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6: Prisoner Solidarity in Palestine
Episode 617th April 2023 • The International Solidarity Movement Podcast • The International Solidarity Movement
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This episode has been released for Palestinian Prisoner's Day. All around the world people are highlighting the conditions of people incarcerated by the Israeli occupation. To mark this day we bring you an interview with Milena Ansari, an incredible organiser from Addameer. Adameer in arabic means conscience. Adameer is a prisoner support and human rights organisation based in Palestine that supports Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli and Palestinian prisons. Established in 1991, the center offers free legal aid to political prisoners, advocates their rights at the national and international level, and works to end torture and other violations of prisoners' rights through monitoring, legal procedures and solidarity campaigns.

View episode transcript here

Unfortunately we had to finish the interview prematurely due to the deportation of Milena's friend Salah Hammouri, a long-time human rights defender and lawyer working with Addameer, which needed an urgent response. We are incredibly grateful for everything that Milena shared with us through the interview. 

We want to give a content warning that there are detailed descriptions of prison conditions, including child imprisonment. 

To support the work of Addameer and to learn about the prisoner struggle in Palestine, please check out the links below.

Links:

If you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, youI can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook

Supported by Shoal Collective

Transcripts

Introduction:

Hey, welcome to the International Solidarity

Introduction:

Movement Podcast [Arabic translation]

Nicole:

Welcome back to The International Solidarity

Nicole:

Movement Podcast. Today is April 17th, which is Palestinian

Nicole:

Prisoners Day. All around the world, people are highlighting

Nicole:

the conditions of people incarcerated by the Israeli

Nicole:

occupation. To mark this day we bring you an interview with

Nicole:

Milena Ansari, an incredible organiser from Addameer. Adameer

Nicole:

in Arabic means 'conscience'. Adameer is a prisoner support

Nicole:

and human rights organisation based in Palestine that supports

Nicole:

Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli and Palestinian

Nicole:

prisons. Established in 1991, the center offers free legal aid

Nicole:

to political prisoners, advocates their rights at the

Nicole:

national and international level, and works to end torture

Nicole:

and other violations of prisoners' rights through

Nicole:

monitoring, legal procedures and solidarity campaigns.

Nicole:

Unfortunately we had to finish the interview prematurely due to

Nicole:

the deportation of Milena's friend Salah Hammouri, a

Nicole:

long-time human rights defender and lawyer working with

Nicole:

Addameer, which needed an urgent response. We are incredibly

Nicole:

grateful for everything that Milena shared with us through

Nicole:

the interview.

Nicole:

We want to give a content warning that there are detailed

Nicole:

descriptions of prison conditions, including child

Nicole:

imprisonment.

Nicole:

To support the work of Addameer and to learn about the prisoner

Nicole:

struggle in Palestine, please check out the links in the show

Nicole:

notes.

Milena Ansari:

Hi, hello, my name is Milena Ansari, I'm the

Milena Ansari:

international advocacy officer at Addameer Prisoner Support and

Milena Ansari:

Human Rights Association. A bit about Addameer, and the work

Milena Ansari:

that we do:

Milena Ansari:

Addameer is a Palestinian non governmental human rights

Milena Ansari:

organisation that focuses its work on advocating

Milena Ansari:

internationally and locally on behalf of Palestinian political

Milena Ansari:

prisoners, held both in Israeli occupation prisons and [by] the

Milena Ansari:

Palestinian Authority as well. Part of the work that Addameer

Milena Ansari:

does is divided into legal work, advocacy work, and awareness.

Milena Ansari:

And so the legal work mainly revolves around providing free

Milena Ansari:

legal aid and services and consultation to Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

detainees and prisoners and their families as well. In

Milena Ansari:

Israeli military courts and Israeli civil courts, and the

Milena Ansari:

Palestinian Authority courts as well. We do regular prison

Milena Ansari:

visits, where we meet the prisoners and detainees and take

Milena Ansari:

their testimonies regarding their detention conditions,

Milena Ansari:

their violations of rights, the violations of rights during

Milena Ansari:

incarceration. And then we analyse this information and

Milena Ansari:

[the] documents we get from the detainees and from the lawyers

Milena Ansari:

regarding legal procedures, and through mechanisms of

Milena Ansari:

international law, including international human rights law,

Milena Ansari:

international humanitarian law, and also international criminal

Milena Ansari:

law. In order to look into the systematic and widespread

Milena Ansari:

violations of detainees rights, such as the use of torture, ill

Milena Ansari:

treatment and medical neglect, prison raids that are brutal in

Milena Ansari:

nature, and also the overall brutal detention conditions that

Milena Ansari:

the Palestinians face inside prison.

