Shownotes
There is much to be said about telling the truth and being able to share that truth with others. However, what if you weren't able to learn the truth until someone exposed you to it? What would it take for it to set you completely free? Today's riveting interview with a former member of the Church of Scientology, Katherine Spallino, will leave you speechless with the number of different atrocities that are committed and are not well-known to the public. With this first-hand account, Katherine explains not only what it has meant to go through this experience, but it really means to continue to explore the truth, even when it is not easy to see and attempts are made to show it differently than what appears. We all have the capability to seek out the support that is needed, but it takes a special kind of persistence to be able to explore and recognize what we can accomplish with that truth in hand.
Guest Bio
Katherine grew up on a secluded ranch within the Cadet organization, the Church of Scientology’s Sea Org school for children. At a young age, Katherine began to journal about her day-to-day life, capturing the thoughts and experiences of a child coming of age in a cult. Katherine’s background offers the rare opportunity to tell the story of the hundreds of children who rarely saw their parents and were indoctrinated to become future Sea Org members. Katherine is no longer a Scientologist and lives in Minneapolis with her husband, happily raising three rambunctious boys.
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Intro/Outro By: Michael Dugan, Podcast Host: Voice4Chefs
Transcripts
Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and
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determination all converge into
an amazing, heartfelt experience.
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This is Speaking From The Heart.
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Joshua: Welcome back to episode number 86
of Speaking from the Heart, and today's
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episode is something that I would have
never thought that I would have on the
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show, but after realizing the personal
and professional aspects of this story
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that we're about to hear from my guest,
I think that it makes perfect sense as to
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why we're sharing it today that nothing
is impossible to overcome, let alone
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your own dreams, your own aspirations,
even the things that might have been
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told to us at one point or another, but
then it's time to overcome and become
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something that we never thought possible.
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Today, we have Katherine Spallino
with us, and Katherine grew up on
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a secluded ranch within the cadet
organization, which is the Church of
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Scientology's Sea Org School for Children.
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At a young age, Katherine began to
journal about her day to day life,
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capturing the thoughts and experiences
of a child coming of age in a cult.
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Katherine's background offers the rare
opportunity to tell the story of the
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hundreds of children who rarely saw
their parents and were indoctrinated
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to become future Sea Org members.
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Katherine is no longer a Scientologist,
but lives in Minneapolis with her husband,
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happily raising three ranbuctious boys.
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I will tell you!
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This is not one of these episodes
that I'm going to stand and let it
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be told what you should be thinking.
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I'll let you make your own conclusions
about what you hear from today's story
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and about how Katherine has overcome,
really, not just the impossible, but
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also understanding that sometimes we
might be fed things that are not healthy
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whatsoever, and what you might think about
the Church of Scientology or not, is not
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what my goal is on this episode today.
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What I do say is that you have to make
your own understanding of what you
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have as your own opinions and your own
fascinations about this type of subject,
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but I will say, if the evidence doesn't
clearly say to you in this first person
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account today of what you should think
about the Church of Scientology, let
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alone other organizations that make
you feel a little cultish, I think
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it's time then to maybe re-examine
what your personal/professional
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opportunities are in your life.
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But with that, let's go to the episode
and let you make your own conclusion.
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All right we have
Katherine Spallino with us.
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Katherine, thanks for sharing
your heart with us today.
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Katherine: I'm glad to be here.
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Thanks for having me.
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Joshua: I appreciate you being
here, and I have to thank publicly
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the Need a Guest Facebook group.
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We connected through there
when I was advertising my show,
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looking for guests, and, wow!
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Your impact on me when I saw what
you've been through is something of
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quite significance, so, Katherine, I've
already let the audience know a little
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bit about your background, and I really
just want to start off with a level
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playing field for everybody and hearing
it from you, I think is really important.
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A lot of what we're going to talk
about today is really your experiences
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with the Church of Scientology.
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I was wondering if you could just
give us a level playing field so that
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we all understand, including myself,
of what the church of Scientology
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is, specifically what you were
involved with for a period of time.
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Katherine: Sure.
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I'm happy to dive in.
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It's a very big topic, but I
will just start from my point of
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view, which is I was born into
the Sea Org, quite literally.
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My mother gave birth to me, in a large
building in Hollywood at the stars
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were beneath me and I was born as
a baby; a sea org baby it's called,
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because in the Sea Org, you are
working for the church of Scientology.
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You don't go to church.
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It's like being a priest, but not
a priest, and it's a Sea Org member
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and they dedicate a billion years of
their lives, which is like, "what?",
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but that was normal to me growing up.
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I thought, "Okay, my
parents are in the Sea Org.
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I'm going to be in the Sea Org.
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This is what I was told was my
purpose.", and I think by like the
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time I was 10, I'd already signed the
billion year contract several times.
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It was like normal.
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I also did not live with my parents.
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I was in a dorm by the age of
six and that was in Los Angeles.
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My parents lived in the same building,
just not with me, and then by the
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age of eight, I was sent away to
a boarding school in the hills.
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It's like the mountains above Santa
Clarita called the Canyon Oaks Ranch,
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and it was called the Pack Ranch
Cadet Org, and its sole purpose was
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for these children to become future
Sea Org members in Scientology.
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All of our parents were in the Sea Org.
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We rarely saw them, and we all were
operating us like a miniature Sea Org,
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so we all had posts, which were jobs,
and we would work out in the hills and
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like de-weed or take care of the horses
and renovate the classrooms, and be doing
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jobs that adults would be doing, but we
were like eight, nine, 10, so I was there
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until I was about 14 years old, and then
I was told it's time to join the Sea Org.
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Joshua: Wow.
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Katherine: So the Sea Org-
yeah, it's kind of a lot.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Katherine: Yes, and all this
time I believe in Scientology.
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Scientology, to me, L.
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Ron Hubbard, is the person
who invented it in the 1950s.
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I've been going to his L.
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Ron Hubbard Life Exhibition that's
in Hollywood and seeing about
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all the amazing work he's done.
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He has all of these steps laid out.
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This is what Scientology is called the
bridge and if people do these steps they
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become enlightened and better people.
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They go "clear" it's called so when my
what to me my parents are saving the
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world, because they're helping people
go clear is what they would say, and I
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believed in that and if I joined the Sea
Org, I would also help people go clear and
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by doing whatever job I was assigned to.
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That was my growing up process, so not a
normal life to say the least, and it's not
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until later in my twenties when I began to
realize how much control Scientology had
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over me and my family, and not only that,
because they told my parents to no longer
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talk to me because they felt I was an
evil presence just to like really break it
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down really small that happened, and then
from there, I started to do some research
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and I realized how money hungry it is.
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You have to pay for all these
services, yet my parents are poor.
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I was poor in the Sea Org.
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All that money is just
going straight to the top.
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They're all treated inhumanely, and I
was lucky enough to leave when I was
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16 years old, so I wrote a book, The
Bad Cadet, capturing my life, what that
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life is like, because it's so hard for
me to just say that all in like a few
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paragraphs, so if anybody really wants
to get immersed in that world, I've
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written a book about that time of my
life called The Bad Cadet, because I did
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not do well as a cadet; the cadet work.
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Joshua: It almost sounds like to me you
were doing free work and being in a child
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slave trade sort of thing, because of
all the things that- normally as a kid,
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we're like playing out in the street, or
playing with her friends, or playing video
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games, or doing something that is what
we are learning to grow in instead of you
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building houses and mowing grass, and it
sounds like these are things that normally
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children should never be involved in,
at least until a certain age where they
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kind of understand what responsibility
is and starting to grow with that.
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Why were they doing that?
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Do you have any perception of that,
even to this day, as to why they
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put people through that process?
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Katherine: They considered us to be adults
in small bodies, so when you go, "Oh.
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They believe in reincarnation these
little people have lived many lives.
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They are more capable than society treats
them, so they can do these jobs.", so
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at eight years old, I'm cooking in the
galley for the ranch, and I am standing
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on a stool because obviously I'm too
short, and I'm leaning over, rolling
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the hot dogs, and I fall on the grill
because obviously I'm way too young to
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be manhandling this large equipment.
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It's different if you're at eight at
home with your parents standing next
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to you and you're cooking together.
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I do that with my own child, but
there was one adult and then there's
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like 20 kids all making the food.
