Dawn Damon: Hey, welcome all you amazing, wonderful, bravehearted sisters. Good to be with you again today.

My guest today is an author, a podcaster, and a speaker, and she writes about messy faith. Shaking off shame and pursuing God's purpose with confidence. That is a favorite word for us on the bravehearted woman. She's a wife and a mom, and she admits that she reads too many books and she loves decaf coffee. Would you please welcome to the bravehearted woman Podcast, my guest today, Jen Schultz.

Hi, Jenn!

Jenn Shultz: Hi. Hi, Dawn. Hi, everybody listening. So great to be here. Thank you.

Dawn Damon: It's good to have you here today.

I'm so intrigued by your book because regardless of what age we are, this is an issue called humanity, the human race. Sometimes we do, we struggle with insecurity and we struggle with our identity. That's part of the human race. Talk to me about your new book. It's called, She’s Not Your Enemy – Includes Ten-Session Video Series: Conquering Our Insecurities So We Can Build God’s Kingdom Together. You don't struggle with insecurity and comparisons, do you?

Jenn Shultz: No, everybody else does. That's why I wrote the book.

Oh gosh, no. I've struggled with comparison for a long time. I would get frustrated because I'd hear that phrase, you probably heard it, comparison is the thief of joy. And I would hear it and think, well, if I knew how to stop comparing, then of course, like I would be happy and I would stop and I'd be happy and it would be great. I got so frustrated with that. I just felt like there had to be more to it.

So I started digging and I realized that the issue was not the comparison and the issue was not the other woman. The issue had so much more to do with me and with my insecurities and with questions that were deep and meaningful and important like, Am I loved? Am I valuable? Do I have a purpose? I was asking those questions of other women. I was looking at them and saying, you know, she's got this, she's doing that, you know, if I could keep up with her, then I would be worthy. If God gave me all of those same things, then maybe he would, that would prove that he loved me as much as her.

And so I realized that instead of making this comparison issue about the other woman, I really had to go back and answer these questions with God and really dive in deep with him.

Dawn Damon: That's really an amazing insight. You know, a lot of people don't get to that till they're late in life. That's a message that God let you kind of wrangle with early in life. You saying it came down to just feeling like if you could embrace God's love and know his love for you, that some of these feelings of inadequacy or not enough, or if someone else is really succeeding well, then that. Means I'm feeling left out. It was God's love. Part of the anecdote for all this.

Jenn Shultz: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I really had this perspective of God. I, you know, I grew up learning about him and I really feel like I was established. in a lot of ways with great scriptures, with great insight about who God was. But something I really misunderstood was that I really thought he was disappointed with me constantly. I felt like I just was not doing well enough ever. So I'd read a scripture and I would think, oh, God's saying that directly to me, and just feel this pressure of always having to do better for God. And I kind of went through this breakdown period several years ago where I just couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't pretend like I had it all together as this good Christian woman, but inside just felt so inferior. It's so inadequate for God. It all kind of came together. I had some panic attacks and just, you know.

I remember being at church one Sunday and feeling like everybody was just. Staring at me and I had to get up and leave. It was a postpartum season for me. So that absolutely had a factor in it, but it all came together. I was like, something's got to give. So I started talking to a biblical counselor. I started getting really gut-level honest with some respected friends in my life. And they kept pointing me back to the scriptures and saying, is that really who God is? Is that really what he's saying about you, that you need to do better, that you're a mess and he'll love you when you get to a certain point? Those things weren't true. I kept going back to the scriptures and seeing, wow. Love is who He is. Compassion is who He is. He gets down on our level. He removes every barrier that gets in the way just to be with us.

Like that is who God is not, you know, this demanding boss who's always looking at his watch and shaking his head at me. So that changed everything. It really did free me up so much to be able to look at myself and look at others differently.

Dawn Damon: I think so many other people struggle with that same thing. Like, I don't know how it was for you and maybe you can speak to this, but often we view God the same way that we've viewed a caretaker, a parent, or an authority figure. If we felt somehow, if we learned at an early age, that what was expected of us was perfectionism, what was expected of us was to toe the line. Or even if there was some sibling rivalry and we said, Oh, I have to outperform them, they look like they're getting all kinds of accolades. I feel left out.

Don't you think, and maybe this was your experience, I don't know, but did you learn perfectionism or performance at a young age? Do you feel, can you treat it back and say, or my temperament, I just had to feel like I was winning. Where do you think that came from?

