Shownotes
We dive into some of the hottest issues facing Ohio and the nation.
We kick things off with a lively discussion about the U.S. Supreme Court’s recent “playing hooky” and what that means for Trump and parental rights in education—touching on a controversial Maryland case involving DEI-related curriculum opt-outs.
We look at Ohio-specific stories, including Governor DeWine’s latest mental health initiative for youth, and the ongoing debate: Who really calls the shots in Ohio—the governor, or the parents and communities? The duo reflects on personal values, parenting challenges, and how government intervention is shaping today’s family life.
To round things out, we shine a spotlight on the heated politics of immigration and parolees, exploring how current legal battles and executive actions could have major implications for Ohioans and the country at large. As always, expect sharp common sense, a dash of humor, and plenty of passionate takes on what matters most to Ohio.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Common Sense Moments
00:00 Pope's Providential Passing
08:50 Parents' Opt-Out Rights Case
10:48 Parents Challenge School's Sexual Content
19:52 "Debate on Normalizing Gay Marriage"
25:36 Ohio Expands Youth Mobile Response
26:22 Youth Support Service Concerns
35:57 "Biden's Mass Parole Controversy"
36:59 Deportation Hearings Debate
45:01 "The Perils of Undermining Law"
47:37 "Nation's Response to Unlawful Immigration"
56:38 Federal Worker Double-Dipping Bill
59:42 "Criminal Justice System Flaws"
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Copyright 2025 Common Sense Ohio
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson, My Podcast Guy®, is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Transcripts
Alright. Here we are. We are coming at you live. We're rumbling. We're Facebooking and we're YouTubeing live Common Sense Ohio on 04/23/2025. Stay tuned because we are playing hooky today with KBJ. That's Ketonti Brown Jackson. I don't know if they're fishing or they're playing video games these days probably.
Steve Palmer [:Anyway, so we're gonna talk about, the US Supreme Court playing hooky. Apparently, The United States, you can check-in, but you can't check out, at least not so easily. We're gonna talk about, the US Supreme Court and what they're saying with Trump. And who's your daddy in Ohio, Norm? Is it mister DeWine or is it you? We will talk all about it. So Common Sense Ohio. Stay tuned. Brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting. I know, Glenn Harper over at Harper Plus, enjoying a nice reprieve, but only a short one having gotten through tax season.
Steve Palmer [:How do I know? Because I talk to him all the time. He's my accountant. Could be yours, Harper Plus Accounting. Alright. You know, this day in history and by the way, I've been gone. So this week in history, this two weeks in
Norm Murdock [:history Welcome back, dude. You were miss.
Steve Palmer [:I know nothing. I'm sergeant Solch today. I'm here to comment only, but I'll do my best. I would say, though, I I looked up 04/23/2025, the day attributable to not only Shakespeare's birth, but also his death. And that reminded me of a quote that might be sort of relevant today. Let me have men about me that are fat, sleek headed men, as such as sleep at night. Jan Cassius has a lean and hungry look. He looks too much or he thinks too much.
Steve Palmer [:Such men are dangerous. This is, of course, Shakespeare, and this is like the as Shakespeare or not Shakespeare, Julius Caesar. Shakespeare, Julius Caesar. And as he did so well, the foreshadowing, and and you can just imagine that speech in a play format. And then it goes on. He's talking to Mark Antony. He goes on to talk about who he's afraid of and what he's afraid of. And he says he's afraid of nothing.
Steve Palmer [:And and his final his final quote in this little thing were well, there's there's even more. Would he were fatter, but I fear him not, yet if my name were liable to fear. In other words, he's a fearful guy, but I'm not afraid of him. Interesting because, you know, he ends up dying. But then he says, I'd rather tell thee what is to be feared than what I fear, for always I am Caesar. Trump should Trump should Trump should beware, I think. You know? He seems like he's afraid of nothing, but there are people out to get him. There are people out to stop him.
Steve Palmer [:There are people out to stop his agenda, agree with him or not. You've got folks out there who are interested in blowing up Tesla factories or Tesla cars, and, you've got folks killing, UnitedHealthcare executives all in the name of the cause. Right? And that's, that's sort of like the theme of the Yeah. That play was like, you know, as I loved him, I had to kill him
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Sort of at the end. And it it is or as he was ambitious, I had to kill him. Finding justification to commit murder or maybe metaphorically to to employ means that aren't necessarily, let's just say, noble Yeah. To stop somebody you disagree with.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:That is my Shakespeare That's excellent. Relation to the day. How did I come up with that? I have no idea. I remember my high school Shakespeare class. Mhmm. Wow.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So we just had
Steve Palmer [:Thank you, mister Divert. We
Norm Murdock [:just had a rather epic death. The death of, the pope, the morning after Easter. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty providential that, you know, for for God you know, for those who believe in God, like like us three, Catholic or not, it's providential that God would allow the the head of the Catholic church to survive through Easter day, go to the mass, appear at the mass, say some words to the crowd, be the pope, meet with JD Vance, and then the next morning, you know, he's gone. I mean, that is, if you're going to leave the earth and and go to the afterlife, to heaven, we hope there's one,
Steve Palmer [:you know.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. That, there is no more dramatic way for a pope to exit stage left than now.
Norm Murdock [:Now, you know, And and and I would and this is not gonna be my outrage for the week, but I would like to basically put shame on those that just discredited Vance. It's like, oh, look who killed the pope. Vance. Look who killed the pope, Vance. It's like, come on. You know, I mean, again Yeah. Okay. It it it can be a little funny in your head, whatever.
Norm Murdock [:You know, especially if you really truly hate Vance. But, you know, that is it it's I don't know. I can't even put words around it. It it it's not defending Vance. It's like quits, ruining the day, I guess you could say. Quit ruining the day. Right? You know, for for with your pope with the pope passing.
Steve Palmer [:With your earthly nonsense.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. Yeah. You know? So let's put let's put it this way. Have you ever run across somebody? Let's meet somebody, knew somebody, and you potentially might have been the last person that they ever saw. Mhmm. That's pretty moving. And and that's happened to me.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. It is.
Norm Murdock [:And and and this person was not even ill.
Steve Palmer [:And and Vince
Norm Murdock [:I was one of the last few people to see him. Yeah. And that was it was and it was odd because I was there collecting I was in radio at the time, and that was sales and collecting a check from the guy. That's right. My mind going, oh my god. Did I kill him because I broke the bank? He will text. Exactly. Right.
Norm Murdock [:But but it's that I was one of the last few people that saw him, and Vance has to be thinking the same thing. It's like, oh my gosh.
Norm Murdock [:It's a heavy thought.
Norm Murdock [:It's a heavy thought.
Norm Murdock [:And he's a converted Catholic. He Right. I think 2019, he Yeah. You know Yeah. Became Catholic.
Norm Murdock [:So, you know, let's hope the twenty minutes did something for both of them.
Steve Palmer [:I'm sure and I'm sure it did. I know. Oh. Because, you know, when do you agree with, like, the pope's politics and and his his dilly dallying into, like, things like immigration and and tying that to Christianity, etcetera.
Norm Murdock [:Animal rights. I mean, he he got into some far flung stuff.
Steve Palmer [:You know, and it's I'm no biblical scholar, but I know you render under Caesar what is Caesar's If you render under God, what is God? Those two things should be separate. And I I think that's what Christ was saying there. It's like, now he was talking about tax collection, etcetera. But there was a bigger point to be made. And Right.