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Of course, accidents are going
to happen, but it's because we're
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considered adults in small bodies
and we actually did get paid.
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We have like a stipend.
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It wasn't a stipend; we actually got a
paycheck, and it said our government, like
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our name and then like fICA would be taken
out and going to the government, and it
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was just $15 a week, and then ironically
though, after a few weeks of me getting
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paid, I actually stopped getting paid
and I find out it's because I don't have
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a social security number, because when
my mom gave birth with the midwife, she
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never filed the paperwork, so now I really
am working for no money at all, and if
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nothing is done, like my other friends
are all still getting paid; that's just
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a random side story that happened to me-
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Joshua: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
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I have to stop you here, so-
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Katherine: Mm-hmm.
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Joshua: When you were born, you weren't
given a social security number so
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that you would have something like
savings and a social safety net that
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we have cherished in the United States?
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That's that's just
really confounding to me.
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Katherine: Mm-hmm.
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It was just a low priority.
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They had to go back to work to save
the world and do Scientology stuff.
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I was number four; the fourth child,
so on one hand, you would think they
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would know this already; that you need
to file paperwork, but on the other
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hand, maybe I was just forgotten, but
I have other cadet friends, and all
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of us have very strange things, like,
my one friend, Felicia, her name.
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She always thought it was with a Z,
and then she saw her birth certificate
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for the first time and it's with a C.
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Her whole life she was writing
felicia with a Z, but because our
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parents aren't there, it's like we
had to fill in these holes, and I
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thought my birthday was one day.
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I thought it was August 5th and it
turned out to be August 4th, like
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I have so many friends like that.
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A lot of misspellings of names, wrong
birthdays, because our parents just
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kind of shunted us off, and they
thought they were doing the right thing.
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They're like, "Oh, there'll be
taken care of by the church.", but
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it was like, "Who's nurturing us?
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Nobody."
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Joshua: Have you ever been
able to meet your parents and
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ask them why they did that?
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Have you ever had that conversation?
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Katherine: Yeah, so my mom and
dad, I would see them periodically.
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When I was older from like eight to
13, 14, every few months, and that
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conversation didn't really come up.
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I would ask them like, "Why
don't you know my birthday?"
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I did ask my mom that she's like, "Sorry!
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I went in labor at night, and
then like goes early morning."
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It's like, "OK fine.
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I'll give you that."
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When I was in my 20s and no longer a
Scientologist, but I still maintain
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the relationship with my mother,
I was like, "I'm just curious.
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Why did you send me to this ranch?"
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It's not usual.
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Normally parents hold
their children close.
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You'll go to boarding school
if you're like a problem child.
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You don't go to boarding school from
the time you're a eight year old just
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because they are trying to raise you
to be indoctrinated in a church, right?
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But my question to my mom was, I asked
her in a way that wasn't going to offend
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her because she's still a Scientologist,
"Why did you send me there?", and she
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said, " I felt like it was a safe space",
because she was poor from New York.
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I had it beforehand.
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She's Puerto Rican and she
was born in Puerto Rico, but
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her dad came over to New York.
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She didn't have a lot of money.
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She grew up around crime,
so she was like, "Oh.
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My daughter will be safe and she's
going to be raised in a religion
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I believe in and taken care of.
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Why would I not?", so to her, she was
doing something good for me, and I think
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in her mind, she probably thought she'd be
more involved in my life, but she wasn't.
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Joshua: Wow.
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I mean, it sounds like to me, almost,
that it was the circumstances that
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your parents, even your mom were
going through, thinking that they
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were going to be taking care of, well,
at least the children at least, but
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it was a completely different story.
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When was the moment you realized
that this was sort of the wrong thing
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that should be happening to kids?
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Was there any sort of self actualization
or self realization, and can you describe
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a little bit of that moment for our
audience as to what you felt and how you
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reacted to it, because I can imagine...
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Katherine, like, going through these
sort of experiences being told, "Yes.
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This is the way we do things.
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This is a way that you will learn.",
and then all of a sudden you find out
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the truth and it just radically shakes
you to the core, so can you tell us
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a little bit about that moment and
you have that realization that maybe
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this isn't the way things should be?
220
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Katherine: Yeah, so there's these
moments of clarity and I start
221
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journaling about my life because
I'm like, this is a weird life.
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I kind of wonder if I'll write
a book about this one day.
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I did have this reality of knowing that
this wasn't usual, but I still believed
224
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in Scientology and I was like, "I can
write it in a way that was good though.
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All the good stuff.",
because I have good friends.
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There are good parts to my life.
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It wasn't all bad, and at the time
when I was thinking of writing it, it
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wasn't going to be like an expose, and
it's still not, to be honest, so when
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I became an adult, I had something
happen to me that was so hurtful.
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My brother was getting sick.
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I brushed on this
briefly, but he was dying.
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He had a plastic anemia and they
needed a bone marrow transplant, but
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before that had happened, there's this
method in Scientology where if you're
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getting sick, it's because somebody is
suppressing you, it's what it's called.
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You can picture bad voodoo or something;
like that person is doing things
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to make you get sick, so the church
pulled me in out of the blue, called
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me, told me to show up to the church.
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I come in, and this woman sits me down and
she says, " There's a report written on
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you that you're making your brother sick,
and you can't talk to your family anymore.
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On top of that, your dad is not
doing well on his post; on his job.
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He's a supervisor on what's called the
OT levels.", and I'm just like, "Whoa!
242
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Like, what do you mean?
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Are you calling me evil?
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Are you saying I'm making them sick?
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That's crazy."
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She was like, "Yeah.
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Don't talk to them anymore
until you do your condition."
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They have something where you make
amends to get back with the group
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and I had done nothing wrong,
and that was so hurtful to me.
250
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My parents stopped talking to me; my
sister, who worked in the Sea Org, so
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I was very alone, but luckily, I had
met somebody; my boyfriend at the time.
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He was not a Scientologist, and
in Scientology, one thing that
253
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makes a cult a cult is they really
close you out from outsiders.
254
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You can't talk to people, outside
of your group especially, and
255
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say anything negative, because
you want them to join the group.
256
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On top of that, inside your own inner
circle of Scientologists, if you
257
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say something bad about Scientology,
you will get written up; so I would
258
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get reported on if I said this is
so unfair that they did this to me.
259
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I would get in more trouble and probably
declared a suppressive person, which
260
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means I would lose my family forever.
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It's such wild stuff that I'm
saying, but this is how it is.
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Joshua: My mouth has dropped
open, as you can tell
263
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-
Katherine: I know.
264
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I can see.
265
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Joshua: Because I'm like, "Wow."
266
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This is definitely of a cult
esque way of handling things.
267
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Sorry, I interrupted you.
268
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Go ahead.
269
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Katherine: No, it's okay.
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It's very shocking, and I know I'm
spitting this all out, so for the
271
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audience, at the end of our interview,
I'll talk about resources of where
272
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they can get more information,
including my book or other ways,
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but yeah, so my boyfriend at the
time, he's like, "Hey, listen.
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I grew up Christian.
275
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I am not going to be a Scientologist.
276
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Don't worry.
277
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You can talk to me.", and it was such
a sense of relief, "Oh, I can finally
278
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talk about what's going on", and so like
telling him, and hearing it out loud,
279
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and he's not judging me and making me
put up a wall, was the beginning of
280
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deprogramming myself, because there's
this moment of me hearing myself
281
00:15:07,035 --> 00:15:10,405
say that these people are telling my
family to no longer talk to me because
282
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I'm somehow making my brother sick.
283
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It was so ridiculous, but I still
remained a Scientologist for another year.
284
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I took my boyfriend at the time, he's
now my husband, but to what's called a
285
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Scientology event, which would be like
if you're going to church, but it's
286
00:15:23,675 --> 00:15:29,405
like, oh my gosh, it's like going to like
those huge evangelical big stadiums, and
287
00:15:29,405 --> 00:15:33,075
then it's like a guy on the stadium, and
everybody's cheering manically, and it
288
00:15:33,075 --> 00:15:36,415
was just like, "Oh my", like watching it
through his eyes, and they were trying
289
00:15:36,415 --> 00:15:38,415
to sell a new product, and I'm like, "L.
290
00:15:38,415 --> 00:15:41,115
Ron Hubbard has been dead for 30 years.