Jenn Shultz: Oh gosh. I mean, I have always really cared so much about what people think. That's been a motivating factor for me for so long. I remember, you know, I grew up in a Christian household, my parents. We're amazing are amazing, but I grew up in a community in church community where if you did the right thing that was applauded and that was, you know, held up and boosted up. So the more I got the applause, the more I thought, Oh, well, if I do the right thing, if I, if I toe the line, I did it at school as well, I remember going to. In kindergarten, on the first day, there was a prize for the person who was the best behaved. So I worked really hard and I got it that day. I was so thrilled. I brought home my prize. You know, I showed my mom and the next day I didn't win the prize and I was devastated. I was like, what did I do wrong that I didn't get this prize today? And my mom was like, it's not about that. It's not about you winning every day. And so it really was something I feel like hardwired in me that I wanted to please people. I wanted to be the one that came out on top and was the best and won the prizes. So honestly, there were a lot of factors, but was deeply ingrained in me for sure.

Dawn Damon: Those are all the qualities and I can see them. I have a lot of grandchildren and I can see some of those qualities and some of the younger kids, even as we, you know, as you're talking about that. I do think that's kind of the perfect storm I think it is the environment. I think that's something you know unfortunately and I love the local church but unfortunately that. Can be one of those unforeseen consequences that we are teaching young people. Like you have to live this way. You have to do this. You have to line up the school same.

Then you see it also in their temperament. I can see in some of my grandkids like you're saying, like there's the competitive one. There's the one that wants to, and it's just the motivational it's the drivers. You know, we have these human drivers and people-pleasing can be one of them. Those accolades.

But you talk about this in your book a little bit and you said, you know, if there's one thing that I hope that readers will take away from this book, you know, they'll see that the other woman is not the enemy. They'll see that this comparison and looking at others is not what you're up against, but that there is an enemy.

Jenn Shultz: Absolutely.

Dawn Damon: Talk to us. I mean, we have to learn the nature and character of God, but must we also recognize the nature of the enemy?

Jenn Shultz: Yeah, absolutely.

Paul talks about this, just that our battle is not against flesh and blood. I think that startled me when I really stopped to think about it. Like there are so many people in my life who feel like I'm at odds with whether I'm trying to be better than them, or I'm trying to be all together. They're trying to be all together. I don't feel like I can fit in with them. The woman who doesn't believe the woman who disagrees with me, I can feel like. I need to put on my armor and I need to fight her. But the more I looked in the scriptures, God has wired us for community. He didn't wire us to be against each other and to be battling each other all the time. He really has created us to be a body and to work together for his glory and to build his kingdom.

The more scriptures I looked at, you know, even spiritual armor and how we need to put on the spiritual armor of God against the devil. It's not against each other. It's not to protect ourselves and protect our hearts against each other. It's to protect us from the devil and to fight him. So it's so much more of a spiritual battle than it is kind of our worldly perspective. I really had to get out of that headspace and get back into, well, what's Satan trying to orchestrate here the lies of you're alone. Nobody understands the lie. It's her versus you the lie of scarcity. If she has something and you don't it's a threat to you. All of those lies are from him. They're not from each other.

Dawn Damon: Right. That's powerful. That scarcity mindset is something that I talk about as well in my book. I'm sure. Because that's one of those things that if we believe that we will continue to struggle. If someone is getting blessed, then there's not enough left for me. How much do we shrink the possibilities in the immensity of God when we believe that we know God?

Jenn Shultz: Yeah. We put it in this little box and we make it out to be like this pie and she gets a big slice. I only get this little, it's not about that, but it's so easy to believe it.

Dawn Damon: It really is. In our culture and I like what you're saying, you know, we are three-part beings. We're made in the image of God, so we're body, soul, and spirit and I, the totality of who we are. Some things are spiritual in nature like this could be a spiritual battle. Insecurity, this fear of not being enough, this thievery of your identity, definitely saying, but you also talked about your hormones and that's physical. That was out of whack.

I went through the same thing where I had panic attacks and some depression in my 30s. it was my post-traumatic stress when I first realized that it was finally coming out. But what about that physical piece? Because we can feel this rejection and it's so strong and that feeling that we're not doing something right. How do you deal with painful feelings of rejection? I mean, I remember, you know, at the time some people did say to me, you know, just make a choice, just get over it.

Jenn Shultz: Right. Yeah, we're very quick to fix right, especially I feel like in the church and Christian communities were very quick to like, well, let's get over it so we can be faithful and keep going about the mission.

Something that I find really amazing about God is he cares about all of those aspects of us because he created all of them. Like you said, we have body, soul, and spirit, and they're all intertwined specifically with rejection. As you said, something I found in my research was that when we feel rejected, it goes along the same, if I can say this right, it goes along the same neural pathways as physical pain. So we feel it. It's like that gut punch.

