The idea of "personal branding” can be a bit exhausting. The thought of carefully curating a version of yourself that’s optimised for engagement feels like too much effort if you struggle to be anything other than yourself.

Amanda Baker has been developing a framework to help people navigate their own authenticity, and Carlos will be bringing his own reflections on what it means to market yourself in a way that feels human, joyful, and not like you’re constantly performing.

If you’ve ever wondered how to share your story without feeling like a product – or how to stay visible without losing yourself – this conversation is for you.

so tomorrow I'm gonna be doing a fireside actually, and that's what my context is

for running these webinars with our Friday fireside, which we turn into a podcast.

So I have no idea actually how to introduce this other than tell a story.

So I'll tell my story.

Oh no, you tell your story.

Then I'll tell my story and then we'll see if we have a shared reality around this.

Yeah, let's do it.

Um, so we went to Ann Law's, uh, book launch, didn't we?

Um, and for anyone who doesn't know who Ann Law is, um, she's

the incredible author of this.

tiny experiments, it's really, really brilliant.

It's about how to live freely in a goal, goal, best world, and let's

be honest, goals just really make us feel rubbish when we don't meet them

and hit them so it's just a beautiful way to live with our curiosity and

follow the fields that come curious.

So if you haven't heard it, please go and get it.

It's gorgeous.

So we met them.

And I saw Carlos literally from the corner of my arm.

I was like, I know that guy.

I call and him for ages and I love everything that you stand for, everything

that you do with the Happy Startup School.

And actually we did meet way, way back, I can't remember, general, general Assembly.

Um, you did a whole workshop day for, um, entrepreneurs and stuff.

Um, but anyway, that was way back when.

Um, and I came over to you and I was like, Hey, hi, I'm Amanda, so great to meet you.

Like we were just chatting about, I can't remember, you know, when you just kind of

inflow and I just word bombed everywhere.

And your posts are, you are exactly how you show up in person.

Your words, your language, how you speak, your aura, your your energy was just a

true reflection of how you show up online.

Um, and that was, it was kind of like a five-ish minute convo, wasn't it?

But it was a beautiful moment of true, authentic connection, um, that.

Continued in WhatsApp.

Oh, on LinkedIn message and in WhatsApp.

And then Yeah, you suggested, shall we, shall we come here?

And, um, shall we do continue the conversation?

And I was like, uh, yeah, let's do it.

And then here we're here we're, um, I think that sums up how we met.

Cool.

I, I'll, I'll

share my version of the story and then it's up to the audience to, to

then vote who's got the better story.

Um, no, So, in terms of my experience with the story.

And I told this, actually, this is a bit of the story on LinkedIn.

'cause I went to this event not knowing, thinking I was gonna know anyone there

because, uh, I, I've met, uh, well, I, I interviewed Ann Law for her book

'cause I really, uh, and I'd only discovered her or really got into her

work over the past couple of months.

Lawrence, my business partner, had been following him, following her for a while,

being part of a Nest Lab's community.

Uh, but so I, I was stepping into a space that, um, I, I didn't really know.

I didn't think I was gonna know many people.

And then it was just lovely to meet yourself.

but anyway, it was, it was lovely to just meet, just meet people who I hadn't met.

In person, but online.

And then we got talking and then you said this whole thing about, oh yeah,

just, you know, turning up how you are.

I, I hadn't really thought about it that way.

And, and I think that whole, there's a cognitive speed bump for me about what

it means to perform online and do this.

And on while on, on a conceptual level, I kind of got it and I see people

talking about it, et cetera, et cetera.

Because I hadn't, I don't know, I've had a very, I haven't really engaged in a lot

of social media until the last year or so.

'cause I kind of, I dunno, I, I didn't see the value in it.

And digging a bit deeper, there is something about showing up

as myself and what that meant.

I'm really interested in this conversation.

But anyway, you start talking about five stories, you start

talking about authenticity.

Uh, I was really curious about that.

'cause I'm like wanting to engage more in a way that just feels less effortful.

You know, less, less strategic, but at the same time still wanting to be focused.

So I'm just, that's all up in my head at the moment.

And you said, oh, let's have a conversation around, let's take it.

Say, yeah, that's great.

And why don't we just think out loud, and this is kind of, this is my approach

to stuff, particularly within the Happy Startup School and the programs we run.

It's like, rather than like silo our thinking and it's like, not share

it, it's like how can we share stuff early to then engage other people in

the conversation and, and to learn and to, yeah, just do this out loud.

So this hence this.

So hence we're here.

yeah, I wanna learn, I wanna learn from you, Amanda.

I wanna share some of my thoughts and see how they land and

then we'll see where it goes.

I mean, I definitely vote your story better than mine.

I think I just scratched the surface as you were.

Um, so thank you for that.

And do you know what?

I love this actually because you've reminded me of like the

true reason why we're here.

We are here too.

Feel out loud, think out loud.

Think in collaboration with others, with all of these incredible people

here who are also feeling it too.

You feeling this?

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm assuming feeling the weight and pressure of showing up.

Online for ourselves, for our businesses, to put pieces of ourselves out there

that are authentic and true to us in our own language, in our own voice, but

actually feeling this massive weight and this massive pressure from the

algorithm, from all of the perfected content, from all of these staircase,

like, you know, space it down there and make sure that it's really simple.

Or add some emojis.

Just, just the right amount of emojis that sprinkle.

Like too many there.

Too many there.

No, but do you know what I mean?

All of this stuff that's just overwhelmed, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

This is too much.

