Shownotes
What does it take to create a work culture where people actually want to stay? Today, we're diving into what makes or breaks a “stay culture” in the workplace.
Fall is well under way , and while hunting season might give some employees a reason to step away, it brings up an important question: how do you create a culture that keeps people engaged and committed? This episode digs into the idea of "stay culture"—what makes people want to stick around instead of heading for the door.
We explore how leaders can connect with their teams by listening—really listening. It's not just about nodding and waiting to talk; it’s about showing genuine interest in what’s being said, even if it’s not something you personally care about. Tactical empathy plays a big role here. It's not about carrying everyone’s baggage but understanding their perspective enough to make them feel heard. This strategy alone can turn a revolving door workplace into a loyal and productive team.
We also tackle the tough reality of employee suggestions that might not be feasible to implement. How do you acknowledge someone’s input without creating false expectations? The answer lies in setting clear follow-ups and ensuring the team feels valued—even if the idea doesn’t make it into practice. And speaking of value, leaders need to take responsibility when things go wrong, while giving credit to the team for every success. This is what it means to be a true leader.
From actionable leadership advice to relatable anecdotes, this episode is packed with insights on creating a workplace that people want to be a part of—not just a place where they collect a paycheck.
Highlights:
- The importance of listening to employees without dismissing their ideas.
- Understanding tactical empathy and how it differs from emotional empathy.
- Why leaders need to own failures and give teams credit for success.
- Strategies to make employees feel heard, even when their ideas aren’t feasible.
- Practical ways to build connections with your team and reduce turnover.
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review. Share this episode with your colleagues or anyone who might benefit from improving workplace culture!
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Transcripts
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Blue Collar BS podcast with your co-host Brad and
Steve Doyle (:Steve.
Brad Herda (:perfect. Mr Doyle, are here sitting in late October. Fall is in the air. Hunting season for many has already started. Deer season starts here Michigan soon in a couple weeks in Wisconsin and pretty soon the entire much of the old school blue collar world will be shut down for the rest of the year because I got vacation to take and hunting to go do and.
Steve Doyle (:huh. That's right. I gotta put meat in the freezer.
Brad Herda (:All the young guys that have nothing, they're gonna be working their asses off and all pissed off at everybody. what's today's topic, sir?
Steve Doyle (:Yep. So today's topic is, it's around culture and how do we actually create a culture that really people want to stay at?
Brad Herda (:send everybody out hunting and we overwork everybody that stays.
Steve Doyle (:Well, right. I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah. Just, you know, you know what? Just just take it all off because nobody's going to work anyways. So yeah.
Brad Herda (:Didn't you just hear what we just proposed there, Steve?
Brad Herda (:Right, we're just gonna let everybody go and cool, do what they want, how they want, when they want, and those that are here, we're gonna punish you for being here. So thanks for showing up today.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Right. So, but yeah.
Brad Herda (:He used to see that, saw that all the time. It was very frustrating.
Steve Doyle (:It was, but it wasn't, because once you started to see it once, you then started to, you know, you can anticipate for it. And, you know, that for me was more the bigger thing. It's like, you knew it was coming. So we can all sit here and complain about it, or we can do something about it.
Brad Herda (:plan for it.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, back when I was doing all the outsourcing, I told our I told our shop, I'm like, guys, in September, early September, if if if we think we're gonna have to send some stuff out for end of year to make things happen, I need it now, because we have all our employees going on a vacation and hunting and things. So do all of our suppliers.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. August.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:So if we think we can't do it, why do we think they're going to be able to do it? And the response was, well, because we'll pay them to do it. Yeah, that's not how it works.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, it's not how it works, because guess what? We could pay our guys to do it, but guess what? They don't want to do it. They got to put meat in the freezer.
Brad Herda (:Right. Correct.
Steve Doyle (:So, okay, same argument can be had all the way around.
Brad Herda (:completely agree. So stay culture. So so tell me more about how how stay culture is defined because that's the first time I've heard it put in that words.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, so think of it as what are we doing to keep people from leaving? What is going to make someone stay? What is the culture need to look like in a business to keep people there or to keep to ingrain the mindset like, yes, I don't want to leave.
Brad Herda (:So we want to create an environment where people want to run towards us instead of run away from us.
Steve Doyle (:Yes.
Right? So we're not a job. We're not a number.
Brad Herda (:but we should all have a number that we're working towards if we're going to do like EOS or things like that from an accountability perspective. So how do we make, I mean, how do make people feel valued without necessarily seeing them as just as a resource?
