The design industry can be exciting to explore, but it's not always easy to break into. If you're looking to shift careers and work in interior design, Shaun and Rebecca have some valuable advice for you. They talk about the skills from your previous job that will add value to your design career, the challenges career-shifters face when switching into the design industry, and share tips that will help you break into the new field.

In this episode, Rebecca and Shaun discuss:

• The challenges of switching careers in interior design
• Tips and strategies for someone transitioning from another career into interior design 
• Transferable skills someone can bring from another career that offers value in interior design
• Challenges entrepreneurs face when switching industries
• The need for entrepreneurs to set aside their ego to have a successful learning experience when switching industries
• Challenges designers face in taking on inexperienced interns or employees
• How can career changers demonstrate value beyond just design skills when pursuing opportunities in interior design
• The challenges of transitioning from DIY home projects to working professionally in the design industry
• What designers look for when it comes to hiring and training new employees
• What does it take to find the right fit when switching to a new industry like interior design

Our links:

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Rebecca’s Instagram 

Shaun’s Instagram

For more information - Check out the website

Become a “Loyal Hottie” - Support us on Patreon

Design Resources - Check out our shop

Mentioned in this episode:

Moe's Home Collection

Moe's just released their new Tailored & Timeless Collection. Create an accout at https://moeshomecollection.com/hydc

EP120 Hot Young Designers: Welcome to

the Hot Young Designers Club podcast.

2

I'm Rebecca Plum, your big sister.

3

And I'm Sean Serha, your GBF.

4

We're not that hot or that young.

5

But we believe it's a state of

mind that helps us build adaptable

6

and profitable businesses.

7

We rely on the support of our design

besties to get through each day.

8

So let's explore the emotional,

practical, and humorous sides

9

of being interior designers.

10

Welcome to the club.

11

Hey, Sean.

12

What's up, Rebecca?

13

It is a pretty good day so far.

14

I mean, I woke up, I'm here.

15

I'm going to come across your head.

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Live in the dream.

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We won't say when we're recording

this, but we did record where we did

18

have a hottie hangout to this morning

before we were before right now,

19

which we do on Fridays once a month.

20

And I don't know, anytime we have

them, I just feel like it's like a

21

good way to weekend and, and the week.

22

I know it feels like a little

download session with each other.

23

It has the feeling of like, if you were

to be able to create like a monthly

24

coffee session with industry friends

that you can kind of talk a little shit.

25

Gossip a little bit.

26

Yeah.

27

Like get different like apps that we like.

28

We always exchange

different ideas like that.

29

And it's like that.

30

I don't know much about this, but like

I saw this kind of stuff that you're

31

like, I don't want to spend forever.

32

Like, I'm not going to make a public call

out for this somewhere, but I do want

33

to just like ask a few people, have they

heard about this stuff or like, do they

34

know anything about a certain company?

35

Like just feel, you know, put

the feelers out a little bit.

36

Yes.

37

And our friend Claire recently in

one of our Marco Polos was talking

38

about how on some of the larger.

39

Like Facebook groups, there's not a

real sense of community necessarily.

40

People are very helpful on

those, but sometimes they

41

don't always feel super safe.

42

I've personally gotten into issues.

43

With people that like are kind of cuckoo

and you just feel like you don't want to

44

be vulnerable on there because you don't,

I don't know, not there to get hassled,

45

like different parts of our journey.

46

And like the whole, I just don't respond

to the, like the, I'm calling it like

47

naggy mom type of behavior sometimes

where you're just like, hold on girl.

48

Like you don't know me, you

don't know my lived experiences.

49

You don't know, you don't even know

how long I've been in business.

50

You don't know what I've done, but

you're already jumping right to like.

51

You should be doing this instead type

of behavior, which is just like, I'm

52

not in this Facebook group for you

to like be providing me coaching.

53

I'm you spell design with a Z.

54

Not her, but yes, but yeah, like we talk

about that, but we also talk about other

55

like on topic conversations about solving

problems in our businesses and process.

56

And like.

57

Sometimes looking for you to like, yeah,

but like looking for you to be pushed.

58

Like sometimes I want to be pushed into

the, I think this is the way you could try

59

something that would actually help you.

60

And I'm here to tell you it

actually works or it does help.

61

So I like when it's a true other person

that I known and the loyal hotties,

62

we've now kind of developed that

over the last year where it's like.

63

I trust these designers so much now

because we spend so much time talking

64

with each other and messaging each

other questions and like there's

65

really like a sense that there is no

judgment when we're bringing up a topic

66

or something we're struggling with.

67

And if there was an asshole that made

their way in, like we would put a stop

68

to that and that has not happened.

69

No.

70

So yeah, it's.

71

It's been awesome.

72

So anyway, that's our

little push about Patreon.

73

It's only 10 a month.

74

We do those sessions once a month,

like we said, but we also record them.

75

So we have people internationally that

aren't ever able to line up time zones.

76

Oh yeah.

77

Shout out Switzerland.

78

Yeah, and they, like, we get

good, like, notes and comments

79

and stuff and people weigh in.

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And it has other exclusive episodes

that we record that are, like, we're

81

usually screen sharing in those

Patreon episodes so we can, like,

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really show you, like, the stuff we're

doing or, like, systems we're using

83

and what we like or don't like, so.

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It's, I've, I've loved having the

Patreon community and our loyal hotties.

85

Like it's been really fun.

86

And Sean just started secretly a

Facebook group for Loyal Hotties only.

87

It's, so, I guess that's now part of it.

88

I am still at this juncture disabled

from Facebook, so yes, it's Sean

89

and his friends, , Sean's Hotties.

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I, I was like, okay, I, we were gonna

beta test this, so right now it is.

91

It is just a group for loyal hotties.

92

It is a closed group.

