In this episode, we talk to Dr. Janelle Crowley, Chief of Staff at Governors State University. Dr. Crowley shares her experiences with hearing but not accepting “no” in spite of her struggles with hearing loss. She tells about the positive encouragement she received from many teachers and professors that inspired her career trajectory, as well as the disheartening stories of barriers and discouragement from others. We talk about the awareness and intentionality in helping students with different abilities feel included and capable. Dr. Crowley discusses her role at Governors State University and the many exciting initiatives in the works for the future. This episode was originally released under Teaching and Learning: Theory vs Practice Season 3 Episode 15.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

school, GSU, human resources, teachers, work, good, talk, words, abilities, reading, students, understand, educators, governor, president, diverse, skills, mother

SPEAKERS

Amy Vujaklija, Joi Patterson, Janelle Crowley

But it's important to note that you become cool people tell you what, who you are. And I think I thought that was my option.

This episode was originally released under the podcast titled teaching and learning theory versus practice. This rebooted episode has been migrated to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation.

And I am Dr. Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators.

So join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it. Good morning, Dr. Joy.

Good morning. Dr. Amy, how are you today?

I'm doing really well. I was just thinking about how we talk about all things. Education. Oh, me. Most recently, we talked to a literacy specialist. And we've talked to school psychologists and teachers in the classroom, president of the university, and then another conversation up and coming the provost. It's amazing how many ways in which people touch education, and how, in this case, I want to talk about how education has touched us and the people we talk to.

Right. This is going to be a very interesting conversation, just reading the bio that kind of gives me chills. Because this person is just so diverse in so many ways. And so you're right, we're not only going to talk about education, but how education touch them and transform them. So this is I am so looking forward to this conversation. Dr. Amy? Well,

and our topic today is just inspiring stories about different abilities and will lead Dr. Jenelle Crowley talk to us about those different abilities. Dr. Janelle Crowley is the Chief of Staff at Governor State University, Dr. Crowley holds an associate's degree, a bachelor's degree in public health in Business Administration, a master's degree in Human Resources Development, a second master's degree in business administration focusing on finance, and has her PhD in applied management and Decision Sciences. Dr. Crowley has 30 years of experience in municipal and county government, healthcare and higher education organizations. She has held positions as Director of Human Resources, president of McHenry County Sheriff's merit commission, police commissioner for two different communities, past President of the Illinois fire and police commissioner's Association, past president of the Stateline Society of Human Resource Management. Dr. Crowley started as a certified assessor and team leader for 12 years with the Commission on Accreditation for law enforcement agencies, and was nominated and awarded the breaking the glass ceiling award by the National Center for women in policing in Los Angeles. The recipient of the dark Wilson award for her vision and training through the University of Illinois was recognized as Woman of the Year by the Woodstock Women's Business and Professional Association, and highlighted as a distinguished alumni by McHenry County College. We are absolutely honored and privileged to have you with us today. Dr. Crowley?

Well, thank you. It's, I think my privilege to be here. And it's been something that I have looked forward to for a lot of time to be with GSU. So I'm very familiar with GSU going way back to a colleague of mine, who I met through the alumni fire police commissioners association. So my privileges online, we

are so happy that you're here. Amy, I know you got to catch your breath after that introduction, because Dr. Crowley is all that a bag of chips and a Pepsi to go along with that. That is an amazing background. And you know, I'm trying to think about the question that I want to ask you. And it's because your experience has been so diverse, that I just kind of wanted to sit next to you. It's like just talk to me Dr. Crowley just talk to me because you're so diverse. And when I I think of someone being able to synthesize their skills. You have really nailed it. Amy and I are both career changers. Ken did that once. But yours is really about someone who has this broad set of skills, and that you've been able to take those skills and work in government, work in education, work in law enforcement, and work in public, public and private spaces. I mean, it's amazing. And, you know, we see that now a lot of times with our young folks that they say how many jobs now will they have in their career? A lot, right? But you're a beat them. And I have the opportunity of going to a workshop with you. And there was this part of the workshop they asked, well, how many of you were parents when you went to school? How many of you are second first generation? How many of you were married? When you went to school? How many of you have every question that they asked? Dr. Crowley raised her hand? So not only are you amazing? You actually also work through some? I don't, I won't, I won't say adversity. Let's just say there were a lot of things going on in your life. Some good, you know, a lot of good. There was a lot of things going on. And yet you catapult yourself. And so let me see. Where's my question and all of this amazingness, I do want you to tell us about your position at Governor State University, what you're doing now. But I also want you to tell that story. Tell us about, you know, because for some people they see what you do is out of reach. So talk about your early beginnings in school. Tell us how you got from there to now be here at Governor State University. I know that some big question. But I'm going to sit back and I'm going to

