Today we’ll be helping you nod off as we're joined by sleep scientist and therapist Dr Kat Lederle. The team discuss how improving your routine can help you get a more restful sleep, while we also explain the symptoms sleep apnea.

Later we also hear from the testing team at Which? to find out whether you can buy yourself a good night’s rest with the right mattress and pillow.

Check out our latest pillow & mattress reviews (subscription required) & sign up to become a Which? member.

Speaker 1 0:02

Today we'll be helping you not off. Although ideally not while listening to this podcast, we're going to be joined by sleep scientist and therapist, Dr. Cat leader. And we'll be talking to the testing team at which to find out whether you can buy yourself a good night's rest with the right mattress and pillow. I'm Grace Pharrell. And I'm Harry kind. And this is get answers for living your best consumer life. When life gives you questions. Which get answers. Harry, would you say you're a good sleeper?

Speaker 2 0:32

I'm really lucky, I barely need to think about sleep at all. I had a brief period last year working away having to go on overnight trips and stuff like that, where I suddenly got into a kind of overthinking sleep. And I really was struggling to sleep. And realize that actually, all I need to do was set my alarm clock earlier, get up a bit earlier and open the window, and I fixed it. So I am incredibly privileged with that. Hang

Speaker 1 1:00

on. So set your alarm earlier. So you actually needed to get less sleep.

Speaker 2 1:04

I think it was less the get less sleep and more I had the problem of you've got something happening in the morning. So you wake up every hour on the hour worth convinced, even though it's dark, and there's no noise that it is seven, eight. Yeah. And what I realized was that if I had like an hour to get ready in the morning, I knew that anytime that I woke up thinking that it was time to go, I could also wake up thinking I've got ages before I need to go even if it was the time of first wake up. If that makes any sleep addled logic. It does have. I was just like giving you that little bit of comfort window. I also managed to train myself into not looking at the clock, like you wake up in the middle the night just don't look at the clock.

Speaker 1 1:47

I'm not bad sleeping. Yeah, do you know I think I used to get insomnia. Every few months or a few years, I get a bout of insomnia. And then when I had children, I think the sleep is just so bad with a newborn, that you'll get like two hours sleep and be like really functioning well. Yeah. And I think just after that, even if you have a terrible night's sleep, or you don't sleep, it's like I've done it before. It's fine. And I think it's a lot of it is about the psychology of like, I have not slept well. But I will get through the day, like nothing terrible is gonna happen. Yeah,

Speaker 2 2:19

I have not slept in a night at all done an all nighter and you survive? Well,

Speaker 1 2:24

a lot of people do suffer with sleep problems. And so today, we're joined by Dr. Cat leader. She's asleep scientist and body clock expert. And she's the author of sleep scents. Welcome, Kate, it's so good to have you on the show. Pleasure to be here.

Unknown Speaker 2:38

Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 1 2:39

So how common would you say sleep issues are very common.

Speaker 3 2:44

And so at any given time, there's about 30% of the population who will struggle with their sleep, and usually that sort of short term, and then it resolves itself. And we call this acute insomnia symptoms. And then we have another 10% Who chronically suffer from poor sleep, which is chronic insomnia. And then of course, we have other sleep disorders, sleep apnea, restless legs, so there's a lot going on. But if we just look at sort of problems falling or staying asleep, as I said, at any given time, it's about 30%. And then there's another 10%, where this is a chronic, ongoing problem. And it's not something

Speaker 2 3:19

that you think is like increasing over time. I feel like people talk about sleep more. But are we sleeping less? Do you think

Speaker 3 3:27

either yes, and no, I think we are sleeping less. That doesn't mean necessarily, there's a sleep problem behind it. That could simply be the choice to delay bedtime, right? And that's often what it is. We humans were the only creatures who willingly delay our bedtime for dog or cat. We wouldn't do that. But we do because hey, there's another episode that I want to watch or, you know when to go to this party, whatever it might be. The problem is that our wakeup time, the alarm clock, that stays pretty much the same, at least Monday to Friday, because we have to get to work, get the kids to school, whatever it is. And so there is a shortening of sleep. And then in addition, we have the sleep problems as in the disorders and are they on the rise? Well, they certainly were during the pandemic weather levels have sort of normalized if that's the right word. I'm not too sure.

