This episode has been released for Palestinian Prisoner's Day. All around the world people are highlighting the conditions of people incarcerated by the Israeli occupation. To mark this day we bring you an interview with Milena Ansari, an incredible organiser from Addameer. Adameer in arabic means conscience. Adameer is a prisoner support and human rights organisation based in Palestine that supports Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli and Palestinian prisons. Established in 1991, the center offers free legal aid to political prisoners, advocates their rights at the national and international level, and works to end torture and other violations of prisoners' rights through monitoring, legal procedures and solidarity campaigns.
Unfortunately we had to finish the interview prematurely due to the deportation of Milena's friend Salah Hammouri, a long-time human rights defender and lawyer working with Addameer, which needed an urgent response. We are incredibly grateful for everything that Milena shared with us through the interview.
We want to give a content warning that there are detailed descriptions of prison conditions, including child imprisonment.
To support the work of Addameer and to learn about the prisoner struggle in Palestine, please check out the links below.
Links:
If you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, youI can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook
Hey, welcome to the International Solidarity
Introduction:Movement Podcast [Arabic translation]
Nicole:Welcome back to The International Solidarity
Nicole:Movement Podcast. Today is April 17th, which is Palestinian
Nicole:Prisoners Day. All around the world, people are highlighting
Nicole:the conditions of people incarcerated by the Israeli
Nicole:occupation. To mark this day we bring you an interview with
Nicole:Milena Ansari, an incredible organiser from Addameer. Adameer
Nicole:in Arabic means 'conscience'. Adameer is a prisoner support
Nicole:and human rights organisation based in Palestine that supports
Nicole:Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli and Palestinian
Nicole:prisons. Established in 1991, the center offers free legal aid
Nicole:to political prisoners, advocates their rights at the
Nicole:national and international level, and works to end torture
Nicole:and other violations of prisoners' rights through
Nicole:monitoring, legal procedures and solidarity campaigns.
Nicole:Unfortunately we had to finish the interview prematurely due to
Nicole:the deportation of Milena's friend Salah Hammouri, a
Nicole:long-time human rights defender and lawyer working with
Nicole:Addameer, which needed an urgent response. We are incredibly
Nicole:grateful for everything that Milena shared with us through
Nicole:the interview.
Nicole:We want to give a content warning that there are detailed
Nicole:descriptions of prison conditions, including child
Nicole:imprisonment.
Nicole:To support the work of Addameer and to learn about the prisoner
Nicole:struggle in Palestine, please check out the links in the show
Nicole:notes.
Milena Ansari:Hi, hello, my name is Milena Ansari, I'm the
Milena Ansari:international advocacy officer at Addameer Prisoner Support and
Milena Ansari:Human Rights Association. A bit about Addameer, and the work
Milena Ansari:that we do:
Milena Ansari:Addameer is a Palestinian non governmental human rights
Milena Ansari:organisation that focuses its work on advocating
Milena Ansari:internationally and locally on behalf of Palestinian political
Milena Ansari:prisoners, held both in Israeli occupation prisons and [by] the
Milena Ansari:Palestinian Authority as well. Part of the work that Addameer
Milena Ansari:does is divided into legal work, advocacy work, and awareness.
Milena Ansari:And so the legal work mainly revolves around providing free
Milena Ansari:legal aid and services and consultation to Palestinian
Milena Ansari:detainees and prisoners and their families as well. In
Milena Ansari:Israeli military courts and Israeli civil courts, and the
Milena Ansari:Palestinian Authority courts as well. We do regular prison
Milena Ansari:visits, where we meet the prisoners and detainees and take
Milena Ansari:their testimonies regarding their detention conditions,
Milena Ansari:their violations of rights, the violations of rights during
Milena Ansari:incarceration. And then we analyse this information and
Milena Ansari:[the] documents we get from the detainees and from the lawyers
Milena Ansari:regarding legal procedures, and through mechanisms of
Milena Ansari:international law, including international human rights law,
Milena Ansari:international humanitarian law, and also international criminal
Milena Ansari:law. In order to look into the systematic and widespread
Milena Ansari:violations of detainees rights, such as the use of torture, ill
Milena Ansari:treatment and medical neglect, prison raids that are brutal in
Milena Ansari:nature, and also the overall brutal detention conditions that
Milena Ansari:the Palestinians face inside prison.
Milena Ansari:And of course, fair trial guarantees in the Israeli
Milena Ansari:judicial system, whether the military one or the civil one.