Norm Murdock [:You know, certainly temporal world over here, the world of, you know, get it trying to save your soul over there.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Or do or do well. And and, you know, so I I think for the the church to inject into those political endeavors was a was a bridge too far.
Norm Murdock [:It was. Yeah. Absolutely.
Steve Palmer [:But still, he was the pope. Yeah. And, you know, an interesting
Norm Murdock [:And the popes Spain in Europe. Pope the popes never they can't do anything right. So people still criticize pope what was it? I think pope pope Pius was a pope during World War two. And, of course, he's credited with saving, you know, millions of refugees, but yet, supposedly, he didn't do enough to combat Hitler. So I don't know what what was he gonna do, send the Swiss Guard?
Steve Palmer [:Right. You
Norm Murdock [:know, like like, you
Norm Murdock [:know Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I don't
Norm Murdock [:you know? But it's so you can't like, there, he was supposed to get involved in politics. Right? Allegedly, you know, as if Hitler couldn't have sent one division and roll right through the Vatican. Okay. Well, you wanna get mouthy, you know, you're gone. So I you're right, Steve. Like, like, the pope Francis so I'm a Catholic. I disagreed with him on a whole list of things. But there's no question even if he might have been naive or been extremely progressive or however you wanna put it, he was a gentle, modest man.
Norm Murdock [:He he drove his own little Fiat around town. He didn't take the Pope mobile until he couldn't drive. He lived not in the big palace wearing the fancy slippers and all that. He lived in a little apartment off campus, if you will. So he, you know, there was much to admire about him. Sure.
Steve Palmer [:And and and maybe that's a lesson for everybody. Yeah. And, Brett, to your point earlier, it reminded me of a conversation I have with somebody last week. I was involved in a hearing out in a different county. And, you know, when you get involved in these kind of things, it's brutal. It's an adversarial system for a reason. So you go after each other a little bit. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And a colleague of mine says, I don't know why you're so nice. You know, why why do you treat them better than than, they're treating us? And it didn't without even thinking about it, I don't take credit for this because I I give this credit to my biblical studies. But I I find I just looked at him and said, well, I try to treat everybody better than
Norm Murdock [:they do.
Norm Murdock [:That's all. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And I and I think that is the message here. Right. If you if this is the last person you see, treat them better Yeah. Than you think. Yeah. Even if even better than they deserve maybe.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Because not it for no other reason, it makes me feel better. Right.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, what have you got to lose?
Steve Palmer [:Oh, I
Norm Murdock [:should say. Right. There's there's nothing to lose by doing that.
Steve Palmer [:And this is a very biblical lesson. Believe or not, believe. It's still a good lesson. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Well, I thought we dive into this, Supreme Court case that got argued yesterday at the Supreme Court involving Prince William County, Maryland, parents' rights case. The basic issue is, the the right to, opt out, is what the parents are asking for. So they're not asking for the curriculum to be changed. They're asking to be able to opt opt out of DEI related classes. So as you know, you know, pretty much nationwide, DEI programs have been shutting down, but school districts and universities are looking for ways to reconstitute it or further embed it in the lesson of the day. And one of those, you know, items that you use to teach is, of course, schoolbooks. And one of the one of the exhibits brought forward by the parents' attorneys was a age five to age eight book. It wasn't doctor Seuss.
Norm Murdock [:It was a book full of, if you will, perverted or or nontraditional sexual mores.
Steve Palmer [:And what were the ages for the kids that were reading this book?
Norm Murdock [:Five to eight.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I don't care if it's nontraditional. I don't care if it's traditional. Yeah. I see. This is the thing. I mean, this is like, the the we are we are into a into new territory Yeah. Where who's responsible for educating your children in those things.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And to the extent we've given the government the power through the Department of Education or whatever to cram down this curriculum, we've given up a little bit of control, I think. And, you know, that that there's a bigger or maybe not bigger, but that's the bigger question at play.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So, you sound a little bit, Steve, like, justice Elaine Kagan yesterday, who, you know, is a liberal and was appointed by liberal.
Steve Palmer [:But he is irrelevant. Well Politics are relevant.
Norm Murdock [:But I yeah. I think it's relevant to her point. And she said, setting aside the religious objections by the Muslim parents who brought this as well as the Christian parents. They teamed up to bring this case. She said, I find it essentially, I'm not this isn't word for word, but her her statement was that she found it shocking, that regardless of the religious argument that there is, this kind of, if you will, grooming, sexual content for children of that age. And and she found that she found that objectionable. And she asked the, she asked the people representing the school district, you know, how can you justify that kind? So it was questions like pick out the drag queen in the book. In the back, you would match the picture of the drag queen, and there would be a definition of what a drag queen is in the back of the book, and you would match it.
Steve Palmer [:Sounds like a good old fashioned matching test. Exactly. Exactly. And do you get to draw lines?
Norm Murdock [:I mean, Steve, what what is what what is that?
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it's crazy. The hard part about this, though, is the cost if the Supreme Court is hearing it, there's gotta be a constitutional basis for the Supreme Court to hear it.
Norm Murdock [:And it was the religious angle that they use.
Steve Palmer [:It would have to be the religious angle. Because, look, I I think we have we have I've covered this ground before. We've talked about this similarly. Like, we have never, as a country, our founders never would have even thought about this kind of problem. I mean, you wouldn't even
Norm Murdock [:consider that.
Steve Palmer [:It is so far afield
Norm Murdock [:because it's indecent. From
Steve Palmer [:anything that
Norm Murdock [:we would person does that to little kids?
Steve Palmer [:That's right. I mean So, you know, the like, I've run into things at school. Taking this out of DEI maybe is the is the if we're gonna take it out of the constitution, out of DEI. You know, we went through around in Ohio and other places in the country, whole language reading. I've talked about this before on the show. So the the the curriculum involved whole language reading, which is basically you memorize a bunch of little three letter words and then eventually it clicks and you can read. Well, that's great for about eighty, sixty, seventy, eighty percent of kids, but the other twenty percent don't learn how to read that way. In fact, it's counter, educational for their ability to read.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And they need they need phonetics. And if you everybody remembers my age remembers, like, after I learned to read came all these commercials, like, Hooked on Phonics and all this stuff. Because that's so much whole language is taking place and kids couldn't read. Yeah. So, you know, there's there's a bunch of lawsuits, a bunch of challenges. Well, nobody was grousing. I mean, look, the people that were pushing whole language reading were against it.
Steve Palmer [:But, like, you wouldn't have said, I wanna nobody would have complained if I opt out of whole language reading. In fact, I'm gonna say nobody. The school still might have complained. But I didn't think for two seconds to look at that teacher in the face and say, look. My kid can't read. And because I remember having this conversation. Well, look. How do you know? He's passing all these things.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's because the kids were really, really smart.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. A lot a lot of,
Steve Palmer [:like, dyslexia, and it it tracks with really good memories and being very smart and Yeah. High IQs, etcetera. And I'm not saying my kids are smart, but this is normal. And so they can fake it. Yeah. But they can't learn to read. And and they said I I remember a argument I had, and they said, well, look. How do you know your how do you know? Because our testing says good.
Steve Palmer [:I I said, well, why don't we just call him in here and you give him a paragraph to read, and you see how well he does? And they all just stopped. Said, I read with this kid every single night.
Norm Murdock [:Well, unlike unlike being able to opt out and get tutoring help,
Steve Palmer [:you know That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Or someone else. Yeah. Yeah. So Gorsuch, justice Gorsuch asked the, defendants, the the school district, well, I mean, why can't they opt out? Like, what is the big deal, essentially? Why do you care? And then If
Steve Palmer [:it's no big deal, why is it a big deal?
