In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Thomas Kunjappu sits down with Alim Dhanji, CHRO at TD SYNNEX, whose career spans HR, finance, M&A, and even serving as President of Adidas Canada.

From leading through supply chain crises to running startups and now driving an AI-first HR transformation, Alim shares how curiosity, simplicity, and critical thinking have shaped his leadership across every function.

He talks about reimagining HR as a series of products, helping teams overcome fear of AI through experimentation, and building a “super worker” culture—where technology multiplies human capability instead of replacing it.

Alim also reflects on why this is the most exciting moment to be in HR, how leaders can simplify for impact, and how embracing AI literacy and critical reasoning can redefine the next generation of people leadership.

Topics Discussed:

• Reframing HR as a product-driven function.
• Building an AI-first, digitally enabled HR team.
• Turning resistance to AI into experimentation and learning.
• Simplifying HR programs for real business impact.
• The rise of the “super worker” and the fall of technical gatekeeping.
• Why critical thinking is HR’s most future-proof skill.
• How AI creates capacity for more human leadership.

If you’re rethinking what it means to lead HR in the age of AI, this conversation with Alim Dhanji offers a rare look at transformation from both sides of the business—where strategy meets empathy, and technology powers people to do their best work.

Additional Resources:

• Cleary’s AI-powered HR Chatbot
• Future Proof HR Community
• Connect with Alim Dhanji on LinkedIn

I do think that this is the moment where HR

2

professionals and HR leaders can

have a greater impact, not only in

3

business, but helping to channel and shape

some of the implications of AI in society.

4

We shouldn't forget that.

5

And I think that creates purpose because

it is going to change the swim lanes

6

of how people graduate, how people

learn, how many people are employed.

7

Thomas Kunjappu: Hello and welcome to the

Future Proof HR podcast, where we explore

8

how forward-thinking leaders are preparing

for disruption and redefining what it

9

means to lead people in a changing world.

10

I'm your host, Thomas

Kunjappu, CEO of Cleary.

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Today's guest is Alim Dhanji,

CHRO at TD SYNNEX, a dynamic HR

12

leader and business executive

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whose unconventional career spans

multiple industries and functions.

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Alim has moved in and out of HR roles,

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serving as president of Adidas Canada,

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leading M&A strategy,

stepping into CFO duties,

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and even running a tech startup.

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Now as a seasoned CHRO, Alim

brings together commercial

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acumen, strategic HR leadership,

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and is even driving

AI-driven transformations.

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So he believes that

today's HR leaders must go

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beyond traditional functional

boundaries, using AI to deepen

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business understanding and becoming

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indispensable strategic partners

to the C-suite and the board.

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Alim, welcome to the podcast.

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Alim Dhanji: Thank you, Thomas.

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So wonderful to be here.

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I appreciate you inviting me.

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Thomas Kunjappu: So right off the bat, you

have a very unconventional career, I would

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say, coming in and out of HR in many ways.

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Could you tell us a little bit about that?

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Alim Dhanji: Sure.

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It wasn't designed that way, certainly.

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I've been in the workforce

now for roughly 27 years.

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And I've always been entrepreneurial

minded because of family upbringing.

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And I've always had this insatiable

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appetite for curiosity and

different cultures, et cetera.

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So I think that has ignited a growth

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mindset and constant

questioning of different

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operating models and

business environments.

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And so, yes, I started

out in HR and then I

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ended up taking a role in Asia,

moved to Hong Kong and got exposed

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to M&A type of work, which was

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fascinating, hyper-competitive,

especially in that part of the world.

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That only continued to spur my

curiosity for getting into business.

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And then I went to KPMG, where a year into

the role, I found myself also then leading

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finance, which was never in the cards,

but it certainly gave me a different lens.

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I went back into HR.

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Then I went to run a dating

app with the founder.

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That was phenomenal.

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That's probably a different

podcast on its own.

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You go along with these different

tours of duty and pick up

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not only a lens, but different

skills, different points of

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understanding around how to lead a team

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of engineers or how to elevate the role

that finance plays an organization.

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that kind

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of has been a pattern in my role.

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And then most recently, I was in the head

office of Adidas in a head of talent role.

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And my CEO asked me to take on

the president of Adidas Canada,

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which was phenomenal because

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especially the senior you get

transferring to that kind of organization.

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role is very rare and the

stakes are probably higher.

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But I did it nonetheless.

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And not only

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that, it was in the midst of COVID, it was

in the midst of supply chain disruption.

