BWB Extra gets to know this week's guest, Leo Rayman, a little better. Leo’s the Founder & CEO of Eden Lab who help make big companies more sustainable, and sustainable companies much bigger.

Leo’s main points of focus include how 'green growth' can spark the positive power of business, Why 'clean share of market' is essential to understand for customer risk, and the big one .. EcoCapitalism.

So kick back and get to know more about the man who plans to remove 5 million tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere in the next 5 years.

Check out Leo's book Recommendation:

• "Four Thousand Weeks" by Oliver Burkeman

BWB is powered by Oury Clark.

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode with Bwb Extra, where we get to know this week's guest, Leo Raymond A.

Little better.

Leo is the founder and CEO of Eden Lab, who helped make big companies more sustainable and sustainable companies much bigger.

Leo's main points of focus include how green growth can spark the positive power of business.

Why clean share of market is essential to understand for customer risk and the big one.

Eco capitalism.

So kick back and get to know more about the man who plans to remove 5 million tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere in the next five years.

We've sort of touched on this a bit, but how did you end up doing what you're doing?

Um, I stared out the window during the lockdowns.

I thought, there must be more to life than this.

Discovered I've known for a while, had to do something.

I looked my son in the eyes and I thought, I've gotta find a way to something useful.

I've gotta get involved.

Where's the gap?

When I saw a gap, sustainability, people weren't talking to the marketing people and commercial people properly.

That's the gap.

So I thought of filling the virus wasn't all bad.

You know, a lot of people stared out the window.

It makes you think about what the hell you're doing, you know what I mean?

Well, the only time we ever had it before was Christmas.

But the weird thing was the society stopped for half of society and then, well, certainly my side is society just worked harder than we ever worked Christmas in our lives.

You have to spend Christmas with your relatives.

That was the, the beauty of lockdown was you couldn't.

Yeah, proper alone time.

Amazing.

Oh yeah, that was good.

It was really good.

I think you could give yourself a, you know, a little lockdown once a year for a week maybe.

Well, I think we've all got addicted to it.

Everybody, every generation is communicating less, communicating less.

Is that right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, my anecdotal surveying of three people has proved this absolute fact.

I think you might have an answer to this.

You see, you seem like you might have thought about this.

Uh, given you had some time to think about your life, what's your long term goal?

Um, I wanna make a difference and build a company that is like recognized that having genuinely changed how people think and behave and operate.

So my kids proud of it.

Just a little goal then, you know, but then, but the real goal actually is to have an amazing space in South France where I can sit there and write, write and read books.

Sorry, the evil part of my brain cuz you pause.

Feels the real point of my life.

Pause.

I was just to filled that gap so he thinks it's a, and like, you know, all these women.

And then I'm gonna like spend a week with Elvis.

What's the most misunderstood thing about your job?

The most misunderstood thing about my job, I think is that, um, all the sustainability people are like sandal wearing activist nutters, and they kind of make your life hell.

The they are right?

Well, some are, but like, and they're doing it for a good cause, really.

But I think it doesn't have to be like that.

And, you know, mainstreaming something is, it doesn't do like that necessarily anymore.

Biggest problem faced by your business.

So this isn't the biggest problem faced by society.

It's really No, no me, yeah, us.

This is gonna sound disingenuous and horrible.

I don't really mean that way, but look, okay.

I'm getting a lot of approaches from people who are like, I'm reini in what you're doing.

I really love what you're doing.

I'd love to find out more.

And I'm like, you do it for free.

Well, can you tell me all about that stuff?

And I'm keen to help and I'm like on an evangelical drive, but I also need to make money and make the whole thing work and focus on where the problem really is and who can actually help, not just.

Sort of sort out people.

So I'm really, I can't work out how to handle that sort of volume of interest like today on LinkedIn.

Silly thing, but like it went nuts on a thing I posted.

It's gonna make tomorrow really mad.

How do you sort of satisfy?

What did you, what did you post?

Why marketers are not assholes, basically?

Of course, that's clip bait for my community.

They love that, so it's gonna be massive.