291
00:15:41,135 --> 00:15:44,435
How are you still putting out
products on him?", you know, and that
292
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everybody has to buy it, and as we're
walking out of this event, my friends
293
00:15:48,365 --> 00:15:50,585
that I grew up with are jumping in
front of me, "Cash or credit card?
294
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Cash or credit card?"
295
00:15:51,345 --> 00:15:56,135
It was so insane, and I was
just like, like these moments of
296
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clarity, and then I decided to go
on the Internet, and guess what?
297
00:16:00,475 --> 00:16:02,365
You don't go on the Internet
if you're a Scientologist.
298
00:16:02,405 --> 00:16:04,665
That's why they keep
Scientologists in there.
299
00:16:04,665 --> 00:16:06,765
They tell them everything
that you hear is a lie.
300
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We only know the truth, so for me to go
on the Internet was like a huge deal to
301
00:16:12,170 --> 00:16:17,820
research and find out for myself, and
so by the time I was about 21, 22, I was
302
00:16:17,870 --> 00:16:22,660
aware of exactly the harm that the church
does where I didn't know that they attack
303
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,460
people who talk badly about Scientology.
304
00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:28,300
I didn't know all these things because you
don't go on the Internet, which is wild.
305
00:16:29,795 --> 00:16:34,235
Joshua: First off, I want to tell you
how brave you are to be able to speak
306
00:16:34,265 --> 00:16:38,785
the truth in this, and, you know, there
might be people that are listening to
307
00:16:38,785 --> 00:16:42,565
this, like, "Katherine, you're telling
a bunch of lies and I don't believe what
308
00:16:42,565 --> 00:16:45,505
you're saying, because I don't think
Scientology is that way.", and I have
309
00:16:45,505 --> 00:16:50,115
always said on this show, and I'll say
it again, that I respect all viewpoints.
310
00:16:50,115 --> 00:16:52,815
I respect what everybody
has to contribute to this.
311
00:16:53,195 --> 00:16:57,705
Even if it's right, wrong, indifferent,
it opens the conversation about
312
00:16:57,905 --> 00:16:59,995
things that we can do to be better.
313
00:17:00,045 --> 00:17:02,045
That's what my business has been about.
314
00:17:02,275 --> 00:17:05,380
That's what I've been working
with potential clients, and even
315
00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:07,150
regular clients that I have, about.
316
00:17:07,450 --> 00:17:12,319
I think it's all important so that we can
continue to make progress because this is
317
00:17:12,329 --> 00:17:14,150
not progress from what you just told me.
318
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:15,569
It is indoctrination.
319
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:19,369
It is essentially brainwashing,
which I've even used that term
320
00:17:19,369 --> 00:17:21,450
before we started this interview.
321
00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:25,980
I feel that it is something that is
scary in itself because you don't
322
00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:29,370
really get the opportunity to really
explore what's out there in the bigger
323
00:17:29,370 --> 00:17:33,320
world, and there's something that
you said earlier that I really just
324
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want to hone in on a little bit it.
325
00:17:35,620 --> 00:17:40,540
You kind of touched upon the fact that
the group essentially disciplined you or
326
00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:46,650
created some sort of issues as it related
to the situations that you went through
327
00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:48,390
that might have been negative in nature.
328
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:53,265
Can you talk about that a little bit
as to what that is and what you've been
329
00:17:53,265 --> 00:17:58,595
through, and why that was so important
for them to kind of create that negativity
330
00:17:58,595 --> 00:18:02,615
in the first place, because I think
that it's really concerning to me that
331
00:18:02,615 --> 00:18:03,815
they kind of put you through this.
332
00:18:04,535 --> 00:18:05,025
Katherine: Mm-hmm.
333
00:18:05,475 --> 00:18:08,225
Yeah, so I grew up- it's
wild to think about.
334
00:18:08,285 --> 00:18:12,325
This is happening at a young age when
I am 11 years old- it'll be captured in
335
00:18:12,325 --> 00:18:15,685
my book 12 years old, I read a note to
my boyfriend; I'm just going to give you
336
00:18:15,735 --> 00:18:17,835
like a low level of where this begins.
337
00:18:18,275 --> 00:18:20,675
I read a note to my boyfriend
saying, "Let's skip source."
338
00:18:20,715 --> 00:18:21,495
Source would be a L.
339
00:18:21,495 --> 00:18:25,885
Ron Hubbard lecture listening to it
like on a Audio and I was like, "Let's
340
00:18:25,885 --> 00:18:27,435
go and hang out over by the horses."
341
00:18:27,995 --> 00:18:30,175
He gets caught with the
note in the course room.
342
00:18:30,275 --> 00:18:31,955
They call it a course room
instead of a classroom.
343
00:18:32,445 --> 00:18:37,965
I get in trouble; not him, although I did
have the idea, but still, and then so they
344
00:18:38,025 --> 00:18:41,995
isolate me and they put me on the ECG and
no one's allowed to talk to me, so I'm on
345
00:18:41,995 --> 00:18:45,775
this group called the ethics correction
group that is meant to make me a better
346
00:18:45,775 --> 00:18:49,830
person and to better myself, and I'm
miserable, and now I'm doing hard labor
347
00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:51,890
all day and not going to school at all.
348
00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:55,600
This is something that's already been
happening when I'm like 11 years old,
349
00:18:55,870 --> 00:18:59,360
and what they're doing and what they
do with adults too is anytime you do
350
00:18:59,390 --> 00:19:03,350
anything that's slightly bad or that
they consider bad, they will isolate you
351
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:07,170
from the group, and then have you read
a lot of Scientology stuff to better
352
00:19:07,170 --> 00:19:10,880
yourself, so you blame it on yourself
and you think there's something wrong
353
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,860
with you instead of the people around
you, and then it's like a groupthink
354
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:18,660
here too, because they all look at you
like, "Oh, you're bad.", and then when it
355
00:19:18,670 --> 00:19:22,720
happens to them, everybody does the same
thing to them, and now they're isolated,
356
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,370
and they're fearful of that happening
to them, so everybody's writing reports
357
00:19:26,370 --> 00:19:27,860
on each other if they do something bad.
358
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:32,500
Spouses in the Sea Org will literally
write up their other spouse if they
359
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:34,220
feel like the spouse did something bad.
360
00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:36,690
Yes, it's 1984 if you read that book.
361
00:19:36,690 --> 00:19:39,770
Joshua: It sounds like
1984, the novel, for sure.
362
00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:41,330
Yes, absolutely.
363
00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:45,974
Katherine: And on top of it, there's
this thought regulation, so they do sec
364
00:19:46,024 --> 00:19:49,214
checks on Sea Org members when they're
like want to leave and go on vacation
365
00:19:49,454 --> 00:19:50,764
to make sure they're going to come back.
366
00:19:50,804 --> 00:19:54,734
They don't want to blow it's called and
they will have them confess everything
367
00:19:54,734 --> 00:19:59,944
they've ever thought, and like people
will do like they don't- you're allowed
368
00:19:59,944 --> 00:20:04,044
to have negative thoughts, but yet in the
Sea Org you can't, and if you say anything
369
00:20:04,044 --> 00:20:06,964
negative, like, "Well, I thought about it
would be nice to be with my grandkids."
370
00:20:07,384 --> 00:20:08,824
They're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa.
371
00:20:08,874 --> 00:20:09,914
That's way off purpose.
372
00:20:09,974 --> 00:20:11,454
You can't go on this vacation.
373
00:20:11,724 --> 00:20:13,254
We need to get you sorted out first."
374
00:20:13,614 --> 00:20:16,744
That's the type of control
they have on these people,
375
00:20:17,054 --> 00:20:18,274
and it's worse in the Sea Org.
376
00:20:18,274 --> 00:20:21,344
If you're just a Scientologist,
it's also really bad, but if you're
377
00:20:21,344 --> 00:20:22,984
in a Sea Org, you are captured.
378
00:20:22,984 --> 00:20:26,584
You are insulated in that world, and my
parents have been in it for 40 years.
379
00:20:26,914 --> 00:20:28,204
They have no money.
380
00:20:28,774 --> 00:20:30,224
They are in their 70s now.
381
00:20:30,224 --> 00:20:33,314
I'm now hearing online, there's
like reports coming out of elderly
382
00:20:33,314 --> 00:20:34,874
abuse, so I'm trying to figure out.