Milena Ansari:So that's locally local work. When we're talking about
Milena Ansari:advocacy. It's mainly international advocacy speaking
Milena Ansari:to the international community, the way I see it, or I divide
Milena Ansari:the work for advocacy into three targeted groups. The first group
Milena Ansari:is regarding litigation. So the United Nations, the Human Rights
Milena Ansari:Council, the special procedures, and the International Criminal
Milena Ansari:Cour. Different mechanisms regarding litigation on an
Milena Ansari:international level, where we report to them regularly
Milena Ansari:regarding highlighted cases of Palestinian prisoners and
Milena Ansari:detainees and whether there is any new violations or
Milena Ansari:circumstances leading to something very threatening
Milena Ansari:regarding the prisoners' movement as a whole.
Milena Ansari:The second target group is parliamentarians' representative
Milena Ansari:offices in Ramallah in Jerusalem. But sadly, this type
Milena Ansari:of targeted group, there's not much development or actual work
Milena Ansari:taking action because sadly, the diplomats or the
Milena Ansari:parliamentarians are always restricted with their own state
Milena Ansari:position on how much they can take action so they can know the
Milena Ansari:brutality and in just about these cases, but they don't take
Milena Ansari:any concrete action to prevent the further violations of human
Milena Ansari:rights, because they're restricted by the country's
Milena Ansari:politics.
Milena Ansari:The third targeted group is international organisations,
Milena Ansari:grassroots solidarity movements and liberation movements across
Milena Ansari:the world. It's important for us to also target our advocacy work
Milena Ansari:to these groups, because at the end of the day, we understand
Milena Ansari:the injustice that happens in Palestine, the brutality, the
Milena Ansari:violence, what happens with political prisoners, whether
Milena Ansari:spyware surveillance or the use of torture or medical neglect,
Milena Ansari:is not something very unique to the Palestinian situation. But
Milena Ansari:these are policies that oppressive governments use
Milena Ansari:across the world to implement their domination and oppression
Milena Ansari:over a vulnerable community or minority group.
Milena Ansari:So we tried to put aside the geographic fragmentation and
Milena Ansari:differences and focus on these arbitrary policies. And this is
Milena Ansari:the third targeted group. But when we talk about the work of
Milena Ansari:Addameer we also work on spreading awareness to the
Milena Ansari:Palestinian community here locally on the ground. We do
Milena Ansari:workshop programmes that are called Know Your Rights 'K N O
Milena Ansari:W'. Sadly, if you can see me you will be you'll see that I'm
Milena Ansari:doing air quotes, because from the first moment Palestinians
Milena Ansari:are arrested up until the release, there's brutality and
Milena Ansari:violence embedded at each stage of the process, whether it is
Milena Ansari:the arrest process, the detention process, the
Milena Ansari:interrogation, the transfer to the prison, and the
Milena Ansari:incarceration itself. There's violence and brutality. But it's
Milena Ansari:really important for us to spread the awareness to our
Milena Ansari:community, to strengthen their knowledge of their own rights,
Milena Ansari:when they are subjected to arrest and detention, we make
Milena Ansari:sure that they know they have the right to have a lawyer
Milena Ansari:present with them to be interrogated in the language
Milena Ansari:they know. But sadly, none of these rights are provided to
Milena Ansari:them. But it gives some kind of, you know, strength to the
Milena Ansari:prisoners, because inside prison, they are isolated, they
Milena Ansari:don't have a community to support [them] psychologically
Milena Ansari:or mentally, and so on. It's on us to empower them ahead of
Milena Ansari:time, and to know what to expect and how to act in these
Milena Ansari:conditions.
Nicole:What is the situation of prisoners in Palestine? What
Nicole:kind of conditions are they living in and experiencing
Milena Ansari:First, before talking about prison conditions,
Milena Ansari:I do have to acknowledge that me myself, I have never been in
Milena Ansari:[Its] not only overcrowding, but there is lack of any basic
Milena Ansari:minimum living standards, like any adequate living for basic
Milena Ansari:human beings, there is no protection of the right to
Milena Ansari:prison. So part of me doesn't feel like I have the right to
Milena Ansari:health, the right to education, even inside prison. What I mean
Milena Ansari:talk about prison conditions, because we document from the
Milena Ansari:by this is that inside prison, the prisoners are in control -
Milena Ansari:or they are in charge and responsible - of everything for
Milena Ansari:themselves. They do the cooking, they do the cleaning, they buy
Milena Ansari:their life necessities from the prison canteen, where there is
Milena Ansari:also economic exploitation, where the prison canteen sells
Milena Ansari:life necessities and food at very high costs and high prices.
