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Reflecting on Race, Bias, and Continuous Learning
Episode 154 • 16th July 2024 • TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective • TonyTidbit ™
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Episode Audio Link: https://podcast.ablackexec.com/episode/In this episode of 'A Black Executive Perspective' hosted by Tony Tidbit, guest Courteney Mitchell discusses the importance of confronting racial issues, embracing discomfort for growth, and engaging in open dialogue. Courteney shares her personal...

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In this episode of 'A Black Executive Perspective' hosted by Tony Tidbit, guest Courteney Mitchell discusses the importance of confronting racial issues, embracing discomfort for growth, and engaging in open dialogue. Courteney shares her experiences with racial awakening, from her upbringing in a predominantly white small town to her enlightening interactions in college. The episode also examines societal and historical contexts, including insights from a Psychology Today article on how white and black families discuss race. Tony and Courteney emphasize the necessity of empathy, active learning, and challenging personal biases to foster inclusive environments. Key highlights include practical advice on staying educated about diversity, the significance of open conversations on race, and a call to action to learn, empathize, share, and stop discrimination.

▶︎ In This Episode

  1. 00:00: Introduction and Initial Thoughts on Race
  2. 00:37: Podcast Introduction and Host Welcome
  3. 01:23: Discussing the Psychology Today Article
  4. 03:12: Guest Introduction: Courteney Mitchell
  5. 03:51: Courteney's Background and Personal Story
  6. 06:20: Reflections on Race and Personal Awakening
  7. 07:14: Impact of Conversations on Race
  8. 08:33: Growing Up in a Predominantly White Town
  9. 11:04: Realizations and Conversations on Race
  10. 16:55: Understanding Historical Context and Personal Growth
  11. 21:54: College Life and Broadening Horizons
  12. 22:39: Involvement in Student Organizations
  13. 23:05: Learning from Diverse Backgrounds
  14. 25:30: Confronting Uncomfortable Truths
  15. 27:46: Open Conversations on Race
  16. 29:00: Recognizing and Overcoming Biases
  17. 33:06: Staying Informed and Educated
  18. 36:36: Final Thoughts and Advice
  19. 42:27: Call to Action: L.E.S.S.

🔗 Resources

Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

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Transcripts

Courteney Mitchell:

So I think a lot of white people don't think about race,

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:

and I think that's a real problem.

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:

And I think that until You're

willing to get, it's like fitness,

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:

like not to bring it back.

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:

Cause you know, we all know I love to work

out, but like, if you don't, if you're

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working out and you're not uncomfortable,

you're not getting stronger.

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And I think the same holds true for like

life, like you have to sometimes put

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yourself into uncomfortable spaces in

order to get stronger, to grow, to learn.

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And I think that a lot of people don't.

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People don't like to be uncomfortable.

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Tony Tidbit: We'll discuss race and how it

plays a factor and how we didn't even talk

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about this topic because we were afraid.

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BEP Narrator: A Black

Executive Perspective.

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Tony Tidbit: Welcome to a Black Executive

Perspective podcast, a safe space where

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we discuss all matters related to race,

especially race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

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And so we're live at WNHU 88.

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7 on the Richter dial at

the University of New Haven.

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We want to thank them for hosting

a Black Executive Perspective

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podcast in their fabulous studio.

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Really appreciate the partnership.

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Go Chargers.

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And for you, don't forget to check out

our partners, CODE M Magazine, whose

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mission is to save the Black family

by first making Saving the black man.

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Check them out at CODE M magazine.

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com.

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So in the article, why it can be

so hard to talk about race that

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was published a few weeks ago in

Psychology Today, Dr., Monica T.

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Williams and Sonia Faber.

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discuss the complexities,

complexities of racial discourse.

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They state, and I quote, "When it comes

to talking about race, there's a big

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difference between the way white families

and black families approach the subject.

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Studies have found that white children are

typically taught from a young age not to

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discuss race, that it's something taboo.

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Something we shouldn't talk about.

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But the truth is, ignoring the problem

of race doesn't make it go away.

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It only reinforces existing

systems of racial inequity.

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On the other hand, black families

don't have the luxury of ignoring race.

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They know that their children

will be profiled and treated

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differently because of race.

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From others often as early as preschool,

they understand that talking about

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race is not only necessary, but also

empowering as it allows them to understand

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and navigate the world around them.

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It's not that white people are bad or

racist, it's just they are socialized

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not to notice these problems.

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Most have been taught to see the

world in a certain way, and that way

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doesn't include an understanding of

the ways racism and bias cause harm.

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White people are taught not to

see the racism that is right in

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front of them on a daily basis."

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Today.

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Our guest, Courteney Mitchell,

will share her personal journey

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navigating the complexities of racial

discussions, her experience with racial

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awakening, and the ongoing process

of educating and self reflection.

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Courteney Mitchell, welcome to a Black

Executive Perspective podcast, my sister.

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Courteney Mitchell: Tony, thank

you so much for having me.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, thank you, Courteney,

for coming on and talking about, you

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know, a very I will, I will say a topic

that we need to talk about a lot more.

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So I appreciate you coming on and

willing to jump in and share your story.

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Um, but before we jump in, let's

get a little bit about you.

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Tell us where you're from, where

you're living at, and a little

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bit about your background.

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Courteney Mitchell: Sure.

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Uh, I've lived in Massachusetts

for most of my life.

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I'm currently in Boston.

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Um, mom to two little cats.

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Uh, they're, they just turned six.

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Um, Adopted them from the rest.

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We rescued them from the mean

streets of Newark, New Jersey.

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Uh, Allie and Ava.

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Um, I work in advertising sales

in full time for my full time job.

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And then I have side hustles.