Milena Ansari:

And of course, fair trial guarantees in the Israeli

Milena Ansari:

judicial system, whether the military one or the civil one.

Milena Ansari:

So that's locally local work. When we're talking about

Milena Ansari:

advocacy. It's mainly international advocacy speaking

Milena Ansari:

to the international community, the way I see it, or I divide

Milena Ansari:

the work for advocacy into three targeted groups. The first group

Milena Ansari:

is regarding litigation. So the United Nations, the Human Rights

Milena Ansari:

Council, the special procedures, and the International Criminal

Milena Ansari:

Cour. Different mechanisms regarding litigation on an

Milena Ansari:

international level, where we report to them regularly

Milena Ansari:

regarding highlighted cases of Palestinian prisoners and

Milena Ansari:

detainees and whether there is any new violations or

Milena Ansari:

circumstances leading to something very threatening

Milena Ansari:

regarding the prisoners' movement as a whole.

Milena Ansari:

The second target group is parliamentarians' representative

Milena Ansari:

offices in Ramallah in Jerusalem. But sadly, this type

Milena Ansari:

of targeted group, there's not much development or actual work

Milena Ansari:

taking action because sadly, the diplomats or the

Milena Ansari:

parliamentarians are always restricted with their own state

Milena Ansari:

position on how much they can take action so they can know the

Milena Ansari:

brutality and in just about these cases, but they don't take

Milena Ansari:

any concrete action to prevent the further violations of human

Milena Ansari:

rights, because they're restricted by the country's

Milena Ansari:

politics.

Milena Ansari:

The third targeted group is international organisations,

Milena Ansari:

grassroots solidarity movements and liberation movements across

Milena Ansari:

the world. It's important for us to also target our advocacy work

Milena Ansari:

to these groups, because at the end of the day, we understand

Milena Ansari:

the injustice that happens in Palestine, the brutality, the

Milena Ansari:

violence, what happens with political prisoners, whether

Milena Ansari:

spyware surveillance or the use of torture or medical neglect,

Milena Ansari:

is not something very unique to the Palestinian situation. But

Milena Ansari:

these are policies that oppressive governments use

Milena Ansari:

across the world to implement their domination and oppression

Milena Ansari:

over a vulnerable community or minority group.

Milena Ansari:

So we tried to put aside the geographic fragmentation and

Milena Ansari:

differences and focus on these arbitrary policies. And this is

Milena Ansari:

the third targeted group. But when we talk about the work of

Milena Ansari:

Addameer we also work on spreading awareness to the

Milena Ansari:

Palestinian community here locally on the ground. We do

Milena Ansari:

workshop programmes that are called Know Your Rights 'K N O

Milena Ansari:

W'. Sadly, if you can see me you will be you'll see that I'm

Milena Ansari:

doing air quotes, because from the first moment Palestinians

Milena Ansari:

are arrested up until the release, there's brutality and

Milena Ansari:

violence embedded at each stage of the process, whether it is

Milena Ansari:

the arrest process, the detention process, the

Milena Ansari:

interrogation, the transfer to the prison, and the

Milena Ansari:

incarceration itself. There's violence and brutality. But it's

Milena Ansari:

really important for us to spread the awareness to our

Milena Ansari:

community, to strengthen their knowledge of their own rights,

Milena Ansari:

when they are subjected to arrest and detention, we make

Milena Ansari:

sure that they know they have the right to have a lawyer

Milena Ansari:

present with them to be interrogated in the language

Milena Ansari:

they know. But sadly, none of these rights are provided to

Milena Ansari:

them. But it gives some kind of, you know, strength to the

Milena Ansari:

prisoners, because inside prison, they are isolated, they

Milena Ansari:

don't have a community to support [them] psychologically

Milena Ansari:

or mentally, and so on. It's on us to empower them ahead of

Milena Ansari:

time, and to know what to expect and how to act in these

Milena Ansari:

conditions.

