➡️ SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/@makeworknotsuck?sub_confirmation=1

Layoffs suck. But what if they could be the best thing that ever happened to you?

Nobody wants to hear, "We're downsizing."

But getting laid off doesn’t have to be the end - it could be the start of something better.

In this episode, we break down:

✅ Why layoffs feel like breakups (and how to recover fast).

✅ The 8 ways to bounce back and turn job loss into opportunity.

✅ How to rebuild confidence, network smarter, and land an even better job.

Whether you're facing a layoff or want to be prepared, this episode will change how you see career setbacks.

Comment below: What’s the worst layoff experience you’ve seen?

Subscribe for more ways to make work suck less.

📌 Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro

1:07 - Layoffs – What Just Happened?

1:43 - Types of layoffs

4:24 - A spicy take

5:24 - Step 1 (Immediately Update Your "Career Story")

9:45 - Step 2 (Reactivate Your Network - Authentically)

13:12 - Step 3 (Clarify What You Really Want)

14:39 - Step 4 (Ramp Up Your LinkedIn Game)

17:22 - Step 5 (Take Time to Rebuild Your Confidence)

22:53 - Step 7 (Upskill Strategically)

29:03 - Step 6 (Evaluate Your Finances and Resources)

36:18 - Step 8 (Consider Entrepreneurship)

40:37 - The Layoff Wheel

45:43 - Culture

52:05 - RECAP

56:57 - Turning Layoffs into Career Wins

57:44 - Important

➡️ Go ahead and hit that like button!

Welcome to the make work not suck podcast.

Today, I wanna talk about layoffs. In my opinion, layoffs are like breakups. Everyone's had a few. They always hurt, but sometimes they can set you up for the thing you really wanted in the next chapter, but that doesn't mean they're easy. And let's be honest, whether you're Elon, who's trying to shrink the entire government and fire hundreds of thousands of people through doge or a, a tech worker who just lost their job in a corporate downsizing, it still sucks.

And today we're diving into how to make lay layoffs, not suck, bounce back quickly and come back better than ever.

Getting layoff can feel like it's the end of your career. Right. But I think that's what we wanna talk about. Like it could actually be the beginning of something better and we're gonna break down eight actionable ways to bounce back and turn layoffs into a launchpad.

Sometimes the layoff that seems so devastating is exactly the push you need. Don't let your job breakup keep you from finding your career soulmate. Oh, career soulmate. I like that.

That's, that's gutsy there. Let's go with this. So under over a hundred thousand government employees have been affected by recent mass layoffs. Right?

Yeah.

Driven driven by Doge. Many of them had mere minutes to clear out their desk while others, like health and human services and the USDA, face confusing reversals where their termination status was reversed after being laid off, and it just created chaos. So, I mean, let's just talk about the sucky part of how layoffs can can just be chaotic, and then there's also the part of, like, leaders driving these chaotic layoffs.

Yeah. I think there's there's probably different kinds of layoffs. Right? Different, a different spectrum or a spectrum here that maybe we need to clarify. I think that on one end of the continuum is probably people who've been let go for a reason, right?

You've done something unethical. You've done something that is not okay. HR is probably walking you out the door. That's probably not what we're talking about so much. I would say in the middle are probably those layoffs for call, for performance, right?

You weren't a good fit for the job. The job outgrew you, you know, for whatever reason, those ones are hard, but that's maybe another category. And then there's, I think there's just this chaos maybe on the other continuum or other end of the continuum where there are broad sweeping decisions being made that don't really have any sort of, fine tuning for who's being impacted. It is just, you know, massive broad sweeping decisions. And you can just be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get caught up in that.

And it has nothing to do with how good you were at your job. You're just kind of in the wrong place at the wrong time, but hearing about what's happening with those right now, I think the ambiguity would be the worst, right. To not know what's really going to happen. Like if you get caught up in something that sucks, usually the industry knows usually it's not too hard to bounce back. But with just this huge massive amount of people are kind of being let it go, but maybe not like what what the heck do you do with that?

Well, I mean, again, layoffs just suck in general. Right? And you're you're taking off like the the downside or I'm sorry, downsizing or the the you deserve to be fired, you know, reasons. Right? Yeah.

But I I think in, like, some of these cases, some of these big corporate, you know, enterprises, they they announce these layoffs. Hey. We're gonna lay off 10,000 people over the next year. Mhmm. And people don't know what's going on, but at least they have a little bit of, like, it's coming.

I mean, I I I'm looking at one of these cases right here. Like, here's a twenty four year old from, you know, health and human services. Got a cold email over the weekend. Literally just like, your job's terminated. Goodbye.

Now I guess you could kinda say, well, we knew Doge was coming, but it's I mean, you gotta think about each government department is like a different company. That's that's like just saying, hey. Fortune 500, we're gonna lay people off somewhere. Right. Yeah.

That's not helpful. Yeah. The the ambiguity is is definitely a a a a big problem in layoffs, and and here's a spicy take for you. Ambiguity and layoffs. Isn't just unethical.

It's leadership malpractice.

Oh, I like that. And I agree. I think that if your people are shocked that they're being laid off, you've not really done your job well as a leader. People should not be blindsided by a layoff now, you know, massive market shifts. Okay.

Maybe when, because everybody's surprised, but if the leadership team's known for a long time and the employees get blindsided, that means the leaders are not doing their job. Right. Oh, let's go through eight ways to make sure that layoffs don't suck or at least don't suck as much and how you can get your career back on track.

So the eight ways to bounce back from a layoff.