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I teach fitness, uh, around

Boston and, um, do production

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work on large scale events.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay.

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Awesome.

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And look, you got your

Boston gear on, right?

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Celtics, you know, going

for the win tonight, right?

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They're going for the championship win.

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Courteney Mitchell: Well, Tony, I,

it's 6 1 7 and then what a more, you

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know, could there be a more perfect

day for the Celtics to win banner 18?

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I was actually in the building on 6 1

,:

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um, in game six, so I, I've given up,

go, I used to go to all of the games.

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Uh, now I, I watched from the couch,

you know, Once you get older, the 9 p.

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m.

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start time doesn't really

work out so well anymore.

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No, it's so true.

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Tony Tidbit: It's so true, right?

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But you're going to be up all

night, because that's your team.

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You're going to be rooting for them,

even if the game started at midnight.

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So you'll be there, right?

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Courteney Mitchell: And

they're so I'll be there.

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They're, they're, they're, they're

very fun to watch this year.

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It's a, you know, you get a, I feel

like you get like attached to teams.

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Like I'm definitely very attached to

the, the 08 guys, you know, Paul Pierce,

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Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Rondo, Perk,

um, and you know, the cast of characters

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that, that helped them win then.

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But this team is really, really

fun to watch when they're on

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there, they play great basketball.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, let's see.

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Um, you know, look, I love the Celtics.

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I love their team.

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I was, um, I like Luka Donic a lot.

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So I was rooting for them just

because they're in the beginning.

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I thought from the

beginning Boston would win.

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So tonight could be the night, you

know, where, you know, Bean town is,

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is, is, uh, you know, popping champagne.

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So we'll see how it plays itself out.

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Courteney Mitchell: Well, you know,

Tony, I, champagne is one of my

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other favorite things and I got some

cases in my closet down here, so.

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Tony Tidbit: All right, my friend.

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Well, listen, let me ask you this,

obviously we've talked, why did you want

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to come on a Black Executive Perspective

podcast to talk about this topic?

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Courteney Mitchell: Well, I, you and I

used to work together at Warner Media R.

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I.

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P.

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Um, and I think when George Floyd

was murdered in:

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didn't really know what to do.

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And you started those

conversations on race, which gave.

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People from all walks of life within

the company, a venue to be able to

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have these difficult conversations

and learn how to have these difficult

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conversations with other people.

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And, um, I really miss those.

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And I was really happy to be able

to sort of come on here because

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I've, I've honestly, Tony, I've

learned so much from you in the

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years that we've known each other.

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Um, so I, I'm really happy to come

on here and sort of talk about.

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Um, the impact that all this learning has

had on me personally and professionally.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, thank you, my friend.

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I appreciate that.

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So you ready to talk about it?

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Courteney Mitchell: Yeah.

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Let's dig in.

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Tony Tidbit: All right.

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Let's, let's talk about it.

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Right.

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And you know, one of the things when I

read that article in Psychology Today, um,

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it was, you know, it really, I think it's

something that I would, I want, hopefully

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our, all of our audience can go check

out because it's really very eye opening.

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Um, and it's something that

we've dealt with for centuries,

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um, our fear to talk about race.

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Right.

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And, you know, I remember going back, um,

you know, back when the George Floyd thing

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happened and, you know, I got everyone

together and I was just listening to

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people and, um, and you know, people were

saying, I didn't know this was going on.

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You know, I wasn't aware of these things.

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I didn't have a clue, and these were

white people, our white colleagues

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that were saying these things.

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And I was looking, I didn't

say nothing, but I was looking,

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I'm like, how don't you know?

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Right?

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You can see these things, but

as, you know, um, you know, Dr.

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uh, Williams and Dr.

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Faber stated, if, if you're brought

up not to talk about race, it's taboo,

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and you're not, uh, nobody's teaching

you to be aware of these things.

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You wouldn't know and I know

people like that's not true.

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They shouldn't know.

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No, they wouldn't know because these

things don't affect them Right.

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So Courteney, let's let's

back up a little bit.

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Tell us a little bit about where you grew

up You know, you know cuz look my wife

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She grew up outside of Boston, Maynard,

Mass, okay, which was a small town,

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which, you know, Maynard, Mass, right?

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And she said it was one

black family in a whole town.

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And she wasn't exposed to the

things that I was exposed to.

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So talk to us a little bit about your

background and how diversity either played

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a role or didn't play a role in your life.

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Courteney Mitchell: Yeah, so

I'm from a small town in Western

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Mass, probably not unlike Maynard.

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It's called Belchertown.

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It's a small town.

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It's halfway between Amherst where UMASS

Amherst is and Springfield, which used to

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be a crown jewel of a city in Western mass

in the early part of the 20th century.

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There was very little diversity.

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Uh, I can count on 1 hand, the

number of black people that

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I went to high school with.

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Um, and then I remember going to college

in, in:

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by, you know, black people, people

of different cultures, people from

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different countries, um, the, you know,

the international students, gay people.

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I mean, in the 1990s, that, that was.

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I mean, you were not, there were

two, you were either straight

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or closeted in the 1990s.

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There were very, I don't think

there were a lot of people that

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were really openly gay then.

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Um, and so I, you know, I was raised to

believe that, um, we treat everybody the

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way we want to be treated, regardless

of what they look like or, you know,

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disabilities or anything like that.

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We're just kind to everybody.

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And I really loved being thrown

into an environment where I got

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to learn about so many different

cultures and types of people.

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Um, going to Northeastern and

Boston, um, in the late nineties.

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Tony Tidbit: That's awesome.

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So growing up, uh, what was

the town you grew up in again?