This is too much for humans who are just multifaceted, messy beings who

are just trying to figure stuff out.

So actually this is a really gorgeous way, I think me and you coming here,

showing up today, like no agenda, no real plan apart from one word that

we're really curious about authenticity.

Oh

no, we are gonna sell right at the end of this, aren't we?

yeah.

Um, yeah, I mean authenticity, right?

It's such a, it's a word that I think you and I spoke about brief briefly.

I think it's just, I, I think we've, it's not that it's lost its meaning

has always been there because I think the meaning of authenticity

is something that we give to it.

I don't necessarily think that it's something, but I, but I think

the problem at the moment is that.

Everyone who's kind of shown up and, and banging this authentic

drum or, or creating this narrative around authenticity.

We we're kind of putting it on like it's an outfit and it's just like, no, but

this isn't my version of authenticity.

Authenticity is something that belongs to us.

It's un is isn't It's innate.

It's in us.

It's a feeling.

I actually think authenticity is about how something feels to us, um, in terms

of the content that we're creating, the, the clothes that we're wearing,

um, the language that we're using around something that we're trying to describe.

'cause of course, like everyone uses different words to form

them as a sentence that is gonna make meaning in some way for us.

Do you know what I mean?

But whether that means something to someone else who's

receiving it is different.

'cause they have their own context around something.

They have their own meaning of something and their own way of

communicating or wearing a certain outfit or something like that.

So I think it's very much authenticity is all about.

I think, and what I'm learning over and over and over as I do my absolute best to

try and practice being my absolute self.

And part of that practice is me doing this right now and just rambling on.

Um, is, is just, I, I think authenticity is the practice of reconnecting

back to ourselves when we're like, no, that doesn't feel like me.

Um, understanding, okay, why doesn't that feel like me?

And doing the work to understand, okay, well what is me then?

Um, and I think this is where our stories and our experiences can

really come into, um, play here as a, as a tool to help us understand.

Um, and then there's that remembering part.

So it's the, uh, it's the, it's the reconnect to understand, to remember

that actually no, this is me.

This is who I am and this is how I'm gonna show up and express myself in the world.

Whether that's through, through voice, language, writing, video, um,

visual, uh, whatever it is through our business, through our work, how that.

Ourself as, as a human, connects to the work that we do and how that all comes

together in a, in a, in a gorgeous way.

Um, that makes sense for us and our audience too.

I, I think it's all about that.

It all starts with how does this feel?

How does this feel for me?

And then once I've nailed that down, then how does this feel for my audience?

Does it connect with them too?

Because if it doesn't, there's something, there's a disconnect there.

But it also has to do that too, right?

For it to really ultimately feel authentic and for it to, to, to work

in this, in this world of authenticity.

what's landing for me is authenticity as a way of being rather than the strategy.

Um, and what I'm learning, just even through sort of like talking about

this, writing it and seeing the responses that I've been getting.

And, and also you shared a post today, which was interesting

and I'd like to touch on that.

but this idea that.

authenticity being a strategy for getting clients.

Mm-hmm.

To rise above the noise, we need to be authentic.

And even in that post, there's an element of like, yeah, be authentic

so you can rise above the noise.

So it's really much a channel, a strategy, a pathway to somewhere

as opposed to how you turn up.

Yeah.

Can I just offer a build on that?

And this is, I was in the tape written yesterday, just walking around,

reflecting on authenticity as you do, walking around looking at all the

different art, and I'm just like, whoa.

Like, first of all, what I noticed.

Because I think authenticity is the practice of noticing as well.

I think there's a, there's a true, because authenticity is a practice.

Brilliant.

Brown says that, um, that's her quote.

Um, but also what a practice of what, how do you break that down?

So I definitely think, um, observing and paying attention

is, is one of those things.

Oh, sorry.

I just bud me, um, I'm walking around the tape Britain and I'm

just looking at all of this arc getting sucked in and drawn in.

And it's interesting because I'm looking at someone, something, a piece of art, and

someone else next to me is looking at it, but we're observing it in a different way.

Parts of it are connecting with us in different ways.

I might see a face over there and they might see a dog over there

in, in the, in the brush strokes.

We're seeing things and we are feeling things in different

ways because we are different.

We, we, we are all humans.

Yes, but we are wire differently.

Our experiences are different.

We share things that are similar.

Yes, absolutely.

But is it exactly the same?

Fuck no.

And authenticity.

That's why I do truly believe to, to show up and be your most authentic self.

You have to have to, it's absolutely, um, vital that you are connected to your

stories, and then you can show up and then you can start to draw connections

between, okay, why does that pull me in?

Why, why does this feel like purposeful to me?

Why am I feeling cool to go and do this work and, and, and switch

things up in my work right now?

Why do I feel like I'm not enjoying what I'm doing anymore?

What does that mean?

All these feelings, all these emotions, the signals or little,

little signs of, okay, actually you are getting closer to yourself.

David Wyatt says it, and it's gorgeous.

Conversation with Tim Ferris.

I'll share the link.

Um, whoever wants to hear it.

David Weer is a brilliant poet.

Um, definitely recommend his poet poem.

Everything is waiting for you.

Oh my gosh.

It just rings your heart like a bell.

What rings mine?

Um, but he basically says, we're always five steps behind

the person we're becoming.

And I'm just like, wow.

We are, we're always trying to reach that next version of ourselves because

we are constantly, every second, every minute of the day, we are evolving

and the way we are being told.

Authenticity, use authenticity as a strategy for your content, or

you are co it's always evolving.