Nicole:

What is the situation of prisoners in Palestine? What

Nicole:

kind of conditions are they living in and experiencing

Milena Ansari:

First, before talking about prison conditions,

Milena Ansari:

I do have to acknowledge that me myself, I have never been in

Milena Ansari:

[Its] not only overcrowding, but there is lack of any basic

Milena Ansari:

minimum living standards, like any adequate living for basic

Milena Ansari:

human beings, there is no protection of the right to

Milena Ansari:

prison. So part of me doesn't feel like I have the right to

Milena Ansari:

health, the right to education, even inside prison. What I mean

Milena Ansari:

talk about prison conditions, because we document from the

Milena Ansari:

by this is that inside prison, the prisoners are in control -

Milena Ansari:

or they are in charge and responsible - of everything for

Milena Ansari:

themselves. They do the cooking, they do the cleaning, they buy

Milena Ansari:

their life necessities from the prison canteen, where there is

Milena Ansari:

also economic exploitation, where the prison canteen sells

Milena Ansari:

life necessities and food at very high costs and high prices.

Milena Ansari:

There is also economic exploitation because the prison

Milena Ansari:

contains you. The prisoners are obligated to buy these

Milena Ansari:

necessities at very high prices. Why I say obligated because

Milena Ansari:

according to international humanitarian law, when there's

Milena Ansari:

occupation and there are prisoners from an occupied

Milena Ansari:

territory and the occupying power, which Israel in this

Milena Ansari:

prisoners themselves, [taking] testimonies directly. So these

Milena Ansari:

context has. [The occupier] has an obligation to provide

Milena Ansari:

are their words, their own experiences, prison conditions

Milena Ansari:

adequate living necessities to the prisoners, they have an

Milena Ansari:

are extremely brutal, and they're harsh in nature, there's

Milena Ansari:

obligation to provide even adequate healthcare to

Milena Ansari:

overcrowding in prisons [that] Palestinians are incarcerated

Milena Ansari:

prisoners. But what we see [with] implementation on the

Milena Ansari:

ground is actually using healthcare as a leverage against

Milena Ansari:

detainees and prisoners, where in order to put more

Milena Ansari:

in. In one prison cell, there could be more than ten prisoners

Milena Ansari:

psychological pressure, more physical pressure on the

Milena Ansari:

detainees, even [when they are already] in prison, the Israeli

Milena Ansari:

Prison Services don't provide them proper medical health care.

Milena Ansari:

The prison clinics are [called] by the prisoners as the

Milena Ansari:

slaughterhouse because they're by no means a place to take

Milena Ansari:

there.

Milena Ansari:

medical care, or to take any kind of treatment or prevent

Milena Ansari:

yourself from any sickness or diseases or even chronic

Milena Ansari:

illnesses that the detainees or prisoners already have. So they

Milena Ansari:

are experiencing more brutality in the clinic. The prison

Milena Ansari:

clinics [are[ like going back to prison conditions as a whole.

Milena Ansari:

How is life inside prison? The prison structure the prisons. So

Milena Ansari:

general, there are 17 prisons and detention centres where

Milena Ansari:

Palestinians are incarcerated by the Israeli occupation, and only

Milena Ansari:

one is located in the West Bank - so in the Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

I don't want to talk about law a lot. But the forcible transfer

Milena Ansari:

territory - the rest are located in what is now called Israel.

Milena Ansari:

of the prisoners outside of their occupied territory, to the

Milena Ansari:

territory of the occupying power, is also illegal under

Milena Ansari:

international law and is a crime, and what we see happen on

Milena Ansari:

What that means? one thing is that the Palestinian prisoners

Milena Ansari:

a day to day basis. And the majority of the Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

prisoners are forcibly transferred outside of their

Milena Ansari:

territory. The prison structures or the prisons where

Milena Ansari:

are isolated from their own community. What it also means is

Milena Ansari:

Palestinians are incarcerated in now. Not only are they held

Milena Ansari:

inside what is Israel, but they are also prisons that were

Milena Ansari:

established from the British Mandate era. So we're talking

Milena Ansari:

about from way before 1948. And no actual reconstruction or

Milena Ansari:

that the loved ones, the Palestinian community cannot

Milena Ansari:

rehabilitation for these structures have happened. Yhe

Milena Ansari:

structure of prisons doesn't really entail anything that they

Milena Ansari:

visit the prisoners inside Israeli prisons, because they

Milena Ansari:

can hold prisoners in them. Like, for example, Damon Prison

Milena Ansari:

[in the Naqab, inside the borders of Israel] - where

Milena Ansari:

Palestinian woman prisoners are incarcerated and detained. And

Milena Ansari:

need to take a specific permit from the Israeli occupation. And

Milena Ansari:

originally, during the British Mandate, it was a place to store

Milena Ansari:

tobacco and even a horse stable at some sort of time period. But

Milena Ansari:

when I say this, by no means do we mean that we need to better

Milena Ansari:

the detention conditions for Palestinian prisoners. No, we do

Milena Ansari:

we note and report that male Palestinians between the age of

Milena Ansari:

need to focus [on] the root cause. That is, why do we have

Milena Ansari:

4700 Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli

Milena Ansari:

prisons? This is the focus or the question that we should

Milena Ansari:

20 and 40, almost never get a permit to visit their loved one

Milena Ansari:

tackle and prison conditions is just one of the issues we follow

Milena Ansari:

up on. So other than the overcrowdness, there's also lack

Milena Ansari:

of ventilation, lack of natural lighting, or any kind of like

Milena Ansari:

is in prison. So there is isolation.

Milena Ansari:

window cell that brings any kind of sunlight or natural lighting

Milena Ansari:

to the prison cell.

Nicole:

like how do prisoners in Palestine [organise]? Like are

Nicole:

they able to organise with each other, or resist the conditions?

Nicole:

Obviously, they must experience oppression from these

Nicole:

activities. But yeah, how are prisoners fighting back?

Milena Ansari:

The Palestinian prisoner movement - and I can

Milena Ansari:

tell you this, with all honesty - it's one of the only forms

Milena Ansari:

where Palestinians are united, sadly. Because outside of

Milena Ansari:

prisons Palestinians are fragmented, geographically,

Milena Ansari:

whether it is Palestinians in Gaza in their land, water and

Milena Ansari:

air siege for more than five years, seven years now, whether

Milena Ansari:

it is Palestinians in the West Bank that are under military

Milena Ansari:

rule, or Palestinians in Jerusalem and occupied '48

Milena Ansari:

territories that are under direct Israeli apartheid and

Milena Ansari:

discrimination. And of course, the Palestinian refugees,

Milena Ansari:

millions of them in exile, not being able to return back to

Milena Ansari:

their country. So the Palestinian community is

Milena Ansari:

fragmented outside of prison. But when we talk about the

Milena Ansari:

prisoners movement, it is all united, all together. There is

Milena Ansari:

no political party making decisions amongst all the other

Milena Ansari:

prisoners, they are all united taking decisions. And we see

Milena Ansari:

honestly a very strong connection and strong activism

Milena Ansari:

inside prison even with all of the brutality that prisoners face.

Milena Ansari:

And one example of this is hunger strikes. Collective

Milena Ansari:

hunger strikes have been one of the most important and only

Milena Ansari:

tools for Palestinian prisoners to protest either their harsh

Milena Ansari:

incarceration conditions, or their arbitrary detention in

Milena Ansari:

general. So collectively, they decide as a whole to refuse food

Milena Ansari:

for an open period of time, in order to change the power

Milena Ansari:

dynamics between the prison guards and the prisoners

Milena Ansari:

themselves. So the prisoners become in control of their own

Milena Ansari:

bodies. They become sovereign over their bodies, and don't

Milena Ansari:

allow the prison guards to decide how they want to live

Milena Ansari:

their life or whatnot. It's a form of pressure. It's a

Milena Ansari:

peaceful form of demonstration. You're're using your own body to

Milena Ansari:

change the power dynamics between the oppressor and the

Milena Ansari:

victim. But sadly we see [that] collective hunger strikes are

Milena Ansari:

also being faced with more retaliation by the Israeli

Milena Ansari:

Prison Service. And so for example, when the prisoners

Milena Ansari:

initiate a hunger strike, those who are striking are immediately

Milena Ansari:

put into isolation as a form of punishment in the Israeli Prison

Milena Ansari:

Service's sense that doesn't make any common sense. And they

Milena Ansari:

say that since they are refusing a meal, which is in the laws and

Milena Ansari:

policies of the prison, they are basically refusing to abide by

Milena Ansari:

the prison rules. So they punish them by isolating them and

Milena Ansari:

putting them in isolation cells. Also part of [the repression is]

Milena Ansari:

not allowing them any contact or communication with the rest of

Milena Ansari:

the prisoners.

Milena Ansari:

Other forms of resistance by the prisoner movements other than

Milena Ansari:

hunger strikes and refusing meals is they refuse to stand in

Milena Ansari:

the count. The count is when the prison guards enter each prison

Milena Ansari:

cell and call out the prisoners by their numbers to make sure

Milena Ansari:

everyone is still in their place in their cells. And so a form

Milena Ansari:

[of resisting] is refusing to stand, to obey or to listen to

Milena Ansari:

them calling the prisoners.