383
00:20:35,349 --> 00:20:36,509
They don't even talk to me anymore.
384
00:20:36,509 --> 00:20:37,489
I have no way of reaching them.
385
00:20:37,489 --> 00:20:38,409
They don't have a phone.
386
00:20:38,919 --> 00:20:39,659
It's wild.
387
00:20:39,709 --> 00:20:40,889
It's not even a church.
388
00:20:40,889 --> 00:20:44,329
You can call it a cult of Scientology
is getting away with all of this.
389
00:20:45,569 --> 00:20:47,809
Joshua: It's the year 2024, okay?
390
00:20:48,129 --> 00:20:54,119
We're in the world now of technology
and having all these opportunities
391
00:20:54,139 --> 00:20:57,939
to engage with other people
from halfway across the world.
392
00:20:58,199 --> 00:21:02,039
We have these systems that built in
place, but it sounds like the church of
393
00:21:02,089 --> 00:21:04,969
Scientology is living back in the 1800s.
394
00:21:05,619 --> 00:21:09,069
Katherine: Yeah, and it's amazing that
the amount of control they have on
395
00:21:09,069 --> 00:21:12,319
the Sea Org members and Scientologists
who are living in the regular world,
396
00:21:12,589 --> 00:21:14,949
around with other people will not.
397
00:21:14,959 --> 00:21:19,119
They will see a newspaper article that
says "Dan Matheson: convicted for rape.
398
00:21:19,149 --> 00:21:23,879
Scientology has had a hand in covering up
the woman", or telling them not to report
399
00:21:23,879 --> 00:21:25,259
the rape and they will be like, "Lies."
400
00:21:25,659 --> 00:21:26,749
and not even look at it.
401
00:21:26,899 --> 00:21:28,549
That's how well trained they are.
402
00:21:29,349 --> 00:21:34,939
It takes a lot for somebody to wake up
from Scientology, or to come out of it.
403
00:21:35,569 --> 00:21:37,419
Unfortunately, that's what cults do.
404
00:21:38,249 --> 00:21:43,289
Joshua: Yeah, that is exactly what they
do, and even some of the cults that
405
00:21:43,289 --> 00:21:47,469
we all have heard in the seventies and
eighties, some of them that are not
406
00:21:47,469 --> 00:21:50,589
coming to mind right away, but there
were some that were even broken up by
407
00:21:50,589 --> 00:21:53,619
the FBI and others that will bring-
408
00:21:53,619 --> 00:21:54,559
Katherine: The Jonestown and stuff.
409
00:21:54,589 --> 00:21:56,399
Joshua: Yes, that's exactly
what I was thinking of.
410
00:21:56,439 --> 00:21:57,079
Thank you for putting that in.
411
00:21:57,079 --> 00:21:59,189
Katherine: Oh I have been
doing lots of cult studying.
412
00:21:59,669 --> 00:22:00,069
Joshua: Yeah.
413
00:22:00,249 --> 00:22:04,809
It's so fascinating to me that even to
this day and age that there's still those
414
00:22:04,809 --> 00:22:08,744
sort of techniques that are happening and
that creates some of these opportunities
415
00:22:08,744 --> 00:22:12,234
that don't really happen, because
they don't really give the people that
416
00:22:12,244 --> 00:22:15,634
should have every right and opportunity,
especially United States of America,
417
00:22:15,634 --> 00:22:20,504
although I have a international audience
that listens to this, to be able to have
418
00:22:20,514 --> 00:22:22,384
these opportunities that they can have.
419
00:22:22,394 --> 00:22:23,734
It's just crazy to me to hear this.
420
00:22:24,084 --> 00:22:26,104
You touched on something that
I really am curious about.
421
00:22:26,104 --> 00:22:27,444
I know my audience will too.
422
00:22:28,344 --> 00:22:29,854
How did you get to the other side?
423
00:22:29,854 --> 00:22:31,234
I mean, you referenced your husband.
424
00:22:31,314 --> 00:22:35,834
Thank God for your husband to
be like, "Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!
425
00:22:35,834 --> 00:22:40,784
Let's hold the horses here for a second",
but there had to be some grieving and
426
00:22:40,814 --> 00:22:45,574
some healing with that, so what have
you done to kind of get to that space to
427
00:22:45,574 --> 00:22:47,774
especially articulate and talk about it?
428
00:22:47,774 --> 00:22:51,159
I mean, I'm shocked just sitting
here listening to all of this
429
00:22:51,159 --> 00:22:53,952
because I've mentioned this to
other guests I've had on the show.
430
00:22:54,232 --> 00:22:57,092
Usually when we go through trauma
or things that are significant
431
00:22:57,092 --> 00:22:59,622
in nature, especially at a young
age like you have been through,
432
00:22:59,932 --> 00:23:01,642
we can't really process that.
433
00:23:01,642 --> 00:23:05,162
It takes a while for us to get over
that, so can you walk us through what
434
00:23:05,162 --> 00:23:09,032
you've done to get to that other side to
be able to eloquently talk about that?
435
00:23:09,052 --> 00:23:09,762
I'm very impressed.
436
00:23:10,717 --> 00:23:11,297
Katherine: Thank you.
437
00:23:11,587 --> 00:23:15,117
I think what helped for me was that
there was a level of myself when
438
00:23:15,117 --> 00:23:17,507
I was young going, "This is weird.
439
00:23:17,677 --> 00:23:21,167
This is different.", so I don't
think I was ever fully bought in.
440
00:23:21,177 --> 00:23:26,067
I was never a gung ho person who was
like, "Well I believe in Scientology
441
00:23:26,067 --> 00:23:27,287
for sure", and I believed in L.
442
00:23:27,287 --> 00:23:31,937
Ron Hubbard, but if you read my book,
you're going to catch me going through
443
00:23:31,967 --> 00:23:34,197
these thoughts of like, "This isn't okay.
444
00:23:34,197 --> 00:23:36,887
I don't like this.", where I
don't just accept everything,
445
00:23:37,087 --> 00:23:38,407
this is all okay for me, you know.
446
00:23:38,727 --> 00:23:43,707
To process the trauma of not being raised
by my parents, not being nurtured, being
447
00:23:43,717 --> 00:23:47,527
screamed at a lot because it was very a
military like school, writing about it.
448
00:23:47,527 --> 00:23:48,587
It helped a lot.
449
00:23:48,637 --> 00:23:51,327
In my twenties is when I put
down all my journal thoughts.
450
00:23:52,157 --> 00:23:55,727
It was just a mess of thoughts and
emotions, and then I got nightmares.
451
00:23:55,727 --> 00:24:00,107
I processed it in my dreams a lot, and
that was a for a few years, but that
452
00:24:00,107 --> 00:24:04,227
helped, I think, to get it all out there,
and then once I decided to actually turn
453
00:24:04,227 --> 00:24:09,097
it into a book, going through it again and
again and again, I wrote so many drafts
454
00:24:09,187 --> 00:24:12,987
and editing, and then talking about it
with my husband, talking about it with my
455
00:24:12,987 --> 00:24:15,107
best friend who helped me edit it as well.
456
00:24:15,687 --> 00:24:19,227
That really, I think, was almost
a form of processing and having
457
00:24:19,277 --> 00:24:22,637
almost like a therapist, but to
myself, but when I had children,
458
00:24:22,637 --> 00:24:26,767
I had to do something else because
it's different when I had children.
459
00:24:26,767 --> 00:24:31,497
Then I really became aware of what my
parents gave up, and I have three kids and
460
00:24:31,497 --> 00:24:35,637
when my parents, again, they did it two
times, they decided to stop talking to me.
461
00:24:35,637 --> 00:24:39,527
This is before my book came out, because
my best friend was on Leah Remini's
462
00:24:39,567 --> 00:24:44,567
Aftermath show, they felt because I knew
that they can no longer be connected
463
00:24:44,567 --> 00:24:48,827
to me, and it was very sad, and I had
twin babies and a three year old, and
464
00:24:48,827 --> 00:24:50,527
it was Minneapolis and it was winter.
465
00:24:50,667 --> 00:24:52,357
It was all these things; double whammy.
466
00:24:52,637 --> 00:24:52,997
Joshua: Yeah.
467
00:24:52,997 --> 00:24:55,237
Katherine: So I think I had
like low level depression.