Norm Murdock [:Because the policy at this school district, is that if were you to opt out or were your kids not to show up, they're not gonna graduate. Like, that is the reading class. There is no other reading class.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:You you are compelled to be there, to which justice Ketanji Brown Jackson said, to the defendants in in her questioning, well, just just don't go to a public school like you have that choice. And it's like, you know, really, all the 50 states don't have school choice yet, number one. Number two, were you not to send your kids to public school, then you have to pay tuition to somebody else.
Steve Palmer [:To a private school.
Norm Murdock [:So where where does that leave poor or middle class families?
Steve Palmer [:Like so many of these things, you end up you end up screwed. Right? You end up, like Right. Like, in in I I would bet. I I would I would love to see the stats on this norm. You may even know. How many of these people cramming down this policy actually send their kids to public schools?
Norm Murdock [:That would be interesting because a lot of time like, the Obama family certainly didn't. They sent them off to the Quaker school in DC. Meanwhile, he killed off the school choice plan for the DC That's right. District.
Steve Palmer [:You know, so politically speaking, why how's this any different than letting a kid opt out of the pledge of allegiance or opt out of a prayer at school or opt out of anything? To say just don't go to public school. Right. You might hear that we'll choose a different private school, but you wouldn't like, it it sort of turns it on here. This is why you were playing hooky with KBJ. So Yeah. You know, it's like
Norm Murdock [:I I say to my friends better
Steve Palmer [:Find that one a little bit.
Norm Murdock [:I say to my friends because I want good public schools. I mean, I want them to be excellent, and there are several, like, Upper Arlington here in town. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Where get me started.
Norm Murdock [:Or well, you know, I just talking academics. You know, how they do on on, tests. Walnut Hills in Cincinnati, I'm sure there's one or two excellent ones in Cleveland. But so I want them to do well. But I would say to my public school advocates and my pro teacher advocates, this is the kind of crap that is hollowing out public schools.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look.
Norm Murdock [:This is why people are not choosing to go there anymore is because when you're rigid and when you're teaching crazy shit, excuse me, like this Yeah. To little kids, parents are not gonna have it.
Steve Palmer [:Well and here's the problem. My kids both went to Burlington, and I see the assign some of the assignments coming home. And my son says, I don't agree with I I he goes, I just say what they want me to say. Yeah. And I get along. Right. And that's that.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And, he he goes, you
Norm Murdock [:understand that. Law school too.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You don't understand, dad. If I go and I if I don't agree with this, I'll I'll get a worse grade. And I think, sadly, he's right. He is right. Yeah. I think, sadly, he's right. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Well, he wouldn't say it unless he's seen that example. Yeah. Or he's felt it some feels that way or felt it from a friend or something.
Steve Palmer [:You're onto something there, Brett. Because it's not just that it it would happen. It's that he feels that would happen. And and look, this is this is counter the educational experience that I think is so valuable in the Western world to provoke thought, not discourage it. Exactly. So if he feels a certain way and wants to voice an opinion and feels like he's gonna be chastised for that opinion, that is the antithesis of the Socratic Western educational system. It it is it like, you learn by provoking thought, not by suppressing thought.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:That that's what the education should be. And this is you know, they're cramming this down. If you disagree with this, they're saying not only can't you disagree, like, you have no choice.
Norm Murdock [:You have
Norm Murdock [:no other option. Right.
Norm Murdock [:So Randi Weingarten, who is the president of the teachers union nationally, she said the purpose of these kinds of policies is to teach acceptance of other people that are different than you. Well, I would just say to her, that is not the purpose of school.
Steve Palmer [:It's quite the opposite. It's quite These these people are saying I'm different. I don't agree with this.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. And
Steve Palmer [:yet you're discouraging it. Look. This It eats itself.
Norm Murdock [:It eats itself.
Steve Palmer [:The logic eats itself. That's right. It it just is, and look. I mean, what's the what is the interest of the teachers union? I mean, do the math. Yeah. Do do the math. Right.
Norm Murdock [:So Well, and you're talking about an age group that's pretty well accepting already. Correct? I mean, you kinda get hardened with different religion, races
Steve Palmer [:You do.
Norm Murdock [:Such as you get older.
Steve Palmer [:Look. I
Norm Murdock [:So My kids did not script doesn't make sense.
Steve Palmer [:I was I was I was, I was blown away. Because, look, you know, when you know, I had kids and, you know, you grow you have my whole I was an adult. You have your kids, and they start going to school, and you don't think much of it. Yeah. But, you know, we're very aware of race. We're very aware of religion. We're very aware of different ideas Right. As adults.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And my kids were they were blissfully unaware of those things. You know, they didn't care if somebody was black. They didn't care if somebody was white. They didn't care if you were gay. They didn't care about
Norm Murdock [:any of it. They weren't taught about it one way or the other.
Steve Palmer [:Or the other. And and that is a not not a credit to me and my household, but I think that was a credit to the generational changes that we've
Norm Murdock [:had Absolutely.
Steve Palmer [:On these things Absolutely. At home. At home. Right. At home. Right. I didn't learn that. I mean, at home, he learned those things at home.
Steve Palmer [:Like, nobody said at home, don't like black people. Nobody said at home, don't like gay people. Nobody said at home, don't like Muslims or don't like them or don't like them. So they didn't go in with any predetermined to your point, Brett, they didn't go with any predetermined notions on this. I don't need the school to teach that. Alright? Because even if you are trying to teach it, the kids are gonna go home. And if the home doesn't if if whoever's at home doesn't agree with you, guess what?
Norm Murdock [:Well, forget. You know, I would I go even beyond that. Forget about whether or not it's good, bad as adults to have gay marriages because that was one of the other things featured in the book. The book would would show two daddies or two mommies and in normalizing that. And for parents who feel very strongly that, yes, as an adult, two gays can can, you know, have a union and, you know, that doesn't affect my household directly. But I don't want my kids growing up thinking that is a normal option. They have the right within their family structure Sure. To simply say, no.
Norm Murdock [:It's not good.
Steve Palmer [:It's not right. We don't believe those things.
Norm Murdock [:Yep. We believe it's better for a mom and a dad to raise a kid than two moms or two dads.
Steve Palmer [:What they are doing, what the school is doing
Norm Murdock [:here to think that.
Steve Palmer [:Is taking a position to the exclusion of another position. And while doing that, they're accusing the parents or they they're they're they're doing it for the purpose, the stated purpose, really, to combat the parents doing the same thing.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And it's just an opposite. Right? So they're saying, look. The parents don't know better, so we're gonna teach it, and that's that. It's a battle of right and they're wrong is what they're saying.
Norm Murdock [:It's a battle over teaching what is acceptable and normal, and we have differences of opinion about it.
Steve Palmer [:Meanwhile, why don't we teach a little bit about World War two? Why don't we teach about the Great Depression? Why don't
Norm Murdock [:we teach about, like, the things that really matter? I wonder where this would stand if if it wasn't they were not, to your point of, you know, the the gay marriage or the the book also showcases two mommies, two daddies, that sort of thing. Yeah. I wonder where it would land if it was Mick's marriage.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know. I I just throw that out. Well, I'll I'll throw it.
Norm Murdock [:I'll I'll answer I'll answer.