93

So you have to be a member of the

Patreon, but we're in there starting

94

discussions and getting things moving.

95

So yeah, there's, I've heard.

96

It's great.

97

One day Rebecca will have

to like, Sean has been put.

98

So this is like, maybe you

were the one that hacked me.

99

Cause Sean has been pushing for this

Facebook group and I'm like, we cannot

100

take on one more thing right now.

101

And I don't think I can either, but I did

it anyway, which is very, It's very on

102

brand that I'm like, well, but the, you

guys have like all been wanting to do it.

103

So that's great.

104

I know mom, we all wanted to go to

Legoland and you're the only one

105

who wants to just go to SeaWorld.

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Just go by yourself.

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We just want to go to, we're

just going to Legoland.

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Dad's taking us to Legoland.

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Seriously, like this is

actually my life now.

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So maybe I'll be there eventually,

hopefully by the time you're hearing this.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, and then of course we have our shop.

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huntingdesignersclub.

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com that we spent months toiling

over and are really excited about.

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So if you wanted.

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Check out any of the tools we've created.

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We've made them affordable

and approachable.

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I know they're really, it's

designed for various levels.

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Like I'm always excited when I read

about designers who like message

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us and talk about some of them.

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And I'm like, fuck, this is like,

this is a big shit designer.

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As far as I'm concerned, and I'm like,

wait, so it always makes me excited.

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But there's also, I love knowing

that there's designers who are

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starting out like how we were

seven years ago or whatever.

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And like, Truly wish I had had some

of this stuff when I first started and

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like, had to, we had to beta test it

ourselves and create what was missing.

128

Yeah, cause we couldn't find it.

129

We couldn't find it or

it existed, but it was.

130

Your firstborn child to, to

get it, which when you're first

131

starting your business is insane.

132

We had a quote from somebody once

who said, if I could afford to

133

buy that, then I wouldn't need it.

134

Which I felt like really sums it up.

135

Yes.

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Like, so that's where we're sort of

like building from that with resources

137

that will actually be helpful to

you and quick to implement and.

138

We're always open to, we've always

been open to questions from designers.

139

Like we get some DMs sometimes

where they're like, this is

140

what I'm struggling with.

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Is this the thing that

will help with that?

142

So we can't promise that like, we're not

chat GPT, like an AI powered chat bot.

143

But whenever we've had hotties reach

out to us and say, is this the thing

144

that will help me with that struggle?

145

There have been times where I've said,

actually, this is really meant for a

146

different scale than where you're at.

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So we have been able to reply to

hotties and email or in our DMS

148

about some of the tools in our

shop and the templates of like.

149

The thing that you're saying isn't

how this tool will help you sometimes,

150

and then many times it does and it's

great, but we're not shy to tell you,

151

hey, that's not exactly this thing.

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That won't solve all your problems.

153

Or what you want would take

magic and witchcraft, which

154

unfortunately, I'm still looking for.

155

Bring me four sticks from a bog in

Scotland and some eclipsed water.

156

Solve my problems, please.

157

I need that.

158

And now for the show.

159

Without further ado.

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Okay.

161

So what are we talking about?

162

I mean, the, the like bullet is people

who are interested in switching one

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industry or career hopping into.

164

Interior design and I feel like there

was we get in our day to day lives and

165

we've each had different conversations.

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I've done a couple of consultations

over zoom with people.

167

And I don't know where it

feels hard right now to make it

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sunshine and rainbows for people.

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So we just wanted to not be

poopooing it because we're

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obviously all still doing it.

171

But there are some realities when,

especially if you're like at a level

172

of success in another industry.

173

Yeah.

174

Cause so kind of the background for this

is that I just recently with it, like this

175

week had a conversation with someone who,

again, I love this person's really great.

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They're very smart.

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They're a really like well

established in their industry.

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You said they were smart like five times.

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I honestly am so impressed by

like the business acumen and the

180

thoughtfulness of some people.

181

Cause she's, yeah, like she's truly being

very considerate of what she's doing.

182

She's trying to develop a plan.

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I appreciate all of that, but also like

her business mindset was just so sharp.

184

And I have no doubt that.

185

She could be successful

moving into our industry.

186

It's the, how do you do this?

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Because she's so well established

and she was referred by.

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A really great past manager and friend

of mine who was in the banking industry

189

with me and I 100 like if this person

said, I need you to talk to this person

190

today, I would immediately say like,

yes, every time because she'll she's

191

very thoughtful about who she would

ask me something or asking for favors.

192

And I know there's a

great intent behind it.

193

When that past manager asked

me, she works in executive

194

coaching, like she's hired by.

195

Corporations to be a private

coach for their CEOs and CEOs

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and like they're not employed.

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She's not working for those

companies and, you know, themselves.

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She's hired to just be almost

like the corporate coach and

199

therapist for their C suite people.

200

So I trust her recommendation and.

201

This person that I met with, she has

been in her industry for so long, but

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knows that she's not passionate about it.

203

And I think that's a common thread you

and I both hear from people because

204

we were in a similar space too.

205

So I think there's a few things like

you want to jump in the industry.

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Um, so we both did this.

207

You know, mid career, like we weren't,

you know, living in our parents basement,

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still like willing to work for peanuts,

like we couldn't totally do that, but we

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both also had a level of safety net from

partners, which I think is irresponsible

210

when some designers say they just went

out and did this without, you know,

211

Admitting some of those resources.

212

A hundred percent.

213

Yeah.

214

I think it's unfair and it's giving

this like faux look at how easy it

215

is to just hustle and bootstrap it.

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Like that is not bootstrapping it.

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No.

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Cause you have a fallback.

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I mean, I'm not saying that it was easy.

220

Like it was stressful.

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It's still stressful to be honest,

but I couldn't, I don't think I could

222

have done what I did without him.

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Although I did do it in my first job.