Speaker 1 4:16

And would you say a lot of that was due to stress, then? Yeah,

Speaker 3 4:20

stress that leads to anxiety, there was a lot of uncertainty again, that will lead to anxiety. So yeah, that the novelty is suddenly changing our routines and changes in routine. They can also have a knock on effect on sleep. So there was a lot that happened back then. Yeah. I guess

Speaker 1 4:36

you split sleep problems into two camps. You've got physical sleep disorders, right. But then you've also got the more sort of mental, you know, anxiety related sleep disorders. Can you tell us a little bit about the difference?

Speaker 3 4:49

Yeah, so insomnia in most instances is to do with anxiety or stress, but it can develop alongside a more physical sleep disorder. So He has sleep apnea where you have problems breathing, or rather you stop breathing during the night repeatedly, and then you gasp for air, which is that loud snore, it may or may not wake you up fully. But certainly we call it a micro arousal, there's a disruption to your sleep, which will make you more tired the next day, and so on and so forth. And insomnia can sort of develop alongside sleep apnea that people become afraid, oh, my God, what will happen tonight? You know, Will I have another rubbish night? And how will I feel tomorrow? And suddenly, yes, then you have to sleep disorders. At the same time.

Speaker 1 5:31

I know a lot of people are worried at the moment about sleep apnea. I don't know whether it's on the rise, or there's just more knowledge out there. But what are the symptoms? What might make someone think that they have sleep apnea? And what should you do if you suspect you have it.

Speaker 3 5:44

So you may not always be aware of the symptoms. And because as I just said, you stop breathing, that will then wake you up. But it doesn't need to be a full conscious waking up, it can just be sort of a little disruption. But you yourself, don't perceive it. Often. If there's a bed partner, the bed partner will say, hey, you know, you kept me awake last night, because you were snoring, so very loudly. So that is certainly one let's call it symptom or sign. Another symptom could be excessive sleepiness during the day, that's a big one. And that's actually bigger in women than in men as a symptom, then other sort of hints towards it are being a middle aged male, being overweight, that is certainly a risk factor. But also we see in women then increase in sleep apnea, post menopause, probably, again, because there are changes to tissue. And so we see a high incidence rate there as well. But I think the real is the snoring at night and feeling excessively tired during the day without sort of an explanation, let's say, and then I would say, you know, go to the doctor see that you get an overnight test done, to measure what's going on. So

Speaker 1 6:53

are there things that we can do to give ourselves the best opportunity for a good night's rest. And I like

Speaker 3 6:59

your phrasing the best opportunity rather than the best sleep. Because sleep in itself, we cannot control. It's a biological process that we cannot control. And that is very hard to accept. But that's the truth of the matter. However, I can absolutely create the best opportunity, the best environment and by environment. Yes, of course, I mean the bedroom. But it also includes what I do during the day, right? What I eat, when I eat, how much coffee I consume more caffeine, genuinely, alcohol movement, spending time outdoors, as well as stress level, something you mentioned early on. So there's a lot that I can do in my waking life, right, because if we think about 24 hour day, 16 hours, we're awake, eight hours asleep, I've got 16 hours to prepare to create the perfect environment that we can sort of use to look after our sleep. But again, we cannot control it, nothing will guarantee the perfect night's sleep whatever perfect, by the way means it feels

Speaker 2 7:59

very similar to some of the conversations we had around Ultra processed food earlier in the series, where you can improve your health by filling your kitchen with the right kind of food and having the right environment. But if you're in a very tight space, you've not got any time you're really stressed, it's very hard to eat well, almost same with sleep if you are in a very cluttered bedroom. Because you're in a cramped housing environment. You're busy during the day you're working up until going to sleep and you're really struggling to build a nice place to sleep, you're going to have a bad night's sleep much like you might have a bad diet. Yeah,

Speaker 3 8:34

and in my view, it isn't just the responsibility of the individual, I can do my best to create the right environment. But if my working hours, or the workload is such that it induces a lot of stress and anxiety, I most likely will have troubles falling or staying asleep. Similarly, if parents are not supported in the right way, in particular mums here, they will have a problem just to go to bed on time again, what on time means I'm careful with all these rules, but it will eat into a mums you know, sleep opportunity.