Norm Murdock [:Because that has become normalized. I will. In our generation
Norm Murdock [:It's very simple to answer that question. So that was presented to the Supreme Court with Bob Jones University. Mhmm. And you know what they did? They took away their tax exempt status. Mhmm. Because that is illegal to tell the student body that black and white kids can't date each other.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:And that was a Bob Jones University policy. Yeah. So they said, if you're gonna do that, right, if you're gonna do that, which is against the law
Norm Murdock [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:Then you're not tax exempt. So that's the answer. That's what happens.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, I mean, look, it'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. We are on this is the ultimate culmination of years of this stuff and parents just finally saying enough's enough. And it you know, it takes a long time for our system to, for these issues to sort of matriculate up Yeah. If that's the right word or make their way up
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:To get a decision. So it's this I don't think this can be attributable just to the Trump presidency. I mean No. No. This stuff has been ruined for a long, long time. Let me take
Norm Murdock [:the cake baker in Colorado. Exactly. There is a there is a a series of cases that are more and more in favor of people's right to practice religion and to have their own viewpoints, and the Supreme Court has been leading the way on that.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. On both and to me, look, I as far as liberal or conservative jazz or whatever, I've often found that those labels don't always reflect what people think they reflect. Well, like Kagan. Like Kagan. Right. So Exactly. You know, some of this doesn't make any sense. And if it it it constitutionally or otherwise Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, I don't I think this this is just stuff that you have a you have some fringe groups really pushing this narrative, and they think that they are doing God's work, so to speak, by by advancing a curriculum that they believe in. And I'm not saying that you're look. I think you're wrong or I disagree with you. But, look, it doesn't mean that you get to teach everybody. You're brainwashing kids
Norm Murdock [:of parents that do not want this.
Steve Palmer [:And the bigger question is I think the bigger question is and this will shift us over to Dwayne and who's your daddy. Who's your daddy? Who's who's raising the kids? Is it the government or is it the is it happening at the household? Because I think Western civilization was built on a structure that we that the household is what rules. Right? So we, you know, we like, from all the way down, it it really is formulated on our households.
Norm Murdock [:Well, let's go let's go
Steve Palmer [:to parents raising their children with certain value systems Yeah. And, and moving it forward. So
Norm Murdock [:Let's let's go to the the hell you know, the path to hell is paved with good intentions department. You know? So so you have this, on the face of it, very beautiful program, you know, even though we haven't gotten a tax cut here in Ohio for property or income. So you got governor DeWine. Right? He's gonna spend money. Right? Because nothing's free. Now they're advertising this as free to the families. And what it is, it's called the mobile this is an Ohio program. The Mobile Response and Stabilization Service.
Norm Murdock [:So MRSS administered through the Ohio Department of Mental Health and Addictive Services.
Steve Palmer [:I don't I don't even understand what the heck that is. Yeah. What is that?
Norm Murdock [:It's a it's basically social workers. Essentially, you know, conducting, so I was actually me, Norm Murdock, was the lobbyist to get a license for addiction, counselors here in Ohio. I did that about fifteen years ago as a lobbyist, for, you know, thousands of these counselors who hitherto were not licensed. They were just putting out a shingle and saying, yeah. I'll I'll do addiction services. So, anyway, they come under this, department. And what this does for anybody who's 20 years old or younger so it's aimed at children and young adults. If you're 21, you're too old.
Norm Murdock [:So it's 20 and under. You can call this 888 number, and within sixty minutes, an hour, they send a professional, a doctor, a nurse, a social worker. They send somebody, either a department employee or a contractor, to your house. And this exists right now in 50 counties in Ohio. The announcement yesterday by governor DeWine is we're extending it to all 88 counties. We're putting more money into this program. And, what they get is an immediate response, so that's why they're calling it the mobile response. And they also get these services for up to six weeks thereafter free of charge by the taxpayer.
Norm Murdock [:So it's not free, but it's free to the person being served. And the trigger to get somebody to come out is anything that the student or the young person is upset about, and they will respond to the home, to the school, wherever that child is in, you know, at a truck stop, wherever they are. And it sounds like a great idea, right, until you start to think about, well, what is the follow-up? So a kid calls and says, hey. My mom spanks me when I use the f bomb. I'm gonna call the 888 number, have them come to the house and straighten my mom out. And, you know, this gets to kinda what Steve was talking about.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You get to the point where the government is intervening. And and look, this it's always a careful balance because there are situations. I mean, we should be we should be at least intellectually honest about this. There there are situations where where there are crises that need help. Right. And there are social workers out there that provide that kind of help. Right.
Steve Palmer [:All sounds great. Yep. But the line gets blurry. It gets really blurry. And, you know, you could say that we need to have this and, that you'd probably be true you'd probably be accurate on some level. But we're missing the other need, which is why what do we need to is there a way that we can encourage the family structure to develop, the way it used to? And so we don't need these kind of things. We don't have these kind of crises.
Norm Murdock [:How did we survive for two hundred twenty five years?
Steve Palmer [:How are kids getting to the point where they're they're having these crises?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And maybe we could look in the mirror a little bit, everybody Yeah. And say, what are we doing to our kids? What are we like, where where have we gone awry Right. On this? Right. And and I don't think anybody's studying that legitimately. I don't know if anybody really wants to know the actual answer to that.
Norm Murdock [:Because no one no voter wants to be called a bad parent.
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:And no politician's gonna call a parent a bad parent. So we have to it almost feels like this is DeWine's guilt guilt number because of the school, what was it? The situation where if you you don't feel like you're a guy anymore, you've you know, the the sexual disorientation, let's put it that way. Yep. So if you can't get it at school, you call this number.
Steve Palmer [:You call this number and you get it. Right.
Norm Murdock [:And what
Norm Murdock [:if this is as a good I'm not saying
Steve Palmer [:you can easily see it. You can see it morphing into that.
Norm Murdock [:That's what came to mind right away to me is like, okay, if you're not getting help at school, you're gonna call this number.
Steve Palmer [:And let's You know?
Norm Murdock [:And and again, I I think you're right. This number is there are situations kids need help. Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:They're but both mom and dad are pieces of crap. Right. And they're in a they're in a the whole family's piece of crap. They need help. Right. They and and thank goodness we're providing some.
Steve Palmer [:And where do we draw the line, though? That's always the problem. Where do you draw the line? So like you said, Norm, look, I have been in disciplined situation with my boys where I'm sure if they had a crisis number, they could call somebody. Sure. And I've there's, like, there's a YouTube video. I've seen it. It's popped up a couple times, some viral video, where the cop shows up because the parent or the kid called on the parent. Right. And, the cop I can't remember how how it unfolded, but the cop takes the the parent's side.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah. And, you know, that's what you'd want to happen.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Like, look. You don't get to have every you don't get to have a a cookie for breakfast, and you can throw the tantrum all the tantrum you want. In that kid's eyes right then, that's a crisis. Yes. That's a crisis.
Norm Murdock [:Sure it is. In a in a six year old
Steve Palmer [:In a six year old mind. No. Exactly. Escalate that. Like, look. No, son. I'm taking your car away because you didn't do your chores. Right.
Steve Palmer [:That's a crisis. How am I supposed to get to school? Or I found beer cans
Norm Murdock [:in the back seat.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I found beer cans in the back seat. So now you're taking the bus for a week. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big crisis. Right. But, you know, where where is it? Now it's those are those are extreme examples, but what if it gets a little bit more blurry? And you don't know if it's a crisis.
Steve Palmer [:And you go to the parents and say, look. I've been struggling with this for years. I'm on it. And and then is is the government really gonna say, okay. We trust you? Yeah. No big deal. We trust you. And anybody's had children services in their lives, they can be very helpful.