It's you, you are constantly changing actually the practice of paying

attention to what feels good and what feels real and what, what feels true

in this moment with your content, with your work, whatever it is, with,

you're just hanging out with your, your partners, your friends or whatever it is.

So, so important to pay attention to those fields.

Um, pay and, and notice what is coming up for you in these moments, but also.

Paying attention to how you are, you are showing up online.

And whether that actually feels true and real for you in that moment.

Because we are moving, meaning is a moving thing.

Authenticity is connected to what means something to us and what

means something to our audiences.

And we have to keep realigning with how we show up to make

sure that we are authentic.

'cause it's kind of like that spectrum of, you know, over here we're,

this is, this is who we are, really are, and this is how we show up.

When that's like that, you know, if, if it's not aligned, it's like who

we, who we are is, is, is like here and how we're showing up is here.

Like we have to bring it here and there's work to do there.

There's the work of being really present in, in our story and in our, in, in, in

ourselves, and doing that inner work.

You know, journaling, for example, is something that I do.

I, you know, have questions that, that I actually pose to myself or

I, or I listen and learn from other poets, my books or things like that.

And I just join around questions to, to understand, try and understand

myself better and whether things are, are true and real for me

and right for me in the moment.

And then it's like, okay, cool.

Actually what I've created or I'm doing right now within my work is feeling good

and right for me right now, which means I could show up as my most authentic self.

So what I'm taking from that, there's an element of this, which I'm, I'm

very curious about and I'm very drawn to is there's a deeper work

aspect to this and where I gravitate to these, these tools and these

frameworks for more self knowledge.

Mm. Because when you talk to how does it feel?

Was it like I, if, if anyone's out there like me for a long

while, I was disconnected from understanding what that meant to feel.

It was like, cognitively, how can I make this viral?

Or whatever it is when it came to social media, or how can I get someone to like

me so they don't sort of like reject me?

But then when it's like, okay, there's a, an aspect of this which

is internally like, I like something and I can un and because, and this

is where theory of the story is.

Why do I like it?

So there's the, there's the actual experience of, I like this.

And there's that whole gut instinct whether you, you create things from a gut

instinct where you create art, whether you create, post whatever it is, there's

creating something from a gut instinct and you just dunno how that happens.

And then there's actually knowing where that comes from, what,

what's that saying about me?

What's that?

You know, I see that pi of the picture and I look at that bit because I know I

have this story around dogs, or I know I have this affinity to that thing.

And having that self-inquiry, self knowledge.

I think is the deeper work, the harder work, the less uh,

welcome work that takes longer.

It's a lifetime's work that I think is core to what you're saying in

terms of understanding our stories.

And there's someone I think on the call called Kieran Morris.

He works with the Enneagram, which is a fascinating tool for self

knowledge and understanding why we behave and act in a certain ways.

'cause a bit of this that I'm really curious about, and we can talk about

tactics and strategies in a minute, but this aspect of what a visceral

feeling that comes up when either we try to post and we don't, or we post

and no one actually replies or we post or someone's and someone says

something contrary to what we think.

And that, how that stops that sense of being able to turn up in whichever

way we want, which for me is the being authentic aspect of this

you mentioned earlier, and I'm saying this 'cause I have so been there like

last year went to, um, and I think you were there as well, um, the DO lectures

event, the Microblogging Systems event.

Um, and then there was this, uh, 30 day challenge to post every day.

And at that point my baby was only like three, four months old and I'm

like trying to find 10 minutes a day to write without her wanting my boob or I

dunno what, whatever, you know, just, I'm a new mom, I'm covered in puke.

I feel like crap and my brain is just mush.

Yeah.

I really struggled and I just felt like a failure 'cause I didn't keep up

with the, the challenge that was set, but hey, that's, that was my shit.

Um, anyway, why am I sharing that?

Because.

I went down this whole like rabbit hole of creating and obsessing over it.

It was taking me four hours to create a freaking post for LinkedIn, and then

I just overthink it, get stuck in my head, and then I'd post it and it'd get

only a couple of likes, and then I'd feel like something's wrong with me.

Like, no one likes me.

No one, no one, no one cares.

Like everyone's judging, like all of this stuff.

And I was just getting so stuck in my head about it and then I

was like, no, no, I can't do this.

This is not good for my health.

So not good for my health.

And it's also taken my energy and my, and my, my, my good.

Like, you know, my, my good vibes away from my baby.

Like I can't do that.

So I stopped, took it out three months away from, from, from social

media and did a lot of writing.

Like writing.

That wasn't for external contribution.

It was just for me, what I learned was when we create for ourselves

and it doesn't become an obligation, the joy comes back when we're

creating and sharing things.

For the purpose of more reach, more likes, more follows, more shares

growth, that line that goes up like that, we suck the joy out of it.

We literally suck the joy out of it.

We suffocate our souls and it is killing creativity, killing it in

a creative recession because of it.

Like honestly, there is data to prove it.

Um, actually heads up, I've got a piece going out on sub sex next

week, so I would love your, your thoughts and feels on that one.

Um, and there was stuff that I learned last year that has all gone into that.

And I think, I think the thing that we need to do is so, so simple.

We have to like ourselves, we have to like our work.

We have to enjoy it.

Fuck everyone else.

Honestly, truly, Um, we have to like ourselves, we have to enjoy the

work for it to go out there because when that happens, we don't care

what, we don't need the validation.

We don't need people to say, Hey, this is good because we know it's good.

We know it's an inner knowing.

And I think that's the work.

And I think that is what, when we get into the strategy and the five

stories and all that kinda stuff, that's what that is going to do.