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But I was able to do a side hustle.

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So in that instance, I'm on a first

job when I went from corporate to

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my own company, freelance in graphic

design, I wasn't partnered at all.

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I was totally single, had no savings or.

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Cushion and, but I side hustled it.

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So I basically work double

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and I was young and energetic.

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And you were like child

free mortgage free.

232

Yeah.

233

So that like, I totally, I'm

not saying that's a bad thing.

234

I'm just saying like,

no, my brain changes.

235

You're a little bit like, okay,

I could move in with my parents.

236

I'm 30 years old, but I could do that.

237

If you had to start over.

238

Yeah.

239

Yeah.

240

I feel that.

241

Yeah.

242

But there are, I think a lot of

designers who I see out in the

243

world that are successful and like

no shade to them, but they are

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living in a level of luxury already.

245

It looked like to me a lot of times

and are associated with a higher

246

social, economical community,

which I think helps tremendously.

247

I, I agree.

248

So if you don't, I couldn't do it.

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I couldn't have done it.

250

Yeah.

251

If you don't have that, I definitely

think it's trickier, but not impossible.

252

You just really have to be a hustler.

253

Yeah.

254

So like in this case, it's like someone

leaving like an executive level role.

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I have to be honest, like, and

I talked with her about this.

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I don't feel bad about saying it now, but

I, I had to explain how there were there.

257

It's very unlikely that

she would be coming into.

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Any type of job in our industry,

making anywhere comparable to what

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we are, what she's doing, especially

if you don't want to operate a

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business, which kind of hurts.

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Angle, right?

262

Yeah.

263

And I think part of that is just

part of what drove her decision to

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say that was the fact that she knows

that she cannot go without an income.

265

She's a single mom.

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Like she cannot not have an income.

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She has to have an income and there

isn't the option to just make the leap.

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And I completely understand that.

269

Like you don't have, there's

when you are your own safety net,

270

there is no way to handle that.

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Other than I've got to start

somewhere with a significant salary

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that can support where I'm all,

what I'm already having to do.

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Yeah.

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So I think there's two sides of this.

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If like getting into the industry, I think

is one thing to get a job in the industry.

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I think we can touch on that,

but then like getting into

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entrepreneurship in a new industry,

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like most designers have done it.

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Like we like almost every

designer I know has done this.

280

So I.

281

For sure.

282

I'm not saying it's not possible.

283

And I think somebody who comes

from an executive level, like it

284

sounds like she exudes a lot of

confidence and professionalism and the

285

confidence, especially, I think you

are somebody who can feel good about

286

putting big numbers out right away.

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You can write, grow faster,

way faster than I did.

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Yeah.

289

So we're not all created equal in,

And I think like the drawback is

290

that many, many design firms who can

afford to sort of like take a risk

291

on someone with no experience in the

industry or whatever they, I feel

292

like it's hard in a very small firm

to not be bringing as much experience.

293

That's my perception.

294

So to try to get a job, if you're

somebody who's like, I don't want

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to start with my own business, I

want to work for another designer.

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Yeah, like I would not as a small firm

for me to be taking the risk to bringing

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on someone, they have to immediately

start bringing skills to the table.

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Unfortunately, they can't be like,

Learning they can't, I can't be teaching

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their CAD course to them in my, I can't

be training that, or like, I can't

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teach customer service that you, that

you've got to be bringing me stuff

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that you start running day one, like.

302

I know we were having an internal chat

about this and this happens a lot where

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people are hungry, they're willing to

learn and they approach, I've gotten

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these emails, I'm willing to learn.

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And it's like, okay, but who's going to.

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Teach you and like I have

to pay you to teach you.

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It's like a double dip on me

because of your time, attention,

308

expertise, intellect, all of

that, plus money, plus money.

309

So it's really a big.

310

Ask if you're like a one man show,

like if like I'm a one woman show and

311

it's also not really fair because I

mean, I tried to do this and it wasn't

312

really fair to that person because I, I

have too many hats to be that helpful.

313

So I think there is a way to do it,

but really you kind of have to be

314

willing to literally do anything.

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Like your body is what you are giving up.

316

Like you are the schlepper.

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You are the.

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Aaron runner, you are maybe the coffee

getter and that sounds shitty, but

319

like, that would be helpful to me.

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But me teaching you how to

use chief architect is not

321

helpful to me when I'm teaching.

322

But like someone saying

someone proactively saying,

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Rebecca, do you have lunch?

324

Let you need to be fed.

325

Like that would help

you a lot as a business.

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Like Ainsley did when

she was working with us.

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Like, yeah, like I'm ordering you.

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I'm ordering you a sandwich, like,

let me take care of you a little bit.

329

For sure.

330

Let me make sure that you're, or

like, Hey, I noticed in the email

331

that client didn't get replied to yet.

332

What can I, do you want me to call them?

333

Can I schedule that phone call with you?

334

Like, what do you want me to do?

335

And I feel like that the, for me, people

that I've talked to are often missing that

336

when they say like, what can I do for you?

337

Yeah.

338

Like the what?

339

And also what's in it for me is.

340

Like I need to get something

out of it for that exchange.

341

That's just how it works.

342

Like I don't sell my services

for free to my clients.

343

I can't offer.

344

A design education for free to a

potential employee or someone who's

345

switching industries, although I'm

willing to acknowledge that you have

346

transferable skills, but I think

that a lot of people haven't really

347

inventoried their transferable skills.

348

You really need to outline

that, I think, and understand

349

what they could possibly be.

350

And so when I got my first.

351

Internship.

352

I was not getting paid and I was

able to though convince them to let

353

me shadow a couple of designers.

354

And in exchange, my transferable

skills were marketing and social media.

355

And that was totally helpful to them.

356

So, yeah, because it was something that

they couldn't do or weren't doing on their

357

own, and then you could help them with it.