Steve Palmer [:They can be a real big pain in the ass. So look. Oh, we're sure. Yeah. You know, look, because and I've said this the thousands of times. The government is made of people. People are inherently subject to human frailties and flaws. So, therefore, the government is made up of people that are subject to human inherent human frailties and flaws.
Steve Palmer [:That means it's not perfect. So don't think that the government can solve this any better than the parents. Right. Yet as Brett points out, there is a time when we'd want that. So all I can say here is proceed with extreme caution.
Norm Murdock [:Well, what I don't like about this from day one for whether it's the 50 counties now or by July, the deadline to do all 88 counties. My problem with this is structural. I think we we already have a 911 system. We already have emergency response, call in centers. They came up with a 10 digit number that, I'm sorry, is an eight or a nine year old they know 911. They don't know a 10 digit.
Steve Palmer [:And and you get into this thing. It's like
Norm Murdock [:It's ridiculous. Why can't the person who receives the call the the way I would resolve this with governor DeWine is that you got 911 centers all over the state in in existence right now. Why do you need a separate system? Somebody gets a call from
Steve Palmer [:Who's making money?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Well Who gets a call from a child? Right?
Steve Palmer [:I wanna know who's making money to set
Norm Murdock [:this up.
Norm Murdock [:A 911, you know, operator gets a call. That person should be able to decide or have the authority to decide to either refer this to the police or refer it to, an MRD at at the a a Department of Mental Health And I think and send a counselor.
Steve Palmer [:And, Brett, you just said, like, how did we get along for so long without such a crisis team? Right. And what's been going on now that says, now we really, really need it?
Norm Murdock [:I and This is a mental health SWAT team is what he's creating.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Yeah. And as Thomas Sowell always says, such programs are always judged not on their effectiveness, but on their purpose, on their state of purpose. So we shall see. And like you said, the law of unintended consequences here is gonna take over, and there's gonna be things that are not so good about this. And it's gonna cost lots and lots and lots of state taxpayer money, and we're all gonna be looking at this in a few years saying, what because you you can't get rid of this once it's created.
Norm Murdock [:Well, funny story. So I'll tell you how the Murdock household dealt with this. I had a I had a shutter to think. Yeah. Well, so you know what? I I called my son's bluff. I had my youngest son, basically object that I took him off the computer after one hour. He got one hour per day maximum, no more. So he headed out the bathroom window, about 10:00 at night.
Norm Murdock [:He's gonna run away from home. And he says, I'm gonna call children's services. I'm leaving the house. And I reach into my pants, got out a quarter, and I said, I'll say, look. You don't have to run out of the house. Here's a quarter, you know, symbolically. Call call them. Call children's services.
Norm Murdock [:Call them right now, and you'll be eating, like, Campbell's Soup with weenies and tomatoes, you know, tomato soup. And you'll you'll be in a house with, you know, some foster family for two or three days till they figure out your mom and I are are not monsters, and we have a perfectly fine home. And nobody's you have no bruises. Nobody's getting beaten here. But, yeah, I have some strict rules, and you're gonna abide by them.
Steve Palmer [:I remember, I
Norm Murdock [:He he stayed in the house.
Steve Palmer [:I had we had one one Saturday, I had my sons at the they're over my place, and I was like, yeah. What are we doing today, dad? I said, we're gonna learn how to clean hardwood floors. Yeah. And they looked at me, like, what are you talking? Yeah. Right. And they they were they were just I mean, they pitched a fit. And, like, you know, we moved all the furniture. We got out the little Bona thing, and we all cleaned floors.
Norm Murdock [:Did some chores.
Steve Palmer [:Did some chores. And Yeah. And, you know, they at that point, there was a we had counselors in our world, and they they're like, we just want a normal household. And the counselors laughed at them. Like, what do you think is normal? Exactly. Like, what do you what do you think this is? Like, bubble gum and video games all day long?
Norm Murdock [:Dad is teaching you responsibility.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And it it it Hello? It like, that's parenting. Right? So And maybe this is we've circled back, Brett, to where we started, which is how did we get to the spot? And and it's because we don't parent anymore. Yeah. You know, maybe maybe there is that problem.
Norm Murdock [:We wanna be friends with our our our kids instead and
Steve Palmer [:teaching a kid to do chores and and clean up after themselves has become like this evil thing.
Norm Murdock [:Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, I it's not.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's that is normal. Hire a house keeper to do that, dad. Yeah. I'm not cleaning up my toys.
Steve Palmer [:No. And and anyway.
Norm Murdock [:Anyway. Right. A little bit about this parolees thing. This is, it's so the Supreme Court, put a they supported an an appeals court in its motion, to put a TRO on this program until it can be litigated. And what this program is was the Biden program where Biden violated the statute. And instead of following the statute, president Biden, instead of having a case by case, analysis and hearing on on each application for parole where a person claims, I can't wait for asylum. I can't wait for, you know, that kind of process. I'm in immediate danger of being, you know, killed be because of some political thing in Haiti or Venezuela or whatever back home.
Norm Murdock [:And so I am applying on this app to president Biden to be included in a mass parole. So Biden did not follow the statute, and he issued mass paroles of 530,000 people, all told, who flew in under this program and stayed. And we had a hundred thousand of them in, say, Springfield, Ohio. Haitians. That's how they got here under this program. And so what Trump proposed to do and what he was in the process of doing was reversing Biden's illegal non due process activation of this statute. So Biden did no due process. And what the argument is is that even though it'll take thirty years to do this, all 530 of thousand of these parolees are somehow being argued by their, you know, pro illegal immigrant attorneys.
Norm Murdock [:It's being argued that they have the right individually to have a due process deportation hearing, one by one, case by case. And, you know, I would just say to justice Roberts when this gets litigated, hey, justice Roberts. They came in without any due process. They came in on a violation of the statute that allows the president to grant parole. They should be eligible to be deported for under the same exact circumstances where there should there should not need to be a hearing. And what's interesting is the opposite the political opponents to president Trump are lining up in you know, backing up the, the rights, if you will, of these parolees to have due process. But what's interesting is president Obama deported 3,000,000 people, most of which had no due process hearing whatsoever other than an administrative analysis by the Customs and Border Patrol who they have courts inside these detention areas, and a hearing officer basically looks at their paperwork and says, yep. He can be deported.
Norm Murdock [:And they did that within fourteen days, under Obama to 3,000,000 people. But somehow under Trump, we transmogrify what their due process rights are now. Go, Steve.
Norm Murdock [:Well, sounds like they have they have precedent. I mean, if it's done before, they they have the right to deal with
Steve Palmer [:the rest. I mean, look.
Norm Murdock [:This is He's Obama. This is Trump.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, I know. I know.
Norm Murdock [:Rules are
Norm Murdock [:just saying.
Steve Palmer [:I I saw some stats on the number of deportations going back all the way, I think, to Bush one. And there were significantly more than the deportations going on under Trump, at least so far.
Norm Murdock [:So far.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And now Trump's only had a few months. So that that's that is a little bit
Norm Murdock [:askew. Coming up on a hundred days.
Steve Palmer [:It is a compared
Norm Murdock [:to close to it, isn't it?
Steve Palmer [:It is a little bit askew. But I think what's important, and this is back to maybe where we started. Right? Jan Cassius has a lean and hungry look about him. Such men are dangerous. I mean, people are out to stop Trump just because he's Trump. And, I think this is the problem. Now it what I would say to Trump is tread a little bit lighter. You can still get all this done.
