if you told me you're reading a book on how to make your business more profitable, I would applaud. Good for you or you reading a book on how to market or how to differentiate yourself.

Joyce Smith

All these things we applaud. But there's this shame and embarrassment. We're like, I'm trying to be a better husband, a better stepmom. Like, yeah, that's that's awesome. Like, good for you. We should all be wanting to get better. Go, go, read, invest, have conversations.

Pat McCalla

And there's people that have been down that journey before. My wife and I, we had we've had people over the years have come and said, well, you guys do pre-marital counseling for some, most time we'd say no because my wife hates those kind of things.

Pat McCalla

First of all, doing some kind of like official counseling. But we have said yes to saying, why don't we do this? Let's grab dinner once a month and you come each time with 1 or 2 questions that you want to ask. You guys just think about it and you ask us and that's what we'll do. Well, I that's the value of what you're suggesting of saying like, go do that with someone who's been down this road before with blended

Joyce Smith

right? For sure.

Brandon Smith

I mean, going in fact finding people that have been there, go ask the hard questions. be be open about whatever it is that you're going through

Brandon Smith

because somebody else, somebody has walked through before and they can help you through it.

Joyce Smith

I mean, Pat, you know me well enough. I try to live so intentionally, so I try to script and plan out every day. And so we've talked about. Hey, joyed. Probably a good idea for you just to stop in one of the kids bedrooms, like, go in their unsolicited sit on their bench talking about their day.

Joyce Smith

Don't don't wait for me to initiate the conversation like you lead with that or, you know, if we end up at like a sporting event together for one of the kids and we have multiple vehicles there, we're intentional. Okay. All right. Girls are going to that car boys in this car just to create conversation. So just being intentional about where seats are at the table or in conversations.

Joyce Smith

And I don't think it's a matter of step parenting. I think that's parenting in general. Kids need parents involved in their family.

Brandon Smith

think it's harder as a step parent because you're still getting to know and like, what are my boundaries? I think whenever they're littler, you have more of a parental role. But as they get older or when they're older, when you jump into the family, you my role and especially the older you live, is really just a friend.

Brandon Smith

Maybe, you know, some sort of authority, but not really parenting. But still, that takes intentional

Joyce Smith

conversation. Yeah, my brain's race. We're just looking for more practical, big believer in dinner as a family, sitting down at the table, turning off phones, devices, having conversation. I think our kids think that's what we do every night. even when they're not with us.

Joyce Smith

If they

Joyce Smith

if they can only see how we eat and what we do. Oh, yeah, the rules are different when they're home versus when it's just us. But,

Joyce Smith

I think it's really hard. There's all kinds of studies and statistics out there on kids and where they end up in life. If they're having a family meal 2 or 3 nights a week.

Joyce Smith

so in just very intentional family time,

Brandon Smith

being intentional in our off weeks as well.

Brandon Smith

Like when we don't have the kids, we still have to connect and talk and, you know, have more business conversations in that week that maybe it's harder to have when the kids are around. and so not letting that week slip by and be like, we didn't do anything. We were just

Joyce Smith

relaxing. It is like, it's almost like we create going into that Sunday night meeting, it's almost like running a business because we Preplan here's the agenda in the conversation. We need to bring up these three issues with the kids and the kids used to fear Sunday night meetings because they thought they were in trouble for something, and so we had to change the dialog to like, yes, because you're leaving next Sunday doesn't mean you don't.

Joyce Smith

You just throw all your laundry in the laundry basket and leave on Sunday. Like there's still responsibility here. They hear that as I got in trouble because I didn't do it like, no, we're just we gotta figure out how to navigate this and make this work. And the more weeks that go on, the better it gets. But with aging kids and teens, like, there's always something.

Joyce Smith

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Joy you brought up something to when you when you were talking that made me think I've often referred to parent different stages of parenting.