Absolutely. I'll go first. Number one, I would say it is important if you use a, if you've experienced a layoff, it is important to rewrite your story from victim to hero. It is very easy when you've ended up on the wrong side of that conversation to view yourself as the victim, to feel like a victim, and then to build a story that frames you as the victim. Somebody once said, it's not so much what happens to you.

It's the way you explain what happens to you. And if you frame yourself as a victim, it's much harder to get somebody else to hire you than it is. If you frame yourself as a hero, right. And hero doesn't necessarily mean that you were the guy who saved the day. It could be just as simple as here's what I tried.

Here's what didn't work. Here's what I learned from it. Even something that kind of a spin can help people understand that look bad things happen to all of us, but do they have a good attitude? Did they learn from it? And are they better now than they were before they had that experience?

That's really what most hiring managers are looking for because most hiring managers know that people can get stuck in bad situations or be in the wrong place at a wrong time. But if you're gonna blame everybody else, that's not somebody I want on my team.

Well, and keep in mind, if you make yourself the victim and you go into a new job and you're you know, I'm the victim, they terminated me, yada yada yada, if they call your previous employer for, you know, your rehireability and this, that, and the other, you're gonna get exposed pretty quick. I mean, reference checks and reviews, I mean, that's part of, you know, HR recruitment. So you're better off, you know, again, telling the story straight than trying to make yourself the victim of it.

Yeah.

Now in the sense of, like, a mass layoff, I think just just again, mass layoff. I was cutting the layoff, you know, is what it is. So I'm I'm, you know, bettering myself and looking for a better career.

That happened to me. I was working for a fortune 500 company. It was on a huge strategic project. Harvard business school was writing a case study on this project and it just got out of control and earnings came up and the CEO was under a lot of pressure. And so they just cut the whole program and laid off a lot of people.

And I was one of them and I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the good thing for me was, is that that was in the news. And so when I told people, oh, I was on that project. They're like, oh, I know what you've been working on. Like you wouldn't be on that project.

If you were a scrub, I think I've got an opportunity for you. So I didn't really have to hide that one or spin that one because it was public knowledge and it didn't really ding my reputation at all that I had gotten laid off.

Yeah. So don't be the victim. Be the hero of the story.

Oh, but I will say, hold on before we go to the next one. Here's a good note. That organization handled that layoff very well. They came to us and said, we're shutting down the project. We're gonna move it to Canada.

Some of you will be offered jobs in Canada. Some of you will not. Those who are not, you have ninety days to find yourself another job. You're welcome to come into the office. You don't have to come back again, but you've got ninety days.

And so we all had a significant runway to find our next thing. And they're like, if you find a job internally, we'd love to help you let us know. We'll try to, make that happen. If this is goodbye and you're going to go elsewhere. We're sorry, but this is what's happening.

So there was zero ambiguity. And as hard as that was, everybody I know who lost their jobs still has good things to say about that organization because they handled it so well.

That's that's actually good insight. I mean, if you are a, a, a leader or a manager that is in control of some of these layoffs, like, there's a good example of how to do it well.

Yeah. It was done very, very well.

Next one, number two, reactivate your network authentically, which so I think is is key there. You know, reconnecting without being desperate. Think coffee chats, not job request. I think the one thing is is as soon as you get laid off, you know, there's that panic of, okay. I gotta figure out where my next job is.

And especially if you don't have the the ninety day runway, if you're given a very short runway, you know, you're gonna be quick. I think sometimes people get desperate to reach out to people and say, hey. I need a new job. Can you help me? I think what you'll find is if you just authentically connect with people, like, hey.

You know, I've been let go of my job. I'd love to catch up with you and with coffee to to tell you what I'm looking at, what I'm going for, and and and see how life is going with you. You might find more opportunity, and you'll get a better connection with that person than if you're just desperately looking at reaching out to get a job.

I find most people wanna help, but they don't wanna be put in an awkward situation. Right. So if you can make it easy for them to help, and like you said, Hey, looking for my next thing, can I buy you a cup of coffee? Share with you what I'm looking for and see if you might know somebody who's looking for me. Right.

Because remember there are, there are great employers out there looking for people like you. Right. It's a little bit of a dating game. So rather than saying, Hey, do you want to get married? Do you know somebody who wants to marry me?

Right. Super awkward. Just say, Hey, here's what I'm looking for. Do you, do you know anybody? And, and that's a much easier ask.

It doesn't create that awkward pressure for them. If they're like, look, I don't know anybody like that. Okay. No harm or foul. Enjoy your latte.

But if they do. It's an easy introduction for them to say, Hey, I think the two of you guys would have a good conversation and now they've been helpful without having to go through the awkwardness of, do you have a job? Would you hire me, please? Let's get married now.

Well, it and you're more likely to get a, no, I don't have anything. Good luck. Versus again, having the, you know, going for the coffee chat and having the conversation, it might be, well, you know what? I was talking to so and so, and there might be an opportunity. Let me just email them and see if that can connect you to.

Yeah. I have been in this situation more times than I care to admit and very quickly realized that this binary I need, you know, do you have a job? Do you not have a job? I need a job. Do you have a job like that is a, is a very bad way to frame this transition in your career.

In this moment, I think it would be better for you to say, here's the things I'm really good at. Here's the problems I love to solve. Who do you know that has these kinds of problems? Because that's a much broader conversation. They may or may not have an open requisite to hire, but that might not be what you need right now.

You could be doing a contract job. It could be a part time ten ninety nine thing until they can really get to know you. And then like, yeah, we're going to make a budget for him. So don't get caught up in this. Do you have a job?

Do you not have a job reframe the conversation as here's the problems I solve. Here's the things that I'm good at. Who do you know that needs somebody like me?