It's gonna help you be present in your own story, understand not what

your bloody unique selling point is.

None of that bullshit.

No.

What your unique point of view is, what your unique point of view, which

is connected back to the stories.

'cause the stories give the meaning.

Not just for you, but for your audience too, and how that connects and how that

connects you all together under this.

And, and it's about not fast growth, it's about slow, intentional,

up close, intimate growth.

I feel like a lot of these bots and things, and we should, we just before,

like 15, 20 minutes before the call, uh, uh, uh, shared friend of ours, mark Leus,

share the post with both of us, right?

There's stats about impersonal personal branding and, and how

we're in the era of impersonal, um, personal, um, impersonal branding.

Sorry, not impersonal, personal branding.

That doesn't make sense.

And it's true.

It is so true.

Like everyone looks and sounds the same.

No one's got a way of like, everyone's, the voice is just all like this.

It's just a, mm.

Just met everywhere.

It's so boring.

It's so exhausting.

Like, hello, like W we need to, we need to bring it back.

We need to bring it back to us, to ourselves so we can shop

for ourselves and each other.

That's what we have to do.

And the only way we can do that is when we step away from the bullshit

and can reconnect with who we are, what is unique to us based on our

own personal lived experiences.

And then once we feel connected and once we feel that, oh yeah, this is,

this is, this is me, this is great.

This is exactly what I bring.

This is exactly my take on things.

This is my unique point of view because I have experiences and

stories that I can back it up with.

That's when we go back out there.

That's what I believe, because I've done it and I've tried it, and now I don't

give a shit if I only get four nights because I know that what I post is great.

I know, I know it's good stuff.

I know it's got substance.

I know it's got depth because I have lived it and that's it.

What have you lived?

You know, show up with your truth.

And it sounds so cliche, and it sounds so, oh my gosh.

Yeah.

But how you do that, like reconnecting with your story to go back on a

journey back in like an expedition through yourself and through your life.

And I'm really hoping that that's what I've been creating and, and

building over the last six years of this work with five stories and what

I can now hopefully, hopefully offer

I, I am on board with everything you said as an inner journey, as a journey of

connecting to, to the work you love to do.

Mm-hmm.

From my experience of running the Happy Startup School coaching entrepreneurs

into this transition of, of tuning into what is it I really want, what I really

love, what success means to me, and then how do I turn that into a business?

there are are steps to that, that I think you personally can overcome because

you have the skills of storytelling.

This has been your profession for companies and now for people

to be able to communicate.

For those who haven't got that skill.

But just because you are sharing your authentic real story does not mean

people are gonna buy anything from you.

Because there's the danger is a spray and pray of like, this is me,

this is me, this is my work, this is what I do, this is me, this is me,

this is my work, this is what I do.

Please like me.

Please buy from me.

Not even sometimes, not even, please buy from me.

It's just, please like me.

I'm not gonna ask you to buy from me.

'cause I might get rejected.

So I'm just gonna just talk about stuff and then I'm gonna talk about

stuff and no one's gonna respond.

And then I'm gonna feel shit and then I'm go, Hmm

mm-hmm.

And so there is an element, and this is where I'm fascinated by it.

'cause there is a business element of this.

There is an element of like, there is you and what you love and there's

what you do and how it helps people.

And then it's who is it helping?

And if we're unclear about who we're helping, then what we say will also,

I feel be a bit unclear because you're trying to, well, there's either

very specific messages for yourself saying, I know this work is amazing

and this is great, you've gotta do it.

Or it's just like a generic message that I could work with anyone who

wants to get clarity or be more themselves or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm.

And I was

talking to someone the other day, the thing about that, while it's like

our catchall, there's not a lot of safety in it because as a customer

it's like, but how do you know me?

And, and okay, there is a chance that, okay, your story I connect

to and I really get that.

It's like the power of that sense of shared values, shared

vision, even similar journey.

I think that's so impactful.

But if that is communicated in a way that doesn't take people on the journey,

that doesn't have the structure that you and rigor that you will employ.

Because you know how comms work and how communications work and you know that

niching and focus and being clear about who you're serving and the challenges

that they're facing and the problems they're doing and how to talk about that.

And, there are very, there are free platforms out there mm-hmm.

That allow us to reach many, many people, but they have their own rules.

So we can rail against those rules.

Uh, because you can see here, everyone is just trying to do the same thing

because the platform, the algorithm, the channel asks you to do these things

in order to get your content seen.

But if you don't appreciate that and you rail against it, you are

gonna have to find another way to reach the people you want.

And my final point is like, if you are uniquely bringing something

that's very you, then it might be that the other people who are like

you, who, who want to see your stuff, they won't see you straight away.

You'll either have to hunt for them or work with these platforms

to be visible on them, which may mean following some tactics and

strategies that don't feel authentic.

But at the same time, if you don't, you won't be seen.

you're right, we are so, we are slaves to the algorithm we are creating.

These platforms have us, this is how my nan would say it in her

language, by the short and curies.

You know, they, they, they really, they really, really have.

And it sucks.

It sucks it, I'm gonna say it again.

It is a creativity killer.

It's a soul.

Sucker.

Like it's, it's, it's not cool.

So we do need to do something different.

We need, we need to do, we need to take back our, we need to take back our power

because we do have, we do have power to do that, and we do have choices.

So here, here are a few things that I'm experimenting with.

Taking, drawing some, you know, the language from, and Laura and her

incredible book, tiny Experiments on places like Substack, for example.

Patreon.