Pat McCalla

And I stole this from someone else a long time ago. I don't remember who it was, but you really, if you could break it down, you start as a commander, then you move to a coach, and then you go to a counselor

Joyce Smith

No, but you're the commander.

Brandon Smith

know, you know, let

Brandon Smith

Absolutely.

Brandon Smith

Yeah.

Joyce Smith

counselors

Brandon Smith

age.

Joyce Smith

That's what I call.

Brandon Smith

You get a counselor until you come and ask them out.

Brandon Smith

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, I it's definitely

Brandon Smith

difficult. you know, trying to figure out even just my expectations of how to parent and raise kids are different than his or yours or the next person.

Brandon Smith

And so I have to figure out what's already been established in the home. And I, we can make tweaks and we have and you know, I've said, well, what about this? Or, you know, let's I don't think the kids should go to that person's house or whatever that might be.

Joyce Smith

and it's hard. Different rules and different households.

Brandon Smith

Yeah.

Brandon Smith

The that's been a learning curve as well. And a couple already has to go through that. But

Brandon Smith

Yeah.

Brandon Smith

different

Joyce Smith

Right.

Brandon Smith

Yeah,

Joyce Smith

Yeah I think all the hard one is stepmom has no say when it comes to medical

Joyce Smith

decisions, which was really interesting. What we didn't see

Joyce Smith

coming.

Joyce Smith

step.

Brandon Smith

yeah. I mean legally step parents have no, no rights. because there is no unless the other parent is gone, unless there is no other mom or dad.

Brandon Smith

legally if something were to happen to their both the parents. Yeah, like I don't the school has, has my information so I, you know, emergency contact things like that.

Brandon Smith

But as far as like

Joyce Smith

Right. I'm not like yeah. Not to make it this political at all.

Joyce Smith

Let's just say there was some sort of like virus and there was a push to get,

Joyce Smith

you know, some sort of vaccine to protect you. If one parent says, hey, I surrender theoretically, theoretically, I really want the kids to be protected from this. And the other household is theoretically, I don't think they should for these reasons. The stepmom has

Pat McCalla

legally has

Joyce Smith

has nothing.

Joyce Smith

Right. And so so that so that so that's kind of been a hot topic in the last theoretically few years. but in terms of like even from

Joyce Smith

a young age, like you inherited, you know, as a stepmom, you inherited the medical background or,

Pat McCalla

like, you may disagree with

Brandon Smith

health.

Brandon Smith

Yeah.

Joyce Smith

Yeah, right. Treatment court. Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon Smith

I'm, I'm more like, just wait and see. Like more naturally minded. Yeah. And

Brandon Smith

that's not always what it looks like.

Brandon Smith

and so I'm like, okay, well, I just have to hope and pray that, you know, everything works out.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Okay. So, best and worst day

Pat McCalla

for years blended family. We've talked about the beauty, the complexity, the difficulties of it.

Pat McCalla

But, best and worst day.

Joyce Smith

The best day of the last four years.

Joyce Smith

There's two. I mean, there's two moments. One, the wedding day after the wedding. I thought you were going to say something that's coming. That's kind of,

Pat McCalla

for the audience. He's a huge Boston fan. And it's been

Pat McCalla

it's part of the flow of his

Brandon Smith

career

Joyce Smith

going

Joyce Smith

seeing the kids embrace that moment of it's official. We're family was really cool on the wedding day.

Joyce Smith

On the wedding, the second the wedding was over. Like,

Joyce Smith

my son was best man in the wedding. So his anticipation to sign the marriage certificate like it was official when, like, that was really cool.

Pat McCalla

and how old was he?

Joyce Smith

He was ten. That's cool. the best man. He was the best man gets to sign the wedding.

Joyce Smith

yeah. It's awesome.

Brandon Smith

I think family trips.

