In this episode, we delve into the inspiring story of Mark and Jenny McMurray, owners of the Floor Coverings International franchise in North Tampa. From their initial meeting during Mark's time at the Naval Academy to their varied career paths, this episode covers a wide array of topics, providing an in-depth look into their journey as small business owners.

We meet the McMurrays and learn about the couple's background, from their college dating days to their married life overseas while Mark served in the Navy. This origin story sets the stage for their transition into the corporate world, Jenny as a CPA, and Mark specializing in quality process improvement with General Electric. They share how their respective careers provided a robust foundation for their current venture.

Next, the conversation shifts to their transition from traditional corporate jobs to owning and operating a small business. Mark's extensive work experience with the Lean Six Sigma process in consulting firms allowed him to develop a keen interest in process optimization. This eventually led him to take a significant plunge into the entrepreneurial world by purchasing a Floor Coverings International franchise in Tampa.

The discussion delves into the practical application of Mark's Lean Six Sigma expertise in the business. He explains the nuances between different Lean Six Sigma certifications and how these skills have been instrumental in snuffing out day-to-day challenges, implementing effective processes, and sustaining growth. Mark provides a fascinating look into how these principles have established a roadmap for business efficiency.

Mark and Jenny also discuss the dynamics of working together as a couple and transitioning from separate corporate jobs to collaborative business ownership. Their mutual respect and complementary skill sets play a big part in their success. They highlight the importance of clear boundaries and ongoing communication. They speak candidly about defining their roles, communicating effectively, and maintaining a healthy work-life balance.

Conflict resolution skills are another significant topic. Mark shares insights into the techniques he's learned through his career that have assisted in managing family conflicts and customer relations. Jenny underscores the importance of addressing concerns in a neutral and respectful manner, strengthening both personal and professional relationships.

As the discussion proceeds, they touch upon their innovative hiring practices. Both stress the importance of selecting team members who align with the company’s culture and values, and the unique multi-step process they use to ensure candidates are a good fit. Jenny’s role in the final stages of hiring highlights their comprehensive and balanced approach.

Building on the importance of team dynamics, Jenny and Mark talk about evaluating candidates beyond traditional interviews. They emphasize the subtleties of observing interpersonal interactions, respectfulness, and kindness, which can be revelatory about a candidate’s true character and fit within the business team.

The McMurrays then reflect on valuable lessons learned from their employees. They discuss how feedback, even from former employees, has been beneficial in refining compensation structures, improving employee satisfaction, and enhancing their overall business operations. They maintain a steadfast commitment to continuous improvement, a principle gleaned from Mark's consulting background.

Future plans for growth are another focal point of the interview. Mark expresses a desire to grow their business to a level that allows for an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP), aiming to share the success with their dedicated team. They also discuss the flexibility that comes with small business ownership and future hopes of eventually retiring with a system in place for smooth business continuity.

To conclude, they share details about how potential customers in the greater Tampa Bay area can find and connect with them. Providing contact details and locations of their showroom, the McMurrays extend an open invitation for consultations, emphasizing their commitment to community and customer-centric service.

You can reach them through their website: https://northtampa.floorcoveringsinternational.com/

00:00 Introduction to the McMurrays

00:35 From Military to Business: The McMurrays' Journey

02:11 Starting Floor Coverings International

03:42 Lean Six Sigma and Business Operations

06:04 Balancing Family and Business

11:31 Conflict Resolution Skills

25:36 Innovative Hiring Processes

26:53 Cultural Fit and Team Dynamics

31:11 Employee Feedback and Learning

33:00 Exit Interviews and Continuous Improvement

37:06 Sales Training and Accountability

42:35 Future Business Plans and Family Involvement

44:34 Contact Information and Services

Hi and welcome to another episode of celebrating small family businesses.

Today we are celebrating Mark and Jenny McMurray of Floor

Coverings International of Tampa.

Is that, did I mess it up already?

No, you're good.

Okay, I warned you I might.

That's all right.

It's all right.

we

We all go blank from time to time.

those words.

I'm telling you, we get flooring international, we get coverings

international, we get floor coverings, floor coverings international,

flooring Tampa, we get them all.

Oh, all right.

Well, so I love to always start with a, you know, an origin story.

Like, how did you guys get into where you are today working together?

Cause I don't think you started out out of college starting a business together.

No.

So, well, when we first met, we were, Mark was at the, the Naval Academy,

the United States Naval Academy.

Uh, and I was at school in Birmingham, Alabama when we met.

and so we dated and decided from there, Mark was, serving in the Navy in Japan.

So we got married and lived overseas with the military for, for a few

years and enjoyed that adventure.

And then, so Mark was in the military.

We came back to the States.

Um, and then when Mark decided to get out of the service , we, he went to

work in the quality process improvement.

Lean Six Sigma world , with General Electric.

So we, we moved around quite a bit with that.

My background, I'm a CPA , by trade, so I could kind of work anywhere.

So we, we moved around a lot with General Electric.

Um, and then he kind of went into business for, um, in consulting in that field.

He worked for.

Different companies that own brands and, and, and different things like that.

And he did projects for them for kind of going in and seeing how processes

can work better and helping companies be more efficient and things like that.

So, so he did that for consulting firms for quite a few years, but he kind of, Got

the bug for, for being a small business owner and maybe doing his own thing.

When you tell everybody how to do things better, uh, for many, many

years, you kind of want to kind of start doing it yourself and, and trying

to implement a lot of those things.