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So lots of

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opportunity for crucibles

and really learning.

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But now I find myself back in HR.

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My passion is people

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and culture, but I feel that because

of the different business rotations

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I've done, I can bring a unique lens

and elevate in doing so as well.

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Thomas Kunjappu: When you talk through

that trajectory, the question of

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identity almost comes to mind for me.

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a lot of folks define themselves

as let's say, I'm a student

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or I am an HR professional or an

athlete a specific in the work world.

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Like been in a specific function

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and I'm entrenched and really investing

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in what's happening in

this particular expertise.

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And how do you think of yourself?

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And maybe this is more belying my biases

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because maybe you don't

even think in this way

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in the professional world

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and you're talking about curiosity.

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But how do you, especially as you

go through these moments of pivot

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in terms of what you're actually

doing, did you find the way you

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identify yourself a shift in any major way

or did that, was that not even a question?

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Alim Dhanji: Probably

not an overt question.

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I think if anything, if I had to

pick a title, it would be student.

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It's lifelong learning.

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And having gone from large

corporates like Citigroup, where

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you've got nearly 300,000 people

across 180 countries, to a

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startup with 100 people, you've

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got to be agile and thoughtful

around how you show up and how

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you open yourself for learning.

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I went to KPMG, where it's a partnership

and across different sectors.

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So I think when you're

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doing that,

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the underlying red thread

is that you're a student.

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You're constantly learning and picking

up best practices and giving back.

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But I guess, yeah, I guess to

your question more specifically,

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am proud to be an HR leader.

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And the funny thing is when

I left HR to go to business

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and then came back to HR,

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a lot of the people in HR

said, why would you do that?

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Almost like it's a

negative to go back to HR.

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And the reality is where that is

where a lot of the change in the

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forward-looking business models are going.

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Think about the impact of AI,

demographic changes, geopolitics.

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They all have a massive influence

around how people show up.

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So being in HR, I think that this

is the perfect time to be in HR.

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Thomas Kunjappu: That's

a great perspective.

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And maybe another way to get at

the question is you mentioned the

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concept of tours of duty and

came from the military, but

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also in the corporate setting.

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Your typical employee is not

doing 25 years on a watch.

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You're going in, which was

the career path, right?

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You could start off right out of

high school or college and you work

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your way through to retirement.

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And there's a clear trajectory

and a career ladder.

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Companies have career ladders now,

but it's not for a specific person.

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It's more for the organization because...

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because people are coming in and

out and doing these tours of duty.

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Do you think that is becoming a

more central part, central to how

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HR professionals are developing?

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Alim Dhanji: I think so.

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I talk about tours of duty, they

can be within one organization.

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If you've got a large organization,

you can go from corporate

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functions to a P&L role,

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or you can go through different

functions to a P&L role, or you

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can go through different rotations

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within a corporate function.

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Also, I think you can go

to different countries

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if you're global environment.

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And so the learning can be constant.

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And it's not so much about a ladder,

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it's more about a lattice.

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It's about navigating the organization

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and picking up new capabilities

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and expanding your

employability in doing so as

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well.

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I do think that is a new generation.

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The new generation is also thinking about

leaving the company and coming back.

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So lots of boomerangs, then

there's gig works and portfolio.

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So this whole notion of portfolio

life, which is fascinating.

145

So I do think that the

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traditional one organization

career ladder is no

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longer case.

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Thomas Kunjappu: So let's talk

about business impact and how

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the HR role is changing a little

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bit.

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And especially with the lens that you've

had coming in and that title, do you think

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your experience is shaping your

view of like HR's role specifically

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within the organization?

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Alim Dhanji: Yeah.

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So on one hand, when I stepped into the

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President of Adidas Canada role,

I was now on the receiving end of

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what I was pushing out from the

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talent role.

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And the team is fantastic.

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think that the team

produced ton of great value.

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But sometimes when you're removed from

the front line, you focus more on best

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practice and conceptual and strategy.

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And so what I found now is I was

receiving those best practices.

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But at the end of the day, the store

manager in their mid-20s has half

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an hour a week to absorb corporate

functions are putting on the

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marketing, loss prevention, finance.

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Everyone's giving them something.

168

So my 30-page or 20-page

deck is not going to land.

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It's got to be pragmatic.

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It's got to be simple.

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It's got to be executable.

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And so I think lens by which I

look at how HR is being delivered

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has changed phenomenally,

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like fundamentally.