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It's

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Courteney Mitchell: called

Belchertown, uh, you can see it if

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you're on the Mass Pike, it used

to be exit 7 and now it's exit 54.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay, so Belchertown, right?

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Not a lot of diversity, you can count

on one hand of, of the students in

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your high school that were African

American, what kids would be.

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So tell us a little bit about Belchertown.

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What was your idea about

race at that time frame?

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And I get it, your parents

brought you up, treat everybody

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the same, blah, blah, blah.

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And a lot of people say that, right?

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And their parents probably

did teach them that.

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But going out and experiencing and

seeing things can be totally different.

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So talk a little bit about your,

based on how you grew up, what was

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your awareness when it came to race?

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Courteney Mitchell: Honestly, Tony, and

I thought a lot about this when we were

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talking about doing this didn't really

I didn't I knew like my mom talked to me

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about when she was a teenager when Emmett

Till was murdered and how seeing the

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image of him on in print really impacted

her and made her, you know, a believer

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in the civil rights movement in the 60s.

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Um, but I didn't really, I didn't

really ever think about it.

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I mean, it was funny because like, I

think back now to like, in the 90s, like.

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Like the hip hop culture emerged.

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I loved hip hop music.

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I was into Tupac.

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I listened to like TLC SWV Salt N Pepa.

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I mean I can still rap every word

to Shoop I don't remember what I ate

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yesterday, but you put on that song.

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I know every word Um brandy monica,

like the music that I listen to

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Was very diverse, but I didn't it

from like an interpersonal level.

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I really didn't ever think about it

Like I said, it's so weird to say

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now like framing that now like what

kind of idiot is this girl like?

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But it just wasn't something that was

like On my radar at the time, like,

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I knew about the civil, I learned

about the civil rights movement.

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I learned about, you know, the civil

war and slavery and, you know, and

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it was 1 of those things where it's

like, oh, civil rights movement.

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We've everything got fixed.

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This is we're happy.

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Everyone's everything's great.

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And I think that, um, my.

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Personal awakening from, from that

came in like the tens when we started

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to have all of those publicized, like

Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Sandra Bland.

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Those were the things that really were

like, Oh, maybe everything is not fixed.

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And I remember thinking, seeing

some of like the Philando

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Castile shooting broke my heart.

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And I remember thinking if this is all

these things that are happening and now

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we've got phones to record everything,

how many things have happened in the

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last You know, 50 years that we don't

know about because we didn't have

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the technology to record everything.

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And that I, the thought, like, thinking

about framing it that way, I was like,

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oh, this is, this is definitely, we got

some, we have, we have got problems here.

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And then I think in that, at that time.

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You know, I, I started to look at

the spaces that I was in, like, my

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gym and, you know, the classes that

I was taking and my workplaces.

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And then I started to notice because

again, like, I was always taught.

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Oh, you don't see color.

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Like, and I'm like, well, that was when

I started to realize, like, you have

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to, you have to see color because if

we're missing color in these spaces,

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why and what do we have to do to make.

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This a more accessible,

comfortable space for everybody.

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And I remember having conversations

with some of my black friends and

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one of my best friends from college.

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I love this girl to this day.

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We are still very good friends.

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I remember her like, and people, this

is the thing, Tony, I don't think that

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people ever talked about this, but it's

also possible because I never asked.

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And I remember asking her

about her experiences.

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And she told me a story about

getting pulled over by the

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police, driving while black.

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And.

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The officer said to her, I could

do whatever I wanted to you and

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no one would ever believe you.

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And this is coming, this

girl is like Wharton Business

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School, like brilliant girl.

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And like to hear that she had

gone through that, I was floored.

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Then I started having conversations

with people at the gym who were like,

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Oh no, we've never felt comfortable

at this gym because of X, Y, and Z.

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And I was horrified.

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I'm like, well, what can I do to help

make this, Like, again, like the safe

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space for everybody because I don't

like we have this community here.

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And I mean, I think that looking

back and again, hindsight being

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2020 and framing it is, is that it's

really hard to be uncomfortable.

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And I think that thinking

about these things.

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Makes white people very uncomfortable.

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And I remember I was, I, you know,

I've I'm a member of the D.A.R.

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One of the reasons I joined the

was because I know it has a history

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of not being the most welcoming.

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And I think that you have 2 choices when

you're faced with something like that.

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You can be like, well, I'm not doing that,

or you can do it and try to change it and.

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I remember being in a meeting with some

of my DAR sisters and they were like,

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what does race have to, I'm like, well,

it has everything to do with it because

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you have to look at like the whole system.

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Tony Tidbit: So court court

real quick though, just so

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everybody's on the same page.

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When you say DAR, what is that?

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Courteney Mitchell: That is the

Daughters of the American Revolution.

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So, the D.

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A.

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R., it's a great organization.

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The way it was framed to me, it was like,

it's a networking group for history nerds.

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To be a member, you have to trace

your lineage back to, um, someone

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who fought for the patriots

in the American Revolution.

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Which, you know, And that's the other

awakening I had is that, like, thinking

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about genealogy and that was my pandemic

hobby in:

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a disadvantage because you run into the

brick wall of slavery where there were

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no records, there's no records for black

ople for the most part before:

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And that's one of the things

that I'm hoping, you know, to

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be able to have an impact on.

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I'm doing some of their genealogy

courses to be able to help, um, use

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DNA to connect people when there's an

absence of historical paper, paper trail.

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Um, but I think that again, it goes

back to the fact that people just

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don't like to be uncomfortable.

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And I think that's why, like, that's

one of the reasons I had blinders on.

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And Some of these things just and

again, like, I have a very diverse

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friend group of all, you know,

me, I'm friends with everybody.

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Um, just having conversations with

people is really what opened my eyes.