good question. And from a human resources perspective, anytime you say that's a really good question. You're thinking of how you're going to answer the question. Right? So but I just have to frame where I am today that I have been a wonderful journey. And going back, I tell people, I have been out of fun, right? And, yes, there are challenges along the way. But as luck would have it. On my way to work this morning, I actually received a telephone call from one of my mentors. How convenient today, right? And because we don't talk that often, but I'm working on a project with her and she needed some help with something and I was able to provide it. I mean, how nice is that? Right? But I think that goes to probably the YouTube go back. I think it's all about resiliency, and not accepting the word no, or even perhaps misunderstanding what I was just told. So for example, I think my biggest cheerleader has always been my mother, to not take no for an answer. So I go back what really framed me, I think it was summer the challenge that that I added, experienced as a child, because sign language is my first language. So it's so I was very fortunate that my mother would not take the word no. And so both my brother and I learned how to speak at Mount St. Clair Academy in Clinton, Iowa, small little liberal arts Catholic institution, that's no longer there. But But I also the real recollection that I learned that I was somewhat different, goes back to when I was three, almost four, when I went for swimming lessons at the local pool. And I'm pulling on my mother's sweater and she looks down at me so I can read her lips. And I said, can I go swimming? And my mother said, Well, that's why we're here. So I immediately walked underneath the counter which are supposed to stay behind and go into the side room. I didn't know that. And I walked through the basket room out onto the big cement patio and I jumped into the pool because my mom said that's why I was here. And next thing you know, hands are flailing people are jumping in the pool in my mind There's like, well, you can't swim, and they go, but that's why I'm here. So I don't ever recall not knowing how to swim. But I think my belief and my mother said, I knew how to swim. So I sweat, I jumped in and swam to the edge. I thought that was cool. It was pretty nice Sir William blue. And so I didn't really understand that I was uniquely different, because my parents didn't treat me differently. So I think that goes on, and has been probably the monitor of my life, that you just move forward with what you have, and do the best that you can with what you've been given that

early inspiration, that's really powerful, you know, to have that, that the mother, the family structure that can really be that supportive feature in your achievement. Want to talk a little bit about educators tell us how educators in your life influenced or affected your success in school? I know that in some other conversations we've had, there are some positive and negative that you can share, share what you would like,

you know, it was interesting, because I'm, you know, I'm in a different genre for a lot of the people that are just entering school. But I have to say that the teachers and the school advisors are so critical, no matter the question from a student, or no matter what happens in what goes wrong. So with my hearing loss, my mother wouldn't take no. So I've had over 40 surgeries, in my lifetime, I'm probably closer to 50, with the most recent four that I've had. But with that, my hearing would be good one day, bad and good one day, bad one day. So until just a few years ago with the hearing aids, now it's more in an in a status quo where I can do pretty well. But in second grade, I went to a private Catholic school. And I think at that time, if you paid for going to a private school, they just moved you forward. And every class, every grade, I failed, except for penmanship. And in second grade, we were learning I before E except after C. I misspelled priest, because I didn't understand that it's I before E, except after seeing except for a few spit. That was, and I missed, I misspelled priest and, and the teacher slapped my hand with a ruler. And I didn't understand why. So that was second grade, I didn't understand. So I now know how to spell priests, right. And then in eighth grade, you know, it's interesting how they do, you know, I can go back in my life, and I can give you the names of the teachers. That caused a challenge in eighth grade, I had a teacher and from the day before, and that was really good at spelling, because that's something that I could do by myself, I could look at the word I could learn the word. So spelling has never been a problem for me, in reading was probably my go to, but in that particular class, it was eighth grade, my brother and I had transitioned to a different school. But from the day before, where I was facing the instructor up in front of the room, on that particular day, the custodians or staff had changed the desk, to the side of the room. And we were to take a test a spelling and, and definition test. The problem was, I couldn't understand what the teacher was saying, without reading his lips. So, and I didn't know that my hearing was getting worse again, if you just you learn to adjust, you modify. And so when I turned to look at the instructor, I looked at the teacher, and he screamed at me, and I could tell because of his facial expression, in his words, that I was copying off my next door neighbor. I had no need to copy. I knew the words, I just needed to know what word he was saying. And, and so when he's walking up and down the aisles to make sure everyone's doing their definitions. I didn't have a word on my paper. And he knew that I knew the words, but I didn't have one word because I didn't know what he said. So I had written down words, but not in the order, because I didn't know what he was saying. And I was terribly embarrassed, I was crying. And he realized that at that moment that I couldn't hear what he was saying. And he knelt down and looked at me. And he said, You can't hear me. And then I'm really in tears, right? Because now everybody in the classroom knows that I'm deaf. So that was that was a, that was a hard time. And he took me out of class and then called my mother and I started to surgeries all over again. So yes, and, and in high school, I worked extremely hard and wanted to make the Dean's list I did, I finally did. And it was a lot of work. And my, I wanted to go to college, just like my friends were going, I wanted to go. So I would, of course, set up an appointment with my advisor. And she just looked at me and she's, I don't think you can do it. And I go, I don't understand why I can do it. I made the Dean's List, why can't I go to college, it's just, it's just not for you. So without really understanding, I went home to talk my mom and dad and, and they were not really encouraging for me going to school either. And that Sunday night, my high school counselor came to my parents home, she was a neighbor a couple streets over. And she wanted to talk to my parents. And she asked me to leave the room. And so my siblings left the room because we were still having dinner. And I got up to leave. And my father held my arm. And he said, and he said her name. And he said, if you would like to speak to me about our daughter, she will stay in the room. And she told my parents that they she would not recommend throwing good money after bad because I was not college bound material.