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it is about simplification.

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It is about impact and driving results,

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not just about best practice.

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Thomas Kunjappu: love this framing

and I'd love to push you to go, if

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you can give me any kind of specifics,

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is there something, if you want

to put yourself in the hot seat,

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something that you were

delivering in an earlier time

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as on the HR side to the business side

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that you feel like, oh, if

it was done this way instead,

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the impact would be more direct

or more actionable or more useful?

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Alim Dhanji: I think

there could be a range of

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products.

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I just pick on one, program

like onboarding, right?

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All the best practice say

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that when someone comes into

the organization, it's about

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balancing the hearts and minds and

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culture and what is the

company about, et cetera.

192

Yes, that is true, but it

is also true that person

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who's coming in to sell shoes and

shirts needs to be operational

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within the hour kind of thing.

195

we don't always have the luxury in

all roles to embed yourself in a

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week long learning about the culture.

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So I think that now, especially

with technology, we can reimagine

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what is onboarding and how

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does it start before you even

show up on the first day so

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that you give micro learnings

201

in advance.

202

But also, perhaps it's getting

them operational first, and

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then throughout their journey,

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Perhaps it's getting them operational

first and then throughout their

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journey, give them the right doses

of culture, inspiration, or what

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is the company about, rather than

bombarding them just from the start.

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Just one practical example.

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And it's not necessarily a profound thing,

but when you have a number of different

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HR programs, they start to compound.

210

this is one way to simplify.

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Thomas Kunjappu: And looking at it

from the customer's point of view,

212

it's like when they start to compound,

you look at it from store clerk's

213

point of view, what just happened.

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I just spent a

215

week in a room consuming all these like

PowerPoints, which then you forget about.

216

That's a classic way to do it.

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So then let's talk about

AI a little bit more.

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How do you see just AI

changing the way HR is done?

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Alim Dhanji: You can't have a discussion

any day of the week without talking

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about AI.

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And it's, yes, there's a lot of AI

opportunity within HR, but quite frankly,

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permeating right across the organization

in every function, country, every role.

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But if I look

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at HR specifically, I started

this role about 16 months ago.

225

And within the first 90 days, of course,

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after listening and paying attention

to what people need in the company,

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I got together with my senior

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HR leadership team and

we created a bold vision.

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And it started off with,

we will be an AI first

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digitally enabled HR function.

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And my entire team was not with me.

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They rejected that and I

didn't want to be directive,

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so I let it simmer for a couple of months.

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But as time went on and

everything that's happening now

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around how HR is absorbing AI,

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whether it's recruitment

or learning or onboarding,

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it's becoming real.

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And so I didn't force it

through, but I did set the bar.

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And what I found was that the

HR team grabbed onto the AI

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first digitally enabled concept.

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And now they love it, right?

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Because it set the tone around

how we support the business.

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And every product that we look at, so

look at HR as a series of products.

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And therefore, how do

you manage each product?

245

And what is the design

thinking, et cetera?

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business.

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And every product that we look

at, so I look at HR as a series

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of products and therefore

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how do you manage each product and

what is the design thinking, et cetera.

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So we're looking literally at every

product to say, if we had to scrap

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this product and rebuild it, how would

we look at it with an AI first lens?

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done that with learning.

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We're now doing that with recruitment.

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And I can't wait to get started

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on performance because I think

that is going to be such a huge

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unlock around how we think about AI

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enablement through performance.

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But I could go on and on.

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The biggest area I think is probably

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unlocking transactional services

that HR is just so mired in.

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And there are so many platforms out there,

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but that look at automating and digitizing

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and creating consumer-grade experiences

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for your workforce to

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transact within, with the company,

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that just then creates all this capacity

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for HR to do different things.

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So there's both an effectiveness

269

and an efficiency agenda for HR when

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it comes to AI.

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Thomas Kunjappu: Like with some of

the examples around like learning

272

or recruitment, like there's,

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you could improve the candidate

or employee experience through

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these programs beyond what

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you were able to do with the

resources you had available.

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But then on the other hand, for example,

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with HR service delivery and

tickets and answering questions

278

that can actually be more efficient,

279

but also better for

employees at the same time.

280

I want to hone in on a

little sub challenge that

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you've started talking about

there, which is bringing team

282

along in a transformation as a

283

mindset to be, let's say, be AI

native in this case, which there

284

is resistance, I think, across

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the organization.

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Like you said,

287

AI is impacting every

part of the organization.