When you see that picture online of all the girls that got together without you, you know, it's that, that tension and the tightness in your chest, and all of that feels real because it's real. You feel it's physical pain. very real. I mean, isolation has physical ramifications, you know, not having those close connections actually leads to, it can lead to an earlier death. It can lead to heart problems. It can lead to all these things. It's interesting how now the attorney general is saying that loneliness is an epidemic. Like they're calling it. an epidemic because it's affecting us physically. It's just crazy how all of these things are intertwined and the Bible already said that, like. The Bible has already told us all of this, that all of these things are intertwined and God cares about all of them. But we contend to see it as, oh, that's an isolated issue. Like, why am I having panic attacks? Like, I'm fine. Everything's fine. You know, like, why would I be doing that? But as you said, there was something underneath. that was going on and it, it really is all interconnected. So it's important to know that God cares about all of those things. I think that's interesting and that's important for us to know.

Dawn Damon: That's important for us to know that God isn't rejecting us, but we know, like, I like what you're saying, like that, rejection is so real. It's not just made up in your head. You're having a biological experience when you're feeling that rejection.

I think that tendency is to pull back and isolate or become angry. If we're feeling that rejection, you suggest some habits. What do we do? Are there any habits that you would recommend or behaviors or actions that we should take if we're battling that rejection?

Jenn Shultz: Gosh, I feel like a huge thing is just to get off social media. I know like we say it and we know it in our heads, but sometimes we just so easily like my thumb will just press the button before I even realize it and I'm scrolling through and looking at These curated pictures of people's lives where, you know, I feel rejected because I see people exactly. I see people, you know, hanging out without me, or I see, you know, those girls went on a girl's trip without me. I feel rejected or, you know, these people have different opinions of me. I feel like we're at odds now, or, you know, just all of these things that we feed, we keep feeding that kind of monster.

Sometimes we just have to take a break. We got to put the phone away. Maybe set timers in your day where you can't access your social media, take a day off. I'm going to take a social media sabbatical soon. I'm really excited about that because, you know, and in doing what we do, there's a lot of social media involved. It'll be nice to just take a step back, but it really does. It affects your brain more than, you know, and I feel like we're still only discovering how much social media is affecting our brains.

So if you're feeling that rejection and you're feeling a lot of comparison, that would be a good place to look at. But I think also just making sure that. You are working out your heartbreak with God one-on-one, allowing him to meet you where you are in this rejection.

Also if you feel rejected, turn around and maybe invite some other people in. Maybe this is an opportunity for you to look around and see who else is rejected. Who else is feeling like they're lonely and they're left out? Maybe I can be the one to be. The turning point for them. Maybe there's a relationship here that God is opening the door for that. I never expected it, but it came out of this other rejection.

So I would encourage you maybe to look at all of those things. If you're struggling with that as a listener right now.

Dawn Damon: Yeah. So many great points that you're bringing up right now and yes, to the social media. I mean, it's just absolutely, especially post-pandemic or post-COVID isolation is the perfect setup for a trigger for anyone who struggles with this area of comparison and insecurity, because you want to talk about a group of depressed people who are scrolling through and seeing, you know as we said, the highlight reel, all the wonderful things, the stage. Events in people's lives are not really present. They're looking, they're living their life through the lens that, and so there's this whole generation, but then people get arguing on Facebook and the conversations. And so I love that you're saying, you know what, just put an end to it. And especially my podcast is listened to a lot by a wonderful group of women, authors, and speakers, and those of us who are in this industry. And that's a good reminder for all of us as well, that let's not get caught up in what someone else is doing.

Be obedient to your call, run your race, keep your eyes on the prize that God has for you and what you're to be doing, and collaborate. Yes. We're in this together. I just recently launched a book and I was so blessed, Jen, by all of the ladies that were on the book launch team pulling. What a blast it was to join in the sisterhood. So I hope you had the same thing.

Jenn Shultz: Kind of did for sure that was the fabulous team.

Dawn Damon: That's awesome. That's exhilarating. Isn't it?

Jenn Shultz: It is.

Dawn Damon: What else about your book? I want to refresh our minds here as we're talking about the title. She's not your enemy conquering our insecurities so we can build God's kingdom together. Are there any other tips about conquering our insecurities that you want to make sure that we catch today?