Nicole:

How is the prisoner solidarity movement, like on the

Nicole:

outside? Like how is this relationship between the inside

Nicole:

and the outside in Palestine?

Milena Ansari:

they're intertwined. Definitely, like

Milena Ansari:

whatever the situation on [the] ground outside of prison is,

Milena Ansari:

does reflect on the situation inside prison and vice versa. Of

Milena Ansari:

course, an example of this is there was a hunger strike that

Milena Ansari:

was supposed to [be] initiate[d] in 2014. But if you remember, in

Milena Ansari:

2014, there was a huge war on Gaza. And the Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

community wasn't able to either focus on the hunger strike in

Milena Ansari:

prison or the siege and the war on Gaza in 2014. So the

Milena Ansari:

prisoners halted their hunger strike and postponed it until

Milena Ansari:

after the violence against Gaza. Because, you know, the

Milena Ansari:

Palestinian community tends to feel a lot. Like in May 2021,

Milena Ansari:

when there were families, Palestinian families in Sheikh

Milena Ansari:

Jarrah being forcibly displaced [from[ their own homes in

Milena Ansari:

Jerusalem. And everyone across Palestine from the river to the

Milena Ansari:

sea was revolting, and was standing up with Palestinians in

Milena Ansari:

Sheikh Jarrah. We even saw cities in the occupied 1948

Milena Ansari:

territories that don't usually stand up or speak up or

Milena Ansari:

challenge the Israelis, because they are at the forefront with

Milena Ansari:

the Israeli occupation. But for example, Al Lidd, which is a

Milena Ansari:

Palestinian occupied '48 city was revolting and standing up.

Milena Ansari:

We saw even people in the diaspora, Palestinians all

Milena Ansari:

around the world standing up with Sheikh Jarrah, and so I can

Milena Ansari:

clearly say that there is an intertwine or a reflection to

Milena Ansari:

what happens outside of prison with what happens inside of

Milena Ansari:

prison.

Milena Ansari:

Same thing, if we talk about the vice versa. The Gilboa escape.

Milena Ansari:

That happened last year, in November, where six Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

prisoners from Gilboa, a maximum security prison, were able to

Milena Ansari:

successfully escape this prison and sadly, they were recaptured

Milena Ansari:

after that. But during that escape all the Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

community across Historic Palestine, was supporting them

Milena Ansari:

saying that we're here to support or take on any prisoner

Milena Ansari:

or any escapee - even if they would face criminal

Milena Ansari:

responsibility and criminal charges. They made sure that

Milena Ansari:

whenever a prisoner needs a Palestinian, that the support

Milena Ansari:

and solidarity is there. And of course, the way that

Milena Ansari:

Palestinians look at prisoners, they look at them as a symbol of

Milena Ansari:

resistance and a symbol of strength. Because although we

Milena Ansari:

are living in an open air prison, they are living in a

Milena Ansari:

very closed prison, isolated from their loved ones, their

Milena Ansari:

family, and their support system. So we have to be their

Milena Ansari:

support system from outside of prisons.

Nicole:

And do people like receive letters? Is that

Nicole:

possible? Or I know you said visits are often very

Nicole:

restricted, but how do families stay in touch with their loved

Nicole:

ones to prison?

Milena Ansari:

Sadly, this is what the Israeli prison services

Milena Ansari:

and the Israeli Apartheid settler colonial regime aims for

Milena Ansari:

regarding prisoners, they aim to isolate them. So when we talk

Milena Ansari:

about, do they get letters from their loved ones and whatnot?

Milena Ansari:

The answer is simply no. It's possible to send letters but the

Milena Ansari:

Israeli prison services will open each letter, read it

Milena Ansari:

through, and if they feel like any sentence or any word is

Milena Ansari:

misplaced, or might motivate the Palestinians, or support them in

Milena Ansari:

a way that the Israelis don't want the prisoners to have

Milena Ansari:

support, they don't give the letter to the prisoner. So it

Milena Ansari:

stops with the Israeli prison guard that looks into the

Milena Ansari:

letter. So it's possible to send, but it's not really

Milena Ansari:

possible that the prisoner will receive the letter at the end of

Milena Ansari:

the day. And this is all part of restriction like by the way even

Milena Ansari:

books, educational books, even the Quran - which is the Holy

Milena Ansari:

Bible - is sometimes refused to enter the prison. Or even if we

Milena Ansari:

want like different religious books - not the only the Quran -

Milena Ansari:

they don't allow religious books. They don't allow history

Milena Ansari:

books inside prison, any like chemistry or physics books? They

Milena Ansari:

use the allegation or the narrative of security reasons.