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But let's stay specifically within HR.

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How did

290

you think about guiding your team in this

direction, being firm, but also open?

291

If you're talking to your peers who are

at the CHRO level, have that mindset, and

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at the organization level, there's this

buy-in towards reimagining the function.

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How would you go about translating

that into the organization

294

itself or the function itself?

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Alim Dhanji: Yeah.

296

So I think it's important

always to role model first.

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So I would share in our town halls,

even in our day-to-day interactions,

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how I'm using AI to

make myself productive.

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And it could be the most simple

example or something that's

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just innovative and complex.

301

There are AI applications

out there where you

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could take a pretty dense annual report or

financial statement and put it in there.

303

And it will produce a two-minute

podcast that you can listen

304

to, which is in layman's terms.

305

So what would normally take you

maybe 90 minutes to absorb and

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dense reading, not so exciting,

307

you now have the gist of it within

a couple of minutes, which then

308

sharpens your financial acumen.

309

So I think you can go into a

meeting that much more prepared.

310

But what else I did is with the team,

311

We did a global hackathon.

312

Alim Dhanji: This was almost about

eight or nine months ago, but we...

313

We gave this challenge over 72 hours

to all HR colleagues around the world

314

and said, come up with different ideas

of how you could leverage AI, whether

315

it's efficiency or it's effectiveness.

316

We want to hear them all.

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had no idea what we were going to get.

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I wasn't expecting any silver bullets.

319

But what was amazing was that everyone

rallied and we got over 100 ideas and

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we picked the top 10 that we would then

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move forward for potential use cases.

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That is great.

323

It's great to get that short list of 10,

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but what is even greater was just giving

people space and time to experiment

325

and to try something different

and get comfortable with it.

326

The resistance comes from the unknown.

327

And there is a lot of fear because

the immediate thing that people go to

328

when you talk about AI is it's just

for technologists, which I am not,

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or it's going to take over my job.

330

And so why would I?

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I found the experimentation really helped.

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And then the third area is

about skills enablement.

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And there is no shortage of this.

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I don't think you need to

create that internally.

335

You can go on MIT, Google.

336

There's so many different options where

you could just go online and learn

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for free about different forms of AI.

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And if you're just using ChatGPT,

I think you're using like half a

339

percentage point of what's really

available out there, right?

340

So I think those three, there's

341

probably more, but those three, I

would definitely say are fundamental

342

and foundational in setting the

343

tone around

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AI.

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Thomas Kunjappu: So then have you had

any reactions from the either HR teams or

346

even we can go broader to the organization

as well, because we're talking about a

347

whole workforce that is shifting, right,

and adapting to AI in their day to day.

348

Any stories from the trenches?

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Alim Dhanji: Yeah.

350

Shortly after I was visiting our

offices in Munich and I sat there

351

and there were some presentations

and our head of comp for the region

352

said, Oh, I want to show you.

353

I just created our own

little GPT for comp.

354

And that excited me.

355

And what he did was one of the things

that comp people get quite often are

356

job reviews, position profiles, because,

you know, you're going to reevaluate

357

them and reassign a grade and then

attach a comp profile against it.

358

And it's rinse and

repeat type of analysis.

359

But now a GPT can do this.

360

You load the job description,

it will analyze it against a set

361

of variables that are defined.

362

And then with the data from comp

surveys say, this job really looks

363

like it's this grade.

364

And if it's this grade, then

it'll be this comp range, right?

365

So normally human intervention, probably a

couple hours with GPT, it's probably five

366

to 10 minutes of some back

and forth, which then frees up

367

capacity for the comp person

368

and delights the manager that's.

369

requesting it because they

get it really quickly.

370

And probably you're

going to get additional

371

intelligence from that chat interface

that you might not have had.

372

So that was one really great

373

example.

374

On the other hand, I also got

feedback that, oh, wow, I'm

375

scared because my job all day

376

is to write job profiles.

377

And now ChatGPT can

write it in 30 seconds.

378

So that gives an opportunity

for us to have an open dialogue.

379

And I don't want it to be threatening.

380

So I don't want them to feel that

they're going to be exited next week.

381

I want to give them time

and capacity to reskill.

382

And I think that is an accountability and

something that leaders need to lean into

383

so that we make sure that re-skilling

384

is a benefit.

385

And I got this from Tanuj,

who is CHRO and had a brand at

386

Standard Charter, because this

387

notion of re-skilling as a

benefit for employability is

388

fascinating, especially now.