Oh, my goodness, when did this change? Was there a person who flipped this narrative for you in education? Can you think of some positive experiences that change that direction for you? Yes.

So I did go to school, I started out at a small public school in Wisconsin. And I didn't do very well but met the love of my life. Right. And so I got married and there was an offer for him to work in the Chicagoland area. So we we jumped in. But it's important to note that you become who people tell you what, who you are. And I think I thought that was my option, as well. But it wasn't until my husband was accepted to Northwestern. And he was accepted into the school of police staff and command. And so we were both interested in law enforcement. That's really how we met. And one of the professors at Northwestern, he knew what I was working with, with, with my husband and I helped with the papers. And I helped with the presentations. And he's like, we hit the wrong person in this classroom. He said, you know, have you ever thought about a career, human resources and mainly what's human resource, but believe it or not, from a law enforcement perspective, and from a background where I've worked with a lot of juveniles, it was also an opportunity for me to learn different things, and rightfully so because I struggled with the radio, and he knew it. And so that's that was really the beginning that changed my trajectory, because I always wanted to study and study and employment law. And that opened up the world for human resources where I did, I did study employment law every day, moving forward, and, and he really encouraged me to go back to school I did. He was wonderful. And we still communicate today. He lives in Texas now. But he saw something in me and I move towards the career in human resources, which balance very well with law enforcement, and also health care. Because they're all about compliance. It's all about doing the right thing for the right reason in the right way. So human resources was a nice fit. I understood labor relations from a different perspective, because I lived it. So it worked out really well. It was a really nice balance for me to go into human resources and he identified that. So it was great. It was I had an Ultimate Ride and wonderful experience going through that thanks to him.

You're Story is such a powerful example of perseverance. And I think that started with you jumping in the swimming pool.

I think you're right.

And the support that you receive from your family, what I think about some of your educators, you know, part of it saddens me that so often we're not intentional about others, and their different abilities, you know, COVID really shine a light on that of being in a classroom and students with different abilities, and how they may have been impacted by COVID. Or, for example, how were you and packed it during the time such as COVID, when we were isolated, and then when you were isolated, you're behind a mask.

Correct? I will say that the to two and a half years of COVID. And even even as recently as Friday, when other people who wear a mask, I, I do still have a tendency to shut down. Because there's no reason for me to listen to them. Because I can't understand when they're talking behind the mask, I can't understand. And sadly, you know, we have to look at others, right. And in, we all have differences. And that, to me is what makes us great. But I will say that the to two and a half years during COVID, I was probably more isolated than I ever felt in my life. I mean, I couldn't even go shopping. And then I couldn't ask a question. And it brings up an interesting story. Because my husband and I, you know, we had never worked together, work in the same room environment together. And, and so he retired two years ago, and I and so all of a sudden, now I'm all day. And I'm just like, boy, this isn't gonna work. I'm not going to work this hard and have you sitting down here, watching TV and playing with the dog and doing what you want to do. So I, we we decided that a couple of house projects. And and that was the one time during the two years that we did go to a store. And I had to ask the gentleman at the lumber store as a please move back 12 feet, take your mask off and speak to me so we can get this purchased and care. Because it was a big decision. To me, it was a big decision and you're modifying something in your yard or in your home. And I needed I needed to understand,

I can remember my daughter coming home, she's a teacher crying. And she would say I'd rather be teaching on Zoom. At least I could see my students faces and they can see, you know they can she has a lot of ELL student English language learner students. And she said at least they could see my mouth. And it was just so disheartening, but we just have to really be intentional about different abilities. And I wonder how you're different ability impact your esteem and your drive to succeed. Well, and here it wasn't like a finger up to all those teachers that thought to that counselor was this. You know, that description that Dr. Amy read? Was this like sticking up your finger to that counselor?