Joyce Smith

Yeah. It's hard. There's a moment of, like, if I go back to the nostalgic me, there is the moment with the whole family watching fireworks at Magic Kingdom at Disney World all night, like, wow, this is these are the moments you capture and

Brandon Smith

the beach last summer in Oregon,

Joyce Smith

I just say 4th of July.

Joyce Smith

Last year we were in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, on the lake,

Pat McCalla

that's a beautiful lake

Joyce Smith

The Sikh. Yeah. I don't want people to know it exists. Like don't go there. But yeah, but in July it's just incredible weather. But that day was just the perfect day because I mean, 4th of July, first of all, everybody's happy. It's the one day of the year.

Joyce Smith

We're all unified. nobody's working. It's lighthearted. You can eat whatever you want. You can wear whatever you want to wear. You're accepted. It's just great. But just that day as a family was just

Pat McCalla

was a it was a special

Brandon Smith

It

Joyce Smith

It was special.

Brandon Smith

Absolutely. Yes,

Brandon Smith

holidays I think because it's so hot here.

Brandon Smith

Nobody wants to be here. Nobody wants to sit outside for two hours

Joyce Smith

And it's just

Brandon Smith

dripping with sweat. Yeah. Go up

Joyce Smith

And like the day, like it's amazing.

Brandon Smith

Yeah.

Joyce Smith

weather this year.

Brandon Smith

this inside the car right.

Brandon Smith

It's 110 degrees outside at 9 p.m..

Joyce Smith

yeah for some of the storms.

Joyce Smith

Yeah. What's memories.

Brandon Smith

As far as blended family, like worst, worst days go, worst moments.

Brandon Smith

There was one day, I want to say it was like July. Like, probably two months after we had gotten married,

Brandon Smith

and just moved into our new house.

Brandon Smith

It was transition day. He had to be at the office at, like 8 a.m.. The kid's mom was coming to pick them up at like 9 or 10. So it was my first transition day by myself. The kids left at 10 a.m., the house is completely quiet. He's gone and meetings all day, and I'm like, what do I do with myself?

Brandon Smith

Like it was so heartbreaking, but also gave me a totally different perspective on what he dealt with before I was there. Now I'm there now we have each other and it's different. But for those however many years when your kids leave and there's nobody else in the house and they're gone for an unscheduled three days to seven days,

Brandon Smith

it's difficult just learning to be okay with the silence and and thoughts and you know, what is this like just the emotions of it.

Pat McCalla

I'll tell you one thing that I've, appreciated about this interview that we've done. It's only been, what, about 50 minutes or so, but, there's no perfect marriage.

Pat McCalla

Will never arrive in marriage, but I, I really appreciate how you both keep seeing each other through the other's eyes. Like. You're right. Like what you just said, joy. Like one of the most difficult days. It was a difficult day for you. But then you made you realize, like, oh, man, this must have been difficult

Brandon Smith

for Brandon. Couple

Joyce Smith

about how

Brandon Smith

Yeah.

Brandon Smith

family. Yeah.

Joyce Smith

well, even shout out to the single parents, you know, because I did that for years as well by myself.

Joyce Smith

And that that's a grind. Like when you're doing it all,

Joyce Smith

everything from working 40 plus hours a week to getting kids from point A to point B, grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning, house, homework, dinner. It is exhausting.

Pat McCalla

And you're trying to be

Brandon Smith

a mom and

Joyce Smith

a dad. Yeah,

Joyce Smith

And that's hard too.

Joyce Smith

As a dad, I'm more in tune to the physical needs and how to fix those, and not so much the emotional piece. So I think that's probably I don't there's a specific day, but I think some of the the hardships have been moms more emotional, dads more logical. And so it's really hard to help a kid and it creates, you know, you bring imperfect people into a situation.

Joyce Smith

There's drama and tension and

Pat McCalla

well, Brandon and Joy, thank you so much for being on no great areas.

Pat McCalla

This has been a really good conversation. I actually myself have learned a lot from this. And like you said, I by the way, Joy, you mentioned 70% is the is the number. That's one I read

Brandon Smith

too. Okay. I couldn't get I couldn't get to find it concrete. Yeah. So I said over 50%. Yeah. But I have heard the

Brandon Smith

Yeah. So lot and like you said there's about 50 different types. Yeah. So different types of and

Brandon Smith

Brandon Smith

But with that comes from. Absolutely. And

Joyce Smith

Yeah,

Brandon Smith

yeah, yeah, family of God.

Brandon Smith

Joyce Smith

I heard once heaven's going to look a lot like Walmart.

Joyce Smith

Everything you see in Walmart, that's heaven.

Joyce Smith

That's

Joyce Smith

every race, every status, every woman really scared. Yeah, yeah. For sure.

Pat McCalla

Well two truths and a lie.

Brandon Smith

Okay.

Joyce Smith

for this? It's awesome. Let's go.

Brandon Smith

so I've kind of written down

Joyce Smith

do we both get to go here?

Joyce Smith

Yeah. Okay. So do you want to go first? Sure. Yeah.

Brandon Smith

so I played soccer at the university of Iowa. Okay. I have visited 24 countries, and I ran the Chicago Marathon.

Pat McCalla

man. Okay. you ran the marathon.

Brandon Smith

I didn't run the marathon. Yes, yes. Good.

Pat McCalla

And,

Pat McCalla

you know what? Oh, man. I'm gonna say you played

Joyce Smith

soccer. Oh, I did not. You got in. Yes. I went to. Yes. Iowa

Brandon Smith

Did not play soccer, did not play collegiate soccer. I think

Pat McCalla

if you ran marathons, you're an athlete.

Pat McCalla

Maybe you

Brandon Smith

yeah.

Brandon Smith

Yes.

Pat McCalla

There's something beautiful about

Brandon Smith

There really is.

Brandon Smith

Pat McCalla

Favorite country you've been to?

Brandon Smith

Brandon Smith

Greece probably. Israel is probably a was a close second.

Pat McCalla

Yeah,

Pat McCalla

Israel. There's nothing like I. People would come back and say like, oh, man, it opens your eyes to the Bible. You'll read the Bible differently. And I'd always be like, don't say that because a lot of people can't go to Israel. Then I went to

Brandon Smith

Israel. You do you read the Bible? Yeah. You do. The Sea of Galilee. You definitely have a different perspective of what that actually was like, the boats that they had, I mean, just. Yeah, very different for sure.

Brandon Smith

All right.

Pat McCalla

There's no way you're going to get me Brandon.

Joyce Smith

Okay. Thank you John, I earned the presidential ambassador of Global Entrepreneurship award from Shark Tanks Daymond John and President Obama.

Joyce Smith

Okay, I've never seen Star Wars.

Joyce Smith

Pat McCalla

You're speaking TEDx talk. I know that one.

Pat McCalla

And.

Pat McCalla

I think what you just did to me is you threw in a name with the presidential because I think you got the award, but you just threw in one extra name. So that's the lie, isn't it?

Joyce Smith

That is not a lie. That is true. I have never seen Star Wars. Really? No.

Pat McCalla

You know me so much, but

Joyce Smith

exactly.

Brandon Smith

everything and be like, we'll never.

Joyce Smith

Joyce Smith

Joyce Smith

Yeah, yeah.

Brandon Smith

yeah. Well, now I need Charmaine here to. To be on my side. She can help you go. That's not.

Pat McCalla

don't know how many times we've had that discussion.

Pat McCalla

That's not what I

Joyce Smith

meant. Yeah, yeah, you have to have that a lot.

Joyce Smith

It's all right. Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's an honor. You.

Host

Thank you for joining us on this powerful conversation all about step parenting and blended families with Brandon and Joyce Smith. Don't forget to subscribe to no Gray Areas and follow us on all social media channels. We'll catch you at our next episode.