Speaker 1 9:11

I'd love to deep dive a little bit into the things you mentioned that affect our sleep. So you mentioned things like caffeine. I mean, what what is your stance on caffeine? How much should we be drinking? When should we be stopping? Should we just not have any caffeine? What were what would you recommend?

Speaker 3 9:27

Yeah, so I would recommend digital shoots first. Because I think shoots and genuinely rules aren't helpful when it comes to sleep because you you become very rigid, and sleep needs relaxation. It needs expansion in a way. But to come back to your question around caffeine, so I love coffee. Absolutely nothing is better than a good cup of coffee. We just have to be aware of how sensitive one is and people differ in that. And also we have to be aware of how long the caffeine sort of stays active in the system and that is sort of Six to nine hours, you still have half of the caffeine you consumed. So therefore, we say, you know, have your cup of coffee or or two, but then by around two o'clock in the afternoon, then stop drinking coffee. Now, it will, of course, vary a little bit, if someone is an early bird, or going to bed early waking up early, you probably would cut out that caffeine a bit earlier, someone who naturally is sort of a night owl, and can sort of work and live according to their own personal times, it might be okay to have a cup of coffee, or three or four o'clock, right. So there is variation. But what I would also say is coming back to I'm not a fan of rules. Sometimes if I have an evening engagement, I might have a weak cup of coffee around three or four o'clock, because there's something going on in the evening that I want to be, you know, as alert for as I can, and then I will have that cup of coffee. But the next day, I'll go back to no coffee after 2pm. Right. So I'm flexible, depending on what's going on.

This might be the most shocking use of caffeine, and luckily, not alcohol, but caffeine. And you'll be scared of this growth, I feel my sheduled usually is I will have a coffee at about half past eight at night. And then I'll go to bed with a cup of tea. And I actually I think I struggle to sleep if I've not had caffeine after like eight o'clock because of something. And I think it could be because I have ADHD. And so it's a little bit of the kind of reverse stimulant effect. But I think also my whole family is a very we have from quite an early age have had caffeine very late at night. But as you say, people have their different rules and different bodies. And it's about experimenting with it. Yeah,

absolutely right, the genetic makeup will influence how you metabolize caffeine. And there are two processes that sort of help us fall asleep. One is called the sleep need. And that builds up during your waking hours. And then when you fall asleep, that empties out again, it's like filling up a tank and emptying up a tank. Now while filling it up takes about 16 hours, emptying happens much more quickly, maybe about four hours. And then there's a second process that sort of almost takes over, it's a bit like passing on a relay baton. And that second process is your circadian clock. And the clock regulates the timing of your sleep, we all have a slightly different sleep window, what time we sleep, I mentioned already early people lead people and the rest of us fall somewhere in between. And so the clock will then as I said, take over from that sleep need and keep us asleep until it says okay, now your sleep window is over. And it might be that when this relay baton is passed over that that is a bit more of a vulnerable time for us to wake up. And I should say that we all wake up a number of times during the night, we sleep in cycles of about 90 minutes, 220 minutes, and at the end of each cycle, we briefly wake up. Now this waking up is so short, that we're not aware of it, right unless we go to the bathroom, then we've fully wet or if there may be a noise outside at the same time we wake up fully. So it could be like I said, when there's this sort of passing on from the responsibility that that's sort of maybe a more vulnerable time point where it's easier for us to wake up fully. Now being awake at night, waking up in the middle of the night is not fun, right? And so typically, the response somewhere in the mind, and the body is oh my god, what has just happened, oh my god, what will happen tomorrow, if I don't get back to sleep within the next minute. And that might not be a conscious thought that might be more sort of somewhere in the back room of your head. But nevertheless, it probably has an impact on the body, not saying you immediately break out in sweat and you know, fully anxious, but there might be a bit of a tension, a bit of like, oh, what's going to happen next? What's going to happen next? And that then can make it harder to fall asleep? And then yeah, you use the word vicious cycle early on very fitting, then we quickly get into this vicious cycle or will I fall asleep? What if I don't fall asleep? And so on and so forth.