358

And then that became like a place where

I was able to grow and learn for a bit,

359

but then when, okay, I don't, I need to

move past doing the marketing side of it.

360

So, and then, and it was never

supposed to be a long term thing.

361

So that's one, a huge way to look at it.

362

I think I've really like dig

into what your skills are.

363

I think maybe it's tricky, like ex banker.

364

Like, I don't want to show you

my finances, but you're the,

365

if you're the new guy on the

team, but you know what I mean?

366

Yeah.

367

But finding other, like there would

be other skills that you would have

368

that maybe I didn't, especially

like around technology or like

369

spreadsheets and presentations.

370

Like there's a lot of things you

might not realize are super helpful

371

that a lot of people don't have.

372

Yeah.

373

Honestly, like if you said to me today,

who would I think about bringing it?

374

It'd be like, if someone showed up

and they had a really awesome personal

375

Instagram or a Tik TOK presence, I would

let them handle a lot of stuff for me.

376

The baby, not everything, but like, I'd be

happy to let someone who has another skill

377

come in and help me with something like

that, that I am missing for my business.

378

Or taking off of your plate.

379

Taking off my plate something.

380

A big thing for me personally, and

I know this isn't just about me

381

personally, but I, I need someone to

help keep up with things tenaciously.

382

Like, When you see that vendor order,

is that going to arrive on time?

383

And I do feel like there is a

really big gap for people who are

384

shifting industries of like, you

don't, you don't come in with that.

385

I'm going to observe mentality.

386

And I do think a lot of people,

when they make a switch, they're

387

like, well, I need to observe first.

388

And unfortunately, I think this is

why so many of the job postings.

389

For assistance and otherwise talk about

being like being hungry, being what

390

else to say, self, self starter and an

ambitious self starter and what that,

391

yeah, like, unfortunately, when I read

that, what I'm, what I now understand is

392

like that ambitious self starter is the

person who will literally look at the

393

pile of boxes and be like, I got it, I got

the box cutter, I'm breaking them down.

394

Like I, they're going in the recycle bin.

395

No one's asking, no one is like waiting

for you to, you're just jumping in.

396

And I, I would say like, just, Hey, are

these cool to go in the recycle bin?

397

Oh, no, I need those for my vendor.

398

We don't do that, but I don't want

to sound like the whole, like.

399

Nobody wants to work sitting on my hands

and there's just like a pile of shit

400

around me and that does happen where it's

like I'm hustling around and then you're

401

just like, why am I the one sweating?

402

What are you doing?

403

Like there have been stories of

people that are like, Hey, can you

404

stay and deal with the end of this?

405

Photo shoot and pack everything up.

406

And the staff member kind of, maybe

they didn't say no, but they, their

407

body said, no, Uhhuh, . And the

the other side of that is, well,

408

then I'm, you want me to do it?

409

That's so I, if you or me, and like,

in this hierarchy, it should be you.

410

Yeah.

411

The, the, but I will do it.

412

Like I, yeah, I do it.

413

Like that's the, the like part of this

is like the humble pie, unfortunately.

414

Yeah.

415

You have to be ready to do that.

416

And I think, honestly, I, I think

if we're being really fair, I don't

417

think that most people are able.

418

To separate themselves from their

background and experience and all their

419

extra skills in a multi level company

that they have different people to

420

do things like take out the trash,

421

you're not used to doing

the admin behaviors again.

422

And you're like, I'm not an admin.

423

It's like, okay, unfortunately

here you are again.

424

And I think that a lot of people

who even I've talked to and

425

otherwise, like, they're not

really being fair with themselves.

426

I'm not going to say to, it's not,

it's not this one I just talked to,

427

but some of the people I talked to, you

can tell I leave those conversations.

428

I'm like, they can't set their ego aside.

429

Like they are not

actually ready to do this.

430

And unfortunately for them, the hard

part is that like that, that gets

431

that personality trait of theirs,

that's like their pride or their ego

432

or whatever it is, is in the way of

them actually having a great learning

433

experience and potentially making it

faster for them to reach their own

434

phase of entrepreneurship with a great

knowledge and experience, but they let

435

that get in the way of their growth.

436

If their goal is to become an

entrepreneur, like newsflash.

437

You're going to do this all anyway,

the full vertical, you are doing

438

all of it, unless you are a very

efficient, organized person with some

439

amount of capital to start that you

immediately can hire assistants and

440

VAs and folks to do a lot of the stuff

that you Is not in your pay grade,

441

but I don't know.

442

I don't.

443

So that just feels like entrepreneurship

maybe isn't right for that person.

444

And working in a bigger firm where

there are very clear roles and you know

445

what your clear role is going into it.

446

Yeah.

447

Like this designer that I was talking

to, like if she had entrepreneur

448

or not designer, this woman who

wants to get into design industry.

449

I personally think that her biggest

attribute and skill that she would

450

be bringing to the industry is

451

almost like a fractional COO for a company

or like a business development person.

452

Like the skill set that she can bring

with like her sales background and her

453

like, understanding of business acumen.

454

Like that is really valuable to a

lot of designers, but you'd have

455

to find a design firm that's of a

certain size that they can justify

456

bringing someone in who's sort of.

457

The, you know what she might be good at

now that we're just like coaching this

458

one person, I know a rep, I actually,

I did bring that up actually, because

459

that's another avenue to get into the

industry and have a little bit more

460

of like a systematized kind of, right,

there's different types of, and it's

461

sales based, but also relationship based.

462

So I did bring up repping as like, there's

reps, there's internal and external reps,

463

but you're kind of locked in and you are

having to be really tenacious for the

464

revenue is what you make of it usually.

465

Cause it's really mostly

commission based or your market.

466

Yeah.

467

Like you could pop into a job that

has just designers that are going

468

to order from you no matter what.