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To the fact that this is not fixed

and that this is still a problem.

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And then when you delve further

into it, you read about the race

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riots that we never learned about in

school, um, Tulsa, Houston, East St.

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Louis, like all the stuff that happened

in the:

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in office fanning the flames of, um,

Racism by, you know, re segregating

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things have been unsegregated.

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He re segregated a lot of

things in the government.

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And, um, you know, it's, you have

to pay attention to these things.

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And that's, I think one of the cool things

about what you're doing is I think from

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you, I learned that you really have to

like, and I'm, I'm a, I'm an, I'm an,

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a very intellectually curious person.

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I love to go down a rabbit hole.

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So, you know, when stuff comes up, I

love to read about it and research it.

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And, um, I think that's one of the

things that is really important to

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getting more people to come around

to the fact that things are not fixed

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and there are things that we can do.

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To, to, you know, help, help.

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Right.

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Bring light to some of these issues.

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Tony Tidbit: Right, right.

329

:

So, so number 1, thank you, Courteney.

330

:

And just, I want to let the audience

know, um, this is, this is Courteney.

331

:

She didn't have 8, uh,

cups of coffee today.

332

:

This is just who she is.

333

:

She's, she's very high energetic.

334

:

Individual, right?

335

:

And so number one, I love her

a lot and I'm so glad that

336

:

she's on and she's sharing.

337

:

I just want to back up because

you said a whole lot and I want

338

:

to back up a little bit, right?

339

:

But that's just who you are, Courteney.

340

:

So it's all

341

:

Courteney Mitchell: good.

342

:

No, no,

343

:

Tony Tidbit: it's just who you are.

344

:

So it's all good.

345

:

Right?

346

:

So let's back up because I want to, I want

to make sure we get back to the DAR thing.

347

:

And there's a couple other things, but I

want to go back just a little bit further.

348

:

Cause you said, your parents said, um, You

know, you're not supposed to see color.

349

:

Okay.

350

:

And again, going back to what Dr.

351

:

Williams and stuff said is that white

families teach their children not to

352

:

notice race, not to talk about race.

353

:

Right.

354

:

So when you say, you know, you're not

supposed to, even though, and here's the

355

:

thing, your parents, Um, sound awesome.

356

:

You said your mother talked about, um,

Emmett Till and she remembered that and

357

:

that, you know, struck a chord with her

and she, they brought you up to, to,

358

:

you know, uh, treat everybody the same.

359

:

So all those things are great.

360

:

There's that's awesome.

361

:

Right.

362

:

Cause there's a lot of families.

363

:

They don't even do that.

364

:

Okay.

365

:

But I just want to back up.

366

:

I want to just put a pin in here.

367

:

When, when your parents says.

368

:

don't see color.

369

:

And then going back to what Dr.

370

:

Williams and Dr.

371

:

Faber says is that white families are

taught not to talk about race, right?

372

:

And because they don't talk about it,

they don't see the racism in front of you.

373

:

So I want to, is there, do you think

that's a correlation in terms of your

374

:

mother saying, Don't, I mean, treat,

don't see color and then to your

375

:

point, you're not, you're, you're

not noticing a lot of stuff until

376

:

you went to college and stuff, even

though you are, you know, intellectual,

377

:

curious, you're a smart individual.

378

:

You love history.

379

:

Can you speak to that a little bit?

380

:

Courteney Mitchell: Yeah, I mean,

I think I don't necessarily know

381

:

if it was that or the fact that I

just grew up with no color like, um,

382

:

Belchertown and I think it's changed.

383

:

I don't go home very

I'm I have my parents.

384

:

So

385

:

Tony Tidbit: just to be clear, though,

so when you say when you say don't grow

386

:

up, you didn't grow up with any color.

387

:

You're basically saying you didn't grow

up with a lot of diversity around you.

388

:

Is that what you're saying?

389

:

Not

390

:

Courteney Mitchell: at all.

391

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

392

:

Courteney Mitchell: Um, and I think

it might have, it's probably changed.

393

:

I, I haven't, I don't, I don't not really

up on the demographics of the town now,

394

:

but in the nineties, it was very white.

395

:

Tony Tidbit: Right, right, right, right.

396

:

Well, tell me a little

bit about your friends.

397

:

Did race come up at all with your friends?

398

:

Or, you know, was there any,

you know, uh, derogatory terms

399

:

or phrases that were said?

400

:

Or was it just because there

was no people of color, they

401

:

didn't really even talk about it.

402

:

Tell us a little bit about that.

403

:

There

404

:

Courteney Mitchell: was no people of color

and we didn't really even talk about it.

405

:

Tony Tidbit: So you

didn't even talk about it.

406

:

Okay, okay, all right.

407

:

Yeah.

408

:

Go ahead.

409

:

Courteney Mitchell: And, and then you

contrast that, like when the George

410

:

Floyd thing happened, I remember we had a

call at Warner and I remember one of our

411

:

coworkers crying on the zoom and it made

me cry having to talk about how she talked

412

:

to her sons about dealing with police.

413

:

And that I never would have

even thought about that.

414

:

And I just remember being so floored

that this woman had to have this

415

:

conversation with, with her children.

416

:

White people would never have to have

that conversation with their kids.

417

:

How to, you know, That there could

be a possibility that I could go out

418

:

wearing a hoodie and a hat and and

get shot at like I would never even

419

:

thought that would never even cross

the minds of anybody in in my space,

420

:

Tony Tidbit: right?

421

:

And I

422

:

Courteney Mitchell: think that that's

the type of people had to have.

423

:

I was completely that

that really impacted me.

424

:

Tony Tidbit: So you were saying that, you

know, when you went to college, uh, it was

425

:

a rainbow coalition on paraphrase, right?