Milena Ansari:

But we know all of this is part of educating the Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

community, because inside prison, there's no education

Milena Ansari:

system provided by the Israeli prison services. And it's

Milena Ansari:

completely banned.

Nicole:

So in that regard, like we had the insight into reading

Nicole:

one of your reports about prisoner education, and it was

Nicole:

super inspiring all this organising and pressure

Nicole:

campaigns to access education, including the development of a

Nicole:

university! could you share a little bit about that?

Milena Ansari:

And so inside prison, the Israeli Prison

Milena Ansari:

Services completely deny the Palestinian prisoners and

Milena Ansari:

detainees the right to education, the right to continue

Milena Ansari:

their education. So any educational books or study

Milena Ansari:

groups are banned, and the prisoners can be punished for

Milena Ansari:

[trying to access them], either by isolation or banning them

Milena Ansari:

from prison, from family visits, or phone calls to their

Milena Ansari:

families. And so what the the prisoner movement did - and this

Milena Ansari:

is one of the success stories of the Palestinian prisoners'

Milena Ansari:

movement - is that they established their own university

Milena Ansari:

educational system, where they also work remotely with Al Quds

Milena Ansari:

University in Abu Dis. But this educational system is restricted

Milena Ansari:

[to] a few topics, like a few fields of education, like social

Milena Ansari:

sciences, and I believe political science as well.

Milena Ansari:

Social Sciences and Political Science and Social Studies,

Milena Ansari:

Psychology, things that have do with math, or physics or biology

Milena Ansari:

or whatnot. Because these are banned by the Israeli Prison

Milena Ansari:

Services. So when I say that they have established their own

Milena Ansari:

system, it's really important to note that the Israeli Prison

Milena Ansari:

Services, up, until this point, have allowed this to happen. But

Milena Ansari:

at any moment, they can hold every Palestinian prisoner who

Milena Ansari:

goes into this establishment of the like the study courses and

Milena Ansari:

the cultural courses - they can punish them because at the end

Milena Ansari:

of the day it's still illegal, but for some reason, they're

Milena Ansari:

shutting a blind eye at it. And of course, this education system

Milena Ansari:

was established by the Palestinian political prisoner

Milena Ansari:

and Legislative Council Member Marwan Barghouti, and he had

Milena Ansari:

[an] important role in this. And he led the prisoner movement

Milena Ansari:

with this educational system.

Nicole:

So in the UK, we have one of the most privatised

Nicole:

prison systems in the world. We have a lot of private companies

Nicole:

making massive profits from imprisoning people. And I'm

Nicole:

aware that one of those companies G4S has also worked in

Nicole:

Palestine. Could you share a little bit about that?

Nicole:

Maybe I'll connect it to something very recent I read

Milena Ansari:

The G4S campaign actually is also another success

Milena Ansari:

story for the BDS [Boycorr, Divestment and Sanctions]

Milena Ansari:

Movement. Because in the past, I believe in 2014-2016, the G4S

Milena Ansari:

campaign - which is a security surveillance company that runs

Milena Ansari:

in different prisons across the world, and Israeli prison

Milena Ansari:

services used to use G4S in their own prison systems. There

Milena Ansari:

was a huge campaign against G4S asking them, and calling them to

Milena Ansari:

end their ties with the Israeli occupation, because of their

Milena Ansari:

violations of human rights. And this is where we see the line

Milena Ansari:

between private companies and human rights come together.

Milena Ansari:

Because we cannot say that businesses or companies should

Milena Ansari:

not abide by human rights, law and international principles. On

Milena Ansari:

the contrary, they play a huge and important role in really

Milena Ansari:

facilitating and playing an integral role in the oppression

Milena Ansari:

about, which is Ben and Jerry's, the ice cream company. And very

Milena Ansari:

recently, I think last week, officially, they won the lawsuit

Milena Ansari:

and domination of the people. So thankfully, up until now, the

Milena Ansari:

where they took control over stopping their products - Ben

Milena Ansari:

G4S have withdrawn their surveillance and their

Milena Ansari:

and Jerry's, an ice cream company - [stopping] their

Milena Ansari:

products in Israeli settlements. The mother company of Ben and

Milena Ansari:

technology systems from Israeli prisons, but I do acknowledge

Milena Ansari:

Jerry's, refused this act, and wanted to hold them responsible

Milena Ansari:

And what do you think is the role of the international

Milena Ansari:

community in terms of prisoner solidarity and prisoner support

Milena Ansari:

for stopping their products in an Israeli settlement. But after

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and I can say it clearly that training sessions between G4S

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in Palestine?