468
00:24:55,277 --> 00:24:56,387
I was definitely not myself.
469
00:24:56,387 --> 00:25:00,877
I was irritable, not feeling my best,
and I'm an upbeat person, and I wasn't
470
00:25:00,917 --> 00:25:06,317
upbeat, so I got a therapist, and she
was somebody I could just talk to about
471
00:25:06,317 --> 00:25:10,417
everything and process it, and now I just
check in with her every six months or
472
00:25:10,417 --> 00:25:14,387
so, especially with raising my children
when they hit these developmental stages,
473
00:25:14,547 --> 00:25:19,027
especially when they're being very hard
to work with, like if they're dealing
474
00:25:19,027 --> 00:25:20,497
with a lot of emotions, I'm like, "Okay.
475
00:25:20,497 --> 00:25:24,907
What's the best way to help a child who's
going through this?", so I get help in
476
00:25:24,912 --> 00:25:30,332
that regard because I didn't have any
modeling family of how to raise children,
477
00:25:30,337 --> 00:25:33,847
and overall, I think I do a great job
with my children, but it's nice to have
478
00:25:33,847 --> 00:25:38,657
somebody who's a professional, just
give advice and tell me this is normal.
479
00:25:38,657 --> 00:25:41,417
This is how they react like
this because of this, and here's
480
00:25:41,417 --> 00:25:43,882
some tips and tricks and so on.
481
00:25:44,542 --> 00:25:47,757
Joshua: I've had guests on the show
that we've talked about fatherlessness
482
00:25:47,917 --> 00:25:52,877
and really the importance of having a
role model, like a father figure, even
483
00:25:52,877 --> 00:25:56,787
mothers for that matter, so I completely
understand where you're coming from,
484
00:25:56,787 --> 00:26:01,427
because for you, you don't really have
that basis, so having that ability
485
00:26:01,427 --> 00:26:05,117
to bounce it off of somebody that's
qualified, especially a therapist,
486
00:26:05,117 --> 00:26:08,997
which claimed the fame for myself, I'm
approaching my fourth year anniversary
487
00:26:08,997 --> 00:26:12,067
of seeing a therapist and still working
through many of the things that I've been
488
00:26:12,067 --> 00:26:17,027
through in my life, Katherine, and I can
always say that it's always good to have
489
00:26:17,027 --> 00:26:22,407
that ability to talk about it, speak
about it, have that connection so that you
490
00:26:22,407 --> 00:26:24,357
feel like you're doing the right thing.
491
00:26:24,527 --> 00:26:26,457
You feel like you're making that progress.
492
00:26:26,927 --> 00:26:30,187
In the last few minutes, I want to talk
about your book, which we've already
493
00:26:30,187 --> 00:26:33,607
alluded to a few times, but just to
put it out there for the listeners,
494
00:26:33,607 --> 00:26:36,157
I'll have it in the episode notes
in case you want to check it out.
495
00:26:36,437 --> 00:26:38,987
It's called The Bad Cadet:
Growing Up In The Church of
496
00:26:39,037 --> 00:26:41,017
Scientology Sea Organization.
497
00:26:41,587 --> 00:26:46,117
I'm imagining, Katherine, that not only
do you talk about your experiences going
498
00:26:46,117 --> 00:26:50,337
through this process, which you've already
shared, but, when you were writing the
499
00:26:50,337 --> 00:26:54,342
book, did it trigger you a little bit,
because you were even just talking about
500
00:26:54,352 --> 00:26:58,812
in the last part here about just feeling
a little bit of depression, anxiety, kind
501
00:26:58,812 --> 00:27:00,742
of having flashbacks of those things.
502
00:27:01,112 --> 00:27:05,182
Does it still impact you to this day,
even as you talk about the book, and
503
00:27:05,182 --> 00:27:09,572
if so, what's your go to to alleviate
that, because I can imagine that
504
00:27:09,572 --> 00:27:13,592
you're still processing some of those
things, but I mean, like I said, you're
505
00:27:13,592 --> 00:27:19,192
handling it so well, but yet the book
is really a view for everybody else to
506
00:27:19,282 --> 00:27:23,347
see what you've been through so that
nobody has to go through something like
507
00:27:23,347 --> 00:27:26,647
that, although it still exists, the
church of Scientology for that matter.
508
00:27:27,227 --> 00:27:27,707
Katherine: Mm-hmm.
509
00:27:28,417 --> 00:27:33,717
I feel that because of all that writing
I did, I overall am doing so well.
510
00:27:33,727 --> 00:27:37,817
The interesting part was, I was going
to have my book come out anonymously
511
00:27:38,287 --> 00:27:43,472
and not have my name on it at all out
of fear, and there is something that
512
00:27:43,502 --> 00:27:46,942
people probably know about at this
point is that Scientology is very
513
00:27:46,962 --> 00:27:48,922
aggressive if you speak out on them.
514
00:27:49,112 --> 00:27:51,332
Online, they will flood you with trolls.
515
00:27:51,722 --> 00:27:53,902
They will even paper your neighborhood.
516
00:27:54,142 --> 00:27:54,932
They will send P.
517
00:27:54,932 --> 00:27:55,942
I.'s after you.
518
00:27:56,302 --> 00:27:59,262
I was also worried about losing my
parents, but then they took my parents
519
00:27:59,262 --> 00:28:01,782
anyways, but then I was like, "Okay.
520
00:28:01,812 --> 00:28:02,702
I'm going to do this."
521
00:28:03,012 --> 00:28:04,402
I decided to write the book.
522
00:28:04,992 --> 00:28:08,902
What I'm dealing with now, anxiety
wise, it was very scary, but actually,
523
00:28:08,902 --> 00:28:12,652
it was very freeing to just put my
name out there, because now I'm not
524
00:28:12,652 --> 00:28:16,262
living a lie, because I had friends
who are still in Scientology, who
525
00:28:16,262 --> 00:28:18,979
are, like, talking about their wins
in Scientology, and I'm like, "Oh.
526
00:28:18,979 --> 00:28:22,559
I have to act like I agree with what
they're going through", and so just to be
527
00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:26,909
truthful and be like this is my story, and
the funniest part too, it's not funny, but
528
00:28:27,159 --> 00:28:29,279
my book is not an attack on Scientology.
529
00:28:29,299 --> 00:28:32,699
You would think it is with everything
I'm saying, but it's literally
530
00:28:32,719 --> 00:28:36,389
just me growing up in the church of
Scientology, and I have funny moments.
531
00:28:36,439 --> 00:28:37,669
I have like, "Oh.
532
00:28:37,899 --> 00:28:43,139
That guy's cute.", total teenage
coming of age, but it's just in the
533
00:28:43,139 --> 00:28:45,929
church of Scientology, and you really
get a picture, the full picture.
534
00:28:45,939 --> 00:28:48,649
It's not just going to be all
these bad things happen to me.
535
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:52,119
There's going to be joyful moments
too, and I felt like it was important
536
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:57,479
to capture the world of that time,
so circling back, how I feel.
537
00:28:57,509 --> 00:28:58,959
I feel proud and great.
538
00:28:58,959 --> 00:29:00,089
I don't have anxiety.
539
00:29:00,089 --> 00:29:02,589
Luckily, I was not attacked
by the Church of Scientology.
540
00:29:02,589 --> 00:29:05,049
I might be too small and in the pond.
541
00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:07,829
They have a lot of people attacking
them right now; speaking out, I
542
00:29:07,829 --> 00:29:11,049
wouldn't even call it attacking like
Leah Remini's show, Mike Rinder.
543
00:29:11,289 --> 00:29:12,379
There's a whole thing.
544
00:29:12,459 --> 00:29:15,294
This is what I was talking about;
any audience members are interested.
545
00:29:15,594 --> 00:29:19,744
SPTV on YouTube is huge right now,
and it's all these different people
546
00:29:19,744 --> 00:29:23,614
who are in the Sea Org, or just second
generation Scientologists, born into
547
00:29:23,614 --> 00:29:27,334
Scientology, talking about their
experiences, so there's all these
548
00:29:27,384 --> 00:29:31,114
mediums now to learn about Scientology,
and I think there's so many of us.