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Hmm, that's a great question. That's a great question. And you know, the more we talk to a lot of our a lot of our clients. The number one thing is listen. Listen more. Right as we're talking, we're really as coaches were listening. Right? Yeah, exactly what I said.
Brad Herda (:Huh? What'd you say?
We're not even married.
Steve Doyle (:Selective listening only works in certain areas.
Brad Herda (:I won't tell your wife. I'm sure your wife doesn't listen to the show.
Steve Doyle (:She does not. No, but you know, as we're, it really helps when we, it's connections and listening. When we make the connection with people, we honestly listen, not to respond, but genuinely listen from an empathetic standpoint.
Brad Herda (:See now you gotta put a qualifier on it you got to put empathy as a qualifier to listening
Steve Doyle (:Well, I didn't say sympathy. didn't say compassion. I said empathy
Brad Herda (:Right, but that's still a qualifier of listening.
Steve Doyle (:Potentially. I mean, I can listen to understand. I don't have to listen to give a shit. But I can listen to understand.
Brad Herda (:that's not so understanding and empathy are not the same? Are you calling them the same?
Steve Doyle (:I am not calling them the same.
Brad Herda (:Okay, so if listening to understand, if I'm listening to understand versus listening with empathy, identify that difference for our audience because they are different.
Steve Doyle (:So more of, more of, correct.
Steve Doyle (:Hmm
Steve Doyle (:They are, but I'm more on the side of tactical empathy. Right? Tactical empathy.
Brad Herda (:I can't wait to about tactical empathy. This is going to be a...
Steve Doyle (:Come on now. I can make up whatever I want. actually that that is that is something where when we talk. It is a thing right, so it actually is talked about by. You should. It is taught by Chris Voss, right? But it's it's the act of understanding another person's mindset. In feelings to make them feel understood.
Brad Herda (:Taxing your little empathy is a thing. Huh. I should pay attention more.
Steve Doyle (:It's the act. Okay.
Brad Herda (:So it's the action of...
Steve Doyle (:I have to make, go ahead.
Yep.
Brad Herda (:supporting the person on the other side of the table or walking next to you to feel as though you give a shit.
Steve Doyle (:Correct?
Brad Herda (:Just from a summary perspective, I wanted to make sure that just... Okay, so, all right, I can understand that because I've practiced tactical, because empathy is not my strength for those that have listened, you might be shocked.
Steve Doyle (:It's just, yep, yep.
Steve Doyle (:Not mine either. You have more empathy than I do.
Brad Herda (:But wow, that's weird. But that tack and that's one of the things I know that I needed to do in order to be successful from a leadership perspective was I did. I didn't necessarily care about the kids birthday party coming up on the Friday, but I'd let them tell me about it and let them talk about it while we're at work. And I need to make sure on Monday or Tuesday I asked how the birthday party went.
Whether it went well or didn't go well wasn't important to me because it wasn't my birthday party, but I needed to go ask the question and I needed to go ask it in such a way that it wasn't a check the box type feeling or an opportunity of, here's the things I need to do this week. I need to go talk to Sally about this and Johnny about that and just walk around the office and check the box. That's not what we're doing here because people will see right through that.
So somehow you do need to work on creating a genuine relationship with your team members to create that culture. Even though the empathy or the tactical empathy may not. It's it's a strategy in a toolbox, right? There are certain things you are going to care about because you can relate to those individuals. If you don't have if you don't have young kids and you want to talk about two year old birthday party.
Steve Doyle (:Correct.
Steve Doyle (:That is, Yes. Yep.
Brad Herda (:OK, great. But if you are the same age area or have grandchildren, right? Cool. Now you can talk about there's a connection there for an opportunity.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right, right, right. Now, just so we, you know, we'll get a couple comments, you know, so you guys don't, like, tell us the difference between empathy and tactical empathy. So with tactical empathy, it's the act of understanding and sensing someone's emotions versus empathy. It's the ability to sense other people's emotions, right, coupled with, coupled with the ability to imagine
Brad Herda (:Number one bullshit guy.
Steve Doyle (:what someone else might be thinking or feeling. So, right, there's a lot more, like, we can be empathetic, but then we carry somebody's baggage.
when we're sensing it versus practicing tactical empathy, right? We can act to understand, I don't have to carry their emotional baggage with me.
Brad Herda (:Which one's better to create a stay culture?
Steve Doyle (:Right.
It's that is a great question, Brad. I'm glad you brought that up.
Steve Doyle (:Honestly, it's what is in the eyes of the person that you're listening to. If they feel heard, they feel like you connected with them. Does it matter?
Steve Doyle (:because it's all about that connection piece.
Brad Herda (:So let's go. So what's so let's just take a. Let's just take a scenario. All right, we're to take you as the millennial. Weird, right? So you're the millennial business owner. Let's just use a will pick some home service repair company, maybe a drywall company, maybe a painting, maybe maybe maybe you're doing interior exterior painting, right?
Steve Doyle (:you
Steve Doyle (:All right.
Brad Herda (:You've got your three or four folks that are with you as part of your team. You're leading this team. You are now having your your morning huddle before the day gets started in the garage in the shop wherever talking about stuff and the Gen Z kid will calm Aaron just for shits and giggles. So Aaron says, Hey,
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:How about we take care of, can we do this, this, and this to make it better, easier, simpler? Because I just don't like doing that way.
Brad Herda (:You're busy. You need to get out. We gotta get out. We gotta make money. Gotta get out the door. We don't have time for this shit. What do do?
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Stop and listen. Don't have time for it, but you're right, we don't have time for it. But if we don't have time to stop and listen, right, that person.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, you ain't got time for it. You ain't got time for it.
Brad Herda (:But what's the response to that individual so that they can be heard? But then when you don't take action to do the thing, like as we're in this gratification world, we don't take the action to do the thing that was brought up at eight o'clock in the morning that it's not done by two PM. That how come we haven't changed everything?
Steve Doyle (:Right?
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:how, what's the scenario there? would be something to support that owner through those conversations so that Aaron feels heard, understood, not dismissed?
Steve Doyle (:What's the scenario?
Ace.
Steve Doyle (:So are we going to do it or not? Is in this scenario, or you just want me to play it out as I would play it out.
Brad Herda (:We're going to let's just assume that Aaron had it was an idea, but it's stupid fucking idea, Aaron. You just don't have enough knowledge or understanding of of the business to go out and implement. Not it might be a good idea, but not not right now. Not ready right now because we don't have the technology. You don't have the technology because you're an old guy that wants to or older millennial that wants to still do what dad did back in the day or.
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:Let's go with the, have the idea, the kid has the idea, has the opportunity, but there's no way in hell you're going to implement it.
Steve Doyle (:All right. Yep.
Steve Doyle (:sounds pretty stubborn on me without necessarily knowing so but let's play it. It is Steve Doyle. Some days Steve Doyle doesn't give a shit. So so what I would say to poor Aaron is, you know, if he brought it up in a meeting and we literally ran out of time would be Aaron, this, this sounds like a good idea that you have. Let's come back the end of the day.
Brad Herda (:Well, it is Steve Doyle.
Steve Doyle (:If we finish early, let's come back at the end of day and let's brainstorm on this a little bit more. Because we do actually have to get out out right now, but let's let's circle back. I want you to circle back with me so I'm putting the onus back on him. I want you to circle back with me so that we can discuss this further and actually brainstorm ways that either this is going to be great and will implement or it just may not make sense. But let's have the time outside of this. You know, meaning, cause we have to go. Let's let's carve out the time to actually.
to look at this deeper.
Steve Doyle (:Right, and if he said OK, you know I may put a qualifier in there. Hey, I want you to get back with me. By a certain date could be by Thursday. It could be by Friday. You know, let's say this is Monday. I don't it doesn't matter. Give them a date to get back to you by, but be available.
Brad Herda (:And when they don't?
Steve Doyle (:it's not important to him. It's a good idea. I may bring it back up at a later date. I may bring it back up at a later date, but I'm putting more onus on them.
Brad Herda (:Steve Doyle (14:26.614)
If it's important, they will bring it back up.
Brad Herda (:but if it's not, right? So we go back through, let's go through some of the, back through some of the biases and the things that are there, right? From a generational perspective, right?
Steve Doyle (:Okay. What are the biases? wait, I forgot I was a millennial, not a Gen X.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Let's go back. Let's just go back through that. Right. So Aaron, Aaron hears it goes out there, says, hey, I got to go take care of that. I know this is on you to go forward. It's now an error to come back to you to talk about his idea and his thing. He doesn't. He didn't make the deadline. And then once it from some of the from a Gen Z perspective, the deadline is come and gone.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:it's come and gone, there's not really a whole lot of let's go figure this back out again type scenario.
Steve Doyle (:May not be. But he may come back and bring it back up. At a later date, fine. I as an owner I want to see who's got the drive in the initiative.