But I did it a few weeks ago, like why sustainability?

People should be sort of recognized for the efforts they're making.

Boom, it explodes.

It's amazing.

That's what it feels like.

You know, you're really going somewhere.

You know your business is working.

How do you not satisfy, but you have to take the, you also presumably have to take the time to talk to all those individual people and work out whether they're, how'd you do it, they're a goer or they're not.

And I hate missing opportunity cause it's I new.

But, um, I also think, I don't know, I need to find a clever system to be honest.

If anyone can advise, do get in touch.

The way I've always done it is just talk to everyone and anybody.

But if you work out quite quickly that they're pointless, cut the conversation short, move on, and also give them, Enough information that they know that they need help, but not enough information they can do on their own.

It's a fine line.

Well, I know, I would say that're quite differently.

I, I'll tell someone whatever, I can tell 'em in 20 minutes or an hour in a phone conversation, but that's what they're gonna get, you know?

No, but I could tell Everybo somebody everything they need to know in about 20 minutes.

So you couldn't, could you, I mean, super concentrated or maybe tax, maybe.

Maybe tax is more complicated.

But they have this thing in don't, they're say in small business you've gotta kiss a lot of frogs.

Right.

And I'm like, How do you know which frog is a prince or a princess or, which is just a regular book standard amphibian, like a three.

I think unfortunately the answer to it is kiss of all, you know, but 99 out of a hundred frogs are just frogs.

Sometimes the cigar is just a cigar.

Quite Mr.

Freud.

But you know, like most frogs are actually frogs.

You know, there, there are very few princesses.

And Princess, I was thinking about Freud.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

I was thinking about Freud.

Uh, cuz I was, you know, so funny how, I mean, the main bit of when you read is.

Stuff that I, and and you're kind of, ah, the main thing that I'm, you, I just start laughing is really like, and he believed everything was underpinned by a sexual desire.

And why it makes me laugh is as far as I'm away.

He was a cocaine addict for 40 years.

Oh, he, yeah, I think so.

And so he is on cocaine all the time.

Of course.

Everything's about sex.

What are you most excited about for your business?

Um, it's just so nice to be doing a thing that you believe in that aligns with where you think you're going.

You know, it's not, it's gone on the right side of history.

You know, you're on the right side of history and your kids can be proud of you.

That is, that feels special compared to like, yeah.

Feels, I dunno what, I dunno.

Start of a long road of trying to get there.

Yeah.

That's what say me.

You ain't gonna see the outcome in your lifetime, which is kind of a weird thought, but that's kind of also quite cool.

Because someone, at some point people work on cathedrals, don't they build that cigar of familiia in Barcelona that's saw the outcome.

That's awesome.

One amazing project.

The whole basis of children, right?

Like, you don't, you don't necessarily see, or you won't see your grandchildren and what they do when they're, you know, 50 like you, the whole point of life is you don't see the outcome of what you do.

Uh, hang on, is it.

Gladiator.

What we do echoes in E it is Gladiator.

Right at the start of gladiator.

I'll, I'll see.

Yes Seen.

I've seen Gladiator Unleash.

Hell, I haven't got Unleash.

I love that film.

Yeah, but you know you're the history b I like it.

Speech in the, but it what we do echoes in eternity Wall.

You don't know.

What effect, and it would be amazing if the things you do now do echo in attention or at, or you made an attempt and then, I dunno, maybe it's cause I'm having my male menopause and reconsidering what the freak of my life's about.

I don't know.

But people say that's what happens, right?

It'd be funny if you started going on, uh, male testosterone replacement.

You were like, oh, fuck the environment.

Gimme oil.

I'm gonna get a six lit of Mercedes.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna work for amstrad.

What's your biggest cockup?

Uh, I took over a company, sort of fell into my lap.

I was in charge of a lot of people.

And how did a company fall into a lap?

Oh, cuz the people in running it, my crew basically, my bosses basically left and I was like, all right.

Oh, I'm the last man standing, kind of.

It's mine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I, and I had like an overnight moment to prepare and that was it.

It was like, Doing done great business.

Actually.