426

:

You were able to have friends from

different backgrounds, religions,

427

:

sexuality to hone nine yards and

it really broadened your horizons.

428

:

Yeah, and I think you told one story of

your friend, um, but what did you learn

429

:

out of that that you didn't learn when you

were growing up, um, in your town Belcher?

430

:

Courteney Mitchell: Well, I think

that, that I learned a lot about

431

:

different countries and backgrounds.

432

:

Like we had, I had friends that were in

the, um, The Indian Students Association

433

:

and friends in like the gay and lesbian

and a lot of the international students.

434

:

I was involved in the student government.

435

:

Um, I was involved in Greek life.

436

:

Greek life was pretty white,

although we did have the, um,

437

:

the NPC, we had the regular.

438

:

Panhellenic and Greek life.

439

:

And then we did have the, like, the alpha

cap alpha was on our, uh, sigma gamma row.

440

:

Um, and so I was, I mean, this

is, you know, me, I'm friendly

441

:

with everybody everywhere I go.

442

:

I'm like, I love to meet people.

443

:

I love to talk to people.

444

:

I love to learn about people.

445

:

Um, I just think I took it as a

learning experience to learn about

446

:

different people's backgrounds and

how they grew up, where they grew

447

:

up, what was different about where

they grew up versus where I grew up.

448

:

Um, and like just broadening my worldview.

449

:

I mean, at this point too,

and I didn't really travel.

450

:

I went out of the country once when I

was in high school, we went to school

451

:

trip to Costa Rica, and that was my

only time ever having been out of the U.

452

:

S.

453

:

And, um, so it was really cool to, like,

learn about all these different cultures

454

:

and read about all these different

cultures, places that I'd never been.

455

:

Right.

456

:

Um, I think for me, I just use it as

a learning experience and again, like

457

:

never not thinking, thinking about

like treating everybody equally.

458

:

Everybody, my mom always used to say like,

you know, you know, but by the grace of

459

:

God, you're lucky to grow up who you are.

460

:

You could have this, you know,

you could have grown up anyway.

461

:

And So I always just was, I

think my whole philosophy in life

462

:

is like, just treat, be kind.

463

:

Um, it's, it's takes the same amount of

effort to be nice as it does to be a jerk.

464

:

So why would you choose to be a jerk?

465

:

Um, I think that for me, like I

just used the, the learning about

466

:

different cultures to sort of,

again, just broaden my horizons.

467

:

I never thought anything like,

Oh, that person is from here.

468

:

Ew.

469

:

Like, yeah, I

470

:

Tony Tidbit: mean, you, you,

471

:

Courteney Mitchell: that was not in my,

472

:

Tony Tidbit: yeah, you, you've always

been a very open individual, right?

473

:

Let me, let me ask you this.

474

:

Um, yeah.

475

:

And I want to back up to the DAR thing.

476

:

Cause you said, and what, what,

and what does it stand for again?

477

:

Daughters.

478

:

Yeah.

479

:

Courteney Mitchell: Uh, the

Daughters of the American Revolution.

480

:

Okay,

481

:

Tony Tidbit: Daughters

of the American Legion.

482

:

And you said you, you joined,

um, you know, your history buff.

483

:

You said that, um, somebody said, Why

does race have anything to do with it?

484

:

Talk, tell us what happened there.

485

:

Courteney Mitchell: So, I was talking, I

can't remember what I was talking about.

486

:

It might have been my race

in the military thing.

487

:

Oh, or we were, we were having some sort

of conversation and I said, well, The

488

:

context of it, I don't remember, but

I just remember her being like, well,

489

:

why would you feel guilty about that?

490

:

It happened a hundred years ago.

491

:

And I'm like, I don't feel,

I don't feel guilty about it.

492

:

I feel badly that this happened

to this group of people.

493

:

And now they've been basically

disenfranchised for 150 years.

494

:

Um, and I think that a

lot of people think about.

495

:

You know,

496

:

I think a lot of white people

don't think about race and I

497

:

think that's a real problem.

498

:

And I think that until you're

willing to get, it's like fitness,

499

:

like, not to bring it back.

500

:

Because, you know, we all know

I love to work out, but like, if

501

:

you don't, if you're working out

and you're not uncomfortable,

502

:

you're not getting stronger.

503

:

And I think the same holds true for like.

504

:

life you have to sometimes put yourself

into uncomfortable spaces in order

505

:

to get stronger, to grow, to learn.

506

:

And I think that a lot of people don't,

people don't like to be uncomfortable.

507

:

People want to become,

people want to be happy.

508

:

I mean, who doesn't love, everybody

loves to be comfortable, but sometimes

509

:

you have to just get uncomfortable.

510

:

And I think that especially older people

of certain, you know, not to like.

511

:

Smirch, the, the boomers

or the silent generation.

512

:

But I think that a lot of those

people, the way that they were

513

:

raised was to like not talk about it.

514

:

And I think that's, that's

how my generation, I'm Gen X.

515

:

mm-Hmm.

516

:

. I think that's how we were raised.

517

:

We were, we didn't talk about it.

518

:

And then in my, I mean.

519

:

Our lifetime, you know, I was too

young for Vietnam, so I don't, I

520

:

don't have any recollection of that.

521

:

Um, we had like, you know, the,

the Berlin Wall came down, we had

522

:

Operation Desert Storm and Iraqi, you

know, Iraqi freedom in the early 90s.

523

:

And then we had 9 11.

524

:

We've, our generation, like, we

have had a very peaceful life.

525

:

If you think about it in context to

like other generations in history,

526

:

we've not been sent to, you know, go

die in a trench or, you know, to land

527

:

on a beach and, and face the gun nests.