Steve Palmer [:You don't need to pound the table and and, shoot off fireworks here. Let's just get this done methodically, clearly. And I think Trump has a tendency, as I've pointed out, that we've we've discussed here and argued about perhaps, is that he tends to make a show out of things at times, and that doesn't serve him well. He's giving the other side fodder. And I I think if,
Norm Murdock [:so Like, Steve, you would think that I know you've been busy with your case, but just so you know. So a couple of days ago, Catherine Levitt, you know, the White House spokeslady
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:She brought on the mother of that, is it Rachel Morin, I think is the name? Yeah. The the mother of five children and one grandchild brought that mother into the White House briefing room and had her talk about, well, what about my daughter's due process? Right? She was had her skull bashed in with a rock, and then she was raped up against a wall in a jogging park in DC.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. No. I don't have any problem with that.
Norm Murdock [:But what if you have a problem with You know? So look. But at the same time media right. I'm just let me finish. Yep. Just ten seconds. The media in the room turned off the cameras. I mean, CNN so there's clips. MSNBC, CNN turned off their feed from the White House Briefing Room.
Norm Murdock [:They don't want that story to populate. Not. So this is Trump. So when you talk a little bit about bombast, I would just balance that out with saying, although Trump is all over the map and he is kind of like the the crazy president that nobody knows what he's gonna do for, you know, you know, the the guy who keeps, other countries second guessing what he's gonna do. I get all that. But I think he has to amp up what what is the result of unfettered illegal immigration.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's right.
Norm Murdock [:So I'm just saying that.
Steve Palmer [:I'm agreeing with you.
Norm Murdock [:I'm mad.
Steve Palmer [:So look. My message would be Okay. Folks, I'm not doing anything anybody else hasn't done. Yeah. I'm not enacting any new policy. Yeah. I'm simply undoing, all the wrongs of the Biden administration consistent with what Obama did, consistent with what Bush did, consistent with what Clinton did, consistent with all these other presidents. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, to the extent you wanna start to make your point, you would say things like he's doing. It is interesting to me that the media doesn't care about the bad stuff that's happening Right. As a result of this. Exactly. They only want to oppose me because I'm me. Right. And I am saying to you, I'm not doing any different than the other presidents. Now now look, is that gonna make the splash? No.
Steve Palmer [:But what I'm talking about that I think was ill advised is Kristi Noem posing in front of this this cage of people behind her. I don't know if you saw that picture. I did. And, you know, I don't think that's a good look. I mean, I
Norm Murdock [:I don't either.
Steve Palmer [:And and that's the kind of stuff that's gonna get you flack. You don't need to do that.
Norm Murdock [:I like that she went there to inspect the living conditions of the people we're deporting.
Steve Palmer [:Yes.
Norm Murdock [:I think that's is her role. I think that's part of her role. I agree with you that posing with them in cages like they're animals
Steve Palmer [:Right. Bad luck.
Norm Murdock [:Bad luck. Bad look. I would not have done it, and she did it in tight fitting. She was clearly showing off her feminine physique.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:And it wasn't and people have noted that. Yeah. A lot of her pictures well, she's a beautiful lady. I am. But but why are you posing in
Steve Palmer [:a picture where
Norm Murdock [:shirtless men
Norm Murdock [:Who's it for? Who's it for?
Norm Murdock [:Who's it for? Who's it for?
Norm Murdock [:And it's to me, and I'll answer that, it's for Trump. Yeah. It's it's showing off for him.
Steve Palmer [:It's a So so she
Norm Murdock [:gets so they get accolades. Oh, look at no. She's my gal. You know? Or he's my guy.
Steve Palmer [:Down and yeah.
Norm Murdock [:I I I Some of it, I I I just it sometimes it feels that way.
Norm Murdock [:But yeah. Let let let me counterpose something. Right? So we talk we we talked extensively about lawfare against Trump prior to him becoming president because they wanted to I mean, they were taking him off the ballots, and they they had to restore his name. They were trying to put him in prison. This case on the on the stupid, the the collateral value of Mar a Lago, where they say he overstated what it was worth. And, of course, Leticia James is in her own little pickle on on lying on a mortgage application. All of this stuff, lawfare. So the new lawfare now, there are over 100 national, TROs or injunctions against Trump.
Norm Murdock [:And they've looked back at other presidents just like Steve looked back on immigration. They've looked back on these national, injunctions by district courts. And Trump is like if you add up the last six presidents, he's he's he's garnered, over a hundred of these, which is more than the total of the last six presidents combined. So the clearly, the new lawfare is to try to stop him by abusing, I'll say that, abusing the federal judicial system. And and I would just say, look, you know, this is part this is his bailiwick. He gets to do foreign policy.
Steve Palmer [:They they they being the opposition, the these folks who want to oppose Trump at every stage
Norm Murdock [:Every stage.
Steve Palmer [:No matter what it is. Because Trump, it's wrong. That's right. Even I remember, even, Kamala Harris saying on stage that if the vaccine were Trump's, she wouldn't take it. I I I remember that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's crazy.
Steve Palmer [:And then it was then two months later, it was the most important thing that, in fact, we everybody has to take it. Right. So the the point is is that they are opposing Trump just because he's Trump and not looking behind what he's trying to do. And they do that at their own peril. They do that at their own peril. And this is one of my favorite quotes. This is the the man for all seasons where, you know, now you give the devil the benefit of the law. And sir Thomas Moore says, yes.
Steve Palmer [:What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the devil? Yes. I'd cut down every law in England to do that. Oh, and when the last law was down and the devil turned around on you, where would you hide, Roper? The law is all being flat. This country is planted thick with laws from coast to coast, man's law, not God's. And if you cut them down and you'd be just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that blow you then? Yes. I'd give the devil the benefit of law for my own safety sake. And and this is this is what they're doing, and it's what they've done. So they they set these precedents, and they they will they will suffer the consequences when their man or their gal is sitting in the White House.
Steve Palmer [:They will suffer this. And this is the old, Right. Mitch McConnell. It's like, I told you so.
Norm Murdock [:Let me give you an example that I just dreamed up, Steve. So we know what Biden did. He kinda created precedent with, Fauci and other people on prospective prosecutions for crimes they haven't been charged with and for trials that they're not in and for convictions that haven't happened. It's prospective. Right? Forgiveness or, when when the president does expunge it not expunges,
Steve Palmer [:but Pardon. Pardon. Pardon.
Norm Murdock [:I'll find it. Yeah. I couldn't get the word. And so what I'm thinking is on all of this like Garcia where where the this judge is about to issue, you know, orders that you're in contempt of court and start fining people at the Department of Homeland Security because they're not facilitating his return Beware. Hey. Trump can pardon him prospectively. He can say, hey, Kristi Noem and, and other people at DHS are involved in this judge. Pardon.
Norm Murdock [:You're by pardon. Stick that right up your butt, judge.
Steve Palmer [:Under the guise of taking down a man called Trump, the his opponents are willing to sacrifice all the protections that have been in place. And not just ones that are written down, but ones that have been honored through tradition. Right. And they do that at their own peril because it won't be long before the other side's in power.
Norm Murdock [:You say many times, and I love this quote of yours. I'm gonna butcher it. But, basically, our government won't work unless people of good hearts, essentially, this is what your people who have good patriotism want it to work.
Steve Palmer [:Want it
Norm Murdock [:to work. If you don't want it to work, right, we're gonna be at the Supreme Court. I mean, justice Roberts is gonna be hearing these cases every week, every day. If the two sides don't decide, hey, we want the country to work. We're not gonna take everything.