469

Right.

470

Cause it's a good big company.

471

Yeah.

472

And I did bring up to her showroom.

473

Like if you were a showroom rep or

sales person, like at A design center

474

or somewhere like she could probably

easily handle, like working at a

475

Schumacher or working on a fabric,

like about what those roles are.

476

Like, I don't know a lot about them,

but like the idea of it being sort

477

of semi retail, but very private

retail and very service based and

478

salesman based, like understanding your

product and what, what you're doing.

479

Like, I think her ability to solve

problems and react in To, to the

480

needs of a client are still there.

481

But if you're going to switch

industries, it's real for me.

482

The hard sell is I've never been

a designer, but I'm like DIYing

483

my house or I did my own house and

now I'm going to be a designer.

484

And whenever I see that,

I'm like, that's so cute.

485

But like, The reality of how a working

design firm operates is not like

486

how your home remodel project went.

487

There's so much more to it

than just what you learned.

488

No, it's just like a small aspect, but it

might get, I mean, that's kind of how I

489

started, although I had entrepreneurship

of a creative company behind me.

490

But so that gets your like

passion, I think, activated, but.

491

And like one check box, right?

492

Yeah.

493

Check, do you care about this?

494

Yeah.

495

Yeah.

496

So it's not saying like, they

won't be good designers or business

497

owners, but they're not ready.

498

But just that, yeah, you're not, I can't

hand you a whole project right now.

499

Even if you handled your own

house, I, I'm not going to be as a

500

principal able to hand that over.

501

I don't think most people are going

to want to start over as an assistant.

502

I know that is like, I mean, I

think that's really the back to the

503

humble part that you and I both did.

504

And I mean, I did my free fucking

internship at 42 years old.

505

Like not for 15 an hour, but

that's California minimum.

506

So that's the internship role was

like very, like, Okay, we want you to

507

do they basically they had to pay me

because some of the stuff I would be

508

doing doesn't fall under the rules for

what can be done for a free internship

509

in California under the labor laws.

510

So it was like, well, we

want you to do that stuff.

511

So we're paying you that

we're paying you 15.

512

I mean, I learned a ton from that and I.

513

I'm totally grateful for the experience.

514

So, but it like the biggest hit was to

my ego, like I'm really doing this, but

515

if you're not willing to like try and

see, but also again, I had a partner

516

who I could kind of coattail for a bit.

517

Yeah.

518

You had a little bit of a buffer.

519

A little, and I gave

myself time, like a tie.

520

We had agreed on a timeframe of.

521

Me figuring some stuff out.

522

So other people I've talked with, I

generally, like genuinely, I don't

523

believe anybody is like, I just want

to come somewhere and get a paycheck.

524

I've never had that vibe, but where

they're missing the salesmanship of

525

it is like, they don't have their

elevator pitch ready of like the,

526

this is what I can bring to you.

527

In exchange for just being very

hardworking, willing to get dirty.

528

I will get in the trenches with you,

but this is the other stuff I'm good at.

529

Do you need those things?

530

Cause I just see a lot of people

approaching it as like, this

531

is what I can do, but not.

532

Is this what you need?

533

Because it's about the fit,

like the marketing skills.

534

What if that, the place you

interned already had a team who

535

was more skilled at that than you?

536

It's like, then, or where they

were paying them to do it.

537

Yeah.

538

Why would we hire you stepping on toes?

539

For sure.

540

Yeah.

541

I think, yeah, because it does come

down to like, if I am a Small operator,

542

which I am, and I don't always have

time to train you on every single thing.

543

What are you going to do in those hours?

544

Like, I'm, I mean, I'll admit, like,

I'm not probably the greatest manager

545

because I don't have processes set up

for this, but like the what, what should

546

I do next stresses me out to no end.

547

Yeah.

548

And now what can I work on?

549

You're like, well, my eyes are so big.

550

If I can think of something

that I don't have to.

551

Tell you about how to do it, then I

will tell you, but I don't think you're

552

going to want to do my target returns.

553

I mean,

554

I just think, okay.

555

So if you're practical and I've

told this to people, like, honestly,

556

I would, if I were you get some

sort of training, at least in some

557

software, like if you take some.

558

Courses.

559

There's plenty of courses on

SketchUp or CAD or chief architect,

560

and you can come with some sort of

knowledge that you did on your own.

561

That would be really helpful.

562

Yeah.

563

And I, I know some designers are

willing to train people and or

564

pay for the training, but I feel

like that's more of lateral moves.

565

Like if you started as an admin and I love

you and I want to continue to help you.

566

Then maybe I would do that, but like,

yeah, I don't know you or your work ethic.

567

Like I am not prepared to invest

time and money for you to learn

568

what I had to learn on my own.

569

I don't know.

570

This is my gen X coming out, but Yeah,

so I don't mind if I have to train

571

someone on something, if I'm still

getting something else, I'd have to do

572

not as much want to train someone on CAD?

573

I personally don't, but that doesn't

mean that, I know other firms where

574

the person is like, doesn't know it and

they're like, helping them get through

575

it and they get better at it, but like.

576

But they had other things that they

brought to the table in the meantime.

577

Totally.

578

If they were, honestly, for me personally,

this is just like, what do I look for?

579

I truly want someone.

580

Who need, like, this is my

big thing, needs to work.

581

I don't want, like, I need this job.

582

I need my income.

583

I need my revenue.

584

I need my billables.

585

I need this.

586

My life, my life doesn't depend on it,

but like my lifestyle and my, for my

587

survival economically depends on this job.

588

And when other people are going into it

and it's just like, Oh, this is cute.

589

Like I work at a little boutique one

day a week and I sell candles like,

590

and that they don't need it because

their husband's rich or whatever, or

591

like what all, who knows what that is.

592

That's not who I personally

want to hire because.

593

You, when I really need you, you're

like, Oh shoot, I'm at a big soccer camp

594

or big ski week with my kids that week.

595

And it's like, okay, girl,

like go get, get out.

596

Like, I'm not gonna, it's not, I'm

running a design company, not a prison.

597

So go, but like, also that's

not helping my business grow.

598

If you don't need to be here, I

kind of don't want you to be here.

599

And I do think there's those people

who are like, I want to join your

600

industry, but only when it's convenient.

601

It's like, I'm sorry.

602

That's not here.

603

Like, go work at the I only

want to do the cute stuff.

604

Go work at the Newport Beach Amber

Lewis store for, for one day a week.

605

But don't be trying to come in, like,

help me do my client projects, but yet

606

you won't be here for my presentations,

or you won't be here to answer the phone,

607

or Or you won't be here to help clean

up the photo shoot, like Yeah, yeah.

608

Or I need you to go to FedEx and

grab the packages that they've been

609

leaving the hanger on my door all week.

610

Like, I need that kind of stuff.

611

So, for me, I want people

who want and need the work.

612

Like, not an option, not just like

a, I'm doing this for funsies.

613

Right.

614

Yeah.

615

I'm going to opt out of that task.

616

Yeah.

617

Yeah.

618

Oh, I'm sorry.

619

I'm busy that day.

620

It's like, oh cute.

621

I wish I could say that.

622

I'm busy doing my job that day.

623

Like, I'm not saying work all day.

624

And don't make, like, I'm not

saying don't make a living wage.

625

I'm not saying any of that, but

for me, I don't want someone who

626

just wants to dip their toes in it.

627

Well, you need to be like, like if

this person's rely, it's basically, are

628

they reliable, are they reliable and

why bother training someone if they're

629

not really gonna like help pay back

that investment by being there when you

630

need them, like, what's the point then?

631

So for me, I want that.

632

I also, I don't want to teach someone CAD.

633

But I also need people who are 100

percent confident in being able to

634

answer a phone and make a phone call.

635

And they, when I say, call that client

and schedule a meeting for this, I want

636

to know that that is, they will pick up

the phone, they will be professional, they

637

know how to, like, handle themselves on a

call, and I can't teach phone etiquette.

638

Because I've had the, unfortunately

I have had the intern who was

639

like on the phone with the vendor.

640

What do they do with this?

641

Oh, they're asking about, no, I don't

need to play speakerphone with them.

642

Like you need to have, I

can't dial the phone for me.

643

Yeah.

644

Like, yeah.

645

Like, can you hold the phone

up to my face while I'm like,

646

no, that's not what I need.

647

I need someone who will

do it separately from me.

648

And can write an email professionally and

can like, figure it out and if they have

649

questions say, okay, all right, let me

write all this down and I'll get back to

650

you exactly and that I can't, I can't.

651

I could teach it.

652

I'm not going to know.

653

I mean, there is like, can you

tap dance when you need to?

654

Can you fake it a little

bit just to be professional?

655

And like, not everyone's

going to have all the answers.

656

And some is like, you

have to figure it out.

657

But I agree.

658

I mean, you're definitely like, like,

I don't pick up the phone and just

659

call a client out of the blue, unless

like I really needed to, because they

660

hadn't responded to stuff on email.

661

But, um, Definitely vendors like I've

had people in the office who don't

662

want to like you have to call a freight

company like They don't never like,

663

there's just a lot of circumstances

where there's some, some types of

664

businesses in our industry that they

are old school or they're in a warehouse

665

or not on a computer all the time.

666

Contractors subs, like I talk

out to my, to contractors on the

667

phone more than anything else.

668

So, that's hard for you.

669

That's going to be hard.

670

It's gonna, it's only going to get worse.

671

Like, that, that's something for

me, like, I would rather outsource

672

CAD if I had to than train someone

on CAD or SketchUp or Chief.

673

Like, I'm not going to teach

you if you don't know that.

674

I'm not going to, and then

I'm not even an expert.

675

So like, I'm not maybe

going to teach you right.

676

Like, what?

677

Fair.

678

Fair.

679

What, what I would add to that also

is that in general, there's going

680

to be a limit to how much you can

be helpful if you don't get those

681

skills that are important to that

company, and eventually you might

682

find yourself phased out of something.

683

So if you want to be in an industry and

join it, you do have to sort of entrench

684

yourself in it and make sure that you have

the security that you're, that you are

685

losing by leaving that other industry.

686

And I don't know that a lot of people are

prepared to jump themselves in that deep

687

to something of they're like, I'm going to

make myself indispensable, like one way or

688

another, I'm going to be the most useful.

689

And if that means I have to learn

my trade, that's what that means.

690

Like, you have to get in deep.

691

Yeah, commit.

692

And I just think, like, overall, just

if you're considering this, just like,

693

I'm sure you're asking yourself a lot of

questions, but every industry is hard.

694

I don't know.

695

Sometimes I'm just like work is

called work because it's work,

696

you know, like there's a level

of stress no matter what it is.

697

So we're here like kind of

being negative Nellies because.

698

We're in the pain of it, but sometimes

it's just like you fantasize about that.

699

Ooh, could I just like cut a nice

paycheck and work for an office again?

700

And just like not have anxiety.

701

I don't know.

702

I mean, we're not the only

designers asking that question, so

703

I definitely don't want to pretend.

704

I do start a lot of

conversations with people.

705

If I'm like, just so you know.

706

This isn't like sunshine and unicorns

over here, like it's stressful.

707

The same Texas, it's demanding.

708

This ain't Texas.

709

Yeah, it's demanding.

710

It's tiring.

711

You invest a lot of yourself in it and

emotionally there's an exchange that

712

comes with creativity and all of that.

713

Like that is something that can be

hard to work through and I don't, I

714

just don't think that a lot of people

are ready for what that means, like.

715

How much we as principals,

especially invest in our businesses,

716

emotionally and financially, and.

717

It's very hard when you come from another

industry when, like, literally I'm like,

718

do I really need to order a whole box

of 11 by 17 presentation paper because

719

that's kind of like wasteful of my

resources or can I just have two reams

720

of it in the office and like I look at,

like, I'm not going to waste a bunch

721

of my company resources on something.

722

And then you worked in a corporate

environment, especially like a big

723

environment and they're just like,

oops, I accidentally pushed a hundred

724

instead of 10 and you're, but for

me, yeah, like, but for me, no, those

725

things matter at the stage of like

where I choose to invest my money.

726

And when you come from that school

of thought of like, well, it's

727

just a couple thousand dollars.

728

No, ma'am.

729

It's not just that when you're

running a business and looking at your

730

efficiency quotients and looking at

every billable hour and your markup.

731

That just came out of my paycheck.

732

Thanks.

733

Yeah.

734

So I do.

735

I know that that makes it hard,

but if you're going to leave.

736

Another industry and come here,

you gotta, like, you're probably

737

going to need to join something.

738

Like I go to IDS events maybe, or like

network more show up at industry stuff.

739

Like go to the stuff and like, try to

talk to other designers and maybe do like

740

your market research of, Hey, they might

not be hiring, but what do they need and

741

figure out what is the thing that you

already have, don't try to sell something

742

you can't do or don't already do.

743

Cause that's going to come out real quick

when you start having to do the job.

744

But like, Tailor what you're

trying to pitch in a resume or

745

in an informational interview or

something to what actually benefits.

746

And kind of like the hit

the ground running stuff.

747

Like what can I do?

748

On the first day that will be helpful

and does not require extensive training.

749

You're going to get trained.

750

I mean, don't listen to me.

751

Like most people will train you or have

like a process document ready to go.

752

Like I'm slowly developing them, but yeah.

753

So there's things that you can, you need

to have, I think, something pretty ready.

754

Yeah.

755

Like you're looking at

a small micro business.

756

I told this person that I talked

to, I'm like, if you could bring

757

a case study about how you.

758

Increased profit margin and it's some,

and it's something that could be easily

759

like paralleled to the design industry.

760

I was like, sell that because if you

can make me more profit, I'm interested.

761

I want to hear more if you

are working for yourself.

762

Yeah.

763

Like tell me how you're

going to pay for yourself or.

764

For example, like I was telling her,

I'm like, I don't know if you want to

765

keep doing this, but a lot of designers

are not great at HR and, and, and

766

team management and process creation.

767

Oh, they're terrible.

768

Many of them.

769

So I was like, if you, if that's

something you could do, want to do

770

and would be good at, or have done it.

771

Change management and business

development, all that stuff is very

772

valuable for a creative based industry

where they don't want to do that.

773

But when we were talking with,

I was talking with Claire,

774

our friend Claire about this.

775

She was like, but do they want to do that?

776

And that is probably the final

question to wrap this up is if you're

777

leaving the industry, what do you

actually want to be doing one day?

778

Right.

779

Because when I did the internship and

was doing the marketing and social

780

media, that's the industry I had left.

781

So I used it as a way to

kind of get my toe in, but.

782

I had to transition back out of it.

783

So there's going to be

different scenarios about that.

784

But yeah, you don't want to be leaving one

thing and then be doing it somewhere else.

785

Possibly.

786

So know what your goals really are.

787

Yeah.

788

Like if she was like, I actually

hate the HR part of my job.

789

I'm like, okay, then don't pitch that.

790

And also don't apply for jobs where

it's like, you're the office manager.

791

All the employees report to you.

792

Sorry.

793

Like that's, you're

going to be doing that.

794

You're not going to get into being a

designer and you're going to piss that

795

owner off if you try to, and I did relate

to that person that I was like, if your

796

goal is to be a senior designer, you're

not going to get there by going into it.

797

You're less likely to go into that after

being an office manager or a business

798

development officer or COO, like.

799

If you're firmly starting in that

place, that designer will have to

800

love the shit out of you to want to

train you to be a senior designer

801

and lose you from that other value.

802

If you're really doing

that other job well.

803

Okay, so like if that was me and I Um,

somebody who tries to be creative, maybe

804

I would be very open with this designer

and be like, Hey, if this is a part,

805

this is part of your business that is

weak and you don't have established

806

processes in HR, I will spend the next

six months getting your systems up.

807

Developing this program for

your company in exchange.

808

Can I start training and moving over

into the design that I would totally

809

think about it that like, as long

as it's like a very open and you're

810

in a trusting situation and you're

not going to leave anybody high and

811

dry, I think that could totally work.

812

You just have to find the right fit and

And I sell it and part of that to me

813

comes back to like the tenacity of it

again is like no one's going to hand

814

that plan to you, you have to develop

it and figure out how you're going to do

815

it if that's the thing you really want

because I'm the principal, I'm not going

816

to tell you how to make up that transfer

plan and I don't know what you can do.

817

Yeah, yeah.

818

Like, I mean, that.

819

Back to my very first transition

out of my corporate job into

820

my independent graphic design.

821

I, the way I really did that was

I pitched when I quit, I gave

822

notice and said, I know this is

going to leave you guys in a lurch.

823

So how about I work as a contractor

for six months, part time.

824

So I negotiated my way out of

that job as a way to slowly like

825

change to like ratchet it down.

826

Yeah.

827

And that.

828

Totally worked.

829

And you had to do it though.

830

But it was never, I was the only person

who would have pulled that off, I think.

831

But it was also a time in the business

where that my department was, it was

832

just me and maybe one other person and

I had been there for a really long time.

833

So, you know, like you just

have to kind of get creative.

834

Yeah.

835

It takes a lot of work.