So Mark was working for the parent company for service brands that owns

floor coverings international, and they own other service companies

like Sertipro Painters and California closets and a lot of in home service.

companies.

, and so he worked with a lot of those teams and including the floor coverings,

international team, corporate team.

He really liked the model, , that they have, , as far as providing

in home consultations and really being partners with.

homeowners as they're trying to improve their homes and

make changes in their homes.

And he liked the technology stack.

He likes being kind of techie.

He puts all the measurements and tablets and pre, you know, but

that's how we provide our estimates.

And so he kind of liked all those aspects of it.

And so we decided, , in 2017 or actually 2016,

Mm

kind of take the plunge and, and, and buy a franchise of floor coverings

international so that we could, um, um, Could could run our own thing

together, and it was luckily we lived here in the West Chase area, so our

territory was available for purchase.

So it worked out really well that it was a good time.

Um, and we kind of kind of jumped in at that point.

So that's how we kind of got started.

So,

That is wonderful.

What a great warmup.

I mean, you know, that, that you started out working in the company,

you know, as a consultant and, and could see behind the scenes.

Right.

And you knew the strengths and weaknesses kind of coming in, you know, what you

would need to deal with and work with.

So, yeah,

wow.

So, Mark, how does your Lean Six Sigma, I read, you know, your bio and you

mentioned Master Black Belt, I hadn't heard Master Black Belt before, but

it sounds like you've got some serious chops in the whole Lean Six Sigma.

How did that play into being the, you know, the franchisee?

It's funny.

The only difference really between a master black belt and a black belt in

Lean Six Sigma world is a master black belt is the one who trains black belts.

That's really it.

Um, so when you've gotten enough projects under your belt and they,

they trust you to work with other team members because you don't break them

and they'll put you into that role and, and you start doing that and you start

growing

quite a few, there's quite a few additional certifications

that go into it as well, but he's being a little modest, but

He's being modest.

Yeah, I could

way.

kind of tell.

But I think with respect to like our local business.

You know, there's a lot that, you know, congratulations, you're

open and it's day one and go.

What do I do?

and so you know, yes, you have a playbook from the franchisor on how to conduct

an in home sale and They give you some guidance on like here's how to set up

a marketing plan, but there's really no , infrastructure built around, you

know, how you look at your business and, and how you tackle the process that come

up and how do you keep track of like all the various little nitnoy things that

happen when you're doing construction.

And so from a Lean Six Sigma perspective, it's.

Well, how do I wrap those up?

What kind of agenda do we need to put around those kind of checklists?

Do I need to build what kind of forms do I need to build?

What kind of process do I need to wrap around this keep it running?

With what frequency do I need to look at what metrics to ensure that my

business is on track on each of its four main balanced scorecard items?

And so, uh, you know, lovingly at one point, the vice president of

operations for the franchise network was sitting down with me as we were

going through just a business review.

And I think at the time I maybe sold a total of like a half a million dollars.

So it was still really very, very early days.

They said, Mark, you have built the process infrastructure

of a 6 million business for your little teeny tiny branch.

I was like, I know that's what I do.

So we had a good laugh about that.

Well, it gives you something to grow into, right?

that's right.

We're ready.

We're ready.

There you go.

You can just sit back and let it

Now we should go.

Oh, that's wonderful.

yeah,

Well, so, now family.

So you guys are husband and wife working together.

You came from both corporate backgrounds.

How was the, how did you manage the transition from working

separately to working together?

So I don't know if you know this about Jenny, but Jenny

is all in on in a good way.

So when, when she, when she came out of the finance and accounting word to

be a full time mom for awhile, she was like, uh, the Treasurer slash secretary

for like a mother's of preschool group.

And so she was responsible for putting together the newsletter.

That was the most pristine, perfect word Smith, top of the

line, New York times quality.

newsletter for that three years that she was doing that.

That's just what she brings to the game is that level of detail and

precision orientation, all that stuff.

so it, her coming into this role when I got started and it was just

kind of me, you know, kicking over apple carts and stomping on toes

and swinging elbows, trying to figure out how to do what I'm doing.

quickly realized that eye I have for the big picture on the broader scale

vision and the longterm focus and.

That is a great skill to have in my business, but it's also means that there's

a lot of what gets done on a day in day out basis that is not within my purview.

And she has that skill set.

Now at the time she was working for a small, um, Another

small business, actually.

Another family owned small business.

Interestingly enough, different family.

Um, but that did not last long.

I think I was in the business maybe 90 days or less before I'm

like, no, you need to be here.

and, uh, and that's been great.

It was, it was a very easy decision to bring her in full time because

I know her skills compliment mine.

Okay, so it was totally natural.

Just that you didn't have to, sounds like, um, work very hard to

figure out the whole defining the roles part of it and who does what.

It just,

Yeah, we kind of knew.

Yeah, we kind of knew pretty quickly what what we would be doing just based

on our strengths and weaknesses, what we would be good at and what we would,

And that, that's still, we still have those days where.

Uh, you know, as husband and wife, you can, you are communicating, you're,

you are on the same sheet of music, and you're like, okay, this needs to get

done, but there's that lack of uncertainty of, wait, did I just raise my hand for

that, or did I raise your hand for that?

Like, who has what?

And so there, we actually get clear about, just to be clear, this is mine, right?

Yes, that's yours.

Okay, got it.

And sometimes you just got to clarify.

yeah,

say most of all the time you need to clarify and you did it really

well just then, you know, just to be clear, you ask a question, it's

asking versus telling, right?

yeah, well, and there's always the work life balance.

You know, it is a little bit of a challenge when you work together all

day and then live together at night.

You know, it's, it's, it's sometimes easy, especially as small business owners.

I know a lot of people struggle with, you know, knowing the balance and I

know Mark is better at it than I am.

I'm working on stuff.

10 o'clock at night because I just didn't get stuff done.

And, you know, so we have to, he has to come in and be like, okay, you need to

get off the computer, it's time to, you know, so we, we did early on, we were not

as good at it, we're better at it now.

Um, trying to set those kind of, this is our family time now we need to stop,

you know, and this is, is kind of the focus, not that emergencies don't come

up and we always have things that, you know, you have to deal with, but

we try to really set aside the time.

Weekends are kind of like our time, you know, we are not going to try to invade

it as much as we can, you know, things like that, we weren't very good at that

at the beginning and we've gotten better over time as we've figured out how to

work together better, but most days we have a great time working together.

We're very fortunate.

Um, we, we, with complimenting each other, we have a good time

working together most days.

Most days.

We know that we know that.

Yeah.

And there's no escaping sometimes.

That's right.

I'm like, dang, I still have to go home and talk about this.

Yeah.

You know, the thing about it is, I mean, if you sit there and you

think about like one of the reasons you go into small business to be

an entrepreneur for yourself is the flexibility that comes with it.

And, and that's both good and bad, you know, on the,

Right.

good news, you know, if I need to take today, you know, this afternoon off,

cause my son's doing an art exhibit, or I need to take this afternoon off because

my daughter has a, a soccer tournament, you know, then I can absolutely do that.

The flip side of that, and I think this will resonate with anybody who listens

to this as small business is like, you're free to work whatever hours you want.

Which means you work all of them unless you set boundaries because you, it's

your business, it's your baby, you know, warts and all, it's your baby.

you know, for a process geek like me, there's always another

spreadsheet I could be doing.

There's another way of cutting that data and looking at it.

And she'll come in all like.

Excel tablets open and cross pivots and VLOOKUPS and you're going to be like, no,

I need, I need order sheets.

I need that.

Like, that's what you need to be focusing on.

Yeah.

And so there, there is that aspect of it, but that's the fun part of the

things that you find yourself doing in the business, which is a lot, you know,

a lot more fun than corporate work.

Yes.

Who knew?

I get that.

Yeah.

Right.

So is there a particular challenge that you've overcome working together

that you , you think that other small family business owners could learn from?

I think coming into this role, John, With the background that I have,

I've spent, and it's, uh, it's deeply affected my parenting and how I run my

marriage and how I talk to my customers.

I bring in a certain skillset that is tailored around conflict resolution,

which if you're in small business with your family members and you don't have

that skillset, that can, that can become a systemic or an endemic problem that can

be not only just on the familial side, but then manifest over in your business side.

And.

Um, we don't really kind of have, we don't have conflict, we do, but we do have a

structure for how to talk about it, and we do have a structure for navigating the

way through it, whether it's using, you know, any of the five principal tactics

for conflict resolution, but the entering argument there is like the purpose of

conflict is to, is to bring to the surface something that needs to be resolved.

Right.

it.

Allows us to air those grievances in a neutral non hostile way

without holding on to those grudges.

the little microaggressions and letting it build up until you're right.

but I do know that if a person going to starting a small family was just

and they don't have that particular skill set, they absolutely need to find

somebody in their environment around them to be that sounding board or

who can help coach them through that.

That's an invaluable skill to have in your small business.

One hundred percent.

Oh my

Cause it is stressful.

You know, there's a lot of stress you're dealing with, you know, all the time at

work and then it's makes home stressful.

And, you know, so there is a lot that you have to kind of just

make sure you're talking through regularly so that it doesn't build up.

Yeah, because everything's magnified, right?

Mm hmm.

you know, when you are in corporate or another job, you

can walk out the door and shut it

Right.

I can go home and not think about it.

Yeah.

And now you have to walk into your office at home

Right.

And Mark's asking me about it or, you know, like, yeah.

That's

Or, did I, I forgot to tell you about this, we need to do it and it's 11

o'clock at night but we need to do it now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We've all been there.

We've

So where did you learn that skillset,

Mark?

All been there.

The

This is gonna sound silly, John, but part of that we learned in our

young marrieds class back when we were living in Nashville, Tennessee.

We had a great young marrieds, uh, couple and they talked, we went through,

um, you know, you know, language.

Oh, and some keys, keys to hidden couple.

What was it?

Hidden keys to

Keys

lasting

in relationships or something.

Yeah.

Or lasting relationships.

something like that.

And that brought up the language of just introducing like, okay, you may not notice

this, but that felt like this to me.

Oh, and again, it's just about bringing neutral language to identify that a

conflict or an offense has just happened.

Um, and so when she says that, or when I say that to her,

it's a trigger that, oh, okay.

That wasn't my intention.

Let's talk about it.

also in the conflict resolution space, I learned that from being

a change management practitioner.

If you go through any of the change management courses, whether it's Cotter's

model or any of those models, they always have a section on conflict resolution.

And so I got certified in that along the way with my master black belt skills.

Um, and so it's just, it's another framework.

So if Jenny comes in and says, Hey, the way we handled that transaction, that was

like a rock, a rock's pretty big thing.

So then I'm like, okay, tell me what I said, how it felt.

So you feel felt found.

You can talk about the transactional analysis of when you said,

this is what I heard when I replied, this is what I heard.

This is how it felt.

This is what that felt like.

And now you're working through.

You know, you're one of your five major resolution strategies.

And sometimes the resolution strategy is we ain't got time to deal with it

right now, other than bring awareness.

And so we're going to use the avoidance mechanism and we know we're going to have

to come back and collaborate on it later, but avoidance is fine in the short term.

So I don't know if, I think I answered your question, John.

Yes, yes, I'm just, I'm I want to pull this out because this

is, I think, really key in family businesses, families in general.

well, people, I'm going to say people in general are not

trained in conflict resolution.

I mean, you know, that the formal training you've got is, you know, what I've got.

But, you know, we've learned, we've learned a lot.

And, and, and what, everything you said is, is, you know, what we practice and

what we, uh, teach other people to do.

And that's, you know, again, the, the feel felt found, and the I feel, you

know, it's always okay to say what I feel.

It's not okay to say, for example, you made me feel.

Right,

a different thing.

No, no, it's, you said this and, and I, I heard it this way and I felt that

way and, and so you own it, right?

Yep.

And, um, but that, we're not trained as a, as a whole, our society, we're not

trained that way and families don't have that skill in them and, and they may have

a habit of yelling it at each other and thinking that's a normal conversation.

Right.

And then just, and then ignoring it, you know, like,

no, that didn't solve anything.

Like to yell at your brother

right.

then not talk about it anymore.

Or

Yeah.

an argument is a conversation, a discussion.

That was, my parents always called it a discussion when voices got raised.

Discussion.

Yeah.

His, his dad's favorite quote was, listen to my words.

Don't listen to my tone of voice.

Seriously?

doesn't work.

But yes, I would say we've been very blessed with, with a lot of

the skills Mark learned and it was being a consultant, you know, change

manager, cause change is never easy.

Um, and so you're always going into situations where you're having to read

the room and you're having to read personalities and you know, he did a

lot of the training with the personality assessments and things like that.

So he's, he's pretty good at reading.

People and how they're reacting to things.

And that helps us with employees or with, you know, our family and different things.

So we've been very blessed that he came to it with a lot of skills that

he learned over time and developed.

So,

and dealing with customers.

yeah.

And it, again, yeah,

can be pretty, um, mean,

we love our customers and most of them are wonderful, but you

do get challenging people and

sure.

know.

had a bad day and they bring it and, and you're safe and so

they're gonna unload on you.

Yeah.

right.

Even if they're in a stressful situation and we're just a part of that, but you

know, anything we can do to kind of appease the situation smoothly, you

know, we'll try to make things easy and, and Mark's very good at helping

kind of mitigate that and really has a calming effect on people because he

does, you know, just try to address their concerns, the root of their concerns

instead of just what's happening in them.

Mm hmm.

your process is you are at at the ground level, so to speak, know,

you've, you've moved all their furniture out, you've disrupted

their life to a to a certain extent,

Right,

it, obviously.

Right.

you know, some people are not necessarily prepared for that.

Yeah,

right.

Or they did, you know, and Mark always, he'll tease, he tells people when we're

doing the estimates, you were in the home and we're discussing the project.

He's like, you will have your freak out moment.

I promise you it will hit a point.

You will be freaking out.

You will be please remember when that happens that I'll tell you,

remember we had this conversation.

It's going to be okay.

You know, it feels, I know it feels panicky.

You feel panicky, but it's going to, I promise we're going to get you there.

You know, like it happens to everybody.

Don't be alarmed.

You need

So yeah,

that so that they have it on

here's your little video.

here's your, exactly.

I cannot tell you how many times we'll be in the middle of a conversation.

Sometimes you might call it a spirited and lively discussion.

I'll say, is, this is that moment.

I told you then what I'm telling you now, which is, it's okay.

going to be fine.

We'll all get taken care of.

We're going to take care of it.

It's going to be okay.

I know it's a little scary.

It's going to be okay.

Yes, well, and I was thinking, you know, when you talked about conflict

resolution, sometimes I would imagine you get into a family situation where

the, maybe the husband and wife don't fully agree on the choice of flooring

that, you know, and, and they're, they're still kind of negotiating over

that when they've, when one of them's already told you, this is what we want.

And then there's some resistance that comes up.

That happens.

Yeah.

And

definitely that.

And, and the full extent of that, sometimes it's fairly early when

they're just picking products.

Oh, I really like this color.

That's too dark.

That's too dark.

That's too light.

And they'll look at me and go, well, what do you think?

As long as it's not a bad design choice, I'll just sit there and say, I think

you guys need to have a cup of tea.

Take a look at it tonight.

You don't need to make a decision right now, but I certainly am not going to

mitigate that response for you guys.

I will prevent you from making a bad decision.

But I cannot make your style choice for you.

on the other hand, the exact opposite.

All the way through.

Like a completion project.

Everything's put away.

Everything's done and dusted.

The floor looks beautiful.

Trim's done.

Everything like that.

And for the customer to come home and say, Wow, I really love it.

Only for the wife to say, Yeah, I don't know.

I'm like, Oh, well, this, this is interesting.

It's not how I imagined it.

One of your parents would have done that.

Yeah.

I was like, usually that's not, but luckily that is usually

not the situation at all, most,

right.

usually if anything, it's the wife loves it.

And the husband's like, Oh, it's fine.

That's fine.

He's not as.

likes.

Yeah,

Yeah,

I was lucky enough.

My parents built a house when I was a teenager and I was lucky enough to

get to choose, you know, my mother let me choose paint colors and carpet

and for everything for my room.

And, you know, looking at a paint chip that's this big, I, you

know, she showed me some colors.

I said, well, yeah, I mean, I like that color, but it's too light.

I can't even hardly tell there's color there.

And she said, it's going to look darker on the wall.

And

right.

her.

And so, you know, she gave me some running room.

I mean, we didn't go quite as dark as I wanted to, but it was about three

shades darker than what she suggested.

And when it was on the wall, by golly, it was, oh,

It's dark.

But, I learned a valuable lesson, I'm so appreciative that

she let me learn that lesson.

Well, there you go.

and you know, sometimes you just have to try it.

Yep, yep.

So what, if you were starting over today, and you were talking to your future

self, what would you want to tell them?

What did you, what did you wish you knew before you started?

Well, I would, I would tell myself to do it earlier.

Like I enjoy what I do so much.

I enjoy being my own business owner, manager so much.

I could have easily given up half of my corporate career

and done this much sooner.

Um, it's

Cool.

so, it's that much more fun than

Wow.

job I've ever had.

Uh, and I had some great doing stuff I did in corporate, uh, America.

That's for sure.

I had some great clients, great customers.

Uh, so do it earlier would be the first thing.

The second thing I would advise myself is, um, really, really, really be selective

over who you bring on to your team,

Ah.

the extra time, take the extra delay, take the extra expense.

Um, because you're going to live with them.

They're going to be,

Mmhmm.

it's a family business.

So

It is.

Mm hmm.

Mm

You're going to do life together.

And if it's a person who doesn't share your values or doesn't share

your level of commitment, or doesn't share how you think about customers,

how you talk about customers and how you talk about, you know, you know,

your faith walk with If they, if they're not that close of a match.

That's really hard to overcome and it can do a lot of damage to how you think

about future employees, future prospects, as well as damage, you know, obviously

existential damage to your business.

They can go out there and like, you know, a very, very bad

representative for your company.

But I think it's, it's, it's a lot more on the softer side of it.

It's just polyester.

That's not rocket science.

But how do I teach somebody to genuinely care?

hmm.

For the homeowner who may be a retiree from Michigan with nothing but time

on his hands, who wants to talk to you about their life story and their family,

their kids, and you've got to be genuine in that moment with the person because

that's taking their story is taking you somewhere to a solution that you're

going to be able to provide for them.

And you have to if you can't get how do you teach that I don't think you can

So I think I would tell my earlier self like double down on that far earlier

I burned through a lot of early sales people who weren't who weren't like

me who weren't good representatives

There weren't bad people.

They were good people.

It just, they didn't necessarily do things the way we did.

And it didn't, you know,

Yeah,

and

did you, um, I know you're into systems building and, and continuous improvements.

What, what did you put in place or what have you found that helps you,

because there's another, the other side of that is that it's, uh, it

can be a problem when people only hire people like them, you know.

So.

I think it's the values thing, but honestly you're gonna you're gonna

laugh at this Uh, and Connie, you're probably going to appreciate this, right?

Uh, the the answer is yes We've got we've tried a variety of different systems

approaches whether it's we take it We have them take a caliper personality

assessment for the position before we conduct the phone screen I do a remote

phone screening where I tell them about the position works and i'll discuss the

comp plan right up front So people are not Disappointed Demystified for them,

talked to them about it day and night.

So you try and paint the picture for what the work is the preliminary phone screen.

you really, really try and tell them like, this is the gig.

if they still want to come into interview, I admire their persistence.

The big process step that I put in that is like the heavy hitter process improvement

step is Jenny's The Last Interview.

And if

Whoa.

feel right about them for whatever reason,

Cool.

I trust her judgment more than mine.

Because by the time we get to that stage, it might be, this is not free from fault.

This is not, you know, doesn't mean we've got this down.

Perfect.

We don't.

If Jenny doesn't feel right about them, she doesn't have to explain that to me.

She could just say, I don't know.

I don't know about that guy.

Smart.

again,

like it, but I don't feel great.

I have to trust her judgment, because by that time, I'm emotionally

invested, so I'm compromised.

said!

Cause he, he's making sure they have the qualifications and they have the

technical skills, you know, like, so we know we can, can work with them.

But again, you know, for me, it's just more of the, do they fit into our culture?

And, you know, and, and Mark is very first one to say, you know, I'm not an

actual salesperson, I'm hiring somebody that's a sales, you know, like we're.

We're very honest with these are our strengths.

These are not our strengths.

That's why we're bringing you into the team because we need

these types of strengths.

This is what we're looking for.

You know, so I think that's, you were kind of asking like, how do you

not hire somebody exactly like you?

Um, we kind of know what we like or what we need to compliment

our team, um, and complete our team and, and make us successful.

So.

Yeah.

So we're, we're real honest and open about that up front and just, we see,

you know, we, we joke around, have a good time, go to lunch together and you can

kind of tell a lot, um, based on just how they interact with the waitress or how

they interact, talk about their family.

You know, that, that gives you a good feel culture wise, if they're a good

fit for your, for your small business.

So that's kind of what we found anyway.

Nice.

Jenny, is there a, there a particular tell that you, that you kind of lean on?

Oh, I don't necessarily think so.

I don't know.

I don't know.

And Mark asked me that too.

He's like, what was it?

And I'm like, I don't know.

But I think a lot of time, I like, like we just mentioned, I think

the way they talk about their spouse or the way they talk about

Yep.

or the way they, um, like I said, things like, are they polite and

kind to the waitress who messed up their order or whatever,

big.

like, Things like that, you see their real, they're not trying

to put on a show for you and the conversation, they're just interacting.

I think things like that really do give you their true non

interview type outlook on things.

And, you know, you know, there's always the things like how do they

dress and how do they, you know, those things you're looking for

for an interview, things like that.

But I think it's mostly that it's just kind of their, how their personality

comes out, I think to me is what I kind of

Okay.

How

for.

in a social situation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just so you know.

a lot of stuff.

Right.

Cause especially with us, with being in home sales, I mean, they're in someone's

home and they're like Mark said, it's not a short process you're there for an hour,

hour and a half with them spending time.

Are they going to pet the dogs and be considerate to the kids

that are climbing on their stuff?

And, you know, are they going to be considerate?

Like we would want them to be.

With, with people, you know?

Um, so yeah, I think it's kind of that idea and, you know, we all want a great

salesman that's going to go out and sell a million dollars and, you know, but

it's not just about being a salesperson, you know, there's a lot that goes

into it when you're in somebody's home taking care of them and their family.

So.

It's very personal.

Yeah, it is.

And they're showing you what they hate about their house.

It could be embarrassing.

It could be not fun, but you know, they're bringing you in, even if there's

dirty clothes on the floor or whatever, like they're bringing you in and showing

you have to be respectful and kind to them no matter what it is, you know,

excuse the mess.

I'm like, you have no idea what a mess is.

Believe me.

I've been in messes.

This ain't it.

Right.

we've seen it all.

We've seen it all at this point.

You have stories.

That's right.

All of our franchise, we have franchisees all across the country.

You know, we get together once a year for our conventions and different

meetings and things like that.

And they're always abused by our, you know, you have estimates, we tease

about our clothing optional communities.

Sure.

We've done estimates in those and they think that's so funny.

They just laugh and, you know, but we, we go where we need to go.

That's right.

that in Boston, right?

Everybody needs new floors sometimes.

So,

That's right.

And

so it's fun.

It's fun.

It's never a dull moment.

It's always exciting.

So.

That is so fun.

That is so, so fun.

This gives you new things to think about when you hear the term carpet burn.

I wasn't going to go there, but thank you for doing it.

Oh, we got to have dinner.

Oh, yeah.

So, one

I

the, another question I would really like to ask is, what's one

of the most valuable things you've learned from one of your employees?

Oh boy, I'm gonna noodle on that one.

Jen, do you have an example off the top of your head?

mean, I think we're constantly learning from our employees.

Um, I think just things we've learned over the years with, with our employees.

I mean, we honestly, obviously think our employees are like

family and we bring them in things, everything that we're doing.

Um, but I think really just making sure you have fun together too.

Um, making sure you're doing things and building that culture of.

We can still go out and go ax throwing or do something fun together.

You know, not, we can't do it all the time, but you know, we have events and

bring families and if it's something we can all share together, I think

that's been real important, something we've, we didn't necessarily do at the

beginning, but we try to incorporate, you know, now to make sure that

everybody's enjoying where they work.

Um, so I think that was a big thing.

Um, we've, we've taken feedback from our employees, even

employees that have left us.

You know, for multiple reasons, you know, health reasons, or maybe

they're moving or different things.

Um, and even, you know, they just found a different job that was in their

background and they wanted to go do that.

And, uh, you know, um, and so we take feedback from them for sure.

Like they've helped us with, you know, even just compensation.

You may want to try to restructure your compensation a little bit this

way, because this is a moral boost for.

Your, your salespeople or, you know, things like that.

So Mark is really good at really asking kind of some questions.

You know, we generally know we, most of our employees have left for,

you know, real, they're moving back home with family, different things.

Um, so we're, we're not afraid to really ask.

And even those that didn't, we ask kind of for feedback on things we could

do better and, um, you know, things we could, you know, kind of change

to make it a better fit for people.

So over the years, we've definitely done that.

Is that something you learned in the corporate world?

exit interview thing?

Um, I'm not sure.

I think, I think I, well, I first started doing that back when I

was on active duty in the Navy.

When, um, when the sailors would come time to rotate off the ship as the

division officer, you're their intake and their, their exhaust point, right?

Um, and so, I think I just had one of my senior chiefs sit me down one time and

said you really should ask the sailors as they're leaving what they thought

it was like to serve under the Hugh and under your command when you were there.

And so I think, I think I started doing it then and it's just kind of stuck.

Um, and it wasn't, it wasn't ever meant to be like formal exit interview.

It's, hey, you're heading out off to the, I think you're

going to the USS Bellamy Wood.

That's awesome.

While you were here working the main propulsion on our ship, what did you see?

What could we have done differently?

You

Smart.

we good at?

What, what wasn't so great?

Um, and boy, ask a

it or she'll tell you.

they're going to tell you, you know?

Uh, and that's, and that's fine.

And I, I think I just carried it forward from there.

And then especially with.

Man, being a management consultant, You have to actively solicit client feedback.

I mean, you have to

Yeah.

do it.

It doesn't matter how great you think a project's going, like maybe saving,

you know, a boat ton of money, or maybe saving a boat ton of time, or maybe, you

know, thinning out inventory by a lot.

And, and that's great.

And from a Lean's Exhibitor perspective, like, woohoo!

You know, yay!

We're hitting our, we're hitting our targets.

Like, we're doing what we're supposed to do in terms of variable

based off productivity or whatever.

But along the way, you know, you are making changes and

change is uncomfortable.

Um, and as a management consultant, you're constantly having to check in

with you know, the, the people who, for whom it really matters, the CFO may

be super happy with the results of the project, but if it's the truck drivers

who are the most affected and they're really disaffected by the project.

Well, then you need to figure that out fairly early on.

And so

Mm hmm.

asking on how things, I mean, Jenny will laugh at me because

we will have a level 10 meeting.

It'll be just her and I, and I'll go through the agenda and I'll look at

it and go, so how'd the meeting go?

And she, it were, our, our meeting is like, I'm at this desk.

She's right there.

She's like, you were here in the meeting with me.

You know how the meeting went.

Yeah.

And so I know from my perspective,

Right.

it doesn't mean I can't do more of less of, or do it better, different next time.

So

But we do the same thing, yeah.

it

Yeah.

of that, John.

I really do.

That's awesome.

That's another, I mean, so I've heard several things there that hopefully

people can take away from this.

That kind of, what you're just describing there, you know, you take, you're taking

something that's relatively, comes from a relatively formal, or could, can

be formalized and, and making it, but applying it in an informal situation.

and, Yeah.

Again, a process, you're talking about a 10 step process when

you're just sitting there together.

It's so easy to just slough that off.

Yeah, we were here.

Let's go eat.

but to do it and, and, and just make it a habit, that's powerful.

It is.

Yeah.

we, we call it three, two, one, three things we did right.

Two things we did wrong.

And what would we do differently next time?

That's good.

Yeah.

that coming back from our networking meetings.

We went out to lunch with some friends the other day.

Well, you know, what worked for you on that?

And amazing what we find out about each other during those little

Right.

Yeah.

And the

Yeah.

doesn't have that doesn't have to be anything wrong.

It's just an opportunity, but we want to maintain a balance that there's more.

There's more that work than didn't work.

Right.

Right.

Or how do we get there if it wasn't, you know, like, what do we

need to do those things anymore?

Yeah.

And just to remind ourselves that, you know, we had a good time.

That's right.

So when we do a sales That's probably here, actually.

Probably right here at the beginning of my So going to the home, this is my brain.

Right?

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

from all the appointments that I've run, you know.

I go into the

Smart.

write down the name of the customer, write down the date, write down what we

looked at, write down all that stuff.

And

Good.

but the front part of this, and you're going to laugh, there's my

Nope.

Good.

Good.

Mm

me and my salesperson, especially going through training, it's

like, okay, here's the 11 steps.

Which one do you think you absolutely nailed?

And I'll get that feedback from him.

And then I'll give him feedback saying, I actually think you nailed this one

really well, or yeah, I think you really absolutely nailed that step.

What's the one thing you want to try and incorporate in the next sale?

Just the one thing.

right.

Are you willing to let me hold you accountable for

whether or not you did that?

And sometimes the answer to that is no, I'm not willing to be

held accountable for that yet.

I'm like, okay, we're not there yet.

So those two questions.

And again, John, you're going to laugh at this.

So the same questions I would use with Boy Scouts at summer camp.

So when I was assistant scout

hmm.

was the assistant scout master for leadership.

And so we would go on camp outs.

And at the end of the day, I'd grab the senior patrol leader and the three or

four assistant senior patrol leaders.

They all could sit down at a table with me and one of the other assistant

scout masters with our two rule.

And I would sit there and say, OK, guys, what went really well today?

Mm hmm.

talk and I'd say, okay, what was not so great?

to the boys

Right.

And I'd say, okay, well, based on what you learned, what are you

going to do differently tomorrow

Exactly.

talk.

What are you going to do?

Mm hmm.

Mm

then was the

hmm.

And these boys are 13, 14, 15, 16 years old.

They're all, you know, young, uh, but they.

would take that really seriously.

and I would hear from the

boys

when they were eagle Scouts, like how much of those evening conversations meant to

them as they went through the scouting program and eventually eagled out.

So there's no magic there.

They're not difficult questions to ask.

And, you know, there's not a whole lot of heart work on my part to

ask those questions, a lot of heart work and supporting them as they

work through the self critical aspects of it, because if you

Mm hmm.

tear themselves down, they will.

And if you let your

Oh, yeah.

down, they will.

And if you let your spouse tell her, tear herself down in the business, she will.

So there's, they have

Mm hmm.

that cheerleading component into your leadership style, I think.

Right.

Wow.

Yes.

Well said.

I think you said there's no magic.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna differ with you just a little bit on that.

I think the magic is that those boys, a lot of them haven't had an adult

ask, really ask what they thought and ask their opinion as a peer.

And, and it's, you know, it's a, it's a huge opportunity to actually

say what they think and the thing you did with your salesman where

you said, You know, it's, it's okay.

Basically, I'm, I'm, you laid groundwork.