Steve Palmer [:Can we decide as a country, as I think our I I think anybody who looks at this this at at the unlawful immigration, if we I think anybody who looks at that would say, yeah, that got out of control. Yeah. It was totally out of control. Yeah. So can we decide that that was out of control and we need to do something to fix it? And other than saying, well, since Trump is doing it, it must be bad. And and look, and and what that does in to Trump's, in Trump's on Trump's part, is it brings out the worst in him. Yeah. Because then he's the guy that'll start slinging mud back.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And it brings out the worst in it, and they know that. Right.
Norm Murdock [:He shouldn't have to pardon these people. That's ridiculous. But I but if they're gonna get to the point where they're gonna take Tom Homan, you're gonna go to prison because you didn't do what this district court judge says, Trump's gonna pardon him. It's an interesting gonna happen.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So it's just a seesaw of stupidity that that gets nothing done. Yeah. And, you know, all I can say is we are toying with these fundamental, structures that have been in place for our entire existence. Yeah. We're toying with this stuff. Yeah. And it's it just can't be good.
Norm Murdock [:No. Definitely pushing the elasticity Yeah. Of of what it is. Yeah. Hopefully, the rubber band doesn't break.
Norm Murdock [:You're gonna have at some point Trump and his favorite president is Andrew Jackson Jackson, which is a little scary.
Steve Palmer [:It's not scary if anybody studies him.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Which you know, he's the guy who ended the the US bank. He got rid of the bank. He also told the Supreme Court that they could take if you have a division if you have an army, send them down to Georgia and North Carolina, to block me from making the Cherokee Nation leave, the Eastern states and and force them to go west on the Trail Of Tears. He basically told the Supreme Court found against him.
Steve Palmer [:And did it anyway.
Norm Murdock [:He did it anyway.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Do we really want Trump? Why did why that is not gonna be good for the country.
Steve Palmer [:Bad for everybody.
Norm Murdock [:It's bad for everybody, man. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And they but here's what it is. I think here's what I'm really trying to say that just dawned on me that might be obvious. It's almost as if they're doing this on purpose in order to set Trump up for something like that. They they know their response, and they're doing it only to get him. To get a constitutional crisis.
Norm Murdock [:Just to get him.
Steve Palmer [:To develop to to get him. And that's not look. Don't we all love the country?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I I would hope. Don't we love the country?
Norm Murdock [:You know? You would you would hope you would love the country and its privileges allowed to us.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Yes. Yes.
Norm Murdock [:If nothing else.
Steve Palmer [:It is it is because
Norm Murdock [:we have a ton of privileges and rights, whatever you wanna call it, because I now I'm hearing the well, it's not really rights. It's privileges if it could be taken away. It's like, okay. Yeah. Their rights, but I'm just saying.
Steve Palmer [:We also have rights and we have rights and privileges. Both are safe. Both.
Norm Murdock [:A lot of countries don't have what we have.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:So we need Not even close. Not even close. So if not, you know
Norm Murdock [:And we get mocked for it by those other countries. We definitely They don't understand the second amendment, for example. Right. In England, they don't even understand our first amendment. You know, like like we talked about the lady on the sidewalk who was just silent. Mhmm. And the cop went up to her and said, well, what are you what are you thinking? And she said, I'm praying for those women over there who are having abortions across the street.
Steve Palmer [:She ends up in cuffs.
Norm Murdock [:She ends up in cuffs.
Steve Palmer [:It's crazy.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, what is that? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:See, this is, the experiment that we have here is is the freest existence that's ever been created in humanity that we know about. You know, maybe there was other humanities that existed before us, but the ones that we know about, this has gotta be the freest. I mean, it's gotta be. It's gotta be. And it's been it's not always perfect, and it's been really, really imperfect at times and really, really bad at times. But, like, the way things exist right now, we have these people protesting they're literally protesting their own freedom on their iPhones that they you know, it's like there it is insanity.
Norm Murdock [:It is insanity.
Steve Palmer [:It is insanity.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Well, a little reprieve on we talked last week, about the Chillicothe paper plant, 800 jobs. That is the anchor industry in the city of Chillicothe that which used to be the capital of Ohio, by the way. Chillicothe, Ohio, the paper plant there, got a reprieve. So our friend who was here in studio, now US senator, Bernie Moreno, led the effort. He said this is private equity buying out, this paper plant, years ago and then deciding because they're not Ohioans. Like, they could care less about Chillicothe. They just decided this plant is costing them too much, and they're gonna remove operations, which is their right.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, you know, like, it's not it shouldn't be against the law, but somebody should speak for these workers. And Bernie Marina went in, led a rally. The owners of the paper plant, crumpled and said, okay. They can keep their jobs until January first of twenty twenty six, by which time we will seek out a solution. Either another company buys our plant or we retool here and make this a viable factory. So so that's good. I mean, because those people were gonna get sixty day notices that they had gotten them.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You know? So good good good for our senator. I'd like to see Yeah. Them get involved in local issues. It's not all at the federal level. You know? Take care of our people here at home. So good on Bernie, you know, for for stepping up for those people.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. Well, at least being a middleman and a negotiator or at least what are how can we save this
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Situation? And maybe it's not saveable. I I don't know. I mean, potentially, but I again, I didn't realize until, Marino started talking about it. I didn't realize it was a holding company business. So I was like, okay. That was not I missed that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And I kinda okay. That makes sense that they they have no soul in it to in their you know, to to to know that, yep, gotta take care of it.
Norm Murdock [:And this might actually feed back into the tariff thing. So if there is a tariff on foreign paper coming in, perhaps that allows Ohio paper companies, for example, to be able to undercut foreign competition because they will not be paying obviously, their customers don't pay a tariff on something made in Ohio. So, this could be part of the reshoring of industry.
Norm Murdock [:Maybe. Yeah. Or at least under the guise of it to Yeah. Make, some forward movements to keep
Norm Murdock [:industry here. So I saw, like, on India, we the agricultural equipment and, Harley Davidson's and other vehicles and machinery was 85% tariff to be brought to India and negotiating that down now to near zero. So, that could benefit the paper plant too. Yeah. Same kind of thing.
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:Other Ohio news, lieutenant governor Jim Tressel, famously coach of Ohio State, later, president of Youngstown State University, which is a, as stated, a public university. He's now lieutenant governor, of Ohio. He stated he's not running for governor. So I think Brett suspects that might be a false flag. I don't know. Maybe not.
Norm Murdock [:I don't I don't have any tea leaves to read. It just I think yeah. Yeah. As we set off, Mike, if he has a few dinners with a few well heeled funders
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It may change his mind. I don't know what they may not like the Vex point of view or Yost's point of view, but they really love him.
Steve Palmer [:The scent of power is a tough one to avoid.
Norm Murdock [:It is.
Norm Murdock [:And who who hasn't said, no. I'm not running and then a few months later say,
Norm Murdock [:well, you're right about that.
Norm Murdock [:I've had a lot of people talk to me and and they've convinced me that
Steve Palmer [:For the good of the states Yes.
Norm Murdock [:For the good of the states.
Norm Murdock [:Set aside my mind. I'm a Buckeye. You're right.
Norm Murdock [:And I this is not you know, anything against Jim Tressel. I I I'm assuming he's a nice guy and he's human, but, hey, politics is politics.