So what would you recommend you do to avoid getting really kind of in your head about it.

So you can't avoid those thoughts. That is a normal reaction of the mind of our brain, right, there's a problem that presents itself and then the mind will immediately go to task to solve this. However, you can learn to notice when your mind is trying to problem solve, and you don't have to engage in it any further. And that's where any kind of relaxation technique will be helpful or mindfulness, not necessarily doing mindfulness at 3am at night, but a mindfulness practice during the day trains you in spotting thoughts and stepping back from them. And that is really the technique you want to use in the middle of the night is to notice why are there all these problem solving thoughts? Yes, being awake at night is no fun, but there's nothing I can do. There's no button I can press on my nose and then I'll fall asleep. So let me just take a breath in and out focus a little bit on my breath and just lay here and just rest. And in doing so you are calming down first of all your body and when the body is calmer, the mind can get calmer as well. And that's when we You can fall asleep again. You

mentioned practicing mindfulness or breathing exercises. Can you recommend any resources for that? Well, there

are the big apps like headspace and calm. I think personally, there are many more choose the one that you resonate with. Because sometimes I have clients who say, Oh, I always go for this app literacy at headspace. And someone else says, oh, no, that's rubbish. And I'm gonna go for comm. And what it is, is just actually the voice of the person guiding the meditation. That's where sort of the dislike comes from. So I think you know, any good mindfulness app or going, you know, doing a face to face course, can be helpful. It's just about do I resonate with the voice? Do I resonate with the words that are being used here?

I can only apologize if people are trying to listen to this while using this to try and get to sleep. Because I know people who do listen to podcasts to try and get to sleep, I suppose in the tech space, then you've also got as well as mindfulness apps, you've got sleep tracking, is that a healthy behavior? Is it useful data?

Very good question. It depends on how you use it. It depends on your attitude. So if you obsess with getting the ideal, perfect night's sleep, and use your sleep tracker in that way, right, and trust that tracker, that data 100%, then it can probably actually lead to more harm than then good. And this phenomenon is called ortho Samia, there's a paper that came out a few years ago, where people obsessively track their sleep, and they get so preoccupied with getting that perfect night's sleep, that then actually induces a sleep problem of falling or staying asleep. So for me, trackers, I always say to my clients take it with a pinch of salt. It's a nice, you know, piece of data. But rather than looking at a single night, let's look at the pattern. Can we see a pattern here? And first of all, though, check in with yourself. So when you wake up, how do I feel for the rest of the day, regular checking in how do I feel because some people, and this includes me, I wake up and I'm ready, I can jump out of bed, my husband, he will take much longer, right until he is really present and awake. And this is called sleep inertia. And for him, it just takes longer than for me. So that's why I say check in in the morning when you wake up, but also during the day. And then also, of course, yeah, check the sleep tracker, but know that both will measure slightly different things. And I think both datasets together will give us a good picture rather than one of them alone.

And what about things like ear plugs? And I'm asks Do you think they're useful? Or do you think there's a risk that people become too dependent on them to go to sleep? Yeah,

good point, right? You can become dependent on anything in a way, right? So it's, for me always a question, how much do you need the eye mask or the earplugs? What happens if you don't have them? Right? If that feels you that thought fills you with panic, then you know, okay, there's an unhelpful dependency going on. For me, personally, I am light sensitive. And now that we moving into spring into summer in the sun coming up earlier, I will use an iron mask if I wake up around that time, but certainly during winter, I won't use an iron mask. So that's when I remain flexible. Same with earplugs, right? I'll put them in if there is, you know, noisy neighbor or something like that. But I won't go to sleep with them.