389

If you've got a workforce that's

a bit nervous around what's going

390

to happen to them, then we have a

responsibility as leaders to reskill

391

and improve their employability.

392

This has been a fantastic

conversation so far.

393

If you haven't already done so,

make sure to join our community.

394

We are building a network of the

most forward-thinking, HR and

395

people, operational professionals

who are defining the future.

396

I will personally be sharing

news and ideas around how we

397

can all thrive in the age of ai.

398

You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary

399

community.

400

Now back to the show.

401

Thomas Kunjappu: And while it is

a responsibility, it can also be a

402

competitive advantage in the labor

market if you are doing it well and are

403

making that promise, especially in this

market, that's a great point and a good

404

reframing of reskilling and

actually the L&D work and tying

405

that HR function does, but

tying that to the engagement and

406

outcome metrics potentially for

407

the organization.

408

But let's talk beyond AI to

just the future of how this

409

function is kind of moving,

410

But kind of moving, because in line

with your background of being curious,

411

being a student, working with the

business as a client in HR, but then

412

also being on that client side or on

the business owning P&Ls or trying to

413

make things happen on a tactical level.

414

How do you think HR professionals can go

from this tactical execution, which is an

415

administration, which has been the

hallmark for a while, to becoming

416

more influential, becoming true

417

business partners within the organization?

418

Alim Dhanji: Yeah.

419

So I always think about,

maybe it's the M&A

420

background in me, but do you divest?

421

What do you acquire?

422

What do you give up?

423

What do you pick up?

424

And so I do think that we're all

constrained in terms of time.

425

Finding an hour in the week is

426

difficult at best.

427

And so you have to figure out how you're

going to divest and whether, again,

428

going back to AI, if you can

leverage AI to make yourself more

429

productive so that you can carve out

430

an extra hour or 90 minutes in your week,

431

then that liberates you

to pick up something new.

432

And if you're sharpening

your P&L or financial

433

or business acumen, I think

the one greatest benefit of

434

AI is that it has technology.

435

taken down the gatekeeping

of technical expertise.

436

Right?

437

If I'm going into a meeting and

I'm, and actually this is a true

438

scenario where we're redesigning

439

or reimagining some of our

compensation programs in equity,

440

which is so hardwired to our financial

441

metrics.

442

And we want to be innovative,

but also want to be in compliance

443

with, we're a public company,

444

not a private equity.

445

But I could use chat GPT or

other forms of AI to really

446

teach myself around why looking

447

at free cash flow versus return

on equity or certain type of other

448

financial metric, you can quickly have

a discussion that gives you the right

449

confidence and capability to

have that sort of debate with

450

the CFO or other leaders.

451

So technical

452

gatekeeping is now no longer an issue.

453

And so you don't necessarily

have to go to business school.

454

Sure, going to business school

teaches you things and it gives you a

455

broader depth.

456

But if you're at a career level where you

don't want to go back to business school,

457

I think AI is a big unlock.

458

And I think that should be leveraged.

459

Thomas Kunjappu: I just want to go

deeper on this particular use case,

460

because I think from a couple of angles,

461

first of all, I think there's a

good example of the kind of thing

462

that deeper new work that AI,

463

it's an example potentially of a

new work that AI enables because

464

it's very easy to think about

465

the kind of work that we're

doing today that goes away.

466

But in this case, I would argue there's a

467

kind of thing that maybe wouldn't

really get done maybe at a public

468

company with a major huge ROI

469

to getting the comp

structure exactly right.

470

But for a lot of other

companies, this kind of work

471

may not actually ever get done.

472

Or if it does, in this case,

you're doing some complex modeling

473

about how the compensation

474

program might impact free cash

flow or the return on stock.

475

And those things would really, I

would imagine in yesteryear, involve

476

meetings, including someone in financial

operations or an analyst who is saying,

477

okay, now you've got some homework.

478

Come back with a model or build a

custom spreadsheet where we can make

479

some tweaks, make some assumptions

and have a bunch of meetings together.

480

But that could happen by yourself

more dynamically and you can get some

481

answers more rapidly, which I think

the other part of what you're saying

482

is it also is helping you.

483

If you're curious, it's not

just about doing things,

484

it's also about teaching

you things, right?

485

So you should be able to

use general purpose AI

486

to help you learn areas of the business.

487

I guess in this case,

488

we're talking about just

how to read a P&L statement

489

and also the impact of the,

490

in this case, compensation

and how it would impact that.