Well, and what you just said, you're really hitting on, on number three, clarify what you really

want. Oh, yeah.

So take that one.

Clarify what you really want means a couple of things. One is, I think that anytime there is a break in employment, you have to take some time to reset. You've got to take some time to, think about what it is that you really liked about your last job. Think about what you hated about your last job and spend a little bit of time thinking about what that next job would need to look like. Right.

More of the good stuff, less of the bad stuff. You've gotta be able to take that with you to your networking conversations, to your next interview and be able to articulate. Here's what I've done. Here's where I've really succeeded. Here's where things have not gone so well.

Here's what I've learned from that. And here's what I want to do next. And the people that demonstrate that level of self awareness are going to be much more successful, both networking and interviewing, but you're not going to know that if you don't spend the time to do your own homework. So gotta spend some time, maybe take a couple of days and. You know, whether it's journaling, talking to a friend, whatever that is, but really figure out what it is that you want to be doing next and position your networking and interviewing to set yourself up for the job you really want, not just the job that gets the cash flow, as fast as possible.

So that leads us to the next one. Ramp up your LinkedIn game now. If your LinkedIn profile is still five years old, then you are invisible.

Yeah.

You need to go in there and update it yesterday because that is I mean, your LinkedIn network is gonna be where everybody's looking. That's where you're gonna make connections. That's where people are gonna go, well, tell me tell me what you're looking for, what you've done, what you did. People can go look at your LinkedIn profile. And if you still have, you know, the the missing profile photo and you've got gaps in your employment history, like, you just haven't updated it or your profile's behind, you're invisible to people.

You're invisible to recruiters that are recruiting on LinkedIn. You're you're invisible to, other, you know, people that are just searching LinkedIn. Like, you're not coming up in searches. And especially those people that you're reconnecting with, you're not giving them a tool that they can pass on to other individuals like we were talking about earlier. You know, that person may not be the person who has a job for you, but they may refer you to somebody.

They're not gonna refer you if your LinkedIn profile is, you know, a decade old.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. We've got all these points, but I I start to see them tie together. One of the things that I've done that I think has been very helpful for me in my layoff experience is to go back to the people I've worked with and say, Hey, what do you think I do? Well, we've worked together.

You know, what would you say are the one, two or three things that I do uniquely well? You can't ask that to everybody, but if you've got some friends, some people that you work closely with, that's really, really helpful information. A because you can help. It can update your, your LinkedIn profile with that. Right.

Would you be able to post that on LinkedIn for me? But also it helps you understand where you can really add the most value And, and that kind of, feedback can also help you find your mojo again. Cause getting laid off can, be tough on the ego and gathering some positive feedback from your past coworkers is a good way to kinda help get your swagger back.

So I like what you just said because that's gonna tap into the next bullet. But I also wanna say, especially on the LinkedIn profile, is request, reviews. Because you know you can have, like, your previous boss and coworkers and whatnot write reviews. If you've got positive reviews on your profile, especially if you have more than one or two, but if you have a, you know, half a dozen dozen of them, I mean, that also looks really good on, you know, for for prospecting and and HR purposes. But like you just said, it could you know, doing that exercise can can help you feel good, especially get those positive reviews back.

The next one on the list is, it's time to rebuild your confidence. So it sounded like it sounded like you gave an exercise to start bouncing right into

it. Yeah. That's that's one good way to kinda find your mojo. One of the things I do, this is embarrassing, I have a kudos file. And so anytime I get an email that was like, Just positive affirmation about something I did or some impact.

I had something like that. I just drop that in my kudos file or I'll forward it to my personal email and drop it there. I go back and read that. You know, when I take a couple of hits on the professional front and I feel like I'm a failure and I, I'm not good at anything, going back through and reading some of those emails can really help recenter me on. Okay.

I'm. I'm not perfect, but I'm also not worthless. I'm somewhere in between. And here's the things that I do well.

So So part of me wants to make fun of you for that, but that's actually really smart. I mean, you know, keeping a a Databoy folder where you can, you know, get the hats on the back and you pull them back out. But I I think at the same point, you're right. That is actually, probably more mentally healthy. And and if you're in a bad situation, pulling out those positive, reinforcements of great jobs you've done in the past can help you level set.

So, as much as I wanna make fun of you, that's actually a really smart idea.

I think it's easy, At least for me, when I've been in bad situations, when I've gotten let go or laid off or whatever, it's really easy to spiral downward, right? There's usually financial pressures involved. There's a little bit of shame or embarrassment involved, and it's really easy to end up in a dark place. And I know I have landed there multiple times where you just think I'm. I'm good at nothing.

I'm a total failure. My wife's going to leave me. I'm going to end up living in a van down by the river. And you're not going to interview well, if you're in that kind of a head space, like you're just, nobody's going to want to be around you. Nobody's going to want to hire you if that's the way you're, you're thinking about yourself and about life.

So you've got to find a way to get your swagger back and reminding yourself of the wins that you have had in your career, the things that you've done well, the clients that have given you praise and attaboys, the bosses who've given you promotions, like you've gotta go back and replay those things for yourself. So you can find that confidence Because if you smell depressed and desperate, no one will hire you.

Well, you know, what's funny is I started out saying I wanna make fun of you, and then I looked over on my oh, god. Just grab it. On my bookshelf here, and and this is literally the same thing. Right? Like, here's a project team I was on, and I've got this Mhmm.

You know, award of of of this team of excellence and all these things that we did, and it's, like, that's the same thing. And I didn't even think about this until you said it. We keep trophies on ourselves. Like, if you have kids in sports or you were in sports and you got the trophy on the wall

Yep.