Jenn Shultz: Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I shared about how I was kind of in this space of not seeing God very clearly and not seeing him very truthfully. So what I need to do is I really needed to address the lies that had taken up space in my mind with truth. Then, what I've been encouraging people to do is just to fill themselves up with scriptures about God. Who he says you are, write them on post-it notes and put them around your house, put them on your mirror, wherever you need to do it to actually just start replacing those lies with truth. Because it's an amazing thing speaking about, you know, the brain and the body and neural pathways and all of that. It's an amazing thing that we can actually transform our minds. Depending on what we feed them, we can go from a lot of toxic thinking to a much healthier pattern of thinking, and there are so many books on that, but you know what, it goes back to the Bible.

The Bible says we can be renewed in our minds because of God, and that we can be transformed. We don't have to stay stuck in these toxic thoughts. So, we actually have to do the active work of feeding them with healthy thoughts and replacing them with spiritual truths and biblical truths so that we're prepared for when those times come. I know some of my favorite scriptures are Romans 8, just the whole chapter, Psalm 103. Those are some scriptures that work for me. And even a great identity check is Ephesians one.

If you're feeling like, who am I and who am I to God? And who am I to other people? Look through that scripture and just know that God says that you are chosen, you are loved, you are valuable, and you were adopted into his family because that brought him joy. That made him happy to want to include you in his family and include you at his table.

So I do encourage you to do that. Hold on to those scriptures. Make sure that you are again working out your heartbreak with God I know there are times when we see other women who have what we want and we're still waiting. I know I went through what I shared about it in the book. But I went through a season of infertility where you know my friends would be sharing that they were pregnant and I was so excited for them but there was another part of me that was just hurting and devastated just because I didn't know what my story was going to look like. I didn't know what the answers were at the time. It became such a time of just wrestling to surrender to God and continue to bring things to him. It made such a difference just to actually go through that time. I can now say that I'm out of it, but it was such a great time for developing a stronger relationship with God because I had to keep going back to Him and wrestling with Him through this.

Then just encourage you to pray for the women around you, be connected to them, talk to them, be vulnerable with them, hear their stories, and continue to pray for them and cheer them on. That makes a huge difference in how you look at them. It has to be an active thing in your life to be able to make it a pattern and a habit.

Dawn Damon: Yes, I agree with those things. Those are powerful. To withhold judgment, sometimes when we meet someone, we're just so quick to make those judgments there and think that way. I can't tell you how many times in life where maybe I had kind of, I'm not sure about that person. They've ended up being one of my closest friends, strong women sometimes, you know, that we struggle with those friends, but this has been so incredibly delightful and I'm so thankful.

Listen for you who are with us today. Do you know who your heavenly father is? Do you know the love that he has for you? Do you know that there's enough in God's kingdom and that you are enough? God has a special anointing calling place and purpose for you. And that's not just a cliche. That's a reality.

Finally ending this with the word shalom. It's coming to mind, and I know that you write about it, it means God's peace, but it also means something more. In closing, can you just share your thoughts about that for us?

Jenn Shultz: Well, I, again, grew up going to church and had this perspective of peace that it was all about not fighting. Don't fight. Don't argue. Don't make waves. You know, we can all be status quo and be okay.

I actually heard a sermon on this topic a couple of years ago, you know, right in the middle of the pandemic and just lots of social issues going on. The word shalom was brought up and it just was so much more of a wonderful fulfilling meaning than I ever knew. It's so much more about our well-being ~ physical, mental, and spiritual in community with others and being reconciled with God. It just changed my whole perspective to know that that is what God wants for us. He doesn't just want us to get along and be friendly with each other. He wants us to be well and whole. That's what he desires for you. It's what He desires for me. And just knowing that about God makes me feel like it's like a big hug for me, that that's what he wants for us. So I hope that's an encouraging thing for the people who are listening today.

Dawn Damon: I believe that it will be an encouragement. Receive that hug today. The peace of God is upon you. And you know, even as Jesus spoke peace amidst the turmoil of the storm and the raging waters, life about us is crazy, but that peace is ours. The name of the book once again is She’s Not Your Enemy – Includes Ten-Session Video Series: Conquering Our Insecurities So We Can Build God’s Kingdom Together.

My guest today is Jenn Schultz, and you can find her at the website jennschultzauthor.com and all of her social media handles will be available on our show notes.

Thank you, Jen, for being with us.

Jenn Shultz: Amazing. Thank you, Dawn. It was so great to chat with you.

Dawn Damon: Thank you. I pray your book will take wings and fly all over the universe, wherever God will have it go, and that the right people will grab onto that. Thank you for your book!

Hey, I'm going to leave you like I always do, you wonderful, amazing women. Take this to heart. Get this book, and make sure that if this is an area that you become brave enough to face head-on the fears that you might be experiencing, God's called us to freedom. And I think it's time for you to find your brave and live your dreams!