549
00:29:31,569 --> 00:29:35,489
There's comfort in numbers, so that
it was so coincidental that right
550
00:29:35,489 --> 00:29:39,529
when my book came out SPTV was
starting, so I have a security blanket.
551
00:29:39,539 --> 00:29:43,079
It's very nice, so, I don't know
if that helps answer any questions.
552
00:29:43,469 --> 00:29:48,979
Joshua: It does, and it actually creates a
support mechanism that I feel that there's
553
00:29:49,009 --> 00:29:54,509
these individuals that have gone through,
or still going through, what you have been
554
00:29:54,509 --> 00:29:59,229
through, and it's really fascinating to
me that this is the first time I've been
555
00:29:59,229 --> 00:30:01,239
exposed to this sort of conversation.
556
00:30:01,499 --> 00:30:06,199
I've heard of many different types of
churches, kind of indoctrinating people,
557
00:30:06,209 --> 00:30:10,759
but it's more of an individual basis and
not really a streamline because you hear
558
00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:16,399
about the Catholic Church and the abuse
scandals with that, but nothing to the
559
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:20,809
degree of what you've shared, and even
if it isn't an attack, I will say this.
560
00:30:21,249 --> 00:30:24,859
It's brave enough to just be able to
talk about it, like I mentioned earlier,
561
00:30:24,939 --> 00:30:30,164
because for some people, honesty and truth
sometimes is a really scary thing, and I
562
00:30:30,164 --> 00:30:33,774
know that from personal experience, and
I think I have some haters of this show
563
00:30:33,984 --> 00:30:37,414
that will listen to this and be like,
"Yeah, I hate you, Josh, and Speaking From
564
00:30:37,414 --> 00:30:41,444
The Heart because of who you represent",
and you can't people please everybody,
565
00:30:41,684 --> 00:30:45,564
but the thing is, is that you're living
that authentic life, and I love that so
566
00:30:45,564 --> 00:30:47,514
much, and that's what radiates from you.
567
00:30:47,917 --> 00:30:50,947
Katherine, before we close, I just
have this one quick question for you,
568
00:30:51,467 --> 00:30:54,567
and maybe you want to try to just
take it in a minute to answer this.
569
00:30:55,087 --> 00:30:59,447
What would you say to somebody that is
listening to this, they happen to fall
570
00:30:59,447 --> 00:31:04,517
across it, and they are going through some
of these experiences that you have lived.
571
00:31:04,917 --> 00:31:08,317
What would you say is one of
the things that they can do to
572
00:31:08,317 --> 00:31:10,447
help them get to the other side?
573
00:31:10,737 --> 00:31:16,207
In other words, how can they escape from
that sort of cultism, or that sort of
574
00:31:16,317 --> 00:31:19,957
abuse, that maybe they're going through
from such an organization like that?
575
00:31:20,157 --> 00:31:21,377
Is there any advice you would give them?
576
00:31:22,407 --> 00:31:25,187
Katherine: Yeah, I would say,
if you're already listening to
577
00:31:25,187 --> 00:31:27,977
things that are outside your norm,
you're already on the right track.
578
00:31:28,257 --> 00:31:30,917
If you're listening to things
that people have told you not to
579
00:31:30,917 --> 00:31:35,167
listen to, never let anyone monitor
where you get information from.
580
00:31:35,277 --> 00:31:39,107
That's what got me out was I finally
went and looked for myself to find
581
00:31:39,117 --> 00:31:43,467
the truth for myself, so, go listen
to whatever you want to, or go read
582
00:31:43,467 --> 00:31:47,157
or watch, and learn and educate
and find out what's true, what's
583
00:31:47,167 --> 00:31:51,287
actually true, and not what somebody
tells you to believe, or some group.
584
00:31:52,217 --> 00:31:55,067
Joshua: I love that because
the truth will set you free.
585
00:31:55,097 --> 00:31:58,437
That's literally what I was just
thinking about when you said that,
586
00:31:58,637 --> 00:32:01,757
and being able to surround yourself
with those positive thoughts and
587
00:32:02,077 --> 00:32:03,737
encouragements are definitely necessary.
588
00:32:04,367 --> 00:32:06,002
Katherine, you are an author.
589
00:32:06,112 --> 00:32:07,742
I would love to give you
the last few moments.
590
00:32:07,762 --> 00:32:09,252
How can people get your book?
591
00:32:09,522 --> 00:32:12,432
How can people access you if
they want to reach out to you,
592
00:32:12,452 --> 00:32:13,472
?Maybe have a conversation.
593
00:32:13,472 --> 00:32:16,172
Maybe they're going through
something quite similar to this?
594
00:32:16,182 --> 00:32:20,462
Maybe they want to have a one on one with
you to kind of give you their perspective
595
00:32:20,462 --> 00:32:22,062
and maybe you can give them some advice.
596
00:32:22,412 --> 00:32:24,262
I'm going to give you these
last few minutes to do that.
597
00:32:25,322 --> 00:32:25,622
Katherine: Thanks.
598
00:32:26,172 --> 00:32:30,272
Yeah, you could get my book on
Amazon for print and then ebook is
599
00:32:30,292 --> 00:32:34,132
everywhere, and then I'll have an
audible out in the next month or so.
600
00:32:34,452 --> 00:32:39,072
You can follow me @thebadcadet on
Twitter, Instagram, and I just started
601
00:32:39,072 --> 00:32:45,317
a Facebook page as well, and I do answer
to DMs, and I actually have pictures
602
00:32:45,327 --> 00:32:49,177
from my childhood on my bad cadet
page for Instagram, so if you're just
603
00:32:49,177 --> 00:32:53,487
curious and want to see some of the
visuals, that's there as well, and yeah,
604
00:32:53,547 --> 00:32:55,687
definitely reach out if anybody wants to.
605
00:32:55,687 --> 00:32:56,257
I'm open.
606
00:32:57,707 --> 00:33:01,947
Joshua: Not only have you been very open
with me and our audience about this- I
607
00:33:01,947 --> 00:33:05,187
mean, first off, I'm going to put all this
stuff in the episode notes so that they
608
00:33:05,187 --> 00:33:09,167
can access that, including your Instagram
and even the book too, if they want to buy
609
00:33:09,167 --> 00:33:13,052
it off at Amazon, but I have to tell you,
you're a very brave lady for doing this.
610
00:33:13,262 --> 00:33:17,992
I think that many people are afraid to be
able to open and express what they've been
611
00:33:17,992 --> 00:33:22,642
through because we live in this culture
where we shun other people speaking out,
612
00:33:22,902 --> 00:33:25,162
even if it is from a unique perspective.
613
00:33:25,457 --> 00:33:29,797
Like I said earlier, I appreciate all
the differences that come through on this
614
00:33:29,797 --> 00:33:34,297
show, and even on all the things that
I talk about, even myself, but I think
615
00:33:34,297 --> 00:33:38,407
he represents something that is truly
important, which is no matter what is
616
00:33:38,407 --> 00:33:42,677
going on, if you feel that something is
wrong, if it smells like something is
617
00:33:42,677 --> 00:33:48,427
wrong, there might be something wrong and
you should get an outside counsel and I
618
00:33:48,487 --> 00:33:52,247
really appreciate your husband kind of
pulled you out of that made you see the
619
00:33:52,252 --> 00:33:56,537
true opportunity that there is in life,
and I'm glad you've written about it and
620
00:33:56,537 --> 00:34:00,367
for all those reasons, Katherine, thanks
for sharing your heart with us today.
621
00:34:00,367 --> 00:34:02,257
Thank you for being on
Speaking From the Heart.
622
00:34:02,527 --> 00:34:06,937
It was really fascinating and
definitely a unique perspective story
623
00:34:07,177 --> 00:34:11,677
that I have loved to feature and I
appreciate you sharing it with us today.
624
00:34:12,687 --> 00:34:13,917
Katherine: Thank you
so much for having me.
625
00:34:13,917 --> 00:34:14,907
It was a pleasure.