No, I think what I learned from that was I'm going to prove her wrong. I mean, I was accepted to every school that I applied to. So that was that was heartwarming. I was accepted to law school. That was heartwarming. And that was also very unique and talk about a professor that changed my life. He was the one that recognized that I was having a problem towards the end of the semester of the first year. And I responded to the question, but not the way I normally would have responded two months before three months before. And he said I don't know what's going on. But I think you're having either hearing problems or something I did. I had already started losing my hearing again. But this time it was uniquely different. I had a tumor. I did not know because that was part of my hearing loss because I don't feel discomfort. I don't feel pain. So that's an autoimmune issue. And he was absolutely correct. And he saved my life. So I did end up being transported to Loyola. And he did he saved my life because of that conversation. So teachers can do really good things, too. So I think it's important to balance that and when When you talk about being intentional words absolutely matter. And again, I learned that from Dr. Brogan, we're on the East Coast words, man,

I want to know, you're going in really thinking about teachers and thinking about words mattering. What advice would you give to teachers when we're looking at identifying and meeting the needs of students with different abilities? And we speak to educators broadly, K to college, really fundamentally, meeting the needs of students? Doesn't matter about the age, correct?

It does not.

So what, what were some things that you treasured that you wish every one of your teachers could have done or done better?

I think when someone realized that I had an attribute that was of benefit, if they would have highlighted that, because I was, I was an excellent speller, I enjoyed reading. But I found that I read books that I wanted to read, but wasn't school. I mean, I wish they would have encouraged that sooner. For the reading component, I think I have turned into a better writer. And that was one of the reasons I went for my doctorate was, so I could improve my writing skills, because I felt even as an adult, I missed some opportunities. And I was still laid in learning. And if people could have been relevant to what was going on in the world, or in my life, or in my parents like to get to know me, because I can remember missing, missing fractions. So I'm now in a school, I'm in seventh grade, and not understanding fractions. And I can't, I went home crying that day, because I didn't understand fractions. And my father literally sat down with a, with a cocktail, and grabbed a second glass of you would take a sip and he's like, Okay, this is full, this is what? Take a slap. Okay, this is three quarters, but I had to visually see it, to understand what I was doing. And that also was what helped me with statistics, the instructor recognized that statistics was not math. To me, it was a picture, it was a language. And I got so I think, taking the time to learn a little bit about the student, and I think always calling them by name.

Uh huh. I would totally believe I totally believe in that, as a professor, I would download all the pictures of the students before class, so that I could speak directly to them by name, they are always amazed, like, how do you know how do you know who I am? And it does something to that relationship. Right away. I want to move away from that a little and talk about how fortunate we are to have you here and Governor State University. I want to know from you, you know, what attracted you to Governor State University. And tell us more about your position as Chief of Staff. Because it seems like now you're able to use all of those skills that you have developed, even get to use some of your math skills. I imagine. I mean, because we've gone from doing budget from for HOA all the way to millions and millions of dollars. So it's like a accumulation where you get to use all of your skills. So tell us why GSU and tell us more about your position.

Well, it's interesting because one of my very dear, dear friends is from the village of Matteson, right over here, and everyone in other parts of the state called Matteson,

Matteson. You're a Matteson person. Yes.

And we became really, really good friends and I was just always so impressed with her. And she went to school here in the 70s. And then she went on and now she's a mayor and she's very involved politically and and we kind of I think grew up together through the Illinois fire police commissioners Association, but I was always impressed when I walked in the neighborhoods down here when she was running for election. And then, and really felt a part of the community when I walked her neighborhoods. And so I was always impressed with GSU. And when Dr. Green had applied for Governor State University, I met Dr. Green at a university in Wisconsin where she was very well lived. She just did amazing things at the university. And she ultimately was the Interim Chancellor, at the University where I was. And we worked on several projects that were very, they were in the media. Some of them were challenging, some of them were not as challenging, but we managed and took care of some very unique situations together. And so we we were able to collaborate on some very highly challenged, highly charged, highly emotional issues, and we navigated it very, very well. So I really respected Dr. Gruen. But when I found out that she had applied, or was going for the position here at GSU, I said, you need to know some of the people that I knew. And I said, this is where you're going to find home. And I just knew her well enough that she would find home here, that sense of belonging that I think everybody wants. And so this is home for her. And even though I worked in Wisconsin, I always stayed in Illinois, and Illinois, the Chicagoland area is home for me. And I love that GSU is committed to offering an exceptional education, they offer access to everyone. It's an inclusive environment. And this is a place where otherness is accepted. It is home to me. So that's, that's probably me in it in a nutshell. And it's interesting, because what do I do? I think I'm a bridge builder. And I pull things together. And so we're working on the President's Advisory Committee for access and abilities. So and so now I think I have several members who are the right makeup for that program. So the charge for that. So I'm excited to share that with you, Dr. Joi. And I just found out some people on Friday and Saturday, actually, at a function and silver cross hospital. So So it'd be nice now that I think we're ready to move forward with that project. So I think Dr. Green, and I think the leadership here has the commitment. And this university is to me, the gold star, it is the gym, not from the Southland, this is the gym, and it sets the bar in the state of Illinois, in and beyond. And that's why I'm here. It all, it all melts together here. And I get to meet with people like you and Amy.