I know it's difficult, but I would love to get a sense from you of say kind of a typical an average person is experiencing average sleep problems, what would be maybe the top three or five things you would say to them as a starting point to help their sleep become better?

Very good question. Very good question. So I probably would first look at their sleep window are they going to bed at the time that's right for them and related to that other waking up at the time that's right for them. Now most of us in pre pandemic it was about 80% of the western population would use an alarm clock, which means 80% would shorten their sleep right? Because if you need an alarm clock to wake you up without that you would sleep for longer so therefore you know shorten sleep. So first would look is that sleep window ride? Can we shift a little bit and then I would look at general lifestyle so yes, what's the diet when do they eat particularly the evening meal you want to leave at least sort of three hours between end of meal and going to bed what's going on their movement light exposure so light exposure is hugely important for asleep but for our well being overall and the light exposure you want in the morning and during the day but then you want less of that in the evening. So we'd look okay, what's happening from a life perspective in the hours before we go to bed. And then also looking what's going on in the daytime, right? We talked about stress levels, uncertainty, what's happening there because all of these things independently or they influencing each other can impact on sleep

and do anything about the temperature of the room, or exercising late at night or napping during the day? Do you think any of those things negatively affect sleep?

They can. And people will be, again differ in their sensitivity. But we do know that temperature in this particular topic wet and summertime can have a negative impact. So we say keep the bedroom sort of around 18 degrees. So we don't want to too warm. Because if it's too warm, we know that will, you know make it harder for us to fall asleep. And that simply is because our body temperature drops in the evening over the course of the night. And in order to drop, the body needs to release heat. And it needs a cooler environment. If the environment is too warm, no warmth can be released from the body to the environment, you're stuck with that warmth, you struggle to fall asleep. So certainly that's something to look at exercise data saying different things. Some say You know, it's fine to exercise before bed. Others don't, I always think let's stay on the side of caution. And give yourself maybe two hours between end of exercise and going to sleep, I would also probably avoid high intensity exercise. And if not avoid again, you know what I said about running experiment, run an experiment and see does high intensity exercise in the evening have a negative impact on me falling asleep, staying asleep or how I feel the next day because remember, you might have disrupted sleep, but it's not disrupted to the point that you fully wake up? And

when you say sort of keep a diary or do an experiment? Do you think just as simple just jotting down a kind of sleep diary is the best way to do that.

Yeah, you could, let's not get sort of too pressurized and that it needs to be absolutely perfect. But yeah, just keeping a journal, when did I go to bed? Roughly? How long did it take me to fall asleep? Or you just say it was easy or not easy? You know, see what feels best for you saying when you wake up? And then sort of just checking how did I feel during the day? What was my mood? Like? What was my alertness like? And then what what did I do? And what did I eat? Or when did I eat? Right? Just sort of keeping track a little bit of that just become a bit more familiar with the things you do how you feel your day. But I think really keeping it simple and bringing an element of curiosity and playfulness.

And on that note, if you do turn your mind to it and put some tools in place, how likely is it that you can overcome sleep problems?

That's a really difficult question. Because overcoming is a big word in my view. And I say that because sleep problems are part of normal sleep. So that's why early on ideal sleep perfect sleep. What is that? Right? Anything could disrupt our sleep you mentioned you have children, so you could be sleeping fine. And your children come in and they disrupt your sleep or you know is outside or you have an illness. You know, that's all part of normal sleep, what I make of it, what my mind makes of that disruption. That's a different different question. And I think what we can absolutely learn is to treat a poor night for what it is or maybe a run of poor nights for what it is. Yep. Right now. This and this is going on in my life yet this is happening and impact on my sleep. That's normal. It's not nice. I'm not saying it's nice. I'm not saying it's okay. Just saying it is normal. Cat.

This has been so interesting. I've really learned a lot. Thank you so much. Pleasure. Pleasure.

And where can people find you online? Your advice? Do you have a website socials?