491

But really, arguably

any product, as you say,

492

or program from HR, if you want

to match it to, or think about

493

ROI or think about how it impacts

494

the P&L, you could do a similar

kind of exercise and teach yourself.

495

that.

496

Alim Dhanji: And it applies

to so many different areas.

497

I've implemented value change

initiatives in other companies.

498

And in the past, especially in

global companies, when you're rolling

499

out values, it's not just about

500

the organizational corporate layer.

501

It is how are those values going to sit

in Mexico versus China versus Botswana.

502

And typically, you would have

had to spend a small fortune

503

on an external consultant who

504

has a background in anthropology

or whatever to stress test it

505

for you and give you a report

506

that says, this is where we have concerns

and this is what you should consider.

507

We just did that.

508

We implemented our values.

509

In fact, we're launching them next week.

510

And before we had the discussion at

the ELT, we put it through a GPT.

511

And I said, we operate in these countries.

512

We want to make sure that our coworkers

understand and connect to the values,

513

which countries should I anticipate

sensitivity and what I got back was

514

something amazing and it was a table

515

that helped me think through things

and I and I met with each of the

516

presidents in our regions and I

517

shared them they said yes that's

exactly correct and we should

518

think about this word being a bit

519

too aggressive in some parts of

the world this might be perceived

520

as a dare or we have dare to go

521

that might be perceived

be perceived as a threat.

522

So how do we augment that?

523

And so that it was

together, we dare and go.

524

And that makes it a

little bit more accepting.

525

But that piece of work, A,

would have taken us weeks to do.

526

It would probably cost $100,000.

527

And we did this in a couple hours.

528

Right?

529

So productivity, efficiency,

effectiveness, speed.

530

So you delight the CEO because you got

this sorted within a short period of time.

531

I could give you endless examples

of how AI is changing everyone's

532

role and how they could lean in and

be more effective and efficient.

533

Thomas Kunjappu: So if you take all

of these, there's so many use cases

534

and examples that we were just like

535

peppering in throughout, right?

536

If you add them up all together

and you look to the future,

537

what is the function look like?

538

Do you imagine?

539

Let's say, give it a

five-year horizon, right?

540

What is going to be different about what

people are doing tactically, day-to-day?

541

What's being demanded or what is a demand

sucked in from both employees and boards

542

and executive teams from the function?

543

And of course, how can we

all get ready for that.

544

Alim Dhanji: Yeah.

545

So the notion of super worker,

I think it is true, but

546

connecting the super worker to a

547

unlock of technical gatekeeping

for various disciplines then

548

creates an opportunity for

549

those that excel in critical thinking and

550

change leadership, reasoning, articulating

some information and storytelling.

551

By the way, those are all

portable capabilities, right?

552

And not specific to a discipline,

finance or HR or marketing.

553

Those are general capabilities.

554

If you have someone with that and then

they're leveraging AI the right way,

555

you don't need the

expertise in compensation.

556

You don't need the expertise

of 10, 15 years in learning

557

and development or in benefits

558

administration, because AI is going to

be able to make that available to you.

559

It's about writing the right prompt.

560

It's about then taking that

information and then applying

561

critical reasoning saying,

562

does this make sense?

563

Is this the right thing

for an organization?

564

You're still going to

have to implement it.

565

So then what's the change

leadership around it?

566

So to me, it is about the super worker

567

who can take vast amount of information.

568

They don't have to be

the technical expert.

569

It is literally the layer of

being able to take information,

570

storytell it, and make meaning of it

571

fit for purpose for the

organization that they're in.

572

Thomas Kunjappu: That

573

leads to an important question then.

574

What would, if that's the case, and you're

talking to early career professionals

575

who are just, or maybe someone who's

576

just in college at the moment, right?

577

And they're thinking about getting

into the HR field or that's

578

what they're like studying for,

maybe even doing a master's in it.

579

What kind of advice would you

580

have for those kinds of

folks given that future?

581

Alim Dhanji: It's a challenge.

582

I honestly empathize with new grads

right now because we haven't in

583

society adopted that superworker

584

model and we haven't in organizations

created the stratification

585

of how many humans and how

586

many agents we need.

587

I think it's coming.

588

So we're there right now in

a little bit of a limbo and I

589

know so many smart people who've

just graduated and cannot find

590

work because the consulting firms are

not recruiting as much as they used to.

591

so I think that there's

592

going to be a period of ambiguity.

593

What I would say to them is lean in

into those portable capabilities of

594

critical thinking, understanding how

to leverage and harness storytelling.

595

These are all

596

important capabilities that I

think are going to become that

597

much more critical going forward.

598

I go back to another experience I had

when I got this Adidas president role.

599

My then CEO, Casper,

600

also sent me, and I was

privileged to do this.

601

It was really difficult, but

I was privileged to go to

602

Harvard for the AMP program.

603

And what they do really well

is, we went through 180 cases,

604

different companies, and you learn

everything about Disney to Starbucks

605

to all kinds of different cases.

606

What they're actually teaching

607

teaching you is not to be an expert

as a technologist or a finance leader.

608

They're

609

teaching you critical thinking with

the data that you have available.

610

Okay.

611

So now I take that.

612

And if I've learned some critical

thinking there, that's great.

613

But the data that you have available

614

now is endless, right?

615

Think about that.

616

So it's not just the data you

have available at your fingertips.

617

You now

618

with ChatGPT or any form of AI,

you can get all kinds of data,

619

but then it's too much data.

620

So

621

how do you bring that back and

converge and diverge and make

622

meaning of it and then implement

623

a sound strategy?

624

So it's exciting, but it's also scary.

625

But I come back to critical thinking

as being the one capability that we

626

really need to lean into.

627

Thomas Kunjappu: Let me push back a little

bit on this one concept about not that

628

critical thinking, storytelling, these

meta cognition skills are not important.

629

Obviously, they are.

630

And yet using like software engineering,

for example, like a software engineer

631

is best positioned to prompt an

AI agent to create software for

632

them that is not buggy and that's

performant and production ready.

633

to create an AI agent that will help

them or work with AI in a way that

634

will produce results that you can

actually reliably stand behind and

635

recommend in polite conversation.

636

And even forgetting the

637

hallucinations, just the idea

that you're able to converse in

638

depth on this particular field and

639

topic versus asking maybe more basic

questions if you weren't there.

640

Isn't there still, I guess

what I'm getting at, isn't

641

there still role for expertise,

642

in-depth knowledge beyond

the metacognition skills,

643

which are important to get

into any particular topic

644

because there will still

be specialties, right?

645

And people who are really good

646

in using the latest technology available

647

to get outcomes that are best in class.

648

Alim Dhanji: My hot take is for now, yes.

649

Because we haven't yet gotten

into a full agentic workforce.

650

But you're right.

651

At some point, it'll take a

compensation expert coupled with

652

someone who's probably a technologist

653

to create an agent that can do exactly

654

what that comp person could do.

655

We're not there yet.

656

And so right now we're

using general GPTs and AI

657

to extract knowledge

and make meaning of it.

658

But we're fast moving towards

agentic opportunities.

659

And so when we get there,

660

I do think that the technical

roles will no longer be needed.

661

You're going to focus more on

what do you do with the outcome

662

of what that agent's producing.

663

Again, I'm not a futurist, but

that's what I'm seeing, the trend.

664

go towards.

665

I'm not a lawyer, but I worked

through just more recently

666

creating a power attorney for

667

my mother.

668

Normally I'd go and pay 500

bucks and have it written.

669

I wrote it.

670

Now, again, I don't

671

know if it's hallucinating or not,

but I wrote it in minutes, tweaked it.

672

And then I have a phone

673

a friend, right?

674

So right now I just send

it to lawyer friend.

675

I said, I don't want to pay.

676

Can

677

you take a look at it?

678

And they did.

679

And so it's pretty sound.

680

Thomas Kunjappu: Yeah.

681

Alim Dhanji: You know, it's pretty

682

sound.

683

So why would I go?

684

So I think this is going to

continue to proliferate at the point

685

where you're going to probably

have an agent that specializes

686

in power of attorneys.

687

Thomas Kunjappu: It makes sense.

688

And at some point, the burden of proof is,

right now, the burden of proof is on the

689

LLM for anything that is of import.

690

So in this case, you want to get

this right if you're going to

691

actually get this document signed.

692

So you're putting a human in the loop.

693

But maybe at some point, that

will be 9,999 times out of 10,000.

694

It's just just getting it right and

so people flip to it being completely

695

autonomous

696

Alim Dhanji: yeah it's that it's that

validation rule right now there's

697

definitely validation we are exploring

for example we do hundreds of rfps

698

and rfps if you've ever written one

699

two to three weeks at least right

depending on the how big the

700

initiative is yeah i can literally do

701

that now in an hour with

some back and forth.

702

But I would

703

be uncomfortable putting out an

RFP, responding to a client with

704

it just going through our system

705

and not having being reviewed by a human.

706

So you still need a validation layer.

707

And that might be

708

a lawyer, that might be a salesperson

or a marketing person in future.

709

I don't know.

710

I think that a number of agents will

look at that RFP and comment on it.

711

There might be some kind of DocuSign.

712

There's got to be, that's

got to be where we're going.

713

There are pros and cons to it

from a society perspective,

714

from what this means for jobs.

715

I'm not advocating for it.

716

But I also have to accept that's

717

probably where we're going.

718

And so we have to think about

what are the implications.

719

Thomas Kunjappu: Right.

720

And the time horizon for that could

be, there's a lot of debate about that.

721

We're talking

722

about like fully agentic and not

to mention like AGI, but there's

723

a clear trajectory that we can't

724

ignore.

725

And we've also talked about a lot of

things short term that we should be

726

doing right away within the HR function

or not to future proof ourselves.

727

Now, just to close out, you brought

up this concept of a super worker.

728

Could you just explore that concept

a little bit more in depth for us?

729

Alim Dhanji: think there are probably

multiple definitions and someone's

730

probably got the right definition.

731

I think there are probably

multiple definitions and someone's

732

probably got the right definition.

733

In my lens, it is someone who is

leveraging AI to make themselves so

734

much more effective and efficient.

735

And so what normally you do in

736

40 hours, you might be able to do

in 30 or 25 hours, but you don't

737

slack off for the other 10 or 15.

738

You do more.

739

And so actually you're

getting expansion, right?

740

So 40 hour week, if that's

741

what you're doing, you're probably

doing 70, but you're not working 70.

742

I think that I see some of those

individuals in our organization who

743

have just harnessed AI so brilliantly

that they're turning things around much

744

quicker than they were in the past.

745

And there's less back and forth.

746

They're over delivering.

747

So I do classify them as a super worker.

748

Thomas Kunjappu: That's great.

749

Thank you for that.

750

And for the broader conversation,

Alim, are there any closing

751

thoughts you want to share

752

with us as you to mark this moment in

time where we're just in this transition?

753

You specifically for folks

coming newly into the labor

754

market, we talked about there's

755

a lot of uncertainty and

it's really for everyone.

756

There's uncertainty about where

things are headed specifically.

757

What do you look forward to the most?

758

Alim Dhanji: I mean, like all

conversations, they end up

759

focusing so much more on AI.

760

And so I do think that is

where the direction is.

761

But if I raise the aperture there, it

is such an amazing moment to be in HR.

762

And as I think about other

leaders who've left HR more

763

recently, like Lina Nair, who left

764

HR at Unilever now, is a very

successful CEO of Chanel and

765

blowing the numbers out at the park.

766

I do think that this is the moment

where HR professionals and HR leaders

767

can have a greater impact, not only in

768

business, but helping to channel and shape

some of the implications of AI in society.

769

We shouldn't forget that.

770

And I think that creates purpose because

it is going to change the swim lanes

771

of how people graduate, how people

learn, how many people are employed.

772

So get really excited about that.

773

Maybe it's the geek in me, but super

exciting moment for us to be there.

774

And we shouldn't shy away.

775

I

776

think we should just grab it

by the horns and go for it.

777

Thomas Kunjappu: I love that.

778

And if you have

779

a growth mindset, you're a constant

student when the game on the field

780

is changing, data is changing.

781

It's just an opportunity to learn more.

782

And because new knowledge

is available for the taking.

783

Thank you for this wonderful

conversation, Alim.

784

I think there's a lot of value for

fellow CHROs and people operations

785

specialists to the directors of HR.

786

We're all kind of thinking about

how their roles may change.

787

And it's a really fascinating background

788

that you bring into this.

789

And specifically coming in and out

790

and back to HR through

all of the transitions.

791

Thank you once again for the conversation.

792

To everyone out there who's listening,

793

I hope you found as much value

794

as I did.

795

Good luck as you are future-proofing

your own organizations

796

and your own HR functions,

797

and I'll catch you on the next one.

798

Bye now.

799

Alim Dhanji: Thanks, Thomas.

800

Thanks for joining us on this

episode of Future Proof HR.

801

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802

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803

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804

See you next time as we keep our pulse on

how we can all thrive in the age on AI.