528

:

Um, and I think that people

just don't like to think about

529

:

things that are unpleasant.

530

:

And I think that racism is one of those

things that people like to not think about

531

:

because it's not pleasant to think about.

532

:

And if you have, you actually think

about it, you're going to have like a

533

:

reckoning as to like how messed up it is

and how, like, like, I remember reading

534

:

about red line, red lining and, and the

ways that, um, black people have not

535

:

been able to build generational wealth

that puts them at a severe disadvantage

536

:

compared to, you know, white people.

537

:

Um, and it, like, how do we,

like, this has to be fixed.

538

:

Tony Tidbit: So Courteney, let me ask

you this, you know, when I started

539

:

the Open Conversation, um, on race

session at work, you know, one of

540

:

the things I wanted to do, I wanted

to get everybody to come together.

541

:

I wanted people to finally be in a

safe space where they can hear other

542

:

people's perspectives without, uh,

having to be, without being judged

543

:

or attacked or if the case may be.

544

:

And so, you know, we came

up with ground rules.

545

:

But the main thing I needed to do was

for me to be authentic and be vulnerable.

546

:

I needed to share my biases,

things that I deal with, right?

547

:

And you know, and I, and I, and I, every

human being has biases and I had my own.

548

:

And that was, you know, I

had to be vulnerable there.

549

:

If I'm looking for other

people to be vulnerable.

550

:

Okay.

551

:

For other people to say, aha, I got it.

552

:

For other people to say, you know what?

553

:

Okay.

554

:

I was brought up this way or I believe

this and you know what, I, I, I, I,

555

:

I'm open to learning more, right?

556

:

So I shared those things and one was

about the gay community growing up.

557

:

You know, hearing, being preached

about this is wrong, this is this,

558

:

this is that you're a young kid, you

grow up and you believe that and that's

559

:

what you run out to the world with.

560

:

Right.

561

:

So let me ask you this.

562

:

You grow up, you got a great, um,

family, you know, you are willing

563

:

to, you're open to, to all different

type of people, but you know, going

564

:

through your awakening, you know, Did

you recognize any biases that you had?

565

:

Courteney Mitchell: Well, I mean, I

grew up in the eighties and nineties.

566

:

And again, I think I said this

earlier, like in that time you

567

:

were either straight or closeted.

568

:

And I remember also having a little

bit of bias towards the gay community.

569

:

My mother shut that down right away.

570

:

My mom had gay friends, my

mom, it works in psychology.

571

:

And, um, she shut that down, but it wasn't

until I actually Met gay people and became

572

:

friends with them that I sort of and

that's the I think the common theme when

573

:

I've like looked at things When I meet

people and spend time with them and learn

574

:

about them The biases go away because i'm

like, oh, I like that person as a human

575

:

Uh, abraham lincoln had a great quote.

576

:

I don't like that man I must get to know

him better and I think that for me anytime

577

:

I trend towards being like, oh I I try

to think I try to see the good in people.

578

:

Um for me, I think as a You I, I

call myself a lifelong Masshole.

579

:

Um, I think that I do have a bias

and I, I, this is something I've

580

:

had to work on against people from

like rural Southern America, um,

581

:

particularly as the political divide

in this country has, uh, gotten wider.

582

:

Um, and when I, when I think about like

my first inclination, when I react to

583

:

something, Sometimes I feel that and

then I have to like take a step back

584

:

and sort of reframe my perception and

be like, okay, we're all Americans.

585

:

Everybody here had, this is the best

part about America is that we all

586

:

have the right to our own opinion.

587

:

I don't tell you what to think.

588

:

I don't want you to tell me what to think.

589

:

And I certainly don't want the

government to tell me what to think.

590

:

And I think that for me, like that taking

a step back or like, okay, um, similar

591

:

to you, like when you don't know about

something, there's like that fear there.

592

:

Right.

593

:

And you and I, we've talked about

that in the conversations on race.

594

:

False.

595

:

Um, what is it?

596

:

Tony Tidbit: False evidence appearing real

597

:

Courteney Mitchell:

evidence appearing real.

598

:

And, um, I think that a lot of

times, like, I'll like having that,

599

:

like, that was such an eye opener

when you did that session on fear.

600

:

And I'll think, okay,

is what is driving this?

601

:

And, um, I think that for a while

I had the same bias thinking

602

:

about the transgender community.

603

:

And I remember the conversation on

race we had, where we talked about

604

:

trans women in women's sports.

605

:

And that completely changed my

perspective, because again, like when

606

:

you actually delve into it and look

at the facts and talk to people, it's

607

:

not really that much of a problem, but

people like to, you know, Use fear to,

608

:

to make it a problem where there's none

to drive whatever agenda they're pushing.

609

:

And I think that for me with biases,

it's like trying to find a human

610

:

connection with somebody in that group

to make, it helps me understand that

611

:

group better and helps me again, shift

that perception to be coming, not coming

612

:

from a place of fear, but coming from a

place of like empathy and understanding.

613

:

Tony Tidbit: No, that, that is great.

614

:

And you know, that's,

that's the thing, right?

615

:

Is that You know, we have a bias

nine times out of 10 on something

616

:

that we've never experienced.

617

:

All right.

618

:

And then to your point, once you

experience, and that's the greatest

619

:

teacher is, is meeting new people,

meeting all different type of people

620

:

and learning from all of them.

621

:

Right.

622

:

And, you know, from that

standpoint, now you may not.

623

:

I may not like somebody because

I don't like their personality.

624

:

Okay.

625

:

They can be arrogant or

they can be this and that.

626

:

That's something totally different

versus I don't like this group of people.

627

:

Okay.

628

:

Just because somebody told me

something or because one person in

629

:

that group did something wrong to me.

630

:

Now I'm pretty much going to

label the whole group, right?

631

:

So, so I appreciate you

sharing that right now.

632

:

How do you continue to

keep yourself educated?

633

:

In terms of, because

it's a big world, right?

634

:

And nobody knows everything.

635

:

So how do you continue to stay

educated when it comes to diversity?

636

:

Courteney Mitchell: Well,

you know me, I am a voracious

637

:

reader and consumer of media.

638

:

I love the news.

639

:

I, I know that a lot of people in

America have news fatigue right now

640

:

because of the last, we'll say 10 years.

641

:

Um, it's, it can be exhausting

to, you know, it's not good news.

642

:

It doesn't make you feel good.

643

:

Um, sometimes all I want to do is

look at, like, Reels of people's pets.

644

:

Um, but you have, like,

we have to stay informed.

645

:

It's our job to, to stay informed.

646

:

So I love to go down the rabbit hole.

647

:

As I said, um, documentaries, uh,

books, uh, TV shows, movies, um, you

648

:

know, I, that is how I stay educated.

649

:

And I also, you know, again,

try to foster human connection.

650

:

If I don't understand

something, I ask about it.

651

:

Um, like when all that stuff was

happening in the mid tens with, you

652

:

know, Michael Brown, Eric Garner,

Sandra Bland, I had conversations with

653

:

my black friends, um, when the, the

situation in, you know, in the Middle

654

:

East right now with Israel and Hamas.

655

:

I have conversations.

656

:

I have come, I've met a random person

in a, um, a LinkedIn group who used to

657

:

be a member of the IDF and has since

like defected to the United States.

658

:

And I got on the phone with this

person and had a wonderful conversation

659

:

about what it was like and what their

feelings were on the whole crisis.

660

:

I, you know, have conversations with

my Jewish friends about how one of

661

:

my friends was with her daughter

in their small town in New York.

662

:

And there was an anti Jewish

rally, like what year are we in?

663

:

And like, just trying to have these

conversations, ask people questions.

664

:

And so that I can get a better

understanding of how people who may

665

:

be feeling marginalized are feeling.

666

:

And then, you know, one of the

things with all the situation in the

667

:

Middle East is, you know, a lot of my

Jewish friends don't feel supported.

668

:

And I think we, on one of our

last conversations on race, we

669

:

like our friend, Gab talked about.

670

:

And I like was crying like it when you

have these conversations and you can you

671

:

can come at it from the perspective like

put yourself in someone else's shoes.

672

:

I think that helps me now before

that conversation with gab.

673

:

I might have told you that.

674

:

I don't think that.

675

:

You know, the government after World

War One had a right to or after World

676

:

War Two had a right to give that land

away with her perspective sharing.

677

:

Like, I do believe now that the Jewish

people deserve to have a homeland

678

:

and these people have to get along.

679

:

And I think that little efforts,

you know, trying to just show

680

:

your support and and be an ally.

681

:

I think that was the other

thing after the George Floyd.

682

:

Uh murder like you can't be silent about

this stuff and just think that Silence can

683

:

be complicitness in in some of this this

stuff And if I don't come out after george

684

:

floyd, I felt compelled, you know me.

685

:

I don't post a lot on social media I

felt compelled to write a huge facebook

686

:

post about being an anti racist and

all the things that have impacted me

687

:

to make me Have that point of view and

I think that that's it's it's similar

688

:

Like you have to take a stand you have

to say something you have to you know,

689

:

have those conversations Transcribed

And, and make your friends, you know,

690

:

show your friends that you support them.

691

:

Tony Tidbit: That's awesome.

692

:

That is really awesome.

693

:

So thanks for sharing that.

694

:

So final thoughts, what, some of the

things, um, you know, give us some

695

:

final thoughts and what advice would you

give listeners who's listening to this?

696

:

All right.

697

:

Um, who may not be as enlightened

as you, who may still live in that

698

:

small town where there's not a lot of

diversity, who may still, may be afraid.

699

:

Um, because of all the things

that's pushed from a media

700

:

standpoint about different groups

and stuff to that nature, right?

701

:

So, and let's be fair.

702

:

There are people that's that, that way.

703

:

That doesn't make them evil or bad.

704

:

It's just, you know, they're not informed.

705

:

So what recommendations

would you give them?

706

:

Courteney Mitchell: I would say, listen,

have conversations with people, find

707

:

people to have conversations with.

708

:

We have the internet, like you can go

find anybody to have a conversation with.

709

:

Um, if you want to do it

anonymously, go on Reddit.

710

:

Reddit has forums for everything.

711

:

Um, yes, some of the people are trolls

and you got to weed out, weed out that.

712

:

I would say base yourself in fact,

always check the sources on things.

713

:

Don't just read something

and be like, well, that's.

714

:

That's fact, like make sure you're

getting it from credible news sources.

715

:

Make sure you're having conversations

with real people and be willing

716

:

to just listen without judgment.

717

:

So I know like we're human, right?

718

:

You can, someone can tell, like, I

remember being someone, a friend of mine.

719

:

In New York was telling me that

she had as a black woman had a hard

720

:

time finding a cab to stop for her.

721

:

And now Courteney, the fixer

is like, well, did you do this?

722

:

Did you?

723

:

And you can't ask those questions.

724

:

You just listen and you empathize

and you remember that your

725

:

friend how it feels this way.

726

:

It's how they feel.

727

:

You take that and, you know, I, I have

gone to New York with this particular

728

:

friend and gone out and gotten us

a cab because I, I know that she

729

:

doesn't feel comfortable with that.

730

:

And I think that, again, just

learning and, and being able to be

731

:

a good listener and being able to

approach situations with empathy.

732

:

Um, and then again, if you feel

like you don't like someone, try

733

:

to get to know it a little bit

better before you write it off.

734

:

There's always ways to find the

good in people and, or things.

735

:

Um, and remember that, especially

if you're here in the U.

736

:

S., like, that's the beautiful thing

about America, is we all have the

737

:

right to have Our own feelings and and

opinions and don't don't be judgmental.

738

:

I think judge don't judge like

lose the judgment that I think

739

:

would be if we could do that.

740

:

Um, but, yeah, I mean, learn, I go

down the rabbit hole visit museums.

741

:

I will say, um, if

you're in Washington, D.

742

:

C, the National Museum of African American

history and culture is probably 1 of

743

:

my favorite places that I've ever been.

744

:

And I have, I have.

745

:

Then twice for, like, 3 hours each

time, and I still have, like, half the

746

:

place to see, um, you the 5th floor

and you and I've talked about this.

747

:

There's an exhibit on black

people in the military.

748

:

And I went down a real rabbit hole

there and culminating in me, like,

749

:

visiting all these battlefields

and historical sites in Europe.

750

:

So I just like, be open to learning

and be curious and be kind, like

751

:

our old, our old boss, Tony used

to say, stay curious and be kind.

752

:

Tony Tidbit: Uh, well,

thank you, my friend.

753

:

And look, I really appreciate you coming

on and sharing, you know, not just in

754

:

terms of, um, the words, but how you

share with your passion, your energy.

755

:

Um, you know, I think this is something

that a lot of people can learn from,

756

:

and I really appreciate you as a person.

757

:

Um, and I know you go out and all

the people that you touch, they

758

:

feel the same about you, right?

759

:

Is that the energy that you bring,

the love that you push out there.

760

:

And, you know, I said this a long time

ago, um, life is like a boomerang.

761

:

Whatever you throw out comes back.

762

:

So Courteney Mitchell.

763

:

Thanks for appearing on a Black

Executive Perspective podcast

764

:

and sharing your perspective.

765

:

Courteney Mitchell: Tony, thank

you so much for having me.

766

:

You have, uh, you have changed my life

and my, my, uh, given me the ability

767

:

to have these difficult conversations

with people in a respectful way.

768

:

And I will forever be

appreciative of that.

769

:

Tony Tidbit: So I think it's

now time for Tony's Tidbit.

770

:

And the tidbit today is

771

:

Conversations on race can be

uncomfortable, but the only way to

772

:

improve our understanding and reduce

bias is through open dialogue.

773

:

honest and respectful dialogue.

774

:

And you heard that today,

Courteney Mitchell.

775

:

So really appreciate that.

776

:

So I want to remind everybody about our

new BEP segment, Need to Know with Nsenga.

777

:

You don't want to miss it.

778

:

It comes out each Thursday.

779

:

Need to Know segment by Dr.

780

:

Nsenga Burton.

781

:

Where Dr.

782

:

Burton is going to dive into

the timely, crucial topics that

783

:

shape our community and world.

784

:

You want to definitely tune

in to gain a unique insights

785

:

and deepen your understanding.

786

:

Of the issues that matter.

787

:

Don't want to miss this

every Thursday on BEP.

788

:

Don't miss this week's

Need to Know with Dr.

789

:

Nsenga Burton.

790

:

So I think it's now time

for our call to action.

791

:

Again, this is something that's

very important to a Black

792

:

Executive Perspective podcast.

793

:

We exist because we have this platform

where we can We want to have open

794

:

and honest discussion to bring people

together to heighten their awareness.

795

:

Our goal is to decrease

racism and all the isms.

796

:

So we're asking everyone, and this

is something that everyone can do.

797

:

It's something that you can control.

798

:

Incorporate our call to

action, which stands for less.

799

:

L.

800

:

E.

801

:

S.

802

:

S.

803

:

L.

804

:

stands for learn.

805

:

As Courteney said earlier, you want to

learn about new people, new perspectives,

806

:

history, things that you're not privy

to, to make you more enlightened.

807

:

E stands for empathy.

808

:

Once you've learned, you should

become more empathetic to other

809

:

groups and other individuals.

810

:

S stands for share.

811

:

We want everyone to

learn and be enlightened.

812

:

So you want to share what you

learned to your friends and family.

813

:

And the other S stands for stop.

814

:

Our goal, your goal is to

stop discrimination as it

815

:

comes in your path, right?

816

:

So if you hear grandma

or grandpa or uncle Joe.

817

:

Auntie Carol say in your path at the

dinner table about a certain group,

818

:

you say, Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle, Aunt.

819

:

We don't believe in that.

820

:

We don't say that.

821

:

And so you stop that

discrimination right then.

822

:

And by everyone doing this,

we're going to create a more

823

:

deeper and understanding world.

824

:

And more importantly, we'll all be able

to see the change that we want to see.

825

:

This is something that

we all can do one by one.

826

:

You start in your own

family and guess what?

827

:

We'll see that change.

828

:

So I really appreciate you spending

the time, investing the time to

829

:

listen to another episode of a

black executive perspective podcast.

830

:

You can continue to follow us

wherever you get your podcast.

831

:

You can follow us on our social

channels of LinkedIn X, YouTube.

832

:

Instagram and TikTok at ablackexec

for our fabulous, energetic, loving

833

:

guests, Courteney Mitchell for Noel

Miller, the producer behind the

834

:

scenes, that's making all this happen

at the university of New Haven.

835

:

I'm Tony tidbit.

836

:

We talked about it.

837

:

We love you.

838

:

And we're out

839

:

BEP Narrator: a black

executive perspective.

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