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following up with legal procedures, and really not

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bowing down to the bullying of the Israeli occupation, and also

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Israeli lobbying around the world, they won the case. And

Milena Ansari:

and Israeli Prison Services or Israeli security intelligence is

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they were able to officially decide and announce that they

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will not have any of their products in Israeli settlements.

Milena Ansari:

still ongoing. So while they pulled their services from

Milena Ansari:

So this is what we need to focus on, is that no matter how big,

Milena Ansari:

or how small,. Whether it is security and technology in

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prisons, they're still complicit somehow, by training and giving

Milena Ansari:

prisons, or ice cream, it really plays a role in maintaining the

Milena Ansari:

oppression on the Palestinian people and sustaining the

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Israeli apartheid regime. So in order to really tackle the root

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workshops to the Israeli occupation. This is why the

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cause of what's happening here in Palestine, each country or

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power of BDS is important. Because it's not only about the

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each company needs to really self-criticise their work and

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self note, how are they complicit and playing an

Milena Ansari:

clear violations that we see, but it's also what happens under

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integral role into the occupation of the Palestinian

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people. And trust me, when this happens, when companies start

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the table. It's these training sessions that are also embedded

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opening their eyes and holding Israel accountable for human

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rights violations, Israel will understand the pressure from the

Milena Ansari:

international community.

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in the Israeli occupation, the ways of domination and

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oppression. And it all needs to end.

Milena Ansari:

And I know this is possible because, when Russia invaded

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parts of Ukraine and established a war, and started stealing

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lands in Ukraine, European countries did not stop to think

Milena Ansari:

for a second [before] boycott[ing], sanction[ing] and

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divest[ing] from Russia and Russian companies. So we know

Milena Ansari:

it's possible, with political will and with political

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intention. And we just want the same treatment, of how the

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international community is treating different racial groups

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or different nationalities - to treat Palestinians minimum the

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same. It's not because we're jealous, or we want to be

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treated as Europeans or whatnot. It's basic human rights. It's a

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legal, and it's a moral obligation on the countries

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around the world, to hold Israel accountable for their human

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rights violations, instead of shedding a blind eye and

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constantly giving impunity to their violations. Because this

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silence only tells Israel, we're giving you the green-light to

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continue on doing whatever you're doing, and even expanding

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on doing that. So there's a big role [for] the international

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community, ending their silence. And it starts with basically

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ending their silence.

Milena Ansari:

For the prisoners movement, solidarity is not only during

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hunger strikes, this is what I really want to focus on. Because

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in the type of work I do, I always interact with the

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international community, I always talk or report on cases

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of the hunger striking detainee, or a detainee under medical

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neglect or a woman in prison or a child. We talk about the

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policies, the systematic policies, and sadly, no one

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hears us when we're talking about policies. But when we say

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there's a detainee under imminent threat of death, that

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there is a child who was subjected to torture, or there

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was a woman who was subjected to rape, like when we are extremely

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clear about the cases, do we see people wanting to interact and

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wanting to work and wanting to save this specific case? But

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sadly, that's not how we will deal with the prisoners issue.

Milena Ansari:

Because it's not only one prisoner, it's not two

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prisoners. It's 4700 prisoners all facing the same policies of

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discrimination and oppression.

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So when You want to stand with Palestinian prisoners, you have

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to stand against the policies stand against prosecuting

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Palestinian civilians in Israeli military courts that lack any

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guarantee of fair trial standards, because violations of

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their rights starts from them. Starts when a military judge

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whose most of the time an Israeli military officer and

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most of the time an Israeli settler is ruling using Israeli

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military orders against a Palestinian. So basically,

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there's no real justice or accountability in the Israeli

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judicial system. It's just a system that plays an integral

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role in facilitating all these policies and all this

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oppression.