You you keep those trophies because, one, you're proud of the work you did, but those are also kind of the reminders of the things you did in the past that were great. Like, that's actually really solid advice. Why shouldn't we have trophies of our successes in our careers? Yeah. Those trophies are those rewarding emails.

They're the referrals or I'm sorry, the the recommendations and reviews on LinkedIn and, the kudos. I I actually love it. That's that is a fantastic way, you know, probably taking this a step further. If you have been laid off and you're kind of in that that dark void moment and you're trying to figure it out, maybe this is a good time to build that, like, find those emails or get those reviews or do those things to go, like, no. This is what I'm capable of doing.

I mean, unless you're just a horrible human being, which I'm pretty sure that's not most people we're we're talking about at the moment, You've had successes in your job, and so don't let the current layoff blind you from what you're capable of. And I love this quote right here. You know, confidence sells, desperation repels.

Yeah.

So I honestly, that we kinda stumbled into a a golden nugget there. I mean, I I think that's a great way to rebuild your confidence.

One of the things that I've done in seasons like this, because I've I've had multiple, and some of them for me is just being self employed. Like, I'll have a client and then that client engagement will end and. You know, I'll be between gigs for a little while. And even that can feel like a layoff because the cash isn't flowing in. So I've been in that situation a lot.

One of the things that I've also found very helpful is going and soliciting feedback from people that you've worked with before and say, Hey, I'm, I'm in a transition. I'm looking for some feedback. What are three things that I do? Well, what are three things that you would recommend I work on getting better at? Right.

So it's both that positive affirmation. That you need in this, in the down, season of life, but also those development opportunities. Right? What are the things that might be blind spots for me that got me fired from my last job that I need to work on your HR? Department's probably not going to tell you the truth.

So asking a couple of coworkers, what do I do? Well, where do I need to focus my improvement efforts can both help your attitude and help your development.

So I love that. That's another golden nugget you just said right there. So I'm gonna skip number six and go to just tap on number seven before we go to six. Right? Okay.

So number seven is upskill strategically. Mhmm. What you just mentioned there is by pulling out the, like, what I do well and what I could improve, if you're going on the next and, well and, actually, this goes back to your career story as well. So, I mean, it's several of these, your authenticity, updating your LinkedIn game, and and your your career story. But if you ask those those questions, what you did well and what you can improve, and when you're going to the next job, and, you know, they're always gonna ask you, like, okay.

What do you do great? Yeah. Everybody can always hit the great things. Most interviews today, they go, okay. But tell me what you don't do well.

Mhmm.

If you can come to the table and say, yeah, I asked my peers about this, you know, a week or so ago or, you know, after I was going through this whole process, and I found out that I'm not really good at these things, and so I'm studying this book Yeah. Or course or this, that, and the other to get better at it. I'm recognizing my, you know, I might have a deficiency here, so this is an area of improvement for me that I'm focusing on.

And I've already got a plan in place, and I'm already working on it.

One that is showing a level of confidence because you you're you're putting it out there. You're changing your career story. Right?

Mhmm.

And then you're you're upskilling yourself, you know, strategically, which is number seven. Again, you can see how these are all starting kinda compound together to to really help yourself out, but it takes a lot of guts. It takes a it's really hard to ask you know, it's really easy to ask what I do well. Mhmm. It's really hard to ask what I don't do well.

The key thing is is when you ask that question, you gotta be prepared for the feedback, and you can't take that feedback and go, well, they just don't know what they're talking about or, oh, they're wrong or I mean, not all feedback is great feedback, but at the end of the day, if they're giving you some feedback, there is a level of truth to it. Mhmm. So then take that truth with the with the proper grain of salt and then use it to drive, you know, strategically forward and and use it to build your confidence.

Yeah. There's a lot of tools right now. I mean, just about anything that any peer or client or former manager could say that you don't do well. You could throw it into Google and say, how do I get better at this? Or put it into chat GPT.

How do I get better at blank? And there's going to have be a dozen courses. YouTube channels. Like, this just the day we live in right now is so prevalent with just so pregnant with information. It would not be hard to improve on whatever they tell you is your improvement opportunities.

So let's keep going with this one, and we'll come back to the one we skipped. So upskilling strategically, what else does that mean? I mean, we just kinda gave you one for asking feedback, but what other things can you strategically do to upscale yourself?

I think there's a lot of ideas. Like, sorry, my brain's just kind of exploding with with upskilling. If there are certifications that would be beneficial for your, for your industry, for the kind of roles that you want. Like, let's say you're really good at managing details and you're like, Hey, I think I, you know, I was an executive assistant. I think I want to be a project manager.

Great. There's tons of project management certification classes that you can take that would a. Get you a little closer to it and say, Hey, is this really something I would like to do? Or am I just kidding myself? And then b, it qualifies you more to compete for that job.

So I think that's just one, whether it's, product management certifications, project management certifications, any sort of technical, certifications, learning, new skills, programming languages, familiarity with new software packages, any one of those things can make you more valuable to your next employer. And as long as they're moving in the direction that you wanna go with your career, I think there are strategic upskills.

Yeah. Definitely. I think anything you can do, you know, maybe maybe it's even, like, I think I wanna get into this. I wanna try this. I I think if you can get yourself into a boot camp, an online course, a certification, or if you can renew a certification, maybe you had, that lapse because you didn't need to keep it current or, you know, something's evolved.

I mean, anything you can do, to invest in yourself will only help you bounce back higher than you were before.

I would say another way to upskill strategically is go find the person who has the job you want and ask them for their advice.