626
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:19,370
Joshua: I really want to thank Katherine
for sharing and being vulnerable on
627
00:34:19,370 --> 00:34:24,389
this show about not only her experiences
being part of the Church of Scientology's
628
00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:29,880
Sea Org School for Children, but also
understanding that our viewpoints about
629
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,610
what we might believe in an organization
and what their effectiveness is, doesn't
630
00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:40,159
necessarily meet the qualifications
from time to time of being a very well
631
00:34:40,179 --> 00:34:45,110
known or very thought out process for
even organizations such as theirs to
632
00:34:45,110 --> 00:34:49,880
really do good work, because we might
lose our identity from time to time,
633
00:34:49,889 --> 00:34:54,429
especially when it comes to understanding
what we can create as not only those
634
00:34:54,429 --> 00:34:58,810
best versions of herself, which we have
continuously preached on this show,
635
00:34:59,420 --> 00:35:03,550
but I think it's really understanding
what our identity is in the long run.
636
00:35:05,390 --> 00:35:06,500
I don't know what to say.
637
00:35:07,540 --> 00:35:11,790
I really don't know, and I think that
even to this day I still think about
638
00:35:11,790 --> 00:35:16,350
the episode and even as I record this
which has been months later reflecting
639
00:35:16,350 --> 00:35:21,270
on the interview that we had, is
really a fascinating topic in itself,
640
00:35:21,950 --> 00:35:25,670
because I think there's a lot of
different angles we can go with this.
641
00:35:26,190 --> 00:35:27,850
We could talk about working as a kid.
642
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:32,195
Does it really help you to create
that opportunity if you work really
643
00:35:32,195 --> 00:35:35,975
hard to get the credentials, the
scholarships, the opportunities that
644
00:35:36,035 --> 00:35:40,815
are bestowed upon you, if you don't
really feel like living in those
645
00:35:40,825 --> 00:35:44,545
circumstances, let alone those conditions,
become what you really want to be?
646
00:35:45,295 --> 00:35:47,685
Then there's the whole
other incorrect identity.
647
00:35:48,645 --> 00:35:52,145
Do you really feel that you should
identify with not only the parents
648
00:35:52,145 --> 00:35:57,230
that you have growing up, but then to
take orders from somebody else, not
649
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,190
knowing what you're really supposed
to be thinking in the long run?
650
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,350
Then there's the whole observation
about the Church of Scientology.
651
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,040
Don't even get me started about discussing
maybe some of those things that normally
652
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,720
I don't normally discuss, but I'm going to
let you make your own decisions about what
653
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:18,820
Katherine had shared with us today about
whether you think that this is really a
654
00:36:18,820 --> 00:36:23,960
scary organization or not, but I think
there's one thing that universally comes
655
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:30,480
true when you listen to this story, and
it's that truth will always set us free.
656
00:36:31,850 --> 00:36:35,460
No matter what kind of truth it is,
no matter what kind of things that
657
00:36:35,460 --> 00:36:40,050
you might think are true, truth in
itself can always be very scary if
658
00:36:40,050 --> 00:36:44,380
we're very skeptical of what that truth
can actually create in our own lives.
659
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:48,990
I think that we have to really think
about the fact that truth, sometimes
660
00:36:48,990 --> 00:36:52,595
when it's really hard to face, It's
usually when we have to listen to it
661
00:36:52,595 --> 00:36:56,675
the most, because we know that we don't
want to hear the bad news that's ahead.
662
00:36:57,505 --> 00:37:01,775
Now, as a coach, and taking it from this
perspective as a coach, listening to this
663
00:37:01,785 --> 00:37:05,495
story today, there are a lot of different
things that I really have to say.
664
00:37:06,365 --> 00:37:09,815
First off, if you're seeking somebody
to really tell you what the truth
665
00:37:09,815 --> 00:37:12,565
is, don't let them lead you astray.
666
00:37:12,895 --> 00:37:17,055
Don't let them feed you negative
bullshit in order for you to feel
667
00:37:17,055 --> 00:37:20,805
like you are actually listening to
them, and I literally say negative
668
00:37:20,835 --> 00:37:24,885
bullshit because there are a lot of
people out there that will feed you
669
00:37:25,055 --> 00:37:29,225
a good mouthful of crap, and I know.
670
00:37:29,495 --> 00:37:31,955
There might be a lot of people
out there that might be saying,
671
00:37:31,955 --> 00:37:33,345
"Josh, you're full of crap.
672
00:37:33,345 --> 00:37:37,445
I don't know why I even listen to you.",
and that's a point well taken and I
673
00:37:37,445 --> 00:37:42,485
understand, but we can argue back and
forth, whether we want to be on social
674
00:37:42,485 --> 00:37:46,735
media or not, trying to figure out what
that best intention is that we're really
675
00:37:46,735 --> 00:37:52,320
trying to set, but I don't think that
we necessarily want to hear that B.
676
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:52,540
S.
677
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:56,190
from somebody else, if we
know that that truth is really
678
00:37:56,190 --> 00:37:57,740
what's going to set us free.
679
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,220
What if that's really what we're trying
to say and we're coming from a good place?
680
00:38:02,740 --> 00:38:06,600
That's when you have to do your homework
and I've been a continuous advocate for
681
00:38:06,660 --> 00:38:10,500
always saying that if you want to have
the best coach, if you really want to
682
00:38:10,510 --> 00:38:14,050
have somebody that really works with
you, and really wants to see your best
683
00:38:14,050 --> 00:38:18,205
interests in line with what you want
to achieve, they will take the time
684
00:38:18,205 --> 00:38:19,765
to listen to what you have to say.
685
00:38:20,095 --> 00:38:23,865
They will help you set the goals in which
you are going to set to move forward.
686
00:38:24,225 --> 00:38:29,005
They are going to help you become what
you want to become, but it doesn't
687
00:38:29,015 --> 00:38:30,835
happen with a snap of the fingers.
688
00:38:31,385 --> 00:38:35,015
It doesn't happen from someone else
barking orders at you, thinking that
689
00:38:35,015 --> 00:38:37,855
you're going to become something
that you never thought possible.
690
00:38:38,415 --> 00:38:43,265
It doesn't mean that you have to always
listen to those different opinions, even
691
00:38:43,265 --> 00:38:45,085
if they're coming from your own parents.
692
00:38:46,355 --> 00:38:47,305
Radical, right?
693
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,510
I know that many of us can listen to our
own parents, and maybe we have a lot of
694
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,800
great experiences with them being able
to share some of those best interests,
695
00:38:57,110 --> 00:39:01,660
some of those best hobbies, maybe some
of those best jobs that we've ever had,
696
00:39:02,370 --> 00:39:07,150
but not everybody gets that opportunity,
and I think that we have to live in a
697
00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:13,256
human body that has to experience some
of these disgusting things in our lives
698
00:39:13,746 --> 00:39:20,536
in order to understand what happens when
we go down the wrong path, but Katherine
699
00:39:20,556 --> 00:39:24,686
had a different story that she shared
today in which not only was her husband
700
00:39:25,466 --> 00:39:30,446
willing to take her into this life that
is not something that she needed to
701
00:39:30,446 --> 00:39:35,346
spend all her life in to make sure that
she realized that she doesn't have to
702
00:39:35,406 --> 00:39:39,576
always have those opportunities that the
Church of Scientology was giving her.
703
00:39:40,436 --> 00:39:42,696
She was able to make her own observations.
704
00:39:43,066 --> 00:39:46,036
She was able to make her own
conclusions based on all the things
705
00:39:46,116 --> 00:39:47,936
that were being told about her.
706
00:39:48,866 --> 00:39:53,501
She was able to do her own research and be
able to make her own conclusions and that
707
00:39:53,501 --> 00:39:57,601
today, ladies and gentlemen, if there's
anything that you need to take away from
708
00:39:57,601 --> 00:40:02,421
this is that we have to make our own
conclusions about what's ahead for us.
709
00:40:03,621 --> 00:40:08,431
Now, as a coach, I can give you
unlimited amount of tools, guidance,
710
00:40:08,441 --> 00:40:13,246
opinions, all kinds of things based
on my own earned life experiences,
711
00:40:13,646 --> 00:40:15,696
but I'm not the Church of Scientology.
712
00:40:16,086 --> 00:40:20,046
I am not one of these cults that keep
on saying that you need to do X, Y, and
713
00:40:20,046 --> 00:40:22,956
Z in order to attain life achievement.
714
00:40:23,356 --> 00:40:27,611
You don't need to always be skeptical of
everything that I have to say, because
715
00:40:27,611 --> 00:40:33,491
it comes from a place that you all know
is not only hardworking, but earnest in
716
00:40:33,491 --> 00:40:39,061
its own nature, and from all the things
that I have ever exposed myself to, not
717
00:40:39,061 --> 00:40:43,881
only outside of the business, let alone
what I will encounter in the future, even
718
00:40:43,881 --> 00:40:49,681
part of my business, I know that sometimes
understanding and learning from others
719
00:40:49,921 --> 00:40:56,261
can be the scariest thing that we will
ever do, which is why I want to spend a
720
00:40:56,261 --> 00:41:01,801
few moments telling you about why it's so
important to re-listen to this episode if
721
00:41:01,801 --> 00:41:03,581
there is something that you have missed.
722
00:41:05,291 --> 00:41:10,511
How much more abuse will you take
from something, that is so incredibly
723
00:41:10,511 --> 00:41:15,351
disgusting in nature, in your own life,
that you're going to continuously keep
724
00:41:15,381 --> 00:41:19,081
living in it, day after day after day?
725
00:41:20,321 --> 00:41:23,971
How many more times does it take
to go into that job and keep on
726
00:41:23,981 --> 00:41:28,291
listening to bullshit, if you're
not willing to change anything
727
00:41:28,291 --> 00:41:30,431
about what your life is all about?
728
00:41:31,341 --> 00:41:36,921
How many more times will it take for you
to sink into your subconscious that every
729
00:41:36,921 --> 00:41:40,561
time that you listen to any of those
people that tell you that you're not good
730
00:41:40,561 --> 00:41:45,981
enough, not strong enough, not forthright
enough, to understand or even retain the
731
00:41:45,981 --> 00:41:50,611
knowledge that you have or the ability to
create that best version of who you are.
732
00:41:51,491 --> 00:41:54,521
How many more times will it take
for you for that to sink in?
733
00:41:56,431 --> 00:41:58,881
If there's more than one person
in your life that's telling
734
00:41:58,881 --> 00:42:00,411
you that you are worth more.
735
00:42:01,006 --> 00:42:06,256
It's that you might be listening to all
those cues, all those opportunities, all
736
00:42:06,256 --> 00:42:11,336
those segments, but you're not listening
to what they're really trying to share.
737
00:42:13,346 --> 00:42:18,176
Freedom is the ultimate gift when
you're listening to that truth
738
00:42:18,396 --> 00:42:20,186
that will help you to set you free.
739
00:42:20,996 --> 00:42:22,126
Let me say that again.
740
00:42:22,826 --> 00:42:28,936
Freedom can be that ultimate gift that you
give to yourself after you listen to the
741
00:42:28,936 --> 00:42:35,796
truth that will set you free, and I think
all of us deserve to have that freedom in
742
00:42:35,796 --> 00:42:40,366
our lives, to be able to pursue whatever
opportunities for development there are,
743
00:42:40,781 --> 00:42:42,911
whether they're personal or professional.
744
00:42:44,421 --> 00:42:48,391
I have had numerous people come
through my business and have seen that
745
00:42:48,401 --> 00:42:54,601
work, by doing it for themselves, be
able to set them free for the vast
746
00:42:54,651 --> 00:42:59,911
opportunities that lie ahead for
them, but the work is not easy to do.
747
00:43:00,701 --> 00:43:05,451
The truth that we often have to listen
to in order to create that opportunity
748
00:43:05,451 --> 00:43:08,281
for ourselves is not easy to do.
749
00:43:09,131 --> 00:43:14,651
The things that we might be skeptical
about and what we need to work on is
750
00:43:14,651 --> 00:43:21,161
not easy to listen to, but if there's
anything that you have ever learned
751
00:43:21,341 --> 00:43:27,251
in this episode today, it's this: it
doesn't matter what you do as a kid.
752
00:43:27,901 --> 00:43:30,001
It doesn't matter what
you do as a teenager.
753
00:43:30,021 --> 00:43:32,291
It doesn't matter what
you do as a young adult.
754
00:43:32,321 --> 00:43:34,361
It doesn't matter what
you do as an adult now.
755
00:43:34,501 --> 00:43:37,941
It doesn't matter what it means
if you're older and you're still
756
00:43:37,941 --> 00:43:39,661
struggling with that identity.
757
00:43:41,471 --> 00:43:42,301
You do matter.
758
00:43:43,531 --> 00:43:45,141
Everything that you do matters.
759
00:43:45,721 --> 00:43:48,291
Everything that you'll create matters.
760
00:43:48,981 --> 00:43:54,521
Everything that you are involved with
as a human being matters, and it doesn't
761
00:43:54,521 --> 00:43:59,131
matter what anybody has ever said to you,
whether it's past, present, or future.
762
00:44:00,711 --> 00:44:03,781
You have your own opinion, and
you're entitled to form it.
763
00:44:05,831 --> 00:44:10,781
I don't know about you, but out of all
the episodes that I have ever done on
764
00:44:10,781 --> 00:44:15,161
this show, and you will yet do, this
one rubs me a little bit differently.
765
00:44:16,651 --> 00:44:20,361
Not only is it somebody that actually
took a stand for themselves and realized
766
00:44:20,361 --> 00:44:23,081
that this isn't something that they
wanted to live in for the rest of their
767
00:44:23,081 --> 00:44:26,591
lives, they decided to consciously change.
768
00:44:27,541 --> 00:44:32,471
They decided to listen to the other
truth that was out there, so I really
769
00:44:32,471 --> 00:44:36,621
have to ask you: are you willing to
listen to the truth that is out there?
770
00:44:37,741 --> 00:44:42,411
Are you really willing to take that
risk that maybe hearing it from
771
00:44:42,411 --> 00:44:48,641
more than one person can help you
set goal that you have into motion?
772
00:44:49,891 --> 00:44:54,201
To help you create that opportunity
that normally doesn't exist?
773
00:44:55,151 --> 00:44:59,786
Maybe even form an identity that maybe
you can have if you're just willing
774
00:44:59,786 --> 00:45:04,756
to invest in yourself just a little
bit more because you are worth it.
775
00:45:05,736 --> 00:45:08,996
I've said it time and time again I'm
saying it yet again on another episode
776
00:45:08,996 --> 00:45:13,376
that you're worth it, and I think that
Katherine has been worth it because of
777
00:45:13,376 --> 00:45:16,376
her ability to share this story with us.
778
00:45:17,906 --> 00:45:22,996
Don't waste this opportunity Don't be
stuck in a cult, whether it's your own
779
00:45:22,997 --> 00:45:27,066
cult that you created about your own
self image, or it's about something
780
00:45:27,066 --> 00:45:28,146
else that you've been thinking.
781
00:45:29,666 --> 00:45:31,716
You don't have to be skeptical anymore.
782
00:45:32,716 --> 00:45:37,466
You just have to embrace the freedom that
if you take the risk in order to listen
783
00:45:37,466 --> 00:45:41,956
to the truth that has been around you
all this time, whether it's for personal
784
00:45:41,956 --> 00:45:45,486
and professional reasons, or even for
your own business, for that matter,
785
00:45:46,556 --> 00:45:51,376
it will set you free, and you'll be a
much better person on the other side.
786
00:45:52,476 --> 00:45:58,396
That is no way, shape, or form a guarantee
that you'll be successful, but I think
787
00:45:58,396 --> 00:46:02,986
you'll be much more enriched by the fact
that you have listened to not only those
788
00:46:02,996 --> 00:46:08,646
voices, but you're not being swayed by
those negative ones at the same time.
789
00:46:10,356 --> 00:46:13,756
Thanks for listening to episode
number 86 of Speaking From the
790
00:46:13,756 --> 00:46:18,026
Heart, and I look forward to
hearing from your heart very soon.
791
00:46:18,701 --> 00:46:19,531
Outro: Thanks for listening.
792
00:46:19,741 --> 00:46:24,131
For more information about our podcast
and future shows, search for Speaking From
793
00:46:24,131 --> 00:46:28,671
The Heart to subscribe and be notified
wherever you listen to your podcasts.
794
00:46:29,041 --> 00:46:31,461
Visit us at www.
795
00:46:31,491 --> 00:46:31,831
yourspeakingvoice.
796
00:46:33,101 --> 00:46:36,801
biz for more information about
potential services that can help you
797
00:46:36,801 --> 00:46:39,571
create the best version of yourself.
798
00:46:39,791 --> 00:46:40,681
See you next time.