Brad Herda (:but you're not, throwing so much of you into this role play versus being.
Steve Doyle (:I totally but you said hey be be me be the millennial. I'm not a millennial. The Gen X let's fucking go.
Brad Herda (:But let's be honest about that. Not many leaders are going to be in that situation to say, I'm going to take the time to go do that and then make the time to make it happen. then so why I wanted to play out that scenario is so that Aaron, yes, I put it out there. You're like, there's no fucking way we're going to make this thing happen ever because it's stupid. But yet you're trying to get the owner to say, yeah, Aaron, come and talk to me about it.
Steve Doyle (:Correct.
Steve Doyle (:It may be, but I want from a teaching moment. I want them to understand. Whether this is a good idea or not, I'm not going to sit there and berate somebody. Now this is a stupid idea. It's never going to work. Right, if we do that, we shut people down. It becomes no longer. Hey, I can never bring something up that from a cultural standpoint that doesn't create a state culture because now their ideas and opportunities they're not able to grow.
They're not able to bring things up to help give me a reason why I want to stay. No, everything I come up with is stupid fucking idea. Why the fuck do I want to stay here?
Brad Herda (:I ask myself that every time we record Steve.
Steve Doyle (:And yet you still show up. Right.
Brad Herda (:that's the valid point here, right? If you want to create the state culture, you have to put energy and effort into it. It doesn't happen automatically. And you as the leader, you as the business owner, you as the, you know, whatever you're in charge of your team, you need to take responsibility and ownership for their perceived feelings of the situation, whether you agree with them or don't agree with them.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:You need to figure out a way to get through your own demons to support their needs. I'm a firm believer that a business is opportunity and leaders opportunities to maximize the potential of every person you're in contact with. And if your business can support them, fantastic if they have to leave to go continue their growth pattern, because they've maxed out at your at your entity, that's great too. And you will have you will have.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Right.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:you will have a connection for life that will never ever be lost. And and I can say that for me personally, I am blessed to have some to do that without knowing half the shit I know now that it's there because I received a text this was a while ago from a former
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:former staff members. hired her. She put up a big fight when I first hired her, but one of the best employees I've ever had because of that initial sentence, that initial starting point. the, she texted me a while back with some stuff that was going on.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Text I got was you taught me more than any class or book I'll ever read you took the time to care when things were horrible for me Now deflate your head and have a good night. It's only get rid of my ego because we're talking back and forth I like she's a great person to give shit to and it's like, okay. Yeah, you can just stop now But it was it's those types of texts those types of things those types of
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Yep. Yep.
Right.
Brad Herda (:that we created within our own subcultures within organizations that allowed that wanted people to come work on our team.
Steve Doyle (:Thank you.
Steve Doyle (:Right. So we.
Brad Herda (:So I understand exactly what you're saying. I was just being an asshole about it. That's all.
Steve Doyle (:Anything else new? Perfect. And yes. Yes. So, you know, that's a great scenario. What are some obstacles that you have seen people face when they truly say they want to create a create a culture that, you know, gravitate people gravitate towards, but they just they just can't figure that out.
Brad Herda (:Perfect.
Steve Doyle (:What are some of those obstacles?
Brad Herda (:I think the biggest root obstacle is that if you do not have a true, true, true belief of your role as a leader is to take all the blame and to give all the success, you're gonna have a problem.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Right. You could be the best, the best painting company, the best drywall company, the best mud jacking company, the best whatever. And yes, you can take all of those accolades cause it's your team, your things it's there, but you can't tell anybody about that. It needs to be the teams. needs to be their praise, their opportunity. Cause they're the one in front of the customer. They're the one doing the thing. They're the one putting the hours in and generating the profit and making it happen.
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:You're giving the tools and resources as such to do so, but when it fails and there's a problem, it can't be well, Johnny fucked up today. sorry about that. I'll have to talk to Johnny about it. Nope. Hey, sorry, Mr. Mrs. Customer. I thank you for bringing this awareness. I have a problem. I've created a problem in our system and I will make sure that we resolve this issue to your satisfaction. And I really appreciate you bringing this up and we will reevaluate our process to ensure that this
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Variable can't happen again
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Two very different scenarios there. And your team members need to feel that you got their back, not throw them off the ship.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yes.
Steve Doyle (:Correct. So what are some cost effective methods that you've seen to, or best practices that you've seen people adopt that really helps to minimize this turnover or the churn that people see?
Brad Herda (:Exceptionally low costs Truly no cash out of pocket. It costs you time is get out from behind your desk Go Get off your ass. Do not be a keyboard manager. Do not be a keyboard warrior now. You may have this is a little bit different world Many of our blue collar industries don't have a lot of remote workforce But if you are in a manufacturing if you are OEM manufacturer, you may have a bunch of remote workforce doing accounting and
Steve Doyle (:What? Get off your ass.
Brad Herda (:purchasing functions and other things because you Great pick up a phone, set up the call, do the thing. Don't just instant message and say hey, how's it going and let's have a conversation unless that happens to be their preferred methodology of communication.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Brad Herda (:Even though. Right, you get into behaviors and other things. This zoom call this opportunity to meet and see face to face to see emotionally what's going on. See the background. Watch a kid come into the room and get all upset because my kid just came into the room and doing homework. They while you're on the call, nobody is likely going to care. In fact, it's going to create a connection of opportunity with those leaders and employees. my kids do that all the time. It's OK, no big deal. We were internal. It wasn't external. It wasn't. It was just a.
simple conversation. wasn't urgent. wasn't like, Hey, is a use, do the right things at the right times or dogs barking or yep. Guess what? Everybody's got a package from Amazon showing up. Fucking dogs in a bar.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Nope, they don't. They don't.
Brad Herda (:No one's going to soundproof their house from the dog barking or a cat meowing or whatever.
Brad Herda (:But get up, get up and go have conversations. Go have conversations about things. Hey, how's today going? What can I do better for you to have a better day? can you go talk to Sally about this over in accounting because we really need some support there? Yep. I'll go talk to Sally. Go walk and talk to Sally and say, hey, Sally, Bobby said I need we need some support over here. Can can you give me a person to help with that? Sure, I can do that. No problem.
Steve Doyle (:No, they don't.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Take away the barriers.
Brad Herda (:And if you can take away the barriers, support them and allow them to fail without persecution. What?
Steve Doyle (:What? Fail without persecution. That's a topic for another show. That's a topic for another show.
Brad Herda (:I agree, because this one's not the, I'm not going to disagree, but that is a, that is a massive opportunity for, for growth learning and creating a organization of, of peer like feelings versus hierarchical structure.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. But that's also more of a growth mindset, right? You can't learn if you don't make mistakes, right? And expecting someone to not make mistakes every time while still learning, right? We've created a fallacy culture where it's now you have a toxic culture. For that reason, everybody's working on an eggshell. you know, we'll save that for another show.
Brad Herda (:correct.
Steve Doyle (:But yeah, you are absolutely right.
Brad Herda (:Those would be the things. So anything else in your state culture that we gotta cover before we sign off?
Steve Doyle (:Well, No, think that's I think we just I think we kind of leave it there. So thanks for indulging me in this show.
Brad Herda (:Okay. it is, we, we are recording Halloween Eve, we are at the weekend of trick or treat Halloween. So what is your, what is your Halloween costume there, Mr. Doyle? I know we're probably, this will air post Halloween, but what is your Halloween costume?
Steve Doyle (:Trick or treat!
Steve Doyle (:my. This little air pump. You know, usually I just go as a grouchy asshole. Yeah, bleached. You know, Scrooge McBuck, bah humbug. That's what I usually go as. And you Brad?
Brad Herda (:Bleached?
Brad Herda (:Wow.
Brad Herda (:Okay
Brad Herda (:I'm golfing We're golf going up to Kohler to the Irish course a trick-or-treat Saturday and then I don't I don't expect to be home until after after all the festivities are done in our neighborhoods because We avoid it like the plague around here
Steve Doyle (:You're golfing.
Steve Doyle (:Nice.
Steve Doyle (:no, I go as more of a chauffeur. I'm the chauffeur.
Brad Herda (:When the kids were younger, we did a ton of stuff. mean, literally I would have 40, 50 pumpkins out there that I carved and did the thing and all the lights, all the stuff. It was fantastic. It was awesome. It is my favorite holiday. But then once the kids got older, it's like, okay. And then like, do I really want to do this? I'm good.
Steve Doyle (:No, no, see, we don't we live where we don't have kids. So out in the woods. So it's kind of nice. I'm in the woods. I mean, that's
Brad Herda (:Well, you're in the woods. Freddy Krueger is going to come through. Go hide in that shed with all the chainsaws. Good idea. Don't hide in the running car.
Steve Doyle (:So that's the fun part. So. Yeah, you too, my friend.
Brad Herda (:Alright, have a great weekend,