So that's another coffee chat type component. Right? Find find find and you know what? That could lead to opportunities. That's, that's going back to to, number two, you know, reactivate your network authentically.

If you're in that desperation mode where you're, you know, I I need a job versus doing what you just said, I want your job. What do I need to do? Not only will they give you the advice, or they should, they're a good person to give you the advice, But they might even also be able to say, hey, if you can get this certification, I can introduce you to or, hey, if you can or maybe if you take this or a junior position and you can work up to it, you never know what opportunities might, might open by just taking this strategically upscaling path.

That one's been a very successful conversation for me, is to go particularly to somebody who's a little bit older and has a little bit more experience in their career and say, Hey, I'd like to be sitting in the seat you're sitting in five, ten years from now. Here's where I've been. Here's where I am. What would you recommend that I do over the next five years to get from where I am today to the seat you're sitting in? And you know, whether those are books, whether those are jobs, whether those are certifications, or, you know, whatever that might be, that's golden advice from somebody who is where you want to be.

A %. Alright. So let's move on to the next one. This is the one we skipped. It's evaluate your finances and resources.

I think a lot of times when people get laid off, which is totally natural. Right? Like, this is not a criticism. Is the first thing we do is we we panic and figure out how we're gonna pay the next bill. Mhmm.

I think the biggest thing is is, you know, hopefully, you got a severance or there are tools out there like unemployment. It's okay to claim unemployment. That's what it's there for. So it's, you know, don't panic, assess your savings, you know, your severance, unemployment options. There there are a lot of tools available.

And if you can again, just don't don't panic and jump to conclusion, but just kinda assess everything, figure out what your living expenses is. Maybe you need to cut a Netflix, subscription or two or, you know, maybe make some some short term sacrifices, but, you know, just assess everything and then make a plan, and then do, like, all the other steps we've been talking about, and you'll find that you'll bounce back much faster. Any any other thing you wanna put on that one?

I would say and your financial advisor is gonna kill me for this, but I would say it would be better for you to take a little bit of money out of your four zero one k to pay your bills for a month. Whatever that's gonna be for you is is not going to destroy retirement for you and an extra month of breathing room financially for you to figure out what you really want and go find a good job. Like, you're gonna be so much happier with that over the next twelve months than jumping to the first offer just because you're scared of cash flow.

Yeah. I I think that's that's a very solid point. The worst thing you can do is instantly go try to get a job because you don't wanna take unemployment and you don't wanna touch the retirement fund. Because now you may get lucky. You may find a solid job or it's a parallel move or it's, you know, doing the exact same thing you did for a different company and it may last you six months to a year and be a transitionary job, you know, that's that's fine too.

But to your point, if you have the opportunity, to do so, you know, get the get the, you know, leverage a month out of the four zero one k, take unemployment, and you might find that you find a better job, a better company. And I think a lot of people keep in mind is, like, culture is huge right now. Mhmm. Everybody wants to work for a company that has a culture that matches their vibe and their style and what they're looking for. If you make the knee jerk decision, you may work for a company.

You may have a paycheck, but you may hate the culture. And so rushing to get a job may make you, you know, more, unhappy, more stressed, or more, mentally unhealthy, just from making that knee jerk reaction.

If you gotta take $10,000 out of your four zero one k, oftentimes those have, loan clauses. So you can borrow 10,000, put it back and it actually doesn't hurt you. You're you don't have to pay a penalty or get hit with the taxes. But even if you do over the next three years, it would be better for you to be in an organization that you really love working for. Doing things you're really good at.

You will make more money over the next three years, then an extra month at a job you hate. So I'm actually glad that we flipped the orders on these a little bit because I think

I think, the one we just talked about, you know, evaluating your your financial resources, I think goes right along with number eight. Yeah. It's time to consider entrepreneurship. So if if you have an idea and you've been thinking about launching the business, is it is it time to launch the business and and take a leap of faith? If you've got a decent severance package or you do have a unsaved that you can rely on and you've been working on this idea and you do kind of the other steps we talked about, it may be time to step off and start your own gig.

I started my steering ventures business while I was still employed at a fortune five hundred company. It was a side hustle. I enjoyed it a lot. And when I unexpectedly lost my job, it became my full time hustle. And I've kind of gone back and forth a few times between taking full time roles versus being independent.

So somewhat of a reluctant entrepreneur, but I think that idea of a side hustle is always a smart idea. But when you have these kinds of transition events in your life, I think it's an important question to wrestle with, you know, should my side hustle become my full time hustle is now the time that I've got the resources, the energy, the opportunity, to go for it because those, those opportunities don't always present themselves. Right. That's not common. And so if you find yourself in that moment, look seriously at it because this might be the time that your side, your side hustle becomes your main hustle.

So I'm I'm gonna go forward against this one.

Okay.

I think where a lot of people get themselves in trouble is they might have, you know, sixty to ninety days of of severance runway, and they have a business idea. They haven't vetted it. They haven't really tried to do anything with it. They've got this idea. And I've seen this happen a number of times where they they they start with the idea.

They get about seventy five days into it. They've got no revenue. They've got nothing. And now they've got fifteen days of cash left, and now they're back to the panic to the job. So Right.

I I love the idea of entrepreneurship, but I think you've gotta if you don't have a a six to twelve month runway where you can try this for ninety days to see if you can generate, opportunity, and if it's not gonna work, then you've gotta fall back to to look for another job. If you don't have that, then that may be go ahead and look for that next job, find something that's gonna help you build your idea or give you experience in what you wanna do, and then jump into entrepreneurship later. But if you do have that runway, then you should seriously take a a look at it because it it may be that jumping point. It may be the time for you to seize that opportunity.

I like that. I I I'm a huge fan of entrepreneurship. I think that many people do themselves a disservice by thinking about this in binary terms. Right. I work for myself.

I work for somebody else. I think that there's a lot of opportunity to de risk this decision by walking that line where you're employed by somebody else, but you're working on something on the side that can really help you hone what the product service really is, who are your customers like get as close as you can to revenue before you shut down your. Full time primary source of income. And I think a lot of people make the mistake. They're like, I'm going for it.

And it's like, I love the guts, but that's not smart. There are smarter, easier, less risky ways to test entrepreneurship besides just giving the double birds to your boss.

Oh, boy. Double birds to your boss. You know what? That might make a a good podcast topic for the future is is when is it time to start your own business?

Yeah. That'd be helpful. How do you how do you know it's the right time to start your your dream job?

Alright. So before moving on to the next segment, I just wanna recap these, eight real quick. And that was, number one, immediately update your career story. You know, rewrite the story from victim to hero. It's reactivate your network authentically.

Don't just go for the desperate, I need help get a job, you know, authentically reconnect. It was clarify what you really want. You know, understand the job you want to have and and the role you wanna take. Number four was revamp your LinkedIn game now. Get your LinkedIn profile updated.

Don't let it sit stagnant. Number five was take time to rebuild your confidence. The tagline in that one was confidence sells, desperation repels. So do take the time to to build your confidence back up. You know, hang tight reflection.

We had some good, ideas in there. Then we we skipped over one and we went to number, well, I'm gonna call it number six now, is is upskill, strategically. You know, find online courses, boot camps, certifications, find find ways that you can, gain new skills that make you more competitive in the marketplace. Number seven was evaluate your financial resources. Don't panic.

Evaluate your assets and see what you actually can, like, how much your runway is and what you can do and leverage tools like unemployment. Mhmm. And then number eight was consider entrepreneurship. If the stars align and everything's looking good, you can use everything from the other seven, points to figure out if it's time to jump take the leap, take the jump of, a leap of faith and start your own business. If it's time is right, you've got the network, you've got the opportunities, then, your layout could really be that springboard.

What was our opening opening line?

It might be the, the path to your career soulmate.

There you go. It it might be time to start the business. So Here's what I would

here's how I would sum it up. I think if you go straight from being fired to trying to get your next job without a break, without a pause, you're not gonna make it. If you've been, let go. Pause, take a deep breath, figure out what you really want, find your mojo, and then go after it. But but don't chase the next job out of desperation or you and your next employer will be disappointed.

That's solid advice. Just say it one more time. Just let it sink in. Say it one more time so it sinks in.

If you go straight from being let go to interviewing for your next job, you will not succeed. If you have been let go, pause, reflect, learn from the situation, find your mojo, and come back better than you were before.

I love it. I love it. You know? And and now now I'm gonna rabbit trail. Okay.

You know what that sounded like? Mhmm. Jocko Willock. Good. Did you the job you wanted?

Good. Good. Now you got time to rebuild. Got laid off? Good.

Good.

Now you can upskill until so I had to start that business. Get on the attack.

I mean, it's it's easy to poke fun at that, but I can't think of a time when I have lost a job or a client that I wasn't able to go find something better in the next round.

Now it's abundance versus scarcity mindset. Right. If you got this with a scarcity mindset, it's it's not gonna end in a in a positive way. It may it'll be okay. It's not gonna be horrible, but it's only gonna be okay at best versus if you go with this with an abundant mindset, got laid off.

Good. Now I have the opportunity to find something better, to better myself, to have a better career, to to get a better financial. And the thing is if you take that abundance mindset and you do the the the things and some of the things we've talked about, you will have a better career. Yeah. There is opportunity out there.

Everywhere is growing. I know there's there's adversities in the economy and, you know, what's going on with the the government jobs, but we actually added jobs this past month. It's like a hundred and either a 20 or a 50,000 new jobs were added

to The

United States this past month even with all the chaos going on. There's plenty of opportunity out there. Alright. Let's move on. We have this next segment, the layoff wheel.

How nice.

What is the layoff wheel, Daniel?

Well, so the the wheel, we've talked about this in a lot of episodes. This idea that every organization and really every individual has these four dimensions, right? And you draw them in a wheel visions at the top. You always start with vision. You go clockwise from vision to journey, to culture, to results.

And just as a reminder, it's important to always start with vision and always go clockwise through that sequence. But it's an interesting idea to apply that framework to layoffs. How do those two intersect?

I think the key thing is is anytime you're faced with some uncertainty change, right, you you kinda gotta go through a process. And this is why we start with vision. Like, take a step back and figure out, like, what is what what's the sense of direction? Where are you going? Where do you want to go?

You know, this really clarifies your goals and helps you get dialed in. You know, what's the belief of what you can do? What do you what do you believe you want? And if you can Mhmm. If you can start that, if you can write that down, then now you've got a clear next step to get you to the journey, the path that you need to get there.

You may not know the path while you're writing the vision. That's the goal, is if you know what your vision is, then you can start to to to write a journey. If you go straight to to journey or you go straight into results without really having a clear goal, I mean, that's definition insanity. You're just you're never gonna get there.

So I'll tell you a personal story. I was a director of product at a Fortune 500 company, director of product management, technical product management. And I had the most fun in my career for about two years. I was functionally leading a startup within a Fortune 500 organization. Had a blast.

Small team, moving fast, breaking stuff. It was awesome. I got promoted and put over a $50,000,000 P and L. And in my head, my dream job was VP at this company. And through a very odd set of circumstances, I ended up no longer employed at that company.

And this vision question became really important to me because I started going back and looking for director VPs of products at fortune 500 companies. And it wasn't until somebody pointed out to me. They're like, is that really what you want to do? Because you seemed a lot happier when you were leading a small team of two engineers, and a project manager and a, you know, and a sport guy. Like you seemed a lot happier there than you were with a team of a hundred people and a $50,000,000 P and L.

And you do whatever you want, but it just seemed like you like that one more. And why are you gonna go take a job that you don't like when you could maybe go take a job that you do like? And it wasn't until somebody pointed that out to me that I began to realize, okay, you know what? I mean, I could do the big company thing. And I was decent at it, but I had a lot more fun when it was the three of us, you know, just sitting around a card table, writing requirements on sticky notes.

Like that's more fun for me. So just because you've been in a particular path and your vision has always been this role or this company or this industry being, let go kind of forces you to reevaluate some of those things and say, what is my vision for my career? What do I want? Do I want to be the CEO of a fortune 500 company? I used to say yes to that.

I would say no to that today because I do not want that job, but it wasn't until I had to ask these kinds of vision questions that I got that clarity.

I like that. Yeah. I mean, if you're chasing the, if you're chasing the result without a clear vision, you'll never really be happy. Yeah. I mean, that

And for me, it was the result of the title and the paycheck. Like, those were the two things I wanted, and I'm willing to be miserable for them. But once you're presented with the option, it's like, well, what if I could get those and not be miserable? Wouldn't that be better?

Precisely. So I think that's where the the the vision is key, and then the next step of that is journey. Once you got that through your journey, you can map out the path to get there, and you can Yeah. You'll know where, like, okay. If I rock down this path, if I go too too far left, like, I'm I'm straying away from my vision or I go too far right.

So it really helps you map out the path, and then that, of course, next step is to actually make a path. Make a plan. Don't just get an idea and then go straight to I expect the results.

Right.

You still have to map out, like, how am I going to get there? What's my steps to get there? How am I gonna, you know, measure progress and and and get in that direction? And then I found this one interesting. The the third part of the wheel is culture, you know, the social emotional connection part.

I love what it says right here. Layoffs reveal the real values of your organization.

Yeah. It does.

If they if they're laying off recklessly, is that even a place you want wanted to stay?

Yep.

So I think when you're looking at this, it's like, what do you value? Like, there's there's there's the vision, the belief, and and what you wanna be. There's the journey and the steps of how you need to get there. The next step is, like, who do you wanna work with and be alongside? Mhmm.

And I think it's interesting. If you take this from a business perspective, there's a, there's a a company I've worked with that's done some restructuring layoffs and totally butchered the culture side of it

for for

just a couple of individuals. For for for two to three individuals, it was just handled horribly. And the culture of the company has had a negative ripple effect, and more and more people are resigning because of this exact thing here. It revealed the true colors of the organization, and it was pretty clear that the core values that were on the wall were not what the company actually believed. So in on a personal note, if you can define what what the behaviors that you want to live by, the principles you live by, and you can find that in a company you're searching for, you're gonna be much likely to have Absolutely.

I mean, be successful in the job, excel in the role, love the company you work with, love the people you work with, etcetera.

The other thing I would add on the culture dimension is when it comes to job searching, networking, interviewing, there's a really important question to ask yourself, which is who can help me along this journey? Who knows the kind of person that needs to needs to hire me. And that's may sound like a silly question, but, but I've asked that question to a number of people. And what I have found is that I rarely know my next boss, but I already know our mutual friend, right? Somebody who's going to connect me to my next boss or somebody who's going to connect me to my next client.

And the clearer that I can articulate who I'm looking for, the easier it is for our mutual friend to connect us. And so when, when I lost my job at a fortune 500 company, you know, I started calling my friends at other fortune 500 companies because that's, who's going to know those jobs. Right. And they were trying to be helpful. And some of them got me some interviews at big places, which is great, but it wasn't until I realized that the person I'm really looking for is running a 5 to $10,000,000 business that I realized I need to reach out to completely different people who are going to help me find that job.

And so spend some time thinking through what is that job that you really want. What's the title, who's the hiring manager and who knows those people, Because the the people on the journey with you, the relationships that you have, that's gonna really define your success in this transition season.

That's all really good. Who's gonna help me do this? Which I think goes back to the the the points we talked about earlier. You know, if you're just shocked getting things out there, then, you know, who do you want to be, who do you wanna work with, and who do you need help from evaluated from that standpoint? I mean, again, you'll find that that all really aligns and matches with with who you are and who you wanna be.

Yeah. It's kind of the vision to to culture or sorry, the journey to culture transition. Who can help me? Who do I wanna be? But then lastly, the results, right?

The results are to some extent obvious. We all need a new job, right? If you're in this situation, you gotta get, you gotta get paid. Right. But I think there could be more there than just, than just the paycheck and and being employed.

Right? And having health insurance. I think that it is it is becoming more and more apparent to me that the quality of your work environment heavily influences the quality of your life. If you're in a job, you hate working for a toxic boss or a mercenary company, what, you know, whatever your situation might be, if that's awful, it will spill over into the rest of your life. And most people would take a little bit of a pay cut to work in a job that they like with people they enjoy working with and a boss who treats them well, then maximizing income in a job that you hate and working with people you despise.

So I think we need to remember that results are not this binary. I've got a job. I don't have a job. I make X. I make Y there's more variables here.

There's more dimensions to this problem. And yes, you need a job. You've got to be able to pay your bills and feed your family. Get that. But if you can find a job that's really more aligned with your passions and strengths and values, you're going to be more successful and happier.