Where can we, like, where can we build community that we, that is not dictated

by an algorithm that is actually truly created through creativity through.

Shared stories, shared through shared beliefs and values and, and through

a, a rallying cry that gets everybody hype and pumped and excited about

where we're going, AKA vision, that the change we wanna see in the world

through our writing, through our conversations like this, through sharing,

sharing, sharing questions and, and, and sitting with these questions and

these thoughts and ideas and, and just, just the experimental mindset, like

where can we, where can we hang out?

Uh, because I think that's what it's about.

I don't think it's about, you know, people who have.

20,000, 50,000, a hundred thousand followers.

These people who you are seeing that are getting crazy amounts of

engagement on their posts and all of these comments, it's all bullshit.

It's all bullshit because it's all part of pods and things like that.

And I went through a phase of feeling really crap about it.

Like, why this?

This content isn't even good.

It's so basic.

It's so meh.

In fact, I saw Zach saying content a few weeks ago, and someone's just

repurposed the bloody thing and it's got 72,000, like, what the fuck is going on?

We can't control that.

That's gonna happen, man.

That's gonna happen.

You just gotta accept that that is happening, that this is created.

Through ai, through bots, through, through just these silly pods of people

who actually don't really care about what people, what each other are saying.

They don't really connect with their, none of the comments are even authentic

because they're just doing it because they're doing it for their own benefit.

'cause the more you comment on posts, apparently it's 32 comments

you've got to put in a day.

32 got, by the way, you build that into, into our already busy time schedules.

You've gotta post on 32 people's posts a day to get the algorithm

say, oh hey, you are active on here.

I'm gonna reward you with more people seeing your post.

No, no, thank you.

We've got lives to live.

We've got real lives to live.

So you, there's people that are committed to that way of, of, of building and

growing and, and, and, and being visible.

And there's people like us, I think, who are like, no,

I'm not gonna do it that way.

'cause actually what I care about more is myself, my creativity and

my audience also deserves better.

We all deserve better.

We deserve more substance, more depth, more meaning.

And I'm gonna go all in on that.

And I think that's a bloody good thing.

And I honestly, truly, deeply believe I've got a thing that I'm writing

about and a moment that I've been writing about for a really long time.

'cause hello babies.

Um, it's called the meaning making era.

We're moving into the meaning making era.

It's going from content creators who are burnt out, not just the burnout that

we see everywhere online at the moment.

Like, you know, which I, I know all of us have experienced in some way,

big or small, is this burnout feeling of like your, your brain just feeling

foggy and overwhelmed and you're struggling to breathe sometimes

and is everything's just too much.

And you, you feel like you just wanna lie on the cold floor and

just like naked and leave me alone.

And, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

You just need to switch off.

But I'm also talking about the mean, uh, a burnout that no one talks about.

It's called meaning burnout.

It's that burnout when you have this big fucking question, who am I?

Who am I, what am I doing?

Why am I here?

No one talks about that.

And that's meaning, that's, that's the burnout that I wanna talk about more.

And I believe that we are about to move into a new era.

We have to, we have to, like our humanity with AI came coming into

the mix now more and more and more.

And trust me, I went to an AI event yesterday and shit is getting real.

We have to own our humanity and we have, and then creativity

is what it means to be human.

So we have to bring that back and, and own it and, and, and,

and come back to ourselves.

so I liked that you touched on this idea of, uh, meaning.

Yeah.

Um, because I'm assuming meaning means something specific to you.

and I've, I learned about, uh, a book called The Map of Meaning and, uh.

Key thing that I learned from that was a, uh, when we think about meaning, it

can sometimes feel like this massive, huge, horrible thing that is just,

just hard to get our heads around.

and then the other thing is that we all have essentially different ways

to, explain what meaning is to us.

And so firstly, I'd like to just, when you talk about meaning, yeah.

What, what, what is it you are coming, where are you coming from?

Meaning is moving.

Meaning is always moving because we're always moving and me what I'm learning.

And by the way, everyone, I am no scientist or neuroscience

person or anything like that.

I'm just someone who's just learning as I go and learning as I speak as well.

Um, but what I am learning about meaning is that meaning is, um, it

does your right, it means something us on a really deep, um, visceral

personal level, but meaning, true meaning can only really come about

when you have context around something.

Stuff we're seeing.

Sorry about that.

Um, we're seeing online in terms of, let's talk about in the, in, in the context

of, of what context is shown up online.

A lot of the stuff you're seeing is very surface level thoughts, opinions

that isn't really backed up by a story.

For example, an experience and lived experience.

The meaning comes from the, the stories.

Stories are a way of meaning making.

'cause meaning can only come from meaning is about understanding.

Meaning is something that happens when, oh, okay, that means something to me.

It's when I, it's imagine like you have a cup and, and your cup is empty.

Like that's like, that's meaningless.

There's nothing in it.

There's no substance, there's no context, there's no depth

to it, there's nothing in it.

But when you start pouring something in, oh, that's got meaning now 'cause

oh, it's vimto and I really like Vimto.

And actually it takes me back to when I was on holiday in

Tan from my nan and Grand.

He's gimme Vimto all the time.

You know, I mean that's just a, might be a silly example, but I'm just trying

to really, um, simplify it, meaning moving, which means, um, it's constantly,

um, uh, moving as we move and, and as we change and as we evolve as humans.

Um, but meaning can always be found in stories that make us who we are

in the stories that have created our.

Unique selves.

And when we start to understand those stories and unpack them, and

with a coach, hi, you then start to put out the ones that really mean

something to you in this moment.