Milena Ansari:

So if the international community wants to stand with

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Palestinian prisoners, they have to stand against the Israeli

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apartheid regime, they have to stand against settler

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colonialism. Because as long as the idea - or the ideology - of

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settler colonialism is deeply rooted in the State of Israel,

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political prisoners will emerge over and over again. Violations

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of the rights will continue on happening. So in order to really

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support prisoners, we need to support the Palestinian people

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in general. Stand against prosecuting Palestinian

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prisoners in military courts, stand against the military

Milena Ansari:

regime that's implemented against Palestinians in the West

Milena Ansari:

Bank, and stand against the racist policies of the Israeli

Milena Ansari:

apartheid regime.

Nicole:

So how do you think that kind of like situation has

Nicole:

changed over time here? I know [from] doing prisoner solidarity

Nicole:

work a long time, it often feels extremely depressing, that

Nicole:

things just seem to get worse and worse. And obviously, you've

Nicole:

talked about some successes in your struggles and your

Nicole:

organising. But how do you think it's changed? And how do you

Nicole:

think it might continue to change?

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So I don't want to be pessimistic at all. I want

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to be [as] realistic as possible. I have been working

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with Addameer for three years now. And I can say, from this

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short period of time, three years, the situation has been

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ten times worse, it has been increasingly escalating with

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violence with the numbers of prisoners with the policies that

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the Israeli Prison Services use. And sadly, it's very

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disappointing. It's very sad. It's very unfortunate. And if I

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want to say who is to respond to be responsible, I'm not the type

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of person who likes to blame others. But I do want to shed

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light at the role of the international community. Because

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when the the prisoners' movement first emerged, there wasn't much

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solidarity and much support [for] the prisoner movement.

Milena Ansari:

Like the international community would still argue that

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Palestinians are in prison because of the safety of the

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State of Israel. We would still hear these arguments, justifying

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the brutality inside prisons, by saying [it is] to save the

Milena Ansari:

security of Israel. And so I believe, sadly, the impunity of

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the international community has allowed Israel to continue on

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doing what they're doing, and even expanding more and more. As

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I mentioned before, but really, I'm being completely realistic.

Milena Ansari:

Like when I first started with Addameer, I was talking about

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300 Palestinian administrative detainees. So those who are

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detained without a charge without a trial, based on secret

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information and indefinite time. There are 300 of them during the

Milena Ansari:

first time I started three years ago. But now if you asked me,

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what is the number of administrative detainees, it's

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835. And that's within three years, this number, I think,

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doubled even within two years, the situation is definitely

Milena Ansari:

getting worse, even with the Gilboa escape last year. We are

Milena Ansari:

seeing the Israeli Prison Services implement more policies

Milena Ansari:

of retaliation against the prisoners. So they even started

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with the recent policy where one prisoner cannot stay in their

Milena Ansari:

own cell... more than three months, and they cannot stay in

Milena Ansari:

the same prison more than six months. So they're even trying

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to really mess up the whole life inside prison, where it's always

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uncertainty. There's always unknowing, and the future of the

Milena Ansari:

prisoners inside prison is always left at the hands of the

Milena Ansari:

Israeli Prison Services sadly. So I don't want to be sounding

Milena Ansari:

very pessimistic but it's the situation on ground, it's

Milena Ansari:

deteriorating day by day.

Nicole:

Recently, we went to a demonstration with some mothers

Nicole:

whose children were in prison. I just wondered, you know, we have

Nicole:

we have, like children prisoners in the UK from the age of 12. We

Nicole:

can be in prison. But I know here it's like on a completely

Nicole:

different scale. How many children are in prison? And I

Nicole:

just wondered what the situation is [for] child prisoners?

Milena Ansari:

When we want to talk about Palestinian children,

Milena Ansari:

prisoners and detainees. Actually, it's the most brutal

Milena Ansari:

and the saddest, topic or issue regarding the Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

prisoners' movement, because yes, even here, children as

Milena Ansari:

young as 12, could be prosecuted and put in prison. And there is

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a juvenile system, or a juvenile judicial system, implemented by

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the Israeli occupation, but there's no actual application of

Milena Ansari:

it, like in reality on ground, the same court that looks into

Milena Ansari:

prosecuting a Palestinian [adult], regardless of what age,

Milena Ansari:

is the same that looks into prosecuting Palestinian

Milena Ansari:

children. So this juvenile system only exists in words and

Milena Ansari:

writing but not in real implementation. There are around

Milena Ansari:

160 Palestinian children in prison. Four of them are placed

Milena Ansari:

under administrative detention. So four children are placed

Milena Ansari:

without charge without trial under secret information! [final

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