Over the long haul than just taking the job that pays

the most and has the earliest start date. I like it. So your results, your tangibles don't

Mhmm.

Always have to be strictly money. Money's table stakes. And actually, you said a few things in there. It's funny because we've we've talked about how people will take a a lesser pay for a more aligned company. Mhmm.

And there's there's even been several times we've gotten backlash for that. People say, just pay people more or no people really want the money. There are people that are results driven that just went with the money. Yep. But I've I've actually had people come from higher paying jobs and take the lesser paying one.

I mean, it it's I don't have, like, an exact count, but it really does happen. And I think that comes down to those people have really realigned the vision of what they're looking for. They figured a path career or career path that they wanna be on and what their career journey looks like. They've identified a culture there they wanna work with, and the results kinda take care of themselves.

Yeah.

It's kinda like Simon Sinek. Right? You go why, how, what. If you if you if you stick to the why and you focus on, you know, how you're gonna get there, the what takes care of itself.

Yeah. Yeah. Generally, it does. Maybe recap. Vision, reevaluate where you really wanna go with your career.

What what are your career objectives? What would success mean for you? Then go to journey. How are you going to get to the job you want? What pivots do you need to make?

Thirdly, culture. Who can help you on this journey? And what kind of people do you want to work with? What cultural, values are important to you and would be ideal for you to work in an organization that shares similar values? And then lastly, results.

Being in financial stress is never fun, but I have seen how layoffs can actually accelerate people's career growth by forcing them to change and adapt and their income and their experience both rises faster because of these forced transitions. So I don't think they're necessarily always a bad thing. There's oftentimes a lot of good that comes from layoffs.

I just want to wrap up. Let's let's hit this turning layoffs into career wins. Layoffs aren't a career verdict. They're resets. A notable study showed that 25% of layoffs of tech workers use the opportunity to start their own business.

So I think we've given a lot of advice through the the whole the whole segment here. We talked about ways to level up and ways to look at it, etcetera. But let's as we start to lay on the plane here, turning layoffs into career wins.

I like the story of Harriet mills. She turned one of her or her layoff during the financial crisis into an opportunity to start her own business called wine and design rather than panicking because she got laid off. She took a breath and started, you know, painting and wine drinking class with some girlfriends, saw a huge opportunity and turned it into a business that now has 80 locations. I think that's a fantastic story. I've heard of so many stories, even in the tech sector where people have had good jobs, high paying jobs, jobs that even enjoyed and ended up unemployed for whatever reason and use that as an opportunity to launch their entrepreneurial dream.

And I think it's an awesome, awesome thing.

Here's a spicy take for you.

Alright.

The job you the job you just lost might have been the comfort zone holding you back from the success you deserve. Oh, I like that. I'll throw a story in because, like, this was actually kinda what sprung the, you know, like, the creation of Odysee and, you know, the the further development of or core and, even this podcast. You know, 2019 was was running a company. It was one of one of the founders, and the the board decided it was my time to to go.

Like, it was eighteen months before plan, and they decided to accelerate it, and they decided to accelerate it without telling me, which is okay. It was okay. It was it was it was the right thing, but that, that's what's was the springboard for a lot of things I do now. And so I think I really resonate with that statement. It it was I was in the comfort zone of that, running that company.

And and honestly, that's kind of what accelerated my exit out of there is because I had gotten comfortable with the job, and they needed to we we needed to get to the next level. Mhmm. It was it was actually a perfect, jump off point. It was a perfect, you know, I'm lucky that they had I had a great package with the company, so I wasn't, you know, messed up financially. I was still one of the founders.

I still had my shares, you know, still you know, all those things, but I wasn't an employee in the business anymore. And it really was the thing that was holding me back, and it has, it has been the accelerator of success, since then. So I I totally resonate with the statement.

Yeah. You and I wouldn't be working together if you were still with that company.

That is so true. And we were doing phenomenal things, and it was a great company. And and it's now on its its third exit. And it's like kinda watching your child, you know, go off to college, graduate high school and go off to college. But I think, again, it was it was getting out of that comfort zone.

It was really holding it back. And, again, all the opportunities that came from it, didn't panic, didn't I mean, how you and I met. Right? If I was panicking looking for a new job after that happened, I wouldn't have flown to to Atlanta to have a to crash your birthday dinner when I didn't even know you. So I forget it was it was following all the advice from all the components before, and it's landed so many great opportunities.

Yes. Absolutely. Totally worth it. Alright. So take us home.

Alright. So layoffs are rough. They're not the end. They're often painful beginnings to a much better chapter.

Naval Ravikant says your real resume is just the story of your suffering. And I think that if you take layoffs with the right mentality, they can help you become a better version of you, and they can help you make the next chapter better than the last. If you've got your own layoff horror stories or, you know, maybe a a positive layoff story, please drop them in the comments. We'd love to hear them. Your resilience might actually help inspire somebody who's going through this season right now.

And if you like the episode, you know, please like and subscribe. As always, the more we can share, you know, the more we can help, the better we can make the world a better place, the the more we can make work not suck. That is our goal. And if you know somebody that's, recently going through a layoff, been laid off, or, in in one of these situations that, you know, put layoff could be coming, share this episode. Yeah.

Hopefully, there's some good advice in there where they can be proactive, and it'd be nice to take you know, if if people could take steps before being laid off to be proactive, they may have an even better, springboard or runway. So until the next episode. Thanks. Make Work Not Suck. Our podcast that talks about exactly that, our process, vision, journey, culture, and results.

We present real world business solutions that make the difference. Our goal is to make work not suck, hosted by Ryan Hodges, co host Daniel Steer. Join us each episode and make work not suck.