836

This it's really like, I don't want to

say this, like, I don't want everyone,

837

if you're listening to leave and

think, Oh my God, I shouldn't do it.

838

I just, the hard part is that.

839

It really does require so much conviction

and like, sometimes the passion

840

runs out faster than the conviction.

841

Does that make sense?

842

Well, yeah.

843

Like how much you love interior design

that tank sort starts to run dry.

844

I mean, it's the same

in a love relationship.

845

If you're trying to have a lifelong

relationship based on the feelings

846

you had in the first three months.

847

It's not probably going to work.

848

Yeah.

849

The, the newlywed type of that, like

fresh relationship, lust, that will not

850

sustain you for a 60 year relationship.

851

No, you need a lot of other

things to make that work.

852

And so I think that's the same in design

personally, is that like, if you're

853

looking to switch industries, you're going

to need to bring a lot of conviction and

854

really know what your selling points are.

855

And then check those selling points

against what designers actually

856

need, because you might think it's

something they need, but it doesn't

857

fit with their business at the

time or the size of their business.

858

And so you are hunting a

little bit of a perfect fit.

859

The fit for sure.

860

And I was going to say, hopefully

this just makes you put your,

861

let me put their hat on.

862

Like you should be thinking

of what their pain points are.

863

And if you do want to pick someone's

brain, you can't a lot of designers.

864

I, I do them.

865

Sean does them.

866

A lot of designers on the expert do

them where you can pay to get consulted,

867

take consultative advice because it's.

868

I don't really want to grab coffee

with anyone anymore for that.

869

I mean, it sounds shitty, but like,

I really just don't have time.

870

Yeah.

871

For me, I would not again, asking my

time for benefiting only you like.

872

And we're, no,

873

it's not being rude because like, I

barely have time to like, even pick my

874

nephew up early from school from daycare.

875

Some days, like I would love to

be able to have more of that.

876

I literally don't eat lunch most days.

877

So it's not cause I'm trying

to be hustle mentality.

878

It's just like, it's just doesn't happen.

879

So, and unfortunately these conversations

don't lend themselves to quick exchanges.

880

So that's the difference between like.

881

If another working designer

reaches out to me and says, I'm

882

looking to do something like this.

883

Do you know an upholsterer who can do it?

884

I can answer that quickly with their

knowledge because we're speaking a

885

similar language on something most of

the time, but this is a different type.

886

Like you're looking for a career coaching.

887

There's so many dependencies and

like intricacies to this that it's

888

not just a 15 minute, truly grab a

coffee, 15 minutes, like there where

889

you're looking for an hour or more.

890

I wouldn't, I don't offer

that for just anybody.

891

And I have encouraged people to book my

own like Rennstead virtual consultations

892

to talk about that stuff more.

893

To me, this is where I get

kind of bitchy about it.

894

If you're not willing to pay me for my

time to give you that, then you're not

895

really, to me, you're not really serious.

896

Because if it was, if your dream is

not worth even a couple hundred bucks,

897

then what are we talking about here?

898

And like, it also is kind of

just an indoctrination into

899

what our business is like.

900

I mean, it's very much like

service first pay by the hour.

901

I thought, you know what?

902

We're like, we're like those little, no.

903

Oh no.

904

Well, maybe that was

that elevated it more.

905

I was imagining those little coin operated

horsey carousels at the front of like,

906

Oh, when you said that, I thought you

were going to say like motel room beds.

907

Yes.

908

Yeah.

909

Yeah.

910

I'll shake my heart

shaped bed for quarters.

911

Like, no, but I bet more like.

912

Okay, here, monkey, here's your 25 cents.

913

And then

914

it's just like starting out with the

starting transaction with respect.

915

Like And most designers

are going to feel that way.

916

So maybe not.

917

I don't know.

918

Maybe a little more generous

or like, I mean, I could see,

919

I think we've talked about this

before having like an office hour.

920

If you do feel like you want to mentor

and give back in that way, I think

921

there's ways to do it as if you're a

working designer and have like one month.

922

One hour a month.

923

I'm going to have an office hours,

pen and coffee session with somebody.

924

I think there's ways to be

generous with your time for sure.

925

But I, it's just hard right now.

926

I think hard for, I think

hard for everybody though.

927

I don't think that's just you and me.

928

I think that's a lot of designers.

929

Probably.

930

I mean, those expert sessions, like,

I mean, you could get access to some

931

really great designers on there.

932

They charge for that more than.

933

Yeah.

934

Uh, man, well, okay, so don't ask us

any questions if you have any, but

935

this is just this episode,

sorry, y'all just kidding.

936

We have also a, for the newbies episode

that we did earlier this year, if you're

937

in that realm and all of our old back

process party episodes, I think are

938

good to listen to, to kind of give you.

939

A peek into this nitty gritty

stuff that we talk about.

940

Yeah.

941

There's a lot.

942

If you want to be an entrepreneur.

943

If you do, I don't know

that everybody does.

944

No, some days, maybe not even us.

945

Okay.

946

Well, hope it's helpful.

947

If you're listening to this episode,

you're thinking about an industry shift.

948

Get out there, do your research.

949

Really?

950

If you do have a comment or question,

send us DMS or post on Instagram.

951

Like we do want to talk to you.

952

I mean, yeah, tell us something at least.

953

But.

954

Yeah, we want to know more.

955

Okay.

956

Ciao.

957

Okay.

958

Do it.

959

No, you do it.

960

Until next time.

961

Stay hot designers.

962

Thanks for listening to the hot

young designers club podcast.

963

For more on what we talked about

today, check out the show notes.

964

Your support helps us grow.

965

So share with your design

besties and subscribe and leave

966

a review on Apple podcasts.

967

Our conversations continue on Instagram

and be sure to download our monthly

968

resources on our website and our Patreon.