It was so good that I was like, oh, I've gotta hold onto it and not let, how old were you at this point?

Quite old.

Okay.

I don't know.

It was like, this is like, I dunno.

20 2016.

16.

I know something not that long ago.

Should've known better, but I held onto it.

Tried to hold it crystalline in my hand, not let it break.

Because it was perfect.

Except it wasn't exactly as it was when, and it needed to.

And that was just the moment we could learn anything.

We were flying and we did win and we did well, relatively speaking, but like we could have gone, what is the marketing company?

It was a big ad agency called Grey London that was super famous at that time.

Did loads of famous work, British Heart Foundation, Vinny Jones, Lucas, lots of names, but, um, and they left.

They did the bought out.

A couple of my, couple of the guys, like three of them went off to do their own startup, which happens in that world.

You know, it's sort of thing were wg you just left, you, were you the for there was like, No.

No.

Cause it wasn't found as we were like publicly owned.

But, um, me and like the remainder of the crew, we were left sort of holding the pieces and Right deciding we loved it and we loved it a lot more to keep it going.

My point is more about.

When that happens, you've gotta listen to your instinct and like believe in yourself and go for it.

Don't try and hold on some weird rather.

Cause part of that just not being brave enough.

Yeah.

Not like lacking confidence.

Yeah, definitely.

And now a quick word from our sponsor.

I.

Clark got it.

Start back in 1935.

And while the world has changed a bit, it's more than just survived from complying with the F C A and all things financing.

They could also speak fluently in the language of legalese.

Ari Clark was born and raised right here in the uk and now for 20 years they've been helping others get set up and on their way.

Ari Clark's Doors always open.

Happy to provide straight talking financial and legal advice since 19 five.

Big shout out to Sean via Singh for as stellar jingle.

You can find him at Sean ver Singh music on Instagram.

And at this point, let me quickly remind you to give us a nice review, please on Apple Podcast or follow us on Spotify so you'll never miss an episode.

Now back to the chat.

What, what's your passion outside of business?

I about cooking, cooking, cooking and wine.

That, that's fine.

Not necessarily in that balance.

Probably cooking with wine.

Yeah, definitely.

So do you do a lot of the cooking at home?

I do actually.

And then since lockdown I did a lot more of it.

That doing What's your, what's your signature dish?

I made an amazing roast chicken with, um, preserve lemons and harissa.

All like, oh yeah.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

This is, it's good.

It's nice.

Very simple, actually.

Easy to do.

Just quiz all up.

It's actually really easy.

Tastes amazing kids.

Even the kids eat it.

What's the worst advice you've ever been given?

And this is true.

Get a good pen.

Who told you that?

Some sales dude that was in sales, my first job, more or less second job.

And he was like, I said, that's a secret.

And I, I think he meant get a malt B Blanc, go to meetings and act big.

And you sort do.

All right.

I didn't have to do that.

There was a time when it was like that, you know, the FILA effects and the fountain pen.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Uh, I mean, not as kind of memorable in some ways, but, um, someone said to me, a lovely man said to me, you should get some p and l experience.

Cause I've been sitting in these jobs where you weren't running money, you know what I mean?

He's laughing.

P experience but like get in charge of being in charge of like profit loss and feel of fe failure and pain of loss.

Cause I think and cost.

Cause it's, it then it's visceral for you and you understand is pain and loss experience, couldn't we?

My first album was called Profit and Loss.

I just did work jobs where I didn't have to retail responsibility for that stuff for many years.

And actually I think it's sort of dodging the issues.

Is Eden now just you or do you have employees?

No, I've got my director about to make another hire and I've got some associates.

So yeah, it's building up.

So you've got responsibility.

The plan is to build a company.

Company.

I did my first payroll this month, end of January.

No, I'm a because I think once, once you're responsible for other people, it get, the shit gets real, right?

Yeah.

I sort, but I like having a gang really.

I think it's more fun that way.

I don't wanna be on my own.

Extrovert.

Extrovert.

He's an extrovert.

He definitely, he wants people in the office.

All hours.

All hours.

Dogs are all right.