'cause there's gonna be you, you got, we got shit loads of stories, man.

So many stories and many that we have forgotten when we go back and we gone

on personal expedition through those stories and we start to reconnect with

them and then understand, oh Carlos, you even shared something today about

a story from, from, from, from when you were a boy and, and, and the

games that, the, what's it called?

What did you do?

Duns and Dragons.

Duns and Dragons.

Yeah.

And then you, you created the, the, the actual games instead of actually

playing, um, how I guess everyone else plays and that that's me.

And then you connect that back to why you do the work you do today.

That's meaning, you know, because you remembered that story and you've started

to kind of be present in it again.

Remember it.

Imagine it and feel yourself in that story, you've then connected it back to,

oh, that makes so much sense to who I am and why I care about doing the work

that I do today and why I'm doing it.

Meaning is when we start to draw connections for ourselves for each other,

um, that for me is what meaning is.

Um, David Wyatt again?

No, not David Wyatt.

This actually, this is a really great book.

this guy here and I can't pronounce his name.

I'm not even Dacher.

anyway.

Um, meaning, um, is or that feeling of awe, that feeling of wonder, that

feeling of, oh my gosh, you know?

'cause when you do start to draw connections and thing, things

start to mean something to you.

It's this, you feel this and this is something that humans can only feel and

this is what meaning is all about for me.

This,

so what I took from that, is we derive meaning from the stories that we tell

about our lives and about ourselves.

And that is something that we can find, well, that is something that we can mine,

I'm gonna say, because it does take, uh, looking back and, and, and collecting,

collecting the memories, and then weaving them together into something that, that

makes sense, And so we are able to make sense of that journey that got us here.

We can then understand why we want to bring other people into our lives.

And for a big part of this as well is, I guess there's a more, a, a clearer

self-awareness if this storytelling, and this is maybe why you want to help people

if that storytelling process is done well.

And when I say done well, it isn't just stories to feed our ego, it's stories

to actually to deconstruct that ego.

you know, ego, it's really, I've always been trying to really

understand what is ego man?

Why does it keep showing up?

It is an ego really is when it's like, no, it's mine.

No, that's mine.

It's, it's, it's, it belongs to me.

You know?

It's like, it's something that is, uh, it's an ownership or something

that we're just, you know, attached to our identity, but actually beautiful,

quiet, I can't remember his name.

Um, ego is the resistance of the present moment.

resistance.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a different view on that.

I was listening to a podcast today exactly on this idea that we can talk about ego

and conflate it with the idea of being egotistic, which is just all about me.

But the thing that I appreciate from this podcast was we all have an ego.

Our ego is our identity.

It is the story that we tell of ourselves.

Or the story we tell of who we want to be, who we want to turn up as.

And the process that you are talking about, as I believe, is actually

testing whether is that ego really true?

Yeah.

And I guess it comes down to, there's a, what's it called?

Mortal Diamond, I think the book is called, and also Gary Zoff,

yeah, you've got your true self and your false self, I think it is.

And I think your ego is all connected to your false self.

It's like this is, like, you say who I, who I want to be seen as.

This is all of the masks and all of the, all of the, and I'd say

the storytelling, you know, the conscious storytelling is still creating an ego.

of course, like of course, because also stories we can bend and shape

stories to make them work for us, right?

Like if we say, you and I have experienced something, which, which we

did, we met last week at Amor event.

I told a story.

You told a story.

I missed out loads of parts of the story.

But you covered that part.

You know, we are gonna, there's always of course, but I think what it comes down

to really, when it comes down to, you know, in this, in this, uh, um, concept

of, of meaning, it's about, um, really understanding what parts of our story

in this very moment as this version of our presence sounds, what parts of

our stories mean something to us very profoundly in this moment, but also,

means that we can show up as our most authentic selves, but also means that

we've also done the work to understand how this story connects to our audience too.

Because that's the whole point.

It's all good if we're talking again in the context of showing up

online and being more authentic.

Are more authentic sounds.

We need to understand what parts of our story.

Yes, it means something to us, but actually brings us

closer to our audiences.

Mm-hmm.

So we can stronger, more deeper and meaningful connections with them and grow

in a more conscious, sustainable way.

grow, grow our businesses.

Grow, grow our, you know, grow our communities and things like that.

And I think meaning is.

Me meaning finding our way back to meaning when we feel like we've lost it because

we've been so, um, so overwhelmed or so, or told to, to be someone that we're not,

or, or, or told to shop in a way that doesn't work for us or feel good for us.

Um, connecting back to our stories is, is where, is where we really

unpack and find that meaning.

But it does take time and that's the thing.

I think the other problem is that we're seeing is that everything

is so quick, fast, go, go, go.

We're still living in this sort of hustle culture, this re fast break things.

Even though there's lots of peoples who are actually doing the showing up online

every day for, you know, they're, they're subscribed to this way of, um, of, of,

of playing to the algorithm pleasing it.

They're, they're talking about the hustle culture, but then they're

in it, like they're completely going what they're saying because

actually they're fucking in it.

What, what we're saying here is take this slower, get, get, go slower.

Get get up close and personal with yourself.

So, so.

You can get closer and more intimate with your audience because that

is what the future is all about.

Now, for us to really take hold and take control of the shit show that's

happening in the online world and how we can really serve ourselves, serve

our creativity, serve our souls, and also do the same for rather for others.

'cause when we are connected to ourselves and when we really truly know

and understand ourselves, we also give permission for others to do the same.

We have to stop being disembodied.

We have to stop doing that because it's not doing any good for

ourselves and, and our audiences.

Because the more we're showing up in a disembodied way, in a way that is

just surface level or actually doesn't hold a lot of meaning because we

haven't done the work, we're just doing it because we want it to go viral.

The more we keep doing that, the more we're gonna keep saying to

everybody, Hey, you gotta do this too.

Otherwise, you weren't playing the game.

And hey man, you're not gonna, you're not gonna win.

Fuck that.

No, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta come back to ourselves and we gotta do the work.

And it starts with the story.

Our stories,

and there's a, a part of this for me is To do this with compassion because some of

these stories, I think if you do this work well and deeply can feel quite painful.

And I, I feel that the, the toxic authenticity that I'm gonna

call that happens online mm-hmm.

Is because of the hustle that harms because there's no healing

that's been taking place.

These people haven't spent the time really owning the stories and also probably

being triggered by hidden stories that makes them wanna push, makes them, wants

to hustle, makes them want to go faster.

And then that, as, as I'm hearing from you, then creates an

environment where everyone else thinks that they need to hustle.

disembodied, I think that's, that's, that's the word.

They're like empty shelves.

They're just out there doing it and like zombies, you know, just showing hungry

ghosts is the phrase that I heard someone Yeah,

that, yeah.

I like that.

Talks about these us us running around trying to fill an empty shell.

Yeah.

It's so interesting, so a few, I think it was the 2021 or 2022,

just when they started opening up, um, the airports again.

Um, the pandemic.

And I went on a Eat, pray, find myself trip to Portugal.

I was going through a very tough time, a breakup.

I found a breakup with, um, one of my previous co-founders and the agency,

branding agency that we co-founded.

And Um, it just wasn't working for me anymore.

It wasn't serving my soul.

I didn't feel we, we weren't on the same page with where

we might take the business.

So anyway, we separated.

I went to, um, Portugal for 18 days.

Um, and I remember going on a trip, I can't remember what part Portugal is,

but it was a gorgeous, and it'll come to me in a minute, so I'm just gonna

keep going and maybe it'll come back.

Um, the actual place it was, but it was just beautiful.

Um, place that you could visit.

And it was like this old kind of gardens and like these, these swirling

stairs and it was like a manna house and all of it was just, it was just

like acres and acres of like hidden waterfalls and little knocks and

crannies and all this kinda stuff.

Anyway, there was these statues.

I remember the tour guy took us up to these statues, like these two dragons,

and they were going off over there having a, and I was just on, and everyone was

in the couples and things like that.

Me and my husband were going through a really rocky patch at

the time as well, so I was, I was solo traveling solo, loving it.

Um, and they were going off over here, like having going, looking at the

next statue or waterfall, whatever.

And I'm just looking at these dragons and I'm just walking around and they're

holding this big shell and I'm like, oh, this is a really cool shell.

But inside the shell, massive shell.

I see a baby shell, a little baby shell.

There's a baby shell in.

Now I wonder how many people see that baby shell.

And I think that's what we're searching for when we're looking for

meaning, when we're looking for our actual truest, most authentic selves.

I think we're looking for the baby shells inside the picture shell.

I'm fascinated by that in terms of the, this hunts, this adventure, this

journey of just journey inwards, I think is what you are alluding to.

Um, and to do that slowly and to do that methodically, I'm assuming to do

that in a way that actually builds, um.

And, and then from that place of finding these shells, stringing them together,

wearing them around our neck, um, then turning up as that person rather than

trying to match someone else's version of what it means to be authentic online.

Exactly.

That is about, it's about taking back the story around

authenticity and making it our own.

Mm-hmm.

We have to, the authenticity story is ours to write, we have to write it more sense.

So let's do that.

And that's for me, maybe kind of core to this dilemma in terms of what it means,

you know, what it means to be authentic, And why we struggle with being authentic.

Um, and this, I know this feeling, the wanting to hide, needing to hide, but

then because of that, just losing that fire, that energy, that passion, um,

or we're just trying to be someone who we're not, uh, to

get the noise and the praise.

Uh, and then we just lose sight of truth.

Hiding will hurt you more than it'll hurt anyone else.

It'll hurt you.

And this is, this is all about, I, I think when I think about the way we look

at work, this inside out approach is like, if we can care more for ourselves,

then we'll be able to care for others.

And, and it talks to better, and it talks to what you're saying about this, if we

can all be part of this, let's call it a movement, this approach, this philosophy

that, let's take it slow, let's be more, not stop being a slave to the platforms,

gather in places where we can really

Yeah.

And that, and what that means technically, what that means strategically.

Maybe that's for another conversation.

But the core of this, um, is finding, and I, my belief is finding places where

we can at least turn up as ourselves or at least turn up trying to be ourselves.

And through that process of conversation with others who

won't judge us, then discovering who that person might really be.

I, I think as well, I learn more about myself when I hear someone else's story.

'cause sometimes we just can't find the language or put the language

to it because it's so in us, it's so trapped in us and we've never

really spoken it out loud before.

And I think that when we, when the really brave ones, the brave ones who

have gone through very trauma and, you know, we've all gone through trauma in

some way and we've all gone through some really hard and messy, difficult times.

Even now we're going through it now, you know what I mean?

And some, a lot of stuff we're living it so it feels too tender

and too raw to share right now.

But at some point, you know, when we, when we do feel, um, feel

ready to share and actually go out there and put something out there

because we believe that it's gonna.

Support and help someone through it in some way.

You know, that's about, you know, giving something, sharing in intentionally

to actually support someone else who might be experiencing it, that pain or

struggle too, so they don't feel alone.

I think we learn about each other through each other's stories because.

That's where the meaning lies.

Because sometimes we don't know the right, the words to put to it.

We don't know the emotions to put to it because a lot of the time the emotions

we're feeling we can't even communicate because they just feel so visceral.

And so in our bone marrow, like we're just like, oh, oh.

So we actually, when we hear someone else tell their story and put language

around it, we're just like, oh my gosh.

You know?

Oh my gosh, yes.

Same.

That is the world that I wanna be a part of the world where more of us are brave

enough to show up and share our, our stories, um, without the fear of judgment

because we just know, 'cause actually the meaning of actually putting it out

there and, and, and knowing in our hearts that actually it's gonna do more good by

beating out there than stuck inside us.

That matters more than a fucking algorithm and lights that matters

more than bullshit comments from bots.

That matters more.

And I think that's where I wanna be.

Actually, I know that's where I wanna be and I really hope

that I'm not the only one.

I have a big feeling of,

uh, I I I, I know of a festival in September where there's load of people

like that, who, who wanna be there.

Yeah.

I wanna,

uh, what you're talking to that, um, having a space to be able to

at least start talking a similar language around meaning and stories.

And I just wanted to share this kind of, this model that I found really

helpful But basically it's a way of just identifying where you are at on this,

let's call it this, four quadrants, the vertical axis, or in this case the

horizontal axis is about being and doing and the other ones itself and others.

And so the quadrant.

Simply put is where do you, you know, and the question around these quadrants

is where do you feel yourself at the moment in the sense of meaning?

Are you in the space of being with self or are you in the space of doing for others?

And I think a lot of us can find ourselves caught in the doing for

other space, performing, working, serving, and forgetting about

being with others, doing for self.

And ultimately, which I think what you are talking about here is being with self,

really spending that time, understanding the stories, doing that self-inquiry

so that then when you are doing for others, it comes from a place of grounded

authority as opposed to people pleasing.

Uh, and just basically, uh, um, referencing yourself based on other

people's definitions of success.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's just.

Being present in your own and just, and and, and knowing it.

Knowing it so intently

and having spaces where you can explore that together.

Not all necessarily on your own.

Yeah, I think it's definitely something, and this is why I do what I do now.

This is why I'm a story coach now.

Moved from this sort of agency owner working with different brands in

the startup tech scene and you know, who are all building, making meaning

and blah, blah, blah, making change.

I'm like, oh, that's all bullshit.

I wanna, you know, work with people actually.

Believe that and who are actually doing meaningful work.

And I wanna help them do that without losing themselves.

And this is where my five stories comes in.

And that is the methodology that I've now evolved to work for creators, for

founders, for entrepreneurs who are out there trying to do meaningful work, who

are feeling this horrible, horrible weight from the pressures of having to perform.

And I actually just wanna do, do it their own way and figure out what

that looks like, figure out what that incredible, powerful, meaningful story

is for themselves, for their audiences so they can show up and do work without,

you know, forgetting actually who they truly are doing work that matters.

Um, and that's what,

and so for people who are, um, who might not know you and are really

curious about your work, where would you wanna point them to?

Um, so two places.

Uh, so it's, it's an old site, but you can check it out.

You see five stories on there.

So it's, uh, tell five stories.

Number five, not written.

Five, I say, um, tell five stories do com.

Um, and there's a web, um, where if you find me on LinkedIn, there's

a, um, uh, drop me a message 'cause I've got some spaces,

Uh, for those of you who are interested in like more of these stories then,

or particularly about showing up online, showing up in the world

authentically, then check out, um, net Tomorrow at midday, we're doing a

Friday fireside, uh, with Kevin Smith.

Uh, I'll put a link in the, in the chat as well.

We'll be continue talking about what it means to show up.

Authentically as well as being of service and helping others.

So.

Excellent.

Thank you very much, Amanda.

Uh, final thoughts before you?

What would you like?

What's, what are you coming away with?

just that it's up to us.

It's up to us.

I think in terms in summary, I think it's up to us to choose it.

And the more we don't choose it, the more like choose, the more we don't choose

it for ourselves, the more, um, we're doing for ourselves and each other.

Um, so we have to make the decision.

Do we want to.

Show up and be seen for who we truly are, or do we wanna show up and

be seen to please everybody else?

I, I am, what I'm leaving with is just the reinforcement of the work

that Lawrence and I are doing.

Realizing how being at spaces like Summer camp or Happy startup summer camp

or Altitude is an opportunity to, to share our stories with others in a space

that feels connecting and through that process, you know, being able to feel

more into what it means to be authentic.

Mm-hmm.

So thank you for reminding me of that.

Um, can I just leave one question that I sent you earlier, Carlos, which I

think everybody, this is a question I'm journaling at the moment and I heard

it from poet that I mentioned earlier.

David Wyatt, and please do check out his poem.

Everything is waiting for you.

It's gorgeous.

So this is the question, What would you be, if you failed being yourself, Oh,

I beat Elon Musk.

Oh, really?

I would be Apex Predator Alpha money focused.

Shit on every one person.

Yeah.

Oh gosh.

Isn't that a horrible, horrible visual.

Oh, right.

On that note, um, thank you everyone for joining us.

Yeah.

If you, if maybe, uh, answer that question on LinkedIn and,

and tag Amanda in and uh, yeah.

Hashtag authenticity dilemma and we can just continue this

conversation asynchronously online and fuck the algorithm.