Milena Ansari:There is also economic exploitation because the prison
Milena Ansari:contains you. The prisoners are obligated to buy these
Milena Ansari:necessities at very high prices. Why I say obligated because
Milena Ansari:according to international humanitarian law, when there's
Milena Ansari:occupation and there are prisoners from an occupied
Milena Ansari:territory and the occupying power, which Israel in this
Milena Ansari:prisoners themselves, [taking] testimonies directly. So these
Milena Ansari:context has. [The occupier] has an obligation to provide
Milena Ansari:are their words, their own experiences, prison conditions
Milena Ansari:adequate living necessities to the prisoners, they have an
Milena Ansari:are extremely brutal, and they're harsh in nature, there's
Milena Ansari:obligation to provide even adequate healthcare to
Milena Ansari:overcrowding in prisons [that] Palestinians are incarcerated
Milena Ansari:prisoners. But what we see [with] implementation on the
Milena Ansari:ground is actually using healthcare as a leverage against
Milena Ansari:detainees and prisoners, where in order to put more
Milena Ansari:in. In one prison cell, there could be more than ten prisoners
Milena Ansari:psychological pressure, more physical pressure on the
Milena Ansari:detainees, even [when they are already] in prison, the Israeli
Milena Ansari:Prison Services don't provide them proper medical health care.
Milena Ansari:The prison clinics are [called] by the prisoners as the
Milena Ansari:slaughterhouse because they're by no means a place to take
Milena Ansari:there.
Milena Ansari:medical care, or to take any kind of treatment or prevent
Milena Ansari:yourself from any sickness or diseases or even chronic
Milena Ansari:illnesses that the detainees or prisoners already have. So they
Milena Ansari:are experiencing more brutality in the clinic. The prison
Milena Ansari:clinics [are[ like going back to prison conditions as a whole.
Milena Ansari:How is life inside prison? The prison structure the prisons. So
Milena Ansari:general, there are 17 prisons and detention centres where
Milena Ansari:Palestinians are incarcerated by the Israeli occupation, and only
Milena Ansari:one is located in the West Bank - so in the Palestinian
Milena Ansari:I don't want to talk about law a lot. But the forcible transfer
Milena Ansari:territory - the rest are located in what is now called Israel.
Milena Ansari:of the prisoners outside of their occupied territory, to the
Milena Ansari:territory of the occupying power, is also illegal under
Milena Ansari:international law and is a crime, and what we see happen on
Milena Ansari:What that means? one thing is that the Palestinian prisoners
Milena Ansari:a day to day basis. And the majority of the Palestinian
Milena Ansari:prisoners are forcibly transferred outside of their
Milena Ansari:territory. The prison structures or the prisons where
Milena Ansari:are isolated from their own community. What it also means is
Milena Ansari:Palestinians are incarcerated in now. Not only are they held
Milena Ansari:inside what is Israel, but they are also prisons that were
Milena Ansari:established from the British Mandate era. So we're talking
Milena Ansari:about from way before 1948. And no actual reconstruction or
Milena Ansari:that the loved ones, the Palestinian community cannot
Milena Ansari:rehabilitation for these structures have happened. Yhe
Milena Ansari:structure of prisons doesn't really entail anything that they
Milena Ansari:visit the prisoners inside Israeli prisons, because they
Milena Ansari:can hold prisoners in them. Like, for example, Damon Prison
Milena Ansari:[in the Naqab, inside the borders of Israel] - where
Milena Ansari:Palestinian woman prisoners are incarcerated and detained. And
Milena Ansari:need to take a specific permit from the Israeli occupation. And
Milena Ansari:originally, during the British Mandate, it was a place to store
Milena Ansari:tobacco and even a horse stable at some sort of time period. But
Milena Ansari:when I say this, by no means do we mean that we need to better
Milena Ansari:the detention conditions for Palestinian prisoners. No, we do
Milena Ansari:we note and report that male Palestinians between the age of
Milena Ansari:need to focus [on] the root cause. That is, why do we have
Milena Ansari:4700 Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli
Milena Ansari:prisons? This is the focus or the question that we should
Milena Ansari:20 and 40, almost never get a permit to visit their loved one
Milena Ansari:tackle and prison conditions is just one of the issues we follow
Milena Ansari:up on. So other than the overcrowdness, there's also lack
Milena Ansari:of ventilation, lack of natural lighting, or any kind of like
Milena Ansari:is in prison. So there is isolation.
Milena Ansari:window cell that brings any kind of sunlight or natural lighting
Milena Ansari:to the prison cell.