Yes, the website is probably the best doctor cat sleep.com. I'm also Yeah, on socials on Instagram. But I think the website is probably the best because I've have a blog. So you can sort of get some help through that. And if not just drop me a line and we can arrange a call

Dr. cat with a que tu Yes, thank you very much. Thank

you so much. Thank you. Well, up next we'll be turning to bedroom furnishings to see whether the right pillow could be the key to better sleep after this.

In case you didn't know, we do actually answer questions that are sent in by our listeners and get answers. And our next episode is on smartphones. So if you've got any questions about mobile signal, different mobile providers or smartphone features, send us an email at podcasts@which.co.uk and it could be featured in the episode.

Now gross. What we didn't talk to Kat about was mattresses, pillows, the actual stuff you're sleeping on and in. Do you have a preference on those?

Yeah, I guess I like I like this reasonably firm mattress. But to be honest, I've been in hotels before where it's been a really saggy soft mattress and it doesn't affect me too much. I think I'm quite lucky in that sense. What about you?

Yeah, I have got a pretty nice mattress. I bought a fancy pillow and then realize that I sleep on my arm. So my pillow is almost useless. I need it. I need a softer arm basically. Well to get a bit of a definitive answer on pillows and mattresses. I spoke to Chris Brooks from the which product testing team he actually tests the pillows To find out what we should be looking for. Chris, thank you for joining. You've just finished pillow testing that is coming out soon. Is

that right? Yes, in the next few weeks, we'll be having a new set of results coming out.

And what exactly does that involve? For you, that seems like a bit of a cushy job,

but of lying down on the job? Well, it's not just me that gets involved in the pillow testing, we have a panel of approximately 30 to 40 people who come and give their opinions on the pillows that we're testing. So we line up about 10. In each batch, each individual person will come on and try the pillows out one by one, and give a rating on each pillow. So they'll test them for comfort on their side, their back and their front. Apparently, people sleep on their front. I mean, I don't know too many of them. But they do with something like pillows, you definitely need to get broad range of opinions. And you definitely need to get people actually physically trying out the pillows themselves. And we found this the best way to identify which ones people are popular with a range of different people,

and a bit of a tease of the results. But was it a very clear you pay more? It's the favorite pillow? Or were there some surprising answers.

So in terms of paying more, you definitely seem to get the longer lasting pillows for example, the the memory foam pillows or the feather and down pillows which are expected to last longer than your typical synthetic pillows that you might find in a supermarket typically, which are very widely available, but potentially have the downside of not lasting as long. So it might not be quite as simple as paying more for a better quality of pillow. But you tend to be able to get a pillow that will last you a little bit longer.

And when you say lasts longer is that it falls apart or is it more a kind of it ends up being like a flat slab of cheese.

Well, this is the problem that can happen with some synthetic pillows, particularly after they're washed. And a lot of the filling can kind of congeal in one place. And people find they're not, they're not offered that sort of same smooth feeling anymore. Whereas the memory foam and the feather and down pillows tend to be easier to clean and they tend to retain their shape for a little bit longer as well. That's

really good to know. And are there particular types of pillow feather and down versus, you know, synthetic or firm that is soft, that are good for different styles of sleeper. While they

pillow market is huge. And it could have so many different subsections. But there's three broad areas and one is the feather and down pillows which tend to be softer, they can mold to fit your neck a little bit better. And they're better for people who don't like that firm feel of a pillow. Then we have the microfiber pillows which are often often filled with polyester. And these are the typical cheaper pillows that you'll often find in supermarkets. They're useful in that they can be washed at home. And they're available in a range of different softness options from soft to firm. But the problem with them is that they often have, as I said, a shorter lifespan and potentially not as breathable as well. And then we have the memory foam pillows which tend to offer more support and can even be adjustable as well. They sometimes have layers of memory foam, or even individual pieces that can be added and removed. The issue with those ones is that they can retain more heat in the summer. And they're not suitable for some people who don't like that denser sort of firmer feeling a pillow.

I mean, I have some fairly pathetic allergies. And so I think some of that can come from the pillow particularly if it's been living in my parents house for years and years. And then it's just like a horrible mass of dust mites and their and their poop are their pillows that are better for me and I should be seeking out. So

we do have pillows that are specifically labeled as hypoallergenic. And what this means is that the actual material and filling of the pillow isn't made from a known potential allergens such as feathers will or latex or common allergens. But other allergens such as dust mites can still develop on these types of pillows that may cause an issue for people with allergies. There are also anti allergy pillows, which means that the filling and the casing have been treated to resist and combat the development of dust mites. So you may find that this type of pillow is good for you if you suffer from something like asthma or eczema, which can be exacerbated by allergens. So

that makes sense. So hypo is just the pillow itself isn't going to necessarily give you allergies on day one, whereas anti over time, it should be resisting the things that can cause someone to get a little bit sniffling.

Yeah, that's right.

Well then moving on to mattresses, which compared to pillows, pillows, you might be talking as you're saying over 100 pounds, but a mattress I mean, those can go for 1000s Without getting into real luxury territory, when which tests those what kind of price range are we looking at there?

So we have Best Buy mattresses actually under 200 pounds and ranging all the way up to over 2000 pounds. So that gives you an idea of the scale that we're actually testing.

I mean, it is a huge industry, not so much in The UK but in America, there is this meme of like mattress stores in every corner and there'll be two in the same kind of shopping center. Thankfully, we don't have too much of that we do have a lot of kind of online mattress retailers, direct consumers, I guess it's a big industry. And it's an important decision to make. Because, I mean, how long are you going to be keeping one of these mattresses once you've bought one? Well,

we'd recommend replacing a mattress when it's between eight to 10 years old. But if your mattress is starting to sag, soften or become less supportive, and it's a good time to start looking for a new one, or potentially investing in a mattress topper,

so give us an overview then loads of jargon in this world of mattresses. Quite an overwhelming decision, give us the lay of the land.

So we at which we've tested all the different types of mattresses including springs, pocket spring mattresses, memory foam and hybrid mattresses. When we're talking about pocket sprung mattresses we're talking about each individual spring of that mattress is covered in an individual fabric pocket, which are often more breathable and feel cool to lie on when you get into bed, which are great if you tend to sweat or overheat. The issue with those ones is they can be a little bit more bouncy. So difficult if you're perhaps sleeping with a partner who's often tossing and turning in bed. We also have the foam and memory foam mattresses which can help to relieve pressure in different ways. Some people like the feeling of these but some people find that the memory effects can be a little bit too warm for them to lie on. That we have found some that are not as bad in in terms of they're a little bit cooler. And then we also have the hybrid mattresses which offer kind of the best of both worlds, which type you choose will come down to what your personal preferences are to sleep on. And

the mattress results. Those are on which Dakota UK right now. And they are for which members only is that right?

Yes. And we've got almost 300 reviews I believe up there and a wide range of Best Buys in all of the different mattress areas that we've discussed already. And

I think it's just one of those things you got to get right. Thanks so much Chris. And if you want to find that list of the very best mattresses and a deep dive into how we test everything, head to the witch website, take out a subscription. And we actually have a Best Buy mattress that cost just 159 pounds, so you could save yourself a whole lot of dots

here. And on the subject of sleep products. We also test earplugs, sleep masks, sleep trackers and noise cancelling headphones. And we have brand new duvet reviews going live in the next few weeks. So we'll pop a link to the signup page in the description for today's show.

Next time on get answers. Were helping you get more out of something we all use far more than we'd like to admit our mobile phones. So do get in touch with your questions email us at podcast at which to cote UK and say hello on social media where at which UK on all the main channels

and we'd love it if you could leave us a rating and a review. It's a really effective way to show support for our podcasts as it helps us get recommended to new listeners. Today's get answers was presented by me grace Burrell, alongside Harry kind produced by Rob Lily Jones and Adrian Bradley, recorded by Adrian and edited by Eric Breyer. And thanks again to our wonderful guests Dr. Cat leader and Chris Brooks. We'll see you next time bye. Bye bye