There is no office, but not Dave's dog.

Not after last time.

I'll never get off the rug.

I don't know that I'm an introvert cuz I like people.

I like spending time with people.

I just.

Also like a, you know, and when I, I can remember, no, that's the misunderstanding.

Introvert and extra doesn't mean whether you're social or not.

It means you get energy from being with people.

So you could build up your energy on your own and then party for two days, but then you're like, I've had enough of people.

Whereas me and him would be like, what's going on in day three on the planet?

But I mean, I can remember.

I can remember being in my twenties and my boyfriend had gone on a walking holiday with his dad.

My parents were away for the weekend.

My sister was away and my flatmate was out.

God knows where frankly.

And I remember sitting in my flat on a, like a Saturday morning, literally crying cuz I was like, I'm gonna be on my own for the whole weekend.

What the fuck am I gonna do?

And now if he said to me, pepper, you're gonna be on your own for the whole weekend.

I'm like, Yes.

Actually, if you told me that now after I've got two young kids, you might been quite happy.

Yeah.

Oh my god.

Maybe you're an but I'd have people round.

I'd have people around the people.

I'm not allowed round normally.

I would normally see you, Dave.

Maybe that's the difference, because I would go out to lunch with somebody, but I wouldn't have them around my cause then they won't leave.

God.

You know what I'd love to do is tell my wife that she's, and the trouble, she'd worry about the kids as a man.

I can kind of go like.

I'll just forget about it.

That's apparently the power of testosterone.

I can just park my emotions.

I can just say, oh, think, think about that next Tuesday.

I care Really?

But I, yeah, that's what testosterone does.

Well, the lady who does the injection sending men into women and women into men.

She was on this amazing program.

I with an I.

Well, the first, if you wanna change your sex feel, there's more to it than that.

Yeah.

Well the first, if you wanna share your sex, the first thing they do is they give you women or whatever.

And the women, the, the, the man turning into a woman was like, yeah.

Was saying, you know, I went to the, um, I went to get my cereal in the supermarket and came around the corner and it was just so much choice and I just start breaking down, I dunno what cereal I want.

And the woman turning into a man said, yeah, well, you know, I was eating dinner and this rang up my friend, we had an argument that, you know, we hung up.

And normally that's it.

But I thought, this dinner's delicious.

I'll have dinner, I'll watch a film and I'll think about it later.

And she said in the morning I woke up and was like, ah, bitch, you know?

And she was like, this is how men seem like they don't care.

They care because they actually don't give a chance.

Well, no, we have the Tesla gives you a decisiveness and it's a sort, it's a sort of war-like thing.

I get the feeling you need to get an evolutionary biologist on that.

My point isn't anything this.

Person said, I can't even remember as a man or woman, I think he was a woman, uh, but was saying, you know, look, people talk a lot about what sex is, but I can tell you as someone who gives the injections and deals with these people, most of'em it's hormonal.

But you are right.

There is that whole thing you, enormous amount of testosterone gives you confidence.

You're very decisive.

You lose your hair on top.

You understand?

You know, you know, I've not got a very high testosterone.

I know that cuz I can't decide when you give me a menu.

You know, I can't work it out.

Take a while.

Someone you wish to say restaurant.

Cause you know where it's right there.

I've had high testosterone people have gossip.

Sick man.

Put yourself together and make a decision.

I have.

Uh, what advice did you give to your younger self?

Oh, um, Don't be driven by self-doubt and just give it a go.

Cause what's the worst that can happen?

Trouble is, you'd have to look really successful when he delivered that to your younger self, wouldn't you?

You know, you'd have to drive up in a gold Mercedes if you came up on a little broken bicycle, actually.

Actually, you'd be better to look like a complete waste of space.

You'd think Fucking hell full is the young guy knows you should not do what I did.

No, I think I read this thing when I was thinking about what to do next, like in my life, and it said, That's gonna sound shit, but one of those podcasts and it said, um, what would you dare to do if you weren't kind of, I dunno, rhythm with self doubt and blah, blah, blah.

And that's a really powerful question though, for me.

For me, it was a powerful question.