Nicole:like how do prisoners in Palestine [organise]? Like are
Nicole:they able to organise with each other, or resist the conditions?
Nicole:Obviously, they must experience oppression from these
Nicole:activities. But yeah, how are prisoners fighting back?
Milena Ansari:The Palestinian prisoner movement - and I can
Milena Ansari:tell you this, with all honesty - it's one of the only forms
Milena Ansari:where Palestinians are united, sadly. Because outside of
Milena Ansari:prisons Palestinians are fragmented, geographically,
Milena Ansari:whether it is Palestinians in Gaza in their land, water and
Milena Ansari:air siege for more than five years, seven years now, whether
Milena Ansari:it is Palestinians in the West Bank that are under military
Milena Ansari:rule, or Palestinians in Jerusalem and occupied '48
Milena Ansari:territories that are under direct Israeli apartheid and
Milena Ansari:discrimination. And of course, the Palestinian refugees,
Milena Ansari:millions of them in exile, not being able to return back to
Milena Ansari:their country. So the Palestinian community is
Milena Ansari:fragmented outside of prison. But when we talk about the
Milena Ansari:prisoners movement, it is all united, all together. There is
Milena Ansari:no political party making decisions amongst all the other
Milena Ansari:prisoners, they are all united taking decisions. And we see
Milena Ansari:honestly a very strong connection and strong activism
Milena Ansari:inside prison even with all of the brutality that prisoners face.
Milena Ansari:And one example of this is hunger strikes. Collective
Milena Ansari:hunger strikes have been one of the most important and only
Milena Ansari:tools for Palestinian prisoners to protest either their harsh
Milena Ansari:incarceration conditions, or their arbitrary detention in
Milena Ansari:general. So collectively, they decide as a whole to refuse food
Milena Ansari:for an open period of time, in order to change the power
Milena Ansari:dynamics between the prison guards and the prisoners
Milena Ansari:themselves. So the prisoners become in control of their own
Milena Ansari:bodies. They become sovereign over their bodies, and don't
Milena Ansari:allow the prison guards to decide how they want to live
Milena Ansari:their life or whatnot. It's a form of pressure. It's a
Milena Ansari:peaceful form of demonstration. You're're using your own body to
Milena Ansari:change the power dynamics between the oppressor and the
Milena Ansari:victim. But sadly we see [that] collective hunger strikes are
Milena Ansari:also being faced with more retaliation by the Israeli
Milena Ansari:Prison Service. And so for example, when the prisoners
Milena Ansari:initiate a hunger strike, those who are striking are immediately
Milena Ansari:put into isolation as a form of punishment in the Israeli Prison
Milena Ansari:Service's sense that doesn't make any common sense. And they
Milena Ansari:say that since they are refusing a meal, which is in the laws and
Milena Ansari:policies of the prison, they are basically refusing to abide by
Milena Ansari:the prison rules. So they punish them by isolating them and
Milena Ansari:putting them in isolation cells. Also part of [the repression is]
Milena Ansari:not allowing them any contact or communication with the rest of
Milena Ansari:the prisoners.
Milena Ansari:Other forms of resistance by the prisoner movements other than
Milena Ansari:hunger strikes and refusing meals is they refuse to stand in
Milena Ansari:the count. The count is when the prison guards enter each prison
Milena Ansari:cell and call out the prisoners by their numbers to make sure
Milena Ansari:everyone is still in their place in their cells. And so a form
Milena Ansari:[of resisting] is refusing to stand, to obey or to listen to
Milena Ansari:them calling the prisoners.
Nicole:How is the prisoner solidarity movement, like on the
Nicole:outside? Like how is this relationship between the inside
Nicole:and the outside in Palestine?
Milena Ansari:they're intertwined. Definitely, like
Milena Ansari:whatever the situation on [the] ground outside of prison is,
Milena Ansari:does reflect on the situation inside prison and vice versa. Of
Milena Ansari:course, an example of this is there was a hunger strike that
Milena Ansari:was supposed to [be] initiate[d] in 2014. But if you remember, in
Milena Ansari:2014, there was a huge war on Gaza. And the Palestinian
Milena Ansari:community wasn't able to either focus on the hunger strike in
Milena Ansari:prison or the siege and the war on Gaza in 2014. So the
Milena Ansari:prisoners halted their hunger strike and postponed it until
Milena Ansari:after the violence against Gaza. Because, you know, the
Milena Ansari:Palestinian community tends to feel a lot. Like in May 2021,
Milena Ansari:when there were families, Palestinian families in Sheikh
Milena Ansari:Jarrah being forcibly displaced [from[ their own homes in
Milena Ansari:Jerusalem. And everyone across Palestine from the river to the
Milena Ansari:sea was revolting, and was standing up with Palestinians in
Milena Ansari:Sheikh Jarrah. We even saw cities in the occupied 1948
Milena Ansari:territories that don't usually stand up or speak up or
Milena Ansari:challenge the Israelis, because they are at the forefront with
Milena Ansari:the Israeli occupation. But for example, Al Lidd, which is a
Milena Ansari:Palestinian occupied '48 city was revolting and standing up.
Milena Ansari:We saw even people in the diaspora, Palestinians all
Milena Ansari:around the world standing up with Sheikh Jarrah, and so I can
Milena Ansari:clearly say that there is an intertwine or a reflection to
Milena Ansari:what happens outside of prison with what happens inside of
Milena Ansari:prison.
Milena Ansari:Same thing, if we talk about the vice versa. The Gilboa escape.
Milena Ansari:That happened last year, in November, where six Palestinian
Milena Ansari:prisoners from Gilboa, a maximum security prison, were able to
Milena Ansari:successfully escape this prison and sadly, they were recaptured
Milena Ansari:after that. But during that escape all the Palestinian
Milena Ansari:community across Historic Palestine, was supporting them
Milena Ansari:saying that we're here to support or take on any prisoner
Milena Ansari:or any escapee - even if they would face criminal
Milena Ansari:responsibility and criminal charges. They made sure that
Milena Ansari:whenever a prisoner needs a Palestinian, that the support
Milena Ansari:and solidarity is there. And of course, the way that
Milena Ansari:Palestinians look at prisoners, they look at them as a symbol of
Milena Ansari:resistance and a symbol of strength. Because although we
Milena Ansari:are living in an open air prison, they are living in a
Milena Ansari:very closed prison, isolated from their loved ones, their
Milena Ansari:family, and their support system. So we have to be their
Milena Ansari:support system from outside of prisons.
Nicole:And do people like receive letters? Is that
Nicole:possible? Or I know you said visits are often very
Nicole:restricted, but how do families stay in touch with their loved
Nicole:ones to prison?
Milena Ansari:Sadly, this is what the Israeli prison services
Milena Ansari:and the Israeli Apartheid settler colonial regime aims for
Milena Ansari:regarding prisoners, they aim to isolate them. So when we talk
Milena Ansari:about, do they get letters from their loved ones and whatnot?
Milena Ansari:The answer is simply no. It's possible to send letters but the
Milena Ansari:Israeli prison services will open each letter, read it
Milena Ansari:through, and if they feel like any sentence or any word is
Milena Ansari:misplaced, or might motivate the Palestinians, or support them in
Milena Ansari:a way that the Israelis don't want the prisoners to have
Milena Ansari:support, they don't give the letter to the prisoner. So it
Milena Ansari:stops with the Israeli prison guard that looks into the
Milena Ansari:letter. So it's possible to send, but it's not really
Milena Ansari:possible that the prisoner will receive the letter at the end of
Milena Ansari:the day. And this is all part of restriction like by the way even
Milena Ansari:books, educational books, even the Quran - which is the Holy
Milena Ansari:Bible - is sometimes refused to enter the prison. Or even if we
Milena Ansari:want like different religious books - not the only the Quran -
Milena Ansari:they don't allow religious books. They don't allow history
Milena Ansari:books inside prison, any like chemistry or physics books? They
Milena Ansari:use the allegation or the narrative of security reasons.
Milena Ansari:But we know all of this is part of educating the Palestinian
Milena Ansari:community, because inside prison, there's no education
Milena Ansari:system provided by the Israeli prison services. And it's
Milena Ansari:completely banned.
Nicole:So in that regard, like we had the insight into reading
Nicole:one of your reports about prisoner education, and it was
Nicole:super inspiring all this organising and pressure
Nicole:campaigns to access education, including the development of a
Nicole:university! could you share a little bit about that?
Milena Ansari:And so inside prison, the Israeli Prison
Milena Ansari:Services completely deny the Palestinian prisoners and
Milena Ansari:detainees the right to education, the right to continue
Milena Ansari:their education. So any educational books or study
Milena Ansari:groups are banned, and the prisoners can be punished for
Milena Ansari:[trying to access them], either by isolation or banning them
Milena Ansari:from prison, from family visits, or phone calls to their
Milena Ansari:families. And so what the the prisoner movement did - and this
Milena Ansari:is one of the success stories of the Palestinian prisoners'
Milena Ansari:movement - is that they established their own university
Milena Ansari:educational system, where they also work remotely with Al Quds
Milena Ansari:University in Abu Dis. But this educational system is restricted
Milena Ansari:[to] a few topics, like a few fields of education, like social
Milena Ansari:sciences, and I believe political science as well.
Milena Ansari:Social Sciences and Political Science and Social Studies,
Milena Ansari:Psychology, things that have do with math, or physics or biology
Milena Ansari:or whatnot. Because these are banned by the Israeli Prison
Milena Ansari:Services. So when I say that they have established their own
Milena Ansari:system, it's really important to note that the Israeli Prison
Milena Ansari:Services, up, until this point, have allowed this to happen. But
Milena Ansari:at any moment, they can hold every Palestinian prisoner who
Milena Ansari:goes into this establishment of the like the study courses and
Milena Ansari:the cultural courses - they can punish them because at the end
Milena Ansari:of the day it's still illegal, but for some reason, they're
Milena Ansari:shutting a blind eye at it. And of course, this education system
Milena Ansari:was established by the Palestinian political prisoner
Milena Ansari:and Legislative Council Member Marwan Barghouti, and he had
Milena Ansari:[an] important role in this. And he led the prisoner movement
Milena Ansari:with this educational system.
Nicole:So in the UK, we have one of the most privatised
Nicole:prison systems in the world. We have a lot of private companies
Nicole:making massive profits from imprisoning people. And I'm
Nicole:aware that one of those companies G4S has also worked in
Nicole:Palestine. Could you share a little bit about that?
Nicole:Maybe I'll connect it to something very recent I read
Milena Ansari:The G4S campaign actually is also another success
Milena Ansari:story for the BDS [Boycorr, Divestment and Sanctions]
Milena Ansari:Movement. Because in the past, I believe in 2014-2016, the G4S
Milena Ansari:campaign - which is a security surveillance company that runs
Milena Ansari:in different prisons across the world, and Israeli prison
Milena Ansari:services used to use G4S in their own prison systems. There
Milena Ansari:was a huge campaign against G4S asking them, and calling them to
Milena Ansari:end their ties with the Israeli occupation, because of their
Milena Ansari:violations of human rights. And this is where we see the line
Milena Ansari:between private companies and human rights come together.
Milena Ansari:Because we cannot say that businesses or companies should
Milena Ansari:not abide by human rights, law and international principles. On
Milena Ansari:the contrary, they play a huge and important role in really
Milena Ansari:facilitating and playing an integral role in the oppression
Milena Ansari:about, which is Ben and Jerry's, the ice cream company. And very
Milena Ansari:recently, I think last week, officially, they won the lawsuit
Milena Ansari:and domination of the people. So thankfully, up until now, the
Milena Ansari:where they took control over stopping their products - Ben
Milena Ansari:G4S have withdrawn their surveillance and their
Milena Ansari:and Jerry's, an ice cream company - [stopping] their
Milena Ansari:products in Israeli settlements. The mother company of Ben and
Milena Ansari:technology systems from Israeli prisons, but I do acknowledge
Milena Ansari:Jerry's, refused this act, and wanted to hold them responsible
Milena Ansari:And what do you think is the role of the international
Milena Ansari:community in terms of prisoner solidarity and prisoner support
Milena Ansari:for stopping their products in an Israeli settlement. But after
Milena Ansari:and I can say it clearly that training sessions between G4S
Milena Ansari:in Palestine?
Milena Ansari:following up with legal procedures, and really not
Milena Ansari:bowing down to the bullying of the Israeli occupation, and also
Milena Ansari:Israeli lobbying around the world, they won the case. And
Milena Ansari:and Israeli Prison Services or Israeli security intelligence is
Milena Ansari:they were able to officially decide and announce that they
Milena Ansari:will not have any of their products in Israeli settlements.
Milena Ansari:still ongoing. So while they pulled their services from
Milena Ansari:So this is what we need to focus on, is that no matter how big,
Milena Ansari:or how small,. Whether it is security and technology in
Milena Ansari:prisons, they're still complicit somehow, by training and giving
Milena Ansari:prisons, or ice cream, it really plays a role in maintaining the
Milena Ansari:oppression on the Palestinian people and sustaining the
Milena Ansari:Israeli apartheid regime. So in order to really tackle the root
Milena Ansari:workshops to the Israeli occupation. This is why the
Milena Ansari:cause of what's happening here in Palestine, each country or
Milena Ansari:power of BDS is important. Because it's not only about the
Milena Ansari:each company needs to really self-criticise their work and
Milena Ansari:self note, how are they complicit and playing an
Milena Ansari:clear violations that we see, but it's also what happens under
Milena Ansari:integral role into the occupation of the Palestinian
Milena Ansari:people. And trust me, when this happens, when companies start
Milena Ansari:the table. It's these training sessions that are also embedded
Milena Ansari:opening their eyes and holding Israel accountable for human
Milena Ansari:rights violations, Israel will understand the pressure from the
Milena Ansari:international community.
Milena Ansari:in the Israeli occupation, the ways of domination and
Milena Ansari:oppression. And it all needs to end.
Milena Ansari:And I know this is possible because, when Russia invaded
Milena Ansari:parts of Ukraine and established a war, and started stealing
Milena Ansari:lands in Ukraine, European countries did not stop to think
Milena Ansari:for a second [before] boycott[ing], sanction[ing] and
Milena Ansari:divest[ing] from Russia and Russian companies. So we know
Milena Ansari:it's possible, with political will and with political
Milena Ansari:intention. And we just want the same treatment, of how the
Milena Ansari:international community is treating different racial groups
Milena Ansari:or different nationalities - to treat Palestinians minimum the
Milena Ansari:same. It's not because we're jealous, or we want to be
Milena Ansari:treated as Europeans or whatnot. It's basic human rights. It's a
Milena Ansari:legal, and it's a moral obligation on the countries
Milena Ansari:around the world, to hold Israel accountable for their human
Milena Ansari:rights violations, instead of shedding a blind eye and
Milena Ansari:constantly giving impunity to their violations. Because this
Milena Ansari:silence only tells Israel, we're giving you the green-light to
Milena Ansari:continue on doing whatever you're doing, and even expanding
Milena Ansari:on doing that. So there's a big role [for] the international
Milena Ansari:community, ending their silence. And it starts with basically
Milena Ansari:ending their silence.
Milena Ansari:For the prisoners movement, solidarity is not only during
Milena Ansari:hunger strikes, this is what I really want to focus on. Because
Milena Ansari:in the type of work I do, I always interact with the
Milena Ansari:international community, I always talk or report on cases
Milena Ansari:of the hunger striking detainee, or a detainee under medical
Milena Ansari:neglect or a woman in prison or a child. We talk about the
Milena Ansari:policies, the systematic policies, and sadly, no one
Milena Ansari:hears us when we're talking about policies. But when we say
Milena Ansari:there's a detainee under imminent threat of death, that
Milena Ansari:there is a child who was subjected to torture, or there
Milena Ansari:was a woman who was subjected to rape, like when we are extremely
Milena Ansari:clear about the cases, do we see people wanting to interact and
Milena Ansari:wanting to work and wanting to save this specific case? But
Milena Ansari:sadly, that's not how we will deal with the prisoners issue.
Milena Ansari:Because it's not only one prisoner, it's not two
Milena Ansari:prisoners. It's 4700 prisoners all facing the same policies of
Milena Ansari:discrimination and oppression.
Milena Ansari:So when You want to stand with Palestinian prisoners, you have
Milena Ansari:to stand against the policies stand against prosecuting
Milena Ansari:Palestinian civilians in Israeli military courts that lack any
Milena Ansari:guarantee of fair trial standards, because violations of
Milena Ansari:their rights starts from them. Starts when a military judge
Milena Ansari:whose most of the time an Israeli military officer and
Milena Ansari:most of the time an Israeli settler is ruling using Israeli
Milena Ansari:military orders against a Palestinian. So basically,
Milena Ansari:there's no real justice or accountability in the Israeli
Milena Ansari:judicial system. It's just a system that plays an integral
Milena Ansari:role in facilitating all these policies and all this
Milena Ansari:oppression.
Milena Ansari:So if the international community wants to stand with
Milena Ansari:Palestinian prisoners, they have to stand against the Israeli
Milena Ansari:apartheid regime, they have to stand against settler
Milena Ansari:colonialism. Because as long as the idea - or the ideology - of
Milena Ansari:settler colonialism is deeply rooted in the State of Israel,
Milena Ansari:political prisoners will emerge over and over again. Violations
Milena Ansari:of the rights will continue on happening. So in order to really
Milena Ansari:support prisoners, we need to support the Palestinian people
Milena Ansari:in general. Stand against prosecuting Palestinian
Milena Ansari:prisoners in military courts, stand against the military
Milena Ansari:regime that's implemented against Palestinians in the West
Milena Ansari:Bank, and stand against the racist policies of the Israeli
Milena Ansari:apartheid regime.
Nicole:So how do you think that kind of like situation has
Nicole:changed over time here? I know [from] doing prisoner solidarity
Nicole:work a long time, it often feels extremely depressing, that
Nicole:things just seem to get worse and worse. And obviously, you've
Nicole:talked about some successes in your struggles and your
Nicole:organising. But how do you think it's changed? And how do you
Nicole:think it might continue to change?
Milena Ansari:So I don't want to be pessimistic at all. I want
Milena Ansari:to be [as] realistic as possible. I have been working
Milena Ansari:with Addameer for three years now. And I can say, from this
Milena Ansari:short period of time, three years, the situation has been
Milena Ansari:ten times worse, it has been increasingly escalating with
Milena Ansari:violence with the numbers of prisoners with the policies that
Milena Ansari:the Israeli Prison Services use. And sadly, it's very
Milena Ansari:disappointing. It's very sad. It's very unfortunate. And if I
Milena Ansari:want to say who is to respond to be responsible, I'm not the type
Milena Ansari:of person who likes to blame others. But I do want to shed
Milena Ansari:light at the role of the international community. Because
Milena Ansari:when the the prisoners' movement first emerged, there wasn't much
Milena Ansari:solidarity and much support [for] the prisoner movement.
Milena Ansari:Like the international community would still argue that
Milena Ansari:Palestinians are in prison because of the safety of the
Milena Ansari:State of Israel. We would still hear these arguments, justifying
Milena Ansari:the brutality inside prisons, by saying [it is] to save the
Milena Ansari:security of Israel. And so I believe, sadly, the impunity of
Milena Ansari:the international community has allowed Israel to continue on
Milena Ansari:doing what they're doing, and even expanding more and more. As
Milena Ansari:I mentioned before, but really, I'm being completely realistic.
Milena Ansari:Like when I first started with Addameer, I was talking about
Milena Ansari:300 Palestinian administrative detainees. So those who are
Milena Ansari:detained without a charge without a trial, based on secret
Milena Ansari:information and indefinite time. There are 300 of them during the
Milena Ansari:first time I started three years ago. But now if you asked me,
Milena Ansari:what is the number of administrative detainees, it's
Milena Ansari:835. And that's within three years, this number, I think,
Milena Ansari:doubled even within two years, the situation is definitely
Milena Ansari:getting worse, even with the Gilboa escape last year. We are
Milena Ansari:seeing the Israeli Prison Services implement more policies
Milena Ansari:of retaliation against the prisoners. So they even started
Milena Ansari:with the recent policy where one prisoner cannot stay in their
Milena Ansari:own cell... more than three months, and they cannot stay in
Milena Ansari:the same prison more than six months. So they're even trying
Milena Ansari:to really mess up the whole life inside prison, where it's always
Milena Ansari:uncertainty. There's always unknowing, and the future of the
Milena Ansari:prisoners inside prison is always left at the hands of the
Milena Ansari:Israeli Prison Services sadly. So I don't want to be sounding
Milena Ansari:very pessimistic but it's the situation on ground, it's
Milena Ansari:deteriorating day by day.
Nicole:Recently, we went to a demonstration with some mothers
Nicole:whose children were in prison. I just wondered, you know, we have
Nicole:we have, like children prisoners in the UK from the age of 12. We
Nicole:can be in prison. But I know here it's like on a completely
Nicole:different scale. How many children are in prison? And I
Nicole:just wondered what the situation is [for] child prisoners?
Milena Ansari:When we want to talk about Palestinian children,
Milena Ansari:prisoners and detainees. Actually, it's the most brutal
Milena Ansari:and the saddest, topic or issue regarding the Palestinian
Milena Ansari:prisoners' movement, because yes, even here, children as
Milena Ansari:young as 12, could be prosecuted and put in prison. And there is
Milena Ansari:a juvenile system, or a juvenile judicial system, implemented by
Milena Ansari:the Israeli occupation, but there's no actual application of
Milena Ansari:it, like in reality on ground, the same court that looks into
Milena Ansari:prosecuting a Palestinian [adult], regardless of what age,
Milena Ansari:is the same that looks into prosecuting Palestinian
Milena Ansari:children. So this juvenile system only exists in words and
Milena Ansari:writing but not in real implementation. There are around
Milena Ansari:160 Palestinian children in prison. Four of them are placed
Milena Ansari:under administrative detention. So four children are placed
Milena Ansari:without charge without trial under secret information! [final