I think that's why we are all here there is a sense of belonging. And even when we are interacting in informal spaces, or formal spaces, they don't seem to look that much different. They are characterized by that collegiality, and that mission, that we're all in there in the work together, building that culture of community. And I think that you are a fantastic addition to GSU and what we strive to achieve.

Well, thank you, I appreciate that. But I when I received the call from Dr. Green, I was very anxious to meet the leadership here. And I was so impressed with everything. So impressed. I mean, this campus is the communities that are being served. This is it. And this is to me that microcosm of the global environment of what we're doing and where we're headed. And it's so relevant today.

Before we end this conversation, are there some new projects or some pieces of information that we might share with our listeners about what's going on at GSU? And what we can look forward to as far as new initiatives or ways to engage with our community?

Well, I think through Dr. Green's leadership she is poke she has I mean, she has pulled together a leadership team. That to me is above reproach. is diverse. It is just the intellectual side, the totality of thought, in every project that we embark on is amazing. So I would have to say that we're now looking at how do we address the entire community. And with that, it also involves the Board of Trustees in involves faculty, staff, and employees, students. And so how do we get information out to everyone on campus? And how do we get them engaged, to really understand what's going on behind the scenes, while so many of the decisions are, you know, at the cabinet level, and move up to the Board of Trustees, and then it's like a rippling, it goes out to everyone. But sometimes we want people to know what's going on sooner rather than later. So they know what's going on. So we're looking at doing a committee of the whole, so that instead of having the board of trustee meetings, and small little committee meetings, we'll have a committee of the whole so people can stop in during the day at when it's of interest to them. So they can come in and listen to maybe we're going to go for the Baldrige Award, which is one of the things that we're looking at. Also, we want to look at, we're obviously always in the mindset of the Higher Learning Commission. So accreditation, Robert and I are working towards the pooling information for the strategic plan and how that how we in this area, affect and impact positively the economy of the area. So we're working on that project, there are so many things that are in the hopper, you know, Carnegie, there's just so many good things that we're doing that I think we need to get that message out to a much larger constituency, because people need to know what we're doing. People oftentimes are in their own little silo. And we really want them to understand there are so many good things that are going on behind the scenes. So the Committee of the Whole as a way to do that, because then more people can see what's going on. And the decisions that are being made with the Board of Trustees.

And your position didn't always exist. So I think you are the perfect person to share that message. And this is just your, you know, in talking to you. It's just so much value in believing in yourself. Right. So believing in yourself, and the value of education. That's one of the topics, we're going to actually talk to Dr. Greene about, you know, the quality of a college education, and how having a sense of belonging and finding where you belong, how that's opened up so many doors for you. And, you know, like I said, You're you have so much diverse experience, because you utilize your skills, and you aren't afraid to go from here to there to there to where you can share all of your skills and all of your gifts. I really appreciate you being here at Governor State University, you are such an asset.

I think education is the great equalizer. Yes. So I have to thank my older sister for that too. Because, you know, there's no, there's there's the fear of failure, right? That there's also a fear of success. Yes. And in in she recognized that when I was getting close to finishing my dissertation, because how could I be smarter than my sister Diane, who is a doctor? And so, so there's the there, but the reality is this, you have to believe in yourself, and you have to believe in their own self worth. Absolutely.

I think those are great words to end by. And I we can't talk that. So I appreciate you being with us today. It's been a great conversation, and I look forward to more conversations in the future.

Well, thank you very much for having me. And I am just so honored the work that the two of you do. I pale in comparison. So thank you very much. You are amazing. Thank you.

Thank you Dr. Crawley. Have a great day.

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

We appreciate Governor state universities work behind the scenes to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi