In this episode, Jamey tackles the confusion and challenges surrounding diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts—particularly in the context of recent executive orders and shifting federal climates. Jamey discusses the impact of these orders on federal agencies and government contractors, noting the chilling effect they've had on DEI programs nationwide. He highlights the widespread uncertainty they've created about which DEI initiatives are legally permissible, pushing many organizations to unnecessarily scale back their efforts out of caution or a perceived desire to comply with the current administration. Despite these challenges, Jamey reassures listeners that DEI programs remain legal and essential for organizational success.

The heart of the episode centers on diversity recruiting in this uncertain environment. Jamey lays out six actionable strategies for leaders to ensure their recruiting processes are both impactful and legally compliant. He emphasizes the importance of avoiding quotas, setting aspirational but realistic representation goals, broadening recruitment pipelines, and maintaining a strong commitment to non-discrimination. The discussion also covers the importance of articulating organizational values around DEI and ensuring fairness throughout the hiring and promotion process. Jamey closes by reminding listeners to tailor these recommendations with their legal teams and offers continued support for organizations striving to move DEI forward.

To learn more or connect with Jamey, visit: www.equity-at-work.com

Key Topics Discussed:

• Impact of Executive Orders on DEI Programs
• Legal Status and Misconceptions about DEI Initiatives
• The Administration’s Framing of DEI and Merit
• The Subjectivity of "Best Candidate” and Organizational Value of Diversity
• Six Strategies for Diversity Recruiting:
• Avoiding quotas
• Setting aspirational representation goals
• Articulating organizational values
• Commitment to non-discrimination
• Broadening recruitment pipelines
• Adjusting programs to comply with legal requirements
• The Importance of Recruiting from Untapped Talent Pipelines
• Legal Considerations in Internship and Broader Recruitment Programs
• The Need for Consistent Evaluation and Structured Interviews
• The Role of Legal Counsel in Implementing DEI Strategies
• Guidance for Ongoing DEI Work and How to Reach Out for Support

I'm Jamey Applegate, Senior Director of DEI at equityork, and this is your DEI Minute, your Go to podcast for leaders looking to navigate the ever evolving landscape of diversity, equity and inclusion in the workplace. Whether you're just starting out with DEI or looking to sustain your long term successes, each episode will provide you with the actions you can take to move DEI forward at your organization, all in 15 minutes or less. Join us every other week as we break through the noise and help you do DEI right. Let's get to it. The Trump administration's executive orders aimed at diversity, equity inclusion have caused a lot of chaos and confusion within the scope of the federal government. It has led to the shuttering of DEI offices and the elimination of DEI programs In the larger world of workplaces. It has caused significant confusion about what is legal and what programs and initiatives can continue. Before we jump into what we're going to talk about today, which is diversity recruiting, There was a Feb.

21 decision by a federal district judge. I mentioned this on the last episode. It applies to federal agencies and businesses that contract with the federal government, and it also states that having the DOJ investigate companies with DEI programs likely violates the First Amendment of the U.S. constitution. This episode, as we talk about diversity recruiting, is going to imagine a world in which those executive orders are allowed to go forward and in which there are potential investigations into diversity recruiting practices. So we're going to talk about how to navigate that situation right now. So to many, the confusion that I mentioned being cause is the point. The goal is to create a sense of concern or fear around anything DEI related by using vague language mentioning unlikely but very scary consequences for wrong moves, things like investigations, and omitting any guidance around what is actually permitted or what can be done.

So many companies are pulling back on DEI out of either out of that sense of caution. The thinking is that doing less makes them less vulnerable to attention or investigations from government agencies, or they're doing it out of a desire to be seen as acquiescing to the current administration's goals. In a sense, they are playing ball to curry favor or to avoid scorn. As a reminder, diversity equity inclusion programs and initiatives are still legal, and today we're going to talk specifically about efforts to recruit diverse talent in this new world. So to start, I want to talk about what the current administration is articulating. To the current administration, diversity, equity and inclusion equates to efforts to hire individuals from diverse backgrounds who are not the quote unquote, best person for the job or who lack the skills to successfully undertake the requirements of the job. Their assertion is that consideration of anything other than merit is illegal and represents a form of discrimination, typically against people who are white and male. I share this because to me, I don't think this thinking makes any sense.

Diversity, equity and inclusion are just that, acknowledging and celebrating differences, ensuring each person has what they need to be successful, and taking efforts to make sure each person is seen, heard and valued within the organization. Why would an organization ever hire someone they do not think is capable of doing the job that they were hired for? That would simply lead to more work for others, lack of production, missed targets, and high turnover. Companies are too focused on achieving their performance goals to hire people who are unqualified. Additionally, diversity recruiting is 100% about merit and finding the best talent. It's about understanding that a diverse group of employees improves innovation, improves employee engagement, and improves achievement of business outcomes. By making sure that we actually have a wide variety of perspectives, we bring in many voices and we let the best ideas win. It's also about understanding that merit is subjective and that identifying who is the quote, unquote best person for the role is subjective. The baseline is that we expect each person we hire to be able to do the job.

And the real question we should be asking is what does this person bring to the organization in addition to their ability to perform the technical tasks of this role? How do they advance our goals of having a collaborative, welcoming and engaging culture where everyone feels supported and is set up for success? Finally, it's about understanding that there is so much talent out there to be found and invited to join our organizations, and that we have not always done the best job but or had enough internal capacity to find that talent. We've relied on personal networks or a small set of talent pipelines for recruiting, and we've often overlooked certain pipelines because we incorrectly thought that we couldn't find talent there. It's about putting in the time and energy and effort to really say that we are finding the best talent wherever it is. So how do we implement strategies to recruit diverse talent in a way that is legally compliant and helps us find the true best talent for our organization? Here are six tips. Number one don't set quotas. Quotas are illegal and they do end up leading to hiring or not hiring people because of their race or gender or other identity and not because of their experience and expertise. Quotas are impractical and they are harmful. They are built on prejudices and stereotypes against certain groups and perpetuate the myth that People from some backgrounds might only be considered qualified if the standards are lowered or if they are not competing against candidates from other backgrounds.

Number two Instead of quotas, set aspirational representation goals. One way to do this is to reflect your geography and industry. It is completely okay to articulate that your goal is to look like the communities in which you operate or that your goal is to be representative of the industry of which you are a part. So many organizations are part of industry associations that publish this data. Look at those and say, are we close? Another potential goal could be to be representative of the demographics of those earning certifications or degrees in the fields from which you hire. 3. Articulate your values. Explicitly communicate internally and to potential employees that your organization's position is that diverse teams drive business outcomes and that this has been borne out in the data year after year after year after year.

It is indisputable. Articulate that your organization is committed to using its resources, time and energy to find talent wherever that talent is, and articulate that your organization hires top tier, excellent and talented employees and that employees are held to two overarching to be knowledgeable about their area of expertise and complete their technical tasks successfully and on time and to be a great teammate. Someone who makes the organization a great place to work and contributes to a meaningful and positive workplace culture where everyone feels welcome and set up for success in their role. Someone who's supportive of others. Someone who communicates and collaborates well. I can go on and on. Someone who leans in when others need help. In short, someone who other people want to work with and who they enjoy working with.

4. Articulate your commitment to non discrimination in hiring and promotions. Explicitly state that your company is an equal opportunity employer and identify policies that you have in place to ensure that no one is discriminated against. Each candidate should go through a structured interview process in which they are all asked the same questions and in which evaluation criteria are consistent. Number five Broaden your recruiting and tap into currently untapped pipelines. Develop a strategy that truly allows your organization to say it's finding the best talent, wherever that talent is. You might only recruit from universities that are ranked top 10 in a given field. You might only recruit within the state or states in which you already operate.

You might recruit based on where your leadership went to college. You might only recruit from Ivy League schools. Those places definitely have talent, but that's a narrow pipeline and if we rely on just those few pipelines, we're missing so much potential talent. Lead a discussion on why our organization recruits in the way that it does. Ask what a broader strategy might look like. Where are we not looking that we could be looking? Where are our competitors looking? Where can we find folks who not only have the technical skills, but who will also work hard and bring something extra to our organizational culture? Adjust any existing programs that do prioritize certain groups or only allow participation from specific groups. This mostly applies to initiatives like internship programs, which are sometimes explicitly targeted at certain populations. Some companies have internships that have been exclusively for young black talent, or for young Latino talent, or for young women, or for a larger grouping of, you know, people from historically marginalized communities.

The intentions behind these kinds of programs is really admirable. Those groups have been excluded from opportunity or outright dismissed as potential talent pipelines. So a remedy is to build a new door for them to walk through. But it is likely running afoul of the laws to deny certain applicants based on a protected characteristic. So make sure it's clear that all internship opportunities are open to everyone. That being said, there's nothing to say that you can't recruit from the colleges and universities of your choice, and there's nothing forcing you from recruiting at colleges and universities from which you do not want to recruit. Spend your recruiting dollars in ways that align with your goals and values. Again, the application is open to everyone and each candidate will be considered based on their ability to do the job and what they will add to the company.

But no one said we can't put a special emphasis on recruiting from places where we might find new and diverse talent pipelines. You could also take a page out of Colleges and Universities Playbook and insert an open ended question on the application that asks how a candidate's lived experiences will contribute to making the company a great place to work and to create a meaningful and positive workplace culture where everyone feels welcome. A question like this can help you understand how a person sees themselves and their ability to connect with their peers to develop meaningful and productive workplace relationships. Quick Addition these comments about internship programs also apply to recruiting more generally. Your hiring and promotions practices must be about who can do the job and who adds to the workplace culture. But your organization can choose where it recruits from. There's no entity that can dictate where you have to send recruiters or where you can and can't form partnerships with career services and professional advising offices. Do with that what you will.

As a note before we end this episode, all of this guidance again is just general guidance. It's not specific to any workplace or industry or or organization. As you apply it to your workplace. Please make sure you connect with your legal counsel for more situation specific guidance. And as always, if you're working through how to continue your DEI work or how to implement recruiting diverse talent in this new environment, we're here to help. Please send us an email or connect with us on our website. That's all for today. Thanks so much for listening.

That's a wrap. I'm Jamie Applegate and that's your DEI minute for today. Thank you for listening. Please be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a review. If you ever have questions, please visit our website or send us an email. You can also sign up for our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter and Instagram. Links to everything can be found in the episode Notes. This episode was edited and produced by Pac Pro with podcast art by me, Jamie Apk.