You didn't say so, but you laid groundwork that it is okay to say I'm not willing

have you hold me accountable for that yet.

You know, I'm just, I don't feel ready for that.

That, and, and to have that level of autonomy, that's huge.

And it shows, uh, it builds a lot of trust.

You really cannot, I

So, awesome.

train, and we certainly do train.

I could train on a sales process.

Um, And let's say part of the sales training process is you need to say these

words this way, very, very prescriptive while you're going through training.

And eventually you personalize and it becomes yours and it becoming

yours is the most important thing.

And so what you can't do is make somebody really uncomfortable when

they're already uncomfortable.

They've got a new job with a new boss and a new van with a new sales system

with new vocabulary, new products.

So, Yeah, let me just double down on that raw native insecurity and

trigger your amygdala brain, right?

And now I've got a person who's basically in panic mode that I induced.

by giving them the out of, hey, are you ready for this yet?

You know that this part of the process is coming.

You've been through the training.

You know, eventually I'm going to want to see you do it.

Are you ready for it yet?

And if the answer is no, I'm not ready for it yet.

That's acceptable.

Now, longer term, in terms of like, you do have to plan for

the growth of your salesperson.

I'm not ready for it forever is a problem.

But I'm not for, I'm not ready for it right now is a litmus test on the

development of your, of your employee.

That holds true whether it's a production coordinator, an office manager, a

salesperson, a general manager, a CEO.

It doesn't matter.

Everybody has parts of their role that they're not ready for or comfortable with.

At any given time.

We've not, none of us have arrived.

We're all in the process of developing.

You guys sound like wonderful people to work for.

Sorry about that.

You're not writing your resume.

Let me get my resume right over to you.

Oh gosh.

Well, so, uh, I guess last question, what's next for, for you

guys in your, in your business?

I mean, we talked a little bit about, you know, you've built a,

a system out that you can grow

Where, where are you headed?

World domination, you know.

Are the kids coming into the business?

You know, anything like that?

probably not.

You know, our son is a graphic artist and he works for, um, a large multinational

consulting firm and he's enjoying doing that and he has an indication

that he's kind of inclined that he may want to go back and pursue advanced

education with an eye toward maybe becoming a teacher in that space.

Great.

Do I use his graphic artist abilities when I need to have an art, you know,

an ad drawn up or a social media thing?

Yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll kind of grab him for that.

my daughter want

he does that.

He definitely does help us in the business.

Yeah.

Cool.

yeah,

So he's a consultant to you.

Exactly right.

you know, does my daughter, you know, want to grow up and

take over our flooring company?

Ah, maybe, I don't know, you know, she's young, she's still figuring out

which end of the ship is pointy and which end's flat, and that's fine.

You know, where I would love to see my business grow is to get to a certain

revenue level, but also to have the right people in it that we could convert from

our, from our C Corp into an LLC and set it up for an ESOP, uh, transfer of

ownership when I'm 70 and want to retire.

but.

Who knows?

You know, that's up in the air.

But if I had my druthers, yeah, I'd love to get to that team with six or

seven people who are all emotionally invested in the business who want to be

part of an ESOP plan and go from there.

Eventually.

Yeah.

Transfer ownership that way.

Very cool.

Sure.

Very cool.

Well,

Yeah.

When we finally get to retire someday.

Yeah, we know.

For our listeners that are in the greater Tampa Bay area, how do people find you?

Your

right.

we

Remind me?

Let me know.

Alright.

yeah, we have a variety of websites, but the easiest one is Tampa flooring dot com.

Um, that's a website which will take you to our, you know, our specific

website of the FCI, of the Floor Company's International Portfolio Group.

Um, or they can find us in Oldsmar.

Our offices are right there off of Duncan Road and Oldsmar.

So we're easy to find our showrooms right there.

Um, or they can give us a call.

Jenny's and Maya's numbers are pasted all over the web.

So

Yeah.

So our, our, our main line number usually Yeah.

Our main line number usually comes to me.

Um, and that's, that's the 813 501 7554.

So people can always call us and then we can set up, you know, time.

We can cover kind of the whole Tampa Bay area.

Um, our offices are in Oldsmar, um, right there in Pinellas, North

Pinellas County, but we can kind of cover the whole area of Tampa Bay and

help, you know, anybody that needs us.

So yeah, you're welcome just to give us a call directly and we

can set up time to get together.

Excellent.

Excellent.

And you, so that I just learned something.

I knew that you guys did like in home, but you also do have a, your,

a showroom that people can come to.

And want to look

We

that

do.

they can.

Yep.

do.

We actually have, um, yeah, most of what we, you know, we carry the thousands

of samples and colors and everything in the vans, but we have quite a few

larger samples and there's some products that we don't show as often that are in

the, in our showroom, things like that.

So we have a little bit more of things in the showroom.

So we can always pull from there.

We're happy to meet customers there, uh, in the showroom.

Uh, we do usually do that by appointment just so that we can make

sure one of the vans is there as well.

Cause those are our most, you know, most popular things are in the van.

Uh, so we want to make sure one of the vans is there so that, you know, and

a sales rep is there to meet with you and kind of educate you and help you

figure out what, what would be best.

So, yeah.

So you're always welcome to stop by or, uh, you know, we can come to you.

So,

Outstanding.

Well, thank you so much for spending this time with us.

Oh, our pleasure.

getting to know you guys better.

It was great.

Thank you for having us.

We enjoyed it.