Steve Palmer [:So we got some good and bad?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Let's do that. We can talk about the Google antitrust case next week. That's an interesting case and and a couple other things. But, yeah, my outrage would be, I'm calling this in on my own congressman, Troy Balderson. So last week, president ex former president Biden gave a big speech in Chicago, which was his coming out party. I think he got paid something like $350,000 for this speech, in Chicago. And one of the things he bragged about was a bill sponsored by Ohio's Republican congressman, Troy Balderson.
Norm Murdock [:And what that bill was is to give double dippers, federal workers federal employees that are double dippers who are are benefiting from their federal pension. So they're retired. They're from one job, and and that had a federal pension. And then they go, say, from the Department of Defense, they had a pension. Then they go to work for the post office, let's say, which is a very common thing. Or they go work for the IRS or whatever. And now they're getting they're paying into Social Security. And so when they retire and there's this overlap, there was something in the law called, basically anti, you know, taking advantage of the American people because they're getting paid the full amount of their Social Security if were it not for this, earlier, proviso.
Norm Murdock [:And they and they obviously, they're getting their full pension. So what and Biden did, they passed this legislation that Biden is now bragging about that allows them to receive full Social Security on top of their full pension. And although this only affects people in that transition period between when the federal government had pensions and now they're on Social Security, it still affects, like, I don't know, like, a a few hundred thousand former, federal employees. And I think that's outrageous myself. And you and I can't do that.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. No.
Norm Murdock [:So No. No. But they they can do it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's true. Well, my outrageous, I mentioned earlier in regards to just the the comments against the situation with Pope and and and JD Vance and such like that. But I I think this is a good thing. There's school policies banning Lifewise treats and trinkets opens them to lawsuits, Lifewise attorney says. So, as everybody's heard, I'm not a Lifewise academy fan in regards to inserting themselves into school, through, legislation and such. But, they're they're saying an attorney representing Lifewise is warning Ohio School Districts that they could be sued if they use a model policy preventing religious release groups from providing materials, candies, or trinkets to the students. Well, as a parent, I can't go in and bring in candy either.
Norm Murdock [:I think they mean during instruction by Lifewise. Oh, no.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. No. No. No. No. No. When you bring it back to school.
Norm Murdock [:Then they give the trinkets. Yeah. I wouldn't be in favor.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think that's a a good thing because they're shining light on. It's like, yeah. You're you're it's marketing material, folks.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Come on.
Norm Murdock [:You know? Give me a break. So, I I think this is a good thing. That's just bring it on. Bring the little suit on because I think it's gonna showcase that folks, you're recruiting. You're grooming. If you want it I'll call it grooming. I'll call it that. You're You're bringing trying to bring people in during the day.
Norm Murdock [:You're already disrupting the day. Stop it. You got your two hours a day.
Steve Palmer [:Well, on my part, I've, I've I've been out. I've been out in a hearing out in one of the counties in Ohio. I'm not gonna say which county, but I was out in a hearing. And I had one of my colleagues with me, and we got into this discussion about some outrageous stuff that we are both watching in the system, in the criminal justice system. And for those who know, I represent folks charged with crimes. Not often are they real, if you look at the crimes that they're accused of committing, whether they actually did it or not, they're often not the most maybe maybe the most reprehensible crimes you can imagine. Right? So I represent people at the in in really bad situations. And I I encountered something in this hearing where, this guy was accused of a crime and, even the jailers, were doing things like tipping off the other inmates and saying this guy's in this cell or this guy's in this cell.
Steve Palmer [:Then one of the jailers was on the on the Facebook, on the on the Twitter, whatever it is, tweeting about this case that happened to be going on in court in that county. I find that insanely outrageous. Oh, yeah. And Oh, yeah. It it led into a discussion with my colleague about, he's from Michigan, and there's a there's some stuff going on in the case where the parents were convicted of crimes when the son went in and committed a school shooting. I I think people are familiar with that case. And it turns out there was a pretty egregious discovery violation. Key witnesses in that case got deals that the prosecutor didn't tell the defense about.
Steve Palmer [:So in other words, the the witnesses had a motive. So and my point is back to the the man for all seasons quote. It's like, we are we are we are it's not new territory. We've been here a long time. I mean, that that's a that that those quotes have been around for a long time. But Yeah. We are in a situation where people are willing up and down the ladder to forego the basic protections, because their cause is right. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And, I I find that outrageous. I find that and in fact, that's what motivates me to do what I do, not to help somebody who's actually committed horrible things. Right. But it's to protect against those who wouldn't. And, it's I I find it insanely outrageous that that stuff goes on. And it was going on in these situations by government actors.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. That's terrible.
Steve Palmer [:Like government actors. In the in the other side of my case, they were taking positions and arguments only to find some reason not to give this guy relief because they believed in their cause so much. So, you know, be careful. Again, that's my message of the day. Shred with caution.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Because you give this stuff away, and it never comes back. Alright?
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah. Yeah. The the idea that, like, as despicable as he was Jeffrey Dahmer being shipped while he's, serving his prison sentence Mhmm. Is is clearly wrong. I mean, if the state is not putting him to death, a a a fellow inmate has absolutely no right to beat himself and kill him.
Steve Palmer [:But the question is, was he assisted by a a guard turning the blind eye Yeah. To something? And it wouldn't surprise me.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, no. They turn away. Oh, I don't see that fight on the on the exercise ground. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Makes it makes it makes a great movie, but it doesn't make great life.
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know
Norm Murdock [:what I mean. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Look. My wonderful at the same time, I went out to a county where often you go out and you're unknown and, you're you're the outsider Yeah. Enemy, so to speak. Yeah. Not in the least these folks out there treated me with the utmost courtesy and respect. And thank you all. You know who you are if you're listening. It was phenomenal.
Steve Palmer [:And the courtroom deputies who were there to to maintain order, absolute pros. It couldn't have been any better. I actually went up and I I went up to tell the gentleman that, and my colleague had already beat me to it because and and we hadn't talked about it. We both both experienced it all the same thing. Yeah. So in the in the course of human affairs, we have both bad and good and, hopefully, somewhere in the middle of the two meet.
Norm Murdock [:That's excellent. That's great. That's good to hear. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It is. Exactly. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:You got a good wonderful?
Norm Murdock [:That would the the the life wise, that's a good well, I think it's good wonderful to shed light on this. Gotcha. So, yeah, that's what that was.
Norm Murdock [:My wonderful is just what we talked about at the top of the show. I think it's, it's wonderful, you know, or right with all the differences that I have. You know, I went to a a Jesuit high school, so I'm very familiar with the Jesuits. And pope Francis was the only Jesuit pope so far, and so whatever about that. But, I am touched very deeply that he participated in Easter mass, in Saint Peter's Square, and, he went out on his own terms. He did not resign. He he died the next morning, and I think God had something to do with it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It
Steve Palmer [:would sound like. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Well, good night. Good night. Good night. Good night.
Steve Palmer [:Parting is such sweet sorrow that I shall say good night till it be tomorrow. That's Romeo and Juliet for
Norm Murdock [:years of scholars.
Steve Palmer [:Or you could follow the Tempest. Our revels are now ended. That is Common Sense Ohio. Common Sense Ohio Show dot com. And, you can check us out at the website. You can check us out on the all the social media platforms. You can watch us live right here streaming at you week in and week out. If If you've got questions, topics, anything you want to cover, just shoot us a question, shoot us a comment, do whatever you do to get in touch with us because we're out there, brought to you week in and week out, of course, right from the middle by Harper Plus Accounting.
Steve Palmer [:See you next time