Like, what would you dare to do?

Oh, if you were American, see, my thing would've been, my immediate reaction to that is fuck the fuck off.

You know, what would I dare to do?

Like, There are things that limit all of us.

Yeah.

But no.

If it's an internally host, face limit, American American have say, I wasn't American for coffee.

I think want it enough you can have it.

It wasn't no, it was more like with you, and I'm with you and I'm not trying to like make you friends.

Maybe I am, but I really am.

I think there really are two versions of that reality.

I think, you know, if we all try to aspire to be movie stars, it's not gonna happen.

You know what I mean?

It's like, it's Simon Cow when they come off the stage.

You wanna be a singer?

It's like you can't sing and you're ugly.

Get off the stage.

I just, I don't know.

I think like Miss Bend, our lives kind of second guessing ourselves, I'm not doing what we're capable of.

Us filling attention.

But same time, if you're shit, if you, we are bound by our fears.

Yeah.

But you should, you should definitely ask yourself the question and put forward to those who love you.

And, and, and want you to do well.

Some of the things that you're like, look, I'm embarrassed admit, but you know, quite like to be a rapper.

And as I'm consistently told, it's not gonna happen.

But, you know, it's, but, um, you know, your, your, your friends would limit you.

You know, your love, true loved ones.

Uh, she, don is your friends true loved ones, whatever that means to you.

Any reads I read, I like that book.

4,000 Weeks by Oliver Birkman.

Have you seen that?

Say that again.

4,000 Weeks by Oliver Oliver Birkman.

It's brilliant.

And it's kind of an, it's like a, it's like an attack on this productivity bullshit, and it's like you ain't gonna, you have to-do list.

Yeah.

You're never gonna finish it.

You're gonna die.

That's kind of one of the bits of the book.

It's quite good though.

Thanks.

It's like, well stop worrying about it.

I dunno.

I found it very powerful at that time.

I was like, I had a big to-do list.

I think the 4,000 weeks thing is, is, is, yeah.

It's is good.

It's a great read.

Well, it's good to tick 'em off and slowly get depressed.

This brings us to the favorite part of the show, the business versus bullshit.

Quick, far, round.

D thank you music.

This is where we're gonna reel off some key tabs.

Now we've got them on cards.

All you have to do is tell us whether you think is business or bullshit.

And if you're on the fence about, and you feel really must, maybe once or twice we'll allow you to say this shit.

Particularly please.

You won the shit ship.

Is, is what I would've voted for.

Uh, Leo, are you ready?

I'm ready.

Okay.

Let's go.

Going viral.

Bullshit.

A hot desk ski bullshit.

Flexible working, uh, business breakfast meeting.

Definitely Business MBAs.

Bullshit.

Think tanks.

Uh, probably bullshit.

Bullshit.

You know.

Any good thing times?

No, but I like the idea of them.

Uh, yeah, maybe Chatham House.

Quite interesting.

You always think, you think it's a fish tank though, right?

I think of a tank.

Tank.

Oh, I think of a tank.

Tank.

Oh, maybe it's me that thinks for Fish Tank.

I can't remember.

Uh, microdosing.

Oh yeah.

Business.

I think probably, yeah, you checked it out.

No, no.

I'm trying to get old of it.

Uh, team outings.

Business.

Have you had one yet?

Not with like four.

Yeah.

We did a big Christmas party.

I mean there wasn't many of us, but it was a big party, five months Christmas party already.

The hours that he went on for.

Okay.

Had lots to celebrate.

Oh, it's nice when it's just three of you.

It's alright.

Yeah.

We've still got asked to come.

Universal income.

Hey, we do.

Probably business.

No one's like that.

Asking favors.

Yeah.

Business.

Yeah.

NFTs bullshit.

Just say that.

Uh, working hours.

Bullshit.

Business plans.

Bullshit.

Yes.

Bitcoin.

Bullshit.

Ah, I love these answers.

Not a bullshit.

Lost a lot of money.

Oh, well done.

Excellent.

That was brilliant.

That's the end of the quick, far round.

So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra and we'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday.